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View Full Version : Splat It! - Permanency Support (Work ALWAYS in Progress)



Lonely Tylenol
2011-12-23, 07:22 AM
I'm sure nearly every single person here has encountered this problem at some point in time: Either a class, or a class feature, or an ability of some sort seems strong, or shows promise, until you remember one basic, fundamental fact of D&D: Unless it's core-based, it probably doesn't have support outside of the book it's featured in. With few exceptions, classes outside of the PHB don't receive much ACF or spell support, and even certain concepts go largely unexplored in future support.

In the first of what may (or may not) prove to be a promising Splat It! series, I explore one of these concepts: Permanency, a fifth-level spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. Permanency offers users the ability to make certain spell effects permanent, at the cost of a certain amount of XP (500 times the spell level, to be exact). Within the realm of a core game, the ability can be applied to a few different spells to do some neat tricks; however, within campaigns of the broader scope, or even campaigns with a different specific focus, the spell can't do that much.

I'd like to remedy that problem.

Included below are spells from more than a dozen different splatbooks, including the Player's Handbook II, the Complete series, and others (as appropriate). For the most part, I have covered all the 3.5 content available to me that isn't setting-specific, although I'd like to with a future update.

In the interests of making this list as comprehensive as possible, if you can think of a spell that should absolutely be on the Permanency list, but isn't, or have a compelling reason why a spell that is on the Permanency list shouldn't be, please include them in a post and I'll sort it out.

Without further ado, the revised Permanency list...

You can make the following spells permanent in regard to yourself.

{table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
Arcane Sensitivity | Shining South | 9th | 500 XP
Arcane Sight | Player's Handbook | 11th | 1,500 XP
Aura of Terror | Spell Compendium | 14th | 3,000 XP
Blinding Glory | Book of Exalted Deeds | 17th | 4,500 XP
Blindsight | Player's Guide to Faerun | 10th | 1,000 XP
Celestial Brilliance | Book of Exalted Deeds | 12th | 2,000 XP
Comprehend languages | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
Create Magic Tattoo | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
Darkvision | Player's Handbook | 10th | 1,000 XP
Dead End | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
Deeper Darkvision | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
Detect Aberration | Eberron Campaign Setting | 9th | 500 XP
Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
Detect Curse | Oriental Adventures | 11th | 1,500 XP
Detect Disease | Oriental Adventures | 9th | 500 XP
Detect Dragonblood | Dragon Magic | 9th | 500 XP
Detect Dragonmark | Magic of Eberron | 9th | 500 XP
Detect Ghosts | Ghostwalk | 9th | 500 XP
Detect Inarcanum | Magic of Inarcanum | 9th | 500 XP
Detect Magic | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
Detect Poison | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
Detect Secret Doors | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
Detect Taint | Heroes of Horror | 9th | 500 XP
Detect Thoughts | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
Detect Undead | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
Discern Shapechanger | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
Expose the Dead | Magic of Eberron | 10th | 1,000 XP
Find Traps | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
Hoard Gullet | Dragon Magic | 9th | 500 XP
Karmic Aura | Complete Mage | 9th | 500 XP
Low-Light Vision | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
Luminous Gaze | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
Necrotic Awareness | Libris Mortis | 9th | 500 XP
Read Magic | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
Reflective Disguise | Underdark | 10th | 1,000 XP
Scent | Complete Divine | 10th | 1,000 XP
Sense of the Dragon | Races of the Dragon | 11th | 1,500 XP
See invisibility | Player's Handbook | 10th | 1,000 XP
Spectral Hand | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
Suppress Glyph | Magic of Faerun | 15th | 3,000 XP
Tongues | Player's Handbook | 11th | 1,500 XP
Tremorsense | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
Undetectable Alignment | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP[/table]

In addition to personal use, permanency can be used to make the following spells permanent on yourself, another creature, or an object (as appropriate).

{table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
Air Breathing | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
Detect Animals or Plants | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
Detect Snares and Pits | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
Disguise Undead | Magic of Faerun | 10th | 1,000 XP
Endure Elements | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
Enlarge Person | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
Healthful Rest | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
Jagged Tooth | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
Magic Fang | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
Magic Fang, Greater | Player's Handbook | 11th | 1,500 XP
Misrepresent Alignment | Races of Eberron | 10th | 1,000 XP
One with the Land | Magic of Faerun | 10th | 1,000 XP
Reduce Person | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
Remove Scent | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
Resistance | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
Resist Planar Alignment | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
Sea Legs | Shining South | 9th | 500 XP
Sharptooth | Spell Compendium | 12th | 2,000
Snowshoes | Spell Compendium | 9th | 500 XP
Spawn Screen | Libris Mortis | 10th | 1,000 XP
Speak with Animals | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
Speak with Plants | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
Speechlink | Magic of Faerun | 12th | 2,000 XP
Telepathic Bond | Player's Handbook | 13th | 2,500 XP
Tojanida Sight | Stormwrack | 10th | 1,000 XP
Water Breathing | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP[/table]

Additionally, the following spells can be cast upon objects or areas only and rendered permanent.

{table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
Adamantine Weapon | Magic of Eberron | 11th | 1,500 XP
Alarm | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
Alarm, Greater | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
Align Weapon | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
Animate Objects | Player's Handbook | 14th | 3,000 XP
Attentive Alarm | Complete Mage | 10th | 1,000 XP
Billim's Bifrost Bridge | Dragonlance Campaign Setting | 11th | 1,500 XP
Bridge of Sound | Savage Species | 11th | 1,500 XP
Caustic Mire | Complete Mage | 12th | 2,000 XP
Caustic Smoke | Complete Mage | 11th | 1,500 XP
Climbing Tree | Complete Mage | 9th | 500 XP
Clothier's Closet | Magic of Eberron | 10th | 1,000 XP
Cloud Chariot | Oriental Adventures | 16th | 4,000 XP
Consecrate | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
Damning Darkness | Lords of Madness | 12th | 2,000 XP
Dancing Lights | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
Dark Way | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
Darsson's Chilling Chamber | Shining South | 10th | 1,000 XP
Darsson's Cooling Breeze | Shining South | 9th | 500 XP
Darsson's Fiery Furnace | Shining South | 10th | 1,000 XP
Desecrate | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
Ectoplasmic Web | Ghostwalk | 11th | 1,500 XP
Energized Shield | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
Energized Shield, Lesser | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
Fang Trap | Serpent Kingdoms | 12th | 2,000 XP
Fire Trap | Player's Handbook* | 12th | 2,000 XP
Fog Cloud | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
Force Chest | Spell Compendium | 12th | 2,000 XP
Force Ladder | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
Ghost Lantern | Complete Mage | 12th | 2,000 XP
Ghost Sound | Player's Handbook | 9th | 500 XP
Ghost Touch Armor | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
Ghoul Glyph | Libris Mortis | 10th | 1,000 XP
Ghoul Light | Libris Mortis | 9th | 500 XP
Glyph of Warding | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
Greenfire | Unapproachable East | 11th | 1,500 XP
Gust of Wind | Player's Handbook | 11th | 1,500 XP
Haboob | Sandstorm | 11th | 1,500 XP
Hallucinatory Terrain | Player's Handbook* | 12th | 2,000 XP
Hidden Ward | Magic of Eberron | 9th | 500 XP
Holy Sword | Player's Handbook* | 12th | 2,000 XP
Illusory Script | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
Invisibility | Player's Handbook | 10th | 1,000 XP
Keen Edge | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
Mageís Private Sanctum | Player's Handbook | 13th | 2,500 XP
Magic Aura | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
Magic Mouth | Player's Handbook | 10th | 1,000 XP
Magic Vestments | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
Magic Weapon | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
Magic Weapon, Greater | Player's Handbook* | 12th | 2,000 XP
Moon Path | Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting | 13th | 2,500 XP
Nightmare Terrain | Complete Mage | 12th | 2,000 XP
Obscure Object | Player's Handbook* | 10th | 1,000 XP
Path of Frost | Dragon Magic | 9th | 500 XP
Phantom Battle | Player's Handbook II | 12th | 2,000 XP
Phase Door | Player's Handbook | 15th | 3,500 XP
Prismatic Sphere | Player's Handbook | 17th | 4,500 XP
Prismatic Spray | Player's Handbook II | 11th | 1,500 XP
Prismatic Wall | Player's Handbook | 16th | 4,000 XP
Refusal | Spell Compendium | 13th | 2,500 XP
Resinous Tar | Complete Mage | 9th | 500 XP
Returning Weapon | Races of the Wild | 10th | 1,000 XP
Safe Clearing | Magic of Faerun | 11th | 1,500 XP
Scattering Trap | Player's Handbook II | 11th | 1,500 XP
Shrink Item | Player's Handbook | 11th | 1,500 XP
Snare | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
Solid Fog | Player's Handbook | 12th | 2,000 XP
Spikes | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
Stinking Cloud | Player's Handbook | 11th | 1,500 XP
Suspended Silence | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
Symbol of Death | Player's Handbook | 16th | 4,000 XP
Symbol of Fear | Player's Handbook | 14th | 3,000 XP
Symbol of Insanity | Player's Handbook | 16th | 4,000 XP
Symbol of Pain | Player's Handbook | 13th | 2,500 XP
Symbol of Persuasion | Player's Handbook | 14th | 3,000 XP
Symbol of Sleep | Player's Handbook | 16th | 4,000 XP
Symbol of Spell Loss | Spell Compendium | 13th | 2,500 XP
Symbol of Stunning | Player's Handbook | 15th | 3,500 XP
Symbol of Weakness | Player's Handbook | 15th | 3,500 XP
Telepathic Block | Book of Exalted Deeds | 13th | 2,500 XP
Teleportation Circle | Player's Handbook | 17th | 4,500 XP
Tenser's Floating Disk | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
Undead Bane Weapon | Spell Compendium | 12th | 2,000 XP
Unseen Crafter | Races of Eberron | 10th | 1,000 XP
Unseen Servant | Player's Handbook* | 9th | 500 XP
Utterdark | Lords of Madness | 17th | 4,500 XP
Vanishing Weapon | Book of Exalted Deeds | 13th | 2,500 XP
Wall of Chaos/Evil/Good/Law | Spell Compendium | 12th | 2,000 XP
Wall of Dispel Magic | Spell Compendium | 12th | 2,000 XP
Wall of Fire | Player's Handbook | 12th | 2,000 XP
Wall of Force | Player's Handbook | 13th | 2,500 XP
Wall of Gloom | Spell Compendium | 10th | 1,000 XP
Wall of Ice | Player's Handbook* | 12th | 2,000 XP
Wall of Magma | Sandstorm | 13th | 2,500 XP
Wall of Sand | Spell Compendium | 12th | 2,000 XP
Wall of Scales | Races of the Dragon | 12th | 2,000 XP
Wall of Water | Sandstorm | 12th | 2,000 XP
Weapon of Impact | Spell Compendium | 11th | 1,500 XP
Web | Player's Handbook | 10th | 1,000 XP
Wind Wall | Player's Handbook* | 11th | 1,500 XP
Zone of Natural Purity | Eberron Campaign Setting | 10th | 1,000 XP
Zone of Respite | Spell Compendium | 13th | 2,500 XP
Zone of Revelation | Spell Compendium | 13th | 2,500 XP[/table]

Notes on spells included in the Permanency list, in the order they were collected. (NOTE: In cases where a spell appeared in both the Spell Compendium and its original source in my book-diving, the Spell Compendium version was invariably used, because it was the second book I looked through. The exception to this is if I missed the spell the first time.)

Unless noted, a spell appeared on the Permanency list on 12-23-2011. This is to keep track of future updates.

Player's Handbook II
Scattering Trap - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area)
Prismatic Spray - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area)
Phantom Battle - 12th - 2,000 xp (on area)

Spell Compendium
Healthful Rest - 9th - 500 xp (on other)
Low-Light Vision - 9th - 500 xp (on self)
Luminous Gaze - 9th - 500 xp (on self)
Remove Scent - 9th - 500 xp (on self or others)
Resist Planar Alignment - 9th - 500 xp (on self or others)
Dead End - 9th - 500 xp (on self)
Alarm, Greater - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area)
Create Magic Tattoo - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
Discern Shapechanger - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self)
Force Ladder - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object)
Dark Way - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object)
Wall of Gloom - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object)
Avoid Planar Effects - 11th - 1,500 xp (on self or others; once per casting)
Suspended Silence - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object)
Deeper Darkvision - 11th - 1,500 xp (on self)
Tremorsense - 11th - 1,500 xp (on self)
Wall of Sand - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object)
Force Chest - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object)
Refusal - 13th - 2,500 xp (on area)
Symbol of Spell Loss - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object)
Zone of Respite - 13th - 2,500 xp (on area)
Zone of Revelation - 13th - 2,500 xp (on area)
Aura of Terror - 14th - 3,000 xp (on self)
Snowshoes - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Healthful Rest - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Ghost Touch Armor - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Energized Shield, Lesser - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Energized Shield - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Undead Bane Weapon - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Jagged Tooth - 11th - 1,500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Spikes - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Air Breathing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Weapon of Impact - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Wall of Chaos/Evil/Good/Law - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Force Chest - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Sharptooth - 12th - 2,000 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Wall of Dispel Magic - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)

Complete Mage
Attentive Alarm - Complete Mage - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Caustic Mire - Complete Mage - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Caustic Smoke - Complete Mage - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Climbing Tree - Complete Mage - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Ghost Lantern - Complete Mage - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Karmic Aura - 9th - 500 xp (on self)
Nightmare Terrain - Complete Mage - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Resinous Tar - Complete Mage - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)

Complete Divine
Scent - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self)

Book of Exalted Deeds
Telepathic Block - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object)

Dragonlance Campaign Setting
Billim's Bifrost Bridge - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object)

Dragon Magic
Detect Dragonblood - 9th - 500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)
Path of Frost - 9th - 500 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)
Hoard Gullet - 9th - 500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)

Ghostwalk
Detect Ghosts - 9th - 500 xp (on self)
Ectoplasmic Web - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object)

Heroes of Horror
Detect Taint - 9th - 500 xp (on self)

Libris Mortis
Necrotic Awareness - 9th - 500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)
Ghoul Light - 9th - 500 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)
Spawn Screen - 10th - 1,000 XP (on other) (12-25-2011)
Ghoul Glyph - 10th - 1,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)

Lords of Madness
Damning Darkness - 12th 2,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)
Utterdark - 17th - 4,500 XP (on area) (12-25-2011)

Magic of Inarcanum
Detect Inarcanum - 9th - 500 xp (on self)

Oriental Adventures
Cloud Chariot - 16th - 4,000 xp (on object)
Detect Curse - 11th - 1,500 xp (on self)
Detect Disease - 9th - 500 xp (on self)
Smoke Ladder - 9th - 500 xp (on self)

Races of the Dragon
Sense of the Dragon - 11th - 1,500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)
Wall of Scales - 12th - 2,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)

Races of the Wild
Returning Weapon - 10th - 1,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)

Sandstorm
Haboob - Sandstorm - 11th - 1,500 XP (on object) (12-24-2011)
Wall of Magma - Sandstorm - 13th - 2,500 XP (on object) (12-24-2011)
Wall of Water - Sandstorm - 12th - 2,000 XP (on object) (12-24-2011)

Savage Species
Bridge of Sound - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object)

Stormwrack
Tojanida Sight - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other)

Eberron Campaign Setting
Detect Aberration - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
Zone of Natural Purity - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)

Magic of Eberron
Adamantine Weapon - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Hidden Ward - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Detect Dragonmark - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
Clothier's Closet - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Expose the Dead - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)

Races of Eberron
Misrepresent Alignment - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self, others, or object) (12-24-2011)
Unseen Crafter - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
Moon Path - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)

Player's Guide to Faerun (from the "comprehensive spell lists"):

Player's Guide to Faerun
Blindsight - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)

Magic of Faerun
Speechlink - 12th - 2,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)
Suppress Glyph - 15th - 3,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
Safe Clearing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
One with the Land - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)
Disguise Undead - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)

Underdark
Reflective Disguise - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)

Serpent Kingdoms
Fang Trap - 12th - 2,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)

Shining South
Arcane Sensitivity - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
Darsson's Chilling Chamber - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
Darsson's Cooling Breeze - 9th - 500 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
Darsson's Fiery Furnace - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
Sea Legs - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)

Unapproachable East
Greenfire - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)

Player's Handbook
Magic Aura - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Magic Weapon - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Obscure Object - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Undetectable Alignment - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Unseen Servant - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Detect Thoughts - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Speak with Animals - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Detect Poison - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Detect Undead - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Endure Elements - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Align Weapon - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Consecrate - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
Desecrate - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
Find Traps - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Glyph of Warding - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Wind Wall - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
Magic Weapon, Greater - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Detect Animals or Plants - 9th - 500 xp (on others) (12-25-2011)
Detect Snares and Pits - 9th - 500 xp (on others) (12-25-2011)
Speak with Plants - 11th - 1,500 xp (on others) (12-25-2011)
Holy Sword - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Snare - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Detect Secret Doors - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Tenser's Floating Disk - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Fog Cloud - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Spectral Hand - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Illusory Script - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Keen Edge - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Water Breathing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Fire Trap - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Hallucinatory Terrain - 12th - 2,000 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
Wall of Ice - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Magic Vestments - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-27-2011)

Book of Exalted Deeds
Blinding Glory - 17th - 4,500 xp (on self) (01-02-2012)
Celestial Brilliance - 12th - 2,000 xp (on self) (01-02-2012)
Vanishing Weapon - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object) (01-02-2012)

Sourcebooks used:
Player's Handbook II
Spell Compendium
Book of Exalted Deeds
Book of Vile Darkness
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Champion
Complete Mage
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Warrior
Dragonlance Campaign Setting
Frostburn
Ghostwalk
Heroes of Battle
Heroes of Horror
Libris Mortis
Oriental Adventures
Races of Destiny
Races of Stone
Races of the Dragon
Races of the Wild
Rokugan Campaign Setting
Sandstorm
Stormwrack
Eberron Campaign Setting
Magic of Eberron
Races of Eberron
Champions of Ruin
Champions of Valor

Updates:
- 12-24-2011: Introduced splat support for Eberron and Forgotten Realms campaign settings; introduced support for spells from the Complete Mage, Sandstorm, and Spell Compendium books (revisions) thanks to Dracomortis
- 12-25-2011: Introduced enhanced support for Player's Handbook; revised criteria for spells' inclusion onto the Permanency list (to include certain weapon and armor enhancements); revision of the Spell Compendium list to accommodate the new criteria

To be introduced in future updates:
- Cleaner formatting
- Page numbers, for reference

"Wouldn't it be nice" list:
- "Errata" text for each individual spell (specifying restrictions and what-have-you; this may be an impossibly, or at least unnecessarily, large task)
- Original sources for each spell, as opposed to Spell Compendium or other compilations the spells arrive in

Happy hunting, Giants!

eftexar
2011-12-23, 11:39 AM
This is nice. There has never been enough support for permanency. Actually, I hadn't noticed it though until you pointed it out. I think I quit bothering with the spell a while ago because I didn't think it couldn't do enough.
I await updates.

Dracomortis
2011-12-24, 08:42 PM
I propose the following additions, castable upon an object or an area as appropriate. (Also, you mention greater alarm in your spoiler as one of the spells used, but it isn't on any of the tables.)

{table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
Attentive Alarm | Complete Mage | 10th | 1,000 XP
Caustic Mire | Complete Mage | 12th | 2,000 XP
Caustic Smoke | Complete Mage | 11th | 1,500 XP
Choking Cobwebs | Complete Mage | 15th | 3,500 XP
Climbing Tree | Complete Mage | 9th | 500 XP
Ghost Lantern | Complete Mage | 12th | 2,000 XP
Haboob | Sandstorm | 11th | 1,500 XP
Nightmare Terrain | Complete Mage | 12th | 2,000 XP
Resinous Tar | Complete Mage | 9th | 500 XP
Wall of Ice | Player's Handbook | 12th | 2,000 XP
Wall of Magma | Sandstorm | 13th | 2,500 XP
Wall of Water | Sandstorm | 12th | 2,000 XP
[/table]

Lonely Tylenol
2011-12-24, 09:08 PM
Choking Cobwebs has some fairly insidious implications if you choose to create large quantities of Permanent Choking Cobwebs (like doubling them up for Con damage to death).

Wall of Magma and Wall of Water are already Permanency-able, but need to be put on the list.

I agree with the rest, but I must make special note--in my book-diving, I did find a Wall of X or X Cloud spell that had some negative effect that lasted "for the spell's duration" when contacted, or something to the effect--meaning that both the spell was clearly not meant to be Permanent, and that there are serious implications if it does. Naturally, I passed it over, but in the thousands of spells (OK, I haven't counted, but it feels like thousands) in the lists and entries that I have looked up, I've forgotten what it was.

Just be on the lookout. :)

Updating the spell lists with your revisions now. I have also completed my Eberron additions, and am finishing the Forgotten Realms additions. I intend to include Kingdoms of Kalamar and (what I can of) Dragonlance at a later date.

EDIT: You edited with Wall of Ice from the Player's Handbook. This brings up a point I had been meaning to ask:

Should I comb over the Player's Handbook and look for spells not previously allowed by Permanency to include into the list?

I can see valid arguments being raised either way. On the one hand, there are spells that are clearly within the scope of Permanency's power as written from its existing spell list; casting Permanency on an object affected by Light, for example, is an innocuous use of Permanency. On the other hand, these spells were not included in the original spell list for Permanency, even though they were published concurrently, which suggests that it was beyond the stated intentions of these spells to be included in Permanency's writing as-is.

This list concerns itself primarily with updating Permanency for splatbook support--where the publishers never really had a say--but I can really go either way.

What say you, Playground?

Dracomortis
2011-12-24, 09:30 PM
I would be in favor of adding additional spells from the Player's Handbook, if there's no obvious way to abuse a permanent version of it.

Lonely Tylenol
2011-12-24, 09:50 PM
I would be in favor of adding additional spells from the Player's Handbook, if there's no obvious way to abuse a permanent version of it.

That works for me. I'll include an asterisk (*) next to spells that are being included in the Player's Handbook that are not on the existing Permanency list. This will immediately follow my wrap-up of Forgotten Realms and will be included in the update later today. :smallsmile:

EDIT:

What are your thoughts on including spells which emulate magical weapon properties, such as the second-level Evocation spell Burning Sword, which gives a weapon the Flaming Burst property? I ran into a number of these (not the least of which are Weapon of Impact, Sonic Weapon and Weapon of Energy, all of the Spell Compendium, and Align Weapon, Keen Edge, Magic Weapon and Magic Weapon, Greater from the Player's Handbook). I mean, theoretically they make it possible to have epic-level weapons with these properties earlier than usual (by having a weapon with pre-epic properties and then adding Permanency to them with the above spells), but it also comes with a hefty XP cost and a limited scope (assuming we skip the Artificer infusions).

Basically, this would be extending the precedent set by Magic Fang and Magic Fang, Greater to weapons.

Dracomortis
2011-12-24, 11:22 PM
It's probably best to (dis)allow them on a case-by-case basis. Align weapon, keen edge, (greater) magic weapon, and weapon of impact seem fine, since they can't stack with similar effects. Weapon of energy might be too much since it explicitly *can* stack with the emulated weapon property and could arguably stack with different damage types of itself (i.e. have the acid, cold, electricity, and fire version of weapon of energy on the same weapon at the same time). Sonic weapon is anyone's guess: while all of the other spells explicitly state whether they do or do not stack with the emulated weapon ability, sonic weapon doesn't. I'd probably leave it out just for being ambiguous.

Viktyr Gehrig
2011-12-24, 11:26 PM
I'd say that any 24 hour duration buff spell without an expensive M component should be included-- you're essentially trading XP to free up a spell slot. Endure elements and mind blank come to mind.

Totally house rules territory, but have you considered removing permanency from the spell list as simply allowing anyone who can cast an appropriate spell to make it permanent by spending XP? One of my pet peeves.

Lonely Tylenol
2011-12-24, 11:55 PM
Updated with the following spells:

Spell Compendium
Create Magic Tattoo - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)

Complete Mage
Attentive Alarm - Complete Mage - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Caustic Mire - Complete Mage - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Caustic Smoke - Complete Mage - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Climbing Tree - Complete Mage - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Ghost Lantern - Complete Mage - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Nightmare Terrain - Complete Mage - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Resinous Tar - Complete Mage - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)

Sandstorm
Haboob - Sandstorm - 11th - 1,500 XP (on object) (12-24-2011)
Wall of Magma - Sandstorm - 13th - 2,500 XP (on object) (12-24-2011)
Wall of Water - Sandstorm - 12th - 2,000 XP (on object) (12-24-2011)

Eberron Campaign Setting
Detect Aberration - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
Zone of Natural Purity - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)

Magic of Eberron
Adamantine Weapon - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Hidden Ward - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Detect Dragonmark - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
Clothier's Closet - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)
Expose the Dead - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)

Races of Eberron
Misrepresent Alignment - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self, others, or object) (12-24-2011)
Unseen Crafter - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
Moon Path - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object) (12-24-2011)

Player's Guide to Faerun (from the "comprehensive spell lists"):

Player's Guide to Faerun
Blindsight - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)

Magic of Faerun
Speechlink - 12th - 2,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)
Suppress Glyph - 15th - 3,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
Safe Clearing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
One with the Land - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)
Disguise Undead - 10th - 1,000 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)

Underdark
Reflective Disguise - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)

Serpent Kingdoms
Fang Trap - 12th - 2,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)

Shining South
Arcane Sensitivity - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-24-2011)
Darsson's Chilling Chamber - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
Darsson's Cooling Breeze - 9th - 500 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
Darsson's Fiery Furnace - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)
Sea Legs - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-24-2011)

Unapproachable East
Greenfire - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area) (12-24-2011)


It's probably best to (dis)allow them on a case-by-case basis. Align weapon, keen edge, (greater) magic weapon, and weapon of impact seem fine, since they can't stack with similar effects. Weapon of energy might be too much since it explicitly *can* stack with the emulated weapon property and could arguably stack with different damage types of itself (i.e. have the acid, cold, electricity, and fire version of weapon of energy on the same weapon at the same time). Sonic weapon is anyone's guess: while all of the other spells explicitly state whether they do or do not stack with the emulated weapon ability, sonic weapon doesn't. I'd probably leave it out just for being ambiguous.

I think that's what I'll end up doing. I just wanted to make sure that it would be no great sin to do so on a case-by-case basis, or whether it should be disallowed by precedent.


I'd say that any 24 hour duration buff spell without an expensive M component should be included-- you're essentially trading XP to free up a spell slot. Endure elements and mind blank come to mind.

On a case-by-case basis. I am thinking of doing this for Endure Elements and Undetectable Alignment. I want to say Mind Blank would be too powerful, but we're talking about a 16th-level/4,000 xp requirement... Then again, it does free up an 8th-level spell.

I don't know. I would have to think about that. In all likelihood, it will happen on a case-by-case basis.

Input on this matter would be appreciated, though. :smallsmile:


Totally house rules territory, but have you considered removing permanency from the spell list as simply allowing anyone who can cast an appropriate spell to make it permanent by spending XP? One of my pet peeves.

Nope. The two rounds casting time of Permanency means everything in this regard, especially when you're talking about spells like the Walls and the Clouds, that have practical battleground implications that happen in real-time.

Viktyr Gehrig
2011-12-25, 12:00 AM
Nope. The two rounds casting time of Permanency means everything in this regard, especially when you're talking about spells like the Walls and the Clouds, that have practical battleground implications that happen in real-time.

Never noticed that. Build the extended casting time into the permanent casting option? I've never even heard of someone trying to cast permanency in combat.

Lonely Tylenol
2011-12-25, 12:25 AM
Never noticed that. Build the extended casting time into the permanent casting option? I've never even heard of someone trying to cast permanency in combat.

I think that has something to do with the two rounds' casting time. :smallwink:

Adding two rounds to the casting time is acceptable, I guess, but frankly I'd rather keep it as a spell (to force Wizards to have to take the option :smallbiggrin:). You could make it something Sorcerers just do, though.

To answer your question from before about spells with a 24h casting duration: It will be done on a case-by-case basis, but it's worth noting that there are some spells that get a little stupid when Permanency is applied to them, all of which have 24h durations and no expensive material components (all from the Spell Compendium):
Anticipate Teleportation (technically this doesn't matter to anyone but the stingier optimizers, but the last thing I want to do is make Rocket Tag even stupider)
Delay Disease (indefinitely)
Energy Immunity (permanency all energy types for total immunity)
General of Undeath (permanently increasing the HD cap of undead you can control by an amount equal to caster level... Innocuous in most circumstances, but cheesed out when combined with everything else, utterly deserving of the 8th-level slot)
Incorporeal Enhancement (see General of Undeath, but I'm on the fence about this one)
Resistance, Superior (+6 permanent bonus to all saves)
Undead Lieutenant (OK, I take it back. General of Undeath is piddling compared to this. Create multiple Permanent Undead Lieutenants for a NI control undead cap)

However, I have decided to allow the following spells as a consequence of this review (all, also, from the Spell Compendium):
Force Chest (technically 24h/level, but still)
Healthful Rest

OK. On to PHB!

Viktyr Gehrig
2011-12-25, 01:19 AM
My issue isn't really with Sorcerers, but for all of the casters that don't have it on their class spell lists-- which is, to say, all of them except Archivists, Chameleons, and Clerics with the Time Domain.

Lonely Tylenol
2011-12-25, 01:46 AM
My issue isn't really with Sorcerers, but for all of the casters that don't have it on their class spell lists-- which is, to say, all of them except Archivists, Chameleons, and Clerics with the Time Domain.

Ah.

If you want to houserule it in for this purpose, I see no reason not to. I don't think I would, but it's a perfectly valid reason to.

Daftendirekt
2011-12-25, 11:36 AM
Just thought I'd point out, you should fix the row for Disguise Undead. Didn't enter the source, so MCL is in source and xp cost is in MCL.

Zeta Kai
2011-12-25, 03:26 PM
Naturally, I passed it over, but in the thousands of spells (OK, I haven't counted, but it feels like thousands) in the lists and entries that I have looked up, I've forgotten what it was.

According to this list (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/spells), which only counts the spells for the PHB & the Spell Compendium, there are 1,607 spells. From just those two books. Of course, those are the two books with the most spells, but still. Every splatbook added at least a dozen new spells, with rare exception, so that list could be much, much higher. For instance, the ELH added the non-epic spell genesis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm) to the SRD. And here are 11 more spells (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineMinionsDomainsSpells.htm) that ended up in the SRD, from god knows where (Deities & Demigods? I dunno, whatever). So that at least 1,618 to look over. Good luck.

Lonely Tylenol
2011-12-25, 06:13 PM
Just thought I'd point out, you should fix the row for Disguise Undead. Didn't enter the source, so MCL is in source and xp cost is in MCL.

Thanks. I fixed it on my revision last night (to be posted today), but I haven't updated it yet.


According to this list (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/spells), which only counts the spells for the PHB & the Spell Compendium, there are 1,607 spells. From just those two books. Of course, those are the two books with the most spells, but still. Every splatbook added at least a dozen new spells, with rare exception, so that list could be much, much higher. For instance, the ELH added the non-epic spell genesis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/genesis.htm) to the SRD. And here are 11 more spells (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineMinionsDomainsSpells.htm) that ended up in the SRD, from god knows where (Deities & Demigods? I dunno, whatever). So that at least 1,618 to look over. Good luck.

:smalleek:

Zeta Kai
2011-12-25, 08:18 PM
:smalleek:

Calm down. About 605 of those are from the PHB, which has presumably been covered by the original designers (in theory). That leaves a little over a thousand spells from the Spell Compendium to look over, which cuts things down considerably. The real work will be to track down all of the spells from various splatbooks, which are myriad, & organized in vastly different manners.

Luckily, in most cases the spells will be grouped together for easy referencing. I just wish for your sake that there existed some central list of every spell ever published by WotC. From their perspective, they consider the SpC to be the omega to the PHB's alpha.

Lonely Tylenol
2011-12-25, 08:32 PM
Updated with the following spells:
Player's Handbook
Magic Aura - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Magic Weapon - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Obscure Object - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Undetectable Alignment - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Unseen Servant - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Detect Thoughts - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Speak with Animals - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Detect Poison - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Detect Undead - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Endure Elements - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Align Weapon - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Consecrate - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
Desecrate - 10th - 1,000 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
Find Traps - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Glyph of Warding - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Wind Wall - 11th - 1,500 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
Magic Weapon, Greater - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Detect Animals or Plants - 9th - 500 xp (on others) (12-25-2011)
Detect Snares and Pits - 9th - 500 xp (on others) (12-25-2011)
Speak with Plants - 11th - 1,500 xp (on others) (12-25-2011)
Holy Sword - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Snare - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Detect Secret Doors - 9th - 500 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Tenser's Floating Disk - 9th - 500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Fog Cloud - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Spectral Hand - 10th - 1,000 xp (on self) (12-25-2011)
Illusory Script - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Keen Edge - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Water Breathing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on other) (12-25-201)
Fire Trap - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Hallucinatory Terrain - 12th - 2,000 xp (on area) (12-25-2011)
Wall of Ice - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)

Spell Compendium
Snowshoes - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Healthful Rest - 9th - 500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Ghost Touch Armor - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Energized Shield, Lesser - 10th - 1,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Energized Shield - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Undead Bane Weapon - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Jagged Tooth - 11th - 1,500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Spikes - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Air Breathing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Weapon of Impact - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Wall of Chaos/Evil/Good/Law - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Force Chest - 12th - 2,000 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)
Sharptooth - 12th - 2,000 xp (on other) (12-25-2011)
Wall of Dispel Magic - 13th - 2,500 xp (on object) (12-25-2011)

I have elected not to include support for the Kingdoms of Kalamar campaign setting, which is exclusively 3.0, and the Dragonlance Campaign Setting, for which I only have the Dragonlance Campaign Setting book (and no knowledge of other support), which I have already completed.

For all intents and purposes, this completes the list unless people give me new ideas for spells or arguments to have existing ones taken down (I'm expecting certain Wall of spells and weapon enhancement spells to be points of contention, as well as requests for the inclusion of more Cloud/Fog spells).


Calm down. About 605 of those are from the PHB, which has presumably been covered by the original designers (in theory). That leaves a little over a thousand spells from the Spell Compendium to look over, which cuts things down considerably. The real work will be to track down all of the spells from various splatbooks, which are myriad, & organized in vastly different manners.

Luckily, in most cases the spells will be grouped together for easy referencing. I just wish for your sake that there existed some central list of every spell ever published by WotC. From their perspective, they consider the SpC to be the omega to the PHB's alpha.

What concerns me about that was this:


To be introduced in future updates:
- Page numbers, for reference

"Wouldn't it be nice" list:
- "Errata" text for each individual spell (specifying restrictions and what-have-you; this may be an impossibly, or at least unnecessarily, large task)
- Original sources for each spell, as opposed to Spell Compendium or other compilations the spells arrive in

The list now includes 157 spells, most of which need errata text (to the effect of "this spell can be made permanent", and clauses for what happens if certain spells are counteracted, like Consecrate/Desecrate), page numbers, and (if I'm feeling particularly brave) original sources. Certainly a daunting task!

I would like to see a universal database for spells, not unlike the one for feats. That way I have something to at least make page numbers and original sources easier for me.

Dracomortis
2011-12-25, 10:08 PM
I have a few more spells for your consideration. I've included the page number on which each spell appears, and the spoiler contains proposed "errata" to make the spells play nice with permanency.

Self
{table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
Detect Dragonblood | Dragon Magic pg. 65 | 9th | 500 XP
Ectoplasmic Feedback | Libris Mortis pg. 64 | 11th | 1,500 XP
Hoard Gullet | Dragon Magic pg. 68 | 9th | 500 XP
Necrotic Awareness | Libris Mortis pg. 67 | 9th | 500 XP
Sense of the Dragon* | Races of the Dragon pg. 117 | 11th | 1,500 XP[/table]
*Sense of the dragon can already be made permanent as per its text in Races of the Dragon, it simply needs to be added to the list.

Self, Another Creature, or Object
{table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
Returning Weapon | Races of the Wild pg. 175 | 10th | 1,000 XP
Spawn Screen | Libris Mortis pg. 71 | 10th | 1,000 XP[/table]

Area or Object
{table=head] Spell | Sourcebook | Minimum Caster Level | XP Cost
Damning Darkness | Lords of Madness pg. 210 | 12th | 2,000 XP
Ghoul Glyph | Libris Mortis pg. 66 | 10th | 1,000 XP
Path of Frost | Dragon Magic pg. 71 | 9th | 500 XP
Utterdark | Lords of Madness pg. 213 | 17th | 4,500 XP
Wall of Scales | Races of the Dragon pg. 118 | 12th | 2,000 XP[/table]

Errata:
Ghoul Glyph: A permanent ghoul glyph that is disabled or triggered becomes inactive for 10 minutes, after which it can be triggered again as normal.

Lonely Tylenol
2011-12-25, 11:38 PM
I agree to all the above except for Ectoplasmic Feedback, which provides a qualitative difference in access to combat-related abilities of the target. This sets it aside from enhancements such as Magic Fang, Girallon's Blessing and Sharptooth, which are quantitative, and Undead Bane Weapon, Energized Shield and Ghost Touch Armor (which affect equipment). It's for this same reason that I will not add spells like Mage Armor to the list, since Mage Armor basically gives the subject an armor score, as opposed to an enhancement bonus to existing armor.

Affecting the subject vs. affecting the object is essentially the only difference between Bless and Magic Weapon, which makes it another point of distinction. (Magic Fang, which set the precedent that Magic Weapon is allowed on, blurs this line, but it's important to note that Magic Fang gives an enhancement bonus to a natural weapon; it does not grant the user attacks with a natural weapon, nor does it make a subject proficient in a natural weapon if they are not already.)

I will put these up now.

(I will not add the page numbers or errata at this time, for the sake of keeping a consistent formatting at this time, but I will store it away for when I undertake the project of page numbering for the whole list, probably sometime this week.)

Many thanks! :smallsmile:

EDIT: I just noticed upon closer inspection that Girallon's Blessing produces a qualitative difference as well as a qualitative one (in addition to the additional set of arms, the subject gains the ability to make four claw attacks). This is a contradiction both of the reasoning for the rule mentioned above, as well as of my exclusion of Claws of the Bear, of the Druid spell list (Spell Compendium). Thoughts on this? Should it stay or should it go?

Lonely Tylenol
2011-12-26, 12:13 AM
Updated with the following spells:

Dragon Magic
Detect Dragonblood - 9th - 500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)
Path of Frost - 9th - 500 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)
Hoard Gullet - 9th - 500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)

Libris Mortis
Necrotic Awareness - 9th - 500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)
Ghoul Light - 9th - 500 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)
Spawn Screen - 10th - 1,000 XP (on other) (12-25-2011)
Ghoul Glyph - 10th - 1,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)

Lords of Madness
Damning Darkness - 12th 2,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)
Utterdark - 17th - 4,500 XP (on area) (12-25-2011)

Races of the Dragon
Sense of the Dragon - 11th - 1,500 XP (on self) (12-25-2011)
Wall of Scales - 12th - 2,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)

Races of the Wild
Returning Weapon - 10th - 1,000 XP (on object) (12-25-2011)

Currently up for discussion:
Allow or forbid Girallon's Blessing/Claws of the Bear/Ectoplasmic Feedback and related effects which provide a qualitative difference on the subject?

AugustNights
2011-12-26, 11:25 AM
For what it's worth, I toss my vote in with refraining from adding qualitative spells onto the permanency list.
Seems to open up too many doors.

Also, the dispellability of permanency would be very devastating to a character that so relied on the qualitative difference. It would be a bit of a trap in that.

Just my thoughts.
Also, subscribing to this thread.

Lonely Tylenol
2011-12-27, 05:28 PM
Updated with the following spells/changes:

ADDED:
Player's Handbook
Magic Vestments - 11th - 1,500 xp (on object)

REMOVED:
Spell Compendium
Girallon's Blessing - 11th - 1,500 xp (on self)


For what it's worth, I toss my vote in with refraining from adding qualitative spells onto the permanency list.
Seems to open up too many doors.

Also, the dispellability of permanency would be very devastating to a character that so relied on the qualitative difference. It would be a bit of a trap in that.

Just my thoughts.
Also, subscribing to this thread.

I agree.

Removed Girallon's Blessing and added Magic Vestments (which I had forgotten from earlier).

Lix Lorn
2011-12-28, 11:26 AM
I dislike that permanent spells are dispellable...

Also, will you throw things at me for begging for the BoEF?

killem2
2011-12-29, 06:29 PM
Just curious, for the spell Animate Weapon, if you made it permanent, if you leave the 30 feet range, can it be animated again and is it permanent? or is the spell undone if you go out of range?

Also, what are your thoughts on things that increase abilities, skills, or attack bonuses, ect. Like True strike, Owl's Wisdom, and so on? I get its asking alot, but surely there can be a fair answer? It may be a long wait for most characters as it would be most balance at higher end levels, almost epic levels.




The next suggestion I have is, Iron Body, the protection from X series, and maybe prying eyes, and the bigby's series.

I'm not exactly sure the formula that is used for this spell.

Veklim
2011-12-29, 10:37 PM
That works for me. I'll include an asterisk (*) next to spells that are being included in the Player's Handbook that are not on the existing Permanency list.

You might wanna state that in your initial thread. Nice work otherwise, will ping you if I find anything not here already. Personally been houseruling on the spot for them for years, permanency was never supported enough to begin with, but the fact that they failed to mention it retrospectively in further supplements (i.e. This spell may be affected by the spell Permanency) leads me to wonder if it was a spell deliberately gossed over?

Lonely Tylenol
2011-12-30, 12:24 AM
I dislike that permanent spells are dispellable...

There's always a risk.

This is, of course, easily countered by simply not making your highest-level spell a Permanent one (so that the temporary spells are targeted first), but making sure the Permanent spells are a high enough caster level to survive most dispel checks regardless.


Also, will you throw things at me for begging for the BoEF?

Shouldn't you consult a doctor if most of those spells last too long, though? :smallwink:


Just curious, for the spell Animate Weapon, if you made it permanent, if you leave the 30 feet range, can it be animated again and is it permanent? or is the spell undone if you go out of range?

(EDIT: Upon review, I'm not finding any mention of objects animated by the Animate Objects spell having an effective maximum range, only of the spell itself having a maximum range upon casting. As far as I can tell, animated objects can be miles away from the caster who animated them; they just need to be within range of the caster when he casts the spell to animate them.)

This same risk is run for Floating Disk, which is on the Permanency list (but is ultimately not worth it, as any Flight, teleportation-like ability from Dimension Door up, or any method of giving yourself a land movement speed above the Floating Disk runs the risk of cancelling it; I may remove it yet).


Also, what are your thoughts on things that increase abilities, skills, or attack bonuses, ect. Like True strike, Owl's Wisdom, and so on? I get its asking alot, but surely there can be a fair answer? It may be a long wait for most characters as it would be most balance at higher end levels, almost epic levels.

My opinion on things such as True Strike and especially the ability enhancement spells was summarized quite effectively earlier in this thread:


I agree to all the above except for Ectoplasmic Feedback, which provides a qualitative difference in access to combat-related abilities of the target. This sets it aside from enhancements such as Magic Fang, Girallon's Blessing and Sharptooth, which are quantitative, and Undead Bane Weapon, Energized Shield and Ghost Touch Armor (which affect equipment). It's for this same reason that I will not add spells like Mage Armor to the list, since Mage Armor basically gives the subject an armor score, as opposed to an enhancement bonus to existing armor.

Affecting the subject vs. affecting the object is essentially the only difference between Bless and Magic Weapon, which makes it another point of distinction. (Magic Fang, which set the precedent that Magic Weapon is allowed on, blurs this line, but it's important to note that Magic Fang gives an enhancement bonus to a natural weapon; it does not grant the user attacks with a natural weapon, nor does it make a subject proficient in a natural weapon if they are not already.)

Basically, the ability enhancers provide an effect that your character did not have before (an enhancement bonus to an existing score), and affect the player, not a particular item; thus, they fall solidly under the criteria of things such as Bless and Ectoplasmic Feedback. The ability enhancers are actually precisely the precedent that I was trying to avoid, and they are the reason I ended up taking Girallon's Blessing off the Permanency list (as it provides you access to natural attacks you are not assumed to have prior to its casting).

Permanent True Strike is never balanced. It has a standard action casting time and a one-use duration for a reason: the poor action economy and limited payoff are what deter spamming of this ability during every combat. If you really want those types of spell uses in your game, Persistent True Strike is a seventh-level spell, and Persistent Owl's Wisdom (and variants) are eighth-level spells, assuming no metamagic mitigators (such as Metamagic School Focus, Arcane Thesis, Incantatrix's Easy Metamagic ability, Divine Metamagic, or anything else of the sort), and are entirely within the scope of the rules to use. It's worth noting that Persistent True Strike is a useless six-level jump, however, as it will always only affect "your next single attack roll", and Persistent animal ability enhancers would come at level 15, when you're assumed to have access to +6 items that offer enhancement bonuses (which don't stack), making it only ever useful for secondary (and tertiary) enhancements.


The next suggestion I have is, Iron Body, the protection from X series, and maybe prying eyes, and the bigby's series.

Iron Body provides a qualitative difference (many, in fact). So do the Protection from X spells.

Prying Eyes is not broken from a game balance perspective, but could not be Permanencied because of a number of inherent contradictions within the mechanics of Prying Eyes that make it incompatible (the proximity rule, which it shares with Floating Disk, is one; the fact that the eyes are destructible, which it shares with Spectral Hand; and the fact that the eyes are single-use, which it shares with True Strike, and disappear after relaying information). Note that the first two issues individually haven't stopped a spell from being made Permanent as per this list (and the first never stopped Dancing Lights from appearing on the core list); the third, however, is a deal-breaker, as you're basically making a single-use item Permanent... Until discharged.

Arcane Eye has a considerably better shot at being made Permanent, since it is not affected by any of the above problems, but see below.

The only issue I have with Hand and Fist spells being made permanent is that there is no limit to the number of Hands you could theoretically Permanency. If you wanted, you could create an arbitrarily high number of Hands with insidious consequences.

As a general rule, the precedent for spells with stacking effects, and spells with no explicitly worded limit on quantity, can be inferred from this post, made earlier in the thread:


Choking Cobwebs has some fairly insidious implications if you choose to create large quantities of Permanent Choking Cobwebs (like doubling them up for Con damage to death).

EDIT: That said, the Hand and Fist spells may follow the precedent set by Animate Objects. I'll look into it.


I'm not exactly sure the formula that is used for this spell.

I haven't written a comprehensive criteria for Permanency, and since Wizards never wrote one, it can be assumed that no such list exists; however, there are a few criteria that I've established through this list that one can safely use to rule out spells that are incompatible with the list:

Spells that affect yourself, another creature, an object, or an area
MUST: Contain wording that explicitly prevents the spell from stacking with itself, or stacking with other, related spells, indefinitely. If multiple instances are allowed, there must be an explicitly worded limit, and multiple instances of identical effects can't stack. (Examples for creatures: Create Magic Tattoo, Enlarge/Reduce Person; Examples for objects: Keen Edge, Holy Sword, Fire Trap; Examples of violators: Choking Cobwebs' Constitution damage)
MUST NOT: Provide untyped bonuses or penalties of any kind. These always stack, and always interact with themselves.
MUST NOT: Have a limited number of uses or charges. This includes single-use spells (such as True Strike), as well as spells that discharge after fulfilling a certain condition (such as Prying Eyes discharging after returning to your hand, or Protection from Energy discharging after preventing a fixed amount of damage).
MUST NOT: Have a duration of Instantaneous. You cannot Permanency a spell without a duration; either its effect occurs for a single instant before dissipating (see most blasting spells) or has a permanent effect which is not kept permanent by magic (certain Conjuration [Creation] spells fall under this category).
MUST: Have a fixed (and rather) limited duration, if the spell has a negative effect at all. By extension, the spell MUST NOT have a negative effect that lasts "for the duration of the spell", or any similar wording; the duration of the effect that it provides must be independent of the spell's duration. (Examples: Karmic Aura, Stinking Cloud)

Spells that affect yourself or another creature
SHOULD NOT: Provide a qualitative difference in the creature. This includes, but is not limited to: attacks that the creature is not assumed to already have access to (such as a natural attack not normally granted to a creature, such as a bite, slam, claw, talon, or tail attack); a movement mode that the creature is not assumed to have access to (such as a flight, swim, or burrow speed); a bonus that the creature is not assumed to already have access to (such as an enhancement bonus to an ability score, insight bonus to attack rolls, armor bonus to Armor Class, or competence bonus to a skill); or a property or ability of any other kind that the creature is not assumed to have access to (such as Flaming Burst and related properties, any spell-like abilities, any energy resistance or immunity, any spell resistance or immunity, any damage resistance, or any immunity to adverse effects). Common exceptions to this rule include detection spells (such as Arcane Sight, Detect Aberration and Detect Good/Evil/Chaos/Law, to self only), minor enhancement bonuses to existing qualities of the character (such as Magic Fang to existing natural attacks, and Resistance to existing saves) and size bonuses (Enlarge/Reduce Person). Subversions of this rule (which were not included in the core criteria, but are included in this new criteria) are Sharptooth and Jagged Tooth on existing natural attacks (which does not stack with itself, or any iteration thereof; this follows the precedent set by Magic Fang), means of subverting certain detections (such as Undetectable Alignment and Dead End), means of basic survival in harsh environments (such as Air Breathing, Water Breathing and Resist Planar Effects), enhancements and properties that affect equipment (provided that they do not stack with any other enhancements and properties that provide related or identical effects), and Create Magic Tattoo (the one direct violation of this rule for which there is no precedent; incidentally, it's also one that I'm tempted to take down, for this reason).
SHOULD NOT: Be a spell that a Sorcerer or Wizard cannot cast, especially if it is a spell with "Range: Personal". This has been subverted on occasion, however (Examples: Tojanida Sight, Greenfire).

I don't have comprehensive criteria for spells that should or should not be Permanencied, but this is a good place to start. I'll probably add more as they occur to me.


You might wanna state that in your initial thread.

I thought I did.

I'll add it, thanks.


Nice work otherwise, will ping you if I find anything not here already. Personally been houseruling on the spot for them for years, permanency was never supported enough to begin with, but the fact that they failed to mention it retrospectively in further supplements (i.e. This spell may be affected by the spell Permanency) leads me to wonder if it was a spell deliberately gossed over?

Dracomortis and I have actually found a select few spells that actually do have Permanency written into their writing. I've only seen two splatbooks that have explicitly mentioned Permanency: Races of the Dragon and Sandstorm. Dracomortis pointed out spells in both lists, and I found another spell or two in Sandstorm that is eligible for Permanency as-written. There is no consistent patter for me that suggests that the spell was deliberately glossed over or simply forgotten, which leads me to think that there are maybe one or two people at Wizards of the Coast that ever cared about Permanency, and the rest never thought about spell interactions during the creation process.

TuggyNE
2011-12-30, 08:54 PM
Spells that affect yourself or another creature
SHOULD NOT: Provide a qualitative difference in the creature. This includes, but is not limited to: attacks that the creature is not assumed to already have access to (such as a natural attack not normally granted to a creature, such as a bite, slam, claw, talon, or tail attack); a movement mode that the creature is not assumed to have access to (such as a flight, swim, or burrow speed); a bonus that the creature is not assumed to already have access to (such as an enhancement bonus to an ability score, insight bonus to attack rolls, armor bonus to Armor Class, or competence bonus to a skill); or a property or ability of any other kind that the creature is not assumed to have access to (such as Flaming Burst and related properties, any spell-like abilities, any energy resistance or immunity, any spell resistance or immunity, any damage resistance, or any immunity to adverse effects). Common exceptions to this rule include detection spells (such as Arcane Sight, Detect Aberration and Detect Good/Evil/Chaos/Law, to self only), minor enhancement bonuses to existing qualities of the character (such as Magic Fang to existing natural attacks, and Resistance to existing saves) and size bonuses (Enlarge/Reduce Person).

The bolded portion is a little unclear: are those examples of acceptable bonuses, or unacceptable? I would have assumed the former except that the other examples are all fairly clearly unacceptable. A bit of rewording might be good just in case.

Lonely Tylenol
2011-12-31, 05:12 AM
The bolded portion is a little unclear: are those examples of acceptable bonuses, or unacceptable? I would have assumed the former except that the other examples are all fairly clearly unacceptable. A bit of rewording might be good just in case.

They are listed as examples of unacceptable bonuses, and for a reason. An armor bonus to an existing set of armor (as the spell Magic Vestments) is quantitative and applied to equipment, which is acceptable; an armor bonus being given to a creature which does not already have one (as the spell Mage Armor) is qualitative (unarmored ~> armored) and applies the bonus directly to the player, which is unacceptable.

The only spell I have permitted that explicitly breaks this rule is Create Magic Tattoo, which sets a dangerous precedent, and may be taken off the list as-is.

Zeta Kai
2011-12-31, 11:08 AM
The bolded portion is a little unclear: are those examples of acceptable bonuses, or unacceptable? I would have assumed the former except that the other examples are all fairly clearly unacceptable. A bit of rewording might be good just in case.

The fact that those are under the SHOULD NOT heading should make it clear that they are unacceptable.

killem2
2011-12-31, 11:35 PM
I really like this thread, so please don't take my suggestions as anything more than "spells you might want to consider, but I don't have any real stake in them lol"..

from Book of Exalted Deeds
Blinding Glory
Celestial Brilliance
Vanishing Weapon
Righteous Glare


Not sure about the glare, it might be too over the top.

Lonely Tylenol
2012-01-02, 06:47 PM
I really like this thread, so please don't take my suggestions as anything more than "spells you might want to consider, but I don't have any real stake in them lol"..

from Book of Exalted Deeds
Blinding Glory
Celestial Brilliance
Vanishing Weapon
Righteous Glare


Not sure about the glare, it might be too over the top.

I take objection to adding Righteous Glare for the same reason as I take objection to Opalescent Gaze (although by RAW it can be argued, dubiously, that the latter is a permanent effect, since the duration is "instantaneous" and it states that you "gain" a gaze attack).

I have added the other three.

absolmorph
2012-01-02, 10:19 PM
Possible additions from Book of Vile Deeds:
Black Bag
Cheat
Distort Summons (this one is iffy)
Drug Resistance
Nether Trail
No Light
Sacrificial Skill
Stupor

killem2
2012-01-02, 11:37 PM
Some more options:

From Complete Scoundrel:

1. Blockade
2. Create Fetch
3. Evacuation Rune



From: 3.5 Edition - Blue Devil Games - Sourcebook - Poisoncraft

I put these in a spoiler since they are from 3rd party source book.


AUGMENT POISON
Enhances the strength of 1 poison dose/3 levels.
Transmutation [Poison]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 10 ft.
Target: 1 non-magical poison dose/3 levels
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)
This spell makes poison more potent and toxic. Any dose of poison affected by the spell has its Fortitude DC increased by +1 per three caster levels. Furthermore, any ability damage caused by the poison does one additional point of damage for every
three caster levels. For example, if a poison normally deals 1d6 points of Strength damage and it were augmented by a 9th-level wizard, it would deal 1d6+3 points of Strength damage for the duration of the spell. If the poison causes an effect that has a duration, its duration is increased by one additional unit for every three caster levels. For example, if a poison normally causes paralysis for 1d6 rounds and it were augmented by a 13th-level wizard, it would cause paralysis for 1d6+4 rounds for the duration of the spell. If the duration of the spell expires, the augmented effect ends immediately. Thus, if a person has suffered an augmented poisonís initial damage and the spell ends before the secondary damage takes
effect, it would deal secondary damage as normal. This spell only affects discrete doses of poison, though they may already be placed on a weapon, trap, or other item. Thus, if the spell were cast on a 10-gallon vat of Willhammer, it would have no
effect. A dose of poison under the effect of this spell is considered a magically modified poison.


AUGMENT POISON, GREATER
As augment poison, but poison also gains metapoison feat.
Transmutation [Poison]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
This spell functions like augment poison, except that the affected doses also gain one of the following metapoison feats, selected at the time the spell is cast: Continue Poison, Empower Poison, Extend Poison, Gird Poison, Maximize Poison, Modify
Poison, Mute Poison, or Quicken Poison.

Material Component: A scorpion trapped in amber
worth 250 gp.


FORBIDDEN SCRIPT
Writing poisons any who read it but designated creature.
Necromancy [Poison, Language-Dependent]
Level: Brd 5, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: 1 oz. vial of ink
Duration: 1 hour/level; see text
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: No
You imbue the target ink with powerfully poisonous energy. If the ink is used during the duration of the spell, any writing produced with it is permeated with the energy. Once written and the ink dried, this effect is permanent. At the time the spell is cast, you may designate up to one unique creature per level that is immune from the effects of the poisonous script. Anything written with the ink after the duration of the spell expires is normal script. Once the ink dries, anyone reading the text other than you or a designated creature is immediately exposed to a magically created ingestion poison. The
poison has a Fortitude DC equal to 10 + Ĺ your caster level + your relevant ability modifier. The initial and secondary damage of the poison are death. Merely looking at the text does not trigger the effect. It is only triggered if the creature
actually reads the writing. Some shady spellcasters have been known to write their spellbooks entirely in forbidden script.

Material Component: A mixture of aged bloodyberry
juice and wyvern blood with a total value of at
least 250 gp that is mixed with the ink at the time of
casting.

TAINT LIQUIDS
All liquids within 30 ft. become poisonous.
Transmutation [Evil] [Poison]
Level: Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 30 ft.
Area: 30-ft.-radius burst, centered on you
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (object); see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)
Denaturing energy bursts in all directions from the point of origin, causing all liquids within the area of effect to lose their properties and become tainted with a magically created ingestion poison. The poison deals 1d4 points of Strength damage per 4 caster levels (maximum 5d4) as its initial and secondary damage. The Fortitude DC to resist the poison is equal to 10 + Ĺ your caster level + your relevant ability modifier. Attended or magical liquids get a Fortitude saving throw to resist the effect of the spell. At the expiration of the spell's duration, all affected liquids return to their previous state and are no longer poisonous.

Material Component: A piece of
onyx worth at least 250 gp.


From: 3.5 Edition - Code Monkey Publishing - Sourcebook - Dave Arnesons The Wizards Cabal


Agile Movement - not sure on this one
Transformation
Level: Brd 1, Rgr 1
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
You move across the battlefield with supernatural agility
and grace. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when
moving through threatened areas.


Probe Thoughts
Divination [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Wiz 5
Components: V, S, SF
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One living creature
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
All the targetís memories and knowledge are accessible to the caster. The caster can learn the answer to one question per round, to the best of the targetís knowledge. The caster can also probe a sleeping target, though the target may make a Will save against the DC of the mind probe to wake after
each question. Targets who do not wish to be probed can attempt to move beyond the spellís range, unless somehow hindered. The caster poses the questions telepathically, and the answers to those questions are imparted directly to his or her mind.

The caster and the target do not need to speak the same language, though less intelligent creatures may yield u ponly appropriate visual images in answer to the casterís
questions.



Smoke Cloud
Evocation [Air, Fire]
Level: ArW 2, Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: 5-ft.-radius area/2 levels
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
The caster creates a cloud of billowing smoke that blinds
and chokes all who are caught within it. Unless a successful
Fortitude save is made, any creature caught in the smoke
cloud will receive a Ė1 circumstance penalty to all attack
and damage rolls as well as Ė2 circumstance penalty to AC
as long as they remain within the area of effect.
Spellcasters caught in the area of effect (and who fail
the required Fortitude save) will also need to make a Concentration
check every round that they remain within the
smoke cloud and wish to cast a spell (Concentration check
DC equals casterís spell save DC + the level of the spell that
is being cast).