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Kyberwulf
2012-01-15, 05:25 PM
Not a Versus thread

I was watching Prince of Persia today, the Disney movie. It struck me, the only thing it has in common with the game, is the Dagger. It really felt like a live action Alladin, without Robin Williams.

lol.

Is that just me though?

Mutant Sheep
2012-01-15, 06:39 PM
Wait, there was a giant snake at the end of that movie and music? Gosh, I should watch it again. :smalltongue:

They are both based in a very similar setting and their inspirations are from (I think) the same 'frame story', so I think it makes sense they are rather similar.

Morph Bark
2012-01-15, 06:42 PM
Thing is, other than the dagger, the Sands and the main characters, it wasn't supposed to have much else in common with the Sands of Time game. The writer of the film is the same as the one for the games, so he knew what he was doing. Imagine if it really followed the game, that would have probably been unimaginably boring.

Never seen the English Aladdin, so can't comment on Robin Williams' presence or absence, but only the start really felt like that to me, to be honest.

t209
2012-01-15, 07:44 PM
Actually Aladdin came after Prince of Persia (the old game).

DiscipleofBob
2012-01-16, 11:14 AM
Actually Aladdin came after Prince of Persia (the old game).

Yes, but the tale of Aladdin is an old fairy tail. I don't think Prince of Persia was based off of anything before the original video game.

I was actually disappointed to find this wasn't a VS thread. Prince with the Dagger VS Aladdin with the Lamp. Could be an interesting matchup.

Traab
2012-01-16, 11:25 AM
Yes, but the tale of Aladdin is an old fairy tail. I don't think Prince of Persia was based off of anything before the original video game.

I was actually disappointed to find this wasn't a VS thread. Prince with the Dagger VS Aladdin with the Lamp. Could be an interesting matchup.

"Genie, I wish I had the dagger."

Now aladdin has both the lamp AND the dagger.

DiscipleofBob
2012-01-16, 11:34 AM
"Genie, I wish I had the dagger."

Now aladdin has both the lamp AND the dagger.

Yes, but then the Genie has to GET the dagger, and despite "infinite cosmic power," the Genie's real strength seems to be in throwing parties and musical numbers with numerous references centuries before they'd become relevant. See the Aladdin series where Genie is constantly overpowered, captured, fails at something when he literally has infinite power.

Besides, it's equally possible that the Prince could steal the lamp from Aladdin. If Gilbert Gottfried can do it and succeed...

Traab
2012-01-16, 11:40 AM
Yes, but then the Genie has to GET the dagger, and despite "infinite cosmic power," the Genie's real strength seems to be in throwing parties and musical numbers with numerous references centuries before they'd become relevant. See the Aladdin series where Genie is constantly overpowered, captured, fails at something when he literally has infinite power.

Besides, it's equally possible that the Prince could steal the lamp from Aladdin. If Gilbert Gottfried can do it and succeed...

BAH! BAH I SAY! The genie is only ever "overpowered" by a more powerful genie, which mister persia definately is not. And its not infinite cosmic power, its PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER! itty bitty living space!

DiscipleofBob
2012-01-16, 11:55 AM
BAH! BAH I SAY! The genie is only ever "overpowered" by a more powerful genie, which mister persia definately is not. And its not infinite cosmic power, its PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER! itty bitty living space!

No, he's frequently outsmarted, captured, outwitted, etcetera by even mundane villains, including one played by Jason Alexander of all people.

Hell, in Aladdin and the King of Thieves his total contribution to the first fight against them was growing really big and trying unsuccessfully to hold the ceiling together.

Traab
2012-01-16, 12:23 PM
No, he's frequently outsmarted, captured, outwitted, etcetera by even mundane villains, including one played by Jason Alexander of all people.

Hell, in Aladdin and the King of Thieves his total contribution to the first fight against them was growing really big and trying unsuccessfully to hold the ceiling together.

Ah, I dont know if I ever even watched king of thieves, I just recall him only losing out to mister super genie in movie 2, which made sense since he had been freed, which apparently weakened him, AND jafar had wished to be the most powerful genie in the world. And little things like his lamp getting snagged meaning he had to listen to whoever got it, which imo doesnt really count as him being overpowered, it was just a function of how being a genie works.

Kyberwulf
2012-01-16, 01:25 PM
The reason why I didn't want this as a Vs Thread, is because without the Lamp or the Genie, Aladdin has nothing really going for him. The Prince of Persia has YEARS of combat experience behind him.

I was merely commenting on the fact, that Prince of Persia just seemed alot like Aladdin with out the Genie.

Traab
2012-01-16, 02:09 PM
The reason why I didn't want this as a Vs Thread, is because without the Lamp or the Genie, Aladdin has nothing really going for him. The Prince of Persia has YEARS of combat experience behind him.

I was merely commenting on the fact, that Prince of Persia just seemed alot like Aladdin with out the Genie.

HEY! Aladdin has good things on his side! He... runs away really good! And he has a MONKEY! If you are nice, he also would have a flying carpet and a girlfriend with a bigass tiger!

Eldan
2012-01-16, 02:12 PM
If we take Aladdin of the original legends, he has none of those things, but instead a ring with infinite wishes.

Traab
2012-01-16, 02:15 PM
If we take Aladdin of the original legends, he has none of those things, but instead a ring with infinite wishes.

a ring with infinite wishes

infinite wishes


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TheThan
2012-01-16, 02:16 PM
HEY! Aladdin has good things on his side! He... runs away really good! And he has a MONKEY! If you are nice, he also would have a flying carpet and a girlfriend with a bigass tiger!

You're forgetting a good singing voice. :smallbiggrin:

Friv
2012-01-16, 03:55 PM
Yes, but then the Genie has to GET the dagger, and despite "infinite cosmic power," the Genie's real strength seems to be in throwing parties and musical numbers with numerous references centuries before they'd become relevant.

Centuries before, or centuries after? I read a rather interesting piece that suggested that Aladdin is actually set in a post-apocalyptic world, based on how long the genie was in the lamp and when he claimed to have been hanging out. ;)


See the Aladdin series where Genie is constantly overpowered, captured, fails at something when he literally has infinite power.

To be fair, as of the TV series the Genie was no longer infinitely powerful. He claimed that being granted his freedom drastically reduced his capabilities. In the original movie, every wish was granted perfectly so long as it was within the bounds of the spell.

So it would be a race to see who used their superpower first.

Eldan
2012-01-16, 04:07 PM
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, it was kinda broken. Both the lamp and the ring had spirits that would grant any wish of the wielder. The only limit being that they could not undo each other.

DiscipleofBob
2012-01-16, 04:09 PM
Centuries before, or centuries after? I read a rather interesting piece that suggested that Aladdin is actually set in a post-apocalyptic world, based on how long the genie was in the lamp and when he claimed to have been hanging out. ;)

That is... wow...

Brain hurts.

Awesome theory.


To be fair, as of the TV series the Genie was no longer infinitely powerful. He claimed that being granted his freedom drastically reduced his capabilities. In the original movie, every wish was granted perfectly so long as it was within the bounds of the spell.

So it would be a race to see who used their superpower first.

If that's the case, then isn't the winner the one with instant time travel? :smallconfused:

Morph Bark
2012-01-17, 10:04 AM
"Genie, I wish I had the dag--" *TIMEFLOOP* "Ge--" *stabbed*

Traab
2012-01-17, 10:10 AM
"Genie, I wish I had the dag--" *TIMEFLOOP* "Ge--" *stabbed*

Thats not exactly something that can be reversed and stopped since he doesnt even know its happened until AFTER he loses the dagger. Oh sure, I suppose if they were in the same room as each other and it started that way things might be different, but it would require him to realize what aladdin is doing and reverse time before it can happen. Or,

"Genie, I wish I had superior time travel abilities to the dagger." There, now we have a boring stalemate as anything less than instantaneous death with no time given to react would allow either one to win. At least, until aladdin figures out he only has to go back far enough to drop kill his mother while she is pregnant with the prince. (I think his dagger is only good for short resets right?)

Kyberwulf
2012-01-17, 11:48 AM
Well, to be fair. The Dagger doesn't let you Travel THROUGH time, more of a Time Manipulation device.

DiscipleofBob
2012-01-17, 01:16 PM
Thats not exactly something that can be reversed and stopped since he doesnt even know its happened until AFTER he loses the dagger. Oh sure, I suppose if they were in the same room as each other and it started that way things might be different, but it would require him to realize what aladdin is doing and reverse time before it can happen. Or,

That's assuming the Genie can get the dagger from the Prince. Theoretically, the Genie could just snap his fingers and *BAM* dagger, but Robin Williams sucks as a genie, and would do something really stupid like try to grab it by hand or grow multiple limbs or something likely actually dodgeable. At which point the Prince has to dodge the Genie to steal Aladdin's lamp. And that's been done.

Traab
2012-01-17, 01:25 PM
That's assuming the Genie can get the dagger from the Prince. Theoretically, the Genie could just snap his fingers and *BAM* dagger, but Robin Williams sucks as a genie, and would do something really stupid like try to grab it by hand or grow multiple limbs or something likely actually dodgeable. At which point the Prince has to dodge the Genie to steal Aladdin's lamp. And that's been done.

When it came to granting wishes, the genie did his job. He had fun with it with aladdin because his wishes like "make me a prince" werent time sensitive things that he had to snap his fingers and poof, instant prince. When he made jafar a super powerful wizard, it was point and shoot, same for making him a genie. No games, no silly strange methods of making it happen, "as you wish" and bam, its done. Im pretty sure in a life or death struggle he wouldnt have screwed around.

Friv
2012-01-17, 01:29 PM
That is... wow...

Brain hurts.

Awesome theory.

Yeah, let's see if I can find the original... ah, here it is (http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs160.snc3/18735_857598104393_3203204_47578860_1340599_n.jpg) . (A later poster pointed out that since Genie is also aware of modern celebrities, the earliest he could have been trapped again was actually somewhere in the late 20th century, so actually it was over eleven thousand years in the future.)


If that's the case, then isn't the winner the one with instant time travel? :smallconfused:

When Genie actually grants wishes, as opposed to when he's just futzing around, his power triggers instantly. See the time he turned Aladdin into a prince, and the time Jafar turned Aladdin out of a prince. On the flip side, the Prince can grab the lamp with time travel so long as he is aware that a competition is on. If Aladdin makes his third wish before the Prince activates the dagger, the Prince loses the dagger and can't hop back in time. If the prince activates the dagger first, he has enough tries to grab the lamp that Aladdin is doomed.

Obviously, if this challenge occurs after Aladdin has freed Genie, it's a clear win for the Prince. Free Genie doesn't have any powers comparable to time travel.

Ravens_cry
2012-01-17, 01:37 PM
If we take Aladdin of the original legends, he has none of those things, but instead a ring with infinite wishes.
On the other hand, those wishes were, well, they weren't less powerful, I think he got a palace with golden brick, but it wasn't *snap your fingers it's done* I think the palace took about a day, basically the genie was building him a palace.
He also had the lamp, which had a genie that was more powerful than the one in the ring.

Mewtarthio
2012-01-17, 01:53 PM
Im pretty sure in a life or death struggle he wouldnt have screwed around.

What about "Genie, I want you to save my life"? Instead of teleporting Al out of the lake or granting him the ability to breathe water or something, he turns into a submarine and drags him out. It seems like the wishes only trigger instantly when he doesn't want to grant them (and, therefore, is in no mood to be funny).


Yeah, let's see if I can find the original... ah, here it is (http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs160.snc3/18735_857598104393_3203204_47578860_1340599_n.jpg) . (A later poster pointed out that since Genie is also aware of modern celebrities, the earliest he could have been trapped again was actually somewhere in the late 20th century, so actually it was over eleven thousand years in the future.)

Wow. That's a little depressing. Sure, I suppose it's always been implied that all of Genie's friends and family are dead by now, but when you put it that way... Are all those zany, madcap impressions just nostalgia, then? Is he, perhaps, hoping that someone will laugh at one of them, ask more about it, and give him the opportunity to share a piece of his long-lost past with the world?


When Genie actually grants wishes, as opposed to when he's just futzing around, his power triggers instantly. See the time he turned Aladdin into a prince, and the time Jafar turned Aladdin out of a prince.

Odd examples, seeing as Genie went through a tailor sketch and a parody game show before turning Aladdin into Ali. And he didn't de-princify Ali, either: Jafar did that with his own power.

You know, now that I think about it, Aladdin really should have asked for his first wish back. Genie never granted it: He just gave Aladdin enough wealth and retainers to fake being a prince. The wish didn't give him any land or political power at all.

---

Anyway, we're getting off topic. You see, this fight isn't really about the Prince and Aladdin. It's about the Dagger and the Genie. We've reduced the actual characters to mules that happen to be carrying those artifacts, and that's terrible.

I say we should really be looking at the characters as two charismatic rogues who, through wits and acrobatics, managed to get their hands on artifacts of unspeakable power. Thus, the only proper contest between them is as follows:

Strip the Prince of his Dagger and Aladdin of his lamp. No magic items, no allies, nothing but the clothes on their respective backs. Drop them both in a crumbling, trap-infested temple. There is a single, prominently displayed MacGuffin that can be easily stored on their person located in the temple. Whoever escapes with the MacGuffin wins.

Kyberwulf
2012-01-17, 02:04 PM
Thats Easy. Prince would win, he is better trained, has more experience, and is more focused.

Traab
2012-01-17, 02:21 PM
You know, now that I think about it, Aladdin really should have asked for his first wish back. Genie never granted it: He just gave Aladdin enough wealth and retainers to fake being a prince. The wish didn't give him any land or political power at all.

---

Anyway, we're getting off topic. You see, this fight isn't really about the Prince and Aladdin. It's about the Dagger and the Genie. We've reduced the actual characters to mules that happen to be carrying those artifacts, and that's terrible.

I say we should really be looking at the characters as two charismatic rogues who, through wits and acrobatics, managed to get their hands on artifacts of unspeakable power. Thus, the only proper contest between them is as follows:

Strip the Prince of his Dagger and Aladdin of his lamp. No magic items, no allies, nothing but the clothes on their respective backs. Drop them both in a crumbling, trap-infested temple. There is a single, prominently displayed MacGuffin that can be easily stored on their person located in the temple. Whoever escapes with the MacGuffin wins.

He was prince ali of abwa. We dont know if that was real or not. For all we know, Abwa is an old realm that didnt have a ruler anymore and the genie just gave it to him.

And yeah, it boils down to the items of power, lamp versus knife, but it makes sense considering the raw power of the artifacts they hold. It would be like putting The Doctor up against someone and taking away his TARDIS. Sure it isnt everything, but its his biggest most powerful tool.

Raz_Fox
2012-01-17, 03:00 PM
You know, now that I think about it, Aladdin really should have asked for his first wish back. Genie never granted it: He just gave Aladdin enough wealth and retainers to fake being a prince. The wish didn't give him any land or political power at all.

The Steward sits on his chair by the empty throne and looks out at prosperous Abwa, and wonders when the Prince shall return to claim his beautiful country. Until that day comes, he will keep the master's land as it is: quiet, bountiful and happy.

And the farmers, in their fields, say to themselves: I bet you that today, today, Ali will come. He'll see our crops and say to us, well done. The merchants, as they trade with the caravans that pass through, ask: have you seen the Prince of Abwa on your travels? Oh, you haven't? Well, he's out there, and when he comes, it wouldn't do for him to see a poor kingdom, would it?

The Prince will come, after all.

And so Abwa waits.

Sunken Valley
2012-01-17, 03:12 PM
Not a Versus thread

I was watching Prince of Persia today, the Disney movie. It struck me, the only thing it has in common with the game, is the Dagger. It really felt like a live action Alladin, without Robin Williams.

lol.

Is that just me though?

Guys this is the OP's post. I think he wants us to talk about the films, not Dastan beating up Aladdin with his muscles

hamishspence
2012-01-17, 03:23 PM
He was prince ali of abwa. We dont know if that was real or not. For all we know, Abwa is an old realm that didnt have a ruler anymore and the genie just gave it to him.

It's "Prince Ali Ababwa"- otherwise the following dialogue with Jafar wouldn't make sense:

Jafar: "I'm afraid, Prince Abooboo-"
Aladdin: "Ababwa!"
Jafar: "Whatever. You cannot just parade in here uninvited and expect to-"

Traab
2012-01-17, 03:34 PM
It's "Prince Ali Ababwa"- otherwise the following dialogue with Jafar wouldn't make sense:

Jafar: "I'm afraid, Prince Abooboo-"
Aladdin: "Ababwa!"
Jafar: "Whatever. You cannot just parade in here uninvited and expect to-"

Hmm good point, its just hard to tell from the song, I always thought it went,

"Prince Ali, fabulous he, Ali of Abwa!" But Ali Ababwa works. And you are right, the joke doesnt work with the country name I thought it was.

Mewtarthio
2012-01-17, 05:28 PM
And the later exchange:

"So, just where did you say you were from?"
"Well... Much farther than you've traveled, I'm sure!"
"Try me."

You'd think if the genie actually did give him land to go with the title, he'd have told him where to find it. He'd at least need royal parents or the patronage of some powerful ruler or something.

Of course, we could just go with the "twisted wish" theory: While "Ali" was busy getting fitted for his new outfit, Genie was off hunting down Cassim (he can be in multiple places at once) and subtly arranging for him to become the King of Thieves. True, Genie doesn't try to screw with any of Jafar's wishes that way, but Al didn't actually want any of the responsibility of being a Prince.

It's also possible (along the same lines) that Cassim was already the King of Thieves, meaning Aladdin's wish was actually wasted (on par with "I wish to be a mammal"). That "Ali Ababwa" stuff was just Genie being nice.

Traab
2012-01-17, 06:50 PM
And the later exchange:

"So, just where did you say you were from?"
"Well... Much farther than you've traveled, I'm sure!"
"Try me."

You'd think if the genie actually did give him land to go with the title, he'd have told him where to find it. He'd at least need royal parents or the patronage of some powerful ruler or something.

Of course, we could just go with the "twisted wish" theory: While "Ali" was busy getting fitted for his new outfit, Genie was off hunting down Cassim (he can be in multiple places at once) and subtly arranging for him to become the King of Thieves. True, Genie doesn't try to screw with any of Jafar's wishes that way, but Al didn't actually want any of the responsibility of being a Prince.

It's also possible (along the same lines) that Cassim was already the King of Thieves, meaning Aladdin's wish was actually wasted (on par with "I wish to be a mammal"). That "Ali Ababwa" stuff was just Genie being nice.

Another possibility. Its easy to be a prince. Just ride off to some unclaimed land, claim it in your name, and you can call yourself by whatever title you want. Its entirely possible that the genie made some territory marking flags show up in some desolate wilderness and claimed it as Aladdins personal property.