PDA

View Full Version : Les Miserables Musical Discussion Thread I: It is Either Valjean or Javert!



The Mad Hatter
2012-01-17, 01:26 AM
Hi all! This thread is used to discuss the excellent musical version of Les Miserable. I, Myself am currently in a production of Les Miserable as Javert. So to starts tgis off: Who's youre favorite charactor?

doliest
2012-01-17, 01:53 AM
The Thenadiers. Honestly, horrible people they may be, they seem like a lot of fun when they start singing, and the actor playing Mr.Thenadier almost always has some great movement when he starts singing.
.
..
And now I'm going to have to go and watch all the Thenadier numbers again....

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-17, 01:59 AM
Dog Eat Dog is a nasty, disgusting song. Done well though. My favorite charactor would be Javert, though I am somewhat biased. Master of tge house is hilarious thpigh. 10Th anniversary all the way.

VanBuren
2012-01-17, 02:02 AM
The musical is becoming a movie, which is what I've wanted for oh so very long. That said, I'm worried.

doliest
2012-01-17, 02:03 AM
For the most part, I love the 25th anniversary cast. Really, I think they did a great job. Except...

This is the part where some complain about Nick Jonas. I didn't mind Nick. Personally, I thought he gave the role as much as one expects of it. My problem was Mr.Thenadier. I felt the 25th anniversary version was just too...over the top. The 10th anniversary was far more under-played, less 'goblin' and more 'used car salesman.' Still disgusting and vile, but less obvious about it. I might actually stop at an inn run by him. If I was desperate. And drunk.

Still, both versions work for me.

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-17, 02:04 AM
Its been a movie. Have you seeb the one with Geoffrey Rush? Les Miserable is just not tge same without music.:smallsigh: Thenadíer rocks the house in 10th. Javert is better in 10th too. I dont mind Nick. But its not ast emotional ast Michael Balls performance.

Aidan305
2012-01-17, 07:43 AM
Javert would be my favourite, with Valjean coming in at a close favourite.

The Thenardiers are entertaining, but in many ways the musical reduces them to comics relief from the truly unpleasant characters they represent in the book.

(Still love Master of the House though)

Thufir
2012-01-17, 10:50 AM
Valjean is the best character.

As to casts, 20th anniversary is where it was at. Granted I may be biased because I went to see it in London that year, but still.
10th anniversary is the best recording I've heard of it. I have the CD of the original London cast recording, I listen to it and go "You're singing that wrong."

Dienekes
2012-01-17, 11:08 AM
Favorite musical, and I have just about every song memorized. Personally I prefer the 10th anniversary edition in just about every regard, except for Fantine, because Lea Salonga has an amazing voice.

Favorite characters: Javert, Thénardiers, and Enjolras. The latter because I played that part in high school. Thénardiers because he's hilarious, evil, but hilarious. And Javert because I respect the character, while thinking he was grossly wrong which is fairly hard to do for me.

Favorite songs: Javert's Suicide, and the Confrontation. Very powerful and interesting songs both.

On Nick Jonas. I honestly had no clue who he was when I first heard him in Les Mis, but the first thing I said upon hearing him was "He has kind of a pop influence going" at which point my little brother explained to me who he was. I hate pop, so yeah, wasn't much of a fan of his interpretation. It wasn't the worst thing ever, but not my thing.

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-17, 11:45 AM
His suicide is hard to sing... Stressed. :smalleek:

Balain
2012-01-17, 05:06 PM
I love Les Mis in all it's forms. Between book,movies and the broadway production my favorite is Valjean.

I've seen the broadway production a dozen times or so and would love to see it a dozen more.

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-17, 06:18 PM
Whats y'alls favorite song from it?

Thufir
2012-01-17, 08:20 PM
One Day More. Got to be. It just has everything.
Though, Bring Him Home, Empty Chairs at Empty Tables, On My Own and A Little Fall of Rain are also definite favourites.

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-17, 09:08 PM
One day more 'till revolution, we will nip it in the bud. One day more is pretty awesome, second only to the confrontation.

Mutant Sheep
2012-01-18, 12:34 AM
The Javert theme is sweet. I have a real soft spot for the 10th anniversary edition, but... Jonas was kinda good. And the Javert there was awesome too, though he lacked the ponytail of manliness. :smallamused:

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-18, 12:46 AM
You can't be Javert with no ponytail. I grew mine out. :smallcool:

Urist
2012-01-18, 11:39 AM
Stars is an absolutely gorgeous song, when performed well. However, the Prologue and Bishop's solo is also wonderful.

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-18, 12:54 PM
Stars is even harder than Javerts Suicide, its a pain. Speaking of Javert, I got a new avatar.:smallwink:

Philistine
2012-01-18, 02:38 PM
Favorite character? Javert. Absolutely. Always. It bugs me that the musical version loses so much of his characterization compared to the book - he becomes almost a cardboard antagonist, and his suicide seems kind of... insane, rather than being the only possible option for a man who absolutely will not do wrong, but who's been put in a position where he has no morally acceptable choices. At least, not by the standards he's fought to uphold all his life. Taken on its own, Javert's story is a terrific tragedy, as the very quality that made him great ultimately results in his downfall. Even in Valjean's story, though, he's interesting because he's an antagonist who's in no way a villain.

Valjean, in every version of the story I know, is such a paragon of Good that he borders on parody. That's what he's meant to be, of course - had he been otherwise, it would have undercut the underlying message of the book - but it does mean he's not terribly interesting as a character.

Thenardier, OTOH, becomes much more palatable for having his characterization abbreviated and toned down to comic relief. In the book, he's like the Newtonian opposite but equal reaction to Valjean: so villainous that he ceases to be interesting again, because there's never any doubt of what he'll do in any situation. That's by design, just as with Valjean (and for the same reason), but understanding that doesn't make the character more interesting.

All of this IMO, of course.

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-18, 04:26 PM
Dog eat Dog is a nasty Thenadíer song. :smalleek:

Philistine
2012-01-18, 10:30 PM
Absolutely. But then his next appearance goes back to straight-up comic relief in "Beggars at the Feast." To the extent that Thenardier is interesting, it's because he is a pure villain... who isn't the antagonist. But while villains are usually allowed more freedom to vary their behavior than heroes, you really don't get that unpredictability with Thenardier. He doesn't have any competing priorities that could come into conflict and make him break the mold. Even Valjean gets to make one decision where he has to weigh opposing values - the good he's doing for the town (where he's both the Mayor and largest employer) vs. saving a man from false imprisonment due to mistaken identity - Thenardier doesn't even get that much. That's why I describe him as "so villainous that he ceases to be interesting."

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-19, 12:38 AM
Thats true. But Les Miserable is so depressin. They needed comic relief.:smalltongue:

Scarlet Knight
2012-01-20, 08:53 PM
I always wished I could be the Bishop. Best song? So hard to choose but lets say Eponine's On My Own.

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-20, 09:28 PM
One Day More... All tge way....or Stars.

Janus
2012-01-21, 08:38 AM
I knew there was a reason to keep my Halloween avatar...

One Day More's probably my favorite song. I couldn't pick a single favorite character, but I love the dichotomy between Valjean and Javert.

I mostly listen to the 10th Anniversary, but I have a soft spot for some songs in the 25th (and I think I prefer 25th's Confrontation to 10th's).
I didn't care for Nick Jonas as Marius. I think he's fine in songs like Empty Chairs at Empty Tables, but he sticks out like a sore thumb in songs like One Day More.


Its been a movie. Have you seeb the one with Geoffrey Rush? Les Miserable is just not tge same without music.:smallsigh:
The new movie is based on the musical. Hugh Jackman is playing Valjean, and Russel Crowe is Javert.

Savannah
2012-01-21, 02:30 PM
Whats y'alls favorite song from it?

Javert's Suicide. But in context -- I wouldn't love it nearly as much if Who Am I? wasn't in there so you can see the contrast.

AtlanteanTroll
2012-01-21, 02:35 PM
Its been a movie. Have you seeb the one with Geoffrey Rush? Les Miserable is just not tge same without music.:smallsigh: Thenadíer rocks the house in 10th. Javert is better in 10th too. I dont mind Nick. But its not ast emotional ast Michael Balls performance.

I'm pretty sure no one ast seeb it. On that note, I'm not a much of a fan of Les Miserables at all really. Master of the House is a fun number though.

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-21, 03:05 PM
Beggars at the Table is a fun Thenadier song too. He makes so much money...Its sad that the evil group have the happiest ending...:sigh:

VA_ron
2012-01-22, 06:39 PM
fave char is Javert

fave song tie between Stars and A Little Fall of Rain

VanBuren
2012-01-22, 10:51 PM
Beggars at the Table is a fun Thenadier song too. He makes so much money...Its sad that the evil group have the happiest ending...:sigh:

I wouldn't consider their ending any happier than Marius and Cosette's or even Valjean's. Valjean got the love and redemption he always wanted, and--I don't recall the book on this one--but the musical makes it clear that he's going to find peace in death as well.

Vacant
2012-01-23, 01:47 AM
On My Own is probably my favorite song in the musical, but choosing a favorite character is harder. Éponine is still great and gets some of the best songs, but I didn't like many of the changes made to her and plot surrounding her in the musical. In light of that, Fantine is probably my favorite.

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-23, 07:00 PM
:smallfrown:Eponine has a sad ending...

zimmerwald1915
2012-01-26, 02:56 AM
His suicide is hard to sing... Stressed. :smalleek:
If you can manage Valjean's realization you can drop your voice a bit for Javert's suicide.

Can't really pick a favorite song, though I've gotten the most milage out of singing Stars and The Confrontation.

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-26, 02:12 PM
Stars is a great song. The low note of Javerts in the confrontation is hard... I can barely hit it... Chaaaaa-ain.

megahobbit
2012-01-30, 10:39 PM
My fav character is gavroche in the book but in the musical marius is my favorite. On the subject of Dog eat dog I noticed that when Thenairdere appears without his wife the song is serious also I heard the movie cast ann hatheway as fontiane. I cant see her as fontiane.

Cikomyr
2012-01-30, 11:02 PM
Usually, my favourite interpretation of any song in Les Miserables will be those with Lea Salonga in them. She is awesome in both the 10th and the 25th anniversary, in two wholly different roles.

Otherwise, 10th anniversary Jean Valjean, I can so much feel the wind, the clear water, and the remorse he eventually feel..

25th Anniversary Javert. He's more than a simple cut-out "policeman antagonist" figure. He's becoming.. sadistic, fanatic. A true Knight Templar to allowed things to become personal against the man who played him for a fool for years.

Dienekes
2012-01-31, 01:01 AM
25th Anniversary Javert. He's more than a simple cut-out "policeman antagonist" figure. He's becoming.. sadistic, fanatic. A true Knight Templar to allowed things to become personal against the man who played him for a fool for years.

And that's one of the many reasons I prefer the 10th Anniversary edition. Javert is NOT sadistic, or fanatic. In fact his character's major flaw is that he holds himself and all others to an unrealistic vision of what is good that ultimately cannot be followed in a morally ambiguous world. Also one thing that I think the Anniversary editions miss that is given only a brief mention in the full musical is that Javert is not out actively looking for Valjean like a bloodhound, he's just this guy that keeps coming up. The 25th Anniversary Javert to me seemed a spiteful and repugnant man trying to destroy Valjean. The 10th was a good cop on the wrong side, which is exactly what the character is.

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-31, 01:51 PM
I have to agree with Dienekes. Javert is not insane, just misguided

Oindoth
2012-01-31, 03:18 PM
I've got good memories of singing Confrontation along with my brother, so that gets points from me. Stars is also great, mostly because of its powerful imagery, and how it really cements Javert's characterization. I'm a sucker for Red and Black as well. And Empty Chairs at Empty Tables. Not to mention the fact that One More Day is just all of the best songs sung in a medley, which is just boss. Hell, I just love the entire musical.

The Mad Hatter
2012-01-31, 04:32 PM
One day more is excellent. "One mor day 'till revolution, we will nip it in the bud. I will join these little schoolboys, they will wet themselves with blood."

Master of the house is fun too.

Cikomyr
2012-01-31, 10:26 PM
And that's one of the many reasons I prefer the 10th Anniversary edition. Javert is NOT sadistic, or fanatic. In fact his character's major flaw is that he holds himself and all others to an unrealistic vision of what is good that ultimately cannot be followed in a morally ambiguous world. Also one thing that I think the Anniversary editions miss that is given only a brief mention in the full musical is that Javert is not out actively looking for Valjean like a bloodhound, he's just this guy that keeps coming up. The 25th Anniversary Javert to me seemed a spiteful and repugnant man trying to destroy Valjean. The 10th was a good cop on the wrong side, which is exactly what the character is.

While I agree on your point of view on the level of "respect the original character's concept".

I still prefer, for the purpose of the Musical, the 25th anniversary sadistic/extremist Javert. "The Confrontation", "Stars", "Javert's Suicide" are just all the more emotive and poignant.

Again, it's not about respecting the original character's concept. It's about the pure enjoyment of the performance, and Black Javert (sorry, I have now idea what is the actor's name) is the best, IMHO :smallcool:

The Mad Hatter
2012-02-01, 12:43 AM
His names Norm something..

Dienekes
2012-02-01, 02:59 AM
While I agree on your point of view on the level of "respect the original character's concept".

I still prefer, for the purpose of the Musical, the 25th anniversary sadistic/extremist Javert. "The Confrontation", "Stars", "Javert's Suicide" are just all the more emotive and poignant.

Again, it's not about respecting the original character's concept. It's about the pure enjoyment of the performance, and Black Javert (sorry, I have now idea what is the actor's name) is the best, IMHO :smallcool:

And in my opinion the confrontation is more poignant and interesting a piece when it is between two opposed but good men, rather than dumbing it down to a simplistic good vs evil song (I also felt it was jarringly staccato but I'm willing to put that under me being set in my musical tastes). And again since the character has lost his nobility, the very reason why Stars and the Suicide were interesting for me beyond the always gorgeous music vanishes, in fact his whole arc loses meaning. Why should I care that a villain dies? He's a villain, that's what they do in most stories. Yet the musicals music is set up to show that Javert is trying to and believes he is doing good. Thus why Stars is actually a very pretty song and nothing in the lyrics is actually spiteful but emphasizes a man doing his duty, and why Javert's Suicide is one of the most emotional pieces in the whole play.

Now mind you, I'll never say you're wrong for liking 25th Javert more, by the contrary to each their own. I'm merely pointing out that the very qualities that you enjoyed so much made me disappointed in the performance.

Cikomyr
2012-02-01, 12:23 PM
Meh. For all the tales of Javert's obsessions about Valjean, they sure do a bad job depicting it during the musical.

Javert doesn't hint anything regarding his suspicions on Mr le Maire before the key revealing event. Even then, he doesn't push it beyond telling him about said suspicions, but dismissing them as irrelevant since the "real" Valjean has already been arrested.

Following Valjean's confession, Javert simply intervene and does his duty. He refuses Valjean's demands for some time to save Cosette, simply because Javert now knows how great a manipulator Valjean is (living as his own damn mayor and superior for years!).

The next Javert moment was when he (amazingly!) figured out who was the gentleman who ran away from his ambush save. But does he do anything about it?! No! He keeps doing his duties, his next scene is him infiltrating the Barricades, getting caught, and freed by Valjean. Only THEN does Javert actually go to Valjean and catch him. But only because he specifically knew where Valjean was going to be.

Javert didn't gave a single clue of obsessing over Valjean except when he gets actual information as to his whereabouts and current location. (during the Musical, at least).

It shows a man who is hellbent dedicated to his duty, not personnel desires. 25th Javert's sadistic and vengeful nature gives him a new dimension beyond the bidimensional "Lawful Neutral Policeman". He knows his desires are evil, which is why he is wary of them and so dutifully follows His Path laid out by the stars. It's not about what he wants, it's about what he should do. Because only THEN he knows he is doing good.

He is tormented between his evil nature and his dedication to a higher ideal to help him escape what he sees as his personal corruption, which he probably associates with his origins. Also why he hates and despise those who started up with a better lot in life but spoilered their chance.

When his evil nature and his Duty Ideals are in harmony, this is when the mask is off. I alike this... Awakening to Delenn's comments about the constant disputes between Religious and Warrior castes, and how horrible things become when both faction agree upon something. It's rightgeous and violent fury. We see it twice during the Musical:

- the Confrontation
- "Death each and every traitors! I renounce your people's court!

In the end, Valjean convinced him to choose what Javert wanted over what Javert's duty commanded. After this, Javert knew he had put his personal feelings ahead of his duty, and became afraid that.. He could do it again. And that his corrupted nature finally caught up with him, and may do so again in the future...

And it couldn't be allowed.


That's my interpretation of 25th Javert. Yhea, he's not like the original, but it does give a much needed dimension to the character's psyche.

Why does Javert says his personnel motto ("Stars") right after getting a trail on Valjean? It's to remind himself that his path demanded that he keeps to his duty, rather than going after Valjean to satisfy his personal desires of revenge. And where were his duty laid? The dangerous revolutionnaries Amis de l'ABC --> Transition to them

Dr._Demento
2012-02-20, 11:39 PM
You people can't have these discussions when I'm not paying attention.

Character: Javert, but this might just be because he gets more stage time in the musical.

Song: Tough, One Day More, the Confrontation and Do You Hear the People Sing are all epic, but On My Own and Javert's Suicide are much more poignant. I think the finale (what it is called on my soundtrack, it contains the entire last scene in it) is my favorite though, because it has brought tears to my eyes every time I have seen the musical (That is how you crescendo).

Musical Motif: The Police Ditty (as I call it in my head), the very staccato tune that all the officers use (including Javert in his official duties). It was stuck in the back of my head for 3 years before I rediscovered Les Mis (I first saw it when I was around 12).

Final Note: Whenever someone buys A Heart Full of Love as a single on Itunes (or anywhere else), I die a little on the inside. The song is necessary in the musical, but it is an awful, awful song.

Considering my enthusiasm for the musical, it is a shame I haven't read the book, maybe once I finish Wicked...

Janus
2012-02-24, 01:46 AM
Musical Motif: The Police Ditty (as I call it in my head), the very staccato tune that all the officers use (including Javert in his official duties).
Tell me quickly, what is baking?
Who poached what, and why, and where?
Someone answer this good question:
Who made breakfast for Javert!? :smallannoyed:

VanBuren
2012-02-24, 04:29 PM
Javert essay

See, I don't really agree that it made his character better. Javert works, to me at least, because his crusade against Valjean (and all criminals) isn't personal. If such thing existed, Javert would be a Law Elemental.

He's less a man and more a force of nature. He cannot be bought off, bribed, or persuaded. If you follow the law you are Good, if you defy it then you are Evil. That's why his death works as well. Like Valjean at the beginning, Javert has been met with an incident that challenges his entire worldview to its core. A criminal and fugitive from justice spared his life when by all rights he could and should have ended it.

So rather than find some way of addressing the cognitive dissonance of holding Law as an absolute as well as understanding that sometimes circumstances create criminals out of good men. And since the law can no longer be an absolute ideal, neither can Javert continue to exist.

Omergideon
2012-02-24, 06:46 PM
This is a tough question to consider as the Musical is excellent in so many ways.

I think I divide it up into several catergories

Most interesting character: Javert. No questions. His motivations, the internal conflicts and the overall interplay with him and several other characters is fascinating. His suicide is a powerful moment. The very vaguely hinted at backstory is deep and rich without being overwhelming. His personal songs are probably the most conflicted and amazing of the musical, with more aspects of his character revealed than any other, as well as being damn fine songs as well.

Best Person: Valjean for me. As the moral centre of the story, and a perfect tale of redemption he forms perhaps the greatest contrast and counterpoint to Javert one could imagine. The 2 playing against each other form many of the most powerful moments of the play. His eventual end is well deserved and without the moral thread of his story the tale would never work. Of course. Simply put he is the man we all wish we could be.

Best Song: On My Own. It is musically brilliant, and the 10th anniversary version is perhaps the most touching performance on earth. I almost cry like a baby when it is on.

Best Musical Moment: The final harmony before the chorus joins in during the finale. One of the few true harmonies among the singers, and with good performers one of the best notes. And the lyrics are perhaps the purest distillation of one of the messages of the play. "To love another person is to see the face of God".


My opinions really.

The Mad Hatter
2012-02-24, 08:24 PM
Javert is very complex. I am currently playing him in a show. The run's almost over. :smallfrown:

He's a very unlieable dude. Yet he retains that constant flame of passion to the law. It pretty much keeps him alive, the obsession. I myself love Stars....But that's just me.

HeadlessMermaid
2012-02-26, 03:26 AM
I have a question. Is there a DVD of the actual musical, the full performance and not just a concert? I've found only the 10th and 25th anniversary so far, but they are both concerts. (Where everyone's in costume, but still.) I'd prefer an unabridged version, obviously.

Nai_Calus
2012-02-26, 05:54 PM
Not that I know of. As far as I know there's only even one recording of the actual entire thing.

Les Mis isn't my favorite musical, that would be Phantom of the Opera, but I've got a bit of a fondness for it. My favorite song is probably Do You Hear The People Sing and the reprise thereof in the finale.

Mikhailangelo
2012-02-27, 02:20 AM
:smallfrown:Eponine has a sad ending...

That is an understatement.

Played well, that scene always leaves me in floods of tears. I had to put the book down and stare at the wall for several hours after reading it. It's just so... So...

Words do not exist to convey the emotions and heartbreak.

Dienekes
2012-02-27, 08:16 AM
Is it too blasphemous to admit that Eponine is my least favorite character, and while her songs do have a sad melody to them I never cared too much about her personal story arc?

The Mad Hatter
2012-02-27, 05:50 PM
Neither do I. I never liked her arc. The plot was obscenely heartbreaking, but I never could connect with it...Thenadier scares me though. >.<

Cikomyr
2012-02-27, 08:37 PM
Is it too blasphemous to admit that Eponine is my least favorite character, and while her songs do have a sad melody to them I never cared too much about her personal story arc?

I simply disagree. As for worrying about Eponine's feeling, don't worry. She's used to have everybody not caring about her. One more or less won't make the difference. :smallfrown:

Mikhailangelo
2012-02-28, 01:54 PM
I simply disagree. As for worrying about Eponine's feeling, don't worry. She's used to have everybody not caring about her. One more or less won't make the difference. :smallfrown:

This...


Not caring about the arc is completely understandable. I just always feel as though everything about the character is defined in the moment she dies, and when Marius kisses her forehead, not out of love or affection, but bitter sweet pity for her difficult, miserable life... It's just an indescribable scene...

Cikomyr
2012-02-28, 02:32 PM
This...


Not caring about the arc is completely understandable. I just always feel as though everything about the character is defined in the moment she dies, and when Marius kisses her forehead, not out of love or affection, but bitter sweet pity for her difficult, miserable life... It's just an indescribable scene...

To her parents, she was just a lookout for the gang. The moment she stopped playing with their tune, she was reneged.
To Marius, she was just a buddy to hang out with. The moment he found a girl, he didn't cared a fig about her anymore.

She had no friend. No family who genuinely cared intrinsically for her. But she cared for each and everyone of them.

After all... she's always been.. on her own.

Dienekes
2012-02-28, 02:53 PM
To her parents, she was just a lookout for the gang. The moment she stopped playing with their tune, she was reneged.
To Marius, she was just a buddy to hang out with. The moment he found a girl, he didn't cared a fig about her anymore.

She had no friend. No family who genuinely cared intrinsically for her. But she cared for each and everyone of them.

After all... she's always been.. on her own.

I'll be honest I've always found On My Own to just be a bit obsessive and creepy. And then I read the book and found my gut was right. So some guy doesn't notice her, so what that's not so bad.

Now the whole problem with her parents is something I can feel for, but hey she still had it better off than her poor abandoned brother. Though they both end up the same way at the end.

VanBuren
2012-02-28, 04:17 PM
To her parents, she was just a lookout for the gang. The moment she stopped playing with their tune, she was reneged.
To Marius, she was just a buddy to hang out with. The moment he found a girl, he didn't cared a fig about her anymore.

She had no friend. No family who genuinely cared intrinsically for her. But she cared for each and everyone of them.

After all... she's always been.. on her own.

No, I think Marius did care about her... just not in the same way she wanted. When she screams out to scare off Thenardier, he quietly thanks her, and when she turns up at the barricade, his immediate reaction is to tell her that it's dangerous. The reason he seems so indifferent, I think, is because he's just painfully oblivious to her affection. Until it finally clicks in "A little fall of rain" I think he just considers her one of the bros.

death pig
2012-04-21, 06:00 PM
I don't think Marius cared. He saw her as a friend, nothing more.

VanBuren
2012-04-21, 07:06 PM
I don't think Marius cared. He saw her as a friend, nothing more.

And friends clearly can't care about each other.