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View Full Version : What were the things Redcloak summoned



Kaeso
2012-01-13, 11:46 AM
The question is all in the title, and referring to the last three comics. I know the elementals are supposed to be based on modern elements rather than the four classical ones, and are supposed to be a joke, but what about the smaller and large demons? What DnD monsters are they?

Gift Jeraff
2012-01-13, 12:00 PM
They are most likely horned devils (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#hornedDevilCornugon) and bearded devils (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#beardedDevilBarbazu), since horned devils have the ability to summon 1-6 bearded devils. Bearded devils don't seem to have flight, but the Giant also gave succubi plane shift and imps telepathy, so it's not a stretch to think he gave bearded devils wings.

Kaeso
2012-01-13, 04:40 PM
That does sound plausible, thanks a lot Jeraff :smallbiggrin:

hoff
2012-01-13, 04:51 PM
What I didn't understand was why redcloak was paying them, aren't summoned monsters forced to obey the summoner? It seems that he actually hired them by making contact with the infernal plane.

Silva Stormrage
2012-01-13, 04:53 PM
What I didn't understand was why redcloak was paying them, aren't summoned monsters forced to obey the summoner? It seems that he actually hired them by making contact with the infernal plane.

He was probably using the greater planar ally spell. Which DOES require you to pay them.

Morty
2012-01-13, 04:54 PM
The Summon Monster line of spells has limited duration. By summoning them through the Gate or Planar Ally spells and paying them, Redcloak could ensure that they'd stay there for the whole fight. At least, that's how it seems to me. There might be more to it.

Othesemo
2012-01-13, 04:57 PM
He was probably using the greater planar ally spell. Which DOES require you to pay them.

This is probably the case. Using Summon Monster (X) would result in the devils lasting for 102 seconds before vanishing- hardly enough time to crush the entirety of the resistance.

EDIT: Curse'd ninjas...

AlfredAmeoba
2012-01-13, 05:43 PM
They are most likely horned devils (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#hornedDevilCornugon) and bearded devils (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#beardedDevilBarbazu), since horned devils have the ability to summon 1-6 bearded devils. Bearded devils don't seem to have flight, but the Giant also gave succubi plane shift and imps telepathy, so it's not a stretch to think he gave bearded devils wings.

I think its far more likely that those were either oversized fiendish satyrs or pit fiends with furry pants and serious issues with using their more powerful abilities.

On a more serious note, what was that thing in the tunnel that killed the person? It looks a bit different from the other ones. Has anyone posted a hypothesis?

Winter Light
2012-01-13, 06:25 PM
On a more serious note, what was that thing in the tunnel that killed the person? It looks a bit different from the other ones. Has anyone posted a hypothesis?

Someone suggested balor, but that would be a demon and I believe the common consensus is that he liked summoned devils.

Could be a pit fiend. Lacks the "blah blah blah fire all around it" the SRD says they have, but then, artistic liberties. It's the only SRD devil with a CR higher than the horned devils (20 to their 16), and is large and massive, so make of that what you will.

Lvl45DM!
2012-01-13, 07:07 PM
Well I don't know jack about 3.5 monsters but someone suggested cornugon for the guy in the tunnel. But

Great Dane
2012-01-13, 07:09 PM
Can we determine what spell slots Redcloak used during this combat? I'm a newbie to 3.5 so correct me if I'm wrong, but...

9th: Implosion
9th: Unused
8th: Planar Ally, Greater (Horned Devil #1)
8th: Planar Ally, Greater (Horned Devil #2)
8th: Earthquake
6th: Word of Recall
#th: Summon Elemental
#th: Unnamed random spell used to kill paladin

Assuming the two Horned Devils summoned their Bearded cousins, is it possible RC has his entire arsenal of 7th and lower spells, plus one 9th, still available?

Edit: Forgot about Word of Recall.

Winter Light
2012-01-13, 09:39 PM
Well I don't know jack about 3.5 monsters but someone suggested cornugon for the guy in the tunnel.

Cornugons and Horned Devils are the same thing. I believe that the monster in the tunnel and the ones in the cave (commonly believed to be horned devils) are generally considered to be different creatures.

Kish
2012-01-13, 09:42 PM
Someone suggested balor, but that would be a demon and I believe the common consensus is that he liked summoned devils.
Not to say, couldn't summon demons if he wanted to, since as a Lawful cleric he can't cast [Chaotic] spells.

Steward
2012-01-14, 11:15 AM
It's probably a Pit Fiend, but it could be a Malebranche from Fiendish Codex 2.

Dark Matter
2012-01-14, 12:27 PM
#th: Summon ElementalProbably Summon Monster VIII, that's the level at which you'd get one greater elemental.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonMonsterVIII.htm

Earthquake is his "Destruction" domain spell.

Dark Matter
2012-01-14, 08:22 PM
Hmm... at 17th level, he used one too many 8th level spells.

IMHO his other 9th level spell was "Extended Summon Monster VIII". So we saw all his 8th and 9th level spells.

Nahmer
2012-01-14, 10:05 PM
Hmm... at 17th level, he used one too many 8th level spells.

IMHO his other 9th level spell was "Extended Summon Monster VIII". So we saw all his 8th and 9th level spells.

Earthquake was cast from his Destruction domain spell level 8 slot.

Dr.Epic
2012-01-14, 10:09 PM
Someone suggested balor, but that would be a demon and I believe the common consensus is that he liked summoned devils.

Balors? You mean a [censored by the Tolkien Estate].

:smallwink:

Balors; they wear mathral chainmail and eat hibbots who come from the Chire.:smallwink:

Dark Matter
2012-01-16, 09:18 AM
Earthquake was cast from his Destruction domain spell level 8 slot.Exactly. He's 17th level, he's got 2+1 8th level slots and 1+1 9th.

BaronOfHell
2012-01-16, 11:02 AM
I can't help to wonder if the OS elemental isn't individually more powerful than the horned devils. Not because it's made of a tougher and denser material and is way bigger, giving it advantage of range and mass. Not because it seems very agile in that it could actually capture someone. Not because it's a construct and as such, I imagine will pr. default have better resistance, and better endurance. No, I think it might be individually more powerful, despite being a lower level spell summon (though the devils have the advantage of spells, which could explain this), because there's only one OS elemental, while there are two horned devils. My gut feeling is that the single enemy is the most powerful one. I guess it's because one weaker guy won't add much to two stronger guys unlike two weaker guys and one stronger guys, but if this is why I think it'd be drama appropriate for the OS elemental to be the strongest individual unit (maybe beside Redcloak, though I imagine the summons are often close in power to the summoner otherwise summoning wouldn't be of much use, unless for crowd control, but that's what the bearded devils are for, is my guess), I'm not certain.

super dark33
2012-01-16, 11:10 AM
Well I don't know jack about 3.5 monsters but someone suggested cornugon for the guy in the tunnel. But

The devil in the tunnel is a pit fiend i think.

KillianHawkeye
2012-01-16, 11:28 AM
@BaronOfHell: Elementals are not the same as constructs FYI.

hamishspence
2012-01-16, 03:52 PM
The devil in the tunnel is a pit fiend i think.

Possible. The giant devil Qaar summoned didn't have the spiky scales that the one in the tunnel seems to.

If a pit fiend is a bit powerful for a 17th level cleric to be making use of, a malebranche (Huge devil from MM2, same number of HD as a horned devil/cornugon) might be an alternative.

Dark Matter
2012-01-18, 09:06 AM
I can't help to wonder if the OS elemental isn't individually more powerful than the horned devils.I doubt it. The Horned Devils are CR 16 and the Elder Elemental is CR 11. They both have DR 10 but it's the misc "devil" abilities (including regen) which are going to make life difficult.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elemental.htm

Other differences:
The Devils were paid, negotiated their working conditions, had to be summoned a head of time, took a lot longer to summon, were there more or less willingly, and were there a lot longer than the Elemental.

The Elemental wasn't paid, but Redcloak was able to bring him in with a snap of his fingers on the spot after he knew what would be the best choice.

Deepbluediver
2012-01-20, 03:01 PM
Exactly. He's 17th level, he's got 2+1 8th level slots and 1+1 9th.

Plus any bonus slots for having a high intellect score.

KillianHawkeye
2012-01-20, 10:09 PM
Plus any bonus slots for having a high intellect score.

You mean Wisdom score, since Redcloak is a Cleric and his casting is based on Wisdom.

Dusk Eclipse
2012-01-20, 10:15 PM
Possible. The giant devil Qaar summoned didn't have the spiky scales that the one in the tunnel seems to.

If a pit fiend is a bit powerful for a 17th level cleric to be making use of, a malebranche (Huge devil from MM2, same number of HD as a horned devil/cornugon) might be an alternative.

Since gate allows for HD up to twice your CL when calling a single creature, it is quite possible said devil was indeed a Pit Fiend, I also like to think that as the comic is assumed to follow Core only. The only times we have seen anyone using non-core material it is usually brought to attention.

Deepbluediver
2012-01-20, 10:53 PM
You mean Wisdom score, since Redcloak is a Cleric and his casting is based on Wisdom.

D'oh! yes, that one.

hamishspence
2012-01-21, 05:21 AM
Since gate allows for HD up to twice your CL when calling a single creature, it is quite possible said devil was indeed a Pit Fiend, I also like to think that as the comic is assumed to follow Core only. The only times we have seen anyone using non-core material it is usually brought to attention.

Usually- but not always. Sometimes noncore material passes without a mention of "Core" or the relevant splatbook- Warlocks, for example.

If the splatbooks have appeared onscreen (MM2, BoVD, Fiend Folio- in the strips discussing Redcloak's creation of 3 Xykon decoys) might that imply that they're in use from now on?

ti'esar
2012-01-21, 06:54 AM
Although it's worth nothing that all of the Xykon decoys were older-edition monsters that had were "shuffled out" to non-core books in 3rd edition, and from what I can tell that makes them a bit more likely to show up without mention then non-core material new to 3.5, considering that one of the primary reasons the comic focuses on core is recognition. (The warlock may be the same principle in reverse, come to think about it).

Gift Jeraff
2012-01-21, 03:48 PM
I think creatures are the major exception to the "lean towards core unless the comic explicitly says otherwise." Off the top of my head, we've had daemons, modrons, slaadi, koalinths, blues, catfolk, bullywugs (at least I think that's what Grubwriggler and his goons were), thri-kreen, and those elephant dudes, all without mention of the fact that they're non-core.

(Note: I'm assuming core in this context refers to stuff found in the 3.5 SRD. I might be off as to which creatures are considered non-core.)

KillianHawkeye
2012-01-21, 03:58 PM
I think creatures are the major exception to the "lean towards core unless the comic explicitly says otherwise." Off the top of my head, we've had daemons, modrons, slaadi, koalinths, blues, catfolk, bullywugs (at least I think that's what Grubwriggler and his goons were), thri-kreen, and those elephant dudes, all without mention of the fact that they're non-core.

(Note: I'm assuming core in this context refers to stuff found in the 3.5 SRD. I might be off as to which creatures are considered non-core.)

Slaad are actually core monsters, but due to being WotC product identity weren't included in the online SRD.

ti'esar
2012-01-21, 05:38 PM
I think creatures are the major exception to the "lean towards core unless the comic explicitly says otherwise." Off the top of my head, we've had daemons, modrons, slaadi, koalinths, blues, catfolk, bullywugs (at least I think that's what Grubwriggler and his goons were), thri-kreen, and those elephant dudes, all without mention of the fact that they're non-core.

(Note: I'm assuming core in this context refers to stuff found in the 3.5 SRD. I might be off as to which creatures are considered non-core.)

Like I said earlier, most of those are previous edition monsters that were "demoted". Have we seen any new-to-3.5 non-core creatures?

Edit: Also, what "elephant dudes"? I don't remember those.

Red XIV
2012-01-21, 09:08 PM
This is probably the case. Using Summon Monster (X) would result in the devils lasting for 102 seconds before vanishing- hardly enough time to crush the entirety of the resistance.
Especially given that the raiding party with the phylactery could have ended up being delayed getting back to the base. That would've vastly increased the odds of the somebody managing to escape with the phylactery, which of course would be a disaster for Redcloak.

hamishspence
2012-01-22, 07:38 AM
Edit: Also, what "elephant dudes"? I don't remember those.

These guys:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html

I'm not entirely sure what they are- most 3.0-3.5 ed elephant-headed guys are fiends or celestials. Loxo (MM2) are the main exception and they have two trunks, not one.