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Fiery Diamond
2012-01-10, 02:32 PM
And here we are in the fifth iteration of the thread. Not terribly much longer until the next chapter (about a day.)

Last Thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202921)

So who thinks that everyone will now promptly forget about fullbring, and the extra characters will vanish completely, or in the case of Riruka, be relegated to hide in the corner with Chad? :smalltongue:

Turalisj
2012-01-10, 04:14 PM
Wooooosssshhh!

We need a Quincy based plot arc. Or find out more about Squad 0.

thubby
2012-01-10, 05:41 PM
woo, new thread!

Arakune
2012-01-10, 05:45 PM
Wooooosssshhh!

We need a Quincy based plot arc. Or find out more about Squad 0.

More specifically, a plot based on the 'magicians', though I believe the fullbring arc deals with that, only that long line of magicians managed to pass their abilities down their descendents.

Drolyt
2012-01-10, 05:57 PM
I want an arc dealing more with the backstory. Like Isshin, Ryuuken, and the 0th division.

Zale
2012-01-10, 05:58 PM
Magicians?

When did Bleach get Magicians? :smallconfused:

Psyren
2012-01-10, 06:17 PM
I want an arc dealing more with the backstory. Like Isshin, Ryuuken, and the 0th division.

This. WhY are those two friends, and WHY are the Dads so badass? (Especially Ryuuken, who could give two ***** about the spirit world despite likely being able to own 90% of its inhabitants.)

Arakune
2012-01-10, 06:38 PM
Magicians?

When did Bleach get Magicians? :smallconfused:

In one chapter they called the Quincy as one family of magicians or something.

thubby
2012-01-10, 08:39 PM
Magicians?

When did Bleach get Magicians? :smallconfused:

kido says hi

Mando Knight
2012-01-11, 11:50 AM
So who thinks that everyone will now promptly forget about fullbring, and the extra characters will vanish completely, or in the case of Riruka, be relegated to hide in the corner with Chad? :smalltongue:

New chapter...
New characters vanishing confirmed.

Return of three of the Visoreds to their pre-exile captain positions also confirmed. (Kensei to 9th, Shinji to 5th, Rose to 3rd)

Fiery Diamond
2012-01-11, 12:36 PM
Looks like I was wrong about Riruka sticking around; she vanishes too.

I liked Renji's reaction to Ichigo waltzing through the spirit gate.
"Yo, Renji."
"Yo."
-beat as Renji realizes what just happened-
"Hey Ichigo what do you think you're doing?!"


And after all those times of waiting and not having chapters around Christmastime, we now have 3 weeks off from Bleach. At least he'll probably start the new arc with the next chapter.

Fredaintdead
2012-01-11, 06:34 PM
My favourite part of this chapter:
Riruka saying that her and the Fullbringers would never be forgotten... BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

I literally fell off my chair laughing.

thubby
2012-01-11, 07:36 PM
on a related note, this week's anime was equally pointless.

Morph Bark
2012-01-11, 07:52 PM
So Riruka is delusional, Renji's response to Ichigo is hilarious and a bunch of old captains return. Wonder how the other Vizard fare.

Now cue Aizen taking over prison and making it into his own personal kingdom while being bound to his chair and forcing Ichigo to get down in there.

Thrawn183
2012-01-11, 08:53 PM
I like that Ichigo has maintained his slightly modified new outfit.

Psyren
2012-01-11, 08:59 PM
My favourite part of this chapter:
Riruka saying that her and the Fullbringers would never be forgotten... BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

I literally fell off my chair laughing.

The who? :smalltongue:



Now cue Aizen taking over prison and making it into his own personal kingdom while being bound to his chair and forcing Ichigo to get down in there.

I badly want this, but not yet. We need a new villain before we revisit Aizen.

Or better yet, have another villain break into prison, seemingly to rescue Aizen, and turn the tables by eating him to become immortal instead.

Turalisj
2012-01-11, 09:06 PM
Psyren, you know what you are saying right?

You are saying we have to have a Cell/Majin Buu arc. :smallamused:

Julian84
2012-01-11, 10:13 PM
Nice to see the captains got their old jobs back....

Annddd not much else. Yay.

That moment with Ichigo and Renji was funny though. I also liked the reactions of the captains. Personally my reaction would be more "Last time he was here, all hell broke loose... Bar the gates."

Turalisj
2012-01-11, 10:25 PM
My reaction would have been: "Don't tell Kenpachi.... please.":smallamused:

Psyren
2012-01-11, 11:37 PM
Psyren, you know what you are saying right?

You are saying we have to have a Cell/Majin Buu arc. :smallamused:

Heh. Was thinking more along the lines of e.g. Crovax taking over from Volrath or some other situation where the previous big bad is supplanted violently by the new one. (I know there's a trope for that, but my search-fu is failing me...)

Turalisj
2012-01-12, 12:49 AM
I think there's one for where the Dragon replaces the Big Bad, but Aizen killed the most likely candidate.

VanBuren
2012-01-12, 01:30 AM
I wonder what the result of Ichigo's conversation is going to be?

thubby
2012-01-12, 02:55 AM
I wonder what the result of Ichigo's conversation is going to be?

i don't know, but if he were to combine the 3 movement abilities he now knows, im pretty sure he could start screwing with relativity.

Dante & Vergil
2012-01-12, 06:22 AM
Jeez, it seems even Kubo wants to forget about the Fullbringers, too. Well, if that is just a kick to the ass.

Morph Bark
2012-01-12, 06:54 AM
Jeez, it seems even Kubo wants to forget about the Fullbringers, too. Well, if that is just a kick to the ass.

After the last panel with Riruka, it would have been appropriate to have a Kubo trollface saying "Fullbring? What's that?"

DiscipleofBob
2012-01-12, 10:15 AM
It's nice to see those Captain positions filled after so long, and it's also good news to the Vizards since I'm assuming they were all pardoned for their "crimes."

I'm guessing Urahara's case is more of a "Yes, he's forgiven. No, he's not coming back" sort of deal.

I think this one chapter had more plot-relevent details than the entirety of this arc.

Also, did Riruka just commit suicide? Or did she just leave?

Arakune
2012-01-12, 10:38 AM
It could be either one and we would never care.

darksolitaire
2012-01-12, 12:25 PM
It's nice to see those Captain positions filled after so long, and it's also good news to the Vizards since I'm assuming they were all pardoned for their "crimes."

I'm guessing Urahara's case is more of a "Yes, he's forgiven. No, he's not coming back" sort of deal.


Aizen took central 46 out (should not be new at this point), who were originally the ones who condemned Vizards. At some point it was mentioned that Old Man Holocaust is busy with administration, and that the central 46 is vacant. I don't know what is their situation now, but it seems logical that Yamamoto would welcome them back.

Turalisj, I think it was called Dragon Ascendant?

Mando Knight
2012-01-12, 01:32 PM
I think there's one for where the Dragon replaces the Big Bad, but Aizen killed the most likely candidate.

He killed all of the likely candidates. Except for Tousen.

thubby
2012-01-12, 01:34 PM
He killed all of the likely candidates. Except for Tousen.

that would imply tousen was a likely candidate. :smalltongue:

Psyren
2012-01-12, 04:45 PM
I think there's one for where the Dragon replaces the Big Bad, but Aizen killed the most likely candidate.

I know about Dragon Ascendant, but it's not what I meant. I mean where a new Big Bad (not an existing Dragon) comes out of nowhere and effortlessly defeats the old one to immediately establish his badassery in the eyes of the audience.

Still hitting a block on examples though...

I may have to start a YKTTW on this :smalltongue:

Tenno Seremel
2012-01-12, 04:53 PM
I mean where a new Big Bad (not an existing Dragon) comes out of nowhere and effortlessly defeats the old one to immediately establish his badassery in the eyes of the audience.

The Worf Effect? Oh, “If a new villain introduces himself by beating the previous villain, that's Make Way For The New Villains (a subtrope).”

Turalisj
2012-01-12, 05:11 PM
I know about Dragon Ascendant, but it's not what I meant. I mean where a new Big Bad (not an existing Dragon) comes out of nowhere and effortlessly defeats the old one to immediately establish his badassery in the eyes of the audience.

Still hitting a block on examples though...

I may have to start a YKTTW on this :smalltongue:

Always a Bigger Fish (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlwaysABiggerFish)

Psyren
2012-01-12, 06:01 PM
The disappointment of this arc just hit me again - we learned nothing about Chad and Orihime :smallfrown:


Always a Bigger Fish (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlwaysABiggerFish)

Yeah, that's closer, but too immediate - nobody's really worried about Aizen right now, so it's not like they'd really be saved from him, unless he took over the prison and was leading an uprising just prior to being eaten.

Checking the related tropes on that page, the closest I've yet found was Eviler Than Thou. That would fit perfectly but for the stipulation about villains' plots colliding - the trope I'm envisioning is where the supplanting threat is totally new, rather than an established scheming big bad. I don't think Bleach has one of those, though Kubo could always surprise us.

Drolyt
2012-01-12, 07:55 PM
Heh. Was thinking more along the lines of e.g. Crovax taking over from Volrath or some other situation where the previous big bad is supplanted violently by the new one. (I know there's a trope for that, but my search-fu is failing me...)
Isn't that just the Sorting Algorithm of Evil (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SortingAlgorithmOfEvil) combined with the Worf Effect (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect)?

thubby
2012-01-12, 08:28 PM
are we now doing trope math?

in that case, i demand to know the integral of the flying brick

Revlid
2012-01-13, 08:15 AM
I am busily laughing my ass off at Ukitake and Kyoraku being so nostalgic about how Ichiho's grown up when they weren't looking, considering that Ukitake met him once (in order to give him a bugged badge) and Kyoraku has never actually had a conversation with him.

Further amused by the apparent massive reform Soul Society has undergone in reaction to an abnormally-powerful teenager breaking and entering, and then beating up the Big Bad. I mean, sure, they still employ Mayuri, they still have a secret police, the Central 42 is still in charge, and we've heard nothing more about the hellish, ghettoized lower districts, but the Commander didn't order the murder of a former ally once they looked like they might be in trouble! That's progress!

God, this manga has fallen so far from its promising beginnings. I'm going to spend my weekend re-reading Lucifer & Biscuit Hammer. Now that's quality storytelling; and he only needed 65 chapters to do it, too.

Drolyt
2012-01-13, 09:20 AM
I am busily laughing my ass off at Ukitake and Kyoraku being so nostalgic about how Ichiho's grown up when they weren't looking, considering that Ukitake met him once (in order to give him a bugged badge) and Kyoraku has never actually had a conversation with him.

Further amused by the apparent massive reform Soul Society has undergone in reaction to an abnormally-powerful teenager breaking and entering, and then beating up the Big Bad. I mean, sure, they still employ Mayuri, they still have a secret police, the Central 42 is still in charge, and we've heard nothing more about the hellish, ghettoized lower districts, but the Commander didn't order the murder of a former ally once they looked like they might be in trouble! That's progress!

God, this manga has fallen so far from its promising beginnings. I'm going to spend my weekend re-reading Lucifer & Biscuit Hammer. Now that's quality storytelling; and he only needed 65 chapters to do it, too.
I have to agree, but I must ask, what is Lucifer & Biscuit Hammer?

Prime32
2012-01-13, 09:25 AM
Further amused by the apparent massive reform Soul Society has undergone in reaction to an abnormally-powerful teenager breaking and entering, and then beating up the Big Bad.Also their entire government died. That's something.

Drolyt
2012-01-13, 09:40 AM
Also their entire government died. That's something.
The fact that having your parliament equivalent slaughtered somehow improves your society says a lot about said society.

Psyren
2012-01-13, 10:41 AM
The fact that having your parliament equivalent slaughtered somehow improves your society says a lot about said society.

{Insert topical comment about congress} :smallbiggrin:

Drolyt
2012-01-13, 11:17 AM
{Insert topical comment about congress} :smallbiggrin:
I thought about that, but board rules and all that. Still, however incompetent a legislative body may be, they are still generally preferable to anarchy or martial law, and right now Soul Society seems to be a mix of the two.

Trixie
2012-01-13, 02:12 PM
I think there's one for where the Dragon replaces the Big Bad, but Aizen killed the most likely candidate.

Isn't it more of a case of Did Not Found The Body? :smallconfused:

Fiery Diamond
2012-01-13, 02:53 PM
Also, did Riruka just commit suicide? Or did she just leave?

I couldn't figure it out either.


Isn't it more of a case of Did Not Find The Body? :smallconfused:

Fixed that for you, and no, I thought it was pretty clear that Gin was dead.

Drolyt
2012-01-13, 03:35 PM
Fixed that for you, and no, I thought it was pretty clear that Gin was dead.
I don't think it was clear at all, if I recall we had a minor debate over the issue.

VanBuren
2012-01-13, 04:17 PM
I don't think it was clear at all, if I recall we had a minor debate over the issue.

The anime made it far more explicit.

Cue "anime is not canon" in 3... 2... 1...

thubby
2012-01-13, 04:40 PM
the fact that he internally recognized his own end proves it well enough for me.

Drolyt
2012-01-13, 04:56 PM
The anime made it far more explicit.

Cue "anime is not canon" in 3... 2... 1...
It isn't, but at this point I think it is clear that Kubo meant for Gin to die. The fact that it wasn't immediately obvious was simply a result of poor dialog choice. Also the fact that it would have been more interesting if he lived.

Psyren
2012-01-13, 05:39 PM
The anime made it far more explicit.

Cue "anime is not canon" in 3... 2... 1...

Nah, in Bleach it is (at least when covering canon material.) I think most if not everyone has realized that since Ashido and Harribel.

Arakune
2012-01-13, 05:57 PM
Ashido?

And it's not uncommon for authors to homage the anime from time to time. One example is Bardak that appeared on the Bardak special before the cameo on the manga.

VanBuren
2012-01-13, 06:18 PM
Nah, in Bleach it is (at least when covering canon material.) I think most if not everyone has realized that since Ashido and Harribel.

True. Just another reason why I more or less consider the anime to be the real thing, and the manga to just be the rough draft.

Mostly.

The Troubadour
2012-01-13, 06:34 PM
He killed all of the likely candidates. Except for Tousen.

Grimmjow should still be alive.

thubby
2012-01-13, 06:36 PM
Ashido?

And it's not uncommon for authors to homage the anime from time to time. One example is Bardak that appeared on the Bardak special before the cameo on the manga.

i thought he was actually really well done.

Drolyt
2012-01-13, 06:37 PM
Ashido?

And it's not uncommon for authors to homage the anime from time to time. One example is Bardak that appeared on the Bardak special before the cameo on the manga.
I've always considered the TV specials (Bardock the Father of Goku and the one about what happens to Future Trunks when he goes home) to be canon anyways, with the homage being Toriyama's acknowledgement of that.

Arakune
2012-01-13, 07:24 PM
It's canon for the anime so long the author don't give say it is, and the extra merchandise producers can make whatever they want if they simply ask for the company producing the anime instead of the author.

On those things, the authors kind of get the raw deal creatively speaking, but they are happy enough to gain some extra cash with the licensing.

Psyren
2012-01-17, 12:42 PM
Ashido?

This guy (http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Ashido_Kan%C5%8D)

He appeared in the anime only, and Kubo said in an interview that he had wanted him to be in the manga too, but they cut the forest of menos bit for deadline constraints.



On those things, the authors kind of get the raw deal creatively speaking, but they are happy enough to gain some extra cash with the licensing.

I was always under the impression though that Kubo's relationship with the anime studio was pretty amicable. After all, he does take the time to design characters for their filler, including all the zanpakuto spirits.

At the very least, he seems to be okay with whatever they do so long as they can stagger out each season, giving him more time to not draw backgrounds :smalltongue:

Anteros
2012-01-17, 01:16 PM
I am busily laughing my ass off at Ukitake and Kyoraku being so nostalgic about how Ichiho's grown up when they weren't looking, considering that Ukitake met him once (in order to give him a bugged badge) and Kyoraku has never actually had a conversation with him.

Further amused by the apparent massive reform Soul Society has undergone in reaction to an abnormally-powerful teenager breaking and entering, and then beating up the Big Bad. I mean, sure, they still employ Mayuri, they still have a secret police, the Central 42 is still in charge, and we've heard nothing more about the hellish, ghettoized lower districts, but the Commander didn't order the murder of a former ally once they looked like they might be in trouble! That's progress!

God, this manga has fallen so far from its promising beginnings. I'm going to spend my weekend re-reading Lucifer & Biscuit Hammer. Now that's quality storytelling; and he only needed 65 chapters to do it, too.

Sometimes things happen off screen.

Friv
2012-01-17, 01:22 PM
Sometimes things happen off screen.

But the key complaint had no time to happen. Ichigo spent almost no time in Soul Society during the periods when he could have been interacting with those two, and specifically hasn't seen any of them since he lost his powers.

*EDIT* Although I guess they could have been spying on him non-stop...

Drolyt
2012-01-17, 01:23 PM
Sometimes things happen off screen.
Such a convenient excuse for poor storytelling.

Fiery Diamond
2012-01-17, 04:35 PM
Such a convenient excuse for poor storytelling.

Better than an inconvenient excuse! :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, I think Kubo has forgotten that while we the readers have had tons of exposure to those characters, Ichigo hasn't. Sort of like how he had trouble distinguishing between character experience and audience experience when he let Aizen's hypnosis work on the audience. He seems to have trouble separating the two.

As a side note, this would make him a terrible role player, because he wouldn't be able to divorce in-character knowledge from out-of-character knowledge.

thubby
2012-01-17, 04:38 PM
ukitake has been spying on ichigo this entire time. he should definitely be able to comment on ichigo's growth.

Arakune
2012-01-17, 11:28 PM
Or not. He just gave the bugged badge, but who says it isn't Mayuri who got the transmission first and then it was transferred to first division or something?

thubby
2012-01-18, 12:39 AM
Or not. He just gave the bugged badge, but who says it isn't Mayuri who got the transmission first and then it was transferred to first division or something?

that would require more inter-division cooperation than we've seen. it would also require ukitake to willingly put ichigo under the watch of that madman

Arakune
2012-01-18, 08:26 AM
No. All it requires is Old Man Genocide to order him for that. Not every division have all the necessary tech for everything they might use.

Psyren
2012-01-18, 10:40 AM
But I too don't understand how they can say Ichigo "grew up." What are they basing that on? He's the same character now as the one that beat Byakuya, when he got the badge to begin with; putting his life on the line for his friends and innocent souls, willing to butt heads with authority in the name of justice. Even his biggest inner conflict - i.e. refusing to let his hollow take control - was a battle that happened before he gained the badge.

I think they're meant to look like affectionate and wise parents, but they just come across as sanctimonious and stuffy.

Drolyt
2012-01-18, 03:34 PM
I think they're meant to look like affectionate and wise parents, but they just come across as sanctimonious and stuffy.
More like senile. They certainly mean well, but considering the extremely limited interaction they've had with Ichigo, it just doesn't make sense. Kubo, while gifted in some areas, seems to have a very poor grasp of cause and effect which has unraveled most of the recent plotlines.

DiscipleofBob
2012-01-18, 03:48 PM
About the growth comment...

Is it possible that Ukitake and Shunsui in particular might have known Ichigo for longer? We still don't know what Isshin's role in Soul Society was. It's entirely possible that Ukitake and Shunsui have known Isshin and therefore Ichigo since the latter was a child, without Ichigo ever being aware of them.

Turalisj
2012-01-18, 06:26 PM
About the growth comment...

Is it possible that Ukitake and Shunsui in particular might have known Ichigo for longer? We still don't know what Isshin's role in Soul Society was. It's entirely possible that Ukitake and Shunsui have known Isshin and therefore Ichigo since the latter was a child, without Ichigo ever being aware of them.

Maybe they are his uncles? :smalltongue:

It certainly fits.....

Psyren
2012-01-18, 07:32 PM
More like senile.

Yeah, that is more accurate :smalltongue:


About the growth comment...

Is it possible that Ukitake and Shunsui in particular might have known Ichigo for longer? We still don't know what Isshin's role in Soul Society was. It's entirely possible that Ukitake and Shunsui have known Isshin and therefore Ichigo since the latter was a child, without Ichigo ever being aware of them.

If that's the case, then this is supremely bad writing. We're given no reason to think either of them knew who Ichigo was before he stormed their castle gates, so to speak.

Fiery Diamond
2012-01-18, 08:09 PM
Yeah, that is more accurate :smalltongue:



If that's the case, then this is supremely bad writing. We're given no reason to think either of them knew who Ichigo was before he stormed their castle gates, so to speak.

Well, Kubo has kind of been making it up as he's been going along. I don't know whether he even intended Isshin to be someone special at the time when the Soul Society Rescue Arc started.

Closet_Skeleton
2012-01-18, 09:46 PM
Well, Kubo has kind of been making it up as he's been going along. I don't know whether he even intended Isshin to be someone special at the time when the Soul Society Rescue Arc started.

Kubo made a lot of stuff up, but he does seem to have worked some previously planned stuff back into his created on the go plot. For example Arrancar's appear just after the Grand Fisher story line, Shinji appearing on the first volume cover and Ishin does mention knowing some guy at the hospital in one of the early chapters.

Psyren
2012-01-18, 10:36 PM
Well, Kubo has kind of been making it up as he's been going along. I don't know whether he even intended Isshin to be someone special at the time when the Soul Society Rescue Arc started.

He's the father of the main character. In shonen.

He might as well have worn a sign.

Drolyt
2012-01-19, 01:27 AM
He's the father of the main character. In shonen.

He might as well have worn a sign.
Not all fathers of shonen protagonists turn out to be plot relevant. I'm pretty sure Yusuke's father was never even mentioned, although YYH is known for defying the genre's conventions. Still, you have a point.

Fri
2012-01-19, 03:27 AM
What do you mean? Isn't yusuke's father turned out to be one of the strongest demon ever?

Turalisj
2012-01-19, 09:26 AM
That was his great-great-great-grandfather, not his father.

Arakune
2012-01-19, 09:54 AM
That was his great-great-great-grandfather, not his father.

It still counted as his father, according to some strange demon/author terminology.

Morph Bark
2012-01-19, 10:19 AM
It still counted as his father, according to some strange demon/author terminology.

His father was his own grandpa?!

darksolitaire
2012-01-19, 01:00 PM
Am I the only one that spotted Rose as a captain in addition to Shinji and Kensei?

And also, Bleach is supposed to be on three weak break apparently.

Fiery Diamond
2012-01-19, 05:20 PM
Am I the only one that spotted Rose as a captain in addition to Shinji and Kensei?

And also, Bleach is supposed to be on three weak break apparently.

Yeah, the break is pretty weak. I'd rather he not do that. :smalltongue:

Anyway, yeah, it's on a three week break, which is irritating. Hopefully we'll jump right into the next arc when it comes back.

Arakune
2012-01-20, 06:27 PM
His father was his own grandpa?!

Demons, don't think too much about it.

Frozen_Feet
2012-01-20, 06:32 PM
I think I've tried to recruit people for earlier Bleach games in this thread with marginal success, but I figure it's still worth a shot. If you'd be up for some freeform roleplay in ancient history of Soul Society and feel you're a better storyteller than Kubo, please come to this thread and share your ideas! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12567726#post12567726)

Drolyt
2012-01-20, 07:37 PM
I think I've tried to recruit people for earlier Bleach games in this thread with marginal success, but I figure it's still worth a shot. If you'd be up for some freeform roleplay in ancient history of Soul Society and feel you're a better storyteller than Kubo, please come to this thread and share your ideas! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12567726#post12567726)
Sorry, I'm not a fan of freeform. I'm not sure how much crossover there is between freeform roleplayers and bleach fans on this forum, but I'm guessing not much. A surprising number of people here don't even play D&D. I've similarly had zero luck getting anyone to play HERO, which I maintain would be perfect for a Bleach game.

Dante & Vergil
2012-01-20, 07:44 PM
Sorry, I'm not a fan of freeform. I'm not sure how much crossover there is between freeform roleplayers and bleach fans on this forum, but I'm guessing not much. A surprising number of people here don't even play D&D. I've similarly had zero luck getting anyone to play HERO, which I maintain would be perfect for a Bleach game.

Really? How so? I ask only because I'm not familiar with the system, and am still finding a good Bleach system.

Psyren
2012-01-20, 08:49 PM
Couldn't M&M or Exalted do anime well? They seem to have the necessarily high power ceiling to model the craziness well.

Drolyt
2012-01-20, 08:57 PM
Really? How so? I ask only because I'm not familiar with the system, and am still finding a good Bleach system.
It is a point based system, kind of like GURPS, if you know that system, but in my honest opinion far better suited to games with super powers and far more versatile for that purpose; it was originally designed to play comic book super heroes. If you happen to be familiar with the GURPS powers book it is kind of like that, but more so; everything in HERO is built from the ground up using the point system, which initially makes it perhaps the most complicated system I know of but after you get used to it it is actually pretty simple since you can create pretty much any kind of character with just the core rules instead of the mountains of splatbooks you need for, say, GURPS or D&D (a few of the splats are useful though, depending on what genre you want to play as). The combat system itself isn't my favorite in the world, though it is less complicated than GURPS. I also don't think it works very well for really high leveled games, like the later part of DBZ or some comic book characters, but I know of no RPG that does. Balance is also difficult, such that the GM has to keep a tight reign on character creation. Depending on who you ask some other things might be noted as problems, but overall I think it is a good system. It would model Bleach fairly easily.

All that said, it doesn't seem very popular, and I know of no pbp or chat games of it so I haven't played it much.

Couldn't M&M or Exalted do anime well? They seem to have the necessarily high power ceiling to model the craziness well.
M&M could, I'm not familiar with Exalted. I think HERO would be better than M&M though. BESM would also work, it was designed for anime but it has been out of print for a while now.

Prime32
2012-01-20, 08:59 PM
Sorry, I'm not a fan of freeform. I'm not sure how much crossover there is between freeform roleplayers and bleach fans on this forum, but I'm guessing not much....there was a freeform Bleach game here with dozens of players that lasted years.

I'd recommend M&M over BESM in any case.

Drolyt
2012-01-20, 09:00 PM
...there was a freeform Bleach game here with dozens of players that lasted years.
Really? Shows how much I know (when it comes to fandom, not much).

thubby
2012-01-20, 09:27 PM
the problem with this break is that the arc just ended. which means even after the break, nothing of consequence is going to happen for 3 weeks after that.

Drolyt
2012-01-20, 09:29 PM
the problem with this break is that the arc just ended. which means even after het break, nothing of consequence is going to happen for 3 weeks after that.
Maybe. I'll give Kubo the benefit of the doubt and say he might kick off the arc with a bang. It isn't unheard of.

Tavar
2012-01-20, 09:39 PM
Exalted...well, yeah, it could work. But it's hardly the best system for it. I'd say Hero system would do a good job, and M&M might as well(never played the latter).

Turalisj
2012-01-20, 11:18 PM
MnM2e or 3e would work for Bleach, it works for just about anything. Bankai and Shikai is simply raising your character to another PL for a short period of time.

Drolyt
2012-01-20, 11:50 PM
MnM2e or 3e would work for Bleach, it works for just about anything. Bankai and Shikai is simply raising your character to another PL for a short period of time.
I don't remember, PL is like a cap on your abilities right? In HERO you can model Shikai/Bankai/Hollow Mask/Resurreccion/etc. by building the appropriate powers and applying some limitations, such as Focus (you need your Zanpakuto), Duration (you can only use it for so long), Endurance (it tires you), possibly others. For anyone unfamiliar with HERO limitations are modifiers that make a power weaker in some way but also make it cost less character points.

Alternatively, they could be applications of the Aid power with the Self-Only limitation (Aid is a power that increases your stats) along with some powers that are linked to the Aid (that is, can only be used when the Aid is active).

Fiery Diamond
2012-01-21, 12:59 PM
I don't remember, PL is like a cap on your abilities right? In HERO you can model Shikai/Bankai/Hollow Mask/Resurreccion/etc. by building the appropriate powers and applying some limitations, such as Focus (you need your Zanpakuto), Duration (you can only use it for so long), Endurance (it tires you), possibly others. For anyone unfamiliar with HERO limitations are modifiers that make a power weaker in some way but also make it cost less character points.

Alternatively, they could be applications of the Aid power with the Self-Only limitation (Aid is a power that increases your stats) along with some powers that are linked to the Aid (that is, can only be used when the Aid is active).

This HERO system sounds quite interesting. How might one go about finding the rules?

Drolyt
2012-01-21, 03:41 PM
This HERO system sounds quite interesting. How might one go about finding the rules?
You mean purchase? The latest edition is 6th, and can be found here (http://www.herogames.com/home.htm); unfortunately I don't think there is a free "preview" of the rules as with GURPS Lite. If you are referring to less than legal means, we can't discuss that here, but it wouldn't be that hard to find.

Tavar
2012-01-21, 03:58 PM
Yeah, hero system would totally work, rather well when it comes down to it. At least, the edition I have would. Not sure how much they've changed, but I have...5th, I think? And it would totally work.

Drolyt
2012-01-21, 06:24 PM
Yeah, hero system would totally work, rather well when it comes down to it. At least, the edition I have would. Not sure how much they've changed, but I have...5th, I think? And it would totally work.
5th and 6th are pretty close, from the HERO Games website:

Q: What are the major differences between the 5th Edition and the 6th Edition?
A: The fundamentals of the game - the type of dice used and how they're used, Character Points, the SPD Chart, and so on - haven't changed. The two "biggest" changes in most gamers' eyes are (a) the elimination of the "hex" (everything's just measured in meters now, making the game easier to learn and play), and (b) the "decoupling" of Figured Characteristics (PD, ED, SPD, and the like all still exist, but they don't derive from the "Primary" Characteristics at all). But beyond that there are lots of minor tweaks to costs and values, changes to several Powers, new Powers and Power Modifiers, and so on.
Both could be used for Bleach. In fact, if anyone wants to start a forum game I'd be willing to play.

Drolyt
2012-01-31, 08:38 PM
I decided to stat out Ichigo in HERO System 6th Edition just to see how it would work, and then I decided to post the results here. Note that I stated him as he was before Final Getsuga. By and large the only difficult thing was Bankai/Hollowfication. There are many ways to simulate those, so for Bankai I settled on a variant of Only in Alternate Identity while for Hollowfication I chose to use Multiform (explanation in a bit). Without further ado, HERO System Ichigo:

Ichigo Kurosaki


VAL CHA Cost Roll Notes
20 STR 10 13- HTH Damage 4d6 END [2]
18 DEX 16 13-
18 CON 8 13-
13 INT 3 12- PER Roll 12-
13 EGO 3 12-
10 PRE 0 11- PRE Attack: 2d6
7 OCV 20
7 DCV 20
3 OMCV 0
3 DMCV 0
4 SPD 20 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12/2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12
7 PD 5 7/22 PD (0/15 rPD)
7 ED 5 7/22 ED (0/15 rED)
12 REC 8
60 END 8
20 BODY 10
50 STUN 15

Movement Cost Meters Notes
RUNNING 0 12m/24m END [1]
SWIMMING 0 4m/8m END [1]
LEAPING 0 4m 4m forward, 2m upward


TELEPORTATION 24m/48m


Characteristics Total: 151

Cost Powers
45 Reiatsu: Resistant Protection (15 PD/15 ED) - END=0
11 Detect Reiryoku: Detect A Class Of Things 17- (Unusual Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Range, MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1) (40 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (0 DCV; -1) - END=0
19 Shunpo: Teleportation 24m (24 Active Points); Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4) - END=2
29 Zangetsu: Multipower, 59-point reserve, (59 Active Points); all slots OAF (-1) - END=
1f 1) Zangetsu: (Total: 30 Active Cost, 14 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6 (2d6+1 w/STR) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1) (Real Cost: 7) plus Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6 (2d6+1 w/STR) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Bankai (-1/4) (Real Cost: 7) - END=2
3f 2) Getsuga Tensho: (Total: 59 Active Cost, 29 Real Cost) Blast 7d6, Area Of Effect No Range (32m Line; Crescent Blast; +1/4) (44 Active Points); OAF (-1) (Real Cost: 22) plus Blast 2d6+1, Area Of Effect No Range (32m Line; Crescent Blast; +1/4) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Bankai (-1/4) (Real Cost: 7) - END=5
18 Tensa Zangetsu: +4 SPD (40 Active Points); OAF (-1), Bankai (-1/4) - END=
80 Hollowfication: Multiform (400 Character Points in the most expensive form), Reversion (+0) - END=0

Powers Total: 206

Cost Martial Arts
4 Martial Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort
4 Martial Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort
4 Martial Strike: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, Weapon +2 DC Strike
1 Weapon Element: Blades, Empty Hand

Martial Arts Total: 13

Cost Skills
30 +6 with Martial Arts

Skills Total: 30



Value Complications
15 Dependent NPC: Rukia Very Frequently (Slightly Less Powerful than the PC)
15 Dependent NPC: Orihime Very Frequently, Slightly Less Powerful than the PC
15 Dependent NPC: Nel Tu Very Frequently, Slightly Less Powerful than the PC
5 Accidental Change: Using Bankai or Hollowification 8-, Very Common, 1 Turn between rolls
10 Distinctive Features: Orange Hair Concealable, Noticed and Recognizable, Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses
15 Psychological Complication: Code of Honor (goes out of his way to fight fairly, seeks karmic punishment for his foes, helps those in need) Very Common, Moderate

Complications Points: 75

Base Points: 400
Experience: 0
Experience Unspent: 0
Total Character Cost: 400
Now for some design notes and an explanation of what all this means:
Characters in Hero are built on Character Points, which you use to purchase everything from strength to computer hacking skills to magical powers. I chose to build Ichigo is built on 400 points, which is the standard for a Super Hero game. There are 5 categories of abilities you can buy with points, Characteristics, Skills, Perks, Talents, and Powers. Characteristics are base stats everyone has but to different degrees, like Strength or Dexterity. They are roughly equivalent to D&D Ability Scores, but include a few more things. Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, and Intelligence are very similar to the D&D Abilities of the same name, while Ego and Presence are close to Wisdom and Charisma Respectively. OCV and DVC stand for Offensive Combat Value and Defensive Combat Value, and are how good you are at hitting/defending against attacks, essentially Base Attack Bonus and Armor Class. OMCV and DMCV are the psychic versions of OCV and DCV and irrelevant to Ichigo. To understand Speed you need to understand the Turn and Phase system. A Phase is very similar to a D&D Turn, in a Phase you can take either one Full Phase Action or Two Half Phase Actions as well as any number of Zero Phase Actions. The big difference is that there are 12 phases in a 12 second turn, and your speed determines how many phases you can act in. You start with a speed of two, which gives you two six second phases just like D&D, and especially in low powered games many GMs will just limit you to that, but with higher speed you can act more often, which simulates well many high powered Super Powered and Magical characters. PD and ED are Physical Defense and Energy Defense, and subtract damage from attacks of the appropriate nature, kind of like Damage Reduction, except more of a necessity. End or Endurance is your ability to keep acting, most actions reduce your Endurance and you can't act if you don't have any. Because it adds bookkeeping some GMs eliminate it. Recovery is how fast your END and Stun Recover. There are two types of damage in HERO, Stun and Body. Most attacks do some of both, more Stun than Body. When you lose all your Stun you are unconscious, all your Body and you die. Finally, Running, Swimming, and Leaping is how fast you can move in a phase; confusingly to new players they are less important than Speed in determining how fast you move in an absolute sense.

Skills are just that, skills that a normal person can have but require training. I couldn't actually think of any skills Ichigo has except Martial Arts, so I gave him 3 Martial Maneuvers: Block, Dodge, and Strike, which as the names suggest make him better at doing those 3 things. Normally Martial Arts works with Unarmed Combat unless you specifically practice a weapon based Martial Art like Escrima or Kenjutsu, so I bought Weapon Element: Blades to let Ichigo use his abilities both Unarmed and with Zangetsu. I also gave him Combat Skill Levels, which can be assigned on the fly to increase OCV, DCV, or Damage, but only when using those Martial Maneuvers (there are different ways to buy CSLs, including letting them be used with all attacks).

Perks are exactly what they sound like, benefits unrelated to the abilities of the character, such as their position in an organization, useful contacts, followers, licenses for restricted items, etc. I can't think of anything for Ichigo except for Shinigami Representative, but I don't see that as being worth points since I don't see how it benefits Ichigo.

Talents are like D&D feats, they are abilities that are beyond the ordinary, and thus not Skills, but realistic and not supernatural, and thus not Powers. Examples include Ambidexterity, Eidetic Memory, and Combat Sense (ability to fight in the dark). I didn't give Ichigo any of these either.

Powers are the heart of HERO System. They are a very versatile way to build any number of abilities using the point system. Typically Powers represent supernatural abilities, such as Super Powers, Magic, or Psychic Powers, but they can be used to represent mundane abilities if you so choose. This is where I built Ichigo's Shinigami powers. Reiatsu represents his resistance to attacks using the Resistant Protection Power, which gives protection against lethal attacks (non-resistant protection, such as that bought as a characteristic, only defends against non-lethal damage). Detect Reiryoku is his ability to detect other spiritual beings, how it's built isn't terribly important. Shunpo is built as a form of Teleportation, with the limitation that you still technically move through the intervening space, so for example you couldn't use it to move through a wall or to escape a grapple. Note that Teleportation works just like regular movement in HERO unless you change that, so you can easily use Shunpo and attack in the same turn. Zangetsu and Getsuga Tensho are just attacks. Note that they are both "Partially Limited". That is, most of their effect is always available, but their full power is only usable in Bankai. For Bankai I just applied the Only Usable in Alternate Identity Limitation and renamed it Bankai. This Limitation means that the power can only be used in certain conditions which take at least a Full Phase to activate. As the name implies it is often used for Super Heroes who can only use their abilities in their Alternate Identity, but it also works well to represent Shikai/Bankai. I should also mention OAF, this is short for "Obvious Accessible Focus" which meas that the power is reliant upon an item that can be taken away. Ichigo's Speed also doubles when using Bankai. Finally Multiform is used to represent Hollowfication. A separate character sheet has his Hollow Stats, which appear below:
Ichigo Kurosaki


VAL CHA Cost Roll Notes
20 STR 10 13- HTH Damage 4d6 END [2]
18 DEX 16 13-
18 CON 8 13-
13 INT 3 12- PER Roll 12-
13 EGO 3 12-
10 PRE 0 11- PRE Attack: 2d6
7 OCV 20
7 DCV 20
3 OMCV 0
3 DMCV 0
6 SPD 40 Phases: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12/2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
7 PD 5 7/25 PD (0/18 rPD)
7 ED 5 7/25 ED (0/18 rED)
24 REC 20
100 END 16
30 BODY 20
60 STUN 20

Movement Cost Meters Notes
RUNNING 0 12m/24m END [1]
SWIMMING 0 4m/8m END [1]
LEAPING 0 4m 4m forward, 2m upward


TELEPORTATION 36m/72m


Characteristics Total: 206

Cost Powers
54 Reiatsu: Resistant Protection (18 PD/18 ED) - END=0
11 Detect Reiryoku: Detect A Class Of Things 17- (Unusual Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Range, MegaScale (1m = 1 km; +1) (40 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (0 DCV; -1) - END=0
29 Sonido: Teleportation 36m (36 Active Points); Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4) - END=4
34 Zangetsu: Multipower, 69-point reserve, (69 Active Points); all slots OAF (-1) - END=
2f 1) Zangetsu: (Total: 40 Active Cost, 19 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1 1/2d6 (3d6 w/STR) (25 Active Points); OAF (-1) (Real Cost: 12) plus Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6 (2d6+1 w/STR) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Bankai (-1/4) (Real Cost: 7) - END=3
3f 2) Getsuga Tensho: (Total: 69 Active Cost, 34 Real Cost) Blast 8 1/2d6, Area Of Effect No Range (32m Line; Crescent Blast; +1/4) (54 Active Points); OAF (-1) (Real Cost: 27) plus Blast 2d6+1, Area Of Effect No Range (32m Line; Crescent Blast; +1/4) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1), Bankai (-1/4) (Real Cost: 7) - END=6
18 Tensa Zangetsu: +4 SPD (40 Active Points); OAF (-1), Bankai (-1/4) - END=

Powers Total: 151

Cost Martial Arts
4 Martial Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort
4 Martial Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort
4 Martial Strike: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, Weapon +2 DC Strike
1 Weapon Element: Blades, Empty Hand

Martial Arts Total: 13

Cost Skills
30 +6 with Martial Arts

Skills Total: 30



Value Complications
15 Dependent NPC: Rukia Very Frequently (Slightly Less Powerful than the PC)
15 Dependent NPC: Orihime Very Frequently, Slightly Less Powerful than the PC
15 Dependent NPC: Nel Tu Very Frequently, Slightly Less Powerful than the PC
5 Accidental Change: Using Bankai or Hollowification 8-, Very Common, 1 Turn between rolls
10 Distinctive Features: Orange Hair Concealable, Noticed and Recognizable, Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses
15 Psychological Complication: Code of Honor (goes out of his way to fight fairly, seeks karmic punishment for his foes, helps those in need) Very Common, Moderate

Complications Points: 75

Base Points: 400
Experience: 0
Experience Unspent: 0
Total Character Cost: 400
The only difference is some improved abilities.

Finally there are Complications. In HERO every character is required to have some Complications that weaken their character or else they get less Character Points. A 400 point character typically needs 75 points worth of Complications. This serves several purposes, including creating adventure hooks, making characters more well rounded, and generally making the game more interesting. Unfortunately these are hard to do for Ichigo. I gave him a Psychological Complication to represent his Chronic Hero Syndrome, a few Dependent NPCs, that is characters they have to go around rescuing, a small chance for Hollow Ichigo to take over when he uses Bankai or Hollowfication, and Distinctive Features for his orange hair, which nobody else in the Bleachverse has. It isn't perfect, I could probably have got more mileage out of Psychological Complications, but I never intended to put that much work into this.


Alright, there it is. It isn't perfect, but it was a quick and dirty conversion. Generally conversions are harder than making your own character anyways. Hope somebody found that interesting :smallsmile:.

Tavar
2012-01-31, 09:47 PM
I did. It really makes me want to run a Hero game in the Bleach verse, though there are just so many questions to answer before I could really do it.

Drolyt
2012-01-31, 10:07 PM
I did. It really makes me want to run a Hero game in the Bleach verse, though there are just so many questions to answer before I could really do it.
What kind of questions do you have? I'll help if I can.

Tavar
2012-02-01, 01:53 AM
Less with regards to how to do stuff with the rules(though those may pop up as well), but with issues deciding what the plot should be, when it's taking place. Who from the Series is going to be active, and who isn't.

Drolyt
2012-02-01, 02:12 AM
Less with regards to how to do stuff with the rules(though those may pop up as well), but with issues deciding what the plot should be, when it's taking place. Who from the Series is going to be active, and who isn't.
If it were me, I'd go with a parallel universe with completely new characters but largely the same setting. Otherwise you'd have to deal with the PCs knowing things they should't, not to mention it is easier to devise your own plot than to decide how to diverge from the main one. You could have expies or parallel universe versions of characters if you wanted.

Alternatively, set it in the distant past. You'd still have a couple of the older characters and some ancestors of some of the characters but you'd have much more freedom. Also I think Feudal Japan would be more fun than Modern Japan if you did a lot of real world adventuring, unless you went for an Urban Fantasy style I guess. If you wanted to deviate from the source material you could include additional supernatural beings like Kitsune, Neko-mata, and Oni.

Frozen_Feet
2012-02-01, 07:33 AM
For examples, you can look at this game (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230413) I started, or the older freeform Bleach games in these boards. It's bound to give you some ideas. :smallsmile:

EDIT: Also, Nekomata, Kitsune and Oni don't need deviations from canon creatures, as all of them can be Shinigami or Hollows themed after such mythological creatures.

Dante & Vergil
2012-02-02, 05:38 AM
Apparently, Shonen Jump has had small snippets and interviews with Kubo for material throughout the 3 week hiatus, about the state of things as they are now in the story, and hints on what the next arc is going to be like and hints to what it will contain. I wont go into specifics, but you can read up on it here (http://bleachasylum.com/threads/19747-Gotei-13-Omakes-for-the-3-week-break). As of this post, only weeks 1 and 2 have been printed, but week 3 will probably be out within the next day or two.

thubby
2012-02-02, 06:00 AM
the entire affair makes me want to hurt him. :smallannoyed:

setting aside that arrancar as allies makes no sense (except for nel). his attitude annoys me to no end.

Dante & Vergil
2012-02-02, 06:42 AM
the entire affair makes me want to hurt him. :smallannoyed:

setting aside that arrancar as allies makes no sense (except for nel). his attitude annoys me to no end.

Well, he did only say the likelyhood of certain arrancars reapearing still doesn't make it certain, and Nel is the only one he really dwelled on that fact, though Grimmjow is also a candidate, so hopefully he doesn't troll this time.:smallwink:

DiscipleofBob
2012-02-02, 09:11 AM
Things I like about the interview:

Apparently, Unohana will actually fight with her zanpakuto at some point.

Renji's bankai has changed in some way.

Shunsui will finally go bankai.

Based on the interview, I think that Stark, Harribel, Nel, Nnoitra, Grimmjow, and Zommari are somehow alive. Stark, Nnoitra, and Zommari are stated as "extremely unlikely" to reappear, not just given a blank where the other arrancar are dead. Harribel is an "unlikely" and Nel and Grimmjow are "very likely."

Things I don't like:

Apparently the last arc was supposed to be about Chad.

... what?

Socratov
2012-02-02, 09:49 AM
snip

Apparently the last arc was supposed to be about Chad.

... what?

o... k...

Weel for one thing, he did explain how Chad's (and Orihime's) powers work, but htis looks almost liek tharc Chad starred in least...

KnightDisciple
2012-02-02, 09:49 AM
Apparently, Unohana will actually fight with her zanpakuto at some point.And she will "unravel her braid". :elan:
...What? A bloke can't think she's a mite attractive?



Shunsui will finally go bankai.
Hahahahahayes!

Sorry, he's one of my favorite characters. :smallbiggrin:

thubby
2012-02-02, 10:07 AM
Things I don't like:

Apparently the last arc was supposed to be about Chad.

... what?

well it sort of was. he figured out the source of his power (though how his skin has a different soul from the rest of him...), the whole arc is dependent on him making the connection with the fullbringers, etc.

shunsui's bankai (im sucha LoL addict i wrote ult the first time around :smallredface:) is some reality warping thing im sure.
ukitake's is the one i want to see.
that and yamamoto

VanBuren
2012-02-02, 05:27 PM
Things I like about the interview:

Apparently, Unohana will actually fight with her zanpakuto at some point.

Renji's bankai has changed in some way.

Shunsui will finally go bankai.

Based on the interview, I think that Stark, Harribel, Nel, Nnoitra, Grimmjow, and Zommari are somehow alive. Stark, Nnoitra, and Zommari are stated as "extremely unlikely" to reappear, not just given a blank where the other arrancar are dead. Harribel is an "unlikely" and Nel and Grimmjow are "very likely."

Things I don't like:

Apparently the last arc was supposed to be about Chad.

... what?

I think those were just guesses from the editor.

Mando Knight
2012-02-03, 02:06 AM
Based on the interview, I think that Stark, Harribel, Nel, Nnoitra, Grimmjow, and Zommari are somehow alive. Stark, Nnoitra, and Zommari are stated as "extremely unlikely" to reappear, not just given a blank where the other arrancar are dead. Harribel is an "unlikely" and Nel and Grimmjow are "very likely."
Nel wasn't put in a "no way she could survive that" situation in her last appearance AFAIK, and Grimmjow is too much fangirlbait to stay down.

And she will "unravel her braid". :elan:
...What? A bloke can't think she's a mite attractive?
I like her braid...

Tavar
2012-02-03, 08:40 AM
Couldn't some of them re-appear in Hell or something? Like those other 2 did.

Calemyr
2012-02-03, 08:50 AM
I'm one of those losers who doesn't read the manga but rather enjoys the anime when convenient. What I'd like to know from you manga readers is this: Which Ichigo has come back? Is it the determined one who doesn't care about the odds? Or is it the godly powerful one who is paralyzed by fear and doubt? The first one is the guy that made this story interesting, and for years now I've only really seen him in the filler arcs the anime adds.

If he's back to his original "I want to win!" self, then this whole death-and-return-of-super-Ichigo thing might just be worth it.

Psyren
2012-02-03, 11:13 AM
I'm one of those losers who doesn't read the manga but rather enjoys the anime when convenient. What I'd like to know from you manga readers is this: Which Ichigo has come back? Is it the determined one who doesn't care about the odds? Or is it the godly powerful one who is paralyzed by fear and doubt? The first one is the guy that made this story interesting, and for years now I've only really seen him in the filler arcs the anime adds.

If he's back to his original "I want to win!" self, then this whole death-and-return-of-super-Ichigo thing might just be worth it.

Judging from his curbstomp battle with Kuugo, I'd say "determined and godly powerful." Pretty much exactly as he was right after learning Mugetsu. He definitely didn't break a sweat, and the captains were so assured of his victory they didn't even hang around to watch.

Frozen_Feet
2012-02-03, 11:48 AM
Yeah, now that Ichigo has his sword back he's regained the balls he lost with his powers. :smalltongue:

SlyGuyMcFly
2012-02-03, 11:51 AM
Yeah, now that Ichigo has his sword back he's regained the balls he lost with his powers. :smalltongue:

Well put. :smallbiggrin:

Turalisj
2012-02-03, 02:38 PM
Yeah, now that Ichigo has his sword back he's regained the balls he lost with his powers. :smalltongue:

Some would say he never had any in the first place.

I'm putting my bet right now that Ichigo's mom was related in some way to one of the captains.

DiscipleofBob
2012-02-03, 03:07 PM
Some would say he never had any in the first place.

I'm putting my bet right now that Ichigo's mom was related in some way to one of the captains.

See, now all I can think of is Shunsui as a pervy uncle, Ukitake as the uncle who gives you way too many christmas presents and remembers all your birthdays, Unohana as the aunt who always brings the good homemade stuff to Thanksgiving, and Yamamoto as the grandfather who will glare at you very hard if you don't start using a coaster this very minute young man.

Fredaintdead
2012-02-03, 03:22 PM
See, now all I can think of is Shunsui as a pervy uncle, Ukitake as the uncle who gives you way too many christmas presents and remembers all your birthdays, Unohana as the aunt who always brings the good homemade stuff to Thanksgiving, and Yamamoto as the grandfather who will glare at you very hard if you don't start using a coaster this very minute young man.

I want to watch/read this far more than I want to watch/read Bleach. Because that sounds awesome and hilarious. :smallbiggrin:

Psyren
2012-02-03, 03:23 PM
If this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfYhtk7wMKw) is any indication, Ukitake is the pervy uncle.

Frozen_Feet
2012-02-03, 03:45 PM
Yeah, Shunsui is the good-for-nothing alcoholic loser uncle who pretends to be a big playa but drowns his sorrows in beer sake because his wife makes him sleep outside because he drinks too much...

Tavar
2012-02-03, 05:02 PM
So, question time. If I did run a Hero game set in Bleach, how many would be interested?

DiscipleofBob
2012-02-03, 05:14 PM
I'd consider it, though I know nothing about the Hero System, or if the character concept I have in mind would work with it or not.

VanBuren
2012-02-03, 06:54 PM
I'm one of those losers who doesn't read the manga but rather enjoys the anime when convenient. What I'd like to know from you manga readers is this: Which Ichigo has come back? Is it the determined one who doesn't care about the odds? Or is it the godly powerful one who is paralyzed by fear and doubt? The first one is the guy that made this story interesting, and for years now I've only really seen him in the filler arcs the anime adds.

If he's back to his original "I want to win!" self, then this whole death-and-return-of-super-Ichigo thing might just be worth it.

He starts somewhere in between, tilts to the second one, swings back to the first, then swings out to the major extreme of the second one*, then settles back on the major extreme of the first.

*This is actually pretty well justified. But I don't want to spoilerz.

Drolyt
2012-02-03, 10:15 PM
So, question time. If I did run a Hero game set in Bleach, how many would be interested?
I would.

I'd consider it, though I know nothing about the Hero System, or if the character concept I have in mind would work with it or not.
Almost any concept would work, although some powers are harder to build than others, especially if your points are limited.

The way HERO works is you define powers yourself by buying the game mechanics. For example, instead of giving your character a "fireball" spell you would buy a "blast" which is what HERO calls a ranged damage attack (or a ranged killing attack if you want it to be more lethal), give it an area of effect, and simply define it as "fire". "Fire" is the "special effect". After determining the game effects of a power you assign it a special effect (or more than one) such as "fire", "ice", "magic", "psychic", "mutant", "divine", etc. The special effect determines how powers interact (such as a "dispel magic" effect which obviously wouldn't work on non-magic abilities) and can, at the GM's discretion, have minor game effects, such as a "fire" spell setting things on fire.

Morph Bark
2012-02-04, 01:24 PM
Nel wasn't put in a "no way she could survive that" situation in her last appearance AFAIK, and Grimmjow is too much fangirlbait to stay down.

I like her braid...

Ulquiorra is perhaps even moreso and has at times been more popular even than Grimmjow (though Grimmjow has beaten him in that regard more often). If dead arrancar come back, but not Ulquiorra, I'll be sad.

Of course, it would even be worse to me if he came back and there wouldn't even be a hint of character development like what happened right before his death.

Psyren
2012-02-04, 01:33 PM
Is there a point to Ulquiorra without Aizen? The other espada at least had their own aspirations, whether they were motivated by greed, ambition, loneliness etc.; Ulquiorra meanwhile was the only one totally devoted to Aizen's vision, who had no ulterior motives of his own.

Of course, Aizen still being alive means that Ulquiorra could be too.

Tenno Seremel
2012-02-04, 03:21 PM
Is there a point to Ulquiorra without Aizen? The other espada at least had their own aspirations, whether they were motivated by greed, ambition, loneliness etc.; Ulquiorra meanwhile was the only one totally devoted to Aizen's vision, who had no ulterior motives of his own.

Of course, Aizen still being alive means that Ulquiorra could be too.

Bind him to Orihime (her power can justify anything anyway). Some part of the fanbase will be delighted.

Turalisj
2012-02-04, 03:34 PM
Bind him to Orihime (her power can justify anything anyway). Some part of the fanbase will be delighted.

Not... going... to comment.... I'm sure there's a doujin out there that's done this already

Fiery Diamond
2012-02-05, 12:34 AM
Not... going... to comment.... I'm sure there's a doujin out there that's done this already

Give in to your feelings! Let the judgments pour forth!

Fredaintdead
2012-02-05, 06:13 AM
Ulquiorra is perhaps even moreso and has at times been more popular even than Grimmjow (though Grimmjow has beaten him in that regard more often). If dead arrancar come back, but not Ulquiorra, I'll be sad.

Of course, it would even be worse to me if he came back and there wouldn't even be a hint of character development like what happened right before his death.

Didn't... didn't Ulquiorra disintegrate? :smallconfused:
That's usually permanently fatal.

Morph Bark
2012-02-05, 07:41 AM
Didn't... didn't Ulquiorra disintegrate? :smallconfused:
That's usually permanently fatal.

That's why I said "if other dead arrancar return". Besides, considering how in the past it was explained how in Bleach Hollows are purified if killed by a shinigami and are sent to Soul Society, there's the possibility of him now being there. It hasn't been brought up how arrancar differ from Hollows in that regard though.

Besides, considering how Kubo prettymuch stated that he was bringing back Grimmjow largely because of the fans liking him, I don't see why Ulquiorra could not return, especially seeing how Ulquiorra's specialty was regeneration.

Then again, I've learned that with Kubo, you should always expect to be disappointed.


Eh, mostly I just don't want Grimmjow to return. The worst part? I actually could've liked Grimmjow if that type of character didn't pop up in every single Shonen manga/anime.

Turalisj
2012-02-05, 07:54 AM
Didn't... didn't Ulquiorra disintegrate? :smallconfused:
That's usually permanently fatal.

Never found the body. :smalltongue:

Vonotar
2012-02-05, 09:18 AM
All I really wanted from Kubo was for Shunsui and Stark to go grab some sake, but no.

Psyren
2012-02-05, 12:05 PM
Didn't... didn't Ulquiorra disintegrate? :smallconfused:
That's usually permanently fatal.

He's way behind Tsukiko; (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SortingAlgorithmOfDeadness) it's not out of the question.

VanBuren
2012-02-05, 12:48 PM
Besides, considering how Kubo prettymuch stated that he was bringing back Grimmjow largely because of the fans liking him, I don't see why Ulquiorra could not return, especially seeing how Ulquiorra's specialty was regeneration.

Q: Will there be characters that appear in the role of a friend?

Kubo: Ulquiorra has already turned into ash. Grimmjow might become a friend. Also, what about Harribel, who is still alive? But, I wonder how I’d bring them out of Hueco Mundo. I think Harribel would not leave Hueco Mundo.

Turalisj
2012-02-05, 01:38 PM
Grimmjow is likely to be the next Renji >.>

Fiery Diamond
2012-02-05, 01:49 PM
Grimmjow is likely to be the next Renji >.>

I will facepalm so hard that my hand falls off if that happens. But I can still see it happening.

Fredaintdead
2012-02-05, 01:50 PM
Grimmjow is likely to be the next Renji >.>

What? Do you mean that he'll be constantly telling us he's just as strong as everyone else and then proceeding to get his backside kicked?

Oh, you mean the rival/friend of the main protagonist... so clearly he'll be going shopping with Orihime, having sleepovers and doing her hair. :smalltongue:

Psyren
2012-02-05, 04:13 PM
What? Do you mean that he'll be constantly telling us he's just as strong as everyone else and then proceeding to get his backside kicked?

Oh, you mean the rival/friend of the main protagonist... so clearly he'll be going shopping with Orihime, having sleepovers and doing her hair. :smalltongue:

Followed by showing up at school :smallsigh:
Also, expect ho-yay.

Fredaintdead
2012-02-06, 06:13 AM
Followed by showing up at school :smallsigh:
Also, expect ho-yay.

"Stupid Ichigo! It's not like I like you or anything. Geez!"

:smallbiggrin:

Morph Bark
2012-02-06, 07:54 PM
The worst part is is that I can actually see most of that happening at some point. :smalltongue:

Socratov
2012-02-07, 02:56 AM
Now that... would be disturbing...:smalleek:

I'm really hoping he starts with a bang... maybe finally introducing us to those Vasto Lordes (who are supposed to be stronger then any espada)? Could mix in some Aizen freeďng and hell freezing over too :)

Oh, and yeah, more Isshin and Ryuuken, I want to know what happened between them. There seems to be some frenemy action going on between those two...

Teutonic Knight
2012-02-08, 03:13 AM
Anyone read the new chapter? Can the words "FINAL ARC" be taken seriously?

tyckspoon
2012-02-08, 03:23 AM
Anyone read the new chapter? Can the words "FINAL ARC" be taken seriously?

A: Possibly, although this chapter at least doesn't give any real idea what the arc would be *about*

B: Even if it is the final arc, it'll probably take another hundred chapters to get through. Remember how long Deicide was?

Turalisj
2012-02-08, 03:23 AM
Nope. Because Bleach has the smell of being the DBZ of it's time.

tyckspoon
2012-02-08, 03:26 AM
Also, if those are the standard grade of Hollow that Ichigo (and, I suppose, the significant density of spiritually-powerful people in Karakura) is attracting.. what the hell is Soul Society doing sending two raw newb Shinigami to try and cover it?

Turalisj
2012-02-08, 03:29 AM
At least we're finally going to see an Arc with Quincy as a big thing.....

Except they are enemies. :smallannoyed:

Fredaintdead
2012-02-08, 06:04 AM
I'm really hoping he starts with a bang... maybe finally introducing us to those Vasto Lordes (who are supposed to be stronger then any espada)? Could mix in some Aizen freeďng and hell freezing over too :)

Well, Harribel was already a Vasto Lordes before she became an Arrancar. Which means we can estimate that Barragan and Starrk likely were too.
But yeah, seeing what the Vasto Lordes would be good.

Arakune
2012-02-08, 06:32 AM
So... they assign only two shinigamis to the focal point of spiritual activity? Are they stupider than we thought?

thubby
2012-02-08, 06:43 AM
So... they assign only two shinigamis to the focal point of spiritual activity? Are they stupider than we thought?

depends on how stupid you thought they were.
since im somewhat surprised they aren't trying to eat their own hats by now, no, they're not stupider than i thought.

also; CALLED IT

Arakune
2012-02-08, 07:10 AM
also; CALLED IT

What exactly you called?

And apparently the hollows are some form of natural barrier between the material and immaterial world?

thubby
2012-02-08, 07:32 AM
What exactly you called?

And apparently the hollows are some form of natural barrier between the material and immaterial world?

there wasn't so much detail, but it's been canon that quincy killing hollow somehow threatens the stability of the universe.

and

the problem with this break is that the arc just ended. which means even after the break, nothing of consequence is going to happen for 3 weeks after that.
this

Frozen_Feet
2012-02-08, 08:24 AM
I think it may be jumping to conclusions that Quincies are going to be the bad guys, but the dialogue sure hints to that direction.

Also, pitiful newbie Shinigami are pitiful. I'd liked them to have stood their ground at least a bit better...

Arakune
2012-02-08, 08:35 AM
I think it may be jumping to conclusions that Quincies are going to be the bad guys, but the dialogue sure hints to that direction.

Aren't they supposed to be long dead already?


Also, pitiful newbie Shinigami are pitiful. I'd liked them to have stood their ground at least a bit better...

That's like asking for the stormtroopers to actually hit Luke and Solo.

thubby
2012-02-08, 08:56 AM
That's like asking for the stormtroopers to actually hit Luke and Solo.

at least luke and solo were threatened by them, enough to run away on multiple occasions.
that's all we're asking really, that they at least be presented as credible combatants.

Arakune
2012-02-08, 08:58 AM
at least luke and solo were threatened by them, enough to run away on multiple occasions.
that's all we're asking really, that they at least be presented as credible combatants.

This is shonen. Nobody except the protagonists and main antagonists is allowed to be presented as a credible combatant.

Socratov
2012-02-08, 09:23 AM
we actually need an inverse worf effect to reinstate Ichigo as awesomeness incarnate.

On those newbies, ofcourse you're going to send newbies when you have had the major battles. I mean, aizen is 'gone' Ginjou is gone, so what's to fear? Except of course stronger hollows, more hollows, and an area that is generally weird when it comes to spirit shizzle...

Psyren
2012-02-08, 09:29 AM
Also, if those are the standard grade of Hollow that Ichigo (and, I suppose, the significant density of spiritually-powerful people in Karakura) is attracting.. what the hell is Soul Society doing sending two raw newb Shinigami to try and cover it?

I'll play devil's advocate here with two answers to this:

1) It's possible they got faulty readings, like they did on the training exercise with Renji, Kira, Hinamori and Hisagi. Back then it was Aizen who jumped the class with much stronger hollows than they imagined would be on a training exercise like that, and the presence of the shadowy observer indicates that this is no accident either.

2) Even if they suspected trouble, the purpose of the greenhorns was never to fight anything truly serious; their explicit purpose is to handle the small-fry so that the "shinigami representative" can take care of anything big. So even if they knew Karakura was going bat****, they would still consider it a fairly safe assignment with Ichigo on duty. (At least, it would've been had they not been jumped right at the portal.)


At least we're finally going to see an Arc with Quincy as a big thing.....

Except they are enemies. :smallannoyed:

Let's not be premature. Mayuri made that conclusion with the info he knew, but he could easily be wrong; Quincy MO does not necessarily mean Quincy.

Or even if they are Quincy, they may be a rogue group that even the Ishidas could end up fighting.

Socratov
2012-02-08, 09:35 AM
the problem is, the quichy have been almost exterminated, so what tells us only the quinchy figured out how to handle hollows? I guess it's another family/clan/whatever that found out how to do it and just decided to start business...

Drolyt
2012-02-08, 12:22 PM
Anyone read the new chapter? Can the words "FINAL ARC" be taken seriously?
Looks like it. It does say "The Final Arc" right there in the chapter. The first chapter does look promising in my opinion.

Nope. Because Bleach has the smell of being the DBZ of it's time.
Meaning what? DBZ went on for a long time, that is true, but it was never anything less than the highest quality, although it tended to not take itself that seriously, at least outside the Frieza arc.

Turalisj
2012-02-08, 12:36 PM
Meaning what? DBZ went on for a long time, that is true, but it was never anything less than the highest quality, although it tended to not take itself that seriously, at least outside the Frieza arc.

Meaning this: The original author wanted to end it several times, at least four, but wasn't allowed to. If Bleach stays true to it's heritage, we'll be seeing it go on for the next ten years.

I'm not saying anything about the quality, but the length. Bleach is a phenomenal cash cow and Shonen Jump will want to milk it for all it's worth until, like DBZ, the end result is a dried out husk. Okay maybe I'm a bit bitter over the quality of GT.....

Drolyt
2012-02-08, 01:02 PM
Meaning this: The original author wanted to end it several times, at least four, but wasn't allowed to. If Bleach stays true to it's heritage, we'll be seeing it go on for the next ten years.
Only twice, at the end of the Frieza arc and again after the Cell arc. At any rate he wasn't forced to continue, just pressured into it. They did the same thing at the end of the Buu arc, but he decided he was done. They tried to make GT without him but that was disastrous.

MammonAzrael
2012-02-08, 01:05 PM
while likely untrue, it's possible that the two rookies were sent to Karakura under false pretenses. Perhaps they were the worst of their class, and sending them to Karakura was a trial-by-fire choice, they either get up to snuff or they're no longer a problem. Karakura is a safe choice because, while it has high amounts of activity, Ichigo is there to prevent any true disasters.

Psyren
2012-02-08, 01:34 PM
Meaning what? DBZ went on for a long time, that is true, but it was never anything less than the highest quality, although it tended to not take itself that seriously, at least outside the Frieza arc.

Agreed - DBZ gets a lot more flack than it deserves. Watch Dragon Ball Kai (subbed) to get an idea of what the series was supposed to be like.

There were some idiot/villain ball moments at points (particularly involving Vegeta) but the show on the whole was tight, lean and action-packed.


while likely untrue, it's possible that the two rookies were sent to Karakura under false pretenses. Perhaps they were the worst of their class, and sending them to Karakura was a trial-by-fire choice, they either get up to snuff or they're no longer a problem. Karakura is a safe choice because, while it has high amounts of activity, Ichigo is there to prevent any true disasters.

Perhaps more accurately, Urahara is there to prevent any true disasters. After all, even when they didn't trust Ichigo, they stationed their most inept guy to keep watch on that town.

DiscipleofBob
2012-02-08, 01:37 PM
This chapter is why I never play Shinigami.

Hollows are always camping the starting area.

Turalisj
2012-02-08, 01:37 PM
Agreed - DBZ gets a lot more flack than it deserves. Watch Dragon Ball Kai (subbed) to get an idea of what the series was supposed to be like.

There were some idiot/villain ball moments at points (particularly involving Vegeta) but the show on the whole was tight, lean and action-packed.

Again, not speaking of it's quality. I love DBZ and it was one of the first anime I got into.


Only twice, at the end of the Frieza arc and again after the Cell arc. At any rate he wasn't forced to continue, just pressured into it. They did the same thing at the end of the Buu arc, but he decided he was done. They tried to make GT without him but that was disastrous.

Four times, including Dragon Ball. And now there's an MMO out (in Asia)

Primal Fury
2012-02-08, 03:07 PM
That shift in tone was fairly... jarring. We've got two scrubs up against literally insurmountable odds, one of which just watched his friend die (and possibly get eaten), then get beaten nearly to death by a single hit, and THEN fall into utter despair as his death creeps closer and closer... only to have Ichigo show up, one-shot both hollow, and tell him to "get it in gear".
This is ridiculous. :smallannoyed:

Psyren
2012-02-08, 03:16 PM
Now now, it could be a translation issue. Ichigo's meaning may have been closer to "Don't give up now! Your friend needs you." (I don't think she's dead in any event; there's a body, so Orihime can heal it.)

After all, as the series' king Determinator (and possibly the most determined Determinator in shonen history, at least until Natsu steals his title) he knows better than anyone else what being on the brink of death feels like, and how to get up/keep going from that state.

I feel dirty defending Kubo, but it's too early to hate this arc yet. Let's at least wait until Chad is marginalized again.

Primal Fury
2012-02-08, 05:26 PM
(I don't think she's dead in any event; there's a body, so Orihime can heal it.)
Very true. For some odd reason, I always forget that the other characters actually have a purpose. :smallconfused:

Socratov
2012-02-12, 07:00 AM
Now now, it could be a translation issue. Ichigo's meaning may have been closer to "Don't give up now! Your friend needs you." (I don't think she's dead in any event; there's a body, so Orihime can heal it.)

After all, as the series' king Determinator (and possibly the most determined Determinator in shonen history, at least until Natsu steals his title) he knows better than anyone else what being on the brink of death feels like, and how to get up/keep going from that state.

I feel dirty defending Kubo, but it's too early to hate this arc yet. Let's at least wait until Chad is marginalized again.

come to think of it, chad actually had one of the biggest roles last arc... I mean, he actually taught Ichigo how to use fullbring :smallamused:

Fredaintdead
2012-02-12, 07:54 AM
come to think of it, chad actually had one of the biggest roles last arc... I mean, he actually taught Ichigo how to use fullbring :smallamused:

Chad? Who's Chad? :smallamused:

Socratov
2012-02-12, 01:42 PM
Chad? Who's Chad? :smallamused:

you know that nobody yelling something about pride :smallamused:

Fredaintdead
2012-02-12, 01:47 PM
you know that nobody yelling something about pride :smallamused:

You're going to have to be more specific... this IS Bleach afterall. :smallbiggrin:

Turalisj
2012-02-12, 04:05 PM
The hispanic dude.

Fredaintdead
2012-02-12, 04:57 PM
The hispanic dude.

Oh THAT guy who talks about pride. I kind of liked him. I wish we had an arc that focused on him. :smallbiggrin:

Anteros
2012-02-12, 07:09 PM
Oh THAT guy who talks about pride. I kind of liked him. I wish we had an arc that focused on him. :smallbiggrin:

No thanks. He's boring.

Psyren
2012-02-12, 07:36 PM
you know that nobody yelling something about pride :smallamused:

You're going to have to be more specific... this IS Bleach afterall. :smallbiggrin:

I lol'ed hard :smallbiggrin:

Any theories on why Karakura is a hollow hotbed again and why SS is clueless about it (as usual)?

thubby
2012-02-12, 09:27 PM
I lol'ed hard :smallbiggrin:

Any theories on why Karakura is a hollow hotbed again and why SS is clueless about it (as usual)?

might have something to do with the walking nuclear reactor of spirit energy that is ichigo.

Thrawn183
2012-02-12, 10:01 PM
The hispanic dude.

Oh, you mean the hollow that fought Ichigo by kicking. Yeah, he yelled about pride a lot.

Socratov
2012-02-13, 05:25 AM
to be more specific: the hispanic dude muttering about his abuero a lot :smallwink:

HandofShadows
2012-02-13, 05:14 PM
In case you didn't catch it, Mangastream got a nasty legal letter. So they have dropped all the Jump series including Bleach.

Fiery Diamond
2012-02-13, 05:19 PM
In case you didn't catch it, Mangastream got a nasty legal letter. So they have dropped all the Jump series including Bleach.

Well that's a bit disappointing. They had the best scanlators out there. That's where I go/went for Bleach, Naruto, and Fairy Tail.

Socratov
2012-02-13, 05:53 PM
personally i go to manga-access for my manga needs, they seem to feature a lot of mangas, including some of which i like

lord_khaine
2012-02-13, 07:13 PM
Mangafox also seems to have it covered.

Julian84
2012-02-13, 09:28 PM
Mangareader is also relatively okay... though their translations are kinda crappy. Sucks about Mangastream, they were my number one choice.

Drolyt
2012-02-14, 02:01 AM
Well that's a bit disappointing. They had the best scanlators out there. That's where I go/went for Bleach, Naruto, and Fairy Tail.
They aren't dropping Fairy Tail, and the other 2 are easily found elsewhere. Not as quickly and usually not as high quality, but that is the kind of thing you have to deal with when people provide a service for free.

Socratov
2012-02-15, 11:58 AM
Oh wow, chad just had some lines to say!

Psyren
2012-02-15, 01:28 PM
Good to see team Ichigo still patrolling the streets :smallsmile: And more updates on the other vizard are always good.


And I was right about Orihime patching up the two squirts. Although now i kinda want to try roasted mackerel-bread...

Finally, it looks like there are more arrancar too. But if this guy's being so forward he must be a small-fry.

Tenno Seremel
2012-02-15, 02:06 PM
Oh wow, chad just had some lines to say!
I had hopes for a second…

Also, Russians are in your Bleach now.

DiscipleofBob
2012-02-15, 02:49 PM
Oh wow, chad just had some lines to say!

He's contractually obligated to have X amount of lines and/or action scenes per arc (I'm guessing they're not planning on having much of the latter), or else he technically qualifies as an extra and not a character, and Chad doesn't yet qualify for the extras union membership, even with Tatsuki's sponsorship.

thubby
2012-02-15, 04:45 PM
another arrancar?
really?

Drolyt
2012-02-15, 05:11 PM
another arrancar?
really?
It looks that way, but we don't know for sure.

lord_khaine
2012-02-15, 05:15 PM
I guess its time to set up the betting pool, Arrancar (natural or not), or something new?

My personal bet is on Arrancer, mostly because its the only sort of hollow we have seen put up any sort of real fight.

Tenno Seremel
2012-02-15, 05:19 PM
It's Aizen in disguise.

maximus25
2012-02-15, 05:23 PM
Arrancar.

Also, it's a little weird seeing all the new things in the final arc. The end of Bleach. It's so weird.

Julian84
2012-02-16, 09:05 AM
Heaven forbid that more than one interesting thing happens per chapter. Oh well, we now have Russian Arrancars...

Or perhaps a Quincy with a strange name and a hollow mask fragment. Don't ask me how that would work, I don't know.

Or maybe the first Hollow-Quincy Hybrid.

... Great, Ichigo is probably going to get Quincy powers in this arc. Thereby showing how awesome he is, and never using those skills ever again.

thubby
2012-02-16, 09:14 AM
what would happen if a quincy soul turned hollow?

and why didnt fullbringers do stuff like destroy the ground their enemy was standing on? they can definitely use their abilities at a distance.

and what will fullbring have to do with any of this?

and why does fullbring exist?

Psyren
2012-02-16, 10:11 AM
and why does fullbring exist?

Because Kubo has a master's degree in trolling the fans.

"Hey guys I finally got around to the mythology behind Chad and Orihime's powers! Now let's throw it all out the window so I can bring out the captains again."

Haruspex_Pariah
2012-02-16, 11:03 AM
Personally I'm surprised that Bleach is ending. Did Kubo save enough money to retire permanently or something? :smallconfused:

Psyren
2012-02-16, 11:20 AM
Personally I'm surprised that Bleach is ending. Did Kubo save enough money to retire permanently or something? :smallconfused:

Just because he's done writing it doesn't mean it's over. See also: DBGT.

As far as money though, I gather he's pretty successful.

Haruspex_Pariah
2012-02-16, 11:30 AM
Just because he's done writing it doesn't mean it's over. See also: DBGT.

As far as money though, I gather he's pretty successful.

Yeah, but I always figured Kubo would keep going and going. If Bleach goes the Dragonball road, we might eventually end up with a...Hollywood Live Action Movie! :smalleek:

Although, it might be interesting if Kubo handed off his characters to another writing team...

maximus25
2012-02-16, 01:38 PM
There is already a live action Bleach movie in the works.

And it looks ****ing awful.

Drolyt
2012-02-16, 01:40 PM
Personally I'm surprised that Bleach is ending. Did Kubo save enough money to retire permanently or something? :smallconfused:
I don't know for sure how much money he has, but mangaka own their works. In addition to his Jump salary I believe he gets royalties from the Tankoban, Anime, and everything else, so yeah, he should be rich. I do know some of the richest people in Japan are Mangaka.

tyckspoon
2012-02-16, 08:18 PM
There is already a live action Bleach movie in the works.

And it looks ****ing awful.

Most live-action versions are, anime (especially shonen action) is not a style that suffers the limits of reality very well. Not without so much CGI that you probably could have done it faster just animating it anyway.

Turalisj
2012-02-16, 08:24 PM
Cowboy Bebop Live Action.

There, I said it.
*gets ready to dodge attacks*

thubby
2012-02-16, 08:35 PM
Most live-action versions are, anime (especially shonen action) is not a style that suffers the limits of reality very well. Not without so much CGI that you probably could have done it faster just animating it anyway.

deathnote worked surprisingly well.
then again, thats much more talking than action.

Tebryn
2012-02-16, 08:39 PM
deathnote worked surprisingly well.
then again, thats much more talking than action.

And you know...there are already at least two out there so.

Drolyt
2012-02-17, 01:15 AM
Cowboy Bebop Live Action.

There, I said it.
*gets ready to dodge attacks*
I haven't heard anything about this in a while, but I have high hopes.

Turalisj
2012-02-17, 12:43 PM
People have suggested Bruce Willis as Jet Black.

I approve of this idea. So very much.

Sotharsyl
2012-02-17, 01:50 PM
I haven't heard anything about this in a while, but I have high hopes.

Didn't Keanu Reaves say he wanted to be Spike or something, it could have been a fake rumour though.

SlyGuyMcFly
2012-02-17, 02:32 PM
Didn't Keanu Reaves say he wanted to be Spike or something, it could have been a fake rumour though.

I heard rumours to that effect, and fervently hoped they where unfounded.

Turalisj
2012-02-17, 02:37 PM
I heard rumours to that effect, and fervently hoped they where unfounded.

Because we know Spike is such a fountain of emotion and thus outside of Keanu Reeve's normal casting :smallwink:

Drolyt
2012-02-17, 04:09 PM
Didn't Keanu Reaves say he wanted to be Spike or something, it could have been a fake rumour though.
I've seen it quoted in a number of places, and it is on MTV's website (that's the Wikipedia citation for some reason) among other places, so I think it is accurate.

I heard rumours to that effect, and fervently hoped they where unfounded.
Why? I like Keanu Reaves, at least sometimes. Also he kind of looks like Spike.

Because we know Spike is such a fountain of emotion and thus outside of Keanu Reeve's normal casting :smallwink:
Right. There are certain roles Reaves does well, and I think he could do a good Spike.

Turalisj
2012-02-17, 04:18 PM
Right. There are certain roles Reaves does well, and I think he could do a good Spike.

I think so too. The idea though, is often met with a mix of shock/horror/disgust.

Friv
2012-02-17, 04:19 PM
Right. There are certain roles Reaves does well, and I think he could do a good Spike.

Yeah, it's not like they were offering him the lead in Akira.

(*so glad he turned that down*)

Anyway, I'm not so sure anymore. I think Reaves could have been a good Spike ten years ago, but he's pushing fifty, and the character he was based on was 27 years old. You can easily push Spike into his thirties and keep his style, and you can make Keanu at forty look like he's in his young or mid-thirties, but I feel like once you move him into middle age, it doesn't work as well. The ship is rapidly sailing away on that casting.

But given that the movie's been dead in the water for a year and a half at least, I think it's a moot point.

MammonAzrael
2012-02-17, 04:19 PM
Right. There are certain roles Reaves does well, and I think he could do a good Spike.

I think he could do a solid Spike, but only when Spike is mildly bored and just living. I don't think Reaves would make a good Spike, be unable to send out that quiet but deep passion and emotion, when we start to see his scars, particularly involving Vicious, Julia, and the Red Dragon Clan.

Drolyt
2012-02-19, 02:21 AM
Meaning this: The original author wanted to end it several times, at least four, but wasn't allowed to. If Bleach stays true to it's heritage, we'll be seeing it go on for the next ten years.

I'm not saying anything about the quality, but the length. Bleach is a phenomenal cash cow and Shonen Jump will want to milk it for all it's worth until, like DBZ, the end result is a dried out husk. Okay maybe I'm a bit bitter over the quality of GT.....
This conversation was from a while ago, but I decided to bring it back because I recently realized that I'd never seen the interview where Toriyama stated this, and if you believe this (http://www.kanzentai.com/intended_end.php?id=05) site, he never did. He did state that he wanted to end it at the end of Dragon Ball (ie after the Demon King Picollo Arc) but that was the only time. Odd, since I had thought it was after the Frieza Arc that he said that, but I cannot find the evidence of that. So yeah.

Turalisj
2012-02-19, 02:22 AM
Toriyama isn't exactly known for his great memory. :smallwink:

Drolyt
2012-02-19, 02:37 AM
Toriyama isn't exactly known for his great memory. :smallwink:
"Who's Lunch/Launch?"

Arakune
2012-02-22, 07:58 AM
Way to be subtle in trying to justify Old Man Genocide actions in wiping out the Qincy, Kubo. Did you found it too hard to make Soul Society a bunch of psychopaths?

Friv
2012-02-22, 09:23 AM
Way to be subtle in trying to justify Old Man Genocide actions in wiping out the Qincy, Kubo. Did you found it too hard to make Soul Society a bunch of psychopaths?

I guess the new comic is out. Lesse...

I'm actually not sure I follow your complaint. At all.

Anyway, we already had justification for Soul Society's purge of the Quincy. It was a difficult decision made because they were going to destroy the world and refused to stop.

thubby
2012-02-22, 10:15 AM
new chapter. something is about to happen. all fear my precognition!

anyhow. so he looks exactly like an arrancar, but isn't. this was done because...?

Friv
2012-02-22, 10:19 AM
new chapter. something is about to happen. all fear my precognition!

anyhow. so he looks exactly like an arrancar, but isn't. this was done because...?

If I had to guess, it's the same basic process that creates the arrancar, but it's not an arrancar because it's fusing hollow-powers with Quincy-powers instead of with shinigami-powers. You still get the fancy hollow half-mask, but you have a crazy magic superbow instead of a crazy sword and beastform.

Arakune
2012-02-22, 10:51 AM
Anyway, we already had justification for Soul Society's purge of the Quincy. It was a difficult decision made because they were going to destroy the world and refused to stop.

The problem is that we only had the word of Soul Society on this fact, and that no other organization could prove that the Quincy killing hollows actually would lead to the end of the word.

They are absurdly secretive on the inner workings of the spiritual worlds, almost everything is classified even to high ranking captains and excluding a few select nobody even know where to look at, the society itself is extremely corrupt, and for those who watch anime you can't turn a corner without finding something Soul Society did that create the antagonist of the week.

The only evidence they have that Quincy killing souls is 'bad' is because the hollow doesn't purify itself and go to Soul Society. There was nothing that could prove the souls won't reincarnate straight out into the Living World, or that the spirit particles won't form Object Souls (as show in the Fullbringer Ar) eventually.

Now with the Quincy being proven wrong and becoming the new villains, the Genocide was just, necessary and the Quincy had it coming for them, while at worst the shinigami involved were just a bunch of *****.

jindra34
2012-02-22, 10:56 AM
Anyway, we already had justification for Soul Society's purge of the Quincy. It was a difficult decision made because they were going to destroy the world and refused to stop.

Just pointing out if the issue arises from Quincy taking out hollows, then there was another solution; namely being good enough at their job to beat the Quincy to the punch every last time. Too bad that would have made SS hyper competent.

Psyren
2012-02-22, 11:13 AM
Quirrancar!

Now we know what happened to them all, I guess. (Maybe?)

Friv
2012-02-22, 11:42 AM
The problem is that we only had the word of Soul Society on this fact, and that no other organization could prove that the Quincy killing hollows actually would lead to the end of the word.

They are absurdly secretive on the inner workings of the spiritual worlds, almost everything is classified even to high ranking captains and excluding a few select nobody even know where to look at, the society itself is extremely corrupt, and for those who watch anime you can't turn a corner without finding something Soul Society did that create the antagonist of the week.

The only evidence they have that Quincy killing souls is 'bad' is because the hollow doesn't purify itself and go to Soul Society. There was nothing that could prove the souls won't reincarnate straight out into the Living World, or that the spirit particles won't form Object Souls (as show in the Fullbringer Ar) eventually.

Now with the Quincy being proven wrong and becoming the new villains, the Genocide was just, necessary and the Quincy had it coming for them, while at worst the shinigami involved were just a bunch of *****.

See, I never got any of that from the original Quincy stuff. Hell, even Ishida said that he didn't hate Soul Society for wiping out the Quincy as a whole. While I understand unreliable narrator as an issue, there was never anything given to suggest that Quincies didn't destroy souls utterly, or that Soul Society would make that degree of mistake. The entire Quincy storyline was, "They fought with hatred and wouldn't accept that Hollows deserved better than obliteration, and so they died".

What I'm saying is, I took all of the things that you're talking about as a given, so the fact that they are now provably true is... exactly 100% what I expected.

danzibr
2012-02-22, 01:03 PM
I have a question. I started rewatching the series and in the very first scene of the very first episode, well... I'm pretty sure it's Hueco Mundo, but what's that black stuff that seems to be growing?

EDIT: Also, I won't be happy if Bleach ends before we see all the captains' bankai. Except maybe Kenpachi.

Drolyt
2012-02-22, 01:37 PM
Way to be subtle in trying to justify Old Man Genocide actions in wiping out the Qincy, Kubo. Did you found it too hard to make Soul Society a bunch of psychopaths?
I'll be honest, I don't follow your criticism. At any rate I'm not surprised, I had a feeling it was not an Arrancar.

HandofShadows
2012-02-22, 01:39 PM
Quincy vs Soul Reaper War Part II.

One question though. If Quincys destroy souls totaly and it causes major problems, then why hasn't anyone even said anything about it to Uryu. Come to think of it Orihime and Chad might destroy souls as well.

darksolitaire
2012-02-22, 02:06 PM
One question though. If Quincys destroy souls totaly and it causes major problems, then why hasn't anyone even said anything about it to Uryu. Come to think of it Orihime and Chad might destroy souls as well.

That struck me strange at the beginning as well. Only thing I can imagine is that Ishida destroying hollows is much less harmful then clan of quincy destroying hollows. Go and figure.

Tavar
2012-02-22, 02:12 PM
That struck me strange at the beginning as well. Only thing I can imagine is that Ishida destroying hollows is much less harmful then clan of quincy destroying hollows. Go and figure.

Considering we know that souls do leave the cycle if they end up going to hell, I'd imagine that there is some method by which new souls are added to the world's supply. I'd say the issue was the Quincy Clan was widespread enough that they outstripped the world's natural re-supply mechanic, and thus they were hunted down. A few quincy, however, wouldn't cause such a problem. Also, restrictions were likely lower during the war.

Anteros
2012-02-22, 04:01 PM
The Quincy are obviously not going to be the main bad guys of this arc guys. They don't have swords. We can't have a Bleach arc without sword fights.

This seems pretty obvious.

Drolyt
2012-02-22, 04:01 PM
That struck me strange at the beginning as well. Only thing I can imagine is that Ishida destroying hollows is much less harmful then clan of quincy destroying hollows. Go and figure.
Given that Ishida Soken (Uryuu's grandfather) attempted to reconcile with the Shinigami, I imagine that maybe the Ishida clan discovered a way to purify the hollows without a Zanpakuto? Other than that, it might have been too much trouble to wipe out the last Quincy family. It isn't clear how powerful Ishida Ryuuken is, but it is implied that he is Captain level. Since he inherited Soken's power but isn't interested in being a Quincy himself, it is likely that Soken was even stronger before passing his powers down. It would take at least a Captain to deal with them, and they were likely hiding themselves the same way Ukitake's group was, so the Shinigami might not have known where they were until Uryuu revealed himself.

Psyren
2012-02-22, 04:07 PM
The Quincy are obviously not going to be the main bad guys of this arc guys. They don't have swords. We can't have a Bleach arc without sword fights.

This seems pretty obvious.

Hollow Seele Schneider, maybe? :smalltongue:

Frozen_Feet
2012-02-22, 05:14 PM
anyhow. so he looks exactly like an arrancar, but isn't. this was done because...?

Well, the Quincy were mortals at one point. All Mortal Spirits have a chance to become Hollows - in the Bleach setting, dying is not the end of you (unless ironically enough, you're killed by a Quincy).

Which means... even if Quincy were eradicated from the material world, their spirits should be somewhere in the spiritual one. Even if Mayuri captured them all and destroyed their souls once, they could've been reincarnated...

About Hell: Bleach is quite clearly influenced by Japanese mythology, and in oriental view of the world, Hell is not the ultimate fate of bad souls - they eventually get redeemed and returned to the cycle. I've not seen Hell chapter movie, was there something there to imply otherwise?

tyckspoon
2012-02-22, 05:45 PM
Current guess:
This arc will not in fact have much to do with Quincies. What is actually happening:

We know there are factions in Soul Society that are not happy with how things are run there. One of these factions has figured out how to consume other spiritual beings for power, similar to how Hollows do it. This is why the Rukongai citizens are disappearing- they are either being taken for power or, if sufficiently angry at the SS rulers/propagandized, willingly sacrificing themselves to create champions who might be able to fight.

Thing is.. your normal Plus SS citizen is really pretty pathetic. They don't provide enough power to consider fighting the Shinigami, nevermind the commanding officers, not without performing massive genocides/sacrifices. But they *can* provide enough power to get to the living plane, where there are a pretty good number of more spiritually-powerful beings that are still weak enough to be overcome: Hollows. These would-be Soul Society rebels hunt down and consume them, which is why SS's monitoring equipment is reporting them as 'destroyed'. Eventually this process does what playing with Hollow power always does in Bleach, and you wind up either becoming a Hollow (and probably get put down by Ichigo) or ending up as whatever Mr. Not-an-Arrancar is.

(I'm not entirely convinced he's got Quincy as a base for his powers, since we just *had* an entire arc about evoking power out of objects and that doesn't look a lot like the energy-bow constructs Ishida uses, but it does seem to be what Kubo is trying to make us think.)

Drolyt
2012-02-22, 05:52 PM
Well, the Quincy were mortals at one point. All Mortal Spirits have a chance to become Hollows - in the Bleach setting, dying is not the end of you (unless ironically enough, you're killed by a Quincy).

Which means... even if Quincy were eradicated from the material world, their spirits should be somewhere in the spiritual one. Even if Mayuri captured them all and destroyed their souls once, they could've been reincarnated...

About Hell: Bleach is quite clearly influenced by Japanese mythology, and in oriental view of the world, Hell is not the ultimate fate of bad souls - they eventually get redeemed and returned to the cycle. I've not seen Hell chapter movie, was there something there to imply otherwise?
Assuming this is the Buddhist Hell, which is what the Japanese would be most familiar with, there are different levels (similar to the layers of Western conceptions of Hell) and you end up in a different one depending on your Karma. The worse the level, the longer you stay as well (to cleanse the spirit/clear your karma), and some levels require you to stay there ridiculous lengths of time, longer than the scientifically established age of the universe. In some versions the very lowest level, reserved for truly abnormal levels of evil, really is eternal.

As for the Quincy, I imagine they ended up in Rukongai. Did they retain their powers? I'm assuming not, or they would have continued their war and ended killed a second time and reincarnated. Perhaps, being pluses, they used Hollowification as a round about way to reclaim their Quincy powers.

jindra34
2012-02-22, 06:16 PM
Assuming this is the Buddhist Hell, which is what the Japanese would be most familiar with, there are different levels (similar to the layers of Western conceptions of Hell) and you end up in a different one depending on your Karma. The worse the level, the longer you stay as well (to cleanse the spirit/clear your karma), and some levels require you to stay there ridiculous lengths of time, longer than the scientifically established age of the universe. In some versions the very lowest level, reserved for truly abnormal levels of evil, really is eternal.

Actually the Japanese hell has levels by sin, and you stay at each level until your deemed to have suffered enough/atoned for the sins that put you there then move on to the one below, until your at the bottom where you're reincarnated. If I got everything right. And how the SS would fit into it I have no clue.

Frozen_Feet
2012-02-22, 06:20 PM
My point in bringing it up is mostly tha souls sent to Hell are not removed from the cycle - Hell is not a deviation of natural order, it's a part of it. Things aren't getting boinked out of balance by its existence.

danzibr
2012-02-22, 06:27 PM
So uhh... does anyone know what the creeping shadow stuff in Hueco Mundo is in episode 1?

Fiery Diamond
2012-02-22, 06:37 PM
Quincycar!

No, not a car that Quincies drive.

Anyhow, I'm guessing hollow/quincy combo for now. The little bracelet cross he has is very similar to Ishida's. The bow itself...not so much. Looks hollow-ish.

I do think that the quincies are not the main villains of this arc, though. They appeared at the beginning of the arc. The main baddies always wait a while to show up.

VanBuren
2012-02-22, 07:00 PM
Quincycar!

No, not a car that Quincies drive.

Anyhow, I'm guessing hollow/quincy combo for now. The little bracelet cross he has is very similar to Ishida's. The bow itself...not so much. Looks hollow-ish.

I do think that the quincies are not the main villains of this arc, though. They appeared at the beginning of the arc. The main baddies always wait a while to show up.

I dunno, Kūgo appeared in the first chapter of the last arc.

Fiery Diamond
2012-02-22, 07:51 PM
I dunno, Kūgo appeared in the first chapter of the last arc.

Hm. Point. It was a shorter arc, though. As I understand it, this arc is supposed to be a longer arc as well as the final arc. The King of Soul Society has to have relevance sometime, as does squad 0. I expect the quincies to be mid-bosses at best.

MammonAzrael
2012-02-22, 08:56 PM
Well...his name is Ivan, right? SS typically has Japanese names, Hollows had generally Spanish names, and if Ivan is an indication, this new faction will have generally...Russian?...names. This implies that he is at least the tip of the newest iceberg.

Yes, those are the only factions we've met. I don't know what you're talking about with this...what'd you say? Fullbringers? Don't remember them.

Also, why the hell would you send an entourage of random people to say "Excuse us, we're declaring way on y'all. FYI." I mean, wouldn't just ganking SS in secret be more effective? :smallconfused:

Drolyt
2012-02-22, 09:05 PM
Well...his name is Ivan, right? SS typically has Japanese names, Hollows had generally Spanish names, and if Ivan is an indication, this new faction will have generally...Russian?...names. This implies that he is at least the tip of the newest iceberg.

Yes, those are the only factions we've met. I don't know what you're talking about with this...what'd you say? Fullbringers? Don't remember them.

Also, why the hell would you send an entourage of random people to say "Excuse us, we're declaring way on y'all. FYI." I mean, wouldn't just ganking SS in secret be more effective? :smallconfused:
A Formal Declaration of War might not be strategically optimal, but it is considered honorable, and if these are the Quincy and they feel they are in the right in this war then it would only make sense that thy follow the Laws of War. Not every villain need be sneaky.

On another note, I think these guys kind of have to be Quincy. A couple chapters earlier, "The Thousand Year Blood War", Mayuri says "they are the only ones who can remove hollows from existence itself". That is pretty specific. It also implies that preventing reincarnation is a special ability, and recalling Ukitake's explanation that they were doing it as a form of revenge makes me think that Quincy don't have to destroy Hollows entirely. But I might be reading too much into it.

Socratov
2012-02-23, 04:51 AM
Ivan is russian/germanic (i.e. mainly east european), and we know Quinchy use German names for their techniques

Frozen_Feet
2012-02-23, 06:40 AM
Also, why the hell would you send an entourage of random people to say "Excuse us, we're declaring way on y'all. FYI." I mean, wouldn't just ganking SS in secret be more effective? :smallconfused:

From the looks of it, they did just gank the guards outside and sneak a numerically superior force of assassins straight to the Shinigami Head Honcho. What's to say they won't next try to kick Yamamoto's ass?

lord_khaine
2012-02-23, 08:04 AM
From the looks of it, they did just gank the guards outside and sneak a numerically superior force of assassins straight to the Shinigami Head Honcho. What's to say they won't next try to kick Yamamoto's ass?

Because until proven otherwise i would claim that they are a numerically inferior force?

This is Commander Genoside after all :smalltongue: