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View Full Version : Advice needed: Concealed mechanics



Grinner
2012-01-23, 05:00 PM
I've been thinking of writing a d20 Modern horror campaign setting in the spirit of Geist: The Sin-Eaters and lesser-known RPG called Unknown Armies.

I've chosen to draw inspiration from Geist for its theme (second chances) is indirectly tied to my own (death/existentialism).

I've also listed Unknown Armies, since I found it to be beautifully executed structurally. The core rulebook is split into four primary sections. The first represents the first tier of play and describes character creation and basic rules. The second section represents the second tier of play and introduces the player to magic. This continues in the third where magic is expanded upon. Finally, the fourth is reserved for the GM.

The intent is that the player begins by reading only the first section. The GM then introduces content from later chapters as he sees fit. Alternatively, if the GM wants to begin at a later tier of gameplay, the player just reads the appropriate chapters.

I love this idea. Not only is the character's future uncertain but, unlike D&D, so are his means of interacting with the world.

The approach has a number of drawbacks, though. The first is that the surprise from learning the concealed mechanics is good for only a single campaign. Afterwards, the players then know of the mechanics, and the process of exploration loses its appeal. Secondly, and more importantly, it excludes me from the peer review process, PEACH.

This brings me to my point: Do you think the risk of atrocious mechanics is worth the chance for a single, novel player experience?.

DonQuixote
2012-01-23, 05:13 PM
Speaking as someone who's been shanghaied into playing a fair bit of Unknown Armies, I absolutely abhor the system.

You're right--a character's means of interacting with the world are entirely concealed from him. But that is a terrible, terrible thing. It ends up with the entire party just sitting there, waiting for the GM to tell them what happens. Why? Because, after they roll their notice checks, they literally have no idea of what else they could possibly do. There's little to no interactivity, and the primary purpose served by the players is to roll stress checks.

While this may be a good setup for a horror situation--in that you have no idea what is going on--it is absolutely atrocious to play. You end up wanting to fail your stress checks because it's the only way to gain any ability to move the plot along. If you aren't insane, you don't have access to magic, which means that you can do nothing other than look around and hope. And, until someone has magic, you don't even know that you have that option. It's just an inward spiral of frustration.

The one time that I've seen someone use Unknown Armies well, he pretty much threw out all of the rules and ran a free-form roleplay. In fact, I think the only thing that he kept was the madness system.

To summarize! You ask whether the risk of atrocious mechanics is worth the chance for a single, novel player experience. I say that it is not--because, whether or not the mechanics are atrocious, the process of dealing with them will be.

Grinner
2012-01-23, 05:21 PM
To summarize! You ask whether the risk of atrocious mechanics is worth the chance for a single, novel player experience. I say that it is not--because, whether or not the mechanics are atrocious, the process of dealing with them will be.

Then I suppose the campaign itself would need to focus on the plot, as it should anyway.......

I guess what needs to be asked is whether the mechanics really have any point if they're invisible.

DonQuixote
2012-01-23, 05:34 PM
That's what I'm arguing--they don't. The problem with Unknown Armies is that players can only do a limited number of things. Because they can only do those limited number of things, they are kept from doing other things--sometimes, things that they really should be able to do.

In my group of friends/players/DMs, we all always focus on the plot--we cannot optimize to save our lives. The problem is that the invisible mechanics include invisible walls--ones that intrude on a plot.

To quote another member of my group: "Unknown Armies is like telling a story in which you can do anything, so long as you avoid certain keywords. Those keywords include anything written on your character sheet or words appearing in parts of the book that you have not read. If you accidentally say one of those words, you have to stop and fail--I mean, roll a check."

Basically, in our experience, invisible player mechanics are a bad thing. Certainly, enemies and the environment can operate on rules that the players do not know. However, nothing that the players themselves will ever use should be concealed from them at any point.

The one thing that can come up here is magic. Unknown Armies hides magic from Street-level players, and you might want to do the same thing. In such a case, I would recommend that magic follow the exact same rules as other aspects of character actions--look at GURPS, for instance. I would also advise you to not deal with the Unknown Armies charge system, since it's a royal pain in the rear.

Grinner
2012-01-23, 05:49 PM
I would also advise you to not deal with the Unknown Armies charge system, since it's a royal pain in the rear.

Oh, no, I hadn't planned on translating UA mechanics into the d20 system.

What I had planned had been more like your fourth point.



Basically, in our experience, invisible player mechanics are a bad thing. Certainly, enemies and the environment can operate on rules that the players do not know. However, nothing that the players themselves will ever use should be concealed from them at any point.

The players could choose to take feats or skill ranks for the magic system after finding an in-game source of instruction, like an instructor or a book. Then I'd release the exact mechanics to them.