Energy Resistance [3.5, feat, PEACH]

[Sgt. Cookie]

Energy Resistance
Through sheer fortitude you can shake off damage from energy sources.

Prerequisites: Base fort save +3
Benefit:Upon gaining this feat, select two energy types. You then gain resistance 5 per two hit die you have to those two energy types. Whenever you gain two more hit die, you increase the resistance by an additional 5.

When you get 18HD (Or select this feat after level 18) the resistances become total immunity.

Positive energy and Negative energy DO NOT gain immunity, they instead cap at 50 resistance at 20 HD.

The resistance, and subsequent immunity, is Extraordinary.

You may select two energy types from the following list: acid, cold, electricity, fire, sonic, positive energy or negative energy.

This feat may only be taken once.

Special: If the character already has a racial or class based energy resistance, then they may not select that energy type when they take this feat.

Normal: Characters who do not have this feat must rely on racial or class based energy resistance.

[NeoSeraphi]

In my experience, it's always better to clearly list the options of your feat. I suggest you add the following text to the first feat:

You may select three energy types from the following list: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic (If you're going to allow sonic resistance with this feat).

[Sgt. Cookie]

Alright, I'll add the energy types. That had slipped my mind.

[bloodtide]

The feat chain just looks wrong. It basically just gives automatically energy resistance. And three energy types per feat too. And by about 15th level a character can have 30 resistance to six energy types?

It might unbalance the game too more if everyone has energy resistance to everything. It will make energy attacks less useful, maybe even useless.

[bobthe6th]

thats 6 out of 7 feats... all but one of a characters FEATS!
damn right it should be awesome. now a barbarian gets power attack... and thats it. no cleave, no thunderous rage, no frenzy.

not every build has 6 open feat slots, and most characters won't get the chain twice. the chain on its own might be doable... but 3 feats is a large investment.

[Ashtagon]

There are already feats directed at heat/cold energy resistance, which are basically 5 points, one energy type only, and they are the second step on a chain that requires a race-specific advantage to even step onto (see It's Hot Outside and It's Cold Outside).

So something that duplicates the concept already exists mechanically.

I'd question whether these feats are believable as exceptional abilities (as opposed to being supernatural), although I will doubtless get accused of saying fighters can't have nice things for that sentiment.

Whether it is balanced or not is an open question. Feats are all over the place in terms of power, so it depends on your chosen balance point.

[bobthe6th]

could represent massive toughness (heroes tend to not die instently when hit by lightning bolts, and tend to take a wile to melt in acid...), endurance to heat/cold, or a strong life force(negitive energy).

from a balance standpoint, making it Su lets it be striped away with an AMF. as you can get nearly the same thing with a magic item(also gone with an AMF) it would make sense that putting a feat into it should have an advantage.

[Yitzi]

from a balance standpoint, making it Su lets it be striped away with an AMF.

Yes, but most powerful energy attacks don't work in an AMF.

[bobthe6th]

a fair counter point, but lava/acid bath/snowstorm ect.

[Glimbur]

Yes, but most powerful energy attacks don't work in an AMF.

Due to silliness in the rules, Orb spells can be cast into an AMF. They're some of the standard spells for showing off how powerful direct damage can be with sufficient metamagic mitigation.

Breath Weapons are another common type of energy damage, but they are Su and by my reading of the rules they go away in AMFs.

Feats are expensive.

[Yitzi]

Due to silliness in the rules, Orb spells can be cast into an AMF.

So then we're agreed that this should have the same rules regarding such things as Orb spells; the only question is whether that should be done by making this extraordinary or fixing the Orb spells.


Breath Weapons are another common type of energy damage, but they are Su and by my reading of the rules they go away in AMFs.

Indeed.

[bobthe6th]

still lava

[NeoSeraphi]

still lava

If your character is actually dropping into a pit of lava that is inside an anti-magic field, which has a 10 foot radius that is centered on the caster, one of two things is happening. Either you are fighting a balrog, a great wyrm red dragon, or a fire elemental with spellcasting, or the volcano itself is actually a 15th level cleric. Either way, I'm pretty sure it's happening solely because your DM wants your character dead, and at that point, claiming your resistance is extraordinary and thus not suppressed isn't going to save you.

[bobthe6th]

but still fun. lava in the radius of the tower!

ok the argument is getting a little silly. I just like Ex over Su....

[Yitzi]

If your character is actually dropping into a pit of lava that is inside an anti-magic field, which has a 10 foot radius that is centered on the caster, one of two things is happening. Either you are fighting a balrog, a great wyrm red dragon, or a fire elemental with spellcasting, or the volcano itself is actually a 15th level cleric. Either way, I'm pretty sure it's happening solely because your DM wants your character dead, and at that point, claiming your resistance is extraordinary and thus not suppressed isn't going to save you.

For that matter, even without the anti-magic field, 30 resistance doesn't make that much difference against lava. It doesn't quite halve the damage; at least against a fireball it means that you don't need Evasion.

To tell the truth, this ability actually isn't so strong, as it has the same flaw as Toughness and Weapon Specialization: As you level up, it naturally becomes weaker. (Even non-scaling feats usually stay the same.) By level 14 when you can get Greater Energy Resistance, 30 resistance isn't all that great (certainly not worth 3 feats).

[Sgt. Cookie]

After reading through the replies, the general feeling I'm getting is that three types is too much, and that the feat chain is too expensive for too little benefit.

How about these ideas to make this chain better:

Don't have a chain, maybe only one feat but with a higher fort save.

Scale the energy resistance better, perhaps +5 per two hit die?

Drop the number of energy types down to two.

State this this feat may only be taken once.

[Volthawk]

For that matter, even without the anti-magic field, 30 resistance doesn't make that much difference against lava. It doesn't quite halve the damage; at least against a fireball it means that you don't need Evasion.

To tell the truth, this ability actually isn't so strong, as it has the same flaw as Toughness and Weapon Specialization: As you level up, it naturally becomes weaker. (Even non-scaling feats usually stay the same.) By level 14 when you can get Greater Energy Resistance, 30 resistance isn't all that great (certainly not worth 3 feats).

Any value of Fire Resistance gives total immunity to lava. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#lavaEffects)


An immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity to lava or magma.

[Yitzi]

Any value of Fire Resistance gives total immunity to lava. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#lavaEffects)

Missed that, thanks.

NeoSeraphi's point still holds, though.

[eftexar]

Really. My group just sort of ignored that rule. It really doesn't make sense that an orb of fire, which does less damage than lava, can deal less damage than falling into a volcano because you have 1 point of fire resistance.
Anyways these are pretty powerful. I would say if you halve the resistances and add three more feats to raise it, if you still want 30 to be available, that would be fair. Or just limit each feat beyond the first to raising one type at a time.

[Siosilvar]

Honestly, 5/15/30 resistance to two or three elements as an [Ex] is about where feats should be in the game. The overwhelming majority are not, but you don't compare homebrew classes to CW Samurai and core Fighter, so why compare feats to Weapon Focus and the +2/+2s?

YMMV, but I prefer my feats to be on the level of Knowledge Devotion and Power Attack if I'm only going to get 7 of them.

[Yitzi]

Really. My group just sort of ignored that rule. It really doesn't make sense that an orb of fire, which does less damage than lava, can deal less damage than falling into a volcano because you have 1 point of fire resistance.

I think that the idea is that the lava damage is really 20d6 instances of 1 fire damage each, for whatever reason.

That said, "any fire/cold/electric resistance prevents all damage from mundane sources of such", with "mundane" defined as "extraordinary, or a spell that does not allow SR; supernatural effects are judged as if they were spells", would not be a bad rule.


Honestly, 5/15/30 resistance to two or three elements as an [Ex] is about where feats should be in the game. The overwhelming majority are not, but you don't compare homebrew classes to CW Samurai and core Fighter, so why compare feats to Weapon Focus and the +2/+2s?

This is arguably weaker than Weapon Focus and the +2/+2s. At least those give the same change to your chance of success at level 20 as they do at level 1; 5 resistance is significant at low levels but negligible (except for lava) at level 20.

[NeoSeraphi]

Yitzi is right. Sgt. Cookie, you need to make this one feat, and have it automatically upgrade itself at 6th and 12th HD, and possibly have it grant immunity at 18th.

[Sgt. Cookie]

OK, how does this revision look?

[NeoSeraphi]

Gaining resistance and immunity to positive and negative energy is broken. For starters, you'd completely destroy an undead's one major weakness, and they have so many freaking resistances that we need that one major weakness. It's a cleric's time to laugh at the incantatrix and say "Aw, is someone's maximized empowered twinned split rayed orb of cold not working on the big bad lich? Step aside, nerd, and let a real Tier 1 caster handle this".

And really, would you really take that away from the cleric, by giving every lich the chance to become immune to heal? For shame, Sgt. Cookie, for shame.

[Sgt. Cookie]

And really, would you really take that away from the cleric, by giving every lich the chance to become immune to heal? For shame, Sgt. Cookie, for shame.

Yes, yes I would. :smallcool:

[seriousness] Will stating that the positive and negative energy never become immunities, capping at a semi-reasonable-yet-still-a-pain-in-the-cleric's-arse number, such as 50 resistance at 20 HD, work?

[NeoSeraphi]

Yes, yes I would. :smallcool:

[seriousness] Will stating that the positive and negative energy never become immunities, capping at a semi-reasonable-yet-still-a-pain-in-the-cleric's-arse number, such as 50 resistance at 20 HD, work?


50 resistance would be perfectly acceptable, yes.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Alright, added the clause about the positive and negative energy. Is the wording clear enough?

[Debihuman]

I still think giving out special abilities as feats is a bad idea. It diminishes the Special Abilities and makes them less special.

Debby

[Siosilvar]

I still think giving out special abilities as feats is a bad idea. It diminishes the Special Abilities and makes them less special.

Debby

So, how about that Incarnum, eh?

[Debihuman]

Never touch the stuff :-)

However, none of the "Feats" in the Magic of Incarnum give out special abilities as far as I can tell. I may have missed something there. Also, you can only use some of those only once per day, which at least is a limiting factor. Also, the prerequisites of the feats include having some special abilities. If you mean something specific, please advise.

Debby

[Volthawk]

Never touch the stuff :-)

However, none of the "Feats" in the Magic of Incarnum give out special abilities as far as I can tell. I may have missed something there. Also, you can only use some of those only once per day, which at least is a limiting factor. Also, the prerequisites of the feats include having some special abilities. If you mean something specific, please advise.

Debby

How about Shape Soulmeld and the Open Chakra feats? Shape Soulmeld (impulse boots) and Open Least Chakra (feet) gives you Evasion.

Going outside of Incarnum, Martial Stance can get you Hunter's Sense, which gives Scent. Bind Vestige lets you get Darkvision from Amon. Combind with Practiced Binder, it also lets you get fire resistance off Aym, or Uncanny Dodge from Paimon (if you also get Improved Binding).

[NeoSeraphi]

Jaws of Steel gives you a natural attack, Dreamsight Elite gives you a continuous see invisibility effect for on average a minute per day, though if you're specializing it can be closer to an hour. Both of those are in Races of Eberron.

Let's see, what else? Well in Core there's Stunning Fist, which is almost like a class feature, but it's a feat. A few times per day, you smash face with a saving throw, and it has a scaling DC. That is definitely a special attack option.

Centaur Trample from Races of the Wild gives centaur creatures a Trample-lite ability.

[Siosilvar]

Never touch the stuff :-)

However, none of the "Feats" in the Magic of Incarnum give out special abilities as far as I can tell. I may have missed something there. Also, you can only use some of those only once per day, which at least is a limiting factor. Also, the prerequisites of the feats include having some special abilities. If you mean something specific, please advise.

Debby

Shape Soulmeld (anything), basically, though for most of the neato effects you'll need to take Open X Chakra as well.

Choice ones that are on the "special abilities" list:
Anything that gives you a natural weapon; these are usually binds.
Resistance to fire, cold, or electricity - including fast healing from fire via Pheonix Belt.
Spellward Shirt for spell resistance.
Gloves of the Poisoned Soul for a poison attack.
Apparation Ribbon gives temporary incorporeality when bound to throat.
Basilisk Mask gives low-light vision and darkvision.
Necrocarnum Circlet gives blindsight, but only for undead.
Shadow Mantle gives short-range darkness and blindsight when bound.
Sphinx Claws can give pounce when bound.