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View Full Version : The Magic User - A New Look [D&D 3.5, System Musings & Base Class]



Ziegander
2012-01-05, 09:26 PM
The Skinny
Vancian casting. The spellbook. The prepared "fire and forget" casting. We have all come to accept that this "makes sense" for Wizards in D&D. But... why? I'm not sure, but let's face it, none of these rules let us play Merlin or Gandalf. What I propose, and it's not exactly a new idea (I know someone else has worked on something similar before), is a new class with a new casting system that operates, in loose terms, like a mashup of incarnum, invocations, and psionics.

How it Works
The casting system starts with Spell Points. Spells have a SP cost, and, depending on the spell, that amount of SP must either be Open, Invested, or Burnt. Otherwise, spells can be used "at-will," the exception being that if you've invested or burnt all of your SP, then you can't cast any other spells until you either reallocate or recover your SP. Reallocating invested SP requires dismissing a spell with invested SP, and then casting a new spell that you invest the SP in (this is usually a free action + the new spell's casting time). Recovering burnt SP requires 8 hours of rest.

Putting it Together
So, for example, a 5th level Wizard might have the Burning Blade (1 SP), Sleep (1 SP), Barkskin (2 SP), and Fireball (3 SP) spells and 10 total SP. Burning Blade requires only that 1 SP be open to use and Barkskin requires that 2 SP be invested, while Sleep requires 1 SP to be burnt and Fireball requires 3 SP to be burnt. As long as he has 2 SP invested in Barkskin and 1 SP open he can benefit from Barkskin and cast Burning Blade all day. Even keeping those 3 untouched, the Wizard still has 7 SP for the day to burn between Sleep and Fireball.

What it Means
So, with a casting system like this, I feel, that a character is produced that feels more like a manipulator of magical forces rather than a studious bookworm. The Spell Point pool represents exactly how much magic the Wizard is able to manipulate for his various tasks, while his spells known represent the various ways the Wizard has learned to manipulate magic, and his ability to shift that magic power around as circumstances arise represents a more fluid grasp of his magic. To me, this feels much more like the various magic users we've read about in fiction and fantasy. More than that, it allows for buffs to be applied outside of combat, making them more usable without having to jump through hoops.

Using this casting system, I'd like to work out a single Wizard class that can be used to represent archetypes from the Priest that casts divine spells granted by his god(s), the Druid that harnesses the magic power of nature, and the highborn Sorcerer wielding the eldritch power flowing through his very veins. This means that there would be just one master list of spells. If I were feeling ambitious it would be entirely possible to devise alternate class features like "Cleric," "Druid," or "Sorcerer," and even some unique spells usable only be those ACFs, but it isn't at all necessary. There's no reason a Wizard of this type can't heal wounds and shoot lightning bolts.

The Wizard

http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/maverick0023/490e4875459657cdbc7b1681f206cfd6.jpg?v=164009

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d6

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Spells Known|
Spell Points

1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Spells (1st), Magic Missile (+0, 1d6)|
4|
4

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Arcane Resistance|
5|
5

3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Magic Missile (+1, 2d6)|
6|
6

4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Spells (2th)|
7|
8

5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Magic Missile (+1, 3d6)|
8|
10

6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Spells (3th)|
9|
12

7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Magic Missile (+2, 4d6)|
10|
14

8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|Spells (4th)|
11|
16

9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Magic Missile (+2, 5d6)|
12|
18

10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Spells (5th)|
13|
20

11th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Magic Missile (+3, 6d6)|
14|
22

12th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8|Spells (6th)|
15|
24

13th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8|Magic Missile (+3, 7d6)|
16|
26

14th|+7/+2|+4|+4|+9|Spells (7th)|
17|
28

15th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+9|Magic Missile (+4, 8d6)|
18|
30

16th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10|Spells (8th)|
19|
32

17th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10|Magic Missile (+4, 9d6)|
20|
34

18th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Spells (9th)|
21|
36

19th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Magic Missile (+5, 10d6)|
22|
38

20th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Spells (10th)|
24|
40
[/table]

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier): Appraise, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Any), Listen, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Spot, and Use Magic Device.

Weapon & Armor Proficiencies
A Wizard is proficient with all simple weapons, but is not proficient with any armors or shields. Neither weapons nor armor interfere with any gestures the Wizard needs to make to cast his spells should he choose to gain rudimentary martial training.

Spells
You begin play with the knowledge of all Cantrips and of four 1st level spells. As you gain levels you learn new spells as shown in the table above. Spells have a Spell Point cost equal to their spell level, and this cost may be represented as Open, Invest, or Burn, depending on the spell.

You may cast spells you know any number of times per day as long as you are able to pay the spell's cost.

All spells you cast have a saving throw DC of 10 + 1/2 your level + your Charisma modifier. In order to cast a spell you must have an Intelligence score equal to, at least, 10 + spell level. You cannot cast spells with an alignment descriptor that isn't shared by your alignment. You may gain bonus Spell Points per day based on a high Wisdom modifier (+1 SP per point of Wisdom modifier, max +1 SP per spell level).

At 4th level and every two levels thereafter you may choose to lose a spell known in order to learn a new spell up to one level lower than the highest spell level you are able to cast.

Magic Missile (Sp): As a standard action you may make a ranged touch attack against a creature or object within Medium range (100ft + 10ft/caster level) to deal 1d6 damage of your choice between cold, electricity, or fire damage. At every odd level after 1st the damage dealt by your Magic Missile increases by 1d6. You may split the damage dealt by a Magic Missile between multiple targets, making a separate ranged touch attack roll for each target, and dividing the damage dice between targets as you see fit.

A Magic Missile attack gains a bonus to the attack roll equal to 1/2 the number of damage dice it deals, rounded down (so 1d6 gets a +0 bonus, but 2d6 gets a +1 bonus). If you choose to divide the targets of your Magic Missile attack, each separate attack roll receives the full bonus (so if your Magic Missile deals a total of 6d6 damage and you split that between three targets, each attack roll gets a +3 bonus).

This is a spell-like ability with an equivalent spell level equal to the number of damage dice it deals.

Arcane Resistance (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, you gain a bonus to saving throws against spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities equal to your Intelligence modifier. Furthermore, when a creature you threaten uses a supernatural ability, that creature provokes an attack of opportunity from you.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cantrips

All Cantrips are 0-level spells and as such have a cost of 0 SP. Therefore they can be cast at-will and have no Open, Invest, or Burn distinctions.

Acid Splash, Arcane Mark, Cure Minor Wounds*, Dancing Lights, Daze, Ghost Sound, Know Direction, Light, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Ray of Frost, and Resistance.

*
Cure Minor Wounds
Necromancy (Healing) [Life]
Level: 0
Cost: 0
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Target: 1 Creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)

Your touch cures the target of 1 hit point damage. This spell can't be used on creatures with fewer than 75% of their maximum hit points, and must be used on a creature within 1 minute of it being dealt damage.

Ziegander
2012-01-05, 09:27 PM
Spells

1st Level

Aura of Menace
ENCHANTMENT [Fear]
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Effect: Burst, 30ft radius

While your SP are invested in this spell you project an aura out to 30ft that causes each creature in the area that is Hostile to you to suffer a -1 morale penalty to attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks and saving throws until that enemy successfully hits you with an attack. If an enemy does it is immune to this effect for 24 hours.

Aura of Competence
ENCHANTMENT (Morale)
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Effect: Burst, 30ft

While your SP are invested in this spell you project an aura out to 30ft that grants any creatures in the area Friendly to you a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, and saving throws.

Bolster
TRANSMUTATION
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Invest; see text
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 Swift Action
Range: Personal
Target: You

While your SP are invested in this spell you gain 5 temporary hit points, + 1 per caster level. If you lose a portion of these temp hp, but not all of them, and dismiss the spell, then, unless you've taken an Extended Rest (8 hours of sleep for most creatures), the next time you invest SP in this spell you gain only the remaining temp hp from the last time the spell ended. If you lose all of these temp hp, then the spell immediately ends and the SP invested in it are burned.

Breath of the Night
CONJURATION (Creation)
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Invest
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 Swift Action
Range: Personal
Effect: Burst, 30ft radius

A misty vapor rises around you obscuring all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5ft. A creature 5ft away has concealment (20% miss chance), while creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, cannot locate by sight).

A moderate wind (11+ mph) can disperse the mist for 1 round, but it returns on your next action and persists as long as your SP remain invested in this spell. Similarly, any effect that deals fire damage disperses mist in its area of effect for 1 round. A torch, for example, or flaming weapon, clears mist from its bearer's space. A torch or flaming weapon has the added benefit of granting its bearer the ability to see 10ft from its space and removing concealment from creatures in that area.

Cause Fear
ENCHANTMENT [Fear]
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Open
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/two levels)
Target: 1 Creature
Duration: 24 hours; see text
Saving Throw: Will negates

The targeted creature becomes Shaken. If the targeted creature's HD are fewer than your caster level, then it becomes Frightened. This effect lasts for 24 hours or until you fail a saving throw or are hit by an attack. This spell has no effect on a creature that is already Shaken, Frightened, or Panicked.

Command
ENCHANTMENT (Compulsion) (Language-Dependent) [Lawful, Mind-Affecting]
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Open
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Long (400ft + 40ft/level)
Target: 1 Creature
Duration: 1 round
Saving Throw: Will negates

As normal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/command.htm).

Cure Light Wounds
NECROMANCY (Healing) [Life]
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/two levels)
Target: 1 Creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)

The targeted creature is cured of 10 + your caster level hit points and of 1 point of ability damage. You may burn additional SP to cure 1d10 additional hit points and 1 additional ability damage per SP burned. You may not burn more SP in this way than the highest level spell you are able to cast.

This spell cures all creatures whether they are living, undead, or constructed. This spell can't be used on a creature with fewer than 50% of its maximum hit points.

Dark Speech: Pain
EVOCATION [Evil]
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Burn
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/two levels)
Target: 1 Creature
Duration: Permanent; see text
Saving Throw: Fort negates; see text

At the beginning of each of the targeted creature's turns it is dealt 1 uptyped damage. Each time the targeted creature is dealt damage it must succeed on a Fortitude save to avoid being Nauseated from the pain for 1 round. This spell ends when the targeted creature succeeds on one of these saving throws.

Devil's Sight
TRANSMUTATION
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Target: You

While your SP are invested in this spell you gain Darkvision out to 120ft and can see even in magical darkness within 60ft.

Eldritch Spear
EVOCATION [Force]
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Open
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Long (400ft + 40ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures; see text

Make one or more ranged touch attacks as if you were using your Magic Missile ability, except that the damage dealt is force and the range increases from Medium to Long (as shown above).

Leaps and Bounds
TRANSMUTATION
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Invest
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 Swift Action
Range: Personal
Target: You

While your SP are invested in this spell, you gain a +3 competence bonus to Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks. This bonus increases by +1/two levels (max +10).

Mage's Armor
EVOCATION [Force]
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Effect: Field of Magical Force

While your SP are invested in this spell you are surrounded by a field of magical force that takes the appearance of sleek, translucent armor plates that grants you a +2 armor bonus to AC (no max Dex, no check penalty) and a +2 deflection bonus to AC. The armor bonus granted by this spell increases to +3 at caster level 5th and higher, and to +4 at caster level 15th and higher. The deflection bonus granted by this spell increases to +3 at caster level 10th and higher, and to +4 at caster level 20th and higher.

Mage's Sword
EVOCATION
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Open
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Target: Melee Weapon Touched
Duration: Instantaneous

As you cast the spell choose [Cold], [Electricity], or [Fire] damage. This spell gains the descriptor of the chosen type. Make a single attack with the touched weapon. For this attack, that weapon receives an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to the bonus to attack rolls your Magic Missile weapon gets (the weapon is treated as a magic weapon if it receives an enhancement bonus of at least +1), and deals extra damage of the chosen energy type equal to the number of damage dice your Magic Missile ability would deal.

Power Word: Sleep
ENCHANTMENT [Mind-Affecting]
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Burn
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/two level)
Effect: 1 Creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fort negates; see text

The targeted creature becomes Fatigued until it is able to rest for 8 hours. If that creature's current hit points are fewer than or equal to 5 times your caster level, then it does not get a saving throw to negate this effect.

A creature that is already Fatigued becomes Exhausted until it rests for 1 hour. A creature that is already Exhausted falls asleep (Unconscious) for 1d8 hours. This sleep counts toward any rest needed to remove the Fatigued or Exhausted conditions. A sleeping creature can be awakened by an adjacent creature with a standard action through a touch or a slap. Damaging a sleeping creature awakens it as well. A creature that is prematurely awakened is likely to want to return to sleep at its earliest opportunity.

Shield of Faith
EVOCATION [Chaotic, Evil, Good, Lawful]
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal or Touch
Target: You or Creature Touched
Duration: 1 Minute/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)

Upon completion of this spell choose either a single alignment or a single creature Type. If you choose an alignment, this spell gains the descriptor that corresponds to that alignment's opposition (if you choose Evil, the the spell gains the [Good] descriptor). This spell wards the target from attacks by creatures of the chosen alignment or Type, protecting the target from physical harm, from mental control, and from summoned creatures. It creates a magical barrier around the subject at a distance of 1ft. The barrier moves with the subject and has three major effects.

First, against attacks made or effects created by creatures of the chosen alignment or Type, the subject gains a +2 deflection bonus to AC and a +2 resistance bonus on saves.

Second, the barrier blocks any attempt by creatures of the chosen alignment or Type made to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or any Charm or Compulsion effects that grant a creature of the chosen alignment or Type ongoing control over the subject. The protection does not prevent such effects from targeting the protected creature, but it suppresses the effect for Shield of Faith's duration. If the spell ends before the effect granting mental control does, the would-be controller would then be able to mentally command the controlled creature. Likewise, the barrier keeps out a possessing life force but does not expel one if it is in place before the spell is cast.

Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures of the chosen alignment or Type. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Spell resistance can allow a summoned creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature.

Summon Monster
CONJURATION (Compulsion) (Summoning)
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Full-Round Action
Range: 30ft; see text
Effect: Summoned Creature(s)
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level

This spell summons one or more creatures you are familiar with that have a combined CR no greater than 1, using esoteric magics to pull it from its normal space/time to your own. Familiarity is generally determined through personal experience, such as fighting the creature(s), or through research, such as making an appropriate Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm) check to identify the creature(s).

You may burn additional SP to summon more powerful creatures with this spell, adding 1 to the combined total CR of creatures summoned per SP burned beyond the initial one used to cast the spell. You can't burn more SP on this spell than the highest level spell you are able to cast.

The summoned creature appears in the nearest open space within 30ft of you. If there is no open space the spell fails (but you don't burn any SP).

You may use this spell to summon any creature you are familiar with, even specific creatures, such as Johan the Tailor, but you may only summon willing creatures in this way. A creature with Intelligence 3 or less is always willing to be summoned, otherwise you immediately know whether your intended summon is willing or not (before you burn SP).

You can only control a creature summoned in this way if it's Intelligence is 3 or less or if it's Mindless. Otherwise a summoned creature is free to act as it pleases. You cannot use this spell to summon a creature that is immune to Compulsion effects.

Creatures summoned in this way return to their personal space/time once the spell ends or if they are reduced to 0 hit points (which consequently ends the spell). Ongoing effects affecting the summoned creature and all damage dealt to the summoned creature are removed when the spell ends and when the summoned creature returns to their space/time it is as if no time had passed for them (though they do have recollection of events that happened while they were summoned).


2nd Level

Create Homunculus
NECROMANCY (Creation) [Life]
Level: 2nd
Cost: 2 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: 40lbs of plant matter touched
Duration: Instantaneous

This spell infuses a pile of kindling with a semblance of life, creating a simple Construct called a Homunculus (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Homunculus). The Wisdom and Charisma scores of a Homunculus are always 6 and it's Intelligence score is always 4 lower than your own, but you may assign a 15 and a 13 as you see fit between its Strength and Dexterity scores. As a Construct, the Homunculus doesn't have a Constitution score. You do not specifically control a Homunculus created in this way, but it's starting attitude toward you and your allies is usually positive (50% chance of starting Helpful, 20% chance of starting Friendly, 15% chance of starting Indifferent, 10% chance of starting Unfriendly, 5% chance of starting Hostile).

You may burn additional SP to create more powerful Homunculi with this spell, adding 1 HD per SP burned beyond the initial two used to cast the spell. You can't burn more SP on this spell than the highest level spell you are able to cast. Each additional HD requires 10 additional lbs of plant matter for the target.

You choose what skills and feats a Homunculus you create has. For every three HD a Homunculus has it gains a new feat. For every four HD a Homunculus has, increase one of its ability scores by 1.

Darkness
EVOCATION [Shadow]
Level: 2nd
Cost: 2 Burn
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Effect: Burst, 30ft radius
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level

All light in the affected area is snuffed out, creating utter blackness in its wake. All creatures in the area without Darkvision are blinded by the darkness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#darkness) as long as they remain in the area. Creatures with Darkvision are not blinded, but their vision is reduced to one-half its normal range, their movement is reduced to 3/4 normal speed, and they suffer a 20% miss chance even against creatures they can see as the magical darkness hampers even their superior senses.

Darkness counters and dispels any [Radiant] spell of equal or lower spell level.

Entropic Shield
EVOCATION
Level: 2nd
Cost: 2 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Target: You

While your SP are invested into the spell, you gain a 20% miss chance against all ranged attacks, including rays and even siege weapons and giant rocks.

Freezing Ray
EVOCATION [Cold]
Level: 2nd
Cost: 2 Open
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures; see text
Duration: Instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw: Fort negates; see text

Make one or more ranged touch attacks as if you were using your Magic Missile ability. You must choose to deal cold damage with this spell but deal +1 cold damage per damage die. Any creature dealt damage by one of these attacks must succeed at a Fortitude save to avoid suffering a -2 penalty to Dexterity for 1 minute. This penalty can stack multiple times on a single creature to a maximum of -10.

Invisibility
ILLUSION (Glamer)
Level: 2nd
Cost: 2 Invest
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal or Touch
Target: You or Touched Creature/Object
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)

As normal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibility.htm), except that if the target uses an attack, then the spell is discharged and the SP invested in it are burned.

Lucky Charm
EVOCATION
Level: 2nd
Cost: 2 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Target: Bauble or Charm Touched

When you cast this spell, choose Fortitude, Reflex, or Will. While your SP are invested in this spell, as long as any creature wears the touched bauble or charm around its neck, that creature gains a resistance bonus to the chosen saving throw equal to your Charisma modifier.

Scorching Ray
EVOCATION [Fire]
Level: 2nd
Cost: 2 Open
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures; see text
Duration: Instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw: Reflex partial; see text

Make one or more ranged touch attacks as if you were using your Magic Missile ability. You must choose to deal fire damage with this spell but deal +1 fire damage per damage die. Any creature dealt damage by one of these attacks must succeed at a Reflex save to avoid catching on fire for 1 minute (1d6 fire damage per round, full round action to douse flames).

A creature can catch on fire multiple times from multiple Scorching Rays, stacking the fire damage per round up to half the number of damage dice your Magic Missile deals (max 5d6 per round), but a single full round action always douses all of the flames.

See Invisibility
DIVINATION
Level: 2nd
Cost: 2 Invest
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Target: You

While your SP are invested in this spell, you can see objects or creatures that are invisible within your line of sight. Otherwise, as normal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/seeInvisibility.htm).

Spider Climb
TRANSMUTATION
Level: 2nd
Cost: 2 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Target: You

Otherwise, as normal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spiderClimb.htm).


3rd Level

Cure Moderate Wounds
NECROMANCY (Healing) [Life]
Level: 3rd
Cost: 3 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/two levels)
Target: 1 Creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)

The targeted creature is cured of 5d10 + 10 + your caster level hit points and 2d4 points of ability score damage. You may burn additional SP to cure 2d10 additional hit points and 1d4 additional ability damage per SP burned. You may not burn more SP in this way than the highest level spell you are able to cast.

This spell cures all creatures whether they are living, undead, or constructed. This spell can't be used on a creature with fewer than 25% of its maximum hit points.

Dark Speech: Ruin
EVOCATION [Evil]
Level: 3rd
Cost: 3 Burn
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/two levels)
Target or Effect: 1 solid object or Burst, 5ft radius
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (Object), Fort negates (Creature); see text

Dark Speech: Ruin can be used to destroy a single object weighing no more than 5 lbs per caster level. Unattended, non-magical objects receive no saving throw to resist this effect, but magical objects always do (use the higher of the object's or its bearer's saving throw) as do attended, non-magical objects (use the bearer's saving throw).

Dark Speech: Ruin can also be used to destroy all unattended, non-magical objects within a 5ft radius Burst that weigh no more than 1 lb per caster level each. These objects receive no saving throw to resist this effect.

If an attended object is destroyed in this way, its bearer must also succeed on a Fortitude saving throw to avoid being Deafened for 1 minute as well as Dazed for 1 round.

Dispel Magic
TRANSMUTATION
Level: 3rd
Cost: 3 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Target: 1 Ongoing Spell or 1 Magic Item
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates

This spell prematurely ends the targeted spell or suppresses the magical properties of the targeted item. The controller of the targeted spell or the bearer of the targeted item is entitled to a Will save to negate this effect. An item uses its own Will save if it is unattended or it its save is higher than its bearer's. A suppressed item loses all magical properties for 1 minute. An artifact cannot be suppressed in this way.

You may also use Dispel Magic as a counterspell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#counterspells), but unlike a true counterspell it may not work. The controller of a spell you attempt to counter in this way is entitled to a Will save to negate this effect.

Dispel Magic can be used to end or counter spell-like abilities, but has no effect on supernatural abilities.

If Dispel Magic is used to end a spell with an Invest cost, then the SP invested in it is burned.

Explosive Missile
EVOCATION
Level: 3rd
Cost: 3 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Long (400ft + 40ft/level)
Effect: Burst, 40ft radius
Duration: Instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw: Reflex partial

When you cast this spell choose [Cold], [Electricity], or [Fire]. The spell gains the descriptor of the chosen energy type. Each creature in the area suffers damage of the chosen energy type as if it were hit by your Magic Missile ability and unless it succeeds its Reflex save it suffers an additional effect based on the energy used:


• Cold - A cold Explosive Missile coats the ground within the area with slippery ice (DC 15 Balance check to move half speed) and if a creature fails its save, then it's Immobilized until it succeeds on a Strength check with a DC equal to the save DC. The ice created by this spell melts in an environment warmer than freezing temperature, lasting 4 minutes in the next temperature band above freezing, -1 minute for every temperature band above that (to a minimum of 1 round). In each minute below 4 the Strength check to break free from the ice is reduced by -2.


• Electricity - An electric Explosive Missile charges the area with static electricity for 1 hour. [Electricity] spells in the area are cast at +2 to caster level during that time. Additionally, if a creature fails its save, then it's Staggered for 1 minute by the randomly stuttering currents of electricity running through their nervous system.


• Fire - A fiery Explosive Missile lights the area and the creatures within on fire. The area becomes a short-lived inferno dealing creatures that end their next turns there fire damage equal to the number of damage dice your Magic Missile ability would normally deal. A creature that fails its save catches on fire for 1 minute, suffering 1d6 fire damage per round (full-round action to douse flames). Flammable materials and objects in the area also catch fire for 1 minute and these fires may cause additional damage to creatures depending on where they are.

Fly
TRANSMUTATION
Level: 3rd
Cost: 3 Invest
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Target: You

While your SP are invested in this spell, you gain a Fly speed equal to your land speed with Clumsy maneuverability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#movingInThreeDimensions).

Glibness
ENCHANTMENT
Level: 3rd
Cost: 3 Burn
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 minute/level

You gain a +15 bonus to bluff, diplomacy, and gather information checks and bypass any magic spell or effect that would prevent you from lying or detect your lies, such as Discern Lies or Zone of Truth.

Greater Mage's Sword
EVOCATION
Level: 3rd
Cost: 3 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Target: Melee Weapon Touched

As you cast the spell choose either [Cold], [Electricity], or [Fire]. This spell gains the descriptor of the chosen type. While your SP are invested in this spell the touched weapon gains an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to the bonus to attack rolls your Magic Missile ability gets (the weapon is treated as a magic weapon if it receives an enhancement bonus of at least +1) and also deals damage of the chosen energy type of the same number of damage dice.

You may use exchange up to +5 of the enhancement bonus gained through this spell for an equivalent value in magic weapon properties (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm) of your choosing.

If you are wielding this weapon your base attack bonus increases to equal that of a Rogue of your level.

Unlike your normal Magic Missile ability, a creature that attacks multiple creatures in a round deals the full number of damage dice with each attack.


4th Level

Beshadowing Blast
EVOCATION [Shadow]
Level: 4th
Cost: 4 Open
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures; see text
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fort negates

Make one or more ranged touch attacks as if you were using your Magic Missile ability, except that half the damage is shadow damage. Any creature dealt damage by one of these attacks must succeed at a Fortitude save or be Blinded for 1 round.

Bestow Curse
NECROMANCY (Curse)
Level: 4th
Cost: 4 Burn

All else as normal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bestowCurse.htm).

Bewitching Blast
ENCHANTMENT [Mind-Affecting]
Level: 4th
Cost: 4 Open
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures; see text
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates

Make one or more ranged touch attacks as if you were using your Magic Missile ability, except that all of the damage is converted to untyped nonlethal damage. Any creature dealt damage by one of these attacks must succeed at a Will save or be Confused for 1 round.

Charm
ENCHANTMENT [Mind-Affecting]
Level: 4th
Cost: 4 Burn
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/two levels)
Target: 1 Creature
Duration: 1 hour/five levels
Saving Throw: Will negates

This spell improves the attitude of the affected creature toward you and your allies by up to two stages (see Influencing NPC Attitudes, Diplomacy skill). After the spell is ended the affected creature's attitude returns to normal and then worsens toward you and your allies by the same number of stages it had been improved by.

Charm cannot be used on a Hostile creature and cannot improve a creature's attitude beyond Helpful. This spell does not allow you to give the affected creature orders in any way. Any actions taken by you or your allies that would be perceived as Hostile (as NPC Attitude) automatically end the spell.

Deeper Darkness
EVOCATION [Shadow]
Level: 4th
Cost: 4 Burn
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Effect: Burst, 60ft radius
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level

This spell operates exactly like Darkness, except that it blinds even creatures with darkvision.

Dimension Door
CONJURATION (Calling)
Level: 4th
Cost: 4; see text
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 Move Action or 1 Standard Action or 1 Full-Round Action; See text
Range: Short (25ft + 5ft/two levels) or Medium (100ft + 10ft/level) or Long (400ft + 40ft/level); see text
Effect: Teleportation

Dimension Door teleports you, your possessions, and any creatures you touch (along with their possessions) to a location anywhere as far as Long Range (400ft + 40ft/level). The cost and casting time of this spell depends on the distance you choose to teleport.

If you choose to teleport to a distance within Short Range (25ft + 5ft/two levels), then the cost is 4 Open and the casting time is 1 Move Action.

If you choose to teleport to a distance within Medium Range (100ft + 10ft/level), then the cost is 4 Invest and the casting time is 1 Standard Action. The SP invested in this spell remain that way for 1 hour after you cast this spell.

If you choose to teleport to a distance within Long Range (400ft + 40ft/level), then the cost is 4 Burn and the casting time is 1 Full-Round Action).

If you or a creature brought along would teleport into a space occupied by a creature or object, then the teleporting creature is shunted to the nearest open space within 100ft and dealt 1d6 damage per 10ft moved this way. If there is no open space within 100ft, then this spell fails for that creature.

Eldritch Shield
EVOCATION
Level: 4th
Cost: 4 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Effect: Coruscating energy field

As you cast the spell choose either [Cold], [Electricity], or [Fire]. This spell gains the descriptor of the chosen energy type. While your SP are invested in this spell you are surrounded by a coruscating energy field of the chosen type that deals damage of that energy type equal to the number of damage dice your Magic Missile ability would normally deal to any creature that grapples you or successfully hits you with a melee attack.

Furthermore, you gain a bonus to saves against spells and effects with the same descriptor of this spell or that deal the same type of damage as this spell equal to the bonus to attacks your Magic Missile ability gets. If you succeed on a saving throw for a partial effect or half damage from such a spell or effect, then you suffer no ill effects or no damage.

Raise Skeleton
NECROMANCY [Death]
Level: 4th
Cost: 4 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Full-Round Action
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/two levels)
Target: 1 Corpse

The target corpse is destroyed when you cast this spell and a Skeleton (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/skeleton.htm) of the appropriate creature is created. While your SP are invested in this spell, you command the Skeleton as long as its HD does not exceed your caster level. When this spell ends, if you were commanding the Skeleton, then the Skeleton collapses into a harmless pile of bones (and cannot be raised again), but if you were not commanding it, then the Skeleton is unharmed and is free to continue to enjoy its unlife.


5th Level

Black Tentacles
CONJURATION (Summoning) [Shadow]
Level: 5th
Cost: 5 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Full-Round Action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Effect: Burst, 15ft radius
Duration: Concentration up to 1 round per level
Saving Throw: None

Into the spell's area you conjure a writhing mass of ebony tendrils amidst a heavy black smoke. Each round a creature remains in the area it suffers 2d6 shadow damage and must resist a grapple check made by the tentacles (you roll) as if with base attack equal to your caster level, a Strength modifier equal to your Charisma modifier, and Large size.

Each tentacle has an AC equal to 10 + 1/2 your caster level + your Intelligence modifier, uses your saving throws, and has hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier (min 1) times your level. If a tentacle is destroyed (reduced to 0 hit points) any creature grappled by it is freed, at least momentarily, but a new tentacle appears to replace the destroyed one immediately. It is impossible to determine the exact number of tentacles generated at any given time by the Black Tentacles spell.

The Black Tentacles will always attempt to pin any grappled creatures in the area at their earliest chance and, once pinned, a creature suffers 3d6 + 1½ the tentacles' effective Str modifier bludgeoning damage each round they fail to escape (in addition to the shadow damage they automatically take each round).

The Black Tentacles have a reach of 15ft which allows them to attempt to grapple creatures outside of the spell's area and drag them into the shadowy cloud of smoke.

Revenance
NECROMANCY [Life, Death]
Level: 5th
Cost: 5 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Target: Touched Corpse
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)

As you cast the spell you know whether or not the corpse's soul is willing to return to the body with the knowledge that the effect will not last. If you cast this spell on a corpse with a willing soul, then no saving throw is necessary, but if the soul is unwilling, then that soul is entitled to a Will save to negate the effect.

When the spell is complete, the targeted corpse returns to life fully restored and well-rested, although it has a lost a level. If the creature has only 1 HD, then rather than losing a level that creature suffers a -2 penalty to all ability scores which lasts until the creature gains enough XP to gain a level at which the point its XP are set to the value it needs for its current level and the penalty is removed. While your SP are invested in this spell the creature remains alive, well, and free to act as it chooses.

This spell gives you absolutely no special control or influence over the creature. The creature has the same starting attitude toward you and your allies as it would have had in life if its soul was willing, otherwise it is Hostile toward you and Indifferent toward your allies. You can't use this spell on a corpse that has been Dead for longer than 1 hour.


6th Level

Create Undead
NECROMANCY (Compulsion) [Death]
Level: 6th
Cost: 6 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: 1 Corpse
Duration: Instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)

As you cast this spell you know whether or not the corpse's soul is willing to return to the body with the knowledge that it will become Undead. If you cast this spell on a corpse with a willing soul, then no saving throw is necessary, but if the soul is unwilling, then this spell gains the [Evil] descriptor and that soul is entitled to a Will save to negate the effect.

When the spell is complete, the targeted corpse raises to unlife with all of the statistics, attacks, special abilities and qualities it had in life except that it loses its Constitution score and gains the Undead type. If the creature had less than 3 Intelligence in life, then it also loses its Intelligence score becoming Mindless.

You automatically control any Mindless Undead created in this way as long as their HD doesn't exceed your caster level until your next Extended Rest (8 hours of sleep for most creatures). You have no control over Intelligent Undead created in this way, though such creatures have a starting attitude of Friendly toward you and any of your allies (even if the soul was unwilling).

Cure Serious Wounds
NECROMANCY (Healing)
Level: 6th
Cost: 6 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/two levels)
Target: 1 Creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)

The targeted creature is cured of 11d10 + 10 + your caster level hit points, of 2d8 points of ability damage, and 2 negative levels. You may burn additional SP to cure 3d10 additional hit points, 1d8 additional ability damage, and 1 additional negative level per SP burned. You may not burn more SP in this way than the highest level spell you are able to cast.

This spell cures all creatures whether they are living, undead, or constructed. This spell can't be used on a creature with 0 or fewer hit points.

Enervating Shadow
EVOCATION/NECROMANCY [Shadow] [Death]
Level: 6th
Cost: 6 Burn
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Effect: Burst, 60ft radius
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Fort partial; see text

This spell works exactly like Deeper Darkness, except that each creature that ends its turn within the area of effect must succeed on a Fortitude save to avoid gaining a negative level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels) . Undead creatures are instead cured of 5 hit point damage.

Greater Dispel Magic
TRANSMUTATION
Level: 6th
Cost: 6 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Target: 1 Ongoing Spell or 1 Magic Item
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None; see text

This spell operates exactly as Dispel Magic, except that it allows no saving throws.

Repelling Blast
EVOCATION
Level: 6th
Cost: 6 Open
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex partial; see text

Make one or more ranged touch attacks as if you were using your Magic Missile ability. Each creature dealt damage by this ability is hurled 1d6x10 feet directly away from you and knocked prone by the energy of the attack. For every 10ft traveled in this way, the creature is dealt 1d6 bludgeoning damage. If the creature strikes a solid object or another creature along the way both are dealt bludgeoning damage for every 10ft traveled thus far and the other creature is knocked prone. If this damage is enough to destroy the object, the creature continues its movement.

A successful Reflex save prevents the creature from being hurled away from you and knocked prone (other creatures struck may prevent themselves being knocked prone with a successful Reflex save as well), but does not reduce the damage dealt.


7th Level

Eldritch Fusillade
EVOCATION
Level: 7th
Cost: 7 Open
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Full-Round Action
Range: Long (400ft + 40ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures; see text
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None

As you cast the spell choose either [Cold], [Electricity], or [Fire]. This spell gains the descriptor of the chosen energy type. Make a single ranged touch attack as if you were using your Magic Missile ability against one creature. If the attack hits, then you may make another attack with Magic Missile at a -2 penalty, either at the same target or a different one. If that attack hits, then you may make another at a -4 penalty. You may continue making Magic Missile attacks at a cumulative -2 penalty until you miss a target. Unlike when splitting targets with your normal Magic Missile ability, each Magic Missile attack made with this spell deals full damage.

Resurrection
NECROMANCY [Life, Death]
Level: 7th
Cost: 7 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: Touched Corpse
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)

As you cast the spell you know whether or not the corpse's soul is willing to return to life with the knowledge that it may be disfigured (see below). If you cast this spell on a corpse with a willing soul, then no saving throw is necessary, but if the soul is unwilling, then that soul is entitled to a Will save to negate the effect.

This spell restores life to the targeted corpse, restored and well-rested, but depending on how long the corpse had lain Dead, the resulting creature may suffer a number of detrimental effects as follows:


• If you use the spell within 1 day of the corpse's death, then it suffers no ill effects.


• After one day the resulting creature loses 1 level. If the creature has only 1 HD, then rather than losing a level that creature suffers a -2 penalty to all ability scores which lasts until the creature gains enough XP to gain a level at which the point its XP are set to the value it needs for its current level and the penalty is removed.


• After one week the resulting creature's Dexterity and Charisma scores are permanently reduced by 2.


• After one month the resulting creature's Strength and Constitution scores are permanently reduced by 2 and its Dexterity and Charisma scores are permanently reduced by 4.

You can't use this spell on a corpse that's been Dead longer than one month.

This spell gives you absolutely no special control or influence over the creature. The creature has the same starting attitude toward you and your allies as it would have had in life if it soul was willing, otherwise it is Hostile toward you and Indifferent toward your allies.


8th Level

Raise Skeleton Army
NECROMANCY [Death]
Level: 8th
Cost: 8 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Full-Round Action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Target: Up to 1 Corpse/level

This spell operates exactly like Raise Skeleton, except that you may target multiple corpses from farther away. You can control any number of Skeletons created in this way, but none whose HD exceed your caster level.

Swarm Form
TRANSMUTATION
Level: 8th
Cost: 8 Invest
Components: S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Target: You

Upon completing the spell you and all of your possessions collapse into a myriad Diminutive vermin, gaining all Swarm traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/swarm.htm#), and occupying any 8 contiguous 5ft squares. While your SP are invested in this spell you cannot use your possessions (though they are unharmed and merged with your new form), you may shape your occupied space once per round as a move action or as part of a move action, your Strength score drops to 1, your Dexterity score increases by +6, you gain a +4 size bonus to AC, you gain a fly speed of 60ft with perfect maneuverability, you may move through openings that a Diminutive creature could move through, and at the end of each of your turns you deal 1d6 damage to each creature whose space you occupy for each of your 5ft squares that occupies that creature's space. This damage bypasses all DR and Regeneration of a value less than or equal to your caster level. Creatures damaged in this way must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Cha modifier) to avoid becoming Nauseated for 1 round.


9th Level

Cure Critical Wounds
NECROMANCY (Healing)
Level: 9th
Cost: 9 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/two levels)
Target: 1 Creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)

The targeted creature is cured of up to 17d10 + 10 + your caster level hit points, 4d10 ability damage, 4 negative levels, and all status conditions (except Dead). You may burn additional SP to cure up to 17d10 additional hit points, 4d10 additional ability damage, and 4 additional negative level per SP burned. You may not burn more SP in this way than the highest level spell you are able to cast.

This spell cures all creatures whether they are living, undead, or constructed. This spell can be used on a creature regardless of how many hit points they have (so long as that creature isn't Dead).

True Resurrection
NECROMANCY [Life, Death]
Level: 9th
Cost: 9 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 Minutes
Range: Unlimited
Effect: Creature Returned to Life
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)

This spell works exactly like Resurrection except that it doesn't need a corpse to return the Dead creature to life, it can be used to restore a creature to life no matter how long it has lain dead, and the resulting creature suffers no detrimental effects whatsoever.

To return the Dead creature to life you must either have the corpse or identify the deceased in some fashion (reciting the deceased’s time and place of birth or death is the most common method). If you do not have the corpse, then the creature is returned to life at the site of its death. This may not be a desirable outcome for certain situations.

True Resurrection can be used to return an Elemental or Outsider to life, but it can't be used to repair a Construct or return an Undead creature to unlife.


10th Level

Cosmic Awareness
DIVINATION
Level: 10th
Cost: 10 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Personal
Effect: Burst, 1 mile/level radius

While your SP are invested in this spell, you are made aware of all creatures Hostile to you in the spell's area (the number and location) as well as any hostile actions being taken against you and/or your allies by creatures in the spell's area 1 round ahead of time.

While your SP are invested in this spell, you are never surprised, you cannot be flat-footed, and you gain a +5 insight bonus to AC, Initiative checks, and Reflex saves. If you are able to give an ally proper warning in the 1 round before a hostile action against that ally takes effect, then that ally is not caught flat-footed or surprised by that action and gains a +5 insight bonus to AC, Initiative checks, and Reflex saves made during the next round.

Create Undead Army
NECROMANCY (Compulsion) [Death]
Level: 10th
Cost: 10 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/two levels)
Target: Up to 1 Corpse/level
Duration: Instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw: Will negates

This spell operates exactly like Create Undead, except that you may target multiple corpses from farther away. You can control any number of Mindless Undead created in this way, but none whose HD exceed your caster level (this effect still ends when you next take an Extended Rest).



The class is "done," but the spells are not even close. The first thing for me to finish is to convert all of the Warlock invocations that exist into spells of this type. Once I've done that I'll move on to converting Cleric/Druid/Wizard spells.

EDIT: Class and some spells are up. The existing spells have been formatted correctly, and many of them have been tweaked or rewritten. A couple new ones have been added.

Thanks for reading!

Ziegander
2012-01-05, 09:29 PM
Reserved Post #2.

Ha! 50000 characters worth of spells down. 50000+ characters worth of spells to go!

Spell Name
SPELL SCHOOL
Level:
Cost:
Components:
Casting Time:
Range:
Target or Effect:

Detect Magic
DIVINATION
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Effect: Burst, 60ft

While your SP are invested in this spell, you know the presence of each magical aura within the spell's area. A magical aura includes all ongoing spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities; constructs, dragons, magical beasts, and spellcasters; and magic items and artifacts. You are able to discern the differences in auras between spells, creatures, and items, but you do not learn the direction to or location of auras detected in this way.

Find Nemesis
DIVINATION
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Effect: Burst, 60ft

While your SP are invested in this spell, you know the presence of and direction to either a specifically identified creature, or to each creature of the Type of your choice within the spell's area. This spell doesn't help you locate a creature that is outside of its area.

Grease
CONJURATION (Creation)
Level: 2nd
Cost: 2 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Full-Round Action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Effect: Burst, 10ft radius
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Reflex partial; see text

This spell splatters the effected area in slippery grease. Creatures in the area that fail their Reflex saves drop all carried items and fall prone.

Furthermore, as long as you concentrate to maintain the spell, creatures in the area must succeed on a DC 10 Balance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/balance.htm) check to move more than 1/2 their speed.

Once the spell ends, the grease created by the spell evaporates away within 1 round (no Balance checks are necessary while the grease is evaporating).

True Strike
DIVINATION
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Swift Action
Range: Personal or Close (25ft + 5ft/two levels)
Target: You or 1 Creature
Duration: 1 round
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)

This spell grants the target a +5 insight bonus, +1 per two levels (Max +15), to the next attack roll that creature makes within 1 round. Furthermore, the target ignores even total concealment when making an attack with this bonus. This spell is discharged after the target makes its next attack roll.

Crushing Despair
ENCHANTMENT (Morale)
Level: 3rd
Cost: 3 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100ft + 10ft/level)
Target: Up to 1 Creature/level
Duration: Concentration, up to one round/level
Saving Throw: None

The targets of this spell suffer a -2 morale penalty to attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, and saving throws as long as you concentrate to maintain the spell. This effect ends for any creature successfully hits you with an attack. A creature for whom this effect ends is immune to this effect for 24 hours.

Good Hope
ENCHANTMENT (Morale)
Level: 3rd
Cost: 3 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Effect: Burst, 60ft radius

While your SP are invested in this spell, you and allies within the Burst area gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, and saving throws.

Eldest
2012-01-05, 11:16 PM
This isn't super helpful, but you might want to reserve another post or two, just in case. Now, to read through the class and make helpful remarks.
(If you want to reserve another post, I'll delete this one)
E: Helpful comment: this guy seems to take all the different arcane caster's spots. Really.

Aura of Competence
ENCHANTMENT (Morale)
Level: 1st
Cost: 1 Invest
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Personal
Effect: Burst, 30ft

While your SP are invested in this spell you project an aura out to 30ft that grants any creatures in the area Friendly to you a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, and saving throws.
Now a level one bard's shtick is gone.
You have as many magic missiles as you want, so warlock's gone.
You can keep casting all day, sorcerer's gone. Same for warlock again.
And those are the arcanes that I know. So you might want to tone down this guy, and (if you want to) make a similar class for each other area.

Curious
2012-01-05, 11:24 PM
Very interested. Subscribed.

Ziegander
2012-01-05, 11:36 PM
This isn't super helpful, but you might want to reserve another post or two, just in case. Now, to read through the class and make helpful remarks.
(If you want to reserve another post, I'll delete this one)

Eh, I'm okay with just the posts reserved that I have so far. If I need more room for spells, then I'll just deal with it as I get there.


E: Helpful comment: this guy seems to take all the different arcane caster's spots. Really.

Now a level one bard's shtick is gone.
You have as many magic missiles as you want, so warlock's gone.
You can keep casting all day, sorcerer's gone. Same for warlock again.
And those are the arcanes that I know. So you might want to tone down this guy, and (if you want to) make a similar class for each other area.

Well, that is exactly the point though. Ideally, this class would be presented as one of three to four core classes (Warrior, Expert, Mage, and maybe a "Proteus" Hybrid class) and the ONLY spell casting class. My aim here is to create one class that can be a Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Druid, etc, etc, and do it while reining in the power level down closer to Tier 3 or low Tier 2.

Howler Dagger
2012-01-05, 11:53 PM
I would change Power Word: Rest to 3/Hp per CL, because it is easy to boost CL so not having a save would be common.

bobthe6th
2012-01-06, 12:39 AM
Sugestion. Might make them more like powers. Let each spell grow as you invest more power.

Also, I think burn is a bad mechanic. You could just give big powers a recharge time based on amont of sp invested. Like recharge = ((SP invested * SP invested)-casting mod) rounds.

Also, with at will canatrip casting, you have infinet healing. The 0 level cure spell.

RedWarlock
2012-01-06, 02:17 AM
I like the concept. Your formatting seems to be busted, though, all the size tags are broken in your spell lists.

And FYI, the burn mechanic is just standard point-spending ala psionics. Good use of the term, but it seems to be throwing some people off. To the poster above me, though, no, major disagreement there, your idea is WAY more complicated.

Aldgar
2012-01-06, 03:22 AM
I like the spellpoint system of "Open", "Invest" and "Burn".

I may not agree with the exact specifics of the class abilities, but I like the concept of a single magic-using class; it reminds me of the Mage in Incursion (http://www.incursion-roguelike.net/)(and its various "specialist" options, with different specializations leading to different spells known, different spell costs and different playing styles).

Eldest
2012-01-06, 08:20 AM
Ok, then that makes sense. You might want to provide one or two more classes or class variants, if you want to replace a lot of classes with this, or you will run into the fighter problem a bit and try to make one class stretch arcross a lot of nitches.

Yitzi
2012-01-06, 10:43 AM
I like the spellpoint system of "Open", "Invest" and "Burn".

Same here. I'll probably want to use it for arcane casters in the remix I have planned.

Ziegander
2012-01-06, 11:35 AM
I would change Power Word: Rest to 3/Hp per CL, because it is easy to boost CL so not having a save would be common.

At 3hp/CL it would be next to pointless to ever cast. If anything I'm considering raising the hp bar per CL, because as is I can't see anyone waiting to cast it at 1st level. If the creature's at 5hp, then just attack it.


Sugestion. Might make them more like powers. Let each spell grow as you invest more power.

Probably not going to do this. I have a hard time managing a mechanic like that without invalidating spell levels, and it would really not jive with a lot of the existing spells.


Also, I think burn is a bad mechanic. You could just give big powers a recharge time based on amont of sp invested. Like recharge = ((SP invested * SP invested)-casting mod) rounds.

As RedWarlock said, this is really, really complicated. Burn is simple and illustrates the Wizard employing such powerful magics that he can only use so many per day.


Also, with at will canatrip casting, you have infinet healing. The 0 level cure spell.

I have a fix for that. I'll amend my post.


I like the concept. Your formatting seems to be busted, though, all the size tags are broken in your spell lists.

Yeah, I never got around to fixing the tags last night. I'll get to it momentarily.


Ok, then that makes sense. You might want to provide one or two more classes or class variants, if you want to replace a lot of classes with this, or you will run into the fighter problem a bit and try to make one class stretch arcross a lot of nitches.

Definitely. I have a "Radiant Servant" variant in mind as well as a "Shadowcaster." The idea is that I can switch Magic Missile and Arcane Resistance out for other equivalent mechanics and then keep the rest of the system intact.

gkathellar
2012-01-06, 12:07 PM
Oh, anoth—wait, this isn't a fighter fix!


a mashup of incarnum, invocations, and psionics.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

*breath*

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


Spells have a SP cost, and, depending on the spell, that amount of SP must either be Open, Invested, or Burnt.

Oooh. Getting rid of the "spells-per-day" thing without giving wizards all-day access to their most powerful spells. Making Persistent Spell simultaneously ubiquitous and dramatically limited? I approve.

I imagine metamagic in general is going to work by increasing SP costs? Well, I'm sure you'll get to that briefly.


All spells you cast have a saving throw DC of 10 + 1/2 your level + your Charisma modifier. In order to cast a spell you must have an Intelligence score equal to, at least, 10 + spell level. You cannot cast spells with an alignment descriptor that isn't shared by your alignment. You may gain bonus Spell Points per day based on a high Wisdom modifier (+1 SP per point of Wisdom modifier, max +1 SP per spell level).

MAD is all good so far.


At 4th level and every two levels thereafter you may choose to lose a spell known in order to learn a new spell up to one level lower than the highest spell level you are able to cast.

Depending on how spell points work out, this could actually be a choice. Interesting.


[b]Magic Missile (Sp)

I think if you end up doing ACFs, this is really the only feature you need to change. And you should — the flavor of a magic missile doesn't feel quite right for every spellcaster, but it could be switched out easily enough on a case-by-case basis for flavorful powers.


[B][SIZE="5"]Spells

Beguiling influence has always struck me as iffy. Maybe lower the bonus, make it scale?

Bolster should probably allow you to refresh it by letting it go inactive for eight hours, since otherwise you can't do so without using up all the temp HP. (But I really like this spell — very elegant design.)

For CLW, maybe reduce the action cost? I dunno, healing 1d10+1 is actually halfway solid for a standard action on at level 1.

Dark Speech: Pain is pretty strong. A largely save-or-lose effect with a bit of damage on top? This is probably the gold standard for level one spells. Also, which kind of damage exactly is inflicted?

Devil's Sight can probably have its range increased. It's almost completely useless at the level it comes in otherwise.

Mage Armor has been toned both up and down, I see. Hm.

I really, really like Mage's Sword. Combined with some other spells, it's a fantastic way to potentially make the Wizard into a spellsword, and I'm hoping to see more spells of this type.

Power Word: Sleep should clarify whether it refers to current hit points or maximum hit points.

Shield of Faith needs some cleanup, because the language as is applies the protection against everything — not just the chosen alignment. Also, should this really be a Burn spell, and not an Invest spell (maybe with a slightly higher SP cost)?

Scorching Ray seems a little weak.

Bestow Curse is a supremely excellent debuff. Maybe push it up a level?

Greater Mage's Sword is exactly what I was talking about earlier, though the language regarding BAB could use cleanup.

While at first I was a little reluctant about your moving Charm up to level 4, I think it ultimately makes sense.

Eldritch shield is more spellsword stuff, good.

Black Tentacles looks like solid battlefield control for its level, especially since it's concentration-based.

Swarm Form is a solid example of what it feels like higher-level Invest spells should look like: powerful, but also highly taxing on your overall casting power. You can get quite a few varied, powerful spells by high levels —*but you can't use them all at once, especially if you want to shore up your own vulnerabilities.

No doubt 10th-level Burn spells will be extraordinary in power, and they'll deserve to be.

It looks like you're mostly aiming to get buffs, evocations and battlefield control in right now —*with a touch of enchantment and spellsword stuff. I can get behind that as an agenda for the immediate future, but I really look forward to seeing how you do illusion and transmutation spells — they're by far my favorite schools, and I'd love to see how they function in this system.

EDIT: I'm aware this is already a massive undertaking (thank you thank you thank you), but in the far, far future I'd love to see magic item and crafting rules based on this system.

Ziegander
2012-01-06, 01:06 PM
Oh, anoth—wait, this isn't a fighter fix!



EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

*breath*

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

:smallbiggrin:


I imagine metamagic in general is going to work by increasing SP costs? Well, I'm sure you'll get to that briefly.

That's how I imagine it will work as well. But first things first.


MAD is all good so far.

Depending on what sort of caster you want to be you don't actually need all of the scores. Since you aren't burning SP with all of your spells, you don't expressly need a huge amount of SP, but a few extra from a high Wisdom score are always nice and welcome.


I think if you end up doing ACFs, this is really the only feature you need to change. And you should — the flavor of a magic missile doesn't feel quite right for every spellcaster, but it could be switched out easily enough on a case-by-case basis for flavorful powers.

For example, the Radiant Servant gets a radiant damage "magic missile" that can crit against Undead on an 18-20. But it also replaces Arcane Resistance with bonuses against Undead.


Beguiling influence has always struck me as iffy. Maybe lower the bonus, make it scale?

I changed it to +4, +1/two levels (max +10). Seem better? I'm not sure, maybe that's too good for a 1st level spell.


Bolster should probably allow you to refresh it by letting it go inactive for eight hours, since otherwise you can't do so without using up all the temp HP. (But I really like this spell — very elegant design.)

Great point. I think I fixed it. It's a subtle change. But yeah, I knew I wanted an hp buff spell for this system, but it took me a while to figure out how to do it right.


For CLW, maybe reduce the action cost? I dunno, healing 1d10+1 is actually halfway solid for a standard action on at level 1.

I have a new plan for Cure spells now. 1d6/level + Cha mod. Light maxes out at 5d6, Moderate at 10d6, Serious at 15d6, and Critical at 20d6. Now it should keep up with damage being dealt throughout the levels. Because of that I'll move the spell levels around (Light 1st, Moderate 3rd, Serious 6th, Critical 8th).


Dark Speech: Pain is pretty strong. A largely save-or-lose effect with a bit of damage on top? This is probably the gold standard for level one spells. Also, which kind of damage exactly is inflicted?

Yeah, Dark Speech: Pain is probably too strong... I think I have an idea to help balance it (it dealt damage of all three types by the way).


Devil's Sight can probably have its range increased. It's almost completely useless at the level it comes in otherwise.

Well, I wouldn't have called it completely useless at all, but I upped it to 120 and 60 respectively, so it's always going to be objectively superior to racial darkvision.


I really, really like Mage's Sword. Combined with some other spells, it's a fantastic way to potentially make the Wizard into a spellsword, and I'm hoping to see more spells of this type.

One of my design goals for this class is to make the bladesinger/spellsword/duskblade playable out of the box without the need of any special hybrid classes or prestige classes. With proper spell selection I want a Wizard character to be able to hit the front lines at least almost as well as a Fighter.


Power Word: Sleep should clarify whether it refers to current hit points or maximum hit points.

Good point.


Shield of Faith needs some cleanup, because the language as is applies the protection against everything — not just the chosen alignment. Also, should this really be a Burn spell, and not an Invest spell (maybe with a slightly higher SP cost)?

Where does it need clarification? And it is a Burn spell, but I could see raising it to 2nd level, it's nice. Basically, I took Protection from Evil and allowed it to apply to creature Types as well as alignments. Magic Circle will get that change too.


Scorching Ray seems a little weak.

I was worried about that too, but then, even if they fail a single save they potentially take 10d6 extra fire damage from it. Given it's at-will nature and possibility for stacking I ultimately decided that it was probably good.


Bestow Curse is a supremely excellent debuff. Maybe push it up a level?

I probably will. I do plan on raising the level of a lot of spells to fill in the new 10 levels of spells (and to help stretch power over a more appropriate level range).


Greater Mage's Sword is exactly what I was talking about earlier, though the language regarding BAB could use cleanup.

I know. That was kind of a last minute addition that I wouldn't mind straight up omitting. Any suggestions?


While at first I was a little reluctant about your moving Charm up to level 4, I think it ultimately makes sense.

Well, it's a watered down Charm Monster, which was already at 4th level, so I think it works.

Eldritch shield is more spellsword stuff, good.

Black Tentacles looks like solid battlefield control for its level, especially since it's concentration-based.


No doubt 10th-level Burn spells will be extraordinary in power, and they'll deserve to be.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how far I go once I get to that point. I'm thinking something like Energy Drain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/energyDrain.htm) is about where I want a 10th level Burn spell to look like, but it's hard to say until I get closer to working on that stuff.


It looks like you're mostly aiming to get buffs, evocations and battlefield control in right now —*with a touch of enchantment and spellsword stuff.

The immediate future will be dedicated to porting over the rest of the Warlock's invocations as this type of spell. After I've worked on that I'll be working on filling the spell list for more esoteric stuff.


[...]I really look forward to seeing how you do illusion and transmutation spells — they're by far my favorite schools, and I'd love to see how they function in this system.

Some Illusions may get a little tricky (stuff like Minor/Major Image), but I expect it shouldn't be too difficult to get them to work in this system. Transmutation is the bread and butter of this system, since many of them were born for the Invest cost.


EDIT: I'm aware this is already a massive undertaking (thank you thank you thank you), but in the far, far future I'd love to see magic item and crafting rules based on this system.

Certainly, certainly. I've spent YEARS trying to come up with a Wizard and casting system that I liked, and I feel like I've finally got it. So, I'm going to be attempting to work out all the wrinkles that I can.

killem2
2012-01-06, 01:10 PM
I really like this, and I'll be checking it out more.

And to your question as to why, I'm betting it is nothing more than, gygax didn't think of it. the mana/sp thing i mean. so it never became the standard.

gkathellar
2012-01-06, 01:38 PM
I changed it to +4, +1/two levels (max +10). Seem better? I'm not sure, maybe that's too good for a 1st level spell.

My only real concern is that at the level it comes in, it strictly outclasses spending the skill points without really costing you much in the process. You're gonna be Charisma-heavy, too, so it's not as if you're making up for anything. For a traditional Warlock, if you grabbed it at 1st level that was your power, and you weren't doing anything else. A 1st-level Wizard, by contrast, can keep it on all the time in social situations and turn if off outside of them. And he's got three other spells on top of that, so he's not losing everything.


Where does it need clarification? And it is a Burn spell, but I could see raising it to 2nd level, it's nice. Basically, I took Protection from Evil and allowed it to apply to creature Types as well as alignments. Magic Circle will get that change too.

It's a really tight little RAW thing. It says, "you gain these bonuses. These bonuses apply to X alignment/creature type," where it should probably say, "you gain these bonuses against X alignment/creature type."

I was suggesting making it invest instead of burn, but it's not exactly crucial.


I know. That was kind of a last minute addition that I wouldn't mind straight up omitting. Any suggestions?

Steering away from the Poor/Average/Good language, which would make it easier:

"For purposes of using a weapon imbued with Greater Mage's Sword, you recalculate your Base Attack Bonus from classes that gain increases to Base Attack at the same rate as a wizard or rogue. For levels in classes that progress at the same rate as a wizard, recalculate your Base Attack Bonus as though it were equal to a rogue's. For levels in classes that progress at the progress at the same rate as a rogue, recalculate your Base Attack Bonus as though it were equal to a fighter's."

Still clunky. Eh.


Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how far I go once I get to that point. I'm thinking something like Energy Drain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/energyDrain.htm) is about where I want a 10th level Burn spell to look like, but it's hard to say until I get closer to working on that stuff.

Time Stop seems like a model to me — you get to tear apart the laws of the universe for a few brief moments, but it costs you.

I also like the idea of Genesis, Wish or similar reality-altering effects as Invest spells. Sure, you can create a demiplane, but only if you want to give up a fourth or fifth of your arcane power to sustain its existence.


Certainly, certainly. I've spent YEARS trying to come up with a Wizard and casting system that I liked, and I feel like I've finally got it. So, I'm going to be attempting to work out all the wrinkles that I can.

Well, I'm glad you're happy with your work here (as happiness will keep you working muahahaha). This is the first rework of the spell system I've seen that looks like it'll do exactly what it needs to: simultaneously contain spellcasters and still provide them the potential to do awesome, cosmic things on occasion.

Ziegander
2012-01-06, 02:03 PM
My only real concern is that at the level it comes in, it strictly outclasses spending the skill points without really costing you much in the process. You're gonna be Charisma-heavy, too, so it's not as if you're making up for anything. For a traditional Warlock, if you grabbed it at 1st level that was your power, and you weren't doing anything else. A 1st-level Wizard, by contrast, can keep it on all the time in social situations and turn if off outside of them. And he's got three other spells on top of that, so he's not losing everything.

You make very good points, so I think what I'll do is scrap Beguiling Influence and delay it's "appearance" until 3rd level when I can provide Glibness as a Burn cost for +15 to bluff/diplo/gather info. Sound good?


It's a really tight little RAW thing. It says, "you gain these bonuses. These bonuses apply to X alignment/creature type," where it should probably say, "you gain these bonuses against X alignment/creature type."

Yep, can do.


I was suggesting making it invest instead of burn, but it's not exactly crucial.

Ah, a 2nd level invest spell, then?


Still clunky. Eh.

Yeah, I'm probably going to just omit that base attack bonus line.


Time Stop seems like a model to me — you get to tear apart the laws of the universe for a few brief moments, but it costs you.

I also like the idea of Genesis, Wish or similar reality-altering effects as Invest spells. Sure, you can create a demiplane, but only if you want to give up a fourth or fifth of your arcane power to sustain its existence.

Hmm, since it is a "capstone," you're probably right. I probably should reward them with REAL COSMIC POWER, since, like you said, it costs them a large chunk of their casting ability.


Well, I'm glad you're happy with your work here (as happiness will keep you working muahahaha). This is the first rework of the spell system I've seen that looks like it'll do exactly what it needs to: simultaneously contain spellcasters and still provide them the potential to do awesome, cosmic things on occasion.

Along with this there will be revisions on Concentration (which I've already done a lot of work on, I just need to tweak it to match this system), Spell Resistance (which all creatures will have), Spell Schools (no Abjuration!), Subschools (Necromancy picks up Healing!), and Descriptors.

gkathellar
2012-01-06, 02:39 PM
You make very good points, so I think what I'll do is scrap Beguiling Influence and delay it's "appearance" until 3rd level when I can provide Glibness as a Burn cost for +15 to bluff/diplo/gather info. Sound good?

Ah, a 2nd level invest spell, then?

In either case, it sounds fine so long as you think it's okay for those effects to come in later. Which should be from a balance perspective.

EDIT: This just occurred to me.


Hmm, since it is a "capstone," you're probably right. I probably should reward them with REAL COSMIC POWER, since, like you said, it costs them a large chunk of their casting ability.

This could also provide a mechanical rationale the inactivity of high-level mages in various settings. Sure, Elminster is a 20th-level mage with 50 spells points and enough power to level a small country — but he's holding up two mythals and keeping a plane intact and maintaining a host of buffs, so in practice he has about 10 spell points and isn't going to be throwing around much in the way of world-shaking power unless he intends to let the whole world fall apart.

Ziegander
2012-01-06, 02:40 PM
What do you think of the Cosmic Awareness spell (10th level) I just wrote?

bindin garoth
2012-01-06, 04:25 PM
Great rework! For the BAB issue, how about this:
"Increase your BAB by 1 for the purposes of attacks made with this spell. This bonus increases by 1 per 5 caster levels you have. However, your BAB connot be increased past 20 by this spell."

Like it? :smallsmile:

Zale
2012-01-06, 04:29 PM
I like this.

I really do.

It's simple and interesting. Subscribing!

EdroGrimshell
2012-01-06, 06:13 PM
What about adding another mechanic specifically for things like illusions (though it'd also be applicable to other spells) that is essentially the recharge method mentioned earlier, something that weakens you now but not for the rest of the day?

Curious
2012-01-06, 06:27 PM
Oh, yes, if you are going to include spell resistance in your new system, you may wish to implement something similar to the revised system I have in my sig, which is meant for power points.

Ziegander
2012-01-06, 07:02 PM
What about adding another mechanic specifically for things like illusions (though it'd also be applicable to other spells) that is essentially the recharge method mentioned earlier, something that weakens you now but not for the rest of the day?

I don't know why I'd do that. That's basically what Invest is specifically for, and if the illusion effect is too powerful for Invest, then that's what Burn is for.

gkathellar
2012-01-06, 07:41 PM
More spells!

Dark Speech: Pain is improved. Still very good, but not excessively so.

Holy Word: Hope seems a little weak to burn a whole spell point on. I'd say it should be Invested until used (sort of like the way Bolster works), so that the spell point only gets burned if the spell actually turns out to be useful. That way, if it hasn't come up and the wizard needs another point, he can withdraw his protection without it becoming an issue.

Lucky Charm is very nice. I especially like the temptation it gives a higher-level wizard to burn up spell points casting it on himself multiple times: a move that could be either profitable or very wasteful.

Using a will save to adjudicate Dispel Magic is a bold move, and a good one for simplifying the spell (I notice you're edging out caster level in a bunch of places). I am worried that the wizard's Arcane Resistance will make him too resistant to dispels, though.

Glibness could probably afford a shorter duration. I'm not sure it needs it, though.

Raise Skeleton is your first summon! I have no real complaints. It might be a little excessive if a spellcaster of any level can raise any skeleton, though — even if they can't necessarily command it, some other kind of HD limit might be worthwhile. Maybe HD =< CL is required to command, HD =< CLx2 is required to raise in the first place?

Revenance is interesting. It's the kind of spell that could serve as a plot thread. Why did you decide to push back more permanent Raise Dead?

I ... kind of like how Create Undead is now the half-measure before getting actual resurrection. At the same time, I'm not certain it's the right route to take, and I'd love to see some more conventional minion-raising necromancy spells. I'm not necessarily against the idea that actually raising the dead back to full-on life should be a big deal.

If you're going to have Resurrection potentially impose those kind of penalties, than you need some form of Gentle Repose (perhaps as a cantrip with a long casting time, so it doesn't cost you a proper spell but is still significant in-game). Also, the starting language suggests Resurrection isn't permanent, but you don't go anywhere with that.

Raise Skeleton army is that minion-raising spell I was asking for. It'd be good to see some stuff between 4th and 8th levels, though.

True Resurrection is what it should be, and I do appreciate that only the extraordinarily powerful wizards can pull this kind of stunt. It does mention it can raise elementals and outsiders, but Resurrection doesn't say it can't do that.

Cosmic Awareness is indeed a 10th-level divination spell. Very good for both the on-the-go adventuring wizard and one who's in their downtime.

Create Undead Army is ... whoa. That's a city of the dead right there.

Ziegander
2012-01-07, 12:52 PM
Dark Speech: Pain is improved. Still very good, but not excessively so.

I may yet change it again. I'm of the mindset that certain status conditions just should not show up until the characters are of a certain level, and Nauseated is one that I think should be a higher level condition.


Holy Word: Hope seems a little weak to burn a whole spell point on. I'd say it should be Invested until used (sort of like the way Bolster works), so that the spell point only gets burned if the spell actually turns out to be useful. That way, if it hasn't come up and the wizard needs another point, he can withdraw his protection without it becoming an issue.

I want all of the "truespeech" spells to burn SP, so if this doesn't seem strong enough I guess I'll have to change it. I was worried it might be too weak myself.


Lucky Charm is very nice. I especially like the temptation it gives a higher-level wizard to burn up spell points casting it on himself multiple times: a move that could be either profitable or very wasteful.

Well, I changed it to a resistance bonus so it doesn't stack with itself or with cloaks of resistance, but even still, a character with Cha 28 could invest three baubles for a +9 resistance bonus to Fort, Ref, and Will respectively for the low cost of 6 SP. Seems like a good deal.


Using a will save to adjudicate Dispel Magic is a bold move, and a good one for simplifying the spell (I notice you're edging out caster level in a bunch of places). I am worried that the wizard's Arcane Resistance will make him too resistant to dispels, though.

Yeah, it speeds up gameplay and makes Dispel Magic easier to use. I shared your concern about Arcane Resistance, so I changed it from using the Wizard's Cha modifier to using its Int modifier.

EDIT: Also, do you think it would be too strong for Greater Dispel Magic (6th level spell, Burn) to work like Dispel Magic but with no saving throw allowed?


Glibness could probably afford a shorter duration. I'm not sure it needs it, though.

Reduced it to 1 minute/level.


Raise Skeleton is your first summon! I have no real complaints. It might be a little excessive if a spellcaster of any level can raise any skeleton, though — even if they can't necessarily command it, some other kind of HD limit might be worthwhile. Maybe HD =< CL is required to command, HD =< CLx2 is required to raise in the first place?

The way I see it, a 20HD Skeleton is still CR 8, and a Wizard has to be 8th level to even cast Raise Skeleton, so I don't see how the spell would ever present a problem.


Why did you decide to push back more permanent Raise Dead?

No particular reason, really. It's just always bugged me that bringing the dead back to life was so easy.


I ... kind of like how Create Undead is now the half-measure before getting actual resurrection. At the same time, I'm not certain it's the right route to take, and I'd love to see some more conventional minion-raising necromancy spells. I'm not necessarily against the idea that actually raising the dead back to full-on life should be a big deal.

I'm glad you saw what I did there. :smallamused:

Yeah, the Necromancer first learns how to animate very crude Undead from corpses, then he learns to invest magic power into a newly dead corpse to make it inhabitable by its soul again but only so long as he can power it with magic, then he learns to literally cause the dead to rise as "true" Undead, and then finally he discovers the power to bring the dead back to life (at 14th level) and later masters that power.

I will certainly add some other necromancy minion spells.


If you're going to have Resurrection potentially impose those kind of penalties, than you need some form of Gentle Repose (perhaps as a cantrip with a long casting time, so it doesn't cost you a proper spell but is still significant in-game).

Gentle Repose is a good idea. I wouldn't want it as a cantrip, but maybe just a ritual that anyone can do with the proper skill check and material components.

You may have noticed that none of these spells have material components. That's because I also plan to create rituals.


Also, the starting language suggests Resurrection isn't permanent, but you don't go anywhere with that.

You're talking crazy talk. I certainly didn't copypasta that paragraph straight from Revenance and then ninja fix it. Nothing to see here.


Raise Skeleton army is that minion-raising spell I was asking for. It'd be good to see some stuff between 4th and 8th levels, though.

Certainly. I'm just trying to paint in broad strokes right now, setting goal posts for power throughout the spell levels. I want to have a low-level minion spell maybe at 1st or 2nd level. Create Homunculus perhaps?


True Resurrection is what it should be, and I do appreciate that only the extraordinarily powerful wizards can pull this kind of stunt. It does mention it can raise elementals and outsiders, but Resurrection doesn't say it can't do that.

Well, as far as I knew, Elementals and Outsiders don't leave behind corpses, and given that they wouldn't be legal targets for Revenance or Resurrection be default.


Cosmic Awareness is indeed a 10th-level divination spell. Very good for both the on-the-go adventuring wizard and one who's in their downtime.

Create Undead Army is ... whoa. That's a city of the dead right there.

Do you think these two spells compare favorably to one another in terms of overall power and utility?

Ziegander
2012-01-08, 05:34 PM
Now that I've gotten this far, I'd like to take this opportunity to invite anyone to suggest new spells or help me out by brewing up their own spells for this system. I'd love it if anyone would like to submit spells of their own. I'll be adding new spells, especially starting tomorrow, and if anyone has any ideas for new directions or mechanics to work on for this system, please let's hear 'em!

Thanks again for reading!

EDIT: Several tweaks made to existing spells. I've been tinkering with how the Cure spells work. I think I've got a model now that I like, but if anyone has any suggestions for a better mechanic, then I'm all ears.

gkathellar
2012-01-09, 05:53 PM
Revised CLW looks pretty good. The augmentation mechanic means you don't have to switch it out for the better version if you don't want to, but you still profit for doing so.

Leaps and Bounds looks good. I'd say the crucial difference between it the Beguiling Influence is that it boosts an area the Wizard is initially poor in, and will help the wizard but won't supersede the advantages of actually taking those skills.

Summon Monster looks pretty balanced. It also looks potentially hilarious — "crap, a math puzzle! I suck at math puzzles! Better summon Professor Smith, my calculus teacher!"

Create Homunculus is find familiar, I see.

Freezing Ray makes me nervous, but so long as there aren't means to triple-quicken into the stratosphere under this system, it shouldn't turn into Shivering Touch.

Potential problem with Invisibility: you could dismiss it just before attacking, and still get the surprise advantage. Still, you wouldn't get the bonuses for being an invisible attacker that way, so ... eh.

CMW likewise looks good.

On a second look at Dispel Magic, I wonder if the opposed caster should get the option to instantly reallocate open SP to an Invest spell that is dispelled to sustain it. That would allow you to simulate a kind of "wearing down the opponent's defenses" with repeated dispels, and increase the tactical significance of having extra open SP.

Explosive Missile is a much-improved Fireball, but those improvements may be a little too much in places. Unavoidable damage is understandable, but I can't help worrying a little about it. The Cold variant is basically a Save-or-Die — very few people are going to make that strength check. Electricity likewise hits pretty hard.

Glibness references Discern Lies and Zone of Truth, but those spells don't exist yet. Presumably they will, so no big deal.

Dimension Door is interesting, although once you get it movement on foot kind of disappears. Maybe it should be Invest for both the close and medium-range transit, and the range of movement is just dependent on the action type used?

CSW still looks good, and CCW is awesome. My only concern with the new cure model is really that the top tier cure spells cost a lot, and considering the general attitude toward in-combat healing, they may not be good enough for their levels. It's a little subjective, but that's my knee-jerk reaction.

And yeah, I think the 10th level spells have rough parity. They're hard to compare, since they have such different functions, but one is a miles-wide defense and the other allows you to become Lich-King of the Necropolis, so they certainly have the kind of scale I'd expect.

It does occur to me that maybe Create Undead should have a clause allowing you to use it on yourself (maybe for extra SP?), just so you can become Lich-King of the Necropolis.

TravelLog
2012-01-09, 06:51 PM
I'll begin this PEACH by saying two things: 1) I highly approve of your stated goal, and 2) I like how you went about doing it.

However, there are a couple things I'd like to address.



The casting system starts with Spell Points. Spells have a SP cost, and, depending on the spell, that amount of SP must either be Open, Invested, or Burnt. Otherwise, spells can be used "at-will," the exception being that if you've invested or burnt all of your SP, then you can't cast any other spells until you either reallocate or recover your SP. Reallocating invested SP requires dismissing a spell with invested SP, and then casting a new spell that you invest the SP in (this is usually a free action + the new spell's casting time). Recovering burnt SP requires 8 hours of rest.

At first read, I immediately notice that this is slightly more complicated than Psionics, but not overly so. My main concern here is the increased amount of bookkeeping (of which wizards already have a good deal) required, not to mention the increased complexity in planning how to allocate your SP. Still, we've just started, so let's continue.



Putting it Together
So, for example, a 5th level Wizard might have the Burning Blade (1 SP), Sleep (1 SP), Barkskin (2 SP), and Fireball (3 SP) spells and 10 total SP. Burning Blade requires only that 1 SP be open to use and Barkskin requires that 2 SP be invested, while Sleep requires 1 SP to be burnt and Fireball requires 3 SP to be burnt. As long as he has 2 SP invested in Barkskin and 1 SP open he can benefit from Barkskin and cast Burning Blade all day. Even keeping those 3 untouched, the Wizard still has 7 SP for the day to burn between Sleep and Fireball.

A good explanation, and things are much clearer. Still however, this is a low-level example, and the complexity will grow as you gain more SP and more spell options. I will say however, that this already feels like a reworked sorcerer rather than a wizard to me. Speaking of which, where do Sorcerers fit in this new system? Are they eliminated entirely? Or will it be a future project?


Weapon & Armor Proficiencies
A Wizard is proficient with all simple weapons, but is not proficient with any armors or shields. Neither weapons nor armor interfere with any gestures the Wizard needs to make to cast his spells should he choose to gain rudimentary martial training.

Another new difference! I can't say I disagree, but it does mean that a wizard can now take much more punishment, and is not nearly as squishy. Not a problem per se, merely a consideration in character building.


Spells
You begin play with the knowledge of all Cantrips and of four 1st level spells. As you gain levels you learn new spells as shown in the table above. Spells have a Spell Point cost equal to their spell level, and this cost may be represented as Open, Invest, or Burn, depending on the spell.

You may cast spells you know any number of times per day as long as you are able to pay the spell's cost.

All spells you cast have a saving throw DC of 10 + 1/2 your level + your Charisma modifier. In order to cast a spell you must have an Intelligence score equal to, at least, 10 + spell level. You cannot cast spells with an alignment descriptor that isn't shared by your alignment. You may gain bonus Spell Points per day based on a high Wisdom modifier (+1 SP per point of Wisdom modifier, max +1 SP per spell level).

At 4th level and every two levels thereafter you may choose to lose a spell known in order to learn a new spell up to one level lower than the highest spell level you are able to cast.

This I do not like. I would understand 2 attribute MAD, but 3 attributes, just to cast spells (not counting Constitution, which all characters need to some degree) is something I dislike. I would have the Wizard pick one of the three, and have it apply to Spells per level and casting, and have a second attribute chosen to serve for spell DCs.


Magic Missile (Sp): As a standard action you may make a ranged touch attack against a creature or object within Medium range (100ft + 10ft/caster level) to deal 1d6 damage of your choice between cold, electricity, or fire damage. At every odd level after 1st the damage dealt by your Magic Missile increases by 1d6. You may split the damage dealt by a Magic Missile between multiple targets, making a separate ranged touch attack roll for each target, and dividing the damage dice between targets as you see fit.

A Magic Missile attack gains a bonus to the attack roll equal to 1/2 the number of damage dice it deals, rounded down (so 1d6 gets a +0 bonus, but 2d6 gets a +1 bonus). If you choose to divide the targets of your Magic Missile attack, each separate attack roll receives the full bonus (so if your Magic Missile deals a total of 6d6 damage and you split that between three targets, each attack roll gets a +3 bonus).

This is a spell-like ability with an equivalent spell level equal to the number of damage dice it deals.

I approve. Did you purposefully leave out Acid though?


Arcane Resistance (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, you gain a bonus to saving throws against spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities that specifically target you equal to your Intelligence modifier. Furthermore, when a creature you threaten uses a supernatural ability, that creature provokes an attack of opportunity from you.

Interesting and useful. I like it.

I would have loved more class features though (and I can see you got rid of familiars, which I approve of).


Spells, An Analysis:

*Deep breath*...and begin.

Aura of Menace/Competence: As is, they feel a bit like cantrips to me. If they scaled (even very slightly, or at increased cost), I think they would be on a much more firm footing.

Bolster: A solid early spell to prolong lifespan. Nice job.

Breath of Night: This feels a bit strong for a 1st level spell (especially the 50% concealment bit). Regardless, I think it might be good to explain concealment. Are they concealed from each other, or just those outside the area of the spell? Both? Specifics are important.

Cause Fear: Solid. I think if it becomes Frightened though, it should get a save each hour to end the effect. Or something of that nature. At least for a first level spell.

Cure Light Wounds: Question here. You say "Will Negates" but you also say that the "spell cures all creatures whether they are living, undead, or constructed", meaning it doesn't have any negative effects so far as I can see. So what is the save against? I do question healing ability damage at first level though. I think that should only be at later levels by burning more SP.

Dark Speech: Pain Solid.

Devil's Sight: No complaints.

Eldritch Spear: Nice.

Leaps and Bounds: Very nice. I like this idea a lot.

Mage's Armor: Good job.

Mage's Sword: As with Magic Missile, are you leaving out Acid on purpose? It's fine, I just want to know for sure.

Power Word: Sleep As powerful now as ever. No complaints though. :smallsmile:

Shield of Faith: Is there a way to defend against [Neutral] or un-aligned? I think there should be. Interesting touch mixing with Magic Circle against X. I think the later two components should require additional SP.

Summon Monster: RAW, I can summon multiple creatures without needing them to be the same species or type. Intentional? I also think there should be a way to control creatures with higher Intelligence by spending more SP, perhaps 1 per 2 points of Int?

Tacitus
2012-01-09, 07:35 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say acid was probably not included to prevent giving the mage a burrow speed. XD

>.> You know, acid ignores hardness, and if someone sees that you know they're just going to go to town on mountains with it. >.>

Eldritch Fusillade is fun, I love it.

I'm somewhat worried about running into the pyromaniac's dilemma, if you chose to go blaster-mage. Given the freedom of switching between three energy types (and the spells that change the damage to Force or Half-Shadow) it probably won't be as much of a problem, but maybe an option or class feature to add in some SP Burn to circumvent or reduce resistances and immunities?

gkathellar
2012-01-09, 07:38 PM
I would understand 2 attribute MAD, but 3 attributes, just to cast spells

I feel it's worth pointing out that many builds don't actually need one of the ability scores. Unless you use a lot of Burn spells or a metric ton of Invest spells, you don't really need Wisdom for spell points. If you're going to skip out on offensive spells (or at least spells with saves) you can safely ignore Charisma. Intelligence is the only required constant, and by 20th level you only need Int 20, so I'd say that the MAD isn't as bad as it looks at first.

Mulletmanalive
2012-01-09, 07:59 PM
I really only have one PEACH, but i'll get that out of the way before I start praising.

I understand the damage threshold caps in the cure spells, but i can't heal my buddy if he suffers more than 50% damage with Cure Light Wounds?

This is just a suggestion, but wouldn't it be superior to just limit every healing spell to only functioning up to a minute after the damage is inflicted?

Think about it; combat healing becomes important[er] again, the guy who decides to heal feels like he's actually contributing something and as Burn spells, they're costly on resources so it's not like it's going to be taken lightly...

Also, you called the class Wizard [which has assumptions attached to it] but the term Mage crops up repeatedly in the spells list. One or the other should probably change for stylistic reasons and i suggest calling both Mage as it's more generic and implies both Wisdom [in the old use] and Intellect [in the more modern use].

My two cents. Filthy American lucre...

On the other hand, BRAVO.

A MAD system that doesn't punish you for showing up, one that even encourages having decent physical stats without demanding it.

The three links system is a nice idea, one similar to what i've been playing with for some time [though as i've been trying to create a strict bedrock from which spells are carved, i'm taking a lot longer over it]. I'm now hoping that you'll go on to create a fighter fix with a similar logic, a rogue/cunning system with similar logic and...y'know, three classes, infinite permutations would do fine, thinking about it.

After rolling my eyes at the 5e announcement, this has me actually interested in something fresh again. Bravo, once again.

Just to Browse
2012-01-09, 09:57 PM
Interesting work, burn I am also against the current setup of the burn mechanic. While that proposed algorithm was not a fantastic idea, the whole "X Resource per day" is a poor idea. This suffers from the hardcore 15-minute workday problem that psionics has--you use your spells and be an OP badass for some of the day, and then you're out of abilities and end up flinging pew pew baby missiles until the party decides they've had enough of you being incompetent and want to rest.

It's basically the problems with the vancian system with glitter on them. Something needs to be done during the day to get those SP back, like a per-encounter thing or the warblade's recovery setup.


After rolling my eyes at the 5e announcement...

But open playtesting, man! :smallbiggrin:

Ziegander
2012-01-11, 02:22 PM
AAGGGGHHHHHHHH!!! So many replies!


A good explanation, and things are much clearer. Still however, this is a low-level example, and the complexity will grow as you gain more SP and more spell options.

It does have some more complexity to it than Psionics, yes, but it was my hope that the relatively few SP a Wizard has will make it simple enough in play.


I will say however, that this already feels like a reworked sorcerer rather than a wizard to me. Speaking of which, where do Sorcerers fit in this new system? Are they eliminated entirely? Or will it be a future project?

The reason I stuck with the name Wizard is because in literature Wizard/Warlock/Sorcerer are all used synonymously to refer to the same characters. Merlin is called a Wizard when in actuality he was more like a D&D Druid. Gandalf is called a Wizard when in actuality he was more like a D&D Cleric. The intention is that this Wizard class replaces ALL OTHER CASTER CLASSES. This is the class that casts spells. The only one.


This I do not like. I would understand 2 attribute MAD, but 3 attributes, just to cast spells (not counting Constitution, which all characters need to some degree) is something I dislike. I would have the Wizard pick one of the three, and have it apply to Spells per level and casting, and have a second attribute chosen to serve for spell DCs.

And warrior classes all "need" a high Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, but I never hear anyone calling for a system-wide rewrite to correct this "problem." As gkathellar points out later, any given Wizard may or may not need all three of Int/Wis/Cha, depending on how he selects his spells known.


I approve. Did you purposefully leave out Acid though?

As a matter of fact, I did. Acid is FAR more powerful than Cold, Electricity, or Fire because it ignores hardness. I didn't want to include a special "or Acid but 1d4/two levels" option, because that makes the ability less clean and because it still has the issue of tunneling through anything with Acid.


I would have loved more class features though (and I can see you got rid of familiars, which I approve of).

I am planning on including some Alternate Class Features in the future.


Aura of Menace/Competence: As is, they feel a bit like cantrips to me. If they scaled (even very slightly, or at increased cost), I think they would be on a much more firm footing.

Hmm... what do other people think of this? They definitely seem stronger than an equivalent level cantrip to me, but perhaps they are a bit lacking (I do need to correct Aura of Menace, because it doesn't make sense).


Breath of Night: This feels a bit strong for a 1st level spell (especially the 50% concealment bit). Regardless, I think it might be good to explain concealment. Are they concealed from each other, or just those outside the area of the spell? Both? Specifics are important.

The concealment is from within and without the cloud, as would be for the Obscuring Mist spell (which Breath of the Night is copypasta'd from, but slightly modified).


Cause Fear: Solid. I think if it becomes Frightened though, it should get a save each hour to end the effect. Or something of that nature. At least for a first level spell.

I'll do that, yes, that makes sense.


Cure Light Wounds: Question here. You say "Will Negates" but you also say that the "spell cures all creatures whether they are living, undead, or constructed", meaning it doesn't have any negative effects so far as I can see. So what is the save against?

It's against the healing. That's what the Harmless tag is there for. It's only relevant for creatures that "don't want to be healed."


Shield of Faith: Is there a way to defend against [Neutral] or un-aligned? I think there should be. I think the later two components should require additional SP.

Yeah, you can defend against Neutral/Unaligned creatures by specifying a creature type rather than alignment. So you can Shield of Faith (Animals), or Shield of Faith (Constructs), or Shield of Faith (Evil), etc. The latter two components are copypasta'd (with slight tweaks) from the 1st level Protection from Evil spell.


Summon Monster: RAW, I can summon multiple creatures without needing them to be the same species or type. Intentional? I also think there should be a way to control creatures with higher Intelligence by spending more SP, perhaps 1 per 2 points of Int?

Eh, not really intentional, but I also don't see how that would be a problem per se. Controlling more powerful creatures with higher Intelligence will be the purview of higher level Summon spells. ;)


I'm going to go out on a limb and say acid was probably not included to prevent giving the mage a burrow speed. XD

>.> You know, acid ignores hardness, and if someone sees that you know they're just going to go to town on mountains with it. >.>

Indeed.


Eldritch Fusillade is fun, I love it.

Inspired by Diamond Mind's Avalanche of Blades maneuver. I love it too.


I'm somewhat worried about running into the pyromaniac's dilemma, if you chose to go blaster-mage. Given the freedom of switching between three energy types (and the spells that change the damage to Force or Half-Shadow) it probably won't be as much of a problem, but maybe an option or class feature to add in some SP Burn to circumvent or reduce resistances and immunities?

Feats will handle this, my friend, feats.


I feel it's worth pointing out that many builds don't actually need one of the ability scores. Unless you use a lot of Burn spells or a metric ton of Invest spells, you don't really need Wisdom for spell points. If you're going to skip out on offensive spells (or at least spells with saves) you can safely ignore Charisma. Intelligence is the only required constant, and by 20th level you only need Int 20, so I'd say that the MAD isn't as bad as it looks at first.

Exactly, using this Wizard, a player could safely ignore Charisma and Wisdom entirely, and as long as he had Int 11 at 1st level, and Int 20 before 20th level, he could play as a melee warrior with emphasis on Strength and Constitution and still kick some serious tail.


I understand the damage threshold caps in the cure spells, but i can't heal my buddy if he suffers more than 50% damage with Cure Light Wounds?

This is just a suggestion, but wouldn't it be superior to just limit every healing spell to only functioning up to a minute after the damage is inflicted?

Think about it; combat healing becomes important[er] again, the guy who decides to heal feels like he's actually contributing something and as Burn spells, they're costly on resources so it's not like it's going to be taken lightly...

I'm still not sold on my newest versions of the Cure spells, and they will be subject to CONSTANT scrutiny and change, so trust me I take your feedback into consideration. They are leagues and away better than the standard Cures, but they are still too costly for "optimal" usage.


After rolling my eyes at the 5e announcement, this has me actually interested in something fresh again. Bravo, once again.

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! High praise. I'm not worthy!


It's basically the problems with the vancian system with glitter on them. Something needs to be done during the day to get those SP back, like a per-encounter thing or the warblade's recovery setup.

And back to feeling humbled.

I don't want to sound dismissive, but the very fact that, by using this class, you will never be able to cast more than 4 spells per day of your highest spell level if you only pick and use SP Burn spells should automatically discourage players from doing that. And if it doesn't, well, I'd like to think that the party certainly will discourage the Wizard player from doing that.

In answer to your concern though, I just am not going to design a SP recharge mechanic, especially not in any sort of per-encounter, maneuver-recovery like system. Something on the order of a more accessible Pearl of Power? Maybe.

Just to Browse
2012-01-11, 02:47 PM
And back to feeling humbled.

I don't want to sound dismissive, but the very fact that, by using this class, you will never be able to cast more than 4 spells per day of your highest spell level if you only pick and use SP Burn spells should automatically discourage players from doing that. And if it doesn't, well, I'd like to think that the party certainly will discourage the Wizard player from doing that.Your iconic party will have a sorc/wiz redux, and a priest-ish redux, and perhaps a paladin redux (if there even becomes a gish class). Then a fighter and a rogue. That's 50% of the party who can pull those shenanigans, so saying "the rest of the party will stop you!" doesn't hold all that much weight. I've also played mage-exclusive games, where the 15-minute workday doesn't hurt anyone and therefore doesn't bother anyone.

So it's definitely still a problem, especially if this class is meant to be The Only Casting Class(tm).


In answer to your concern though, I just am not going to design a SP recharge mechanic, especially not in any sort of per-encounter, maneuver-recovery like system. Something on the order of a more accessible Pearl of Power? Maybe.Maybe, but that still doesn't absolve the problem with Vancian Casting beyond making it pretty. Perhaps I shall write a quick reduced-point list based on encounters.

gkathellar
2012-01-11, 07:09 PM
Your iconic party will have a sorc/wiz redux, and a priest-ish redux, and perhaps a paladin redux (if there even becomes a gish class). Then a fighter and a rogue. That's 50% of the party who can pull those shenanigans, so saying "the rest of the party will stop you!" doesn't hold all that much weight. I've also played mage-exclusive games, where the 15-minute workday doesn't hurt anyone and therefore doesn't bother anyone.

This would be a solid bet, except that only some spells are for Burn. Sure, you can't hurl Energy Missiles all day, but if you keep even a quarter of your SP open, you can use your most powerful Open and Invest spells whenever you want. And those can be pretty powerful as well.

Shadow Lord
2012-01-11, 09:52 PM
There should be a Feat for applying the acid element to spells.

Also, some way of extending undead beyond an extended rest.

Ziegander
2012-01-17, 10:57 PM
Just popping in to say that I am meaning to get back to this. More subtle stuff is on the menu for the next spells I want to design.

eftexar
2012-01-18, 01:44 AM
I don't think the problem that was with vanacian spellcasting is as prominent. And I think its fine. Instead of 'always going nova' it "has the option of going nova', which is a nice change. Actually I'm a bit jealous of these mechanics. Wish I'd thought of them.
Anyways I would avoid spells like wish or miracle. I think it is too much like get out of jail free card. Creating your own plane is powerful, but at least a DM can prepare for it a little better. The only legitimate uses for a wish spell (simply because there isn't another way to do it that I'm aware of) are bringing back a destroyed soul or undoing permanent effects not removable else wise.
I'm also not so sure about the cure spells (as someone earlier mentioned). I would find some other way to limit their use.

BelGareth
2012-01-18, 01:54 PM
I like this a lot, very well thought out.

However I don't like the idea of having to redux spells, the current spells are awesome, I would prefer a system like this that incorporates the current spell lists.

I may write up an alternate design based off this style, with your permission of course.

Ziegander
2012-01-18, 01:58 PM
I like this a lot, very well thought out.

However I don't like the idea of having to redux spells, the current spells are awesome, I would prefer a system like this that incorporates the current spell lists.

I may write up an alternate design based off this style, with your permission of course.

Certainly you have my permission. My goal was to simplify the class and the associated spells as much as I could, and then to make previously unplayable spells more playable, so there were always plans to rewrite the spells themselves (even if only to change the entries to match the new mechanics).

WyvernLord
2012-01-26, 12:31 AM
Just an idea would a feat that reduces the cost of a single spell be out of the picture. It would be fun if characters could have signature spells. somebody probably
suggested this already.

DerTollUdo
2012-01-26, 03:43 PM
This is a very awesome rebuild. I am very much looking forward to the end product.

I will PEACH later, as I am a bit out of time for right now, but first question is on he undead spells. They all refer to not being able to control more than HD=CL, was that supposed to become CR=CL for the higher levels? Or is your 10th lvl army spell limited to just =/< 20hd skeletons?

Ziegander
2012-01-26, 04:01 PM
This is a very awesome rebuild. I am very much looking forward to the end product.

I will PEACH later, as I am a bit out of time for right now, but first question is on he undead spells. They all refer to not being able to control more than HD=CL, was that supposed to become CR=CL for the higher levels? Or is your 10th lvl army spell limited to just =/< 20hd skeletons?

I'm glad you like it. This is one of the more significant rewrites I've worked on, and I'm very happy with the way things turned out.

As to your question, no the hard HD limit is supposed to remain; however, I think you may be selling the army spell short. Create Undead and Create Undead Army do not make mere skeletons. They make, for example, Undead Young Adult Red Dragons, complete with fire immunity, frightful presence, 10d10 fire breath, and arcane spells as a 5th level sorcerer. And they make them your friends. Using Create Undead Army you can have up to 20 such friends.

Daremonai
2012-01-26, 07:14 PM
This is looking like a very solid class. If I ever get the chance to play one, I'll be all over it.

Hving said that, what kind of action is it to uninvest SP from a spell? For example, if it's dark and there's a creature with a Gaze attack lurking nearby, how long would it take to dismiss Devil's Sight?

Ziegander
2012-01-26, 07:24 PM
I still need to write complete rules for spellcasting in this new system, but until I do assume that investing SP is done as part of the action to cast the spell and uninvesting SP is a free action.

Noctis Vigil
2012-01-26, 08:23 PM
Zeigander, I'll be honest: I hate Wizard fixes. They never turn out the way intended, and always seem lackluster. I've never seen one I'd use.

Until now.

This is very impressive, and well thought out. I look forward to the final product.

Dragon Star
2012-01-26, 10:24 PM
This is amazing. Every other type of magic user fix I've seen just leaves me underwhelmed. I don't care about balance, if it takes me a minute to cast fireball, I'm not going to be a wizard. But this... This leaves the feeling of power, and makes the whole system so much less complex. I always hated spell slots, especially prepared casters. It just requires keeping tracking of so many things, and honestly is really counter intuitive. I recently converted my group from 4e *shudder* to 3.5, and they were baffled by wizards. But what you've made is perfect. It makes sense, it means you don't really have to worry about buffs, and it means that even at the end of the day you can be very useful. The only problem I have with it is with the new spells. I like them fine, actually better then vanilla, but 1. It will take you a looong time to get enough material to make this Playable and 2. There are so many spells out there already, it a real shame to loose all of them.
Could you make some kind of quick conversion method? Obviously, changing the spell yourself works better, but some kind of formula would give everyone a way to use this while you finish up the spell list. Thank you for this awesome 'brew!

DerTollUdo
2012-01-29, 03:52 PM
I'm glad you like it. This is one of the more significant rewrites I've worked on, and I'm very happy with the way things turned out.

As to your question, no the hard HD limit is supposed to remain; however, I think you may be selling the army spell short. Create Undead and Create Undead Army do not make mere skeletons. They make, for example, Undead Young Adult Red Dragons, complete with fire immunity, frightful presence, 10d10 fire breath, and arcane spells as a 5th level sorcerer. And they make them your friends. Using Create Undead Army you can have up to 20 such friends.

I see. I guess when I read it, I misread. Since it referenced another spell (create undead) that I didn't see existing anywhere, I just sorta guessed it referred to raise skeleton since that was the only other spell here.

Is Create Undead going to be something you port over soon? Because as is it caused me some confusion :P

Ziegander
2012-01-29, 04:03 PM
I see. I guess when I read it, I misread. Since it referenced another spell (create undead) that I didn't see existing anywhere, I just sorta guessed it referred to raise skeleton since that was the only other spell here.

Is Create Undead going to be something you port over soon? Because as is it caused me some confusion :P

I'm sorry about the confusion. Create Undead is a 6th level spell, the first in the spoiler actually.


Create Undead
NECROMANCY (Compulsion) [Death]
Level: 6th
Cost: 6 Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target: 1 Corpse
Duration: Instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw: Will negates

As you cast this spell you know whether or not the corpse's soul is willing to return to the body with the knowledge that it will become Undead. If you cast this spell on a corpse with a willing soul, then no saving throw is necessary, but if the soul is unwilling, then this spell gains the [Evil] descriptor and that soul is entitled to a Will save to negate the effect.

When the spell is complete, the targeted corpse raises to unlife with all of the statistics, attacks, special abilities and qualities it had in life except that it loses its Constitution score and gains the Undead type. If the creature had less than 3 Intelligence in life, then it also loses its Intelligence score becoming Mindless.

You automatically control any Mindless Undead created in this way as long as their HD doesn't exceed your caster level until your next Extended Rest (8 hours of sleep for most creatures). You have no control over Intelligent Undead created in this way, though such creatures have a starting attitude of Friendly toward you and any of your allies (even if the soul was unwilling).

WyvernLord
2012-01-29, 07:12 PM
I know this has been said before but the cure line really needs to be changed. A single orc can do enough damage to make it impossible to heal someone in one hit. That will make it impossible to do the four encounters a day that you're supposed to do if the meatshield can't get healed after the first battle. The only way around this is if you force the caster to get the touch of healing reserve feat. But forcing something to happen isn't a good idea.
[/mini rant]
Another option is an acf that lets people trade magic missile for a healing type abillity.

Ziegander
2012-01-29, 07:31 PM
I know this has been said before but the cure line really needs to be changed. A single orc can do enough damage to make it impossible to heal someone in one hit. That will make it impossible to do the four encounters a day that you're supposed to do if the meatshield can't get healed after the first battle. The only way around this is if you force the caster to get the touch of healing reserve feat. But forcing something to happen isn't a good idea.
[/mini rant]
Another option is an acf that lets people trade magic missile for a healing type abillity.

What about this? 1) Eliminate Cure Minor Wounds entirely. 2) Make all Cure spells actually cure exactly the same number of hit points. 3) Make each higher level Cure spell able to Cure hit points to a lower threshold of total hit points.

For example, all Cure spells heal 5 hit points per caster level. Cure Light Wounds is a cantrip that can't be used on creatures that are below 50% of their maximum hp. Cure Moderate Wounds is a 1st level spell and can't be used on creatures that are below 75% of their maximum hp. Cure Serious Wounds is a 2nd level spell and can't be used on creatures below 0 hit points. Cure Critical Wounds is a 3rd level spell is an immediate action that can be used on a creature even below -9 hit points.

It would also probably be a good idea then to restrict the use of Cure Minor Wounds to use within 1 minute, Cure Moderate to use within 1 day, Cure Serious to use within 1 week, and Cure Critical has no time restriction (except that it can't cure hit points to a creature below -9 if the creature is already dead).

Thoughts?

Noctis Vigil
2012-01-29, 10:30 PM
That has all the same inherent problems that the cure series as posted has. At 1st level, a Fighter will have 10HP (assuming Con 10 for simplicity's sake). That means he's going to need a Cure almost every single time he's hit, or he'll be out of the game for the rest of the day. Anything lower than a D10 is going to be out of the running after one hit. Rogue? He has 3HP before he can't be healed for the day. This becomes less of an issue as you level, but still just doesn't jive right.

My suggestion: Cure Light Wounds is 2HP per caster level plus your Wis mod, Cure Moderate Wounds is 4HP per caster level plus twice your Wis mod, Cure Serious Wounds is 6HP per caster level plus three times your Wis mod, Cure Critical Wounds is 8HP per caster level plus four times your Wis mod, and Heal is 10HP per caster level plus five times your Wis mod (and possibly still cures other unwanted side effects; Heal would be your ultimate healing spell here, probably boosted to level 7 on a 10 level scale). This would work out fairly well, and means you have no rolling at all when you cast a Cure spell, since it always heals a flat rate.

The time limit isn't too big a deal (I actually liked it), although I'd make it 5 minutes, 1 hour, 1 day, unlimited.

Ziegander
2012-01-29, 11:29 PM
There's no real way to fix healing at 1st level without doing something to "fix" hit points at 1st level. The one hit and you're dead effect is fully a problem at 1st level no matter what I do with the Cure spells.

Another possibility, to scale healing with a character's actual hit points, would be to have the Cure spells heal X hit dice worth of hit points.

For example, when Cure Light Wounds is used on a Wizard with Con 14 it cures an amount of hit points equal to Xd4 + 2X. When Cure Light Wounds is used on a raging Barbarian with Con 20 it cures an amount of hit points equal to Xd12 + 5X.

The question, then, for that model would be how the Cure spells scale.

TuggyNE
2012-01-30, 07:37 AM
There's no real way to fix healing at 1st level without doing something to "fix" hit points at 1st level. The one hit and you're dead effect is fully a problem at 1st level no matter what I do with the Cure spells.

The problem Noctis is referring to, I think, is mostly the thresholds. Not only are level one characters in the "one good hit and you're dead" range, but with the current "75% health or better" on Cure Moderate (should that be 25%?), they are also in "one light tap and you can't be healed". Basically, the thresholds reduce your useful HP, because if you drop too far, you can't be picked back up. This has an odd interaction with spell levels -- as you level, your useful HP increase as a percentage of total HP, which is already increasing linearly. So survivability at, say, 5th level would be vastly better than at 1st, and the gap is larger than in normal play.

Daremonai
2012-01-30, 12:28 PM
I don't see a problem with the healing spells without thresholds. Cure Minor can only heal fresh wounds, so no infinite out-of-combat healing, and you have to burn SP for the rest of them as a balancing factor - by the time that's no longer a significant cost, it's no longer a significant amount of healing either. Demanding that the target be only lightly wounded because the spell is called "cure light wounds" seems (to me) a very arbitrary decision.

DerTollUdo
2012-01-31, 03:44 PM
I'm sorry about the confusion. Create Undead is a 6th level spell, the first in the spoiler actually.

...


Guess I failed that spot check...oh well, looks good then :P



...

For example, when Cure Light Wounds is used on a Wizard with Con 14 it cures an amount of hit points equal to Xd4 + 2X. When Cure Light Wounds is used on a raging Barbarian with Con 20 it cures an amount of hit points equal to Xd12 + 5X.
...

Thoughts?

I actually like this model. I like that everyone benefits "equally" from the same spell. That way the Wizard doesn't need to cast 1 spell to heal the rogue, and 3 to heal the equally leveled Barbarian.

It would also lend itself to being able to stay useful in an extremely high powered game where HP totals range from 200-1000+ by basing it on their con score and HD.

As for the write up:


Cure * Wounds
NECROMANCY (Healing) [Life]
Level: *
Cost: * Burn
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: ((Maybe try something like a scaling range too? Like close, medium, then long for the big one? Just a thought.))
Target: 1 Creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)

The targeted creature is cured for an amount equal to your CL*their HD type + CL*their constitution modifier (max CL of 10, 15, 20, no limit).

This spell cures all creatures whether they are living, undead, or constructed.

Generic template, * is a placeholder for the actual spell levels.

Made a suggestion for range as well. Also, this model assumes 4 different cure spells. 1st, 5th, 7th, 10th.
Also maybe have the 7th and 10th level heal some ability damage and other negative effects?

How's that?

RedWarlock
2012-01-31, 10:50 PM
Only big problem I see is, what happens when they multiclass to different HD sizes? Sorcerer/Barbarian, for instance, especially with different level splits? Does a Sorc5/Barb1 heal different dice from a Sorc1/Barb5?

Ziegander
2012-01-31, 10:56 PM
Only big problem I see is, what happens when they multiclass to different HD sizes? Sorcerer/Barbarian, for instance, especially with different level splits? Does a Sorc5/Barb1 heal different dice from a Sorc1/Barb5?

The way I would handle that is you use the biggest, most recent hit dice first and then cure a number of hit dice equal to caster level (up to the cap anyway).

So for example, a Fighter 4/Monk 2/Rogue 3/Barbarian 2 (character level 11) has a Cure Moderate Wounds spell cast on him by a Wizard 7. The spell heals 1 hit dice per caster level (max 10HD), so 7HD in this case. Using the biggest, most recent hit dice first, the character is cured of 2d12 + 4d10 + 1d8 + his own Con mod*7 hit points.

Does that make sense?

DerTollUdo
2012-02-01, 11:03 AM
That does pose an issue, RedWarlock.

Hmmm. The way Ziegander put it would work, but it imposes another level of complexity to something we are trying to simplify...

How about you use the highest lvl class, or in case of a tie just the highest hit die? Does that seem balanced?

Shadow Lord
2012-02-01, 11:05 AM
Is it possible to create Permenant Undead using this system?

Ziegander
2012-02-01, 11:18 AM
How about you use the highest lvl class, or in case of a tie just the highest hit die? Does that seem balanced?

Not particularly. That would mean that a Rogue 10/Barbarian 10 would be healed 20d12 when a Fighter 20 would only be healed 20d10. Doesn't seem very fair when the Fighter's almost surely got more hit points. I don't see what's that complicated about using the biggest, most recent hit dice first and healing the oldest, smallest hit dice last.


Is it possible to create Permenant Undead using this system?

Oh yes, you just can't permanently control those Undead. the Create Undead spells create permanent Undead, you just lose control over them if you sleep. Even Raise Skeleton can create a permanent Skeleton if you're willing to raise something too big for you to control.

Shadow Lord
2012-02-01, 12:21 PM
Ah. That makes it a bit difficult to set up a minionmancer, doesn't it?

What happens if you are from a race or type that doesn't sleep.

Ziegander
2012-02-01, 12:38 PM
Ah. That makes it a bit difficult to set up a minionmancer, doesn't it?

It's part of the point. The spells are powerful enough without using them create permanent armies of controlled Undead. If it worked any other way you could just cast it, go to sleep and get your SP back, keep the minion, and then make another one ad infinitum. Which would get broken very, very fast.


What happens if you are from a race or type that doesn't sleep.

I still have to fine tune the mechanics as I've said elsewhere, but suffice it to say, an Extended Rest isn't always 8 hours of sleep, but it is for most creatures. If you don't sleep you must still rest for a certain period of time and during that time you will still lose control of any controlled Undead.

DerTollUdo
2012-02-01, 01:04 PM
Not particularly. That would mean that a Rogue 10/Barbarian 10 would be healed 20d12 when a Fighter 20 would only be healed 20d10. Doesn't seem very fair when the Fighter's almost surely got more hit points. I don't see what's that complicated about using the biggest, most recent hit dice first and healing the oldest, smallest hit dice last.


It becomes awkward and clunky when someone multiclasses more than just once. What happens if they stagger their leveling across more than 2 classes? 1dX+1dX+1dX+1dX etc? Seems like instead of streamlining healing that would slow it down.

Maybe make it heal half of the HD as the highest and half as the lowest? Then your example would become: 10D12+10D6+con*20=max 180+20*con. 20D10+20*con=max 200+20*con.

Also, why would a rogue split with barb? Doesn't make sense lol...and that's ignoring the fact that fighter 20 is silly :P

EdroGrimshell
2012-02-01, 01:21 PM
It's part of the point. The spells are powerful enough without using them create permanent armies of controlled Undead. If it worked any other way you could just cast it, go to sleep and get your SP back, keep the minion, and then make another one ad infinitum. Which would get broken very, very fast.

Plus you could use incantations (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm) for that. Makes some sense to have a longer, more arduous ritual to create permanent undead in this system. And controlling them would be more the problem, since creating the undead would already be pretty lengthy, adding in the control component would only make it more difficult and likely to fail. So a spell to control the created undead mixed with the animating incantation would, while making it a much harder task, make it a bit more realistic.

DerTollUdo
2012-02-10, 11:50 AM
So has any new progress been made here?