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Bedinsis
2012-01-10, 07:37 PM
As the title says, what would happen? Up until this point I've always assumed that Xykon would survive until his body is destroyed at which point he would reach his final rest. But today I figured that it literally contains Xykon's soul, so destroying it might possibly make his soul reach its final resting place and thereby killing his physical body as well. Never having played DnD and d20 being vague I turn to you, fellow comic readers.

What would happen?

Roland Itiative
2012-01-10, 07:40 PM
As the title says, what would happen? Up until this point I've always assumed that Xykon would survive until his body is destroyed at which point he would reach his final rest. But today I figured that it literally contains Xykon's soul, so destroying it might possibly make his soul reach its final resting place and thereby killing his physical body as well. Never having played DnD and d20 being vague I turn to you, fellow comic readers.

What would happen?

Your first assumption is right. The phylactery only holds his soul if it's not on his body (in other words, if his body is destroyed, like by the end of the dungeon of Dorukan arc), while he's undead and kicking his soul in firmly placed in his skeletal body. So destroying the phylactery would just make him "killable". That is, unless he made another one.

Bedinsis
2012-01-10, 07:50 PM
Your first assumption is right. The phylactery only holds his soul if it's not on his body (in other words, if his body is destroyed, like by the end of the dungeon of Dorukan arc), while he's undead and kicking his soul in firmly placed in his skeletal body. So destroying the phylactery would just make him "killable".

I thank you for your quick answer.


That is, unless he made another one.

He can make another one? So destroying it would "only" greatly inconvenience him instead of leaving him out of the "get out of death free"-card that it is?

Man, the Order face hard enemies.

Forealms
2012-01-10, 10:39 PM
So destroying the phylactery would just make him "killable". That is, unless he made another one.

I was under the impression that Liches could only have one phylactery, created upon becoming a Lich, and if destroyed was irreplaceable.

I don't have any evidence for this, though.

Rob Roy
2012-01-10, 10:47 PM
Liches can't make another one, but their is a FR specific epic spell that can fragment it. I highly doubt that Xycon can or has casted it though.

Need_A_Life
2012-01-10, 11:10 PM
Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp and 4,800 XP to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation. (From d20srd.com)

The rules neither confirm nor deny that liches can create a new phylactery if it is destroyed. Of course, as both psions and wizards have plenty of ways to re-create it by the time they get level 8 spells, I've always let people do it...

Especially since a Disjunction spell was already a powerful opener for a fight to begin with :smallamused: Losing the reason you have a +4 LA? No way.

blazingshadow
2012-01-10, 11:49 PM
libris mortis says that you can't make a new phylactery after you become a lich. that said there is nothing stopping Xykon from becoming a demilich which would be real trouble for all non epics out there

Emanick
2012-01-11, 01:47 AM
libris mortis says that you can't make a new phylactery after you become a lich. that said there is nothing stopping Xykon from becoming a demilich which would be real trouble for all non epics out there

Don't you need the trapped souls of like ten epic characters to become a demilich? (This is what I've heard from others, not read for myself, so take it with a grain of salt.)

skaddix
2012-01-11, 02:01 AM
Don't you need the trapped souls of like ten epic characters to become a demilich? (This is what I've heard from others, not read for myself, so take it with a grain of salt.)

xykon trapped the solos of two order of scribble members right? so that would be a start.

_Jarlaxle_
2012-01-11, 04:42 AM
No, part of the ritual to become a demilich is creating 8 soul gems. Those can each act as a phylactery of its own and holding the demilichs sould, but he doesn't need to trap somebody else in there.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/demilich.htm#creatingSoulGems

But I doubt that Xykon will become one beause he is far more powerfull than everyone else allready and as a demilich he would even be more powerfull by a great edge and the only way of him loosing would be something like the snarls destroys the whole world...

Ancalagon
2012-01-11, 06:39 AM
Lich (and for that matter demi-lich) transformation are always subject to the the specific DM/author. Therefore, we cannot know if Xykon is able to transform into a demi-lich or not.

The same goes for reconstructing a phylactery and I would say what is possible or not depends on the story alone here. If it makes a better story, the destruction of a phylactery is final - or not.

Heksefatter
2012-01-11, 07:50 AM
From the way Xykon spoke in SoD, I always figured that he could make a new one. Otherwise, he would not take the threat of it being destroyed as lightly. On the other hand, Xykon seemed genuinely scared when O-Chul threatened it.

In summary, I dunno. I don't think anyone really knows, except Rich. But I personally believe that a new phylactery can be constructed if need be, but it is draning and time-consuming, so therefore Xykon is loath to do it.

Kish
2012-01-11, 09:12 AM
Whether Xykon could ever replace the phylactery if it was destroyed is something no one but Rich knows.

Even Rich may not have decided. (He probably has if it's going to be important to the story, but he well may not if his outline includes, "Xykon and his phylactery ultimately get destroyed in the same strip.")

Ancalagon
2012-01-11, 09:40 AM
From the way Xykon spoke in SoD, I always figured that he could make a new one. Otherwise, he would not take the threat of it being destroyed as lightly. On the other hand, Xykon seemed genuinely scared when O-Chul threatened it.

He did not take the threat lightly.

He just pointed out destroying it would not do anything to him but if should receive only a scratch, he'd do very, very nasty things to Right-Eye and Redcloak.

NerfTW
2012-01-11, 11:13 AM
He can make another one? So destroying it would "only" greatly inconvenience him instead of leaving him out of the "get out of death free"-card that it is?

Man, the Order face hard enemies.

We can't know for sure, as that seems to vary by setting. All we know is that destroying it leaves him very, VERY vulnerable. Even if he can make another one, it leaves him open to being destroyed while he makes the new one. He may have had confidence during the fight with Darth V, but that was because he still had his ace in the hole. (And we've seen him being pretty confident even when he was still human)

My guess is no, though, since allowing him to go into hiding and making a new one would be pointless for the story at this point. He has it back. He'd need to lose it again, and then have it destroyed, and then spend time making another one. Story wise, there's not that much time left. The Order is about to deal with the second to last gate. Even if Xykon isn't involved this time, he's going to need to be at the next gate, and the Order will very likely have access to a wizard who can teleport at that point. (The elven lands being close by)

My completely arbitrary opinion is that Xykon has at most a week or so to get to Girard's gate (which I am guessing will be destroyed before hand) and then to off to Kraagor's gate. Not enough time to throw in the plot twist of "Even if you destroy the phylactary, you have to destroy Xykon before he makes a new one!"

Ancalagon
2012-01-11, 11:20 AM
I disagree the destroyed phylactery would leave him vulnerable. Yes, he'd lose his extra life, but he'd still be the probably most powerful being on that world with a lot of means to get out of harms way should things go badly.

Heksefatter
2012-01-11, 02:54 PM
He did not take the threat lightly.

He just pointed out destroying it would not do anything to him but if should receive only a scratch, he'd do very, very nasty things to Right-Eye and Redcloak.

Hrmmm....I beg to differ. He didn't behave like someone about to lose something irreplacable. Not to me, at least.

Zevox
2012-01-11, 03:07 PM
He can make another one? So destroying it would "only" greatly inconvenience him instead of leaving him out of the "get out of death free"-card that it is?

Man, the Order face hard enemies.
Uncertain. By the core rules, it's never specified whether a Lich can make another one. A splatbook on undead called Libris Mortis say they can't, but since that's just a splatbook it's up to the DM/author whether to use that or ignore it.

If I were the betting type, I'd wager Rich is more likely to go with "he can't make a new one if it's destroyed," just for dramatic convenience for the story, but it's always theoretically possible that he'd go the other route.

Zevox

Ancalagon
2012-01-11, 03:09 PM
Hrmmm....I beg to differ. He didn't behave like someone about to lose something irreplacable. Not to me, at least.

Touch it and I will rip out his spine is not enough? Then... what is?

Heksefatter
2012-01-11, 03:27 PM
Touch it and I will rip out his spine is not enough? Then... what is?

He acted cool and in control. Not as a guy with a gun to his skull. Furthermore, he let Redcloak keep it.

So to answer your question - showing traces of real fear and not letting the guy who just threatened him keep it.

Ancalagon
2012-01-11, 03:42 PM
He acted cool and in control.

We have Xykon rarely seen in panic. He surely is not someone who panics easily and usually even keeps calm under immense pressure.
And that he is "usually cool" is something that probably needs no further proof.

Heksefatter
2012-01-11, 06:11 PM
We have Xykon rarely seen in panic. He surely is not someone who panics easily and usually even keeps calm under immense pressure.
And that he is "usually cool" is something that probably needs no further proof.

He showed more fear, when it looked like it might be destroyed by O-Chul or thrown into the snarl-hole.

In any case, letting Redcloak keep it, just after he had threatened something irreplacable, would be pure insanity, even for Xykon.