View Full Version : Nerevarine vs Miko Miyazaki

2012-01-02, 03:25 PM
Which one of these heroes make a great Nice Job Breaking it Hero.
Destroy the Heart of Lorkhan in Morrowind which caused oblivion crisis. The death of the emperor and his illegitimate son in Oblivion causes the Empire to crumble, skyrim got civil war, and the dragons to return
Miko Miyazaki
Destroy the sapphire and causes Azure City to fell and disrupt the reality

2012-01-02, 03:37 PM
The Nerevarine (apparently?) got retconned by the horrible writing staff of Bethesda (seriously, final boss fight and you don't get to lay the smack down on him?). Whereas Miko deliberately made a decision in her madness and zeal to do so because it seemed the best idea at the time.

On the other hand, Miko was never a heroic figure, while the Nerevarine was always supposed to be one. Further food for thought, if Miko had not interfered, Redcloak and Xykon might have been offed and if not permanently removed from the board, much inconvenienced by Soon standing vigil over the red cloak and phylactery so that no new bearer could come get it or allow Xykon to fully respawn, and if the Nerevarine hadn't interfered, the known world would have been more or less destroyed by plague and a mad demigod.

2012-01-02, 03:50 PM
Which one of these heroes make a great Nice Job Breaking it Hero.
Destroy the Heart of Lorkhan in Morrowind which caused oblivion crisis.

O.o what.
That's not what happened at all. The Nerevarine had nothing to do at all with the oblivion crisis, which was caused by assassins from a deadra cult.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2012-01-02, 07:56 PM
Yeaaaah, that's not what happened with the Nerevarine. At all.

However, the Nerevarine did inadvertently cause the destruction of Morrowind, in that MORROWIND PLOT and also LORE SPOILERS destroying the Heart of Lorkhan depowered the ALMSIVI, meaning that Human/Merish sacrifice was required to keep Baar Dau/the Ministry of Truth from crashing into Vivec (city), as Vivec (warrior-poet) no longer had the divine (sorcerous) power to keep it up.
Of course, technically they could have kept Baar Dau up indefinitely, had not one of the sacrifices', who was being kept in the Ministry, as her soul was slowly sucked out of her (nonfatally?), been rescued by her lover, depriving Baar Dau of the power needed to keep it aloft, crashing it into the city. Cue Red Mountain erupting, cue Black Marsh invading in the chaos.
Even the last bit has more to do with the Empire's lost power to the Aldmeri Dominion, which all stems back to the Oblivion Crisis, which was not at all linked to the Nerevarine.

And then there's the whole debate over the true nature of Prophetic Figures. I am of the belief that the Nerevarine did not become the Nerevarine until it became clear that the proto-Nerevarine fit the prophecy. Basically, in fitting the prophecy, you BECOME the prophecy.

2012-01-02, 10:17 PM
Actually, the Nerevarine does have some responsibility for the Oblivion Crisis. Basically, the Amulet of Kings is not the only thing which stops Daedra from passing from Oblivion to Mundus. There are a number of what are called Towers in Tamriel, each of which possesses a Stone. The combination of Tower and Stone helps to stabilize Mundus. Red Mountain was a Tower, with the Heart of Lorkhan as a stone, just as White-Gold Tower (the Imperial City, or at least the Palace) has the Amulet of Kings as its stone (Source: Nu-Mantia Intercept (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept)). That source suggests that the Oblivion Crisis could not have occurred had Red Mountain still been acting as a Tower, but I'm personally not so sure. It also says White-Gold is a particularly special tower.

Elder Scrolls lore aside, I think Miko easily made the bigger mistake.

Not destroying the Heart would have allowed Dagoth Ur to complete Akulakhan, the Second Numidium. Numidium was created by the Dwemer, and is linked to their disappearance. It was rebuilt by Tiber Septim, although he lacked the Heart of Lorkhan and was forced to use an object called the Mantella to power it. He then used it to conquer the Aldmeri Dominion. Even when not powered by the Heart, Numidium still screwed with time enough that it still "pops" into existence now and again, fighting mages of the Aldmeri Dominion. The Aldmeri Dominion did, however, manage to defeat it. I'm pretty sure that a Numidium powered by the Heart of Lorkhan would not go down so easily.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2012-01-02, 10:44 PM
I confess I had not read the Nu-Mantia Intercept letters before now. Reading them now. I was only introduced to the Tower/Stone concept in the reddit thread about the conspiracy surrounding the bug-jars and the summoning circle/map link, and such-like. http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/nklj2/you_know_those_runes_on_the_lids_of_the_bug_jars/?sort=top
But I didn't know where they were getting the information about the Tower/Stone concept.

The basic idea, is that the Thalmor are attempting to destroy all of the towers to unbind existence, and thus allow the Mer-souled to ascend and the humans to simply disappear from existence. Red Tower and it's stone are destroyed, White-Gold Tower and it's stone are destroyed, Orchalc was destroyed with the continent of Yokuda, Crystal-like-Law on Summerset Isle was apparently destroyed in the Oblivion Crisis, or is under the control of the Thalmor, Tree-Sap is under Thalmor control, and if the Khajit strange Tower/Stone relationship which I don't understand works like they say, then it's also under Thalmor control (are the Manes the stone?), and Brass Tower, or Numidium, is cast out of time. That leaves Snow-Throat Tower, in Skyrim, and it's unknown Stone.