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Candle Jack
2012-01-23, 11:59 PM
Season 2 of the North American series recently premiered and so far it's been really exciting. Mother arrived in Boston and appointed her daughter Izumi as the new head of Boston, promising Aidan freedom in exchange for serving as her second. Josh learned that he accidentally infected Nora with the werewolf curse. Sally, having missed her door, is exploring her ghostly powers, which has led her down some dark paths.

Oddly enough, I've found Sally's subplot to be the most engaging thus far, though that will likely change as Aidan struggles with his new role.

So, anyone watching it?

KillianHawkeye
2012-01-24, 08:42 AM
Wait, that show is a remake? :smallconfused:

Candle Jack
2012-01-24, 12:12 PM
Wait, that show is a remake? :smallconfused:

Yes, it's a remake of the British TV series of the same name, which is airing its last season sometime this year.

Tiki Snakes
2012-01-24, 01:36 PM
I had no idea there was an american version. Any chance of a link to a trailer or something?

Candle Jack
2012-01-24, 01:53 PM
I can link you to the American promos, though they kind of stink. The Canadian promos are way better, but I can't find them online.

Season 1 promo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_0UnJbVAFs)

Season 2 promo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LDX7l1S3_A&feature=related)

The set-up of both series is the same: Aidan (a vegetarian vampire) and Josh (a reluctant werewolf) decide to get a house together so that they can live a more "human" existence. They find out the house is haunted by Sally, a cute ghost. Some of the plotlines are the same, but Season 2 is sharply veering off in its own direction.

Somebloke
2012-01-24, 02:31 PM
Possibly due to my recently watching the American remake of The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, but I can practically feel the trans-Atlantic indignation boiling away inside of me...

Androgeus
2012-01-24, 05:40 PM
Some of the plotlines are the same, but Season 2 is sharply veering off in its own direction.

This was my main problem with Season 1, it just didn't feel like it was being original enough. I realise that this is unavoidable with a remake, but I liked some of the original stuff they did do, introducing Josh's sister and the episode where they go to his parent's house I though were good, and I liked the Dutch.

My only other major gripe I can remember was having super powered vampires, I don't know why though. Maybe because it makes vampirism have too much of an upside(blood addiction for immortality vs. blood addiction for immortality, super speed and hypnosis powers (I think that's all they had)).
A minor gripe I just remembered, Aidan being about 200 years old. I feel it lessens the threat on vampires. Although having a main charater who fought in the war of independence must be a good point in an American's book :smalltongue:. Oh and Aidan being a nurse, it just feels a bit high profile, and I have no idea when he managed to do the training.

Other than that it was good TV, if I hadn't already seen the Original I would have definitely liked it with no reservations.

I also hope we see some vampire hunters in Remake, the vampire community needs more than just mob law to keep it in check.

Yora
2012-01-24, 06:11 PM
Can't you just tell american audiences that they see an american movie and not mention that it's from somewhere else?
Would be far less expensive and not any more stupid.

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lco7ihnwlo1qb8m44o1_400.png

Candle Jack
2012-01-24, 06:18 PM
My only other major gripe I can remember was having super powered vampires, I don't know why though. Maybe because it makes vampirism have too much of an upside(blood addiction for immortality vs. blood addiction for immortality, super speed and hypnosis powers (I think that's all they had)).

Vampirism does seem like a pretty good deal, though there are still drawbacks. They do have weaknesses, and while vampires are definitely a step above most mortals, they're not so powerful that they are beyond a human's ability to slay. Had that one cop thought to decapitate Aidan while he was injured, he could have died there. And on the right day of the month, even elder vampires are no match for werewolves.

The only vampire who I would call "superhuman" is Mother, which is probably why all the other vampires tremble in her presence.


Can't you just tell american audiences that they see an american movie and not mention that it's from somewhere else?

I don't follow. Also, I'm Canadian.

Yora
2012-01-24, 06:24 PM
The USA are the only country I ever heard of that makes remakes of movies and TV shows just months later because americans wouldn't watch anything that wasn't made there.

...in America!

The craziest case would probably be Vanilla Sky, which was written by the same people who made the original movie four years before and even has some of the same actors.

...in America!

dehro
2012-01-24, 06:43 PM
The USA are the only country I ever heard of that makes remakes of movies and TV shows just months later because americans wouldn't watch anything that wasn't made there.

...in America!

The craziest case would probably be Vanilla Sky, which was written by the same people who made the original movie four years before and even has some of the same actors.

...in America!

try "death at a funeral"..with Peter Dinklage acting in both versions of the movie... wtfrack? or "les visiteurs" remade with the same 2 main protagonists, Jean Reno and Christian Clavier...
or the commentary to the meerkat manor series of BBC documentaries..that was "dubbed" by Sean Astin..apparently a more agreable accent than the british Bill Nighy. :smallconfused::smallconfused:
I've said it before about being human and about movies in general...it makes no sense at all..all it does to me is to make me think americans are lazy and unwilling to make the bare minimum intellectual effort needed to understand a gag about Barry Island because they're unfamiliar with certain aspects of british humour, or with geography in general. the rationale behind remaking a product that was made in your own fricking language (!!!)...aside from the obvious financial return that comes from remaking something that you know to be a tried and tested hit and slapping a few local faces and names to it... well..it's just moronic.

as for being human in particular... I refuse to watch the remake... which is why probably my perception of what little I've been exposed to about it is rather skewered. it tells me they've beefed it up, recruited a couple of baywatch lookalikes, added a bit of standard american tv-series content (dozen-a-dime subplots that you can find just as well in any of the other vampire-centered american shows..it all tainted by spoonfulls of Anne Rice).. thereby removing all the spark, intelligence, wit and quirkyness that the original version has.
of course I AM biased, and if you tell me I'm wrong I'll take your word for it..and patiently wait for the next season of the original show to air.

Arcane_Secrets
2012-01-24, 08:47 PM
Season 2 of the North American series recently premiered and so far it's been really exciting. Mother arrived in Boston and appointed her daughter Izumi as the new head of Boston, promising Aidan freedom in exchange for serving as her second. Josh learned that he accidentally infected Nora with the werewolf curse. Sally, having missed her door, is exploring her ghostly powers, which has led her down some dark paths.

Oddly enough, I've found Sally's subplot to be the most engaging thus far, though that will likely change as Aidan struggles with his new role.

So, anyone watching it?

Definitely. I really wonder how the plot with Nora is going to turn out given that she basically one-shotted Hegemon and to put it mildly, when the vampires figure that out they're going to take reprisals in the worst possible way?

Goosefeather
2012-01-24, 09:32 PM
You have to be careful with 'veering off in its own direction', though. Case in point, Life on Mars. The original (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIMP6-KBSCs&feature=related)is one of my absolute favourite shows ever (kind of a magic-realism sci-fi time-travel cop drama and oh, just watch it already, people!), but the US remake absolutely butchered it by completely changing the original ending (which I won't spoil here because you really have to see it for yourself) to:
Surprise! They're all actually in a spaceship actually going to actual Mars, and the whole show was just virtual-reality on-flight entertainment! I mean, honestly, could you be any more literal-minded?

I haven't seen the remake of Being Human because, well, frankly, I don't see the need. I'm happy with the original, and I don't have any desire to see an Americanised version of it. I just don't like the whole culture of remaking things for a US audience - a series is chosen for remaking because of its popularity, right? Which implies it was good as it already was. It smacks of either cultural apathy and laziness on the part of its new audience, who will panic if all is not cozy-cozy-comfort-zone, or, what I think more likely, a rather patronising attitude on the part of network executives who assume this attitude in their US audience, and try to spoon-feed them everything. And with British shows, you don't even have the (admittedly weak) excuse of a language-barrier!

Ugh, rant over! Sorry, it's just one of those subjects that tends to wind me up... I'm not trying to belittle anyone who enjoys the remake, I just get slightly irked by this kind of enforced cultural normalisation!

dehro
2012-01-25, 03:28 AM
I hear you

Candle Jack
2012-01-30, 11:22 PM
Oof. That was one hell of a Mood Whiplash in that last episode. Sally's teasing of Josh and Aidan had me in stitches, and then suddenly Julia walks in and … boom. Damn, this show likes to dial the angst to eleven.

Who would have guessed that Aidan's Julia …

... would also be Josh's Julia?

An Enemy Spy
2012-01-31, 03:39 PM
I can see why they would remake TV shows over here. One of my favorite shows ever is Blackadder, but only six episodes a series? That's criminal! That's beyond criminal! I can only enjoy the adventures of Captain Blackadder, Lt. George and Private Baldrick for six freaking episodes? I don't know how you brits can stand it.
I don't know if all british shows are like this, but that one in particular really makes me sad.
In America, a show like that would come and go and be forgotten because six episodes doesn't constitute even half a season over here. So to fit an American audience, a show has to remade and expanded so the entire series lasts more than a month and a half.

Lord Seth
2012-01-31, 04:51 PM
I just don't like the whole culture of remaking things for a US audience - a series is chosen for remaking because of its popularity, right? Which implies it was good as it already was. It smacks of either cultural apathy and laziness on the part of its new audience, who will panic if all is not cozy-cozy-comfort-zone, or, what I think more likely, a rather patronising attitude on the part of network executives who assume this attitude in their US audience, and try to spoon-feed them everything. And with British shows, you don't even have the (admittedly weak) excuse of a language-barrier!

Ugh, rant over! Sorry, it's just one of those subjects that tends to wind me up... I'm not trying to belittle anyone who enjoys the remake, I just get slightly irked by this kind of enforced cultural normalisation!I think the remaking is less about trying to make it more culturally acceptable and more about the number of episodes. Let's take The Office, which has been the most successful non-reality British-to-American adaptation in recent memory (the most successful British-to-American adaptation, period, is either All in the Family or American Idol). Do you think it would have been anywhere near as profitable if they had been restricted to only 14 episodes rather than the 100+ that are running in syndication?

Goosefeather
2012-01-31, 06:09 PM
I can see why they would remake TV shows over here. One of my favorite shows ever is Blackadder, but only six episodes a series? That's criminal! That's beyond criminal! I can only enjoy the adventures of Captain Blackadder, Lt. George and Private Baldrick for six freaking episodes? I don't know how you brits can stand it.
I don't know if all british shows are like this, but that one in particular really makes me sad.
In America, a show like that would come and go and be forgotten because six episodes doesn't constitute even half a season over here. So to fit an American audience, a show has to remade and expanded so the entire series lasts more than a month and a half.

On the other hand, British brevity means that shows don't have time to become stale. I think 'being left wanting more' is preferable to seeing a show you like slowly become formulaic and flanderised, and is part of the reason why shows such as Fawlty Towers and Blackadder are looked back upon so fondly. Similarly, Black Books, Father Ted, Peep Show, Sherlock, Life on Mars, Red Dwarf, The Young Ones, and so on and so forth. Also, it helps prevent the use of filler to pad out a series, and the inevitable running out of ideas (see the number of forgettable or even downright crappy Simpson episodes, for example).

Compare Firefly and Buffy, for example, and their respective followings.

I can think of plenty of US shows that could stand some judicious editing and would be greatly improved were they more concise - Heroes is a prominent example. Scrubs should have been cut off long before it was. Lost needed a far quicker wrap-up. How I Met Your Mother is dragging terribly, with the last couple of seasons seeing a noticeable dip in quality. Buffy peaked in seasons 3 and 4. Prisonbreak should have stopped at two seasons.

'Longer series -> more profit' strikes me as beneficial for the makers, not the viewers, as it risks emphasising quantity over quality.

The above is a generalisation, I admit - Babylon 5, for example, planned out its arcing story well enough that the long seasons were justified and worked - and I also apologise for the TVtropes references :smalltongue:

Still, the most recent American show I've really, properly, enjoyed, Game of Thrones, was a 10 episode season, and I think it would have suffered had it been much longer (and yes, I've read the book, yes, the series leaves some stuff out, but that's for the best when changing media in this way).

P.S. I cannot decide which of these two recent revelations (http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/16642189) is more sacrilegious (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-16796364)!

dehro
2012-01-31, 06:23 PM
I'd rather rewatch blackadder 10 times than watch a three times longer bastardisation of it. the same goes for being human, misfits and others..

Lord Seth
2012-01-31, 06:32 PM
Personally, I'd much rather a show go on for too long than be too short. A show with 10 episodes that's good the whole way through has 10 episodes I'd like to watch. A show with 60 episodes that's good only the first 2/3 of the way through has 40 episodes I'd like to watch.

And that's assuming that there is a lower quality. If both shows are of equal quality, you can bet I'll prefer the one that has 60 episodes over the one that has 10.
P.S. I cannot decide which of these two recent revelations (http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/16642189) is more sacrilegious (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-16796364)!I don't see how either one is bad. They're remaking a show. And...so? If the remake turns out to be bad, sure, you can get a bit upset then, but the mere fact they're remaking them is hardly something to get upset about.

Goosefeather
2012-01-31, 08:14 PM
It smacks of 'well gosh, these are good, but wouldn't they be so much better if they were American!', a self-centred, culturally blind worldview, with the consequent unfortunate implication of an arrogant nation convinced of its own superiority, seemingly uncomfortable with non-US media just because it's non-US in origin.

And yes, I think it is somewhat sacrilegious to take a character such as Sherlock Holmes, who is quintessentially British, and move him to New York - especially when done so to cynically cash in on the popularity of a BBC show excellent in its own right. It's like Americanising James Bond, Doctor Who, Harry Potter, Jeeves and Wooster, Robin Hood, King Arthur - or for a couple of non-Brit examples, Poirot or Asterix... Imagine moving Spiderman to London to make him more palatable to the British population, or moving the Simpsons to Liverpool...

There is just no need for these remakes. 'Difficulties with British accents' is a terrible excuse (hopefully I don't need to expound on why), which just leaves us with this need for cultural homogenisation.

In my opinion, if a foreign show is a little outside your cultural comfort zone, you should make the effort to expand your own horizons a little, rather than expecting everything to be brought to you and spoon-fed from an all-American plate.


As to the point about long/short series, I guess that's personal preference, on which we'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I enjoy a show that knows when to stop before it outstays its welcome to one dragged on and on, jumping sharks and lingering beyond its natural life span. The need for more and more and more just strikes me as, well, a very stereotypically consumerist American attitude. Brevity is the soul of wit, and knowing when to stop is a virtue. Life is unfortunately short, and I would rather watch several concise, high quality shows than a single overly-long show padded with filler and drawn out to make more money.

An Enemy Spy
2012-01-31, 08:56 PM
There's a difference between a show that knows when to quit and a show that's over just as you were beginning to like it.
If my favorite show were only 14 episodes long, I wouldn't be happy it ended before things got bad, I'd feel cheated that they had such a good show starting to go and then just quit.

Goosefeather
2012-01-31, 09:33 PM
Perhaps, but I don't see remaking it as the solution. Especially when the remake is liable to neglect what made the original great in the first place.

Firefly was great, and 14 episodes long.

Is the solution to remake it with an all-new cast? All British, of course, and I know it's set in space but still, could we make it feel just a little bit less American? Oh, and make sure to prettify up this new cast - they won't have the quirkiness or the personality of the original actors but dammit, we can make them generically attractive. Maybe let's change a few of those plot points that were just too subtle. Let's make Jayne gay, while we're at it. Not that there's anything wrong with straight people, but you know, we have to stay on the right side of the British non-religious public.* Ratings, you understand... Oh, and we need to insert more British pop-culture references. You know, so the audience don't feel alienated. Obviously the two dominant world powers which would form the Alliance have to be Britain and China, not the USA and China. Whaddya mean, you liked the original better? This is just as good, it's just Britisher!

It looks absolutely ridiculous reversed, and yet this is basically what the American remake culture implies. It feels frankly insulting, to be honest.

So the original was too short for your taste, and you want more of it. Problem is, once it goes through this process, it's not the same show any more. It's may push many of the same buttons as before but it's missing the heart of what made the original great.

* See the Skins remake which gratuitously turned the gay character into a lesbian, which is for some reason more 'acceptable'.

Serpentine
2012-01-31, 09:48 PM
I also find the USofAmerican insistence at redoing everything that has had any success anywhere else solely to make it Merikan! ridiculous and obnoxious.

However, in this case, I find the similarities and differences quite interesting. There were quite a few changes made that took the series in a very different direction. I think, overall, I like the UK one better - better (less attractive 9.9) actors, more humour, overall better plot choices - but the US one did several things I like more - the ghost's introduction, in particular, iirc - and I think it's a solid show in its own right.

Does anyone else who's seen both versions think the US season 1 finale was a bit of a slap in the face/inside joke at the expense of people who have seen the UK version?
All the while, as it was building up, I was getting frustrated, thinking that the US version was dumbing it down, making it way too obvious what the werewolf was going to do, spelling everything out... and then they yank the rug right out from underneath and make it a double bluff.
I was quite impressed, but also incredibly frustrated: the point where the werewolf took ownership of his beast, and conciously used it was a seriously major character development point for him, and the US version has just completely deprived him of it. What's more, his speech at the end was just golden: (thank you wikiquote) "Haven't you worked it out yet? Humanity is about love, and sacrifice. This doesn't rob me of my humanity... It proves it."

An Enemy Spy
2012-01-31, 09:58 PM
Perhaps, but I don't see remaking it as the solution. Especially when the remake is liable to neglect what made the original great in the first place.

Firefly was great, and 14 episodes long.

Is the solution to remake it with an all-new cast? All British, of course, and I know it's set in space but still, could we make it feel just a little bit less American? Oh, and make sure to prettify up this new cast - they won't have the quirkiness or the personality of the original actors but dammit, we can make them generically attractive. Maybe let's change a few of those plot points that were just too subtle. Let's make Jayne gay, while we're at it. Not that there's anything wrong with straight people, but you know, we have to stay on the right side of the British non-religious public.* Ratings, you understand... Oh, and we need to insert more British pop-culture references. You know, so the audience don't feel alienated. Obviously the two dominant world powers which would form the Alliance have to be Britain and China, not the USA and China. Whaddya mean, you liked the original better? This is just as good, it's just Britisher!

It looks absolutely ridiculous reversed, and yet this is basically what the American remake culture implies. It feels frankly insulting, to be honest.

So the original was too short for your taste, and you want more of it. Problem is, once it goes through this process, it's not the same show any more. It's may push many of the same buttons as before but it's missing the heart of what made the original great.

* See the Skins remake which gratuitously turned the gay character into a lesbian, which is for some reason more 'acceptable'.

I wouldn't know. I don't watch any of those shows anyway. The only American remake I ever watch is The Office, and only occasionally.

Goosefeather
2012-01-31, 10:35 PM
I wouldn't know. I don't watch any of those shows anyway. The only American remake I ever watch is The Office, and only occasionally.

Haha, fair enough, and my tirade wasn't directed at you - it's just one of those subjects on which I can't seem to stop myself once I get started!

From what I hear, the remake of The Office is the exception which proves the rule, and gets a pass for being good on its own merits, surviving the changes in style and feel from the original. I should probably get round to checking it out at some point! (On the other hand, it might just rile me up regardless :smalltongue:)

Lord Seth
2012-01-31, 10:54 PM
And yes, I think it is somewhat sacrilegious to take a character such as Sherlock Holmes, who is quintessentially British, and move him to New York - especially when done so to cynically cash in on the popularity of a BBC show excellent in its own right.Honestly, I don't see Holmes as any more "quintessentially" British than he is "quintessentially" in the 18th/19th century. I think it's actually a pretty interesting idea to set him in different places and/or different times...which is kind of what the British series was doing anyway. Of course, as always, a lot depends on execution, and it's hard to judge that based on...a pilot that hasn't even been made yet.

And while it is almost certainly a cash-in (though I don't see how it's "cynical"), that's true about any adaptation. And I'm not just talking about British-to-American stuff here, I'm talking about all adaptations. The Battlestar Galactica remake was a cash-in on the original. The Harry Potter movies were a cash-in on the books. Game of Thrones was a cash-in on A Song of Ice and Fire. The Dark Knight was a cash-in on Batman's general popularity. Angel was a cash-in on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Heck, the Sherlock series itself is a cash-in on the original Sherlock Holmes stories!


Imagine moving Spiderman to London to make him more palatable to the British population,Actually, they kind of did that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man_(Toei)). Okay, they didn't move it to Britain, but they did move it to another country.


or moving the Simpsons to Liverpool...Might be interesting. I doubt they'd be able to get the rights, though.


There is just no need for these remakes. 'Difficulties with British accents' is a terrible excuse (hopefully I don't need to expound on why), which just leaves us with this need for cultural homogenisation.And as I've explained, I believe the reason for remakes like The Office has far less to do with accent problems or homogenization and far more to do with both television business models and audience expectations requiring a higher number of episodes.
There's a difference between a show that knows when to quit and a show that's over just as you were beginning to like it.
If my favorite show were only 14 episodes long, I wouldn't be happy it ended before things got bad, I'd feel cheated that they had such a good show starting to go and then just quit.Exactly. People always talk about a show "leaving the audience wanting more" as a good thing...I don't. The shows I think ended at the right times (didn't end too soon or too late) were shows that didn't leave me thinking like that. I thought Monk, Star Trek: The Next Generation, and The Wire are shows that stand out as ending at just the right time. I didn't feel they had outstayed their welcome nor did I think they should've gone on for longer.

And, heck, even a decline in quality doesn't necessarily mean the longevity itself is to blame. There were a number of things I didn't like about Avatar: The Last Airbender's third and final season, but I don't think that came about because it was lasting too long.

Perhaps, but I don't see remaking it as the solution. Especially when the remake is liable to neglect what made the original great in the first place.

Firefly was great, and 14 episodes long.

Is the solution to remake it with an all-new cast? All British, of course, and I know it's set in space but still, could we make it feel just a little bit less American? Oh, and make sure to prettify up this new cast - they won't have the quirkiness or the personality of the original actors but dammit, we can make them generically attractive. Maybe let's change a few of those plot points that were just too subtle. Let's make Jayne gay, while we're at it. Not that there's anything wrong with straight people, but you know, we have to stay on the right side of the British non-religious public.* Ratings, you understand... Oh, and we need to insert more British pop-culture references. You know, so the audience don't feel alienated. Obviously the two dominant world powers which would form the Alliance have to be Britain and China, not the USA and China. Whaddya mean, you liked the original better? This is just as good, it's just Britisher!

It looks absolutely ridiculous reversed, and yet this is basically what the American remake culture implies. It feels frankly insulting, to be honest.Maybe it's just me, but I didn't see anything particularly ridiculous about it. It looked like the general things that any adaptation goes through, whether it be moving from one country to another, one time to another (e.g. a show/film from the 70's or 80's being remade in the present day), or one medium to another. I can't really say whether I'd like the original or the new one more (for the record though, I'm not particularly into Firefly) until I could actually see the ideas in execution, however.

There would need to be a decent reason why they switched it from the US and China to the UK and China, though. If I had to pick a country to replace the US with there, India actually might make the most sense, for the same reasons as China: Big country, high population, and fast-growing economy. The problem is that doing that could look like some kind of political statement ("the US and other Western countries had better shape up or those Asians will take our jobs!") and you'd have to try to somehow make it more, well, Indian. It'd be tough to try to make out India and China as the biggest powers if your main characters are all speaking English.

That random thought aside, if someone could think of a plausible reason for it to be the UK and China, it could be interesting. But in truth, if you really want to try to drop the US/China bit of it to focus more on Britain, you'd probably have to rethink the backstory a bit more than "okay, so it's Britain and China, not the US and China".


So the original was too short for your taste, and you want more of it. Problem is, once it goes through this process, it's not the same show any more. It's may push many of the same buttons as before but it's missing the heart of what made the original great.I think you're confusing two issues here. The comment was saying that some shows they think should have kept going (and not in a "it's good they left you wanting more" way), which was addressing the issue of whether it's better for shows to be short or long (which, in my view, is a hopelessly vague question...it simply depends far too much on the individual show). Now you're moving it into the separate category of remakes. Saying "I think Firefly ended too early and wish it had kept going" is very different from "I wish Firefly would be remade."

Mo_the_Hawked
2012-01-31, 11:27 PM
On topic I enjoy the American version of Being Human. About the same time that Being Human was being advertised I had just found the British version on BBC America I avoided watching it because I wanted to experience the Sci-Fi version with a clean palate. Also I don't really care for vampires.

In regards to the debate on the merits of 'Americanizing' foreign, for lack of better term, programs. It's isn't just a question of accents, which can be difficult to dechiper and I do watch a coniderable amount of specifically british programing, but slang and turns of phrase expecially involving youths. Hell American programs feature an awful lot homogenized accents and watered down phrases. A new show recently started on BBC America called The Fades and it is damn hard to understand between the slang and accent and this doesn't even account for the cultural and socialogical differences that make certain plot and characterazations simply moot.

A particular favorite of mine is a British show called MisFits. Love the show, but i've had to watch certain parts with captioning on. Then I had to look up what ASBOs where, as well as why calling someone a 'chav' was an insult. Somethings are simply lost in translation.

Of couse they also convert shows to make money. Alot of Americans that would like to watch programs from other nations simply download them before they could imported, and nobody makes money on that.

Hopeless
2012-02-01, 04:17 AM
Imagine moving Spiderman to London to make him more palatable to the British population, or moving the Simpsons to Liverpool...

Oh now thats an interesting comment!

I can just see Captain Britain being played by someone with the literal stick up his ass and british stereotypical uppercrust behaviour, spiderman could easily be played by an Indian whose actually a gadgeteer whose powers are derived mostly from devices such as a webbing gun with his danger sense being his one true power being based around his religious tendencies throwing in Bollywood styled flashbacks as a sign he's getting a premonition!

Sorry thought No Heroics could have been better but at least it was made!

Hopeless
2012-02-01, 04:31 AM
When you talk about Firefly remakes I keep getting visions of Traveller 2300ad where the french have the upper hand.


The dominant power, both on Earth and in space, is the Third French Empire, which escaped the nuclear war relatively unscathed by abandoning its NATO allies at the start of the war, giving it a head-start in the technology race. Competing powers include the United Kingdom, Manchuria, Germany, and an alliance of Australia and the reduced United States of America, all of which control certain extrasolar planets themselves. There are three major lanes through known space, called Arms, named after the nations which dominate them (the French Arm, The American Arm and the Chinese Arm). Lesser routes leading off the arms are called "Fingers".

So rather than the US and China given current events it would be the European Union (not including the UK and perhaps not the Czechs) competing with the Chinese and the US trying to keep up and the British trying to keep Argentina from taking back the Falklands (again!) this time an actual colony out in space that is being used as a neutral port so they can boost their economy via trading concerns however the Argentinians having nearer colonies believe it should rightfully belong to them as the nearest British colony is much farther away, dear god this could turn into a Deep Space Nine variant!!!

Sorry got off the topic but thought with Mongoose about to release their version of this I couldn't help wondering if a Tv series version of Firefly over here wouldn't work better using current events.

And yes I think Moffatt should probably help write that too!

Dr. Simon
2012-02-01, 05:49 AM
or the commentary to the meerkat manor series of BBC documentaries..that was "dubbed" by Sean Astin..apparently a more agreable accent than the british Bill Nighy. :smallconfused::smallconfused:.

Maybe it's a Sam Gamgee thing? Nighy played him in the BBC audio drama of Lord of the Rings and Astin, of course, in the Peter Jackson films. :smalltongue:

dehro
2012-02-01, 06:00 AM
Honestly, I don't see Holmes as any more "quintessentially" British than he is "quintessentially" in the 18th/19th century.
seriously? what have you been reading?


Might be interesting. I doubt they'd be able to get the rights, though.
ok..now I know you're basically just saying things in an effort not to concede a point.


but slang and turns of phrase expecially involving youths. Hell American programs feature an awful lot homogenized accents and watered down phrases.
let me reply to you by quoting what Lord Vetinari has written (upside down) in the scorpion pit he reserves for mimes:
LEARN THE WORDS!


A particular favorite of mine is a British show called MisFits. Love the show, but i've had to watch certain parts with captioning on. Then I had to look up what ASBOs where, as well as why calling someone a 'chav' was an insult.
and doesn't it make you feel all warm and fuzzy when you learn new things?
(love the show btw)
I've spent most of my first year in England watching the TV with subtitles on, to help with accents I was unfamiliar with...and now I can almost always do without...and I too learned about ASBOs through the TV.
what is so bad about expanding one's horizons?

I still think it's mostly a cultural issue, and that the commercial strategy behind remaking perfectly sensible shows and movies is a consequence, and not a cause of the issue.
a TV channel would spend much less to acquire the original product (one that has been tried and tested succesfully) than it would cost to buy the remade version of it..especially if it consists in many more episodes. all that does is to spiral costs upwards.
the very arguments (lenght, "slang"..cultural divide..) to support americanizing a show seem to me rather lame excuses for it..to try and justify a profound intellectual laziness from the viewer's part.. whether this lazyness is a real thing or just something the management believes in and ends up fostering, I don't know.
if it really were an issue of the general public losing things in translation..shouldn't this be true the other way around as well?
when have you ever heard european (by which I mean non-english-speakers) public lament that the american shows are full of things that are alien to our culture and therefore incomprehensible?
what does a Greek know about pleading the fifth? an Italian has no concept of judges and DAs being elected, nor do we have the same procedures in health and safety, the school system is different, the USA taxes are entirely alien..as are the differing aspects between federal law and state law, which a Frenchman or a Dutchman might not grasp, and let's not even start talking about bikers gangs or gangs in general.. or the difference between jocks and geeks.. sport scholarships? never heard of...
yet all these things are routinely spoonfed to us by american shows..we accept this, understand the words and cultural differences, or look them up if we don't get them outright. in short, we learn!
what's so hard about it that americans can't seem to do this..or should be excused from it?
was the UK movie "death at a funeral" really so hard to grasp that it needed "translation"?

sorry, but no.. that's like saying that ignorance of the law is a mitigating circumstance instead of an aggravating one
"american public wouldn't get it" is not an acceptable excuse/reason for remaking a movie or a tv show. if they really wouldn't get it, then maybe that movie or tv show just isn't for them...

length... that's mostly a matter of personal taste..if it was just that though, there are plenty of american shows that last several seasons, all rather long and full of episodes..they're good shows..if someone prefers to watch a show with a longer development than one comprised of only 7-8 episodes per season.. by all means, watch those..there's plenty of choice...I do so myself (TBBT, Chuck, Babylon 5...). It doesn't mean every other show MUST be "normalized" to the same standard. It's not like there aren't enough USA-produced quality shows (to USA length standards) to fill just about any channel's programming without having to resort to watering down or completely rewriting imported stuff.

whenever I see or hear about hollywood remaking something that was fairly recent or didn't need an actual remake on account of being in english in the first place..I can't help but think there's a big, big part of "we can do it better/bigger" playing.. some sort of misguided national pride that in this particular instance is doing nothing but enhance and feed a cultural lazyness that has no reason to be...and frankly, from a purely viewers' pov, at times it grates to the point of being insulting. I'm sure the actors and producers of the original stuff are paid well enough not to be insulted..but..well..
maybe it's unreasonable, but it's massively annoying..and I'm glad to see I'm not the only person of this opinion.

Lord Seth
2012-02-01, 09:57 AM
seriously? what have you been reading?Yes, I'm serious. I simply don't see him as more "quintessentially" British than "quintessentially" a late 18th/early 19th century character. Are they both important? Of course! But if one can be adjusted, I don't see adjusting the other at a problem.


ok..now I know you're basically just saying things in an effort not to concede a point.I can assure you that that is not true.


a TV channel would spend much less to acquire the original product (one that has been tried and tested succesfully) than it would cost to buy the remade version of it..especially if it consists in many more episodes. all that does is to spiral costs upwards.By that logic, why would a TV channel ever make a new series, ever? Why not just show nothing but reruns?

the very arguments (lenght, "slang"..cultural divide..) to support americanizing a show seem to me rather lame excuses for it..How is length a lame reason?


It's not like there aren't enough USA-produced quality shows (to USA length standards) to fill just about any channel's programming without having to resort to watering down or completely rewriting imported stuff.The issue here is that it's not them doing a remake in addition to the original stuff, it's them doing it as part of it.

To better clarify, CBS tends to premiere maybe around 3 new dramas at the start of each season. If they do pick up this show, then it'd be 1 remake and 2 new shows (assuming none of them are spin-offs or a remake of something else...for example, their remake of Hawaii Five-O is in its second season--though I doubt they'd be doing more than one remake or adaptation). If they don't, then it's 3 new shows (again, assuming none of them are spin-offs or a remake of something else).

So it's not really a case of "we're making a bunch of shows, let's make this one too" and more a case of "we're making a bunch of shows, and this remake is one of them."

Inglenook
2012-02-06, 03:30 PM
While I don't agree with the "Americanization" of foreign entertainment in general, I think it's a disservice to yourself and the actors involved to disregard such a work solely because it's been Americanized.

Let the Right One In was excellent, but Let Me In was pretty good as well. Ditto Infernal Affairs/The Departed, [REC]/Quarantine, The Office/The Office (at least the first few seasons), etc. etc.

There does need to be a bigger push to encourage Americans to watch foreign media, but hating on the works themselves (especially on the basis of their remake status alone) isn't going to solve much. :smallfrown: I think it helps to think of an original and a remake as two entirely separate animals, and one shouldn't be judged by the other.

I for one enjoy both versions of Being Human. The Canadian version is well-acted with a cohesive narrative and flawed but enjoyable characters—not to mention the best show that SyFy (or whatever they're calling it now) has ever ran. Maybe part of my soul is still dead after seeing what Heroes turned into, but … I'll take it! :smallcool:

dehro
2012-02-06, 06:51 PM
when I heard about the whole remake thing, I checked out what material I could find online...putting it bluntly, aside of the disliking americanisation for the sake of it, I also didn't like the look of their faces... I'm sure they have their good points, all 3 of them, but to me, on pure face value, they looked like your average Baywatch-style recruits drafted mostly because they look cool with the proper make-up.
it put me off watching it instantly..also what little I've heard about the plots and other characters so far...
with names that remind me straight away of some anne rice/vampire the masquerade rip off... I don't know, really... I admit I am prejudiced in this particular case.

Inglenook
2012-02-06, 08:29 PM
I suppose they are all pretty, but they're all also good actors. Sally (the ghost) might be the weakest of the three, but even she is very competent.

As far as the plots, I think 95% of the season one plots were lifted directly from the British series, but it looks like season two might be diverging a little bit. Dunno what you mean about the names, though. The only one that sounds stereotypically vampirey is Bishop; the rest are common names: Josh, Julia, Sally, Aiden, Nora, Rebecca, Danny, Bridget, etc. :smallconfused:

Prejudices are made to be overcome! :smallbiggrin:

Lord Seth
2012-02-06, 08:56 PM
It is kind of funny for people to refer to Being Human as an Americanization when it's produced by a Canadian company.

dehro
2012-02-07, 02:21 AM
It is kind of funny for people to refer to Being Human as an Americanization when it's produced by a Canadian company.

genuine question, no sarcasm intended.. can you tell the difference?

Lord Seth
2012-02-07, 02:26 AM
genuine question, no sarcasm intended.. can you tell the difference?I haven't actually seen Being Human, so I really have no idea.

Ninjadeadbeard
2012-02-07, 02:53 AM
Haven't seen American-Being Human. Won't though. The original was a wonderful show, with a wonderful cast, and it kept me on the edge of my seat for the whole time it was on. I'm an American here, and I can say without a doubt I do not want to see remakes of classic British shows. Blackadder is perfect as is. Doctor Who is perfect as is.

Sherlock Holmes? He's too big to be just British. Holmes belongs to collective human culture. And in any case, they already did a Sherlock show here. They just called it "House" and gave the part to George IV (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092324/). :smalltongue:

Omergideon
2012-02-07, 06:33 AM
I've been watching the whole of Being Human, both English (just started Series 4. Twas decent) and American. I like both. The American one cartainly has some different elements, new plots and ideas. Enough to call it a noticably different show with it's own identity. But I think the story, characters and action of the remake all combines to make it a worthwhile watch. It also does have a different feel to many american shows I have seen, making it something new in that way as well.

But on the general topic, I do not mind them doing a remake. Or a spin off. I mean Law and Order spun off for the UK and while, yes, they did adapt many of the original plots they have made it a good show. Do I consider it disrespectful to the original? Hardly. Sometimes a premise would work in many ways and somebody wants to do their own story based off the premise. And so long as they tell a good story with that premise they should be free to remake anything they want IMO.

It'w when you do a shot for shot remake, just with different names or references that it becomes stupid americanisation/britishisation/chineseification etc.

Candle Jack
2012-02-08, 01:19 AM
Does anyone else who's seen both versions think the US season 1 finale was a bit of a slap in the face/inside joke at the expense of people who have seen the UK version?

I think it was the right move, as up until the end of the season the remake had been largely following in the original series' footsteps a little too closely. It was a smart move to veer away from the plot of the original.


I was quite impressed, but also incredibly frustrated: the point where the werewolf took ownership of his beast, and conciously used it was a seriously major character development point for him, and the US version has just completely deprived him of it. What's more, his speech at the end was just golden: (thank you wikiquote) "Haven't you worked it out yet? Humanity is about love, and sacrifice. This doesn't rob me of my humanity... It proves it."

Therein lies a key difference between George and Josh; the former made peace with his lycanthropy, but for Josh, it will never be anything except a curse. By letting Aidan take on Bishop by himself, it was a much more personal confrontation and it set up the storyline for the second season.

Plus, we didn't have to watch Bishop get torn apart by a laughable Muppet werewolf.

Serpentine
2012-02-08, 04:42 PM
Ahhhhh yes, that's right. I knew there were things I flat-out liked more about the American* version: the effects are soooooo much better.

But with that specific bit: I guess, but I adored the UK ending so much that it just almost hurt to see the American one go that way.


*Canadia's in America :smalltongue:

Candle Jack
2012-02-14, 12:27 AM
So, I guess this show got renewed for a third season. Huzzah for the shopkeep and whatnot.

Y'know, having watched tonight's episode, I'm not sure that Sally's "grim reaper" is actually evil. The last two times it's showed up, its presence either stopped Sally from possessing that kid or knocked her spirit out of that poor girl.

The purebred werewolf twins, however, are doing a wonderful job out of corrupting both Josh and Nora. They're complete *****, and if Josh had any sense, he'd cut off all contact with them.

I didn't care for that sub-plot with Nora's ex, though. He just kind of showed up out of the middle of nowhere. And the other sub-plot with Josh's ex seems to have been dropped.

Wardog
2012-02-17, 09:32 PM
In regards to the debate on the merits of 'Americanizing' foreign, for lack of better term, programs. It's isn't just a question of accents, which can be difficult to dechiper and I do watch a coniderable amount of specifically british programing, but slang and turns of phrase expecially involving youths. Hell American programs feature an awful lot homogenized accents and watered down phrases. A new show recently started on BBC America called The Fades and it is damn hard to understand between the slang and accent and this doesn't even account for the cultural and socialogical differences that make certain plot and characterazations simply moot.

A particular favorite of mine is a British show called MisFits. Love the show, but i've had to watch certain parts with captioning on. Then I had to look up what ASBOs where, as well as why calling someone a 'chav' was an insult. Somethings are simply lost in translation.

Or you could, you know, learn to understand UK slang and culture. Just as we have to learn to understand US culture when watching US shows.

Candle Jack
2012-03-13, 12:21 AM
I got to say, the two Being Human series have gone in very different directions, but no more so than in a recent episode that showed …

… Sally (the ghost girl) has gone completely insane and believes that she has become the Grim Reaper.

Also, Sam Witwer wasn't kidding when he said in an interview that Aidan would be doing some pretty awful things this season. Those poor girls …


Y'know, having watched tonight's episode, I'm not sure that Sally's "grim reaper" is actually evil. The last two times it's showed up, its presence either stopped Sally from possessing that kid or knocked her spirit out of that poor girl.

Oh, Candle Jack, you naive fool.

Acanous
2012-03-13, 12:59 AM
UK slang is the best slang. People who roleplay with me often wonder why I call hirelings "Numpties".
I really don't have much time for television, was hearing good things about this show and wondering if maybe I should watch it. Think I'll get a third opinion.

Candle Jack
2012-04-02, 11:55 PM
Bump for the second-last episode of the season, "Partial Eclipse of the Heart."

Wow, that was the most emotionally-devastating solar eclipse (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OverlyNarrowSuperlative) ever in the history of television.

I knew that something bad was going to happen to Julia this episode, but I didn't expect it to happen quite like that. This show certainly delights at screwing with its cast in the most painful ways possible.

irenicObserver
2012-04-10, 09:43 AM
This episode was well done. Although I got this nagging feeling, I kept seeing what came next in some sort of deja vu.

Candle Jack
2012-04-10, 01:08 PM
This episode was well done. Although I got this nagging feeling, I kept seeing what came next in some sort of deja vu.

You're referring to the season finale? Perhaps you're thinking of the parent series; Sally's trip to Limbo was somewhat similar to what happened to Annie at the end of Season 2, with her getting pulled into the afterlife and then trying to contact Mitchell and George.

I find myself at odds with most of the Being Human fandom; whereas most people seemed to dislike the season 2 finale for various reasons (too much time spent on Mother, general hatred of Suren), I quite liked it. There were quite a few twists that I generally didn't expect. Plus, it produced this gem:

"You two are totally about to go on two separate killing sprees for women. That is so hot."

Fjolnir
2012-04-11, 08:25 AM
@lord seth: I have repeatedly said that if I could be any superhero it would be THAT incarnation of spider man; I mean all of spiderman's powers, a race car AND a giant robot? There is no downside I can see there.

Now about Being Human; I saw the first season and a half of the BBC version and found it REALLY difficult to get into the Canadian remake, part of the issue was that they took A TON of very good lines and moved them onto different characters an example (the one that turned me off of the show in fact) was that Aiden gives the "We're Sharks" speech to the Villain, which was almost word for word the same "We're Sharks" speech the Villain gives Mitchell in the BBC version...

Omergideon
2012-04-11, 10:43 AM
The final episode worked for me, and the acting was good. Sally and Josh's plots have built up well over the series and them moving as they did both felt natural and included some good suprises.

It is Aiden that is the weakness.

Not so much him and his character (though I struggle with repentent vampire types, as they are almost always mass murderers too etc). But the thing with Suren. They acted it well, but we don't get a sense for why Aiden is so into her, or her him. There is not enough backstory before the grounding to justify those feelings to me. Mother was fine herself, but tbh I did not really buy Aiden being so upset about it, or Suren refusing him.

Still, S3 could be good, so here is hoping.

Omergideon
2012-04-11, 10:45 AM
Double Post

Candle Jack
2012-04-11, 11:45 AM
The Suren/Aidan pairing did seem a bit artificial. They had some chemistry, but it didn't really reveal itself until later in the season.

irenicObserver
2012-04-11, 12:14 PM
I just had the feeling that, "it's so obvious someone is going to die, that's where all the tension is going"

Candle Jack
2012-04-11, 12:53 PM
I just had the feeling that, "it's so obvious someone is going to die, that's where all the tension is going"

I thought that Suren would stake Mother and then allow Aidan back into the fold, solving his blood supply problems.