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View Full Version : 2.0 The Bladesinger who sings! (3.5, base class, PEACH)



BelGareth
2012-01-11, 01:36 PM
So of those you who have seen my other home brewing I am a fan of creating base classes from Prestige classes.

My most recent attempt was with the Bladesinger, a great PRC for which I keep in line with the Swiftblade and Abjurant Champion for pure awesomeness.

My first attempt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12409998#post12409998) wasn't particularly spectacular, although a decent translation to a 20 level base class I felt it lacked the ummph that my Ordained (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12317916) & Abjurant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218317) Champion base classes had.

So in an effort to fix this problem I have resolved to redux my original version, and here it is.

My main concern was with the name of the class, bladesinger, the Prestige class never really gave mention to an singing, yes the special abilities it granted were named as songs, but no singing was in the fluff or even part of the mechanics.

So I went out to fix that, I thought up several song/dance styles and created them kinda parallel to Martial disciplines puling inspiration from their namesakes and already printed material alike. So in essence it could now be called a Bladedancer just as it could be called a Bladesinger. Maybe a name change is in order?

Let me know what you think of the Song/dance styles, tried my best to make them interesting.

All in all hope you enjoy reading and please PEACH!

BelGareth
2012-01-11, 01:37 PM
The Bladesinger
"You sing for merriment and wine, I sing for the protection of my countrymen, don't you see the difference?"

Class skills (4 + Int Modifier per level): The class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Local)(Int), knowledge (Arcana)(Int), knowledge (history)(Int), knowledge (planes)(Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str) and Tumble (Dex).

4 * (4 + Int Modifier) for first level

Alignment: Any

Starting Age: As Bard

Starting Wealth: As Bard

Hit Dice: d8

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|-0-|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th

1st| +0 | +0 | +2 | +2 | Armored Mage, Chosen Weapon, Bladesong |4|1|-|-|-|-|-

2nd| +1| +0 | +3 | +3 | Cunning Initiative, Bladesong Style |4|2|-|-|-|-|-

3rd| +2 | +1 | +3 | +3 | Bladesong Style Ability |4|3|-|-|-|-|-

4th| +3 | +1 | +4 | +4 | Uncanny Dodge |4|3|1|-|-|-|-

5th| +3 | +1 | +4 | +4 | Bladesong Style Ability |4|4|2|-|-|-|-

6th| +4 | +2 | +5 | +5 | Spellstrike, Inner Cadence |4|4|3|-|-|-|-

7th| +5 | +2 | +5 | +5 | Bladesong Style Ability |4|4|3|1|-|-|-

8th| +6/+1 | +2 | +6 | +6 | Improved Uncanny Dodge |4|4|4|2|-|-|-

9th| +6/+1 | +3 | +6 | +6 | Bladesong Style Ability |4|4|4|3|-|-|-

10th| +7/+2 | +3 | +7 | +7 | |4|4|4|3|1|-|-

11th| +8/+3 | +3 | +7 | +7 | Bladesong Style Ability |4|4|4|4|2|-|-

12th| +9/+4 | +4 | +8 | +8 | Greater Spellstrike |4|4|4|4|3|-|-

13th| +9/+4 | +4 | +8 | +8 | Bladesong Style Ability |4|4|4|4|3|1|-

14th| +10/+5 | +4 | +9 | +9 | |4|4|4|4|4|2|-

15th| +11/+6/+1 | +5 | +9 | +9 | Bladesong Style Ability |4|4|4|4|4|3|-

16th| +12/+7/+2 | +5 | +10 | +10 | |4|4|4|4|4|3|1

17th| +12/+7/+2 | +5 | +10 | +10 | Bladesong Style Ability |4|4|4|4|4|4|2

18th| +13/+8/+3 | +6 | +11 | +11 | Power of the Bladesong |4|4|4|4|4|4|3

19th| +14/+9/+4 | +6 | +11 | +11 | Bladesong Style Ability |4|4|4|4|4|4|3

20th| +15/+10/+5 | +6 | +12 | +12 | Masterful Symphony |4|4|4|4|4|4|4
[/table]

Proficiencies: Bladesingers are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the Longsword, Rapier, Scimitar, and Flail. Bladesingers are proficient with light armor but not shields.

Spellcasting: A Bladesinger casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. A Bladesinger must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time (see below).

To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the Bladesinger must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Bladesinger’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the Bladesinger’s Intelligence modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a Bladesinger can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Bladesinger. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Intelligence score.

Unlike a bard or sorcerer, a Bladesinger may know any number of spells. She must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting a good night’s sleep and spending 1 hour studying her spellbook. While studying, the Bladesinger decides which spells to prepare.

Spellbook: A Bladesinger must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all Bladesingers can prepare from memory.

A Bladesinger begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard/sorcerer spells plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the Bladesinger has, the spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new Bladesinger level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new Bladesinger level) for her spellbook. At any time, a Bladesinger can also add spells found in other Bladesingers’ spellbooks to her own.

Armored Mage (Ex): Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster's gestures, which can cause spells to fail if those spells have a somatic component. A Bladesinger's limited focus and specialized training, however, allows her to avoid arcane spell failure so long as she wears only light armor and light shields. This training does not extend to medium or heavy armors, or to heavy shields. This ability does not apply to spells gained from a different spellcasting class.

Chosen Weapon: Choose a weapon that you are proficient with, you gain the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat when using that weapon regardless of whether or not it is a light weapon.

Cunning Initiative (Ex): At 2nd-level, a Bladesinger adds her Intelligence modifier on initiative checks, in addition to her Dexterity modifier.

Bladesong (Ex): When wielding her chosen weapon in one hand (and nothing in the other), a Bladesinger gains a dodge bonus to Armor Class equal to her class level, up to a maximum of her Intelligence bonus. If the Bladesinger wears medium or heavy armor, she loses all benefits of the bladesong style. When wielding her chosen weapon in one hand (and nothing in the other), a Bladesinger of 3rd-level or higher can take 10 when making a Concentration check to cast defensively. In addition she may add her class level, up to a maximum of her Intelligence bonus to melee damage when wielding her chosen weapon.

Bladesong Style (Su): A Bladesinger eventually learns a specific style of song to sing, usually one that exaggerates her style and thoughts. Much like the Masters of the individual Martial disciplines, so too can you find masters of individual song styles. These songs are usually accamponied by a specific dance that marries the arts together in a mystical performance.
At 2nd level the Bladesinger must choose a song style from the following list, once chosen she may not change her style. At each indicated level she gains an additional benefit. All abilities are active only while her bladesong is active.

A Bladesinger can enter her chosen Bladesong style as a free action 1/encounter for an amount of rounds equal to 1/2 level + Int Mod, while in the Bladesong style the Bladesinger and her allies within 30ft who can hear her gain +1 morale bonus to hit, damage, saves vs fear and spell DC's while singing your bladesong.
This bonus improves by +1 for every additional 5 levels above 5th level. Allies do not gain the bonus to DC's for spells.

A silence spell or similar affect suppresses these bonuses but not the Bladesong style benefits.

Bladsingers gain the following bonuses at the specific levels only if they have the appropriate ranks in either Perform (Dance) or Perform (Sing).
{table=head]Level|Perform Ranks
2|4
3|5
5|7
7|9
9|11
11|13
13|15
15|17
17|19
19|21
[/table]

Bladesong styles -

Floating lotus - Those Bladesingers who are neutral tend towards the Floating Lotus style, it represents balance, night and day, water and air, yin and yang. A neutral outlook is paramount to performing this Bladesong with any skill.

Special - The Bladesinger can choose which benefit to gain upon entering her style, these may be changed from encounter to encounter.

2nd - The Bladesinger may add her Intelligence Modifier to all diplomacy checks and gains it as a class skill.

3rd - All cure/inflict spells are added to the Bladesingers spell list, she must still prepare them ahead of time.

5th - Resistance 5 vs all energy.

7th - Flight 60ft (Perfect)(Ex) or Earthglide(Ex) as an Earth Elemental.

9th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special property sacred or profane (MiC) with her chosen weapon.

11th - Air or Land mastery as the Monster special abilities.

13th - Lifeward(SC) or deathward as the spells.

15th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special property holy or unholy with her chosen weapon.

17th - Resistance 10 vs all energy.

19th - Permanent mind blank affect (Ex).

Dancing Tiger - Much like the Blood claw discipline this song honors and emulates the powerful and graceful Tiger, many Scholars believe that the song pre dates the Blood claw discipline, but in actuality it was created in honor of it.

2nd - The Bladesinger may add her Intelligence Modifier to all Intimidate checks and gains it as a class skill.

3rd - Pounce, May apply melee damage as slashing damage.

5th - The Bladesinger gains enhanced speed, at 5th level she gains +10ft competence bonus which increased by +10ft for every additional 5 levels.

7th - Song of Fury (Ex): When a 7th-level Bladesinger makes a full attack when wielding her chosen weapon in one hand (and nothing in the other), she can make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack and each other attack made in that round take a –2 penalty. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the Bladesinger might make before her next action.

9th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special property Eager (Mic) with her chosen weapon.

11th - The Bladesinger gains the ability to perform a Rake attack with her chosen weapon on a pounce/charge and on a successful grapple.

13th - Song of Celerity (Ex): A Bladesinger of 13th-level has learned to shrug off the bonds that hold most people down, she gains a permanent Freedom of movement effect as long as she is wielding her chosen weapon (and nothing in the other).

15th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special property Speed with her chosen weapon.

17th - Greater song of Fury (Ex): A Bladesinger of 17th-level has learned the greater song of fury, as a full action the Bladesinger can make two additional attacks in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack and each other attack made in that round take a –2 penalty (this penalty does not stack with Song of Fury). This ability otherwise works the same as the Song of Fury.

19th - The Bladesinger become a terror to behold, she gains a frightful presence like that of a dragon.

Frightful Presence (Ex): The ability takes effect automatically whenever the Bladesinger attacks, charges, or moves nearby. Creatures within a radius of 10 feet × the Bladesingers Intelligence Modifier are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the Bladesinger. A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ˝ Bladesinger’s HD + Bladesinger’s Cha modifier) remains immune to that Bladesinger’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, creatures with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Creatures that have this ability ignore these affects.

Swaying Leaf - Bladesingers who embrace this style sway with the leaves and branches of the plants feigning their inner strength with graceful moves. Those drawn to this style gain abilities akin to monstrous plants.

2nd - The Bladesinger may add her Intelligence Modifier to all Balance checks.

3rd - When calculating Feint/Disarm/Trip checks the Bladesinger may use her level instead of BAB.

5th - Woodland Stride as the Ranger ability of the same name.

7th - Acid Resistance 10

9th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special property Corrosive (MiC) with her chosen weapon.

11th - Reach increases by 5ft

13th - Gain a slam attack, primary natural attack that deals 1d6 damage for medium creatures and 1d4 for small. (check MM for other sizes)

15th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special property Implacable (MiC) with her chosen weapon.

17th - Acid Resistance 20

19th - Gain medium fortification(50%) and DR 5/-

Rushing Water - The rushing water crushes everything, moving it aside or pounding it into nothing as it moves through. Bladesingers who take this style are forceful, brash and bold, they epitomize the waves of the ocean and avalanche, unstoppable when in motion.

2nd - The Bladesinger may add her Intelligence Modifier to all Swim checks.

3rd - The Bladesinger can add her full level in place of her BAB when calculating Bull Rush attempts, additionally she receives a free a Bull Rush with any attack she makes 1/round

5th - Water Walk and Freedom of movement while in water as the spells.

7th - Cold Resistance 10

9th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special property Frost with her chosen weapon.

11th - The Bladesinger can ignore up to 5 points of damage reduction except Epic. Additionally she gains the Improved bullrush feat whether or not she is qualified for the feat.

13th - 1/encounter she may use Avalanche of blades as the Martial Maneuver using her level as her initiator level.

15th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special property Collision (MiC) with her chosen weapon.

17th - Cold Resistance 20

19th - The Bladesinger can ignore up to 10 points of damage reduction except Epic.

Rising Phoenix - Like the risen Phoenix, those that dance to the rhythm of this song receive mystical energies and healing properties. Often this is the dance of Janni's and desert folk who enjoy the quick and rapid moves of its dance, others like this for the majestic flight and hidden meaning. Legend speaks of those who have mastered this song have defied death.

2nd - The Bladesinger may add her Intelligence Modifier to all Tumble checks.

3rd - The Bladesinger may use Shield Other as the spell 1/encounter.

5th - Fast Healing 1

7th - Fire Resistance 10

9th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special property Flaming with her chosen weapon.

11th - Flight 60ft (Perfect)(Ex)

13th - The Bladesinger can as a swift action use the Invocation Flee the Scene (CAr) with the exception that it does not leave an image after you leave. Instead it leaves a blast of flame dealing 1d4/ 2 levels in a 10 ft burst centered on you. A Reflex save halves this damage. Additionally the Bladesinger can act after the invocation is used.

15th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special property Vampiric with her chosen weapon.

17th - Fire Resistance 20

19th - The Bladesinger gains the chance of being resurrected much like the fabled bird named after the style. Upon death of the Bladesinger there is a 5% chance per Intelligence Modifier that she will be instantly resurrected as the True Resurrection spell fully healed. This ability activates whenever the Bladesinger dies in or outside of combat.

Sweeping wind - The rushing wind, sleeting storm and cackle of thunder are all musical notes to the dancer of the Sweeping wind style. Bladesingers of this style sway as if affected by strong winds, only to turn into living lightning and appear across the battlefield.

2nd - The Bladesinger may add her Intelligence modifier on checks vs Trip and Bull Rush attempts.

3rd - The Bladesinger can add her full level in place of her BAB when calculating Bull Rush attempts, additionally she receives a free a Bull Rush with any attack she makes 1/round.

5th - Air walk as the spell.

7th - Electricity/Sonic Resistance 10

9th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special property Screaming (MiC) with her chosen weapon.

11th - Gain affects of Entropic Warding per the invocation (CAr).

13th - As a full-round action you can become a living lightning bolt and move in a straight line up to 10 times your speed. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity while moving in this way. Creatures or objects in your path are affected as the Lightning Bolt spell but dealing 1d6/level (Max 20d6). Creatures do not block your movement but solid barriers do unless they are reduced to 0 hit points. You can use this power once per day for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence Modifier.

15th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special properties Thundering & Screaming Burst (MiC) with her chosen weapon.

17th - Electricity/Sonic Resistance 20

19th - DR 5/Cold Iron & Light Fortification 25%

Falling shadow - The most seductive dance known to Bladesinger Lore masters, it's fluid and slow motions blur the reality between the material and shadow plane. Those that master this strange and alien dance find themselves able to wrap the very shadows around them in a protective blanket.

2nd - The Bladesinger may add her Intelligence Modifier to all Hide & Move Silently checks.

3rd - Gain affects of Entropic Warding per the invocation (CAr)

5th - Gain sneak attack of a rogue equal to half your level.

7th - Resistance Negative Energy 10.

9th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special property Ghostrike (MiC) with her chosen weapon.

11th - Gain the invocation Walk unseen (Car).

13th - Gain Blindsight out to 30ft.

15th - The Bladesinger gains the weapon special property Blurstrike (MiC) with her chosen weapon.

17th - Resistance Negative Energy 20

19th - Immune to Negative levels and level drain.

All abilities that require a DC have a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the Bladesinger level + Int Modifier, any abilities that require a caster level use the Bladesingers total levels.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th-level, a Bladesinger can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A Bladesinger with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action (see Combat) against her.

If a Bladesinger already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

Spellstrike (Su): When wielding her chosen weapon in one hand (and nothing in the other), a 6th-level Bladesinger can cast a spell with a range of 'touch' from her spell list and deliver the spell through her chosen weapon as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a Bladesinger can make one free melee attack with her weapon (at her highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.

Inner Cadence (Ex): You learn to sing your song internally gaining the benefits of your Bladesong while in silenced area or similar affect. Allies still do not receive the benefit.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A Bladesinger of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked.

This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target does.

If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Greater Spellstrike (Ex): At 12th-level the Bladesinger increases her ability to deliver spellstrikes, gains the ability to deliver spells with a range other than 'touch' through her chosen weapon. This ability otherwise functions the same as spellstrike, except spells must have a single target.

Power of the Bladesong (Su): When wielding her chosen weapon in one hand (and nothing in the other), the Bladesinger can bring forth the wrath of the Bladesong, a Bladesinger of 18th level gains a competence bonus to his caster level checks to overcome spell resistance equal to her Intelligence modifier.

Masterful Symphony (Su): The Bladesinger has mastered the art of blending song and blade into one. She is considered a Master of her style gaining the following benefits: She becomes immune to all language and sonic based affects and can shoose whether or not she is affected by them. The bonuses that you grant your allies are no longer suppressed by Silence or similar affects, additionally allies receive your bonus to spell DC's.

Rapidghoul
2012-01-12, 12:55 PM
I like the class a lot. I've always thought Bladesinger was a neat PrC (my first character was going to prestige into it, but we never got that far), so a base class themed on it is a cool idea. The Bladesong styles a nice touch, and the abilities all make sense more or less.

One thing though, the class seems to lose a lot of speed in the later levels. A lot more dead levels, and the last two abilities seem kind of forgettable. Bladesong Styles help (and maybe you should put something about them in the table as well), but something to make the class feel epic at the 20th level beyond just a functional bonus to something you already have would be nice.

The class also seems to be a little more MAD than you might want. You need Int for spellcasting, Dex for AC and attack, Cha for Perform and other skills, Con for HP, Fort saves, and Concentration. You could dump Str between Dex to attack and Int to damage, and you could dump Wis since you have a strong Will save, but still that leaves four abilities. Why is the class Int based if it's so tied into songs like a bard? You could easily make the Int bonuses Cha based with the emphasis on music / singing / dancing. It'd make the class a lot less MAD.

BelGareth
2012-01-12, 01:50 PM
I like the class a lot. I've always thought Bladesinger was a neat PrC (my first character was going to prestige into it, but we never got that far), so a base class themed on it is a cool idea. The Bladesong styles a nice touch, and the abilities all make sense more or less.
Thanks, I like this class too!


One thing though, the class seems to lose a lot of speed in the later levels. A lot more dead levels, and the last two abilities seem kind of forgettable. Bladesong Styles help (and maybe you should put something about them in the table as well), but something to make the class feel epic at the 20th level beyond just a functional bonus to something you already have would be nice.
I disagree strongly here, the two last abilities are great, not too OP by any means but they are definitely not forgettable.

The first one allows the bladesinger to punch through SR, at higher levels this is key.

The capstone is a little less than most as there is a mini capstone for each bladesong style which are quite powerful.

Dead levels as you said, are not wanted, however new spells per day/spell levels are not dead levels.

You are right however I could put them on the table, I just don't like to clutter it up.


The class also seems to be a little more MAD than you might want. You need Int for spellcasting, Dex for AC and attack, Cha for Perform and other skills, Con for HP, Fort saves, and Concentration. You could dump Str between Dex to attack and Int to damage, and you could dump Wis since you have a strong Will save, but still that leaves four abilities. Why is the class Int based if it's so tied into songs like a bard? You could easily make the Int bonuses Cha based with the emphasis on music / singing / dancing. It'd make the class a lot less MAD.
I was actually thinking it was too SAD, it relies to heavily on Int for everything, DC's, bonus spells, damage, AC, etc...

The Perform is negligible as ranks are only required and not actual checks and therefore Cha is not a required stat.

Dex and Con are required almost for everyone.

I do agree that I could change the main stat (int) over to Charisma, but this is a wizard class type not a sorcerer and is a learned, to do this only to increase synergy between perform and the main stat for the class is not enough IMHO, especially as the perform is not necessary.

BelGareth
2012-01-14, 11:17 AM
Bump, I need some insight from more people, come on and comment please!

nonsi
2012-01-15, 10:33 AM
I personally have an issue with dead levels.
Levels 5, 11, 14, 17 and 19 are as dead as levels can get (3 and 9 are also dead levels class-wise, but then you at least get char-level-derived feats).
You just get elevated stats / greater quantities, but nothing really new and interesting that feels like level advancement.

BelGareth
2012-01-15, 04:44 PM
I personally have an issue with dead levels.
Levels 5, 11, 14, 17 and 19 are as dead as levels can get (3 and 9 are also dead levels class-wise, but then you at least get char-level-derived feats).
You just get elevated stats / greater quantities, but nothing really new and interesting that feels like level advancement.

Most of those dead levels you are referring to are only blank on the table, in fact a new Bladesong style ability is unlocked at every odd level.

Maybe I should add it to the table to eliminate confusion?

EDIT: added it to the table, only 3 dead levels. I admit 14 could use something as the only benefit you get is an extra spell per day.

DogbertLinc
2012-02-17, 01:41 PM
I really liked what you did with the original concept, and it seems to work out a lot better than the actual PrC, but I have some questions:

1.

3rd - All cure/inflict spells are added to the Bladesingers spell list, she must still prepare them ahead of time.
Considering this is usable 1/Encounter and only stays up for a few rounds, how does this even work? Also, the Cure line is exactly the most deserving of being cast spontaneously.

2. How much would it hurt your original concept by giving it spontaneous casting? I'm not the biggest fan of prepared casting, and if you remove the ability to learn spells from scrolls/spellbooks it shouldn't get too ridiculous.

3. Again, how would you feel by allowing someone to cherrypick Bladesong Style bonuses at each level to build their own style?

4. Maybe an "Extra Bladesong" feat to allow it usable 2/encounter if someone wants to switch out bonuses mid-combat or so?

Mangles
2012-02-18, 01:33 AM
At first I thought you ended up gaining 10 bladesong styles, of which there are only 7. Turns out you just get one that levels with you. I would only put bladesong style into the table once, at level 2. This may make your table look more empty but it is less confusing. Other things that could be added are int to everything. Like attack rolls, damage rolls, perform checks. Things that may be lacking since this guys is a little MAD. Alternatively add Dex to things so that those people who invest in high Dex instead of high Int don't loose out on all the goodies besides attack rolls.

EDIT: Read post 7 and saw that you changed the table too this. I guess you can't please everyone.

BelGareth
2012-02-18, 02:15 AM
I really liked what you did with the original concept, and it seems to work out a lot better than the actual PrC, but I have some questions:

1. Considering this is usable 1/Encounter and only stays up for a few rounds, how does this even work? Also, the Cure line is exactly the most deserving of being cast spontaneously.
Great point, those are not meant to be 1/encounter, I will add some text saying so.

2. How much would it hurt your original concept by giving it spontaneous casting? I'm not the biggest fan of prepared casting, and if you remove the ability to learn spells from scrolls/spellbooks it shouldn't get too ridiculous.Reason why I made it as it was, as the class is based of Int and spontaneous is Cha, plus the original class was the same.

3. Again, how would you feel by allowing someone to cherrypick Bladesong Style bonuses at each level to build their own style?
This may be an interesting idea, maybe a whole new style that melds others, I could write this out later...

4. Maybe an "Extra Bladesong" feat to allow it usable 2/encounter if someone wants to switch out bonuses mid-combat or so?
This too is interesting, but I'm not sure what you mean by switch out bonuses?



At first I thought you ended up gaining 10 bladesong styles, of which there are only 7. Turns out you just get one that levels with you. I would only put bladesong style into the table once, at level 2. This may make your table look more empty but it is less confusing. Other things that could be added are int to everything. Like attack rolls, damage rolls, perform checks. Things that may be lacking since this guys is a little MAD. Alternatively add Dex to things so that those people who invest in high Dex instead of high Int don't loose out on all the goodies besides attack rolls.

EDIT: Read post 7 and saw that you changed the table too this. I guess you can't please everyone.
I was thinking the same thing, but as you said can't appease everyone, maybe a Bladesong skill? or a different name on the table to reference the new ability.

Int IS added to damage and attack rolls....



Bladesong (Ex): When wielding her chosen weapon in one hand (and nothing in the other), a Bladesinger gains a dodge bonus to Armor Class equal to her class level, up to a maximum of her Intelligence bonus. If the Bladesinger wears medium or heavy armor, she loses all benefits of the bladesong style. When wielding her chosen weapon in one hand (and nothing in the other), a Bladesinger of 3rd-level or higher can take 10 when making a Concentration check to cast defensively. In addition she may add her class level, up to a maximum of her Intelligence bonus to melee damage when wielding her chosen weapon.


It's just capped at class level to allow for level growth.

@both, thanks for commenting and reading, it helps out a lot!

Bel

Mangles
2012-02-18, 02:48 AM
Ok so this guy wants good Int good Con and good Dex. Can dump str although will need a haversack or two and can dump wis and char. Strange though I know it is char doesn't actually affect how you perform your performance at all with this class as it is all based off ranks.

Int is AC, Damage, initiative, bladesong bonus and duration, and spells.
Dex is for your attack. This is probably only of note because its how you can deliver your spells.

Still primary is Int, then Dex for your to hit and finaly Con as you are a bit of a glass cannon

for 32 point buy probably want

str 8
dex 16
con 14
int 18
wis 8
char 8

or the elite array

Str 12
Dex 14
Con 13
Int 15
Wis 8
Char 10


Put all your level up attributes into Int for the bonus to just about everything except attack. Need ways of improving attack though, so flanking is recommended/whatever other ways that I can't think of. Headband of intellect/whatever bonuses you can get to Int are a must.

Mangles
2012-02-18, 02:52 AM
Pounce, May apply melee damage as slashing damage.

Do you get pounce and your weapon does slashing damage or does the ability named pounce change your weapons damage to slashing.



The Bladesinger gains the ability to perform a Rake attack with her chosen weapon on a pounce/charge and on a successful grapple.

What does Rake do. Is it the same as the one in savage species, if it is either write that's where it is from or put in specifically what it does. I'd do the later as it would make it more clear.


Song of Celerity (Ex): A Bladesinger of 13th-level has learned to shrug off the bonds that hold most people down, she gains a permanent Freedom of movement effect as long as she is wielding her chosen weapon (and nothing in the other).

missing the word hand at the end here, also you really didn't need the brackets.



19th - The Bladesinger gains the chance of being resurrected much like the fabled bird named after the style. Upon death of the Bladesinger there is a 5% chance per Intelligence Modifier that she will be instantly resurrected as the True Resurrection spell fully healed. This ability activates whenever the Bladesinger dies in or outside of combat.


If you can get an Int modifier of +20 you are invincible. Now I know that's a big ask but I'm sure optimisers can reach it.

DogbertLinc
2012-02-19, 07:15 AM
1. Duskblade/Beguiler are spontaneous Int casters, so that's not a hard rule.

2. At first I thought you could only get one of the bonuses the style offers at each activation, due to this line:

Special - The Bladesinger can choose which benefit to gain upon entering her style, these may be changed from encounter to encounter

I still maintain some interest in obtaining an extra Style, be it from the class or a feat. It adds some good variety to how you fight. (Also related to the "create own style" idea).

BelGareth
2012-02-19, 11:29 AM
Do you get pounce and your weapon does slashing damage or does the ability named pounce change your weapons damage to slashing.
You get pounce as the ability from the SRD, you MAY opt to change your weapons to deal slashing, Both are exclusive of one another and needn't be done together
When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can follow with a full attack—including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability.

What does Rake do. Is it the same as the one in savage species, if it is either write that's where it is from or put in specifically what it does. I'd do the later as it would make it more clear.
Rake is not from the savage species, it's from the MM1, it is also on SRD and easily available to find out online


A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks when it grapples its foe. Normally, a monster can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling, but a monster with the rake ability usually gains two additional claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. Rake attacks are not subject to the usual -4 penalty for attacking with a natural weapon in a grapple.

A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.

missing the word hand at the end here, also you really didn't need the brackets.
Good point

If you can get an Int modifier of +20 you are invincible. Now I know that's a big ask but I'm sure optimisers can reach it.
I challenge you to get a +20 Int build by level 20, virtually impossible, and if you do its going to be with cheese and a horrible build. BUT I was considering changing it to cap out at 90% to provide a possibility of failure



1. Duskblade/Beguiler are spontaneous Int casters, so that's not a hard rule.
This is true, Maybe I will change it as it is a popular request

2. At first I thought you could only get one of the bonuses the style offers at each activation, due to this line:


I still maintain some interest in obtaining an extra Style, be it from the class or a feat. It adds some good variety to how you fight. (Also related to the "create own style" idea).
I do believe that line is from my 1.0 Version, It will be removed post haste.

Thanks to every one commenting!

Bel.