Guts (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

[NeoSeraphi]

Guts (Fighter)
You fight harder when the odds are against you. If you manage to resist a creature's deadly special attack, or are able to shrug it off with the help of magic, you retaliate as a much stronger fighter than before.
Prerequisites: Base Fortitude Save +2, Endurance, Steadfast Determination
Benefit: You receive a +5 morale bonus to your attack and damage rolls after you successfully save against or are cured of one (or more) of the following conditions:

Ability damaged, ability drained, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, energy drained, entangled, exhausted, fatigued, frightened, nauseated, panicked, paralyzed, petrified, shaken, sickened, or stunned.

The bonus to attack and damage rolls lasts for a number of rounds equal to your character level.

As a constant secondary benefit of this feat, you may make a Fortitude save in place of a Reflex or Will save to resist any of the above conditions. (For example, a character with the Guts feat could make a Fortitude Negates save against the doom spell instead of a Will Negates, or a character with the Guts feat who was attacked by an assassin vine could make a Fortitude save against its entangle special attack instead of a Reflex save).

Finally, you receive a +2 bonus to all Fortitude saving throws.

[zimmerwald1915]

Do you get a cumulative +5 for each status effect under which you've been placed? Or does this feat only apply its bonus once?

[Seerow]

Is it just me or does this feat encourage the character to ask the group to throw a minor debuff on him so he can get a nice bonus? (Yes, I'll take a -1 to a stat I don't care about for +5 to hit and damage). Much moreso if the bonus stacks with itself (which I am assuming it doesn't)

[NeoSeraphi]

Do you get a cumulative +5 for each status effect under which you've been placed? Or does this feat only apply its bonus once?

Sure, you can get a +5 morale bonus per ailment, but that doesn't mean that bonuses of the same type (morale) stack.


Is it just me or does this feat encourage the character to ask the group to throw a minor debuff on him so he can get a nice bonus? (Yes, I'll take a -1 to a stat I don't care about for +5 to hit and damage). Much moreso if the bonus stacks with itself (which I am assuming it doesn't)

Yeah, it does have that unfortunate side effect, but hey, it's not like that hasn't happened in fiction before. (Vegeta asked Krillin to blow a hole in his chest so he could get his Saiyan healing boost, for one)

[Seerow]

Yeah, it does have that unfortunate side effect, but hey, it's not like that hasn't happened in fiction before. (Vegeta asked Krillin to blow a hole in his chest so he could get his Saiyan healing boost, for one)

Well the difference there is Vegeta didn't keep fighting with a hole in his chest, he took up fighting after being healed. In this case you have a guy encouraged to fight with a supposedly debilitating injury because it makes him stronger.

Maybe make it go that route instead then? After you've shrugged off (made a saving throw against) or been cured of a negative status ailment you get the bonus for X rounds or the rest of the encounter or whatever.

[NeoSeraphi]

Well the difference there is Vegeta didn't keep fighting with a hole in his chest, he took up fighting after being healed. In this case you have a guy encouraged to fight with a supposedly debilitating injury because it makes him stronger.

Maybe make it go that route instead then? After you've shrugged off (made a saving throw against) or been cured of a negative status ailment you get the bonus for X rounds or the rest of the encounter or whatever.

Hmm, yeah okay. Hold on, let me update. I've got another idea to help make it useful too.

[NeoSeraphi]

There we go! Much better. Thank you for your suggestion, Seerow. It was helpful as always. :smallsmile:

[Yitzi]

Perhaps it should boost Fortitude saves too?

[NeoSeraphi]

Perhaps it should boost Fortitude saves too?

The prerequisite feat already boosts your Fortitude save by +2, but if you say so. I think that might be a bit much for one feat to have, but feats are pretty all over the place when it comes to power. I'll throw in a scaling Fort save bonus so it doesn't come in all at once.

[Seerow]

The prerequisite feat already boosts your Fortitude save by +2, but if you say so. I think that might be a bit much for one feat to have, but feats are pretty all over the place when it comes to power. I'll throw in a scaling Fort save bonus so it doesn't come in all at once.

Honestly I think that the ability to use a fort save over a weaker save on so many effects is a plenty good effect. This hugely diminishes the weakness of lopsided saves, and is a good enough effect to be a feat on its own.

[NeoSeraphi]

Honestly I think that the ability to use a fort save over a weaker save on so many effects is a plenty good effect. This hugely diminishes the weakness of lopsided saves, and is a good enough effect to be a feat on its own.

This was my original line of thinking as well. For now, I'll remove the Fort save bonus and see what the general consensus is after a day or two of PEACH.

[Yitzi]

The prerequisite feat already boosts your Fortitude save by +2, but if you say so.

It fits the flavor very nicely.


I think that might be a bit much for one feat to have

If so, better to remove the attack bonus, or to restrict it to effects that are usually resisted with Fort; the Fort bonus just so clearly belongs in this feat.


but feats are pretty all over the place when it comes to power. I'll throw in a scaling Fort save bonus so it doesn't come in all at once.

Why would that be worse than the attack and damage bonuses coming all at once?

[NeoSeraphi]

Yitzi and Seerow's points are both valid, so I'm meeting halfway. I'm putting a Fort bonus in to fit the flavor of the feat, while keeping it small to prevent it from being too much.

With a +2 bonus to Fortitude saves, combined with Great Fortitude (and whatever class you would be taking with this, probably barbarian) you would be able to play a pretty gutsy character.

[Seerow]

Suggestion: If you're going to make it give +2 fort anyway, would it not be possible to have this simply replace great fortitude? Give it a different prereq if you want, maybe even something like Improved Toughness, but no need to have two back to back feats both giving the same save bonus.

[NeoSeraphi]

Suggestion: If you're going to make it give +2 fort anyway, would it not be possible to have this simply replace great fortitude? Give it a different prereq if you want, maybe even something like Improved Toughness, but no need to have two back to back feats both giving the same save bonus.

You mean like Greater Weapon Focus/Specialization?

Well, yeah, now that you've pointed it out, it does seem pretty terrible (even though my feat actually gives you a much better benefit in addition to doubling the bonuses of Great Fortitude)

Hmmm...but the problem is, I was counting on Great Fortitude to be a feat tax so that this feat wouldn't be too powerful. A feat like Improved Toughness actually really benefits a player. And I can't drop it down to Toughness or Endurance, those are just terrible (Great Fortitude isn't as helpful as Improved Toughness, but it's actually providing a benefit that will remain relevant throughout your adventuring career)

Seerow, do you have a suggestion for a feat other than Great Fortitude that isn't good enough to not just be another feat you'd take in addition to this one (making it feel less like a chain) but isn't so bad that it would give this feat Spring-Attack Syndrome?

[Circle of Life]

Seerow, do you have a suggestion for a feat other than Great Fortitude that isn't good enough to not just be another feat you'd take in addition to this one (making it feel less like a chain) but isn't so bad that it would give this feat Spring-Attack Syndrome?

I'm not Seerow, but Steadfast Determination seems like a perfect prerequisite for this.

[Seerow]

I'm surprised you think Improved toughness is that great. I rarely see anyone take it, and thought it fit nicely into that "Good enough to not kick yourself for taking, but not good enough to take without a solid reason"


But another fitting feat? Maybe tie it into the Combat Focus line of feats? Require Combat vigor or something, and make the "Use fort instead of something else" apply to any saving through (rather than specific effects), but requires expenditure of focus.


Steadfast Determination fits flavorwise, but it is made to boost will saves AND requires endurance. So not really a good mechanical fit unless you were to go modify that.

That's all I've got offhand. If I think of something else I'll pop back in.



edit: Ninjad on the steadfast determination lol

[NeoSeraphi]

Steadfast Determination is good, yeah. For now, that'll be the prerequisite, and if I think of something better I'll change it.

[Amechra]

I... don't understand.

Why does this feat not allow you to wield weapons two-size categories higher than you are?

It should also give you bonuses to disarm attempts using a Bite attack.

(Can anyone guess which old anime I am referencing?)

[NeoSeraphi]

I... don't understand.

Why does this feat not allow you to wield weapons two-size categories higher than you are?

It should also give you bonuses to disarm attempts using a Bite attack.

(Can anyone guess which old anime I am referencing?)

I appreciate the amazing Berserk reference (high five by the way), but that's spelled "Gutts". Also, this was originally intended to be a Pokemon reference, referring to the ability Guts which gives you a 50% Attack increase while affected by a special condition.

[Amechra]

Well, spelling really just depends on how you Romanize it.

And I did think of the Pokemon ability... after I posted that.

Berserk has ruined me... with AWESOME.

I now request something Berserk related from you. Pretty please with sugar on top.

[NeoSeraphi]

Argh, it's been so long since I saw Berserk...what did you have in mind? :smallbiggrin:

[Amechra]

Really, I just want an expansion to grapple rules that lets you grapple things in your mouth, for the purpose of disarming your foe's weapons.

Alternatively, a quick feat that gives you a bite attack expressly for that purpose.

[NeoSeraphi]

Here you go (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12514516#post12514516).