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Tanuki Tales
2011-12-23, 07:34 PM
Youxia



I originally had an image here, but this was before the image use rule update. Hopefully someday I'll find a replacement.



”How can Kung Fu stop something that stops Kung Fu?”

-Po, Kung Fu Panda 2.



Youxia are heroes who follow a path, forged by strength and tempered by honor, that leads them to a destiny that they can only strive to craft as a righteous one. They are a wandering knight-errant, a champion for the weak and oppressed, who are beholden to no authority save their own creeds and will use the vindictive power of their bodies and souls to see justice done.

Masters of armed and unarmed combat, Youxia are more than simple practitioners of the martial arts. They are conduits for the supernatural power of their disciplines, utilizing it to achieve feats that would shatter and kill lesser men. A Youxia is a hero born from the ether of the world, raising up from unassuming roots to become an unstoppable force of chivalry. It matters not if the evil they find standing before them is a single man or an entire nation they will put their fists and heart completely into carving out a future that is for the benefit of the greater good.



Alignment: Any Good.

Hit Dice: d10

Class skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Perception (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str)
Skills: 6+Intelligence Modifier per level



{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fortitude Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|
Special|Wushu Strike|Fast Movement

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+2|
Enlightened Armor, The Hand is Quicker than the Eye, Wushu Strike|
+1d6/+0d6|
+0 ft.

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+3|
Insightful Strike, Path of Dim Mak, Qinggong|
+1d6/+0d6|
+0 ft.

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+3|
Wushu Style|
+2d6/+1d6|
+10 ft.

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+4|
Secret Arts of Qi|
+2d6/+1d6|
+10 ft.

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+4|
Fortified Essence|
+3d6/+1d6|
+10 ft.

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+5|
Wushu Style|
+3d6/+1d6|
+20 ft.

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+5|
-|
+4d6/+2d6|
+20 ft.

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+6|
-|
+4d6/+2d6|
+20 ft.

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+6|
Wushu Style|
+5d6/+2d6|
+30 ft.

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+7|
+7|
Lips of Creation, Nieli Blast 3d6|
+5d6/+2d6|
+30 ft.

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+7|
+7|
-|
+6d6/+3d6|
+30 ft.

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+8|
+8|
Nieli Blast 4d6, Wushu Style|
+6d6/+3d6|
+40 ft.

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+8|
+8|
-|
+7d6/+3d6|
+40 ft.

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+9|
+9|
Nieli Blast 5d6|
+7d6/+3d6|
+40 ft.

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+9|
Wushu Style|
+8d6/+4d6|
+50 ft.

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+10|
+10|
Nieli Blast 6d6|
+8d6/+4d6|
+50 ft.

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+10|
-|
+9d6/+4d6|
+50 ft.

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+11|
+11|
Nieli Blast 7d6, Wushu Style|
+9d6/+4d6|
+60 ft.

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+11|
+11|
-|
+10d6/+5d6|
+60 ft.

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+12|
Inner Peace, Nieli Blast 8d6|
+10d6/+5d6|
+60 ft.
[/table]

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Youxia are proficient with all simple, martial and improvised weapons. They may select one exotic weapon of their choice to be proficient in. Youxia are not proficient with any form of armor or shields.


Enlightened Armor (Ex)
A Youxia does use things such as steel or leather to protect their bodies, relying on their inner discipline and sense of the world to stave off those who would harm them.

At 1st level, a Youxia receives a bonus to their Armor Class equal to 1.5 times their Wisdom modifier (minimum 0). This bonus applies to Touch attack and when the Youxia is flatfooted. The Youxia loses this bonus when immobilized or helpess or if they carry heavier than a medium load.


The Hand is Quicker than the Eye (Ex)
The reflexes and movements of the Youxia are honed to the speed of lightning, allowing them to rain down more blows than one not gifted such as themselves.

Starting at 1st level, when making an attack action, the Youxia may make an extra attack at their highest base attack bonus. If they choose to use this extra attack then they take a -2 penalty to all attacks in that specific routine. The Youxia may make an additional attack and increases the penalty by an additional -2 for every five levels after the first, to a maximum of four additional attacks at 16th level.

The Youxia may substitute disarm, sunder and trip combat maneuvers in place of normal attacks.


Wushu Strike (Ex)
Youxia possess great skill and force above that of normal men and can put this knowledge to good use when wielding themselves or any object as a weapon.

At 1st level, and every two levels thereafter, the Youxia gains a 1d6 damage bonus on their Unarmed Strikes. This bonus modifies the damage dice the weapon deals, being added in addition to the normal damage dice. [For example: A 1st level Human Youxia would treat their Unarmed Strike as if it dealt 1d3+1d6 damage instead of 1d3.]

For every 2d6 of this bonus the Youxia gains a 1d6 damage bonus on any weapon they wield that they are proficient with.

This bonus is multiplied by a critical hit. Any item, feat or ability that would increase the effective level of a Monk's Unarmed Strike increases the effective level of a Youxia's Wushu Strike.

A Youxia additionally gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.


Qinggong (Ex)
A Youxia's body moves with far greater swiftness than that of others. They travel like blurs, their motions almost like lightning itself as they even pierce the heavens with their efforts.


At 2nd level, the Youxia gains Evasion. If the Youxia makes a successful reflex save against any attack or effect that would normally deal half damage on a successful save, they instead take no damage. Evasion can only be used if the Youxia is wearing light or no armor. A helpless Youxia does not gain the benefit of Evasion.

At 3rd level, as long as the Youxia is conscious and not helpless they take no damage from falling.

At 3rd level, a Youxia gains a +10 bonus to their base land speed. This bonus increases by 10 feet for every three levels the Youxia possesses in this class, to a maximum of +60 at 20th level.

At 6th level, the Youxia may treat any surface as flat solid ground, regardless of makeup or direction. This allows the Youxia to travel as normal across walls, ceilings, water or even open air. The Youxia must begin and end their movement on a surface that has some substance (so while ground, water or even a cloud suffice, open air or a void would not). If the Youxia would travel across a substance that would normally deal them damage (such as acid or lava) they do not take damage unless they end their movement upon it. A successful Reflex save (DC 20) halves this damage and Evasion can not be applied. The Youxia may move their full speed and still make a full-attack action.

At 9th level, the Youxia gains Improved Evasion. The Youxia now takes only half damage on a failed reflex save against an attack, ability or effect that normally allows half damage on a successful reflex save.


Insightful Strike (Ex)
Youxia have long mastered the art of seeking out a foe's most vulnerable points and assaulting them for the best results.

At 2nd level, a Youxia gains a bonus to attack rolls and combat maneuver checks equal to half their Wisdom score modifier (minimum 0).


Path of Dim Mak
The Youxia begins a long and deep path towards understanding the use of their own chi, pressure points and the flow of life force of all natural (and some unnatural things) things for good and for ill.

At 2nd level, a Youxia must declare they are using this ability before making an attack. If the attack is successful and the foe takes damage, they must make a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the Youxia's level+the Youxia's Wisdom modifier) or be stunned for one round.

This is an Extraordinary ability. Creatures normally immune to stunning (except Constructs) are not immune to this ability. The Youxia may use this ability a number of times per encounter equal to one half their Wisdom modifier (minimum 1).


At 7th level, as a standard action that invokes an attack of opportunity, the Youxia does several quick jabs to themselves or an adjacent ally. The target then gains Fast Healing equal to one half their total hit dice (minimum 1) for a number of rounds equal to one half the Youxia's level+the Youxia's Wisdom score modifier (minimum 1).

A target can not benefit from this ability more than once every three hours. This is an Extraordinary ability and Constructs are immune to its effects. The Youxia can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1/2 their total levels in this class+their Wisdom modifier.


At 10th level, as a standard action, the Youxia makes a melee touch attack against an adjacent foe. The foe must make a successful Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the Youxia's level+the Youxia's Wisdom modifier) or be paralyzed for a number of minutes equal to 1/2 the Youxia's level+their Wisdom modifier.

This ability affects creatures normally immune to paralysis. This is an Extraordinary ability and Constructs are immune to its effects. The Youxia can use this ability once per encounter per two points of Wisdom modifier they possess (minimum 1).


At 14th level, as a swift action, the Youxia does several quick jabs to themselves or an adjacent ally. The target then can make a new saving throw against any one negative effect currently affecting them at its original DC. They also gain a bonus to the saving throw equal to half the Youxia's Wisdom modifier.

A target can not benefit from this ability more than once every three hours. This is a Supernatural ability and Constructs are immune to its effects. The Youxia can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1/2 their total levels in this class+their Wisdom modifier.


At 15th level, once per day, the Youxia may announce one attack as being a Quivering Palm strike. If the attack is successful and the foe takes damage from the attack, the Quivering Palm is successful. From that point on the Youxia, for a number of days equal to the Youxia's level, they may kill the target simply by willing it so. The target must make a Fortitude Save (DC 10+1/2 the Youxia's level+the Youxia's Wisdom modifier) or be slain instantly as their body breaks down from the inside out.

This is a Supernatural ability and Constructs are immune to its effects.


At 18th level, as a standard action that invokes an attack of opportunity, the Youxia may make a melee touch attack against an adjacent foe. If the attack is successful the target must make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 the Youxia's level+the Youxia's Wisdom modifier). If the target fails the save, the Youxia dictates how the target will take their next turn. The Youxia has access to any abilities or tactics the target has but must decide exactly how the target takes their next turn as soon as the target fails its save. The target will then follow these dictated actions to the best of its ability. A creature is immune to this ability for 24 hours after being affected by it (regardless if it makes its saving throw or not).

This is a Supernatural ability and Constructs are immune to its effects. The Youxia may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1/2 their total levels in this class+their Wisdom modifier.


Wushu Style
A Youxia defines themselves not only by their potency and their adherence to the tennets of Xia but also by the style of Wushu that they master their bodies to flow with.

Starting at 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter, the Youxia selects any Style feat and gains it as a bonus feat. The Youxia need not meet the prerequisites for these feats, except requiring another Style feat.


Secret Arts of Qi (Su)
The Youxia, continuing down the path to true Inner Peace, have learned how to fashion and wield their chi to rival even the mightiest mystic armaments.

At 4th level and every four levels after, the Youxia gains a +1 enhancement bonus to their unarmed strikes and their AC. They may elect to instead gain a weapon or armor special quality equal to the bonus they would normally receive. Once this decision is made it and the enchantments chosen can only be changed when the Youxia gains another such bonus.

At 4th level, a Youxia's unarmed strikes count as magic weapons for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction and attacking incorporeal foes. At 10th level, a Youxia's unarmed strikes are treated as Adamantine for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction and attacking foes. At 16th level, a Youxia's unarmed strikes are treated as Good for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction and attacking foes.


Fortified Essence (Ex)
The Youxia's chi enters a state of hyperactivity and responds in stronger force to the Youxia's discipline and force of will, granting them incredible resilience and fortitude to dangers mundane and supernatural.

At 5th level, the Youxia adds half their Wisdom modifier (minimum 0) to their Constitution modifier when determining bonus hit points and their Fortitude save. This effect is retroactive to all previous Hit Dice the Youxia possesses.

At 6th level, the Youxia gains Spell Resistance equal to 11+their total levels in their class+1/2 their Wisdom score modifier.

At 8th level, the Youxia is immune to diseases, poisons, fatigue and exhaustion. This immunity does not apply to supernatural diseases or poisons.

At 17th level, the Youxia no longer takes penalties from aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that they have already taken stay in place and they still accrue bonuses as normal and the Youxia still dies when their time is up.


Lips of Creation (Su)
As the Youxia works towards obtaining true inner peace they begin to feel the life pulse of all things around them and understand what they wish to convey.

At 10th level, the Youxia can now speak with and understand any living creature.


Nieli Blast (Su)
The first steps of mastering chi has been discovered by the Youxia as they can now form their very energy into a potent weapon.

At 10th level, as a standard action the Youxia can make a ranged touch attack out to 60 feet with a range increment of 30 feet. This ranged touch attack deals force damage as shown on the table above. A foe struck by this attack is treated as if if bull rushed by a creature one size category larger than the Youxia. Use the Youxia's Combat Maneuver bonus to resolve this attempt, using the more favorable size modifier. If the creature is flying and is successfully bull rushed, it must make a Fly check (DC 10+1/2 the Youxia's level+the Youxia's Wisdom modifier) or lose the ability to fly for 1 round, automatically plummeting to the ground.

The Youxia may use this ability once per encounter per two points of Wisdom modifier they possess (minimum 1).


Inner Peace
The Youxia has finished their long, arduous journey at last. They have found inside of themselves a true state of peace and nirvana, becoming a master of their destiny and art.

At 20th level, The Youxia gains the following benefits:
The Youxia can use Commune with Nature as a spell-like ability once per day. The Youxia gains knowledge of areas even if nature has been overcome by construction or settlements.
The Youxia selects one specific substance that they partake of (such as wine, peaches, tobacco or pork) and this is designated as their "elixir". The Youxia no longer has a maximum age category and as long as they partake of their elixir once every five days they revert and stay in their physical prime. The Youxia takes no physical penalties from aging and is immune to any form of aging (magical or otherwise) in this state. The mental bonuses for aging still accrue as normal.
A spell that fails to overcome the Youxia's spell resistance is stored by the Youxia for a number of rounds equal to the Youxia's Wisdom modifier. As long as the Youxia has a spell stored they receive a bonus on saving throws against the spell's school of magic equal to the spell's level. The Youxia, as a standard action, may expend the stored energy to either heal 1d10 hit points per level of the spell, increase their movement speed by 10 feet per level of the spell for five rounds or have their next Nieli Blast or Wushu Strike deal damage as if they were one level higher per level of the spell.


The Code of Xia

A Youxia must always be of Good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if they ever knowingly and willfully commit an act that goes against the tenants of Xia.

A Youxia must be honorable by upholding justice and aiding the poor and helpless. A Youxia must use their considerable might not only for personal gain but for the greater good. The Youxia need not submit to any higher authority but must do their best to maintain social justice. A Youxia must repay any benefactor who has given them deeds of grace or favors, but only if the benefactor is themselves righteous and honorable. A Youxia must always seek vengeance to bring a villain to justice, but must also practice forgiveness, passion and mercy. A Youxia must always be loyal and obedient to the wishes of their Master (if they have one). A Youxia will only settle disputes between themselves and any ally or peer in the confines of a one on one duel.

Associates: A Youxia may be allies to anyone of any walk of life as long as doing so would not violate the Code of Xia. A simple thief or con man may be considered a friend but a Youxia only works with the likes of cold blooded murderers and tyrants under the most dire of circumstances.


Ex-Youxia
A Youxia who ceases to be of Good alignment, who knowingly and willfully breaches the Code of Xia or who takes levels in any class other than Youxia loses all class features granted by this class (save proficiencies) and can no longer take levels in it.

A Youxia who commits a truly heroic deed of justice (as determined by the DM) and who is then subject to an Atonement spell regains all lost class features and may resume taking levels in this class.

Change Log
12/24/11 - Added forgotten rules text to Fortified Health and added forgotten tag to Chi Puppet.

12/25/11 - Jarring Blow, Free the Flow, Freeze the Life's Blood, Release the Current, Quivering Palm and Chi Puppet class features consolidated under Path of Dim Mak.
Reformatted Table to track Wushu Strike and Fast Movement bonuses.
Changed Wushu Strike to require less math/thinking.
Body of Chi and Supernatural Blow class features consolidated under Secret Arts of Qi.
Chi Enforcement, Diamond Soul, Fortified Health and Timeless Body class features consolidated under Fortified Essence.

12/27/11 - Path of Dim Mak 7th level ability changed from 1/4 HD to 1/2. 14th level ability changed from Standard action to Swift.

12/28/11 - Removed "shying away from killing" clause from Code of Xia.

12/29/11 - Increased Wushu Strike for weapons from 3:1 to 2:1.
Increased Nieli Blast damage by 1d6, removed the Fortitude save for the bull rush effect and added a new debuff to it.
Changed Insightful Strike and 5th level ability of Fortified Essence to adding half Wisdom instead of using it as a replacement.
5 Ability Replacement feats added.
Added level gained at for abilities that were missing it.
Added Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting as the 16th level upgrade for The Hand is Quicker than the Eye class feature.

1/1/12 - Evasion, Dance of the Leaf, Fast Movement, Pierce the Heavens and Improved Evasion class features consolidated under Qinggong.
6th level ability of Qinggong completely reworked.
Nieli Blast moved back to level 10 from level 12 and damage increased by another dice.
Wushu Styles reworked.

1/4/12 - Tang Lang Wushu Style added.

1/11/12 - Weapon Master, Dashing Rogue and Rampage of Legacy feats added.

1/18/12 - Cleaned up some formatting issues.
Exploit the Gap and Entrapping Strike class features added to the Tang Lang Wushu Style
The Dodge bonus from Swaying Waist for Zui Quan has been lowered from +2 to +1.

1/22/12 - Inner Peace Capstone re-written.
Deflect Siege Weapon and Snatch Siege Weapon feats added.
Entrapping Strike changed from free action to swift action.

7/18/2013 - Wushu Style reworked.

7/19/2013 - The Hand is Quicker than the Eye class feature reworked.
Comments section updated.
Pious Traveler, Fist of the Forest, Charming Vagabond, Walk the Righteous Path, Honorable Hunter, Romance in the Blood and Arcane Philosopher feats added.

Comments

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me start this off by saying something that anyone who's spent any real amount of time on a DnD webforum will know:



Monks suck.

Monks in fact and do indeed suck. A lot.



With that out of the way, let me tell you that this is not Monk Fix X. I am not in any way shape or form trying to fix the Monk or make a Monk playable or reinvision the Monk or any of that.

Why and how is this you ask?

To me the Monk is exactly what it says on the tin. They're an individual who spent years and years locked away in a temple somewhere, concentrating on utter discipline while devoting their lives to some religious dogma. They don't generally have "real" lives like other adventurers and also tend to be very solemn and strict among other things. They also happen to be the class originally made to let everyone play a martial artist.

Well...what if I want to be good and awesome at Kung Fu without shaving my head and singing hymns?

What if I want to play Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan instead?

The Youxia is my attempt at grasping that concept.

Now, I want to make it quite frank and clear that I am only now dipping my toe in the grand genre that is Wuxia. I've only seen one Wuxia film proper (Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon but that was yeeeeeaaars ago) and a few movies that are homages or are somewhat similar (such as Kung Fu Panda and Kung Fu Hustle). So please don't take too much offense with how I've tried to portray it in this class and please have patience with me as I continue to develop it. And you're always welcome to correct me and aide me in doing so.

Update [7/18/2013]: Is Forbidden Kingdom a Wuxia movie? Because I've seen that one too.

I also want to say that I'm hitting the ground running with this class (especially the Wushu Style) and it's very rough as I'm posting it now. I have a general idea of how I want things to work but I'm not sure I've articulated them right. I've also hodgepodged writing it (doing some here and there, maybe next working at it at 1 am only to continue right after waking up the next day, etc.) so please bear with any grammar or conflicting writing or what have you.

Now, since I mentioned it up there, Wushu Styles. I'm still not really sure what I want out of them. Right now they're like a big, uber feat (I think) and I'm not sure if that's enough or too little. I'll be posting one as an example of how I envision them working, but out of everything they're probably what I'll need the most help coming up with and refining.

Well, I'll stop this here before I start to ramble. Thanks for reading and please do critique and give help however you can.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-23, 07:35 PM
Reserved for later later use.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-23, 07:36 PM
Character Options


Feats


Might makes Right
Prerequisites: Strength 13, must be taken at or before first level of Youxia is taken.
Benefit: You use your Strength modifier rather than your Wisdom modifier for all Youxia class features that normally rely on Wisdom.


Art of Flying Dagger
Prerequisites: Dexterity 13, must be taken at or before first level of Youxia is taken.
Benefit: You use your Dexterity modifier rather than your Wisdom modifier for all Youxia class features that normally rely on Wisdom.
Special: You receive twice your Dexterity bonus to AC when under the effects of the Enlightened Armor class feature, not 2.5.


Belly full of Iron
Prerequisites: Constitution 13, must be taken at or before first level of Youxia is taken.
Benefit: You use your Constitution modifier rather than your Wisdom modifier for all Youxia class features that normally rely on Wisdom.


The Mind is Sharper than the Sword
Prerequisites: Intelligence 13, must be taken at or before first level of Youxia is taken.
Benefit: You use your Intelligence modifier rather than your Wisdom modifier for all Youxia class features that normally rely on Wisdom.


Romance on the Battlefield
Prerequisites: Charisma 13, must be taken at or before first level of Youxia is taken.
Benefit: You use your Charisma modifier rather than your Wisdom modifier for all Youxia class features that normally rely on Wisdom.


Weapon Master
Prerequisites: Character level 6.
Benefit: You may take levels of Fighter without violating your Code of Xia. Your Youxia and Fighter levels stack for determining your Bravery bonus and Armor/Weapon Training. Your Youxia and Fighter levels stack for determining your Wushu Strike, Wushu Style and Fast Movement.


Dashing Rogue
Prerequisites: Character level 6.
Benefit: You may take levels of Rogue without violating your Code of Xia. Your Youxia and Fighter levels stack for determining your Sneak Attack, Trap sense bonus and the minimum level Rogue necessary to Sneak attack you. Your Youxia and Rogue levels stack for determining your Wushu Strike, Wushu Style and Fast Movement.


Rampage of Legacy
Prerequisites: Character level 6.
Benefit: You may take levels of Barbarian without violating your Code of Xia. Your Youxia and Barbarian levels stack for determining the amount of rounds you can Rage per day and level for qualifying for Rage Powers. Your Youxia and Barbarian levels stack for determining your Wushu Strike, Wushu Style and Fast Movement.


Pious Traveler
Prerequisites: Character level 6.
Benefit: You may take levels of Cleric without violating your Code of Xia. Your Youxia and Cleric levels stack for determining your Channel Energy class feature and your Caster Level. Your Youxia and Cleric levels stack for determining your Wushu Strike, Wushu Style and Fast Movement.


Fist of the Forest
Prerequisites: Character level 6.
Benefit: You may take levels of Druid without violating your Code of Xia. Your Youxia and Druid levels stack for determining your Nature Bond and Wildshape class features. Your Youxia and Druid levels stack for determining your Wushu Strike, Wushu Style and Fast Movement.


Charming Vagabond
Prerequisites: Character level 6.
Benefit: You may take levels of Bard without violating your Code of Xia. Your Youxia and Bard levels stack for determining your Bardic Knowledge class feature. Your levels in Youxia and Bard also stack for determining what Bardic Music you have access to and for determining how many rounds of Bardic Music per day you possess. Your Youxia and Bard levels stack for determining your Wushu Strike, Wushu Style and Fast Movement.


Walk the Righteous Path
Prerequisites: Character level 6.
Benefit: You may take levels of Paladin without violating your Code of Xia. Your Youxia and Paladin levels stack for determining your Smite Evil, Divine Bond and Mercy class features. Your Youxia and Barbarian levels stack for determining your Wushu Strike, Wushu Style and Fast Movement.
Special: When taking this feat you may choose to either follow the Code of Xia or your Paladin's Code. You no longer need to adhere to both.


honorable Hunter
Prerequisites: Character level 6.
Benefit: You may take levels of Ranger without violating your Code of Xia. Your Youxia and Ranger levels stack for determining your Favored Enemy, Favored Terrain and Hunter's Bond class features. Your Youxia and Ranger levels stack for determining your Wushu Strike, Wushu Style and Fast Movement.


Romance in the Blood
Prerequisites: Character level 6.
Benefit: You may take levels of Sorcerer without violating your Code of Xia. Your Youxia and Sorcerer levels stack for determining your Bloodline powers and your Caster Level. Your Youxia and Sorcerer levels stack for determining your Wushu Strike, Wushu Style and Fast Movement.


Arcane Philosopher
Prerequisites: Character level 6.
Benefit: You may take levels of Wizard without violating your Code of Xia. Your Youxia and Wizard levels stack for determining your Arcane Bond class feature, Arcane School powers and Caster Level. Your Youxia and Wizard levels stack for determining your Wushu Strike, Wushu Style and Fast Movement.


Deflect Siege Weapon (Combat)
Prerequisites: Character level 6th, Deflect Arrows, Snatch Arrows
Benefit: When using the Deflect Arrows feat, you may now deflect massive ranged weapons and ranged attacks generated by natural attacks.


Snatch Siege Weapon (Combat)
Prerequisites: Character level 6th, Deflect Siege Weapon
Benefit: When using the Deflect Siege Weapon feat, you may choose to catch the weapon instead of deflecting it. The caught weapon may be immediately thrown back as an attack against the original attacker or kept for later use.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-23, 07:37 PM
Reserved for later later use.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-23, 07:39 PM
Reserved for later^3 use.

Wyntonian
2011-12-23, 07:41 PM
First off, please spoiler the huge picture at the top.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-23, 07:42 PM
First off, please spoiler the huge picture at the top.

Thanks for posting before you were sure I was done. :smallsigh:

And it's not that large to me. *shrugs*

Edit: So I don't double post:


Aaaand finally done. For now. @.@

Mulletmanalive
2011-12-23, 08:07 PM
I find myself put of reading this because of the horrible cream text of eyestrain -6.

If you're willing to change that, i shall offer a review

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-23, 08:21 PM
I find myself put of reading this because of the horrible cream text of eyestrain -6.

If you're willing to change that, i shall offer a review

It's actually not as bright as the first 4 colors I selected, but I'll see if I can find a darker one. :smalltongue:


Edit: Color fixed. :smallbiggrin:

Fako
2011-12-23, 11:40 PM
The class flows really well - the class features all seem to make sense, and no one level seems too bloated (other than level 1, which is normal). However, what's your balance point? Tier 3? 4?

Also, two things stand out as concerning:

1) Wushu Strike - I agree that melee needs some serious boosts to be viable at later levels, but I'm leery of an ability that hands out extra dice of actual weapon damage, as opposed to precision or situation damage boosts. Also, how do you handle adding half the dice to a weapon, if the dice allowed is an odd number? Do you round down? add a d3?

2) Freeze the Life's Blood - Wizards have been tossing around Hold Monster for a couple of levels by the time this kicks in, but I'm wondering what your reason is for allowing this to bypass normal paralysis immunity? Does a Youxia have such intimate knowledge of the flow of energy that he can freeze the forces animating an undead corpse?

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-24, 12:04 AM
The class flows really well - the class features all seem to make sense, and no one level seems too bloated (other than level 1, which is normal). However, what's your balance point? Tier 3? 4?

And I surpass two of the pit falls of the Monk already. Huzzah!

Anything I make I aim to be, at bare minimum, Tier 3. I don't mind making something that is Tier 2 or higher but I try to not dip under a low Tier 3.


Also, two things stand out as concerning:

1) Wushu Strike - I agree that melee needs some serious boosts to be viable at later levels, but I'm leery of an ability that hands out extra dice of actual weapon damage, as opposed to precision or situation damage boosts. Also, how do you handle adding half the dice to a weapon, if the dice allowed is an odd number? Do you round down? add a d3?

The problem with precision damage is that it's just that, precision damage. I was trying to come up with a suitable replacement for the Unarmed Strike Progression of the Monk because choosing between Unarmed Strikes and a weapon was one of its problems. It was never more beneficial or even a real question to choose the Unarmed Strikes. With Wushu Strike I was trying to give a flat bump to the damage dealt by both UAS and weapons regardless of situations but having it pay off more for the UAS (giving you an opportunity cost).

People loathe the d3 for some reason, so I guess I'll try to either rethink that bit or just take out those intervals and only leave in the even dice.


2) Freeze the Life's Blood - Wizards have been tossing around Hold Monster for a couple of levels by the time this kicks in, but I'm wondering what your reason is for allowing this to bypass normal paralysis immunity? Does a Youxia have such intimate knowledge of the flow of energy that he can freeze the forces animating an undead corpse?

My reasoning behind having Constructs immune to abilities of the Youxia but nothing else is that a Youxia isn't attacking nervous systems or stopping muscle movements or any of that with its abilities. It's attacking the network that houses and supports the Chi (or lifeforce or chakra or what have you) of the creature. So Undead would still have this network, it's just corrupted or fueled by negative energy or what have you.

Constructs on the other hand are inorganic, non-living creatures that tend to be animated by outside forces and never had this network to begin with.

Now I know there are questionable case by case exceptions on each side (such as Flesh Golems or Revived Fossils) but I felt a blanket immunity for one and blanket removal of immunity for the other was just easier and less complicated.

And the weird thing is that yes, Hold Monster has been around earlier but all the spells I can find that cause actual paralysis are of a higher level. I'd knock it back, but Lips of Creation isn't enough by itself.



Now my important question for you is, what do you think of the Wushu Style thus far?

Fako
2011-12-24, 12:55 AM
People loathe the d3 for some reason, so I guess I'll try to either rethink that bit or just take out those intervals and only leave in the even dice.

Makes sense. Another option for reduction would be to treat their effective level as X lower for purposes of Wushu Strike if using a weapon (ex: 4 levels lower would take 2d6 dice off), but I'm not sure how steep that would need to be to balance out.


And the weird thing is that yes, Hold Monster has been around earlier but all the spells I can find that cause actual paralysis are of a higher level. I'd knock it back, but Lips of Creation isn't enough by itself.

Again, makes sense, was just seeking clarification. Why not swap it with Release the Current, if you're worried about its current level? Pushes it back a few levels, and being able to grant a second saving throw to an ally isn't bad at this level (Iron Heart Surge has been around for a while, as has a lot of the cleric's Remove effects).


Now my important question for you is, what do you think of the Wushu Style thus far?

With only one style to critique, it seems situational, but useful. However, I'm not the best judge of combat maneuvers for use/balance, seeing as the group I run avoids them like the plague...

Mulletmanalive
2011-12-24, 06:48 AM
The Hand is Quicker than the Eye (Ex) seems like it should have True Two Weapon Fighting at 16th level.

Wushu Strike (Ex) seems off to have the damage multiplied on a critical but that's just me. Seemed the whole world went nuts after CA clarified hat you could crit with spells. The shortsword example either needs to be stated as 1d6+2d3 or you"ll need an armed damage modifier listing in the table [like the +1d6/+0d6 thing from ranged sneak attack].

Evasion et al general complaint, but you've not put levels in the descriptions, which forces me to refer back to the table, which is annoying.

Insightful Strike (Ex) this is a SAD class feature. Such things are bad design in my book. I know WotC made this mistake but no class should key to less than two abilities; possibly there are more coming so i'l hold off for now [no, strenth to damage doesn't count].



Jarring Blow (Ex) Encounter uses = good, SAD = bad. I actually prefer Dazed or Nauseated to Stunning if it has the possibility of being used on players, especially because stun-locking isn't someting that i'm familiar with from my wudang collection.



You could easily fold Body of Chi (Su) and Supernatural Blow (Su) into one feature. Normal D&D prevents enhancement bonus less items from having courier effects but as they won't "count as magical" without one, it's probably a worthy tradeoff. Just create a "counts as adamantine" enhancement and you're done.



Chi Enforcement (Ex) SAD is bad



Pierce the Heavens (Ex) i'm not sure how i feel about this one. Pounce as probably due earlier in a tier 3 game, while combined with that awesome movement ability it seems heavyhanded.



Free the Flow (Ex), Fortified Health (Ex), Improved Evasion (Ex) all solid features. Fortified Health could do with clarifying if you can resist supernatural stuff.



Freeze the Life's Blood (Ex) effectively a bonus feat, worked then, works now.



Nieli Blast (Su) why the save? The bullrush itself is shaky enough without the save.



Release the Current (Su) nice, fits the fluff, actually original ability [same praise goes to Free the Flow too]



Quivering Palm (Su) rarely all that useful but at leat it's daily. I'd include additional uses at higher levels. In real life, Quivering Palm is a soft technique that would ignore all forms of DR rather than the insta-kill of the D&D version. Just trivia really.



Chi Puppet needs an ability type, probably Sp, and should probably be clear whether you gain knowledge of what the target is capable of. Possibly another class feature that allows you to read your target. In fact, this is something the class feels fundamentally lacking for a heroic warrior...



Inner Peace its a capstone, they're meant to be silly, though it doesn't exactly scream "inner peace."



Overall, it seems lacking something as a wuxia movie fan and the SAD design goes against everything i believe about good design: with only one ability to dictate your abilities, all youxia will have everything maxed and there are too few modular components in the class to lead to any real variation between examples of the class.

Ability assessment: significantly more lethal than the already very munchy rogue with some stun-locking but little variation between combats.

Fun Assessment: ToB for those who don't like the fiddliness of the manoeuvre system

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-24, 11:23 AM
Makes sense. Another option for reduction would be to treat their effective level as X lower for purposes of Wushu Strike if using a weapon (ex: 4 levels lower would take 2d6 dice off), but I'm not sure how steep that would need to be to balance out.

Now there's an idea. I'll see what I can do but it may not happen before the holidays.




Again, makes sense, was just seeking clarification. Why not swap it with Release the Current, if you're worried about its current level? Pushes it back a few levels, and being able to grant a second saving throw to an ally isn't bad at this level (Iron Heart Surge has been around for a while, as has a lot of the cleric's Remove effects).

The problem is just a bump a Nieli Blast damage isn't really worth just a level anymore.

Now, I had thought of giving bonus feats but giving a better list to choose from than the Monk, but I ended up leaving that a cutting room floor. If I had it back in though, you'd be getting one at both 10 and 14th, filling those levels if I need to move things back. What do you think?




With only one style to critique, it seems situational, but useful. However, I'm not the best judge of combat maneuvers for use/balance, seeing as the group I run avoids them like the plague...

Well, I wanted to try to make something between an uber feat and a Martial Discipline, but I know I failed at doing that. So hopefully I'll get some help in that regard somewhere down the line.



The Hand is Quicker than the Eye (Ex) seems like it should have True Two Weapon Fighting at 16th level.

Don't remember that feat, but I'll definitely look into it. Thanks.


Wushu Strike (Ex) seems off to have the damage multiplied on a critical but that's just me. Seemed the whole world went nuts after CA clarified hat you could crit with spells. The shortsword example either needs to be stated as 1d6+2d3 or you"ll need an armed damage modifier listing in the table [like the +1d6/+0d6 thing from ranged sneak attack].

Well, Wushu Strike is supposed to be increasing the damage dice of a weapon, so it should get multiplied by critical hits. I never even read the rules concerning critting spells honestly.

Yeah, I'll be reworking how Wushu Strike works at some point so people don't need to using d3s or rounding or anything.


Evasion et al general complaint, but you've not put levels in the descriptions, which forces me to refer back to the table, which is annoying.

I can see a beef with that. I'll add in the levels they're gained at, but a large thing like that will definitely need to wait till after the holidays most likely.


Insightful Strike (Ex) this is a SAD class feature. Such things are bad design in my book. I know WotC made this mistake but no class should key to less than two abilities; possibly there are more coming so i'l hold off for now [no, strenth to damage doesn't count].

Well, one of the major issues with the Monk as a class was how incredibly MAD it was. And the sad truth is that the better written classes are in fact SAD or can be SAD easily or lean towards being SAD.


Jarring Blow (Ex) Encounter uses = good, SAD = bad. I actually prefer Dazed or Nauseated to Stunning if it has the possibility of being used on players, especially because stun-locking isn't someting that i'm familiar with from my wudang collection.

It's a renamed, slightly refluffed Stunning Fist. But then again Pathfinder's Monk does added status effects other than Stunning, so I'll see what I can whip up.



You could easily fold Body of Chi (Su) and Supernatural Blow (Su) into one feature. Normal D&D prevents enhancement bonus less items from having courier effects but as they won't "count as magical" without one, it's probably a worthy tradeoff. Just create a "counts as adamantine" enhancement and you're done.

Again, this is a fix of for one of the many flaws of the Monk. So while I will most likely fold the two together, they'll still be getting Magic, Adamantine and Good for free so their strikes can keep up in some way with a magic weapon in case they'd rather have literal Fists of Firey Justice before the middle of the game.




Chi Enforcement (Ex) SAD is bad

Noted as your opinion. For the third time. :smallbiggrin:




Pierce the Heavens (Ex) i'm not sure how i feel about this one. Pounce as probably due earlier in a tier 3 game, while combined with that awesome movement ability it seems heavyhanded.

This is my attempt at giving them non-magical flight. Because once again, this is another flaw of the monk being done away with. Very few Tier 3 or higher classes can't fly under their own power and Tier 3 or higher tend to not be as gear dependent as lower Tiers (with the Monk being one of the most gear dependent classes in the game).



Free the Flow (Ex), Fortified Health (Ex), Improved Evasion (Ex) all solid features. Fortified Health could do with clarifying if you can resist supernatural stuff.

Oops, forgot that. Thanks for the catch.



Freeze the Life's Blood (Ex) effectively a bonus feat, worked then, works now.

Thanks.




Nieli Blast (Su) why the save? The bullrush itself is shaky enough without the save.

I felt it was appropriate, but if it's unnecessary it can go.


Release the Current (Su) nice, fits the fluff, actually original ability [same praise goes to Free the Flow too]

Once more, thank you very much. :smallsmile:




Quivering Palm (Su) rarely all that useful but at leat it's daily. I'd include additional uses at higher levels. In real life, Quivering Palm is a soft technique that would ignore all forms of DR rather than the insta-kill of the D&D version. Just trivia really.

Well, it does change from daily to per encounter once you hit 20. And I could see changing it to be some kind of uber DR ignoring blow if you feel that'd be more appropriate.




Chi Puppet needs an ability type, probably Sp, and should probably be clear whether you gain knowledge of what the target is capable of. Possibly another class feature that allows you to read your target. In fact, this is something the class feels fundamentally lacking for a heroic warrior...

Crap, forgot the tag. Thanks for that catch. I'll see how I can truss it up more and also see if I can possibly add in another feature to mimic that. Any suggestions on how you'd believe it would work?



Inner Peace its a capstone, they're meant to be silly, though it doesn't exactly scream "inner peace."

Any suggestions then? Because it evolved from just being the Ranged Attack deflection (which is coming from Kung Fu Panda 2, being something only one who has attained inner peace can accomplish) to being a capstone.



[/quote]Overall, it seems lacking something as a wuxia movie fan[/quote]

I'm open for suggestions!


and the SAD design goes against everything i believe about good design: with only one ability to dictate your abilities, all youxia will have everything maxed and there are too few modular components in the class to lead to any real variation between examples of the class.

And your opinion is heard and noted in this regard, as well as appreciated and respected. But this is something that we just disagree on.


Ability assessment: significantly more lethal than the already very munchy rogue with some stun-locking but little variation between combats.

I'll be working on refining the Wushu Style which is where most variation for Youxia will be coming from and I'll see if I can tweak the Jarring Blow and some other things for more variation.


Fun Assessment: ToB for those who don't like the fiddliness of the manoeuvre system

Something I was aiming for. I could have just slapped maneuvers on this class but that's honestly the last thing to try in my bag of tricks to try and bring this class up to speed and completeness.

Mulletmanalive
2011-12-24, 12:04 PM
[Shrug] Fair enough, but this is a lot more single ability dependant than even the wizard. Barring the Druid, i can't think of anything that comes close...

While the druid and wizard are powerful, i'm not sure anyone would call them "well designed" classes.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-24, 12:31 PM
[Shrug] Fair enough, but this is a lot more single ability dependant than even the wizard. Barring the Druid, i can't think of anything that comes close...

While the druid and wizard are powerful, i'm not sure anyone would call them "well designed" classes.

The Wizard also plays Tiddly-winks with reality and a Druid is essentially 3 competent PCs at the same time. So I wouldn't personally say their lack of balance and good design comes from them being SAD.

Clerics can also become SAD.

Dragonfire Adepts are SAD, Incarnum classes can be and some are of the thought process that Warlocks are NAD.

Just to name some.

SamBurke
2011-12-24, 04:08 PM
So, overall notes:

Very Sad. Very, very, SAD as others have noted. This is not a bad thing, though I do suppose having some secondary stats is always nice. Still; this is melee.

My problem with this class is one, which spawns two issues: There are just too many abilities.

The reason this is a problem is, as I said, twofold. First (and minorly enough) that it just wreaks havoc on a character sheet. This thing gets around twenty abilities (individual abilities) by level 20. That's not counting feats. To me, that's just way, way, too many. And it's not that it doesn't have any scaling things... BECAUSE IT DOES. And STILL has too many other abilities. Most online Char Sheets are going to have around 20 slots for abilities, probably less. This class has 20, in addition to feats and stuffs. Too much.

Second, and more importantly: it just gets too much. Its main shtick (hitting things, and tanking) is pretty nice, and you distinguished it well from the Monk. But the other features (Being able to walk on leaves... SR. Fast Healing. Everything keyed off of Wisdom. Attacks out the wazoo.) just make the class a little.. too good.

I'd let it into a game, without hesitation, if it was compared to casters. As it is, I think it's a pretty strong T3, probably T2.

Which means you've done your job.

It's well written fluff-wise, and I like it. The abilities are original, and it's not just a Monk Remake.

Good Job, sir.

Noctis Vigil
2011-12-24, 05:33 PM
I must say, this is nice. I actually was thrilled you made a SAD melee class, for what it's worth, as I prefer melee to casting. All the abilities are useful, too. I can actually see myself using most of them. I must admit, though, with that extra damage they do, I'm a little leery of their full BAB. With that massive amount of extra damage, I'd suggest dropping to 3/4BAB. So they hit a little less, but do far more damage when they do.

Now, about the Wushu Styles: you seem to have them learning multiple styles, but I'm not sure about that as they aren't labeled "First Wushu Style" and such. I do like the Zui Quan style you have, and look forward to the others you may make, but I strongly recommend clarifying your table. Also, I'd suggest at least one of the styles focus on some form of armed combat, as opposed to purely unarmed combat. Personally, I'd like to see something that focuses on one hand empty and a one-handed weapon in the other, as this is a combat style that is sadly neglected in D&D, but is used in several forms of martial arts.

Also, small but big typo: under Chi Puppet, you say "they can not use their chi". I think you meant "they can now use their chi".

All in all, I would definitely play one of these. I've always had a fondness for the Monk and its remakes, and this has some Monk feel while still being entirely original in its execution and feel. Very well done, sir. Expect me to be watching this for new Wushu Styles and updates to comment on. :smallsmile:

gkathellar
2011-12-25, 08:50 AM
I like it. I like most of all that it gets pretty closely to what Youxia really means. I might suggest adding some feat support for other ability scores, or a PrC for "fallen" wulin who have turned away from the path of Youxia.

I'm tempted to brew a Neiquan Wushu Style for this.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-25, 08:03 PM
So, overall notes:

Very Sad. Very, very, SAD as others have noted. This is not a bad thing, though I do suppose having some secondary stats is always nice. Still; this is melee.

Yup, Melee rarely gets nice things and as far as I know, there are no actual Melee classes that can be made SAD without specific feats and multiclassing. Now there are plenty of SAD casters that can fill in that role..but..well...Casters doing melee better than Melee is why Casters are top of the heap.


My problem with this class is one, which spawns two issues: There are just too many abilities.

The reason this is a problem is, as I said, twofold. First (and minorly enough) that it just wreaks havoc on a character sheet. This thing gets around twenty abilities (individual abilities) by level 20. That's not counting feats. To me, that's just way, way, too many. And it's not that it doesn't have any scaling things... BECAUSE IT DOES. And STILL has too many other abilities. Most online Char Sheets are going to have around 20 slots for abilities, probably less. This class has 20, in addition to feats and stuffs. Too much.

Just finished taking care of this problem. Rolled up a lot of the class features into each other. Though now the table is getting bare. :smallbiggrin:


Second, and more importantly: it just gets too much. Its main shtick (hitting things, and tanking) is pretty nice, and you distinguished it well from the Monk. But the other features (Being able to walk on leaves... SR. Fast Healing. Everything keyed off of Wisdom. Attacks out the wazoo.) just make the class a little.. too good.

And I'm fine hearing all of that. I took what the Monk was completely lame at and did my best to make up something that was the polar opposite. So mission accomplished. :smalltongue:


I'd let it into a game, without hesitation, if it was compared to casters. As it is, I think it's a pretty strong T3, probably T2.

Does it really have enough power to be Tier 2? Because I am still fitzing around with the Wushu Styles and I don't know if I can pull them off the way I had planned and was looking at either removing them and maybe coming up with feat lines or turning them into kind of mini-Martial Disciplines.


Which means you've done your job.

It's well written fluff-wise, and I like it. The abilities are original, and it's not just a Monk Remake.

Good Job, sir.

Thank you. Thank you very much. :smallredface:


I must say, this is nice.

Thank you very much. :smallbiggrin:


I actually was thrilled you made a SAD melee class, for what it's worth, as I prefer melee to casting. All the abilities are useful, too. I can actually see myself using most of them. I must admit, though, with that extra damage they do, I'm a little leery of their full BAB. With that massive amount of extra damage, I'd suggest dropping to 3/4BAB. So they hit a little less, but do far more damage when they do.

Well, I fiddled around some with Wushu Strike. It's meant to be a unique approach to a replacement of the Monk's Unarmed Strike without being completely useless because of the fact enchanting unarmed strikes is very, very inefficient. I've scaled back the damage bonus for weapons so hopefully that fixes anything you had been leery at.

One thing that most likely isn't happening though is reducing the BaB. One of the Monk's problems was that it was trying to be a frontline fighter with 3/4 BaB. You can't really do that without buffing and other alternative methods.


Now, about the Wushu Styles: you seem to have them learning multiple styles, but I'm not sure about that as they aren't labeled "First Wushu Style" and such. I do like the Zui Quan style you have, and look forward to the others you may make, but I strongly recommend clarifying your table. Also, I'd suggest at least one of the styles focus on some form of armed combat, as opposed to purely unarmed combat. Personally, I'd like to see something that focuses on one hand empty and a one-handed weapon in the other, as this is a combat style that is sadly neglected in D&D, but is used in several forms of martial arts.

Request/Suggestion noted. Wushu Styles is the one piece of this class really left up in the air, so I'll see what I can do.


Also, small but big typo: under Chi Puppet, you say "they can not use their chi". I think you meant "they can now use their chi".

Thanks for the catch, even if I got rid of the flavor text for that.


All in all, I would definitely play one of these. I've always had a fondness for the Monk and its remakes, and this has some Monk feel while still being entirely original in its execution and feel. Very well done, sir. Expect me to be watching this for new Wushu Styles and updates to comment on. :smallsmile:

Thank you very much for your kind praise!


I like it. I like most of all that it gets pretty closely to what Youxia really means. I might suggest adding some feat support for other ability scores, or a PrC for "fallen" wulin who have turned away from the path of Youxia.

Thank you kindly.

I'll take your suggestions in mind and see what I can brew up when I have the time.


I'm tempted to brew a Neiquan Wushu Style for this.

Feel free, but like I've been saying, the Wushu Styles are the one class feature with the most uncertain future. I may just end up making them mini-Martial Disciplines after all.

Probably give them a progression of techniques to choose from but they select one style as their favored style and have to pick the majority from that. Or something. Still working on that idea.


Edit:

Has anyone heard of that feat Mullet mentioned? I can't seem to find it.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-25, 09:29 PM
Alright, I have an idea concerning what to do with Wushu Styles and I want your guys' opinion on it.

What if the Wushu Styles, instead of giving flat bonuses that scale and combat options based on the martial art they're meant to mimic, instead give a selection of tiered "stunts".

The class gets an amount of "stunts known" as they level and from these selected ones, at the beginning of each encounter, they select a smaller amount that are usable.

The class also gets one "Favored Style" and maybe it gives something like counting them as a higher level for those stunts or raising the DCs or something; the trade off being that they have to select at least one stunt from their Favored Style when choosing new "stunts" known and choosing the "stunts" they use for the combat.

I know it sounds a little like Maneuvers and Stances, but they wouldn't be expendable and you wouldn't benefit from only one at a time (for stunts that are like stances). The current Minor for Drunken Fist may be what a lower tiered stunt looks like.

Noctis Vigil
2011-12-25, 11:06 PM
OK, let's start with the changes to the class: I like it. You cleaned it up nicely without making it harder to read. Wushu Strike looks pretty good, but I don't think it would be out of line to make Wushu Strike with a weapon do 1/2 as many damage dice instead of 1/3, putting it on par with the Neili Blast at 20th level. But yes, that does help with some of my leeriness. Perhaps make one of the Wushu Styles increase the Wushu Strike damage with a specific weapon of the player's choice (probably from a short list of options)?

Which brings me to Wushu Styles...I must admit, I liked how you had it a great deal, and was sad when you said you wanted to change it. However, what you suggested sounds too much like maneuvers, something I have never liked, and actually ban in my games (for many of the same reasons I ban most new magic systems, in case you're wondering why). I strongly suggest against such an option; it feels too much like Monk fixes that just slap maneuvers on them to make it better. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's how it feels to me.

Suggestion for styles if you do change them: look at bloodlines. No seriously, this could be a really easy way to pull this off. Write a short list of abilities for each style; you get all the abilities for your main style, the first half of them for your secondary style, and the first quarter for your tertiary style.

I also wondered: why don't you get a style from level 1? Just seemed a little odd to me.

Personally, I think styles are the most important part of the class, as they give the class most of its flexibility, so I really look forward to how you do them.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-25, 11:28 PM
OK, let's start with the changes to the class: I like it. You cleaned it up nicely without making it harder to read. Wushu Strike looks pretty good, but I don't think it would be out of line to make Wushu Strike with a weapon do 1/2 as many damage dice instead of 1/3, putting it on par with the Neili Blast at 20th level. But yes, that does help with some of my leeriness. Perhaps make one of the Wushu Styles increase the Wushu Strike damage with a specific weapon of the player's choice (probably from a short list of options)?

Good to hear and I'll take those things into consideration and/or keep them in mind.


Which brings me to Wushu Styles...I must admit, I liked how you had it a great deal, and was sad when you said you wanted to change it. However, what you suggested sounds too much like maneuvers, something I have never liked, and actually ban in my games (for many of the same reasons I ban most new magic systems, in case you're wondering why). I strongly suggest against such an option; it feels too much like Monk fixes that just slap maneuvers on them to make it better. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's how it feels to me.

Not harsh at all. Like I had said, doing maneuvers is one of the last things I want to do and is my last option for this.

But while Drunken Fist was relatively simple to do (between reading a little on it and watching a few youtube vids), I found myself completely stonewalled on trying to make a mechanics adaption for Chuōjiǎo and I'm afraid that will happen with other styles while trying to adapt them.


Suggestion for styles if you do change them: look at bloodlines. No seriously, this could be a really easy way to pull this off. Write a short list of abilities for each style; you get all the abilities for your main style, the first half of them for your secondary style, and the first quarter for your tertiary style.

Can you expand more on what you mean by basing it on bloodlines?


I also wondered: why don't you get a style from level 1? Just seemed a little odd to me.

I felt that the first two levels was front-loaded enough. *shrugs*


Personally, I think styles are the most important part of the class, as they give the class most of its flexibility, so I really look forward to how you do them.

As do I. But I feel like how they are right now is just not enough.

Noctis Vigil
2011-12-25, 11:40 PM
Can you expand more on what you mean by basing it on bloodlines?

Certainly. If you look at this part of the SRD, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#creatingOtherBloodlines) you'll see the nice table they posted. When you make a bloodline, you create a list of 20 things to gain, one for each level. With a major bloodline, you get all 20 of them, one per level. With an intermediate bloodline, you get 10 of them, one every other level. With a minor bloodline, you get 5 of them, one every 4th level. Something along these lines is what I suggest here, instead of a maneuver-like system. Heck, I could write a couple up as examples if you want some suggestions.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-25, 11:43 PM
Heck, I could write a couple up as examples if you want some suggestions.

Meant more this. I know what bloodlines are. ^^;

PEACH
2011-12-26, 03:07 AM
Enlightened Armor (Ex)
A Youxia does use things such as steel or leather to protect their bodies, relying on their inner discipline and sense of the world to stave off those who would harm them.

A Youxia receives a bonus to their Armor Class equal to 1.5 times their Wisdom modifier (minimum 0). This bonus applies to Touch attack and when the Youxia is flatfooted. The Youxia loses this bonus when immobilized or helpess or if they carry heavier than a medium load.

I think this should say "does not" use such things, since this class isn't proficient with armor. There's also the problem that it doesn't actually require you to not wear armor, which is rather odd.


The Hand is Quicker than the Eye (Ex)
The reflexes and movements of the Youxia are honed to the speed of lightning, allowing them to rain down more blows than one not gifted such as themselves.

When making an attack action the Youxia may opt to use The Hand is Quicker than the Eye. The Youxia is then treated as if having used the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

At 6th level, the Youxia is treated as if having used the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat when they opt to use The Hand is Quicker than the Eye.

At 11th level, the Youxia is treated as if having used the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat when they opt to use The Hand is Quicker than the Eye.

The Youxia may substitute disarm, sunder and trip combat maneuvers in place of normal attacks as part of The Hand is Quicker than the Eye.

I'm confused. Why doesn't this just say "you get the two weapon fighting feats?" It seems like a convoluted way of giving them out, and there's no reason a TWF character wouldn't simply declare that they're using tHiQttE every time they attack.


Wushu Strike (Ex)
Youxia possess great skill and force above that of normal men and can put this knowledge to good use when wielding themselves or any object as a weapon.

At 1st level, and every two levels thereafter, the Youxia gains a 1d6 damage bonus on their Unarmed Strikes. This bonus modifies the damage dice the weapon deals, being added in addition to the normal damage dice. [For example: A 1st level Human Youxia would treat their Unarmed Strike as if it dealt 1d3+1d6 damage instead of 1d3.]

For every 3d6 of this bonus the Youxia gains a 1d6 damage bonus on any weapon they wield that they are proficient with.

This bonus is multiplied by a critical hit. Any item, feat or ability that would increase the effective level of a Monk's Unarmed Strike increases the effective level of a Youxia's Wushu Strike.

A Youxia additionally gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.

Damage bonuses are nice, but this doesn't synergize well with the fact you get an EWP, since it encourages unarmed striking (the minor bonus to other weapons isn't bad, but it's just kind of odd).


Evasion (Ex)
A Youxia's reflexes are so honed that they can evade harm that even the most nimble still suffer from.

If the Youxia makes a successful reflex save against any attack or effect that would normally deal half damage on a successful save, they instead take no damage. Evasion can only be used if the Youxia is wearing light or no armor. A helpless Youxia does not gain the benefit of Evasion.

Evasion is evasion. Always decent, never gamebreaking.


Insightful Strike (Ex)
Youxia have long mastered the art of seeking out a foe's most vulnerable points and assaulting them for the best results.

A Youxia may use his Wisdom score modifier in place of his Strength or Dexterity when making an attack roll or a combat maneuver check.

Pretty reasonable.


Path of Dim Mak
The Youxia begins a long and deep path towards understanding the use of their own chi, pressure points and the flow of life force of all natural (and some unnatural things) things for good and for ill.

At 2nd level, a Youxia must declare they are making a Jarring Blow before making an attack. If the attack is successful and the foe takes damage, they must make a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the Youxia's level+the Youxia's Wisdom modifier) or be stunned for one round.

This is an Extraordinary ability. Creatures normally immune to stunning (except Constructs) are not immune to this ability. The Youxia may use this ability a number of times per encounter equal to one half their Wisdom modifier (minimum 1).

I'm a little bit concerned about the nova potential of this, since you can easily just guarantee a stun on anything you full attack after you've gotten multiple attacks. Also, why specifically constructs, and not, say, undead, or anything else that seems to have as much of a reason to not get stunned? What about creatures without anatomy?


[
*]At 7th level, as a standard action that invokes an attack of opportunity, the Youxia does several quick jabs to themselves or an adjacent ally. The target then gains Fast Healing equal to one quarter their total hit dice (minimum 1) for a number of rounds equal to 1+the Youxia's Wisdom score modifier.

A target can not benefit from this ability more than once every three hours. This is an Extraordinary ability and Constructs are immune to its effects. The Youxia can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1/2 their total levels in this class+their Wisdom modifier.

This is really an *incredibly* weak effect. In combat, it sucks. Out of combat, you're essentially a really poor substitute for either a cheap wand or a belt of healing. You'd never actually use this in combat, because it combines the usual healing problem of being too low to matter for a standard action with the additional problem of being over a huge period of time.



At 10th level, as a standard action, the Youxia makes a melee touch attack against an adjacent foe. The foe must make a successful Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the Youxia's level+the Youxia's Wisdom modifier) or be paralyzed for a number of minutes equal to 1/2 the Youxia's level+their Wisdom modifier.

This ability affects creatures normally immune to paralysis. This is an Extraordinary ability and Constructs are immune to its effects. The Youxia can use this ability once per encounter per two points of Wisdom modifier they possess (minimum 1).


I'd just say one half wisdom modifier. Anyway, a (near) at will SoD at 10th level is pretty good. Not much more to say; it's basically just a SoD.


At 14th level, as a standard action that invokes an attack of opportunity, the Youxia does several quick jabs to themselves or an adjacent ally. The target then can make a new saving throw against any one negative effect currently affecting them at its original DC. They also gain a bonus to the saving throw equal to half the Youxia's Wisdom modifier.

A target can not benefit from this ability more than once every three hours. This is a Supernatural ability and Constructs are immune to its effects. The Youxia can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1/2 their total levels in this class+their Wisdom modifier.

This is like a poor man's standard action using Iron Heart Surge, and is also just incredibly minor. It's not awful, but I don't think I'd have any problems letting this be a swift action and still consider it pretty reasonable.


At 15th level, once per day, the Youxia may announce one attack as being a Quivering Palm strike. If the attack is successful and the foe takes damage from the attack, the Quivering Palm is successful. From that point on the Youxia, for a number of days equal to the Youxia's level, they may kill the target simply by willing it so. The target must make a Fortitude Save (DC 10+1/2 the Youxia's level+the Youxia's Wisdom modifier) or be slain instantly as their body breaks down from the inside out.

This is a Supernatural ability and Constructs are immune to its effects.

Well, it's as part of an attack, so it's slightly better than Paralyzing strike in that respect, but since it's also a death effect (I think? The fact Death Ward separates Death spells, which I assume means [Death] spells, and Death Effects, which just appears to be any Fort Save or Die effect), that means it can be stopped by a fourth level spell, which is pretty weaksauce.


At 18th level, as a standard action that invokes an attack of opportunity, the Youxia may make a melee touch attack against an adjacent foe. If the attack is successful the target must make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 the Youxia's level+the Youxia's Wisdom modifier). If the target fails the save, the Youxia dictates how the target will take their next turn. The Youxia has access to any abilities or tactics the target has but must decide exactly how the target takes their next turn as soon as the target fails its save. The target will then follow these dictated actions to the best of its ability. A creature is immune to this ability for 24 hours after being affected by it (regardless if it makes its saving throw or not).

This is a Supernatural ability and Constructs are immune to its effects. The Youxia may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 1/2 their total levels in this class+their Wisdom modifier.

This should be Mind Affecting. It's very powerful, but reasonable enough for the level its at.


Dance of the Leaf (Ex)
A Youxia can move their bodies like a falling leaf, moving with the wind to slow and lessen the damaging impact of a fall.

As long as the Youxia is conscious and not helpless they take no damage from falling.

Very minor.


Fast Movement (Ex)
Youxia are fleet of foot, moving at speeds that far outstrip most mortal creatures.

At 3rd level, a Youxia gains a +10 bonus to their base land speed. This bonus increases by 10 feet for every three levels the Youxia possesses in this class, to a maximum of +60 at 20th level.

Reasonable. There should be flight gained at some point, though.


Wushu Style
A Youxia defines themselves not only by their potency and their adherence to the tennets of Xia but also by the style of Wushu that they master their bodies to flow with.

At 3rd, 8th and 13th level, the Youxia chooses one of the Wushu styles (listed below), gaining the abilities granted by the style as noted on the table above.

Unless noted otherwise, all abilities granted by a style are Extraordinary abilities.

Drunken Master looks very good, though the fact is that the moderate ability doesn't make much sense (due to invoking grapple rules and then messing with them further), and the fact its abilities are actually probably better early on than later.

Secret Arts of Qi (Su)
The Youxia, continuing down the path to true Inner Peace, have learned how to fashion and wield their chi to rival even the mightiest mystic armaments.


[spoiler] At 4th level and every four levels after, the Youxia gains a +1 enhancement bonus to their unarmed strikes and their AC. They may elect to instead gain a weapon or armor special quality equal to the bonus they would normally receive. Once this decision is made it and the enchantments chosen can only be changed when the Youxia gains another such bonus.

At 4th level, a Youxia's unarmed strikes count as magic weapons for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction and attacking incorporeal foes. At 10th level, a Youxia's unarmed strikes are treated as Adamantine for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction and attacking foes. At 16th level, a Youxia's unarmed strikes are treated as Good for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction and attacking foes.

Free handwraps (I *think* that enchanted unarmed attacks were in some book as handwraps, can't recall) and, assuming you burn a feat or just buy light armor with no armor penalty, 5 points of free armor bonuses to go with your armor! This isn't bad, but it shouldn't really be a replacement for gear.

[c
olor=#FF6347]Fortified Essence (Ex)[/color]
The Youxia's chi enters a state of hyperactivity and responds in stronger force to the Youxia's discipline and force of will, granting them incredible resilience and fortitude to dangers mundane and supernatural.

At 5th level, the Youxia uses their Wisdom score modifier in place of their Constitution when determining bonus hit points and when calculating their Fortitude save. This effect is retroactive to all previous Hit Dice the Youxia possesses.

At 6th level, the Youxia gains Spell Resistance equal to 11+their total levels in their class+1/2 their Wisdom score modifier.

At 8th level, the Youxia is immune to diseases, poisons, fatigue and exhaustion. This immunity does not apply to supernatural diseases or poisons.

At 17th level, the Youxia no longer takes penalties from aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that they have already taken stay in place and they still accrue bonuses as normal and the Youxia still dies when their time is up.

I hope they're venerable before they hit 17th level, since they're super SAD for wisdom at this point. I assume that's the intent, but this class is getting very, very SAD.


Pierce the Heavens (Ex)
The movements of a Youxia defy the realm of the natural, being so full of speed and power that it seems they can even take flight.

As a full-round action, the Youxia may use Pierce the Heavens. They may then move a total distance equal to twice their base land speed. This total distance may cross any form of terrain or element as long as the Youxia begins and end their movement on a solid surface and has some form of surface to touch down upon at least halfway through the movement. [For example, a 6th level Youxia wishes to cross a 100 foot wide gorge. They use Pierce the Heavens, stepping off a floating leaf halfway through the distance before coming down on the other side.]

The Youxia may make a full attack routine once during Pierce the Heavens and may also use The Hand is Quicker than the Eye.

Well, I guess ghetto flight is OK; they can now hit stuff about a hundred feet in the air, depending on what level they're on and their other movespeed bonuses. Can this travel through walls? It should probably have the teleport descriptor if so.


Improved Evasion (Ex)
A Youxia's reflexes become even more finely honed.

The Youxia now takes only half damage on a failed reflex save against an attack, ability or effect that normally allows half damage on a successful reflex save.

Improved evasion, still evasion-y.


Lips of Creation (Su)
As the Youxia works towards obtaining true inner peace they begin to feel the life pulse of all things around them and understand what they wish to convey.

The Youxia can now speak with and understand any living creature.

This is a really minor thing to get at 10th.


Nieli Blast (Su)
The first steps of mastering chi has been discovered by the Youxia as they can now form their very energy into a potent weapon.

As a standard action, the Youxia can make a ranged touch attack out to 60 feet with a range increment of 30 feet. This ranged touch attack deals force damage as shown on the table above. A foe struck by this attack must make a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the Youxia's level+the Youxia's Wisdom modifier) or be treated as if bull rushed by a creature one size category larger than the Youxia. Use the Youxia's Combat Maneuver bonus to resolve this attempt, using the more favorable size modifier.

The Youxia may use this ability once per encounter per two points of Wisdom modifier they possess (minimum 1).

This is kind of awful. The bull rushing isn't bad, I guess, but the damage is horrible and by the time you get it, flight is so common you can't really use the "bull rush into the pit" strategy. Maybe if there are floating mines?



Inner Peace
The Youxia has finished their long, arduous journey at last. They have found inside of themselves a true state of peace and nirvana, becoming a master of their destiny and art.

The Youxia gains the following benefits:
Once per round, a Youxia may deflect any ranged attack, ability or effect aimed at themselves. They may choose a suitable target in range, using the original roll (if there is one). This ability can only be used on ranged attacks, breath weapons, spells that target the Youxia specifically or spells that cause an AoE effect. The Youxia must be conscious and aware of the attack or ability to deflect it.
The Youxia no longer has a limitation on how often they may use their Nieli Blast.
The Youxia no longer has a maximum age.
The Youxia may now use the ability granted by Path of Dim Mak at 15th level once per encounter rather than once per day.
The Youxia may now move five times their base land speed when using Pierce the Heavens.

The once per round deflect is odd, and I'm not sure how "aimed at themselves" works; does it apply to AoEs that are centered on other targets but hit them? How does it work if they deflect it so that they're still in the AoE, or if they deflect an attack that's just self centered (deflecting, say, Holy Word?). Still wish they had flight, though.


The Code of Xia

A Youxia must always be of Good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if they ever knowingly and willfully commit an act that goes against the tenants of Xia.

A Youxia must be honorable by upholding justice and aiding the poor and helpless. A Youxia must use their considerable might not only for personal gain but for the greater good. The Youxia need not submit to any higher authority but must do their best to maintain social justice. A Youxia must repay any benefactor who has given them deeds of grace or favors, but only if the benefactor is themselves righteous and honorable. A Youxia must always seek vengeance to bring a villain to justice, but must also practice forgiveness, passion and mercy. A Youxia may only take a life if there is no other option in their mind. A Youxia must always be loyal and obedient to the wishes of their Master (if they have one). A Youxia will only settle disputes between themselves and any ally or peer in the confines of a one on one duel.

This moral code is just weird, especially because at least one of their abilities (quivering palm) is basically designed to break it; "never kills unless absolutely necessary" doesn't work too well with an adventuring group in general, but it certainly doesn't work when you've got an ability that lets you willingly kill somebody long after you've attacked them, from far out of battle. I'm also worried about "only settles disputes in the confines of a one on one duel" since that's kind of absolutely insane unless you more specifically define disputes. It also kind of implies that social justice wouldn't be upheld, since quite a few disputes are legal matters, not things you settle over a street fight or honorable duel.

I'm not a fan of "good only" classes in general, so you can take my words with a grain of salt here, but this code of honor has some oddities (a class with no method of dealing nonlethal damage beyond the usual and a delayed kill attack being unable to kill unless absolutely necessary, the vagueness of "the greater good"), and some crazy (only settles disputes in a duel) that need to be fixed.

Overall, this is... basically a somewhat better monk (which I guess was the point). I mean, really, it's a bit better than a monk, and I'd play it over a monk, but it's *really* not all that different from a monk besides getting a few upgrades and (sort of) losing flurry for two weapon unarmed fighting. It's better at using it's unarmed attacks, it's more SAD, and it can actually move around and fight at the same time, but in the end, it is probably still solidly T5, though maybe a higher T5 class than before (or a low T4, it also depends on the bonuses it gains from Wushu styles). It's got some pretty decent save or dies, but they're all on melee attacks that, with decent optimization, can already be Save or Dies on hit anyway just because of pure damage output, and it's not bringing a lot of utility or innate ways to land them into the fray.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-26, 11:54 AM
I think this should say "does not" use such things, since this class isn't proficient with armor. There's also the problem that it doesn't actually require you to not wear armor, which is rather odd.

Thanks for the grammar catch. And that's intentional. By letting you ape the Swordsage by paying a growing feat tax you have the option to be a Youxia who wears magic armor instead of the poor Monk who has to pay through the nose to enchant bracers of armor or something similar.




I'm confused. Why doesn't this just say "you get the two weapon fighting feats?" It seems like a convoluted way of giving them out, and there's no reason a TWF character wouldn't simply declare that they're using tHiQttE every time they attack.

Feats can be used for qualifiers and chaos shuffle shenanigans and other such things. There are probably other reasons that more knowledgeable folks can think of and mention, but those are the two that jump out to me (other than the mindset that giving out a ton of free feats can be a bad thing).

You don't happen to know where the True Two-Weapon Fighting feat is mentioned, do you? Mullet mentioned but I can't find it anywhere.


Damage bonuses are nice, but this doesn't synergize well with the fact you get an EWP, since it encourages unarmed striking (the minor bonus to other weapons isn't bad, but it's just kind of odd).

The free EWP is for flavor reasons so I don't mind the fact it doesn't synergize in this small way. And the problem with the Monk is that it never properly encouraged you to use Unarmed Strikes over an actual magic weapon. It was always a subpar, inefficient, expensive alternative. I may be scaling the weapon side back from 1/3 to 1/2 though, as Noctis suggested.


I'm a little bit concerned about the nova potential of this, since you can easily just guarantee a stun on anything you full attack after you've gotten multiple attacks.

Assuming you have a high enough Wisdom score of course. When you first get the ability chances are you can only use it twice per encounter and it only lasts a single round. By the time you have a high enough Wisdom score to be spamming it, well...chances are that there are either comparable options open to PCs or things have broken down from the casters. And everything else on the table probably lasts more than 1 round.


Also, why specifically constructs, and not, say, undead, or anything else that seems to have as much of a reason to not get stunned? What about creatures without anatomy?


My reasoning behind having Constructs immune to abilities of the Youxia but nothing else is that a Youxia isn't attacking nervous systems or stopping muscle movements or any of that with its abilities. It's attacking the network that houses and supports the Chi (or lifeforce or chakra or what have you) of the creature. So Undead would still have this network, it's just corrupted or fueled by negative energy or what have you.

Constructs on the other hand are inorganic, non-living creatures that tend to be animated by outside forces and never had this network to begin with.

Now I know there are questionable case by case exceptions on each side (such as Flesh Golems or Revived Fossils) but I felt a blanket immunity for one and blanket removal of immunity for the other was just easier and less complicated.



This is really an *incredibly* weak effect. In combat, it sucks. Out of combat, you're essentially a really poor substitute for either a cheap wand or a belt of healing. You'd never actually use this in combat, because it combines the usual healing problem of being too low to matter for a standard action with the additional problem of being over a huge period of time.

You...are honestly the first person I've ever heard call Fast Healing "weak". Ever. o.o



I'd just say one half wisdom modifier. Anyway, a (near) at will SoD at 10th level is pretty good. Not much more to say; it's basically just a SoD.

For whatever reason, I didn't think the wording looked right that way. I can see if I can fiddle with it.



This is like a poor man's standard action using Iron Heart Surge, and is also just incredibly minor. It's not awful, but I don't think I'd have any problems letting this be a swift action and still consider it pretty reasonable.

Hm. That's a thought. Anyone else want to weigh in on this suggestion?



Well, it's as part of an attack, so it's slightly better than Paralyzing strike in that respect, but since it's also a death effect (I think? The fact Death Ward separates Death spells, which I assume means [Death] spells, and Death Effects, which just appears to be any Fort Save or Die effect), that means it can be stopped by a fourth level spell, which is pretty weaksauce.

Actually, it's not a Death effect unless it says it is a Death effect in its rules text. Unless I missed something somewhere.


This should be Mind Affecting. It's very powerful, but reasonable enough for the level its at.

I'd add that in except I'd then add in rules text clarifying that most things aren't immune to it anyway. :smalltongue:

So unless it's really necessary, I feel it can be left out.


Very minor.

Yup. But that's not a bad thing since Slow Fall was absolutely awful.



Drunken Master looks very good, though the fact is that the moderate ability doesn't make much sense (due to invoking grapple rules and then messing with them further), and the fact its abilities are actually probably better early on than later.

Wushu Styles are still a work in progress.




Free handwraps (I *think* that enchanted unarmed attacks were in some book as handwraps, can't recall) and, assuming you burn a feat or just buy light armor with no armor penalty, 5 points of free armor bonuses to go with your armor! This isn't bad, but it shouldn't really be a replacement for gear.

The only thing that I can think of like that were knuckle dusters for Pathfinder and they ended up errata-ing that the enhancements and enchantments on the knuckle dusters didn't carry over to Unarmed Strikes.

As is, in both 3.5 and Pathfinder, there is no efficient, cost effective way to keep a character who's primary weapon of choice is UAS and who wears no armor on par with those who wield regular weapons and wear armor.

So for Youxia, I have no beef with cutting down on their reliance on some gear.



I hope they're venerable before they hit 17th level, since they're super SAD for wisdom at this point. I assume that's the intent, but this class is getting very, very SAD.

Aging is more a fluff thing than anything. In the confines of a regular game that doesn't span years IRL, this ability doesn't see much use. And if you're starting out at level 17...well...you probably already have a Wisdom score in the 30s so what's another 3 points for Venerable? Not like it really unbalances things at that level of play with this class.

And as I've said; there are plenty of casters who get to be SAD, why should melee have to go through convoluted builds and use obscure feats when casters can do it out of the box?


Well, I guess ghetto flight is OK; they can now hit stuff about a hundred feet in the air, depending on what level they're on and their other movespeed bonuses. Can this travel through walls? It should probably have the teleport descriptor if so.

No, they can't teleport. But I will be updating and re-writing Pierce the Heavens to clean it up and make it more clear, but that'll probably need to wait till after I get off work tonight.



This is a really minor thing to get at 10th.

Eh, it's just filler really. Not supposed to be awesome and wow-y.


This is kind of awful. The bull rushing isn't bad, I guess, but the damage is horrible and by the time you get it, flight is so common you can't really use the "bull rush into the pit" strategy. Maybe if there are floating mines?

Nieli Blast will also be getting an update, but it is Force damage, one of the least guarded against in the game.



The once per round deflect is odd, and I'm not sure how "aimed at themselves" works; does it apply to AoEs that are centered on other targets but hit them? How does it work if they deflect it so that they're still in the AoE, or if they deflect an attack that's just self centered (deflecting, say, Holy Word?). Still wish they had flight, though.

I'll add in some clarification and rules text when I get a chance.




This moral code is just weird, especially because at least one of their abilities (quivering palm) is basically designed to break it; "never kills unless absolutely necessary" doesn't work too well with an adventuring group in general, but it certainly doesn't work when you've got an ability that lets you willingly kill somebody long after you've attacked them, from far out of battle. I'm also worried about "only settles disputes in the confines of a one on one duel" since that's kind of absolutely insane unless you more specifically define disputes. It also kind of implies that social justice wouldn't be upheld, since quite a few disputes are legal matters, not things you settle over a street fight or honorable duel.

It's pulled straight from the source material, which in of itself denotes a somewhat contradiction between the violence of Wuxia and how many protagonists tried to attain Buddhist ideals.

The use of Quivering Palm doesn't equate unnecessary killing anymore than any other weapon or technique. It's just a tool in their arsenal and obviously one being pulled out for what it matters. Contextually they could be using it against a foe that they have deemed slaying as the only resort but who they also know they won't be able to dispatch right then and there. So when the heinous villain has escaped and thinks themselves safe to continue to prey on the innocent justice can still find them.

The one on one duel only applies to disputes between those individuals who the Youxia considers allies or peers, as is mentioned in the code. So social justice doesn't generally enter the equation.


I'm not a fan of "good only" classes in general, so you can take my words with a grain of salt here, but this code of honor has some oddities (a class with no method of dealing nonlethal damage beyond the usual and a delayed kill attack being unable to kill unless absolutely necessary, the vagueness of "the greater good"), and some crazy (only settles disputes in a duel) that need to be fixed.

Covered some of that above.

And just because mercy should be tried before violence doesn't mean they're mindless pacifists.

An example that comes to mind, and deride me for using it if you wish, is Goku's fight with Frieza from Dragonball Z. Goku gave Frieza leniency and mercy twice even though as a genocidal maniac tyrant (who had just killed Goku's best friend) he deserved nothing but an excruciating death.

He brought him back from the brink of death (which he had caused through his own arrogance) and gave him the power necessary to escape the planet that he himself was causing to detonate.

But as soon as Frieza stabbed him in the back, letting his pride and arrogance outweigh that mercy and chance for escape, Goku had no qualms over stamping Frieza out. (Mind you Goku thought Frieza was dead at the time.)

Though I guess I can see if I can add in something that lets them deal nonlethal damage without penalty.


Overall, this is... basically a somewhat better monk (which I guess was the point). I mean, really, it's a bit better than a monk, and I'd play it over a monk, but it's *really* not all that different from a monk besides getting a few upgrades and (sort of) losing flurry for two weapon unarmed fighting. It's better at using it's unarmed attacks, it's more SAD, and it can actually move around and fight at the same time, but in the end, it is probably still solidly T5, though maybe a higher T5 class than before (or a low T4, it also depends on the bonuses it gains from Wushu styles). It's got some pretty decent save or dies, but they're all on melee attacks that, with decent optimization, can already be Save or Dies on hit anyway just because of pure damage output, and it's not bringing a lot of utility or innate ways to land them into the fray.

Anyone else want to agree with him on this? Because I don't see this class as being Tier 5.

gkathellar
2011-12-26, 07:21 PM
Feats can be used for qualifiers and chaos shuffle shenanigans and other such things. There are probably other reasons that more knowledgeable folks can think of and mention, but those are the two that jump out to me (other than the mindset that giving out a ton of free feats can be a bad thing).

You don't happen to know where the True Two-Weapon Fighting feat is mentioned, do you? Mullet mentioned but I can't find it anywhere.

Trying to account for Chaos Shuffle is silly — it's a stupid trick, and in a campaign that uses it this class isn't going to blow anyone out of the water just because it trades out four bonus feats. And people can qualify with them as written anyway, because "equivalents" like the ranger's Combat Style count as feats for purposes of qualification.

Perfect Two Weapon Fighting is in the ELH, and on the SRD. It's one of those Epic Feats that has no business being an epic feat.


I may be scaling the weapon side back from 1/3 to 1/2 though, as Noctis suggested.

I support Noctis in this. The only perfectly-by-RAW way to use those TWF feats alongside unarmed striking is to mix a one-handed weapon with unarmed attacks (which, coincidentally, fits the wuxia image exactly).


Hm. That's a thought. Anyone else want to weigh in on this suggestion?

+1 for swift action healing Dim Mak.


It's pulled straight from the source material, which in of itself denotes a somewhat contradiction between the violence of Wuxia and how many protagonists tried to attain Buddhist ideals.

You should tone it down, I think. Not all youxia in the stories are Buddhist monks, dedicated Buddhists or even Buddhist at all (the Wudang school is usually cast as Taoist, for instance) — and of those that are, the stories they're set in don't always take such a harsh attitude towards killing guys. In fact, killing someone as a matter of honor or simple opposition is usually par for the course in jiang hu. There's a classic poem that's kind of the definitive statement of what wuxia is about:


For ten years I have been polishing this sword;
Its frosty edge has never been put to the test.
Now I am holding it and showing it to you, sir:
Is there anyone suffering from injustice?

In other words: you don't devote yourself to a life of enforcing justice and become a master swordsman so you can not kill people.


It also kind of implies that social justice wouldn't be upheld, since quite a few disputes are legal matters, not things you settle over a street fight or honorable duel.

Historically, this is wildly incorrect. For much of human history in much of the world, judicial combat was a primary means of settling civil disputes.


An example that comes to mind, and deride me for using it if you wish, is Goku's fight with Frieza from Dragonball Z.

Goku is a pretty poor model for a youxia, if only because he doesn't care about honor in the slightest. He might make for a pretty good Buddhist monk, but you should allow for different takes.


Anyone else want to agree with him on this? Because I don't see this class as being Tier 5.

It's not. I could see mid-to-high Tier 4 argued, but I'm inclined to say middle-ground Tier 3.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-26, 09:56 PM
Trying to account for Chaos Shuffle is silly — it's a stupid trick, and in a campaign that uses it this class isn't going to blow anyone out of the water just because it trades out four bonus feats. And people can qualify with them as written anyway, because "equivalents" like the ranger's Combat Style count as feats for purposes of qualification.

It's not the only reason, just one of the ones I could think of. As I said, they're definitely folks out there more knowledgeable on why it's bad and can tell you why more succinctly.


Perfect Two Weapon Fighting is in the ELH, and on the SRD. It's one of those Epic Feats that has no business being an epic feat.

Is that what he meant? I'll look into it.




I support Noctis in this. The only perfectly-by-RAW way to use those TWF feats alongside unarmed striking is to mix a one-handed weapon with unarmed attacks (which, coincidentally, fits the wuxia image exactly).

I'm not sure what you mean here.


+1 for swift action healing Dim Mak.

I'm on it. Will see some changes and buffing to the earlier healing mechanic too.



You should tone it down, I think. Not all youxia in the stories are Buddhist monks, dedicated Buddhists or even Buddhist at all (the Wudang school is usually cast as Taoist, for instance) — and of those that are, the stories they're set in don't always take such a harsh attitude towards killing guys. In fact, killing someone as a matter of honor or simple opposition is usually par for the course in jiang hu. There's a classic poem that's kind of the definitive statement of what wuxia is about:



In other words: you don't devote yourself to a life of enforcing justice and become a master swordsman so you can not kill people.

See, this is exactly the kind of input I need. I'm such a complete newb with Wuxia. :smallsigh:




Goku is a pretty poor model for a youxia, if only because he doesn't care about honor in the slightest. He might make for a pretty good Buddhist monk, but you should allow for different takes.

Damn my time constraints when posting that example. :smallsigh:

I meant to include that I was using Goku not as a Wuxia example but an example of someone who is of a peaceful demeanor and who does not try to kill his opponent and is a really good guy, but will kill someone as a last resort.


It's not. I could see mid-to-high Tier 4 argued, but I'm inclined to say middle-ground Tier 3.

And hopefully with a reworking to a few things and the Wushu styles, the arguments for Tier 4 will be hushed. :smalltongue:

Noctis Vigil
2011-12-27, 11:05 AM
This is way too flexible for tier 5. I'm no expert, but this guy gets a good skill list and good skillpoints, abilities to make him mobile, lots of striking power, an assortment of things his strikes can do, a ranged force blast, and even spell reflection once a round. Definitely tier 3, possibly 2, but not sure. Let's see how Styles work out before slapping a tier on it, though.

And yes, fast healing is pretty much useless, no one in my group prepares spells or uses abilities that give it unless they can't use anything else and we really need the heals. I'd make it fast healing equal to 1/2 their hit dice for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the Youxia's level plus their Wisdom modifier, or some other such boost in power, because it's honestly pretty wimpy.

Still working on the Styles thing, my spare time is pretty limited around the holidays. I have one about half done, will post it ASAP.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-27, 12:05 PM
This is way too flexible for tier 5. I'm no expert, but this guy gets a good skill list and good skillpoints, abilities to make him mobile, lots of striking power, an assortment of things his strikes can do, a ranged force blast, and even spell reflection once a round. Definitely tier 3, possibly 2, but not sure. Let's see how Styles work out before slapping a tier on it, though.

That was my opinion on the matter too


And yes, fast healing is pretty much useless, no one in my group prepares spells or uses abilities that give it unless they can't use anything else and we really need the heals. I'd make it fast healing equal to 1/2 their hit dice for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the Youxia's level plus their Wisdom modifier, or some other such boost in power, because it's honestly pretty wimpy.

That's exactly what I was planning to do. :smallbiggrin:


Still working on the Styles thing, my spare time is pretty limited around the holidays. I have one about half done, will post it ASAP.

You mind PMing or emailing it instead of posting it? I'd rather discuss that one on one then bog down the thread with it. If it's all the same to you of course.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-27, 01:58 PM
Made the changes to Path of Dim Mak.


Now, let me see if I get Perfect Two Weapon Fighting right.


At 16th level, with that and using their Unarmed Strikes, the Youxia would get an attack routine that was...

14/14/9/9/4/4/-1/-1?

Noctis Vigil
2011-12-27, 04:58 PM
Bugger, now I see the bit about PMing him. OK, Bendraesar, PMing...

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-28, 12:34 PM
Finally remembered to remove that clause from the Code of Xia.

I'll probably be working on updating Nieli Blast and possibly consolidating and reworking Fast Movement, Dance of the Leaf and Pierce the Heavens.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-29, 12:12 PM
Increased the ratio for the Wushu Strike and reworked Nieli Blast some.



Now, let me see if I get Perfect Two Weapon Fighting right.


At 16th level, with that and using their Unarmed Strikes, the Youxia would get an attack routine that was...

14/14/9/9/4/4/-1/-1?

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-29, 01:59 PM
Now, as I had said, I have no personal issues with this being a SAD melee class. At all.

But for the sake of making alternate variants for the class, I changed two SAD features to add half Wisdom to what they originally had Wisdom flat replacing.

And with that change made, we now also have 5 feats exclusive for this class. Feats that allow you to deviate away from playing a Wise Master and key your class abilities off of any of the six ability scores!

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-29, 02:01 PM
Now, as I had said, I have no personal issues with this being a SAD melee class. At all.

But for the sake of making alternate variants for the class, I changed two SAD features to add half Wisdom to what they originally had Wisdom flat replacing.

And with that change made, we now also have 5 feats exclusive for this class. Feats that allow you to deviate away from playing a Wise Master and key your class abilities off of any of the six ability scores!

Trying this again since the forum didn't update properly.

Mulletmanalive
2011-12-29, 03:07 PM
Levels are still missing from most of the class feature descriptions.

I find i interesting that you could have an AC of 10 + Dex + 1.5 x Wis + Heavy Armour + 1/4 of level + whatever enhancements are on the armour + everything else. Enlightened armour should probably be an armour bonus...

The changes do indeed make the class a little less SAD, while keeping Wisdom incredibly important. The amended table is also much easier to use.

My other thoughts are mostly that the amended class has some features that really need types and clarificaion as to whether they stack with things like magic items.

The Wushu styles need clarifying how the additional abilities are gained; are they gained a given number of levels after the thing is selected [so the nomenclature should be Wushu Style III (Minor)] or are you just obliged to select an ability of the given rank each time it is indicated [which works as it's currently written on the table]?

The Drunken Fist thing is nicely put together, though it seems like a Constitution driven ability.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-29, 03:16 PM
Levels are still missing from most of the class feature descriptions.

I'll get right on that.


I find i interesting that you could have an AC of 10 + Dex + 1.5 x Wis + Heavy Armour + 1/4 of level + whatever enhancements are on the armour + everything else. Enlightened armour should probably be an armour bonus...

At most I'd probably just add some clarification that the Enhancement bonus to AC from Body of Qi doesn't stack with the enhancement bonus from any magic armor.

The rest doesn't bother me much; if they want to blow 3 feats to be able to use Enlightened Armor alongside of a suit of Heavy Armor, that's their choice with their build. Feats are a precious commodity after all.


The changes do indeed make the class a little less SAD, while keeping Wisdom incredibly important. The amended table is also much easier to use.

Thanks.


My other thoughts are mostly that the amended class has some features that really need types and clarificaion as to whether they stack with things like magic items.

Other than Enlightened Armor, what comes to mind?


The Wushu styles need clarifying how the additional abilities are gained; are they gained a given number of levels after the thing is selected [so the nomenclature should be Wushu Style III (Minor)] or are you just obliged to select an ability of the given rank each time it is indicated [which works as it's currently written on the table]?

The Drunken Fist thing is nicely put together, though it seems like a Constitution driven ability.

Wushu Style is in the middle of a major revamp that I'm getting advice on from Vigil. I'll let you know when its up and running.


Edit:

And is Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting the feat you meant?

Mulletmanalive
2011-12-29, 03:46 PM
I'll get right on that.

Cool


At most I'd probably just add some clarification that the Enhancement bonus to AC from Body of Qi doesn't stack with the enhancement bonus from any magic armor.

The rest doesn't bother me much; if they want to blow 3 feats to be able to use Enlightened Armor alongside of a suit of Heavy Armor, that's their choice with their build. Feats are a precious commodity after all.

Or a one level dip into fighter. Or the cheap proficiency armour quality that's in APH


Thanks.

np


Other than Enlightened Armor, what comes to mind?

I misread Secret Arts of Qi. Not too bad otherwise.


Wushu Style is in the middle of a major revamp that I'm getting advice on from Vigil. I'll let you know when its up and running.

K

Edit:

And is Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting the feat you meant?

Yes.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-29, 03:48 PM
Or a one level dip into fighter.

Code of Xia prevents that.



Yes.

Did I get the numbers right on how many attacks that'd net you?

Mulletmanalive
2011-12-29, 04:04 PM
I make the routine +18/+18/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3 with all of the feats.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-29, 06:03 PM
I make the routine +18/+18/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3 with all of the feats.

And that's at Level 20.

Alright, I'll add in Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting then.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-29, 06:10 PM
Alright, the levels gained at have been added and Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting was added to The Hand is Quicker than the Eye.

Madara
2011-12-30, 11:41 AM
Wow, that is a lot of skillpoints. I'd definatally take a first level dip in this over fighter.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-30, 12:07 PM
Wow, that is a lot of skillpoints. I'd definatally take a first level dip in this over fighter.

You can't dip this class. The Code of Xia wallops you hard for doing that.

Madara
2011-12-30, 12:13 PM
You're right, it can't mutli-class at all.... even in a reasonable way. Doesn't that limit builds? It cuts down cool comboes/concepts. Maybe after a certain level, you could start multi-classing?

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-30, 12:19 PM
You're right, it can't mutli-class at all.... even in a reasonable way. Doesn't that limit builds? It cuts down cool comboes/concepts. Maybe after a certain level, you could start multi-classing?

In some ways, I agree with Pathfinder's mindset that you shouldn't ever be encouraged to multi-class out of a base class, even to go into a PrC. It should be interesting, engaging and fun to play from level 1 to level 20.

Right now the Youxia is still in the works and the Wushu Styles, when their next stage of existing is finished, should add in the variety and concepts for the class.

But I could see adding in some dual-progression feats that can be taken after level 6 and the Fallen Youxia PrC that'll be made eventually will allow multi-classing.

Madara
2011-12-30, 12:48 PM
I can see that it would be nice to go 1 to 20, and that it isn't lacking abilities that would make you want to. But what if you multi-classed to fill out a concept. Like Ranger for an archer or the weapon master prestige class?
But with the feats, I think thing would work nicely.

Tanuki Tales
2011-12-30, 12:53 PM
I can see that it would be nice to go 1 to 20, and that it isn't lacking abilities that would make you want to. But what if you multi-classed to fill out a concept. Like Ranger for an archer or the weapon master prestige class?
But with the feats, I think thing would work nicely.

Well, "Weapon Master" is one of the ideas for the Wushu Styles, but what exactly does this class lack to allow it to fill the Ranger archetype?

It has no problems with ranged combat, it has Stealth and Survival as class skills and you should have the skill points to spare for Handle Animal. Take Track and you're right there.

Tanuki Tales
2012-01-01, 03:43 PM
Another update done. Check the change log for specifics.

And Happy New Year's all!

Tanuki Tales
2012-01-01, 09:16 PM
Well, the reworking of the Wushu Styles is finished as it currently is.

Yes, I know that the abilities for Drunken Fist are lifted from the Drunken Master prestige class, but I felt they were succinct for the class and they're not too far off from the old abilities anyways.

But now the class has 7 faux-dead levels on the table. Should I try to fill those in?

eftexar
2012-01-01, 10:39 PM
I wouldn't fill those levels in with anything else. The class is fairly powerful as is and already has a quite a few options.
Anything else might bog the class down or might lead to eventually creating the overflowing chart problem of the monk (I swear my eyes bleed when I look at it).
It takes the idea behind the monk, makes it unique and makes it usable. This is nice, because I've seen too many people take the monk and just throw in extra abilities to patch it up or just improve what it has.
The only thing I worry about is the damage they can add to strikes they make. Maybe half it? Actually what would be sort of cool is to allow a fortitude save to half the extra damage (it would sort of go with the idea of channeling chi into the attack) instead.
And nieli blast is fun.

Tanuki Tales
2012-01-01, 10:53 PM
I wouldn't fill those levels in with anything else. The class is fairly powerful as is and already has a quite a few options.
Anything else might bog the class down or might lead to eventually creating the overflowing chart problem of the monk (I swear my eyes bleed when I look at it).
It takes the idea behind the monk, makes it unique and makes it usable. This is nice, because I've seen too many people take the monk and just throw in extra abilities to patch it up or just improve what it has.
The only thing I worry about is the damage they can add to strikes they make. Maybe half it? Actually what would be sort of cool is to allow a fortitude save to half the extra damage (it would sort of go with the idea of channeling chi into the attack) instead.
And nieli blast is fun.

I meant more either knocking some things back and spreading them out or maybe tiering out a few things to fill space or putting in a few bonus feats from a closed list or some combination of all that to fill space.

You know, I seem to see a pattern of "Tone Wushu Strike Down!" followed by "Buff Wushu Strike up!" starting. So...I'll keep it as is. :smalltongue:

eftexar
2012-01-01, 11:40 PM
I wouldn't worry about it. The spacing seems fine to me.
Anyways here's some math for thought (if it's legible, do what you will with this knowledge, hopefully I didn't screw anything up):
Two-Weapon (with weapon focus tree and power attack):
(1d6 + 4 + 4) * 3 = 32, + (5 * 3) = 48 [32-48 (1 Crit: 43-59)]
and with two-handed tree (+3 to total 6 feats)):
(1d6 + 4 + 4) * 4 = 44, + (5 * 4) = 64 [44-64 (1 Crit: 55-75)]
Semi-Optimized with 2 minor feats:
Two Weapon Rend (PH2) = 1d6 + 4 [3 atk > 39-55 (1 Crit: 46-62) / 4 atk > 51-71 (1 Crit: 62-75)]
Expert Tactician (CompAdv) = + 2 * 4 [3 atk > 47-63 (1 Crit: 54-70) / 4 atk > 59-79 (1 Crit: 78-83)]
Damage Tally w/ nocrit = (1atk > 16) 32 to 79
Damage Tally w/ onecrit = (1atk > 21) 43 to 83

Two-Handed (with weapon focus, a couple of damage boosting feats, and power attack):
(1d6 + 8 + 4) * 2 = 30, + (10 * 2) = 50 [30-50 (1 Crit: 41-61)]
Semi-Optimized with 2 minor feats:
Greater Weapon Specialization (PH2) = +2 * 2 [34-54 (1 Crit: 45-65)]
Expert Tactician (CompAdv) = + 2 * 4 [42-62 (1 Crit: 61-81)]
Damage Tally w/ nocrit = (1atk > 15) 30 to 62
Damage Tally w/ onecrit = (1atk > 20) 41 to 81

Average Spell Damage by damage die (15 and 20 being the most common maxims) [maximized within brackets]
10d6 = 30 [30*]
15d6 = 45 [60*]
20d6 = 60 [90*]
25d6 = 75 [120*]
*assumes die are one step lower due to metamagics +3 spell level, resulting in a lower level spell being cast (though numbers could reach one step higher with 150 at 25d6 with certain spells)

Average Spell Damage by damage die (15 and 20 being the most common maxims) upon a successful save (or with improved evasion/mettle)
10d6 = 15 [15*]
15d6 = 22 [30*]
20d6 = 30 [45*]
25d6 = 32 [60*]
*assumes die are one step lower due to metamagics +3 spell level (though numbers could reach one step higher with 150 at 25d6 with certain spells)

Compare to Sphere of Ultimate Destruction:
40d6 = 120 [0*]
*assumes die are one step lower due to metamagics, making ultimate destruction generally un-maximizable, but with sudden maximize (if I remember how this feat functions properly) it may reach 240 damage, which if I am correct is the highest spell damage in the game.

Average weapon damage totals with +5d6 wushu with it:
Two Two-handed power attacks:
Damage Tally w/ nocrit = (1atk > 31) 62 to 139
Damage Tally w/ onecrit = (1atk > 36) 73 to 143

Three one-handed power attacks (two weapon fighting):
Damage Tally w/ nocrit = (1atk > 30) 75 to 152
Damage Tally w/ onecrit = (1atk > 45) 86 to 171

And tiring of math I estimate unarmed totals would probably be between 120 to 250. I used the median roll of each die instead of the actual average (so for d6 used 3 instead of 3.5), but the comparison should remain relatively similar. All critical totals assume a multiplier of 2.
EDIT > altered for math problem with sphere of ultimate destruction

Tanuki Tales
2012-01-02, 10:23 PM
Your math looks sound from a cursory glance. But straight damage is a Tier 4 pony trick and you're comparing what is done at level 19/20...so...yeah...

Tanuki Tales
2012-01-04, 02:25 PM
A new Wushu Style is up!

Jade Dragon
2012-01-04, 11:01 PM
First, I would've gone with "There is no secret ingredient."

Second, Po is NOT 20th level.

Third, I'd rather make a feat called Snatch Siege Weaponry then try to shoehorn in an ability that barely makes sense to those who haven't watched the movie.

Tanuki Tales
2012-01-04, 11:06 PM
First, I would've gone with "There is no secret ingredient."

Second, Po is NOT 20th level.

Third, I'd rather make a feat called Snatch Siege Weaponry then try to shoehorn in an ability that barely makes sense to those who haven't watched the movie.

Hehe, at least someone noticed that. :smalltongue:

Tanuki Tales
2012-01-11, 04:09 PM
Three new feats added.

Ridai
2012-01-16, 01:36 PM
Just wanted to say that I really, really like this class, even more so due to the little things like the code, the 6th level Qinggong ability as well as making TWF with a combination of (improvised) weapons and unarmed strikes viable (thus allowing for more dynamic approaches to fights). I didn't mind how SAD the class was before, but it still seems fine as is.

I'm looking forward to seeing more Wushu Styles and whatever else you want to add to this class. :smallsmile:

Soliloquy
2012-01-17, 05:13 PM
I feel that it is somewhat overpowered, as they attack almost as many times as a monk with four feats would, for more damage, and they fall better.

as for the paralysis ability, i think it would work better if you needed a feet for constructs and the like.

Overall I feel that this class is great, and I like that you didn't limit it to lawfuls like the monk. (gestalt with monk for most powerful unarmed combat and speed):smalltongue:

gkathellar
2012-01-17, 06:59 PM
The class is looking good. I like Mantis style a lot.


I feel that it is somewhat overpowered, as they attack almost as many times as a monk with four feats would, for more damage, and they fall better.

Obligatory comment about how monks suck and are dramatically underpowered.

Jade Dragon
2012-01-17, 08:48 PM
Obligatory comment about how monks suck and are dramatically underpowered.

Obligatory elaboration.

1. They're a warrior class. With 3/4 BAB. And d8 hit die. And take a penalty on attack rolls to use their main combat feature. And can't get their main weapon enchanted as easily (and even then, it's more expensive if it costs money, and if it doesn't cost money, it costs XP).

2. Their main and secondary combat features (Flurry of Blows and Fast Movement) are incompatible.

3. They fill the same role as ranger (warrior/skill monkey), but ranger has more skill points and a better attack bonus, the class features don't even come close to making up for it.

4. They're MAD. They need high strength for attack and damage, right? Oh, but they also need more constitution than a regular warrior type to make up for their low HP. Alright, that's okay, it's the same as any other melee character. Oh, but they also need dexterity for AC and skills! And they need wisdom to make up for armor and also for Stunning Fist! And they're supposed to be a skillmonkey, so there's no way they can have intelligence lower than ten!

Tanuki Tales
2012-01-19, 10:52 AM
Just wanted to say that I really, really like this class, even more so due to the little things like the code, the 6th level Qinggong ability as well as making TWF with a combination of (improvised) weapons and unarmed strikes viable (thus allowing for more dynamic approaches to fights). I didn't mind how SAD the class was before, but it still seems fine as is.

I'm flattered, thank you. ^^

I didn't mind either, but I had to alter and dial it back some in order to have it running off other stats being viable.


I'm looking forward to seeing more Wushu Styles and whatever else you want to add to this class. :smallsmile:

The Wushu Styles are turning out to be the hardest part sadly. I have to make it so that each Style is not only adding viable, unique combat options that the class doesn't already grant, that it's not already mostly covered by another style but that it also stays true to the actual Martial art it is based upon.


I feel that it is somewhat overpowered, as they attack almost as many times as a monk with four feats would, for more damage, and they fall better.

as for the paralysis ability, i think it would work better if you needed a feet for constructs and the like.

Folks have covered this bit. :smallbiggrin:


Overall I feel that this class is great, and I like that you didn't limit it to lawfuls like the monk. (gestalt with monk for most powerful unarmed combat and speed):smalltongue:

Well, while you could gestalt this with a monk...hm....

The speed bonuses would stack since this class doesn't give it as an enhancement bonus. And the unarmed strikes would basically just give you a bigger weapon. Otherwise, the Monk only adds a few bells and whistles on. All the real meat and potatoes of that gestalt would be from my Youxia.


The class is looking good. I like Mantis style a lot.

Thank you very much.

Really? I was afraid it wouldn't measure up to Drunken Fist since I was making it from scratch while that was mostly lifted from existing rules for the style.

@Jade: I think I will be reworking the Inner Peace capstone and turning the one option into a series of feats, as you mentioned.

gkathellar
2012-01-19, 11:16 AM
The Wushu Styles are turning out to be the hardest part sadly. I have to make it so that each Style is not only adding viable, unique combat options that the class doesn't already grant, that it's not already mostly covered by another style but that it also stays true to the actual Martial art it is based upon.

I'm no expert, but I've got four years of Taiji and have talked with and gotten to know a lot of other martial artists from others styles, so if you need a consult, I'd be happy to help. (There are probably better people for this on this very board, mind.)


Really? I was afraid it wouldn't measure up to Drunken Fist since I was making it from scratch while that was mostly lifted from existing rules for the style.

I'm not sure it quite measures up, but I like it all the same. Being more critical:
If the AC bonus remains the only feature of the first ability, it should be at least as good as Zui Quan — a deflection bonus that you can lose as a dodge bonus is worse than a dodge bonus. Maybe expand it to include some kind of grappling skill? Northern Praying Mantis has some very sophisticated trapping and opening techniques.
Powered Strike needs to be a little stronger. Flat damage bonuses are of limited utility.
Tanglang Gou, Opportune Strike and Nerve Strike look fine.

Tanuki Tales
2012-01-19, 11:54 AM
I'm no expert, but I've got four years of Taiji and have talked with and gotten to know a lot of other martial artists from others styles, so if you need a consult, I'd be happy to help. (There are probably better people for this on this very board, mind.)


I'll definitely give you a shout if I need any help.



I'm not sure it quite measures up, but I like it all the same. Being more critical:
If the AC bonus remains the only feature of the first ability, it should be at least as good as Zui Quan — a deflection bonus that you can lose as a dodge bonus is worse than a dodge bonus. Maybe expand it to include some kind of grappling skill? Northern Praying Mantis has some very sophisticated trapping and opening techniques.
Powered Strike needs to be a little stronger. Flat damage bonuses are of limited utility.
Tanglang Gou, Opportune Strike and Nerve Strike look fine.

Well, I wanted Zui Quan to be unique with it's dodge bonus, that's why I gave Tang Lang a quicker progression for a lower bonus (and I just realized that it didn't actually work out that way so I lowered Zui Quan's bonus to AC by 1).

I've updated both Gap Creation and Powered Strike; what do you think?

gkathellar
2012-01-19, 02:52 PM
Gap Creation is a nice patch.

Entrapping Strike might be a bit too much as a free action used on every attack — maybe make it swift? It's not as if the Youxia is really doing anything with his swift actions anyway, so a swift action would make it once/round without being prohibitive.

Tanuki Tales
2012-01-22, 03:59 PM
Updates ahoy!

Ridai
2012-02-04, 08:52 AM
I'm liking the capstone, can't really comment on how useful it is due to too little high level gameplay experience.

Also, quick bump. Hoping to see a third Wushu Style so the class could be played completely all the way through. :smallsmile:

Tanuki Tales
2012-02-04, 10:34 PM
It's definitely on my To-Do List; it's just the Kickstarter has been eating all my attention lately.

Tanuki Tales
2013-07-18, 02:57 PM
So, been over a year, but I'm back to finish this little child of mine. Unfortunately, I could never come up with other Wushu Styles, so I've decided to just give them Style feats as bonus feats instead. The class was already a solid Tier 3, so they really didn't need too much more.

Now to check to see if I ended up with any dead levels....

Tanuki Tales
2013-07-19, 06:17 AM
I've reworked The Hand is Quicker than the Eye and I've added some more multi-classing feats. It looks like I do have about three dead levels and some weak levels in the class where you only get a small thing (like +1 enchantment bonus or an extra attack). Thoughts on remedying this?