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View Full Version : Ways to pump ac other than heavier armor?



WarKitty
2012-01-08, 04:36 PM
Is there a good list somewhere of how to pump up your AC? I have a shaman/invoker multiclass and kind of low AC. My strength score is low enough I can't take the feats for heavy armor.

Tegu8788
2012-01-08, 04:50 PM
Hybrid talent will most likely boost your AC, just a matter of which version is better. Don't forget, if the armor is light you can add you Dex or Int mod to your AC.

WarKitty
2012-01-08, 05:09 PM
Hybrid talent will most likely boost your AC, just a matter of which version is better. Don't forget, if the armor is light you can add you Dex or Int mod to your AC.

What's the source on Hybrid talent? I can't find it in my usual source list.

Edit: I should add that I am multiclassed through standard multiclass feat, not a hybrid class. So I guess I'm a shaman with an invoker multiclass? I'm not really clear on how to express this stuff.

Tegu8788
2012-01-08, 05:19 PM
My mistake, I was holding my phone at an odd angle. You did it right. There are some fears that let you use a staff you get a shield like bonus in PHB2 I think.

WarKitty
2012-01-08, 05:56 PM
My mistake, I was holding my phone at an odd angle. You did it right. There are some fears that let you use a staff you get a shield like bonus in PHB2 I think.

Yeah that's the only way at all that I've found if you have low strength. I didn't realize just how bad low strength is in 4e...I'm basically locked out of all armor and shield feats. My stats are wis>con>int>cha>dex>str.

Tegu8788
2012-01-08, 06:03 PM
You can use your shaman pet to act as a damage sponge to effectively reduce your need for AC. And also, if you have a good defender, your AC won't need to be super high.

Mando Knight
2012-01-08, 06:08 PM
With no Strength and Shaman/Invoker, you're mostly out of luck for pumping AC. You're primarily a rear-line character anyway, though, so I wouldn't worry about it too much unless you or your spirit companion have been getting attacked repeatedly.

You can get +1 AC for two feats by taking Two-Weapon Defense (requires Two-Weapon Fighting), but that requires 13 Dex and that you use a weapon-implement (i.e. a totemic spear) or unslotted implement (holy symbol or ki focus... which unfortunately aren't on the Invoker or Shaman implement lists). If you go this route, a Rhythm Blade will increase your AC by another +1, and again if it's a Parrying Dagger.

Boots of the Fencing Master require you to spend your move actions shifting, but also give you a tidy little bonus to AC.

WarKitty
2012-01-08, 06:17 PM
With no Strength and Shaman/Invoker, you're mostly out of luck for pumping AC. You're primarily a rear-line character anyway, though, so I wouldn't worry about it too much unless you or your spirit companion have been getting attacked repeatedly.

You can get +1 AC for two feats by taking Two-Weapon Defense (requires Two-Weapon Fighting), but that requires 13 Dex and that you use a weapon-implement (i.e. a totemic spear) or unslotted implement (holy symbol or ki focus... which unfortunately aren't on the Invoker or Shaman implement lists). If you go this route, a Rhythm Blade will increase your AC by another +1, and again if it's a Parrying Dagger.

Boots of the Fencing Master require you to spend your move actions shifting, but also give you a tidy little bonus to AC.

It's mostly the spirit companion that's an issue. I am planning on the feat that pumps its defenses by +2 next level. Unfortunately my dex is only a 10.

Drglenn
2012-01-08, 06:23 PM
Rod expertise gives you +1 shield bonus to ac and reflex when you're holding a rod. Great thing if you're proficient with them from Invoker MC

Yakk
2012-01-08, 07:13 PM
Shamans are one of the few classes in the game with a build that lacks access to heavy armor, and lacks a secondary stat-to-AC.

So there are a few ways to go about this. You could, as mentioned, use strength to get heavy armor (but you don't have that). You could be an int-secondary shaman, who then pumps int.

Another approach is to say "screw it". Assume your spirit companion will be killed and you'll have to soak up the damage, and you'll just resummon it. This strips any status effect, and limits the damage of the blow to level/2+5 (which is pretty low). Get feats that punish people for killing your spirit companion, feats to resummon it cheaper, etc.

Dimers
2012-01-08, 07:36 PM
Shamans are one of the few classes in the game with a build that lacks access to heavy armor, and lacks a secondary stat-to-AC.

Yeah, that's extremely rare, WarKitty. Bad luck for you that you chose a Con-secondary shaman for your first 4e character. :smallyuk:


Assume your spirit companion will be killed and you'll have to soak up the damage, and you'll just resummon it. This ... limits the damage of the blow to level/2+5 (which is pretty low).

And if you're raising your Con instead of Int, soaking up damage isn't as big a deal for you. You've got more hp and more surges than an Int shaman, though you and your SC get hit more often. As long as it's the SC that's taking the hit, you're fine -- you don't get dazed, blinded, prone or whatever from the attack, you don't take massive amounts of damage from a critical hit, it's just a plain and fairly low amount of hp damage.

Three more ways to get AC. By RAW, you can take Hafted Defense, using a staff as a weapon and implement in two hands (since invoker MC lets you use staves as implements). That's +1 AC, +1 Reflex. Second, also RAW, you can simply put on heavy armor anyway; you get its normal benefit but take -2 Reflex and -2 to all attacks. Third, I might also suggest asking the DM for a custom hide armor with the special property that it can be used without penalty by people with leather proficiency.

Kurald Galain
2012-01-08, 07:42 PM
You can use your shaman pet to act as a damage sponge to effectively reduce your need for AC. And also, if you have a good defender, your AC won't need to be super high.

This.

It's not so bad that you're locked out of armor and shield feats, since most of those feats aren't worth it in the first place. Getting +1 to armor class is not a very good deal for the price of one feat, every character should have better feats than that.

Consider that if you get attacked twenty times in a single combat, then +1 to AC will mean you get hit one time less. And if you do get attacked 20x per combat, your character's got bigger issues :smalltongue: .

WarKitty
2012-01-08, 08:12 PM
Another approach is to say "screw it". Assume your spirit companion will be killed and you'll have to soak up the damage, and you'll just resummon it. This strips any status effect, and limits the damage of the blow to level/2+5 (which is pretty low). Get feats that punish people for killing your spirit companion, feats to resummon it cheaper, etc.

This sounds like a good strategy. I was unaware of the existence of these.

theMycon
2012-01-09, 08:49 PM
Hate to steal a thread, but...
Same question, bard w/ paladin multiclass? He's a "valor" type bard, so ideally (but not necessarily) "songblade & shield" in the hands, going based on Cha>Con>Int>=Str>dex>wis.

darkdragoon
2012-01-09, 10:11 PM
Rod Expertise +Rhythm Blade dagger or sickle: +2 shield bonus

Elven Chain Shirt from the Mordenkainen book.

Studded leather armor (also from Mordenkainen) nets you 1 AC over normal leather and an anti-critical property. You still might prefer hide though.

MeeposFire
2012-01-09, 10:21 PM
Hate to steal a thread, but...
Same question, bard w/ paladin multiclass? He's a "valor" type bard, so ideally (but not necessarily) "songblade & shield" in the hands, going based on Cha>Con>Int>=Str>dex>wis.

You can wield a rhythm blade spiked shield. This will give you a total of +2 shield bonus to AC and wear chain. Depending on your str score in paragon you may be able to pick up scale mail. That and the shield makes for fighter level AC which should be enough.

Zaq
2012-01-09, 11:08 PM
If you can afford a level 4 item, just about anyone who's not using their arms slot can slap on a set of +1 Shielding Wrist Razors for a cheap +1 shield bonus to AC. Doesn't stack with other shield bonuses (except Rhythm Blade, but RB is weird anyway), but hey, it's cheap as free by late Heroic, and it's not like the arms slot is an especially valuable slot anyway (IAoP notwithstanding).

WickerNipple
2012-01-10, 01:15 AM
Personally, I would just ask your DM for a restat to let get the strength you need for chain. That's perfectly reasonable, and very common for your kind o shammy.

darkdragoon
2012-01-11, 10:21 AM
Doesn't stack with other shield bonuses (except Rhythm Blade, but RB is weird anyway), but hey, it's cheap as free by late Heroic, and it's not like the arms slot is an especially valuable slot anyway (IAoP notwithstanding).

I happen to like several of the shield enchantments, but they're pretty much all defense and healing which tends to lose out to offense as it is.

Rotho
2012-01-11, 11:15 AM
I happen to like several of the shield enchantments, but they're pretty much all defense and healing which tends to lose out to offense as it is.
Well they are shields, so that's kind of what they do. I do agree that there's some really nice enchantments, though (recoil, fellowship, that rebound shield, hypnotic, the one nullifying area attacks).

Anyway, Warkitty, I don't have much that hasn't already been said. If you can't boost your defenses, try boosting your survivability and recovery. More HP, higher surge value, damage resistance, powers that can help you be more self sufficient, etc.
Or just take Divine Healer and steal Battle Cleric's Lore for a free +2 shield bonus to AC and scale proficiency. Supposedly WotC confirmed that this is how it's supposed to work, but the persons making the claim didn't give a citation. If you can get away with it, though, it's a nice fix.
Or just find a means to consistently position yourself out of harms way. If you can consistently hide/fly/teleport somehow, put it to good use.

Zaq
2012-01-11, 10:34 PM
I happen to like several of the shield enchantments, but they're pretty much all defense and healing which tends to lose out to offense as it is.

Shielding Wrist Razors don't stack with an actual shield, so if you're capable of using a shield to put those enchantments on in the first place, you're not really missing anything.