[3.5] Improved Feint revision

[The Troubadour]

Hey there, guys! Would these revisions make Improved Feint a worthwhile Feat, without unbalancing it?

- Feint becomes a Swift action instead of a Move action.
- Feint can be done with a BAB + attack roll modifiers (enhancement bonus, Weapon Focus, etc.) + Int modifier + 4 instead of a Bluff check.

[Ashtagon]

Hey there, guys! Would these revisions make Improved Feint a worthwhile Feat, without unbalancing it?

- Feint becomes a Swift action instead of a Move action.
- Feint can be done with a BAB + attack roll modifiers (enhancement bonus, Weapon Focus, etc.) + Int modifier + 4 instead of a Bluff check.

Well, the result of a successful feint is to deny the target his Dex bonus. Unless you have a special attack form that can take advantage of this, or the enemy has a surprisingly large Dex bonus, this is generally a big "so what". However, for rogues and others with sneak attack (or similar ability), it is very useful.

Every character class that has sneak attack also has the Bluff skill as a class skill. In other words, allowing BAB to help in making a sneak attack only really benefits those classes that don't really benefit all that much from feint attacks anyway.

[NeoSeraphi]

Every character class that has sneak attack also has the Bluff skill as a class skill.

I disagree with this statement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/blackguard.htm), but respect Ashtagon's sentiment. Making Feinting BAB based will end up with a net -8 penalty to Feint checks for rogues and ninjas, seeing as they have 23 ranks at 20th but only 15 BAB.

[The Troubadour]

Dratz. I don't care about Rogues, I wanted to make Feint worthwhile to Fighters. Hmmm... What if the Fighter also gained a bonus to the next attack and damage rolls? Say, +4/+2d6+Int modifier? Or perhaps +Int modifier to AC?

[Ashtagon]

Dratz. I don't care about Rogues, I wanted to make Feint worthwhile to Fighters. Hmmm... What if the Fighter also gained a bonus to the next attack and damage rolls? Say, +4/+2d6+Int modifier? Or perhaps +Int modifier to AC?

So its a swift action that gives a meaningful bonus to fighters? Given that the action economy means fighters have nothing else they can do with a swift action in a typical round, this effectively gives them a bonus on their rolls each round, dependent on a die roll.

Since you are rolling a die every round for the chance to add a bonus to a second die roll, that might get a little tedious.

Relevant thread is relevant:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/269971-fixing-feint-2.html

[The Troubadour]

Hmmm... How about this, then:

- Improved Feint is still a Move action.
- Feint can be done using attack roll + Int modifier + 4, instead of Bluff.
- If you use the attack roll option instead of Bluff, you will gain the following additional benefits to your next attack against the target: +4 to the attack roll, +2d6+BAB+Int modifier to the damage roll.

[Ashtagon]

That probably does buff fighters as you intend.

tbh though, I feel this just gives the rogue's toys to the fighter.

[Noctis Vigil]

From a GM perspective: I have honestly never seen anybody feint in my games. It just isn't worth the move action. I much like the idea of swift action feinting, since most martial classes don't have much to do with swift actions.