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Kyberwulf
2012-01-05, 08:29 PM
Hello Everyone, Greetings and Salutations.

So, This question keeps me up at night sometimes. I know, I know a weird question indeed to pop in your head at one a.m. (I think everyone has that one question that pops into their head, such as.. Why does the toast always land on the Buttery-goodness side down......) Mine as such is this.

Who would win in a fight, Blade or Buffy.

I don't know why it does but it pops into my head. Currently there are a couple scenarios going through my head.

1. There is something they both need in a warehouse on the docks. They need it for some backround crap envolving saving the world. They have to battle their way through waves of Vampires.

2. They reach the thing and have to fight over the thing.

The Rules of the Fight are simple.
1. No HELP from any outside sources. No Whistler, no Scooby-gang.
NONE ... NO HELP. I cannot stress this enough.
2. Any weapons either one has used from their sources are allowed.
3. The Fight takes place in a Warehouse on a pier.
4. No teaming up with each other to by-pass the fight.

Anderlith
2012-01-05, 08:34 PM
Buffy, she is trained better, & fights harder. Plus shes been killed before & it didn't take, so it's not like Blade killing her would stop her from winning.

Eakin
2012-01-05, 08:39 PM
My gut says Blade. The both have supernaturally enhanced strength/reflexes/senses, but Blade usually goes on patrol with katanas, guns, and assorted anti-vamp tools and tricks. Buffy usually brings a pointy stick. Unless she brought that rocket launcher along "just in case" I feel like she's going to be outclassed

Also Buffy is much more reliant on her friends for backup. I'm not even sure she'll make it through a "wave of vamps" even without Blade interfering.

I hope that helps resolve your insomnia problems

EDIT:

Buffy, she is trained better, & fights harder. Plus shes been killed before & it didn't take, so it's not like Blade killing her would stop her from winning.

She only got to come back from dying because of the unusual circumstances under which she died. Getting sliced in half would be a one way ticket to the other side.

pffh
2012-01-05, 08:40 PM
Which Buffy are we talking about? Season 1? Season 7? Or maybe the comics?

But yeah my money is on Buffy. She's stronger, faster and better trained then Blade.

Kyberwulf
2012-01-05, 08:40 PM
I hate that logic. Buffy died.... and came back. ergo she is better.

She had HELP, she didn't climb out of the depths of Hades to lay the smack down. Xander had to do CPR on her to bring her back. and the Second death she DIED. HER FRIENDS RIPPED her out of heaven.

Her coming back to life is negated in this situation cause she had help. She doesn't get that here.

Traab
2012-01-05, 08:46 PM
Blade. He is faster, stronger, more ruthless than buffy. He is pure warrior, while buffy has always been the reluctant fighter. It may be different in the comics, I wouldnt know, I never read them, but it was a common theme throughout the tv series that buffy doesnt want to be the slayer, she doesnt want her powers, she is uncomfortable with the source of them, and would rather be doing anything else than saving the world. Blade on the other hand WANTS to be a hunter, he enjoys getting out there and carving up vamps in far larger swarms than buffy has ever managed. Just watch the bloodbath rave scene in the first movie. Buffy can barely survive a half dozen vamps at once, he carved his way through DOZENS and made it look easy. He has better toys, better training, and a superior mindset.

*EDIT* Blade also has automatic weapons. LOTS of automatic weapons.

Kyberwulf
2012-01-05, 08:59 PM
Yes, he has automatic weapons. He also never uses them in a duel. In most of the one on one fights I have seen, he never employs them against a Foe he deems worthy. Much like a Yautja in that respect. (Curious side note. Who would win in that one. Yautja or Blade. must contemplate that.)

Forum Explorer
2012-01-06, 12:39 AM
Yes, he has automatic weapons. He also never uses them in a duel. In most of the one on one fights I have seen, he never employs them against a Foe he deems worthy. Much like a Yautja in that respect. (Curious side note. Who would win in that one. Yautja or Blade. must contemplate that.)

Arguably the duels he either has:

Lost access to his guns

Feels he doesn't need the guns so why waste ammo?

Guns wouldn't work anyway

Brother Oni
2012-01-06, 04:51 AM
Unless Buffy can dodge bullets, my money's on Blade.

Let's make the assumption that Buffy is better than him in melee. As soon as he figures out he can't take her in a hand to hand fight (since he wears body armour that will buy him the few seconds he needs to survive this realisation), he backs off and shoots her.

If Buffy is capable of dodging automatic weapons fire from a trained marksman at close distances (<20m), then she'll win regardless of how good either of them are at hand to hand combat, as her physical capabilities would just be ridiculous.


(Curious side note. Who would win in that one. Yautja or Blade. must contemplate that.)

Ooo, tricky. Spoilered to avoid derailing thread.


If Blade doesn't challenge the Predator, then the Predator. Optical camouflage plus plasma based weaponry, would mean it effortlessly picks off Blade.

If Blade challenges the Predator, then it's down to Blade to what he takes into the duel:

Armed - katana versus whatever Predator brings (presumably sword but spear would be a possibility, along with wristblades). I don't think it'd use the net caster as that would be borderline unfair.
Durability of the katana versus whatever metal the Predator's weapons are made out of, would be a concern though.

Unarmed - I'd give Blade the edge in speed but not by much (Predators are fast enough to take on an Alien xenomorph in melee). Mass and reach easily goes to the Predator.
Strength is a bit tricky - Blade is inhumanly strong because of his vampire blood, while the Predator is also inhumanly strong due to size and alien physiology. I think Blade edges out the Predator (judging from the strength levels he displayed while on human blood versus his fight with Dracula in the third film), but it'll depend on how much proper blood he has in his system.

Training and skill - depends on the Predator here. A young unblooded hunter, I'd give Blade the fight. He has actual combat experience (albeit primarily versus vampires, but experience nonetheless), while the Predator only really has his (unproven) training.

Overall it depends:
Armed and inexperienced Predator, Blade.
Armed and experienced Predator, I have no idea.
Unarmed and inexperienced Predator, Blade just.
Unarmed and experienced Predator, Predator.

In all cases, the fight will probably be pretty epic. :smallbiggrin:

Ossian
2012-01-06, 05:01 AM
Hmmm....for some reason my money is on Blade. Machine guns aside (and hordes of vampires dealt with aside) even in a straight up martial arts duel he seems more competent (and better equipped). Canon wise Buffy might have physical stats through the roof (but to some extent so does Blade) but I am biased by the actors in the show. Perhaps in the comics Buffy is better, but between Wesley Snipes (who did not invent the art of ass kicking but he damn sure perfected it) and Sarah Michelle Gellar, Mr. Snipes comes out the winner.

O.

Selrahc
2012-01-06, 05:13 AM
Buffy in the comics continuation gets a *serious* upgrade in power level. Probably best to specify whether she is from TV only, or if she gets to smash mountains and outrun bullets.

Traab
2012-01-06, 08:53 AM
Buffy in the comics continuation gets a *serious* upgrade in power level. Probably best to specify whether she is from TV only, or if she gets to smash mountains and outrun bullets.

Yeah that was my main worry, while I dont read the comics I have heard things about power creep. I do know that tv buffy, even last season buffy, would get her ass killed in short order. If we unilaterally proclaim vamps are vamps, meaning the ones blade fights are the same as the ones buffy fights, then blade clearly has a huge edge in all categories. Buffy has never walked into a vampire stronghold with dozens of vamps, and heavily armed human guards, and proceeded to carve a bloody, ashy path of destruction through them all. She has been nearly overwhelmed by relatively small numbers of vampires in the past. And im talking generic baby vamps, not stuff like kakistos or lothos or the master.

Chen
2012-01-06, 09:05 AM
A nerd with a pistol managed to shoot Buffy. I'm pretty sure blade would take her out before she could do anything. Firearms just win against her. Even hand to hand, Buffy tends to have an aversion to killing humans. Blade doesn't.

Selrahc
2012-01-06, 09:44 AM
Yeah that was my main worry, while I dont read the comics I have heard things about power creep.

Not really power creep, although without a TV effects budget to consider Buffy was already being a little more impressive. An explicit power up, taking Buffy to superheroic levels. She could fly, outrun bullets, smash mountains and see things from miles away. Buffy in the tail end of Season 8 has Superman scale powers.

Mewtarthio
2012-01-06, 09:58 AM
If Buffy is capable of dodging automatic weapons fire from a trained marksman at close distances (<20m), then she'll win regardless of how good either of them are at hand to hand combat, as her physical capabilities would just be ridiculous.

She has evaded such fire before (ie by diving behind Hollywood-style bulletproof cover). If you're asking whether she could charge a gunman and take him on hand-to-hand, though, then no.

Traab
2012-01-06, 10:03 AM
Buffy in the comics continuation gets a *serious* upgrade in power level. Probably best to specify whether she is from TV only, or if she gets to smash mountains and outrun bullets.

Heh, i suppose it makes sense, after all, eventually, you gather a couple hundred hormonal teens with super powers together and sooner or later one of them is going to say, "Hey, why are you in charge? We all have the same powers here." Give her super slayer powers and blammo, no more questions.

Zen Monkey
2012-01-06, 10:15 AM
One more vote for Blade. Guns and body armor trump fists and clothing. If he has recently consumed blood instead of serum, then it gets even worse for the schoolgirl. Fresh blood seems to act as a temporary invincibility power-up for him in the films.

As for the predator side note, one interesting thing to remember is that vampires are at about room temperature, giving them the Arnold-in-mud advantage versus thermal vision.

Traab
2012-01-06, 10:35 AM
One more vote for Blade. Guns and body armor trump fists and clothing. If he has recently consumed blood instead of serum, then it gets even worse for the schoolgirl. Fresh blood seems to act as a temporary invincibility power-up for him in the films.

As for the predator side note, one interesting thing to remember is that vampires are at about room temperature, giving them the Arnold-in-mud advantage versus thermal vision.

Yeah, but blade has a heartbeat. He has body heat. And not having body heat doesnt stop them from hunting aliens. Its just a different type of vision thats required.

Aotrs Commander
2012-01-06, 11:19 AM
Not really power creep, although without a TV effects budget to consider Buffy was already being a little more impressive. An explicit power up, taking Buffy to superheroic levels. She could fly, outrun bullets, smash mountains and see things from miles away. Buffy in the tail end of Season 8 has Superman scale powers.

Mwah... The heck? How (and why) did that happen? Willow go crazy with spells again or something...?

(Also, why on Earth would she need that kind of power level, narratively? I mean, unless she was actually graduating to fight Epic-level threats (i.e. brawling with the likes Glory or the Senior Partners in direct combat) or something (in which case, you go girl, kick their sorry we-think-we're-unstoppable butts!), that seems well out of line with the level of presented enemies in the mythos until that point. That also seems a bit excessive it is was just establishing Buffy as Alpha Slayer if what Traab was saying is accurate...)

pffh
2012-01-06, 11:31 AM
Mwah... The heck? How (and why) did that happen? Willow go crazy with spells again or something...?

(Also, why on Earth would she need that kind of power level, narratively? I mean, unless she was actually graduating to fight Epic-level threats (i.e. brawling with the likes Glory or the Senior Partners in direct combat) or something (in which case, you go girl, kick their sorry we-think-we're-unstoppable butts!), that seems well out of line with the level of presented enemies in the mythos until that point. That also seems a bit excessive it is was just establishing Buffy as Alpha Slayer if what Traab was saying is accurate...)

Well the longer she is the slayer then more powerful she gets and no slayer has survived as long as she did so I guess eventually all the slayerettes will reach that powerlevel while Buffy becomes even more powerful.

Selrahc
2012-01-06, 11:44 AM
Mwah... The heck? How (and why) did that happen? Willow go crazy with spells again or something...?

The mysterious villain empowered her.
The mysterious villain is Angel.



(Also, why on Earth would she need that kind of power level, narratively? I mean, unless she was actually graduating to fight Epic-level threats (i.e. brawling with the likes Glory or the Senior Partners in direct combat) or something (in which case, you go girl, kick their sorry we-think-we're-unstoppable butts!), that seems well out of line with the level of presented enemies in the mythos until that point. That also seems a bit excessive it is was just establishing Buffy as Alpha Slayer if what Traab was saying is accurate...)

Buffy season 8 is on a much larger scale than previous Buffy. It starts off as a jet setting world trawling adventure, with Buffy and her army of Slayers fighting against supernatural threats, then the paranoid/sinister arm of the US military and a team of past villains (including Amy and Skinless Warren). From there, it ramps up as the mysterious head villain casts off the military and his cronies and reveals his godlike power. That is the stage at which Buffy gets supernatural empowerment, and from there she fights Godesses, Armies(both demonic and human) and the Villain over the fate of the Seed of Magic, an ancient relic from the dawn of time that acts as a plug in the Hellmouth as well as the source of all magic in the world.

It's all a little bit insane. I kind of like it though.

Traab
2012-01-06, 11:54 AM
Well the longer she is the slayer then more powerful she gets and no slayer has survived as long as she did so I guess eventually all the slayerettes will reach that powerlevel while Buffy becomes even more powerful.

See now that actually makes sense. Well, to an extent. Sort of like working out demonic essence muscles, the more you use your slayer powers, the more they grow. Or its like slayer puberty. You hit certain milestones and get a power boost.

turkishproverb
2012-01-06, 02:50 PM
True, but she's died like 3 times by now. I'm surprised it doesn't reset at all.

Traab
2012-01-06, 03:57 PM
True, but she's died like 3 times by now. I'm surprised it doesn't reset at all.

Bah, death is her gift, if anything all these times dying should make her stronger! :smallbiggrin:

Starbuck_II
2012-01-06, 05:19 PM
Bah, death is her gift, if anything all these times dying should make her stronger! :smallbiggrin:

Does that mean she is a Saiyan?

Traab
2012-01-06, 06:02 PM
Does that mean she is a Saiyan?

Well, ive been staring at her butt for a long time now and havent noticed a tail, so maybe not.

Starwulf
2012-01-07, 01:58 AM
Does that mean she is a Saiyan?

*Inserts obligatory "Her Power level is over 9000!!!!!"

Brother Oni
2012-01-07, 06:05 AM
Well, ive been staring at her butt for a long time now and havent noticed a tail, so maybe not.

Maybe you couldn't see the wood trees for the trees wood, so to speak? :smalltongue:

Edit: Fixed order

comicshorse
2012-01-07, 11:07 AM
Of course Buffy is now back to her regular power levels as of the start of the new comic series.

Blade wins I think, he's just more professional about the whole thing than Buffy

Selrahc
2012-01-07, 11:09 AM
Of course Buffy is now back to her regular power levels as of the start of the new comic series.

Blade wins I think, he's just more professional about the whole thing than Buffy

Oh, has season 9 started? I actually didn't know that.

Brother Oni
2012-01-07, 11:29 AM
Blade wins I think, he's just more professional about the whole thing than Buffy

I wouldn't necessarily say professional, more efficient - Blade takes a disturbing amount of joy in killing blood suckers and generally views them with a mixture of contempt and hatred.

Compare to Buffy, who doesn't seem to hate vampires and just kills them because A) they kill people and B) she's the Slayer (aside from that alternate dimension version I saw in one episode).

tyciol
2012-01-07, 12:26 PM
It does largely depend on which blade and buffy.

Also on what equipment too.

If blade had access to all his gear, my money would be on him. I know Buffy has used a crossbow and stuff before (though Master caught it, didn't see her use it much after) but Blade seems to use hi-tech a lot, at least in the movies, and I don't think he'd have any qualms about using an Uzi spray on her.

If she did win when he had full guns, it'd be due to him choosing not to use them because he would want to spare her life since she's not a vampire and since he would assume there was some kind of misunderstanding.

Eldan
2012-01-08, 09:28 AM
Hey, if they have all their weapons, Buffy has a rocket launcher. Just saying :smalltongue:

Traab
2012-01-08, 09:39 AM
Hey, if they have all their weapons, Buffy has a rocket launcher. Just saying :smalltongue:

Meh, even if that is the case, thats one shot, and blade is really fast. A rocket launcher is big, bulky, has to be used at a certain minimum distance to avoid blowing herself up, and to activate the grenade, and hard to use while sprinting, and a standing still buffy is otherwise known as an easy target for automatic weaponry.

dehro
2012-01-08, 09:58 AM
blade has guns and a lot of ammo. he also has a trick-katana (and I can totally picture buffy disarming him and her fingers being sliced off in the process). also, he's a lot more practical and ruthless.
also, he's a good guy
buffy has a pointy stick and a strong morale code. I have not seen many episodes at all..but..has she ever killed a good guy? if not, then blade wins by default on account of her not going to kill him and that being the only way you can stop blade from doing what needs to be done.

Kato
2012-01-08, 01:09 PM
As much as I prefer Buffy over Blade... he is quite on a diffrent level from all I know. Buffy's strong and a able fighter but Blade is that and more. I really don't see any way how this could go against Blade, unless he'd be holding back or Buffy got some other advantage.

Starbuck_II
2012-01-08, 01:44 PM
Buffy can stop bullets with her mind. She did it vs Adam. She can do it again.

Xondoure
2012-01-08, 03:27 PM
Buffy can stop bullets with her mind. She did it vs Adam. She can do it again.

Not without Willow, Xander, and Giles.

Mewtarthio
2012-01-08, 06:06 PM
Buffy can stop bullets with her mind. She did it vs Adam. She can do it again.

That was a one-time deus ex machina. And then the First Slayer tried to murder all her friends in their sleep so they wouldn't do it again. Plus she has to bring in allies for it, and those are forbidden in this match-up.

MammonAzrael
2012-01-08, 06:31 PM
I've seen a lot more Buffy than Blade, and my money is still on Blade.


If we rule that the vampires they're both shown fighting are one and the same, with the same power levels, then Blade has a distinct advantage. If they're not, then IIRC the Blade-vamps typically appear much stronger than their Buffy equivalents (though how much of that is Movie vs TV funding I don't know).

Barring what sounds like crazy comic levels of Slayer-power, I don't see Buffy having a solution to Blade's guns. Or even his sword. Buffy has a lot of skill and training, but she is rarely confronted with a highly skilled armed opponent, and that is going to count for a lot.

Blade wears body armor, right? Can a wooden stake even get through that?


Ultimately though, unless Buffy is in one of her depressed no-talking moods, I see then throwing some blows if they reach the McGuffin at the same time, but also some banter that will reveal mutual interests and stop fighting long enough to sort things out.

Traab
2012-01-08, 09:20 PM
I've seen a lot more Buffy than Blade, and my money is still on Blade.


If we rule that the vampires they're both shown fighting are one and the same, with the same power levels, then Blade has a distinct advantage. If they're not, then IIRC the Blade-vamps typically appear much stronger than their Buffy equivalents (though how much of that is Movie vs TV funding I don't know).

Barring what sounds like crazy comic levels of Slayer-power, I don't see Buffy having a solution to Blade's guns. Or even his sword. Buffy has a lot of skill and training, but she is rarely confronted with a highly skilled armed opponent, and that is going to count for a lot.

Blade wears body armor, right? Can a wooden stake even get through that?


Ultimately though, unless Buffy is in one of her depressed no-talking moods, I see then throwing some blows if they reach the McGuffin at the same time, but also some banter that will reveal mutual interests and stop fighting long enough to sort things out.

Hmm, maybe not a wooden stake, but he has been stabbed with his own silver stakes right through the body armor. Combine that with that slayer scythe they used to empower the potentials, and I think she is capable of breaking through his armor. Also, ive been thinking about my previous stance. While its easy to claim the vamps are the same, they really arent. They make a big deal in blade talking about how vampirism is a biological condition, a disease. Some are born vampire, most are turned. In buffy, its pure demon infested corpse mystical vampires. Btvs is far more deeply rooted in the mythological while blade is more physical. The only exception was the whole blood god thing in the first film, but except for that the movies stayed away from magic.

Starbuck_II
2012-01-08, 11:11 PM
Agreed.
Buffy has used Axes, swords, The Scythe, etc.

If Blades used the swords, Buffy has trained fighting against and with them. She has done this since Freshman year (when that school burned down and she was sent to Sunnydale). And later with Giles, etc.

Guns? Buffy has repeating crossbows to match (plus, Blades can be staked by the crossbow). Only thing Blades has is more Dakka.

I mean, Buffy has killed Gods. Yes not one god. But Gods. Multiple times (The First, Glory, etc).
Blade killed one kind a sorta one.
She even has comebacks to him trying to kill her.
"Kill me? I've been dead! Your turn (shoot bazooka, or whatever ultimate weapon)!"

Kyberwulf
2012-01-08, 11:23 PM
OH another arguement that is invaid in this argument.

Buffy needed HELP to kill those gods.. EVERY time.....

Every apocolyse she needed the help of the other people for the help.

Callos_DeTerran
2012-01-08, 11:39 PM
Agreed.
Buffy has used Axes, swords, The Scythe, etc.

If Blades used the swords, Buffy has trained fighting against and with them. She has done this since Freshman year (when that school burned down and she was sent to Sunnydale). And later with Giles, etc.

Okay, I don't know...anything about Buffy, like...at all, but this statement I have to contest. 'Training' is not something you just do for a little while and are suddenly done with. The quality and quantity of that training is very important and, in Blade's case, his is superior when it comes to his sword and possibly unarmed combat as well.

Blade, assuming he's even CLOSE to the same age as Wesley Snipe has been training since Whistler found him when he was a kid/young teenager. That's anywhere between twenty to thirty years of practice assuming he doesn't age slower then normal humans and I'm pretty sure he does (meaning he might have even more experience then that).

Buffy has been fighting for...how long? That's not a sarcastic statement but an honest question, because barring time shenanigans, I doubt she's been fighting or even training as long as Blade has. Giving Buffy an advantage because she's trained with and against blades doesn't grant much of an edge if she's only done it for like...four years (just guessing) when up against a master swordsman with 20+ years of training and practical combat use. We're talking about a man who cut a vampire in half, down the middle, so fast that you can't even really see it happen and the vampire in question didn't either. An old vampire, trained to hunt Blade, who was also a trained killer.

If Buffy is faster/stronger then Blade then sure, that gives her an edge, but I really doubt she has the experience or training edge over him. Nor do I think repeating crossbows really compare to actual guns, though Blade's body armor is meant to stop bullets not sharp and/or pointy objects so I don't think it's that much help in this scenario, depending on what it's made of. Kevlar, for example, isn't that great at preventing stab wounds but if he's strapped ceramic/metal plates to himself...

Honestly though, I don't see Blade killing Buffy. All the humans he kills are familiars, those who work with vampires and are their servants. When cornered by police officers/SWAT who were clueless of the whole ordeal, he surrendered when he was perfectly capable of continuing to fight. Nor did he harm said police officers/therapist while escaping besides incapicitating them. Once Blade, if Blade, finds out that Buffy is neither a vampire or a familiar, he's likely to switch to non-lethal combat, especially if he sees her as an 'ally' in the sense she's thinning out vampires too.

Mewtarthio
2012-01-08, 11:40 PM
I mean, Buffy has killed Gods. Yes not one god. But Gods. Multiple times (The First, Glory, etc).

She didn't kill any gods in a straight up fight. She never killed the First (unless that's some crazy Season 8 thing). She only killed Glory using a robotic decoy, several explicitly anti-god artifacts, and a specialized Glory-draining spell Willow managed to cast. She's managed to kill a few demons that mortals worshiped, but those are on a decidedly mortal power tier.

Kyberwulf
2012-01-08, 11:57 PM
Why do people assume the fight is To the death.
It could be to the pain. :P

I never said they where going to kill each other over the thing. I merely asked who would fight and win the item there-by averting the Apocolyse.

Callos_DeTerran
2012-01-09, 12:00 AM
Why do people assume the fight is To the death.
It could be to the pain. :P



Well, to be frank, most people assume it's to the death because...it's harder to subdue someone then it is to kill them. Blade has a lot more experience killing people and I imagine he'd be at a disadvantage if he was just trying to 'hurt to the point of quitting' someone.

Splynn
2012-01-09, 12:32 AM
Honestly, my gut goes with Buffy.

A lot of people are pointing out that Blade has been training longer. Angel/Angelus had been training a lot longer, too. Buffy still beat him. Insert any other number of vampires/demons you want that have been training for a very long time, and Buffy still won. In fact, the only person on an equal power level that has ever beaten Buffy in a fair fight... was Spike.

Everyone else either lost, or had some other advantage (magic/god strength/tricks).

Guns... Buffy's dealt with them. Remember the German soldiers in Slayerfest? They were very good at what they were doing; Buffy still won. And she had no help from her friends there.

Honestly the only Blade I know is from the movies. And I think this comes down to terrain. Wide open? Blade's just going to gun her down. But if it's in a closed space, then Buffy is surprisingly good at adapting, sneaking, and getting in to hand to hand.

I don't think it's a close fight either way. But I give the edge to Buffy. She's clever, adaptable, and will retreat if the fight doesn't go her way, and come back better prepared. The Scythe she's using in season 7 doesn't care about Blade's armor.

Anteros
2012-01-09, 02:08 AM
Honestly, my gut goes with Buffy.

A lot of people are pointing out that Blade has been training longer. Angel/Angelus had been training a lot longer, too. Buffy still beat him. Insert any other number of vampires/demons you want that have been training for a very long time, and Buffy still won. In fact, the only person on an equal power level that has ever beaten Buffy in a fair fight... was Spike.

Everyone else either lost, or had some other advantage (magic/god strength/tricks).

Guns... Buffy's dealt with them. Remember the German soldiers in Slayerfest? They were very good at what they were doing; Buffy still won. And she had no help from her friends there.

Honestly the only Blade I know is from the movies. And I think this comes down to terrain. Wide open? Blade's just going to gun her down. But if it's in a closed space, then Buffy is surprisingly good at adapting, sneaking, and getting in to hand to hand.

I don't think it's a close fight either way. But I give the edge to Buffy. She's clever, adaptable, and will retreat if the fight doesn't go her way, and come back better prepared. The Scythe she's using in season 7 doesn't care about Blade's armor.

Those people have a lot of fighting experience, but they didn't really train in the sense that Blade does. Besides, Blade has also killed people generations older than him. So that point doesn't really fly.

Nightmarenny
2012-01-09, 02:16 AM
Okay, I don't know...anything about Buffy, like...at all, but this statement I have to contest. 'Training' is not something you just do for a little while and are suddenly done with. The quality and quantity of that training is very important and, in Blade's case, his is superior when it comes to his sword and possibly unarmed combat as well.

Blade, assuming he's even CLOSE to the same age as Wesley Snipe has been training since Whistler found him when he was a kid/young teenager. That's anywhere between twenty to thirty years of practice assuming he doesn't age slower then normal humans and I'm pretty sure he does (meaning he might have even more experience then that).

Buffy has been fighting for...how long? That's not a sarcastic statement but an honest question, because barring time shenanigans, I doubt she's been fighting or even training as long as Blade has. Giving Buffy an advantage because she's trained with and against blades doesn't grant much of an edge if she's only done it for like...four years (just guessing) when up against a master swordsman with 20+ years of training and practical combat use. We're talking about a man who cut a vampire in half, down the middle, so fast that you can't even really see it happen and the vampire in question didn't either. An old vampire, trained to hunt Blade, who was also a trained killer.

If Buffy is faster/stronger then Blade then sure, that gives her an edge, but I really doubt she has the experience or training edge over him. Nor do I think repeating crossbows really compare to actual guns, though Blade's body armor is meant to stop bullets not sharp and/or pointy objects so I don't think it's that much help in this scenario, depending on what it's made of. Kevlar, for example, isn't that great at preventing stab wounds but if he's strapped ceramic/metal plates to himself...

Honestly though, I don't see Blade killing Buffy. All the humans he kills are familiars, those who work with vampires and are their servants. When cornered by police officers/SWAT who were clueless of the whole ordeal, he surrendered when he was perfectly capable of continuing to fight. Nor did he harm said police officers/therapist while escaping besides incapicitating them. Once Blade, if Blade, finds out that Buffy is neither a vampire or a familiar, he's likely to switch to non-lethal combat, especially if he sees her as an 'ally' in the sense she's thinning out vampires too.

Buffy has been training constantly, everyday of her life for 7(end of series) or 10(current comic) year. that training is supplemented by the memories and training of every other Slayer before her. Its not explicit in her head but allows her to learn any weapon or technique much quicker than normal.

As an example the first time she fights with a sword on screen(when she could have at most 3 years training) she is the equal of a Vampire with known Sword training who has lived for 200 years.

SDF
2012-01-09, 02:31 AM
Meh, even if that is the case, thats one shot, and blade is really fast. A rocket launcher is big, bulky, has to be used at a certain minimum distance to avoid blowing herself up, and to activate the grenade, and hard to use while sprinting, and a standing still buffy is otherwise known as an easy target for automatic weaponry.

Activate the grenade? Nonono, Buffy uses an AT4 shoulder mounted rocket launcher. She does not use an RPG-7 which is a completely different weapon. It could bring down part of the warehouse, but if she hits anywhere near him I don't see how he could possibly survive.

Avilan the Grey
2012-01-09, 02:37 AM
My question is why would they fight at all? Of course in situations like this there is always a few several-yards-across idiot balls in the room. They would probably end up in a stalemate and almost dead (both of them) and then they will "SUDDENLY :smallsigh:" realize they are on the same side, team up and save the world.

Anyway, I quit watching the season before Buffy and Spike did the nasty, but I am still irritated by the power creep / supergirl stuff posted above. To me it seems they got tired of Buffy and tried to reinvent the series as something else.

Nightmarenny
2012-01-09, 02:53 AM
My question is why would they fight at all? Of course in situations like this there is always a few several-yards-across idiot balls in the room. They would probably end up in a stalemate and almost dead (both of them) and then they will "SUDDENLY :smallsigh:" realize they are on the same side, team up and save the world.

Anyway, I quit watching the season before Buffy and Spike did the nasty, but I am still irritated by the power creep / supergirl stuff posted above. To me it seems they got tired of Buffy and tried to reinvent the series as something else.

You are mistaken. Buffy suffered very little power creep. She is the same basic level she always has been with the exception of the Scythe which gave her an increased edge but nothing insane. In Buffy season 8 she get a huge power increase from an outside source that was very brief. Indeed her real increase in power over the years has been in followers.

Avilan the Grey
2012-01-09, 02:54 AM
You are mistaken. Buffy suffered very little power creep. She is the same basic level she always has been with the exception of the Scythe which gave her an increased edge but nothing insane. In Buffy season 8 she get a huge power increase from an outside source that was very brief. Indeed her real increase in power over the years has been in followers.

Well that's good. And that means Blade wins.

MammonAzrael
2012-01-09, 02:55 AM
Hmm, maybe not a wooden stake, but he has been stabbed with his own silver stakes right through the body armor. Combine that with that slayer scythe they used to empower the potentials, and I think she is capable of breaking through his armor. Also, ive been thinking about my previous stance. While its easy to claim the vamps are the same, they really arent. They make a big deal in blade talking about how vampirism is a biological condition, a disease. Some are born vampire, most are turned. In buffy, its pure demon infested corpse mystical vampires. Btvs is far more deeply rooted in the mythological while blade is more physical. The only exception was the whole blood god thing in the first film, but except for that the movies stayed away from magic.

The reason I brought it up is that Buffy usual gear is a simple wooden stake. Which likely just won't penetrate modern body armor (though it'd shatter and hurt like hell). I recognize that she'll have other weapons, but given that a wooden stake is her standard go-to, and she doesn't have experience confronting guys that are armored in modern gear...it's an advantage.

I'm inclined to agree that the two types of vamps are clearly different, but that just makes me more sided with Blade. His vamps are displayed as stronger, smarter, and generally more dangerous. Hell, the Scoobies take down Boffy-vamps, while in Blade-town I just don't see that happening. Do you? (I'm not being facetious, I'm limited on my Blade-lore)


Agreed.
Buffy has used Axes, swords, The Scythe, etc.

If Blades used the swords, Buffy has trained fighting against and with them. She has done this since Freshman year (when that school burned down and she was sent to Sunnydale). And later with Giles, etc.

Guns? Buffy has repeating crossbows to match (plus, Blades can be staked by the crossbow). Only thing Blades has is more Dakka.

I mean, Buffy has killed Gods. Yes not one god. But Gods. Multiple times (The First, Glory, etc).
Blade killed one kind a sorta one.
She even has comebacks to him trying to kill her.
"Kill me? I've been dead! Your turn (shoot bazooka, or whatever ultimate weapon)!"

The Scythe is the Axe-thing from the 7th season, right? And it's some how mystically connected to Slayers or something? Given a choice of weaponry, I don't see Buffy taking anything over that, do you?

Note that her training is often reluctant or half-assed. She relies on her instinct and Slayer-memories to a very large degree. While Blade throws himself into training with dedication daily because it's the only thing he wants to be doing. He doesn't have the distractions of prom or a boyfriend with homicidal tendencies. I believe that Blade's training means a hell of a lot more because he devotes a hell of a lot more to it, and far more consistently.

As I've said in past Vs debates, the term "god" is completely and utterly meaningless. The differences in power of what is a god in various settings is so wildly different that it renders the term useless. As Mewtarthio said, Buffy being able to do anything about those entities required a lot of prep work, props, and teammates. Her returns to life were never part of her abilities, they're parts of the plot, and instigated by it. She isn't Kratos.

There is a reason people use guns and not repeating crossbows. They may both be lethal, but one is a hell of a lot more effective than the other.


Why do people assume the fight is To the death.
It could be to the pain. :P

I never said they where going to kill each other over the thing. I merely asked who would fight and win the item there-by averting the Apocolyse.

Because in absence of a stated victory condition, it is the default condition.


Honestly, my gut goes with Buffy.

A lot of people are pointing out that Blade has been training longer. Angel/Angelus had been training a lot longer, too. Buffy still beat him. Insert any other number of vampires/demons you want that have been training for a very long time, and Buffy still won. In fact, the only person on an equal power level that has ever beaten Buffy in a fair fight... was Spike.

Everyone else either lost, or had some other advantage (magic/god strength/tricks).

Guns... Buffy's dealt with them. Remember the German soldiers in Slayerfest? They were very good at what they were doing; Buffy still won. And she had no help from her friends there.

Honestly the only Blade I know is from the movies. And I think this comes down to terrain. Wide open? Blade's just going to gun her down. But if it's in a closed space, then Buffy is surprisingly good at adapting, sneaking, and getting in to hand to hand.

I don't think it's a close fight either way. But I give the edge to Buffy. She's clever, adaptable, and will retreat if the fight doesn't go her way, and come back better prepared. The Scythe she's using in season 7 doesn't care about Blade's armor.

Angel has not be training longer. Angel has been around longer, and had lots of incidental experience. Blade dedicates his life to training and exterminating vamps. There is a huge difference between focused training and just being around a long time and gleaning experience. It's like Angel is a wizard that has been leveling up by studying in a tower, while Blade is adventuring and getting his quota of 4 encounters a day.

Note that the Slayerfest Germans were normal humans. Buffy has been shown to be at least a weight-class or two higher than even highly trained humans. Mystical inherited templates are awesome like that.

I agree that The Scythe will be dangerous. I don't remember all the mystic mojo it packed (or if it was ever really covered), but it seems like a dangerous wild card to Blade.


Buffy has been training constantly, everyday of her life for 7(end of series) or 10(current comic) year. that training is supplemented by the memories and training of every other Slayer before her. Its not explicit in her head but allows her to learn any weapon or technique much quicker than normal.

As an example the first time she fights with a sword on screen(when she could have at most 3 years training) she is the equal of a Vampire with known Sword training who has lived for 200 years.

No, she hasn't. She's trained, but as I mentioned above, it's hardly constant or even very focused. There are many examples of her half-assing it or not caring or skipping. Do you think she trained daily when she skipped town and became a waitress? How about all the time spent at school, with friends, and patrolling? Additionally, her focus has always been hand-to-hand, not weapons-based. Which means that her skills, no matter how well trained initially, will decay and pick up some rust the less it's used.

And I still don't see her closing to a distance that won't see her shot full of holes.

Nightmarenny
2012-01-09, 03:02 AM
I'm not arguing who will win I'm merling stating facts. While she did lapse some in the early years she still trained often. Giles tried to train her everyday and kept on her back often enough. Yes there was a 3 month lapse where no training happened.

When we do see here train we see her using a variety of weapons. The show simply didn't focus on her training beyond the drama created when she tried to skip.

Avilan the Grey
2012-01-09, 03:02 AM
No, she hasn't. She's trained, but as I mentioned above, it's hardly constant or even very focused. There are many examples of her half-assing it or not caring or skipping.

plus, even if she did nothing but train for 3 years, Blade has done nothing but train for his entire life. He is miles ahead of her to begin with, and a 3 year sudden dedication to training, if it even did occur, does NOT make up for that, of course. She won't even get closer, just not lose more skill (comparatively) to him per day anymore.

Killer Angel
2012-01-09, 03:15 AM
Let's compare the TV Buffy's various seasons, and point me a bad guy with phisical skills and combat ability vaguely comparable to what Blade shows in the films.
Blade is stronger, faster and more trained than everything Buffy ever faced. And she died thrice.

Avilan the Grey
2012-01-09, 03:31 AM
Let's compare the TV Buffy's various seasons, and point me a bad guy with phisical skills and combat ability vaguely comparable to what Blade shows in the films.
Blade is stronger, faster and more trained than everything Buffy ever faced. And she died thrice.

Exactly my point. You never see her fight anyone with even remotely the skill he has in the TV series. Plus, he fight "dirty". She comes at him with a weapon in her arms? Chop her arms off. Etc.

Splynn
2012-01-09, 03:36 AM
Those people have a lot of fighting experience, but they didn't really train in the sense that Blade does. Besides, Blade has also killed people generations older than him. So that point doesn't really fly.

My mistake; I was not implying that this means Buffy will win. I was implying that Blade having trained like that does not imply that he will win. The point was that since Blade has trained more, he will win. I was merely pointing out that this isn't necessarily the case.


Angel has not be training longer. Angel has been around longer, and had lots of incidental experience. Blade dedicates his life to training and exterminating vamps. There is a huge difference between focused training and just being around a long time and gleaning experience. It's like Angel is a wizard that has been leveling up by studying in a tower, while Blade is adventuring and getting his quota of 4 encounters a day.

Note that the Slayerfest Germans were normal humans. Buffy has been shown to be at least a weight-class or two higher than even highly trained humans. Mystical inherited templates are awesome like that.

I agree that The Scythe will be dangerous. I don't remember all the mystic mojo it packed (or if it was ever really covered), but it seems like a dangerous wild card to Blade.


Angel has been training longer. Blade was born (according to Wiki) in 1929. My knowledge of Blade is that since a very young age, he has trained every single day of his life. It's 2012, now. So he has trained for 83 years.

Angel was sired in 1753. He is described has having "superior" hand to hand and weapon combat skilled; he had to train to get those. He was not simply observing. In an episode in Season 3 of Buffy, she walks in on him practicing Tai Chi. He trained. I'm not saying that's he's had better training than Blade. Nor that he is a better hand-to-hand combatant than Blade. In fact, I'd say Blade would beat Angel into the ground on almost every encounter they have.

What I'm saying is that the longevity of training doesn't matter. Angel's been training for longer, and he'd still lose to both Buffy and Blade. Blade having trained for so long is good. But it doesn't seem to matter against the pseudo-instinctive nature that slayers learn combat techniques. And Giles was no slouch in training. The Watchers were very capable in theory of combat.

The Germans in Slayerfest were just humans, yes. But they never went hand to hand with Buffy. She killed them- both of them- at the same time by simply outsmarting them. Trained killers, both of them. Again, my point is not "Buffy beats two German humans; erego she beats Blade."

My point is this. Two men trained with weapons and trained to kill get beaten by a little girl that never even lays a finger on them. Buffy is adaptable, and a quick thinker. This doesn't mean Buffy beats Blade. But it does mean that people should be less quick to think that guns mean Buffy immediately loses.

The reason I think Buffy wins is simple. She's stronger than Blade. Faster. I'd argue more adaptable. Has a magic axe.

Blade's been training longer? So have tons of other vamps/demons. Blade has the physical traits of a vampire? Buffy is a machine designed to fight exactly that. In a hand to hand fight, Buffy brings more to the table. Blade's best bet is to get her with guns. Which is why I maintain that in an open area, Blade will win.

But if the fight gets to melee (something Buffy has shown capable of forcing where guns are involved), Buffy edges out Blade in every category other than amount of time spent training. And Buffy has shown that this doesn't matter. Quality of training, too. Quite a few vampire assassins who do nothing but train, as well as some vampires who do the same, have all fallen to her.

Avilan the Grey
2012-01-09, 03:51 AM
The reason I think Buffy wins is simple. She's stronger than Blade. Faster. I'd argue more adaptable. Has a magic axe.

However, as we have pointed out, none of these things are evident in the movie / TV series. Blade is SHOWN to be stronger, faster (by far) and combines brute strength, speed, sword and gun to devastating effect.

Edit: and more adaptable how?

Xondoure
2012-01-09, 03:53 AM
Guns have this annoying thing in stories where if melee looks better they stop being useful for no reason. If we are treating them as they should be Buffy is dead within seconds.

Splynn
2012-01-09, 04:33 AM
However, as we have pointed out, none of these things are evident in the movie / TV series. Blade is SHOWN to be stronger, faster (by far) and combines brute strength, speed, sword and gun to devastating effect.

Edit: and more adaptable how?


All of these things are shown. In Season 4, Buffy and Riley (a soldier in a top secret military organization. Very skilled hand to hand) are sparring. They agree to stop holding back, and Buffy subsequently kicks Riley across the room. She's shown to be faster. In Season 5 Glory (hellgod) launches a fireball after her friends. She sprints after it, and is successful in saving her friends by chasing the thing down on foot.

More adaptable in terms of quick thinking. She kills a vampire with no slayer powers at all by tricking it into drinking holy water. The german soldiers I've been talking about. They were hunting her with guns; she realizes they were tracking her and tricks them into shooting one another.

But that point is entirely debatable, and extremely subjective. It's purely my opinion that Buffy is more adaptable; there'd be no way of concretely proving it one way or another.

Also, even beyond what's shown. Just Buffy-lore. Buffy is a slayer. Slayers are stronger/faster. Slayers actually get their power from demons, not vampires. Slayers simply are stronger than vampires, and faster. It's a part of the slayer package, whether shown or not. Though it's still shown frequently throughout the show.

Killer Angel
2012-01-09, 04:59 AM
All of these things are shown. In Season 4, Buffy and Riley (a soldier in a top secret military organization. Very skilled hand to hand) are sparring. They agree to stop holding back, and Buffy subsequently kicks Riley across the room. She's shown to be faster.

Sadly, the highly specialized soldiers of that organization, don't show skills comparable to their own fluff.

Let's stay in close combat, without firearms.
What is shown in the TV serie, is that buffy is often in hard times. Example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQl7BX-Jmv8).
Compare that to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLLFbCOk9mE), when Blade faces for the first time the BBEG.
I wouldn't bet a single penny on Buffy. (edit: I'm exaggerating :smallwink:)


More adaptable in terms of quick thinking.

And blade is a planner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlDOxLU8gAU&feature=related)?

Splynn
2012-01-09, 05:19 AM
Hahah. Yea I really love that scene in Blade. Really cool play by him. And again, I'm not going to get into the 'who's better at planning' stuff. I think Buffy. But if you wanna say Blade, that's fine.

Buffy fighting the Turok-Hon does show her on hard times. Absolutely. That thing was pretty intense. But I'd hardly conclude that it shows Buffy as being incapable. She comes back to kill the thing with her bare hands a wire only a few episodes after that.

And once she has the Scythe, she slices through the things with ease. (which was dumb). And in this fight, she has the Scythe. Magically-imbued axe and all. I fail to see how it wouldn't slice through Blade as well.

Anyway, I've made my case. Blade has the physical capabilities of a vampire. Buffy is designed and made to kill things with those capabilities, as well as things with *more* capability. If you give Blade guns, room to shoot, and no ground for Buffy to run to for cover, then yea. Blade will just gun her down.

But in hand to hand, Buffy's going to win the fight. Faster, stronger, instinctive combat sense superior to that of a vampire. Very fast thinker and good at improvising. Beat him easily? No. But I still think she wins the very hard, bloody fight.

You think Blade instead of her? That's fine. I'm hardly going to pretend like he can't possibly win in any circumstances. And for you to think that Buffy can't ever win, well. I disagree :).

Killer Angel
2012-01-09, 05:23 AM
Blade has the physical capabilities of a vampire. Buffy is designed and made to kill things with those capabilities.

I think Blade is far superior, basing on the abilities shown on screen, but I agree that storywise, it's a fair match.

Avilan the Grey
2012-01-09, 06:20 AM
Splynn, you are making the assumtion that blade is a normal vampire. He is not. And he is DEFINITELY not a BUFFYverse vampire.

Normal vampires in Blade's verse are superior to normal vampires in Buffy. Blade is faster, stronger than a normal vampire in his 'verse (He is the Daywalker, remember? All their benefits, none of their weaknesses). Buffy can kick through a concrete wall. Blade can take being kicked through a concrete wall. It WILL annoy him, but anyway.

And he is faster than any fighting scene with Buffy shows her being. He is a master swordsman, a very very good martial arts fighter. Plus all his hidden weapons and body armor.



I think Blade is far superior, basing on the abilities shown on screen, but I agree that storywise, it's a fair match.

Exactly. It's like the discussion about the Emperor in Star Wars. He is supposed to be so so very powerful according to the extended material but he can't even fight back when picked up by a dying man and carried for 5 seconds or more before dropped down a ventilation shaft.

Buffy is supposed to be this incredible fighter, but just by watching them in scenes from their respective movies / TV shows shows that Blade is superior.

Remember, again, Blade is not transformed into a Buffyverse vampire just because he is fighting Buffy.

Killer Angel
2012-01-09, 07:15 AM
Normal vampires in Blade's verse are superior to normal vampires in Buffy.

Yeah, and I would say this applies even to special ones. I'm not particularly impressed by Buffy's version of dracula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qNhrB36Hnk). (PS: look at the video without sound, it's better for you)

Brother Oni
2012-01-09, 08:09 AM
Buffy is supposed to be this incredible fighter, but just by watching them in scenes from their respective movies / TV shows shows that Blade is superior.

As mentioned before, we should be very careful about using this as a yardstick due to TV series/movie budget differences and actor capabilities.

The fact that Wesley Snipes could easily beat Sarah Michelle Gellar to a pulp shouldn't influence a discussion on Blade versus Buffy, but it is going to.

The fact that Blade has professional fight choreographers and wirework (at least the first film did) is going to make the fights more impressive than Buffy.

The fact remains though that Blade consistently takes on more vampires than Buffy does and his mindset is far more focused than hers is.
She may have a better instincts, but Blade doesn't suffer any crises of faith like Buffy does.

Buffy may go out on patrol regularly, but a number of times in the series they end quietly when the Sunnydale vampires decide to stay home. Every time Blade goes out, somebody either dies or gets their arsed kicked.

I think somebody mentioned that Blade has all the benefits of a vampire - this includes regeneration and rapid healing in his universe. Admittedly he shows very little evidence of this (aside from his significant durability), but it may help survive the few moments of combat.

Avilan the Grey
2012-01-09, 08:26 AM
I think somebody mentioned that Blade has all the benefits of a vampire - this includes regeneration and rapid healing in his universe. Admittedly he shows very little evidence of this (aside from his significant durability), but it may help survive the few moments of combat.

His whole shtick is "all the benefits, none of the weaknesses", which means superhuman strength, speed and durability, no weakness to sunlight whatsoever (or silver or wood, more than anyone else, at least). Add to this his combat training, his usual gear (he NEVER goes unarmed, since he is ALWAYS "on"; the only thing he does is to kill vampires. 24/7.).

As for the first part (that I snipped): You say to disregard this, when it really is the only thing we can really go on. Buffy is a teenage girl with very impressive superhuman qualities. However she is regularly in trouble; is far less impressive in combat and combats weaker foes. Even if you don't pay attention to the "wire fu", she just don't hold up to Blade's skill and speed.

(Blade also has other thing to his favor, such as a more ruthless attitude; he would have burned down / blown up that club the first season to stop the vampires from converging there). He is basically the Operative with a heart. And fangs.

Traab
2012-01-09, 09:06 AM
Hahah. Yea I really love that scene in Blade. Really cool play by him. And again, I'm not going to get into the 'who's better at planning' stuff. I think Buffy. But if you wanna say Blade, that's fine.

Buffy fighting the Turok-Hon does show her on hard times. Absolutely. That thing was pretty intense. But I'd hardly conclude that it shows Buffy as being incapable. She comes back to kill the thing with her bare hands a wire only a few episodes after that.

And once she has the Scythe, she slices through the things with ease. (which was dumb). And in this fight, she has the Scythe. Magically-imbued axe and all. I fail to see how it wouldn't slice through Blade as well.

Anyway, I've made my case. Blade has the physical capabilities of a vampire. Buffy is designed and made to kill things with those capabilities, as well as things with *more* capability. If you give Blade guns, room to shoot, and no ground for Buffy to run to for cover, then yea. Blade will just gun her down.

But in hand to hand, Buffy's going to win the fight. Faster, stronger, instinctive combat sense superior to that of a vampire. Very fast thinker and good at improvising. Beat him easily? No. But I still think she wins the very hard, bloody fight.

You think Blade instead of her? That's fine. I'm hardly going to pretend like he can't possibly win in any circumstances. And for you to think that Buffy can't ever win, well. I disagree :).

But the problem is, while they make the claim that buffy is faster/stronger/more skilled than vamps, they rarely ever show it against anything but the newborns she stakes as they are half out of their graves. Even then she rarely ever faces more than a small handful without major struggling or a running battle of some sort. The big bads, the tougher mooks, they hurt her almost every time.

Meanwhile Blade, we WATCH him slice and dice his way through dozens upon dozens of vampires AND heavily armed human guards all in the same big showdown. We see his speed, his strength, and his skill in combat. He is clearly faster and stronger than his worlds average vamp. Now, the real problem gets brought up in the first movie. Frost is standing out in the sun, slathered in sunscreen, holding a child hostage. Blade aims and fires his automatic weapon, and we get to watch max payne style bullet time as the vamp DODGES THE BULLETS. Later on, in the final showdown we see blade keep up with a guy capable of dodging bullets and who is fundamentally invulnerable. Hell, blade cuts him in half at the waist early on and it takes him 3 seconds to heal from that. Point being, blade is clearly not at buffy vamp levels of strength speed and ability. He is way past it.

Chen
2012-01-09, 09:16 AM
I'm going to reiterate my earlier point. In Season 6, Warren walks up to Buffy and Xander, does a bit of exposition and SHOOTS her. She is not used to someone being ready to kill in that manner. Blade would just take out his uzi or whatever and she'd die.

Devonix
2012-01-09, 09:33 AM
Blade is a master martial artist proficient in practically every form of weaponry known to man. His particular specialty is the use of edged weapons, be they teakwood daggers or swords. Blade is a master in the use of small bladed weapons and can hurl knives with great accuracy. Blade also shows great skill with firearms, including both automatic and semi-automatic, which he often modifies to fire hollow-point, garlic-filled silver bullets. He is also a skilled jazz trumpeter.


Blade has the power of Jazz aka Blade wins.

Blade's trashed Wolverine in Hand to hand. not just beaten but beaten handidly.

Tiki Snakes
2012-01-09, 10:20 AM
I don't know about the comics Blade, but as far as Movie-Blade goes, I think it's worth not over-stating how strong and fast the vampires are in that.

This scene in particular stands out. (http://youtu.be/XyLs8gO2IAM)
Entirely normal human, casually overpowering several vamps at once. Sure, she finishes them off with fancy toys, but she literally seems to be stronger than them.
As for movie-blade himself (http://youtu.be/yJt2N7LSptg) he's pretty good and reasonably spry, but I don't see him doing anything much that's significantly beyond Buffy's physical capabilities there.

Inevitably, Comics Blade and Comics blade-verse-vamps are almost certainly tougher, faster and so on, but as far as the movie goes, even with the guns It strikes me that it would be a very even fight.

Omergideon
2012-01-09, 10:32 AM
Regarding Buffy vs Vamps, there is little to no evidence that the vampires buffy regularly faces have recieved anything resembling training. A few have been seen to (e.g. Angel on occasion) but not many. Not proof that they do not train but certainly something to consider.

But if we want to remove budget considerations (etc) then we can witness the series instead of the movies for blade. Now the Actor is no wesley snipes in terms of skill but he does show on many occasions a level of strength and skill in combat that Buffy cannot match even in the 7th season when the fx and choreography were at their best. Just watching the leap that Krista (who blade can beat down with NO trouble at all) makes as a vamp. The level of strength required for that is so far beyond what Buffy has ever done that it is ludicrous. Or the speed with which Blade scales the building in the pilot episode! In all ways Blade has shown greater strength than buffy has, as well as speed and (accounting for budget) skill in combat so I vote for him.

Traab
2012-01-09, 10:56 AM
I don't know about the comics Blade, but as far as Movie-Blade goes, I think it's worth not over-stating how strong and fast the vampires are in that.

This scene in particular stands out. (http://youtu.be/XyLs8gO2IAM)
Entirely normal human, casually overpowering several vamps at once. Sure, she finishes them off with fancy toys, but she literally seems to be stronger than them.
As for movie-blade himself (http://youtu.be/yJt2N7LSptg) he's pretty good and reasonably spry, but I don't see him doing anything much that's significantly beyond Buffy's physical capabilities there.

Inevitably, Comics Blade and Comics blade-verse-vamps are almost certainly tougher, faster and so on, but as far as the movie goes, even with the guns It strikes me that it would be a very even fight.


I just wanted to add in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RppfiZ50jQ) scene here. In it we see frost dodging bullets. Now, maybe its not a common ability. maybe its even something like a zen monk dodging arrows, he has to be expecting it to do it. But the implications are there. Frost dodged bullets. Seconds later we watch him HURL that girl through a bus stop stand and into traffic. And yes, biel did kick vamp ass, dont forget the rest of the scoobies, who at various times have joined in on vamp patrols and also killed vampires, and these are standard, untrained kids. (This is pre uber witch willow type stuff) Not people who have spent most of their life training to kill vamps like biels character was.

So, at best, its a general wash with the generic vamps between worlds, skill wise. Humans can fight vamps in both worlds, and do a decent job. Though its clearly harder for them. So instead we have to look at numbers and the scenarios both characters get involved with. In the blade fight video you linked, if there were less than 100 vamps there, id be shocked. Not only that, most of them tried to run the hell away from him. Outnumbered 100-1 and they ran away. Meanwhile buffy in general tends to struggle against more than 5 vamps at a time. And they almost never try to run away, at least not before she has staked most of them first. Blade? He goes through swarms of vamps like a lawnmower through grass. Not only can he kill far more of them at once, he is clearly better at it. He kills far faster, cleaner, smoother, than buffy does. With her, even against some newbie vamps there is a struggle involved, even if it isnt much of a struggle, several punches thrown, whatever. With blade? Boom next, stab next, slice next.

Tiki Snakes
2012-01-09, 11:53 AM
I do generally speaking agree with a lot of your points there, the vampires do seem to be pretty comparable to the most part, going from mook to bullet-dodging supervillain in both, with similar levels of rarity.

However, it's an important distinction to make that Blade Vampires are normal people, whereas Buffy Vampires are basically demonic.

The 100 people in the club were vampires, but they were also just normal people quite clearly. Buffy Vampires in the same situation wouldn't run in such huge numbers. The amount that actually fought back was not significantly different than you'd expect in a buffy fight-scene.

There were just a lot more fanged non-combatants present.

It's kind of weird, actually, watching that clip. Sure, Deacon Frost and his bullet dodging is impressive. But that little girl just shrugged off being thrown twenty foot through a bus shelter.
She's tough.

Traab
2012-01-09, 12:29 PM
I do generally speaking agree with a lot of your points there, the vampires do seem to be pretty comparable to the most part, going from mook to bullet-dodging supervillain in both, with similar levels of rarity.

However, it's an important distinction to make that Blade Vampires are normal people, whereas Buffy Vampires are basically demonic.

The 100 people in the club were vampires, but they were also just normal people quite clearly. Buffy Vampires in the same situation wouldn't run in such huge numbers. The amount that actually fought back was not significantly different than you'd expect in a buffy fight-scene.

There were just a lot more fanged non-combatants present.

It's kind of weird, actually, watching that clip. Sure, Deacon Frost and his bullet dodging is impressive. But that little girl just shrugged off being thrown twenty foot through a bus shelter.
She's tough.

Heh, might have been a setup. Remember later on in the flick he gets attacked by a little girl vampire? I know it wasnt in this case, but I agree, she was in remarkably good shape considering the blunt force trauma she took.

You have a good point about the blade vamps not all being pure evil destruction demons, so yeah, it would make sense. Its not much different than a regular person being in a normal club when BLAM! A terrorist group that wants to kill your kind shows up and starts shooting. Some might be brave enough to fight back, others would panic and flee. I honestly hadnt thought about it that way. Mainly because blade tended to get into situations with vamps who WANTED to fight. But even so, just the number that he personally killed at that club was way more than buffy tended to take care of in an entire episode and several battle sequences. She just tended to fight them in very small groups 90% of the time. *EDIT* I just counted, as far as I can tell, he confirmed 21 dead vamps in that fight. Thats way more than 99% of all buffy fights. The times she racks up more kills is in big battles where she has help. Final fight at the school, graduation day, etc etc.

Velaryon
2012-01-09, 12:46 PM
It's been a long time since I watched the Blade movies, and I've never read any of the comics, but if he handled Wolverine in a fight I think he could survive Buffy.

That said, considering Buffy's... fondness for the bad-boy vampire hero types, I'm not at all sure this battle would end in either of their deaths, but perhaps with some Barry White music playing. :smallwink:

Brother Oni
2012-01-09, 01:08 PM
As for the first part (that I snipped): You say to disregard this, when it really is the only thing we can really go on. Buffy is a teenage girl with very impressive superhuman qualities.

If we're taking the physical attributes of the two main actors as the primary representation, Wesley Snipes (~5'9" and ~180lb) and Sarah Michelle Gellar (~5'3" and ~120lb), then Blade has about 6" of height and 60lbs of weight on Buffy.

Even if Buffy were equally strong, the size and weight advantage would still put it in favour of Blade (which would be mitigated by melee weapons on both sides, but would continue to be a factor).

I think the OP needs to be clearer on which version of Buffy (which season) and which version of Blade (comic or movie) to refine this comparison.

As an aside, in all the depictions I've seen of Wolverine, he's been an effective fighter due to his adamantium, healing factor and ferocity. He's not actually that skilled, much like Superman (who also hasn't really needed to learn how to fight due to his powers) - I remember an illustrated novel where Elektra carves Logan up as well (I think she disables him by impaling him to a tree with her sai through his body, piercing both lungs).



He is basically the Operative with a heart. And fangs.

He's not though. Somebody linked to the conversation he had with Deacon Frost - he only saves the girl AFTER he unloads his pistol's clip at the fleeing Frost.
Saving people is an afterthought - he'd prefer to kill vampires. The only difference between Blade and the Serenity Operative is scale of thinking (Blade doesn't think as big or have the same sort of resources) and detachment (the Operative doesn't hate his targets, while Blade clearly enjoys torturing and killing vampires).



That said, considering Buffy's... fondness for the bad-boy vampire hero types, I'm not at all sure this battle would end in either of their deaths, but perhaps with some Barry White music playing. :smallwink:

Amusing as that may be, that's unfortunately covered under the OP's clause of them not 'teaming up'. :smalltongue:

Blade will probably treat Buffy exactly how you'd expect - a very dismissive 'go home, little girl', which would probably spark off the fight anyway.

Starbuck_II
2012-01-09, 01:11 PM
As for the first part (that I snipped): You say to disregard this, when it really is the only thing we can really go on. Buffy is a teenage girl with very impressive superhuman qualities. However she is regularly in trouble; is far less impressive in combat and combats weaker foes. Even if you don't pay attention to the "wire fu", she just don't hold up to Blade's skill and speed.


She started the show as a Teenager, but she is not a Teen anymore canon-wise. When you get past 19, you are no longer a teenager silly. :smalltongue:
She passed College and all.

Mewtarthio
2012-01-09, 01:42 PM
She passed College and all.

Didn't she drop out to take care of her sister after Joyce's death?

Kyberwulf
2012-01-09, 05:58 PM
I do believe she did.

I meant the most Recent version of Said Combatants.

On the Subject of Wolverine being untrained. He was trained in all sorts of martial Arts. I think he was trained by several Covert goverment agentcies, American and (heh heh) Canadian. Traind by The Hand. Trained in Xavier's School in the Danger room. I think there was Samurai Training in there too.. if thats revalvent.

Brother Oni
2012-01-09, 06:43 PM
I meant the most Recent version of Said Combatants.

In that case, probably comic book Buffy from what the others have said about her capabilities there.



On the Subject of Wolverine being untrained. He was trained in all sorts of martial Arts. I think he was trained by several Covert goverment agentcies, American and (heh heh) Canadian. Traind by The Hand. Trained in Xavier's School in the Danger room. I think there was Samurai Training in there too.. if thats revalvent.

All of which apparently invalidated by his memory loss. :smalltongue:

As I've said, all the depictions I've seen have shown him highly reliant on his mutant powers and augmentations, rather than skill at fighting.
There well may be scenes of him being extremely skilful, but I haven't seen them.

Dr.Epic
2012-01-09, 06:45 PM
Wasn't there a thread like this awhile back? I think so, and as I recall, I think I posted in it whoever kills the most Twilight vampires wins. I think that should be the deciding battle. Anyone else agree with me? :smallwink: :smalltongue:

MammonAzrael
2012-01-09, 07:00 PM
Wasn't there a thread like this awhile back? I think so, and as I recall, I think I posted in it whoever kills the most Twilight vampires wins. I think that should be the deciding battle. Anyone else agree with me? :smallwink: :smalltongue:

While a nice thought, I suspect that Twilight camps would wipe the floor with both Buffy and Blade. They're all daywalkers, except with magic powers too. Hmmm...this could be the basis of a new thread...

Traab
2012-01-09, 07:17 PM
While a nice thought, I suspect that Twilight camps would wipe the floor with both Buffy and Blade. They're all daywalkers, except with magic powers too. Hmmm...this could be the basis of a new thread...

Im guessing they have a similar weakness to angel. A moment of true happiness and they catch fire and die. Right? The twinkler vamps were the broody ones iirc.

Dr.Epic
2012-01-09, 07:26 PM
While a nice thought, I suspect that Twilight camps would wipe the floor with both Buffy and Blade. They're all daywalkers, except with magic powers too. Hmmm...this could be the basis of a new thread...

Then can we do the Avengers v. Twilight vampires?:smalltongue:

Nightmarenny
2012-01-09, 07:27 PM
Im guessing they have a similar weakness to angel. A moment of true happiness and they catch fire and die. Right? The twinkler vamps were the broody ones iirc.

Some of them were broody. One of the many problems with twilight is how ridiculously strong it made Vampires. They have no weakness. They can't be harmed by any mortal weapon.

Traab
2012-01-09, 07:40 PM
Some of them were broody. One of the many problems with twilight is how ridiculously strong it made Vampires. They have no weakness. They can't be harmed by any mortal weapon.

Pfft, unkillable monsters never stopped buffy. "No weapon forged by man huh?" /pulls out a rocket launcher. "Pretty sure this has never been within 50 miles of a forge."

Splynn
2012-01-09, 08:35 PM
Hmm. I wasn't operating under the assumption that Blade becomes a Buffy vamp. I was operating under the assumption that these universes were being made to coexist somehow. Whether the vampires become Buffy-vamps or Blade-vamps is irrelevant to my point, because either way slayer-lore changes Buffy to fit, and Blade to fit.

However, if we are making this a situation where one or the other moves through dimensions into the other world, and they face off in that scenario...

I looked up Blade's strength. At his physical peak, Blade can lift 1 ton. Buffy has no statistic for this, really. However, we see her do several impressive feats of strength. Lifting a 200 pound man with one hand out of a hole in the ground (grave) and tossing him several feet with no issue. Bending the barrel of a rifle with one hand. Lifting an I-beam used for construction that was said to weigh "hundreds of pounds", casually putting it over her shoulder, and then gingerly walking away. Lifting a closed portcullis by herself that six other grown men could not lift and not really seeming too strained by it. I'm putting six men at roughly 900 lbs of lifting power. So Buffy has at least in excess of that.

These things lead to believe that placing Buffy in the class 1 strength category is not a stretch. So these two are equal in strength. 1 ton is liftable for both.

Agility... Buffy has caught a crossbow bolt flying through the air. Slayers in general have shown capable of dodging bullets at point blank range, as well as tranquilizer darts at point blank range. Buffy once set off a bear trap, but pulled her foot out before it snapped shut. I looked for examples of Blade's superhuman agility, but couldn't find anything. So unless someone else can come up with something to match, edge to Buffy.

Fighting skills... really this is what it comes down to. And you guys are way overstating Blade's training here. I checked up the Marvel wiki on this. Blade fashioned himself into a vampire hunter "before adulthood", after being raised in a brothel. So... 13-14? About the same age as Buffy, actually. And nowhere does it say anything about spending time with anyone training any spectacular amount. He's quoted as being a "master martial artist." at adulthood. But the actual time spent training is off-panel and off-screen.

Buffy was trained from 15 or so until roughly 2005-ish (that's about the timeframe that I'm assuming this fight happens.) But beyond her training, slayers get instinctive combat knowledge and technique. In the episode Tabula Rasa, an amnesiac Buffy kills several vampires with no knowledge of her training or abilities at all. She simply does it. Slayers have the "collective experience of all slayers before them". So Buffy's training and experience are supplemented by ancestral and instinctive knowledge that spans back to the creation of humankind. Is this shown frequently? No. But it is included in Buffy Summers. Anyway, at 10 years of training I'd say Buffy is a master martial artist, especially considering that Slayers have inbuilt knowledge, and simply learn combat faster than the average human. I give the edge to Buffy. Blade is quoted as being a master martial artist. Buffy is a master martial artist, and knows combat on an instinctive level. This is shown in the series, on screen.

Weapons. As said before, if the fight is at range, Blade obviously wins. But this is in a warehouse. Tons of places to hide, sneak, and dodge. Buffy can dodge bullets- though I wouldn't say indefinitely. He opens fire, she ducks behind some crates. The fight's going to go melee. It's Blade's katana. A cool sword that he's an expert with. Buffy's Scythe. A mythical, ancient weapon that is magical in nature, sharp to a ridiculous level, bladed on multiple sides, that Buffy feels a magical bond with, and that increases her fighting abilities in general. The exact nature of what it does are not revealed. But the thing is magical, and after getting it Buffy is seen slicing through enemies that she had a lot of problems with beforehand.

To note, I'm going off of the comic backstory and abilities for Blade. But he doesn't win out in any category. Buffy has the edge in melee, and this fight is going to be decided in melee.

And with that, I'm pretty much done on the topic. I don't like arguments in vs. debates x.x. Nothing ever feels proven, and everyone gets a weird 'us vs them' mentality. Those are my points for why I feel Buffy wins the fight. But I'm not really interested in picking this up over and over again to touch on the same points; I only did it this time because the premise I was operating under in my first few posts were apparently incorrect. However, if we are transporting these guys from their respective dimensions... then Buffy still wins.

Movie Blade, I donno. He should theoretically be constrained to the same abilities as in the comics. But I doubt that what's on-screen leads us to believe this is true. However, I don't feel comfortable giving Blade the fight simply because his movie had more money than Buffy's show did for effects.

Traab
2012-01-09, 09:31 PM
Hmm. I wasn't operating under the assumption that Blade becomes a Buffy vamp. I was operating under the assumption that these universes were being made to coexist somehow. Whether the vampires become Buffy-vamps or Blade-vamps is irrelevant to my point, because either way slayer-lore changes Buffy to fit, and Blade to fit.

However, if we are making this a situation where one or the other moves through dimensions into the other world, and they face off in that scenario...

I looked up Blade's strength. At his physical peak, Blade can lift 1 ton. Buffy has no statistic for this, really. However, we see her do several impressive feats of strength. Lifting a 200 pound man with one hand out of a hole in the ground (grave) and tossing him several feet with no issue. Bending the barrel of a rifle with one hand. Lifting an I-beam used for construction that was said to weigh "hundreds of pounds", casually putting it over her shoulder, and then gingerly walking away. Lifting a closed portcullis by herself that six other grown men could not lift and not really seeming too strained by it. I'm putting six men at roughly 900 lbs of lifting power. So Buffy has at least in excess of that.

These things lead to believe that placing Buffy in the class 1 strength category is not a stretch. So these two are equal in strength. 1 ton is liftable for both.

Agility... Buffy has caught a crossbow bolt flying through the air. Slayers in general have shown capable of dodging bullets at point blank range, as well as tranquilizer darts at point blank range. Buffy once set off a bear trap, but pulled her foot out before it snapped shut. I looked for examples of Blade's superhuman agility, but couldn't find anything. So unless someone else can come up with something to match, edge to Buffy.

Fighting skills... really this is what it comes down to. And you guys are way overstating Blade's training here. I checked up the Marvel wiki on this. Blade fashioned himself into a vampire hunter "before adulthood", after being raised in a brothel. So... 13-14? About the same age as Buffy, actually. And nowhere does it say anything about spending time with anyone training any spectacular amount. He's quoted as being a "master martial artist." at adulthood. But the actual time spent training is off-panel and off-screen.

Buffy was trained from 15 or so until roughly 2005-ish (that's about the timeframe that I'm assuming this fight happens.) But beyond her training, slayers get instinctive combat knowledge and technique. In the episode Tabula Rasa, an amnesiac Buffy kills several vampires with no knowledge of her training or abilities at all. She simply does it. Slayers have the "collective experience of all slayers before them". So Buffy's training and experience are supplemented by ancestral and instinctive knowledge that spans back to the creation of humankind. Is this shown frequently? No. But it is included in Buffy Summers. Anyway, at 10 years of training I'd say Buffy is a master martial artist, especially considering that Slayers have inbuilt knowledge, and simply learn combat faster than the average human. I give the edge to Buffy. Blade is quoted as being a master martial artist. Buffy is a master martial artist, and knows combat on an instinctive level. This is shown in the series, on screen.

Weapons. As said before, if the fight is at range, Blade obviously wins. But this is in a warehouse. Tons of places to hide, sneak, and dodge. Buffy can dodge bullets- though I wouldn't say indefinitely. He opens fire, she ducks behind some crates. The fight's going to go melee. It's Blade's katana. A cool sword that he's an expert with. Buffy's Scythe. A mythical, ancient weapon that is magical in nature, sharp to a ridiculous level, bladed on multiple sides, that Buffy feels a magical bond with, and that increases her fighting abilities in general. The exact nature of what it does are not revealed. But the thing is magical, and after getting it Buffy is seen slicing through enemies that she had a lot of problems with beforehand.

To note, I'm going off of the comic backstory and abilities for Blade. But he doesn't win out in any category. Buffy has the edge in melee, and this fight is going to be decided in melee.

And with that, I'm pretty much done on the topic. I don't like arguments in vs. debates x.x. Nothing ever feels proven, and everyone gets a weird 'us vs them' mentality. Those are my points for why I feel Buffy wins the fight. But I'm not really interested in picking this up over and over again to touch on the same points; I only did it this time because the premise I was operating under in my first few posts were apparently incorrect. However, if we are transporting these guys from their respective dimensions... then Buffy still wins.

Movie Blade, I donno. He should theoretically be constrained to the same abilities as in the comics. But I doubt that what's on-screen leads us to believe this is true. However, I don't feel comfortable giving Blade the fight simply because his movie had more money than Buffy's show did for effects.


A point on agility. Deacon Frost specifically states that blade has all of the strengths of a vampire. . . .30 seconds before he dodges automatic weapon fire. As I said in an earlier post, I dont know if thats standard level of skill, or if its a parlor trick that can only be done by a vamp that is prepared and expecting it. Lets face it, lots of vamps get shot by blade, however, his most common weapons seem to be shotguns, hence, a spread of silver buckshot which would be hard to dodge, or automatic weapon fire, so spray and pray. But the fact that he was capable of it at all should show they have at least some level of superhuman agility.

I honestly cant quantify their relative stats, I can only go by visual approximations of power and skill. Thats why I say blade wins. Its not because he is 10x stronger than a human while buffy is 9.5x, or he can move 2mph faster, its because when I watch buffy fight, its always a fight. The vamps get hits in sometimes, and she usually has some form of struggle in her fights, even against newbie vamps and vamp mooks. Blade on the other hand literally carves a path through them. 1 or 100 it doesnt matter, he just seems to casually obliterate anything below the level of named mook or bbeg.

Even the named mooks generally arent that impressive against him. Take reinhart from blade 2. After beating about 15 heavily armored mooks to death with his bare hands and scavenged weapons he takes from the mooks he kills, he casually walks up to him, takes his sword out of reinharts hands, and cuts him in half like a punk.

jidasfire
2012-01-09, 10:08 PM
Buffy is fairly impressive as heroes go, though I give it to Blade because he regularly survives the horrors of the Marvel Universe, compared to which the Buffyverse seems rather tame.

Callos_DeTerran
2012-01-09, 10:13 PM
A point on agility. Deacon Frost specifically states that blade has all of the strengths of a vampire. . . .30 seconds before he dodges automatic weapon fire. As I said in an earlier post, I dont know if thats standard level of skill, or if its a parlor trick that can only be done by a vamp that is prepared and expecting it.

Deacon Frost isn't the standard vampire, either before or after his transformation into the 'Blood God'. He studied Blade for a long time, obviously kept fit himself, and was likely expecting to push that one button that would get Blade to fire on him in the middle of a public street while he was holding a child hostage. Does that make it any less impressive that he dodged automatic fire?

Nope, but there's a reason you only see about a grand total of three people in the Blade movies dodge bullets (Nomak, Frost, and Dracula (I think at least) for the record). If anything though, it still underlies a fundamental point, that even for Bladeverse vampires, Blade is exceptional. Vampires are still faster, stronger, etc. then normal people and demonstrate it at times, but let's face it...most vampires that Blade carves through are the equivalent of...like...college kids or ravers among their kind. They aren't the cream of the vampire crop by a long shot and almost none of them are purebloods for the most part.

They are still faster, stronger, etc. then all but exceptionally skilled humans though.

Blade has all of their strengths, as has been noted before, but he continues to push his limits. He's a vampire that exercises his abilities and pushes his limits to be a better hunter. Even trained vampires don't last against Blade, at most they just put up a fight but they rarely get a blow in despite training. Blade is above all but the most exceptional vampires/reapers. While other vampires in his world are going to blood raver parties, getting familiars, and enjoying their newfound immortality-like existence because, hey, they don't need to train to be able to kill humans, Blade is pushing himself constantly. It's not even really accurate to say Blade has all the vampire's strengths in his verse, he exceeds them. Hence Dracula saying Blade was the future of vampire kind.

Zaydos
2012-01-09, 10:27 PM
If you looked up Blade's strength I'm guessing that was the Marvel Comics Database. Which conveniently notes Blade has Superhuman Agility and Speed (faster than even the finest human athlete), and also that he is over 80 years old (he was born in 1929). So he has been training daily for 70 years. Also strength isn't directly additive; especially with something like lifting a portcullis where position and form matter a lot (and 6 men working together aren't going to have position or form). Look at world's strongest man competitions and such, proper form increases lifting capabilities greatly.

Going to my first experience with Blade would be from Spider-Man the Animated Series from the mid 90s. Cutting down the wall of text; he holds his own in grappling against Spider-Man, and Morbius (separately) even after Morbius gets a power boost. Also Blade has a beam sword.

Honestly, though, I'd say they're rather evenly matched.

Kyberwulf
2012-01-09, 11:32 PM
We are not ascribing to much abilty to Blade. He does train alot as evident cause he kicks alot of ass.

I think your giving inherient abilities to much credit, Splynn. Sure it helps out alot. Its not the end all and be all of abilities though. Countless Slayers exisited before, and undoubtitedly will after, as evident by Frey. I think the average life span of a Slayer once chosen... is something like two years. Thats with all the training and Inherient knowlege. Let's face it, she would have died MANY times over, if she didn't have her friends to bail her out. She constintly neglected training, to go to parties, to go to school, to just sit around. When she did go to her training, Giles was constintly on her case about not putting any effort into her training.

Traab
2012-01-09, 11:40 PM
We are not ascribing to much abilty to Blade. He does train alot as evident cause he kicks alot of ass.

I think your giving inherient abilities to much credit, Splynn. Sure it helps out alot. Its not the end all and be all of abilities though. Countless Slayers exisited before, and undoubtitedly will after, as evident by Frey. I think the average life span of a Slayer once chosen... is something like two years. Thats with all the training and Inherient knowlege. Let's face it, she would have died MANY times over, if she didn't have her friends to bail her out. She constintly neglected training, to go to parties, to go to school, to just sit around. When she did go to her training, Giles was constintly on her case about not putting any effort into her training.

Technically speaking, she would have died before the tv series even started if her watcher hadnt sacrificed himself for her. Then she would have died in season 1 if xander hadnt performed cpr.

thubby
2012-01-09, 11:53 PM
one thing i dont think has been mentioned. blade is just bigger.

it doesnt matter how much supernatural strength you have, if something weighing a lot more than you hits you, you move.

all other things being reasonably close, that lets him control the fight.

Kyberwulf
2012-01-09, 11:55 PM
Yeah, I just realized... Buffy isn't all that special.. there has always been someone around to take the hit, then do her job for her.

Nightmarenny
2012-01-10, 12:02 AM
Yeah, I just realized... Buffy isn't all that special.. there has always been someone around to take the hit, then do her job for her.

When? I guess season Seven and she wasn't really involved in six's climax. She was the last guardian of the Seed. She was the only one who could do what was necessary at the end of at the end of Five, Two and One and three and four were a group effort.

Buffy's special-ness comes more for her ability to make the impossible choice and accept responsibility as well as her ability to rally people to her side so you are right that her powers arn't that special.

Traab
2012-01-10, 12:08 AM
When? I guess season Seven and she wasn't really involved in six's climax. She was the last guardian of the Seed. She was the only one who could do what was necessary at the end of at the end of Five, Two and One and three and four were a group effort.

Buffy's special-ness comes more for her ability to make the impossible choice and accept responsibility as well as her ability to rally people to her side so you are right that her powers arn't that special.

A big point of her show, well, one of the big points, was that she only survived because she had friends, help, and support beyond a single watcher and near total isolation. As someone stated earlier, the slayers tended to die fast, and constantly. You would think the watchers council would have been a bit smarter and realized, "Hey, our slayers keep dying in under 2 years of service. Sure another one is always called, but shouldnt we maybe think of ways to improve their lifespans?" Sure the slayer is awesome, but this one only survived past season one due to her friends and support. and plot armor

Mewtarthio
2012-01-10, 12:10 AM
Buffy's special-ness comes more for her ability to make the impossible choice and accept responsibility

I'll note that she failed to make the impossible choice in Season Five. She went catatonic instead of facing that choice, and when she came back to reality, she was still willing to watch the world die rather than sacrifice Dawn. If it hadn't been for that last second "We share the same blood!" thing, the apocalypse would have proceeded as scheduled (and Dawn would have died anyway).

Kyberwulf
2012-01-10, 12:11 AM
? did we watch the same show? she was constitintly running AWAY from having to make the impossible choice. She was always being selfish about everything that happen. Most episodes where her hiding.. and then .. at the end of everything she would begrudingly do what she had to, cuase her hand was forced.

Nightmarenny
2012-01-10, 12:14 AM
A big point of her show, well, one of the big points, was that she only survived because she had friends, help, and support beyond a single watcher and near total isolation. As someone stated earlier, the slayers tended to die fast, and constantly. You would think the watchers council would have been a bit smarter and realized, "Hey, our slayers keep dying in under 2 years of service. Sure another one is always called, but shouldnt we maybe think of ways to improve their lifespans?" Sure the slayer is awesome, but this one only survived past season one due to her friends and support. and plot armor

Yeah but the Watchers council is more concerned with keeping the Slayer in check and control. We see in every interaction with them that they put a load of time and effort into putting the Slayer done and making sure she stay submissive to her watcher and the council.

Nightmarenny
2012-01-10, 12:19 AM
? did we watch the same show? she was constitintly running AWAY from having to make the impossible choice. She was always being selfish about everything that happen. Most episodes where her hiding.. and then .. at the end of everything she would begrudingly do what she had to, cuase her hand was forced.

Buffy only really becomes that person later. In the beginning she is a child and runs like you would expect.Her first taste of of this is at the end two when she killed angle and then the end of five where she chooses to save Damn and the world with her own life. Granted as Mewtarthio points out she only does so having failed to prevent Damns use in the first place.

By 7 she runs the show and by the end of Seven she deserves it. She makes the calls a general would at the end of 8 she destroys the Seed knowing the scorn she will receive. Its a journey

Traab
2012-01-10, 12:23 AM
I still say the whole glory debacle was stupid. Once they knew about dawn, once they knew about the ritual and what would happen. LEAVE TOWN! Didnt it have to be done at a specific time? Be gone for that day and the problem is solved. Yes you have a pissed off hell goddess after you, but at least she cant destroy the dimension for another several thousand years!

Nightmarenny
2012-01-10, 12:25 AM
I don't think it need a specific day.

They did leave town though. I forget why they came back. Because Dawn was taken? Also maybe someone should start a buffy thread since we've veered away from this thread.

EDIT: Yup read this Episode Spiral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_(Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer))

The Scoobies leave town and Glory runs after them and captures Damn.

Traab
2012-01-10, 12:40 AM
I don't think it need a specific day.

They did leave town though. I forget why they came back. Because Dawn was taken? Also maybe someone should start a buffy thread since we've veered away from this thread.

EDIT: Yup read this Episode Spiral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_(Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer))

The Scoobies leave town and Glory runs after them and captures Damn.

Not so much ran after them, as they gave her a freaking lift, since she shifted back to ben mode. Ah well, it was a good idea, just pure bad luck that it failed.

Avilan the Grey
2012-01-10, 03:05 AM
However, if we are making this a situation where one or the other moves through dimensions into the other world, and they face off in that scenario...

That's how I saw the scenario to begin with. If they are not in the same 'verse to begin with, this is what happens. Or they get transported to a neutral universe.


Agility... Buffy has caught a crossbow bolt flying through the air. Slayers in general have shown capable of dodging bullets at point blank range, as well as tranquilizer darts at point blank range. Buffy once set off a bear trap, but pulled her foot out before it snapped shut. I looked for examples of Blade's superhuman agility, but couldn't find anything. So unless someone else can come up with something to match, edge to Buffy.

He is quick enough to slap a vampire, repeatedly. You know, teasing him.


Fighting skills... really this is what it comes down to. And you guys are way overstating Blade's training here. I checked up the Marvel wiki on this. Blade fashioned himself into a vampire hunter "before adulthood", after being raised in a brothel. So... 13-14? About the same age as Buffy, actually. And nowhere does it say anything about spending time with anyone training any spectacular amount. He's quoted as being a "master martial artist." at adulthood. But the actual time spent training is off-panel and off-screen.

And?


Blade is quoted as being a master martial artist. Buffy is a master martial artist, and knows combat on an instinctive level. This is shown in the series, on screen.

We agree with you, which is why we believe Blade would win. Because quite frankly the level of skill Buffy DOES display is inferior to the skill Blade does display. And for the record, Blade's skill is also shown on the screen. I don't understand how you can watch three movies and a TV series and say it isn't?


Weapons. As said before, if the fight is at range, Blade obviously wins. But this is in a warehouse. Tons of places to hide, sneak, and dodge. Buffy can dodge bullets- though I wouldn't say indefinitely. He opens fire, she ducks behind some crates. The fight's going to go melee. It's Blade's katana. A cool sword that he's an expert with. Buffy's Scythe. A mythical, ancient weapon that is magical in nature, sharp to a ridiculous level, bladed on multiple sides, that Buffy feels a magical bond with, and that increases her fighting abilities in general. The exact nature of what it does are not revealed. But the thing is magical, and after getting it Buffy is seen slicing through enemies that she had a lot of problems with beforehand.

So with the scythe she is almost as good as he is? (I will also go on record and state that that weapon is an AX. A bearded one, to be precise. Whoever named it a scythe is a moron).


To note, I'm going off of the comic backstory and abilities for Blade. But he doesn't win out in any category. Buffy has the edge in melee, and this fight is going to be decided in melee.

See again, this is where we disagree. I have seen no evidence of her being at his level, fighting wise. I admit I have never seen her use her "scythe".


Movie Blade, I donno. He should theoretically be constrained to the same abilities as in the comics. But I doubt that what's on-screen leads us to believe this is true. However, I don't feel comfortable giving Blade the fight simply because his movie had more money than Buffy's show did for effects.

TV series Blade also shows more skill than TV series Buffy. So the budget has nothing to do with it.

Killer Angel
2012-01-10, 04:04 AM
He's not though. Somebody linked to the conversation he had with Deacon Frost - he only saves the girl AFTER he unloads his pistol's clip at the fleeing Frost.
Saving people is an afterthought - he'd prefer to kill vampires.

Still, in the first encounter with Drake, his concern was for the baby held in hostage.


He is quick enough to slap a vampire, member of a special forces team of the vamp's elite, repeatedly. You know, teasing him.


Fixed. :smallsmile:

dehro
2012-01-10, 11:48 AM
shame that the OP negates the eventuality..
I can totally see the shock value of an ungodly pairing between those two...resulting in ..

Bluffy?

SDF
2012-01-10, 12:21 PM
one thing i dont think has been mentioned. blade is just bigger.

it doesnt matter how much supernatural strength you have, if something weighing a lot more than you hits you, you move.

all other things being reasonably close, that lets him control the fight.

I highlighted the part where that argument falls apart. (plus think of the catgirls)

Buffy as a show is a metaphor for how it sucks to grow up and all the crap kids and young adults have to go through, with well written stories and interesting characters.

Blade is a terrible movie series where Wesley Snipes makes one liners and breaks everything. Of course he is going to win, that is the point of the character.

Unless Buffy hits him with the rocket launcher...

Avilan the Grey
2012-01-10, 03:31 PM
I highlighted the part where that argument falls apart. (plus think of the catgirls)

Buffy as a show is a metaphor for how it sucks to grow up and all the crap kids and young adults have to go through, with well written stories and interesting characters.

Blade is a terrible movie series where Wesley Snipes makes one liners and breaks everything. Of course he is going to win, that is the point of the character.

Unless Buffy hits him with the rocket launcher...

Buffy... no. Buffy started as a fun show about inverted gender stereotypes and kickass vampire killing and ending in an over-written mess. Sort of everything Joss writes.

Blade is a badass kickass vampire hero kicking ass and taking names heads.

Only the third movie was bad.

edit: where does the argument fall apart? It is about momentum and leverage. The fact that Blade is of the same strength or stronger is a different matter.

SDF
2012-01-10, 03:54 PM
Well I disagree on your taste, but Whedon has stated as much about Buffy himself. (http://www.alterna-tv.com/buffyverse/joss.htm)

And the argument falls apart where the strength is supernatural. Physics and magic don't have a strong correlation.

MammonAzrael
2012-01-10, 04:24 PM
Well I disagree on your taste, but Whedon has stated as much about Buffy himself. (http://www.alterna-tv.com/buffyverse/joss.htm)

And the argument falls apart where the strength is supernatural. Physics and magic don't have a strong correlation.

Super-strength allows you to generate more force than you would normal be able to. That doesn't change your mass or what you're braced against.

For example, if the Hulk and Thing were fighting, and one hit the other with a devastating uppercut, the one hit would go flying. It doesn't matter how strong they are, because the amount of force they were subjected to lifts them off the ground and they have no method for bracing themselves. Likewise if Buffy is smacked by something supernaturally strong in any direction other than downwards, she'll go flying because she just doesn't weigh that much. She might be able to absorb the blow or not be all that damaged, but she's still taking a trip. (and to be fair, the same applies to Blade)

Admittedly this isn't something we see very often in media, but killing catgirls is fun. (and feel free to correct my very loose use of physics, I'm unsure of the proper terms, but it should convey the general idea). The only time super strength is going to help in preventing yourself from flying from a huge hit is if you have something like superman's flight abilities, allowing you to brace yourself on something other than the ground.

Zen Monkey
2012-01-10, 04:45 PM
Buffy... no. Buffy started as a fun show about inverted gender stereotypes and kickass vampire killing and ending in an over-written mess. Sort of everything Joss writes.

Didn't Buffy start as a bad comedy where a valley girl cheerleader stereotype fights silly ineffective vampires like Pee-Wee Herman?

turkishproverb
2012-01-10, 08:10 PM
that was the movie, not the show.

Traab
2012-01-10, 08:16 PM
that was the movie, not the show.

Yeah, the buffy show is the grimdark version of my little pony. In it we learn that friendship is magic, as its the only thing stopping almost everyone from dying and keeping the world spinning on its axis and in its dimension.

Starbuck_II
2012-01-10, 10:53 PM
Yeah, the buffy show is the grimdark version of my little pony. In it we learn that friendship is magic, as its the only thing stopping almost everyone from dying and keeping the world spinning on its axis and in its dimension.

Yes, that sums it up. Especially the coma episode when she had to choose her old world with parents or Sunnydale.

Kyberwulf
2012-01-10, 11:50 PM
I hated that episode. It made it, so in my mind, the WHOLE series was just a ... Suckerpuch-esqe plot.

Mewtarthio
2012-01-11, 01:51 AM
Yeah, the buffy show is the grimdark version of my little pony. In it we learn that friendship is magic, as its the only thing stopping almost everyone from dying and keeping the world spinning on its axis and in its dimension.

Of course, friendship is also tragic, since friends can be tortured and killed to make make you suffer, and you will be forced to put down your loved ones on an alarmingly frequent basis.