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OPM
2012-01-24, 07:20 AM
I've heard a lot of other people wondering about it, but I haven't heard anyone identify it yet. What was Tsukiko's anti-wight ring? Does anyone know?

Kish
2012-01-24, 07:25 AM
It's a ring that protects the wearer from energy drain. Didn't you see what Redcloak said?

Cranica
2012-01-24, 07:57 AM
It's a ring that protects the wearer from energy drain. Didn't you see what Redcloak said?

I think he means "what ring would that be", there isn't one in the SRD I can find that protects against it. That said, Tsukiko is plenty high-level to cast Death Ward and there's nothing that particularly says one couldn't houserule a ring with a Death Ward effect built in.

Niknokitueu
2012-01-24, 07:59 AM
Yeah. Logically, she had to have one. To avoid level draining when, y'know...

Now, anyone got any brain-bleach?

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

Killer Angel
2012-01-24, 08:12 AM
I think he means "what ring would that be", there isn't one in the SRD I can find that protects against it.

I'm pretty sure Kish knew it.
Obviously a smallwink smile would blip more intensely on the sarcasm detector. :smalltongue:

Kish
2012-01-24, 08:21 AM
As Killer Angel alluded to, I am saying that all the relevant information about the ring is in the comic.

You can look for a similar ring in D&D materials if you wish to, but if you find one, I'll give you odds that you'll have found something Rich never bothered to look for.

Iain
2012-01-24, 08:45 AM
It might be a Ring of Negative Protection (from the Magic Item Compendium), or something similar. That could prove quite useful for Redcloak, should he ever find himself on the wrong side of, just for the sake of example, a powerful undead spellcaster fond of casting Energy Drain.

Then again, from the information given, it might just be a Ring of Protecting Tsukiko from the Draining Touch of Her Wights™...

KillianHawkeye
2012-01-24, 08:50 AM
The most intersting thing about this ring is that it's not something she had back when Haley and Belkar were still in Azure City. Otherwise, she wouldn't have had any problems with the wights getting Mr. Scruffy off of her face. However, since we didn't find out about it until it was taken away from her, I'm guessing that it's going to have some effect in the future. Because there wouldn't be much point to it otherwise, since it obviously didn't help Tsukiko at all.

I'm guessing that the ring will protect the wearer from energy drains of all kinds, including the ones from one of Xykon's favorite spells. So now Redcloak is protected from Xykon's energy drain spells, and it's going to matter sometime in the future.

Xapi
2012-01-24, 08:54 AM
The most intersting thing about this ring is that it's not something she had back when Haley and Belkar were still in Azure City. Otherwise, she wouldn't have had any problems with the wights getting Mr. Scruffy off of her face. However, since we didn't find out about it until it was taken away from her, I'm guessing that it's going to have some effect in the future. Because there wouldn't be much point to it otherwise, since it obviously didn't help Tsukiko at all.

I'm guessing that the ring will protect the wearer from energy drains of all kinds, including the ones from one of Xykon's favorite spells. So now Redcloak is protected from Xykon's energy drain spells, and it's going to matter sometime in the future.

But it DID serve a plot porpouse, that is, it allowed Redcloak to rant while Tsukiko was held but not yet dying.

So while we might see it again, it's not exactly certain.

Gitman00
2012-01-24, 09:00 AM
Ring of Death Ward

The wearer is immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects.

This ring doesn’t remove negative levels that the subject has already gained, nor does it affect the saving throw necessary 24 hours after gaining a negative level.

Moderate necromancy; CL 7th; Forge Ring (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#forgeRing), death ward (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathWard.htm); Price 56,000 gp.

Fruzbot
2012-01-24, 09:04 AM
The most intersting thing about this ring is that it's not something she had back when Haley and Belkar were still in Azure City. Otherwise, she wouldn't have had any problems with the wights getting Mr. Scruffy off of her face. However, since we didn't find out about it until it was taken away from her, I'm guessing that it's going to have some effect in the future. Because there wouldn't be much point to it otherwise, since it obviously didn't help Tsukiko at all.

Even though the ring was not very useful, I can belive that she crafted or got one because of that incident in Azure City. At least that makes her not-that-stupid.

Psyren
2012-01-24, 10:02 AM
In my opinion - If the Giant hadn't wanted the ring to be important later, she'd have just had a simple Death Ward spell up, which Redcloak would have then dispelled. Putting her protection in item form, and very prominently showing the transfer of that protection to Redcloak, is a pretty clear Chekov's Jewelry to me.

And I agree with Kish - the stats of this ring will only coincide with those in any sourcebook as far as they support Rich's story.

Kancsar
2012-01-24, 10:21 AM
death ward is only a cleric level 4 spell, so iirc easy for Tsukiko to put it into a ring. And given maximized energy drain is Xykon's favorite weapon against high level opponents, anything that parries that will be highly useful. But otoh can't a ring be suppressed with, say, superb dispelling? So the ring might only grant a temporary advantage, if it is unexpected.

Roderick_BR
2012-01-24, 10:33 AM
The most intersting thing about this ring is that it's not something she had back when Haley and Belkar were still in Azure City. Otherwise, she wouldn't have had any problems with the wights getting Mr. Scruffy off of her face. However, since we didn't find out about it until it was taken away from her, I'm guessing that it's going to have some effect in the future. Because there wouldn't be much point to it otherwise, since it obviously didn't help Tsukiko at all.

I'm guessing that the ring will protect the wearer from energy drains of all kinds, including the ones from one of Xykon's favorite spells. So now Redcloak is protected from Xykon's energy drain spells, and it's going to matter sometime in the future.
Maybe that event was what inspired her to get the ring in the first place.
Yeah, a simple Death Ward effect will do that.

derfenrirwolv
2012-01-24, 11:55 AM
The most intersting thing about this ring is that it's not something she had back when Haley and Belkar were still in Azure City. Otherwise, she wouldn't have had any problems with the wights getting Mr. Scruffy off of her face.

Hey! characters learning from their mistakes.



However, since we didn't find out about it until it was taken away from her, I'm guessing that it's going to have some effect in the future. Because there wouldn't be much point to it otherwise, since it obviously didn't help Tsukiko at all.

Its probably going to come up in the redcloak vs xykon battle where xykon starts spamming enervations at reddy , reddy goes "Nooooo.. ahhhhhh my 9th level spells.... just kidding. Implosion"

Kish
2012-01-24, 12:25 PM
If he says that, Xykon's rejoinder will be, "Argh, my bones...Just kidding, I'm immune to effects that allow a Fortitude save and can't target objects. Meteor Swarm or possibly Superb Dispelling...ah hell with it, Superb Dispelling, Quickened Meteor Swarm, and yes, kids, this is why Xykon doesn't have a familiar!"

Sethis
2012-01-24, 12:46 PM
In which case, "Maximized Disintegrate."

13arrage
2012-01-24, 02:13 PM
In which case, "Maximized Disintegrate."

Well, Redcloak doesn't have 10th level spell slots. I doubt it'd be enough to 1HKO Xykon anyway.

Joerg
2012-01-24, 02:43 PM
In which case, "Maximized Disintegrate."

Xykon isn't especially vulnerate to that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), either.

Deepbluediver
2012-01-24, 03:12 PM
The most intersting thing about this ring is that it's not something she had back when Haley and Belkar were still in Azure City.

Xykon had a couple months to sit around and craft magic items, y'know? After he filled up his own slots, he might have started generating things for his subordinates.

Emanick
2012-01-24, 03:13 PM
Well, Redcloak doesn't have 10th level spell slots. I doubt it'd be enough to 1HKO Xykon anyway.

Maximized Disintegrate is 9th level.

And Joerg, Xykon probably has an item that grants a deflection bonus, not something that specifically protects against disintegrate - the former type of object is both more common and more useful. Since RC has a considerably higher BAB than V, I don't think we can assume that Disintegrate just plain won't work on Xykon.

Morthis
2012-01-24, 03:23 PM
If he says that, Xykon's rejoinder will be, "Argh, my bones...Just kidding, I'm immune to effects that allow a Fortitude save and can't target objects. Meteor Swarm or possibly Superb Dispelling...ah hell with it, Superb Dispelling, Quickened Meteor Swarm, and yes, kids, this is why Xykon doesn't have a familiar!"

Quickened meteor swarm. o.O

Grendus
2012-01-24, 05:08 PM
Quickened meteor swarm. o.O

I believe he has the slots, based on casting maximized energy drain, and the familiar comment was an ACF that lets sorcerers cast metamagic spells as a standard action, thus qualifying them for Quicken.

13arrage
2012-01-24, 06:19 PM
Maximized Disintegrate is 9th level.

And Joerg, Xykon probably has an item that grants a deflection bonus, not something that specifically protects against disintegrate - the former type of object is both more common and more useful. Since RC has a considerably higher BAB than V, I don't think we can assume that Disintegrate just plain won't work on Xykon.


Naw, Disintegrate is a 7th level slot in the Destruction domain, which is the only (core) way Redcloak could have it. But I digress.

Emanick
2012-01-24, 07:54 PM
Naw, Disintegrate is a 7th level slot in the Destruction domain, which is the only (core) way Redcloak could have it. But I digress.

Oh, right, my bad. Forgot that disintegrate isn't an automatic Cleric 6 spell. :smallredface:

Gift Jeraff
2012-01-24, 07:57 PM
But we know Redcloak likes to use Disintegrate at plot-critical moments.When he lost his right eye and when he killed Right-Eye.

EmperorSarda
2012-01-24, 08:58 PM
Or when he cast Disintigrate at Hinjo.

Occasional Sage
2012-01-24, 08:58 PM
But it DID serve a plot porpouse, that is, it allowed Redcloak to rant while Tsukiko was held but not yet dying.

So while we might see it again, it's not exactly certain.

Nah. That coulda been done with a throwaway about talking being a free action.

Xapi
2012-01-25, 08:57 AM
Nah. That coulda been done with a throwaway about talking being a free action.

I think that sort of move would have killed a perfectly crafted mood for the scene.

Both because of an (old) gag being interjected in a serious discussión, and because of the timing of Tuskiko's faith (While Redcloak is lecturing her, we still don't know if/how he's going to kill her, if she was getting level drained as soon as the wights grab her, even letting RC give his full speech in a single round wouldn't work the same way).

A spell of Death Ward instead of a ring could have worked, but I think the idea that she is constantly protected (that is, that she can touch her wights at any time) is more powerful than "I just casted Death Ward in case someone decides to use my own wights against me".

Psyren
2012-01-25, 10:41 AM
Or when he cast Disintigrate at Hinjo.

And at O-Chul. It's definitely his go-to spell.

Hinjo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0480.html)
O-Chul (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0655.html)


death ward is only a cleric level 4 spell, so iirc easy for Tsukiko to put it into a ring. And given maximized energy drain is Xykon's favorite weapon against high level opponents, anything that parries that will be highly useful. But otoh can't a ring be suppressed with, say, superb dispelling? So the ring might only grant a temporary advantage, if it is unexpected.

Again, the issue here is actions.

Round 1: Maximized ED
Xykon: Hey, that didn't work, what's your secret?
Round 2: Superb Dispelling
Round 3: Maximized ED

That's 2 free rounds your ring bought you - a fantastic investment vs. an epic lich, especially when it gives you time to dump your high-level spells before you lose them.

It could even be more; Energy Drain says nothing about letting the caster know if it was successful. All Redcloak (or whoever ends up with it) has to do is sell it (wrestling term) by screaming or acting scared. Xykon could therefore pound redcloak with several EDs before he even realizes they're having no effect, and every single one is a free action for Redcloak.

And finally, you could ALSO have a death ward up. There's always the chance that the dispel hits one but not the other, buying you even more time.

KillianHawkeye
2012-01-26, 08:34 PM
Xykon had a couple months to sit around and craft magic items, y'know? After he filled up his own slots, he might have started generating things for his subordinates.

Possible, but I don't think Xykon is the kind of guy who'd start giving his underlings protections against his favorite spells. Maybe meteor swarm since it's an area spell, and it could come in handy to not have to worry about friendly fire, but energy drain is a ray spell which means Xykon won't accidentally hit his own allies with it.

Kish
2012-01-26, 08:43 PM
I also don't see Xykon making anything for his subordinates, particularly Redcloak or Tsukiko, both of whom are/were perfectly capable of making their own items.

If Xykon wanted Tsukiko to have a ring that made her immune to negative levels--if--then he would have ordered her to make one for herself. If he really didn't want to cut into her "studying the ritual" time--then he would have ordered Redcloak or Jirix to make one for her, they have (from Xykon's perspective) way too much time they don't dedicate to anything that benefits Xykon.

Anarion
2012-01-26, 11:21 PM
Xykon isn't especially vulnerate to that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html), either.

He might have enough AC that Redcloak won't be able to hit him, but Redcloak definitely has a better chance than V. Although a regular disintegrate won't do enough to Xykon to save Redcloak before Xykon took him out in one manner or another.


I also don't see Xykon making anything for his subordinates, particularly Redcloak or Tsukiko, both of whom are/were perfectly capable of making their own items.

If Xykon wanted Tsukiko to have a ring that made her immune to negative levels--if--then he would have ordered her to make one for herself. If he really didn't want to cut into her "studying the ritual" time--then he would have ordered Redcloak or Jirix to make one for her, they have (from Xykon's perspective) way too much time they don't dedicate to anything that benefits Xykon.


Maybe she picked it up from those Duerger salesmen at some point? Or found it amongst the equipment of the paladins (and it would be one of the items that would function without the blessing of the twelve gods). Or she used her "I'm too frustrated with this blasted ritual to keep going" time to make it?

MesiDoomstalker
2012-01-27, 01:28 AM
I'm pretty sure RC would be smarter than to try Disintegrate if he thinks he won't be able to hit reliably. He's been around Xykon long enough to have a good idea what his Touch AC is.

Also Dispel Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm), from which Superior Dispelling is directly derived from, can not target a person and spells on the person AND his items in one casting. So if RC has both the ring and Death Ward up, thats 2 turn Xykon has to use to use Energy Drain. But then Xykon would probably just switch to Meteor Swarm.

I'm pretty sure RC using Gate on his free round would be his strongest move. He'd also be smart enough to know Implosion wouldn't work and Earthquake would have no effect on Xykon when he has Overland Flight active.

OPM
2012-01-27, 01:42 AM
He might have enough AC that Redcloak won't be able to hit him, but Redcloak definitely has a better chance than V. Although a regular disintegrate won't do enough to Xykon to save Redcloak before Xykon took him out in one manner or another.


When O'Chul wrote out Xykon's spell list, he put epic mage armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/epicMageArmor.htm) on there as one of Xykon's epic spells. So yeah, I have to agree that Xykon has plenty of AC given how that spell gives him +20 for the whole day.

Silva Stormrage
2012-01-27, 02:15 AM
When O'Chul wrote out Xykon's spell list, he put epic mage armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/epicMageArmor.htm) on there as one of Xykon's epic spells. So yeah, I have to agree that Xykon has plenty of AC given how that spell gives him +20 for the whole day.

Um that spell gives an armor bonus. it doesn't protect against disintegrate that targets touch ac. (Incorporeal touch attacks != ranged touch attacks)

Niknokitueu
2012-01-27, 05:47 AM
I am unsure of how things have developed since the good ol' days of 2nd ed, but wouldn't Heal followed by hitting Xykon kill him off?

IIRC back then Heal on undead worked the same as Harm on living things, reducing them to D4 HP with no save. Hmm. May need some way of bypassing Xykon's magic resistance as well...

Anyway, a ring that gives you protection from Xykon's preferred MO is way too much of a Chekov's device to be discounted.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

Kish
2012-01-27, 05:50 AM
I am unsure of how things have developed since the good ol' days of 2nd ed, but wouldn't Heal followed by hitting Xykon kill him off?

IIRC back then Heal on undead worked the same as Harm on living things, reducing them to D4 HP with no save.


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/harm.htm

Assuming Xykon isn't prepared for positive energy attacks--which isn't a good assumption--he would almost certainly make his saving throw and take 75 points of damage. Not a bad attack for one attack, but he wouldn't be close to destroyed.

Niknokitueu
2012-01-27, 06:04 AM
Assuming Xykon isn't prepared for positive energy attacks--which isn't a good assumption--he would almost certainly make his saving throw and take 75 points of damage. Not a bad attack for one attack, but he wouldn't be close to destroyed.
Dang. D20 nerfed this highly effective combo.

Ah well... Back to business as usual.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

AJ11
2012-01-27, 07:41 AM
Dang. D20 nerfed this highly effective combo.

Ah well... Back to business as usual.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

It needed nerfing. Too bad they never nerfed the OTHER instant kill combo: Feeblemind + Quickened Ray of Stupidity.

Just about everyone but divine casters and monks have a pretty good chance to bite the dust with that one.

Ancalagon
2012-01-27, 08:09 AM
Assuming Xykon isn't prepared for positive energy attacks--which isn't a good assumption-- [...]

I go even further and say it is a good assumption he is protected against that. He knows that positive energy is his biggest weakness and he is very fond of using his negative energy on others.
That alone does not constitute that he should be protected but everyone who has read SoD knows Xykon does take these things into account and does have gotten a fitting item (from, as he claims, ebay).

I fail to see why he should leave this massive gap open in his defense if he is aware of the problem and already has shown to use items against it.

Anarion
2012-01-27, 09:13 AM
What might work is if V can figure out how to get a few more empowered sunbursts. That was actually a very effective spell as used by Darth V, and it could be used if the party manages to acquire a high level rod of metamagic empower. It's notable for being untyped damage that undead are especially vulnerable to. Although it's possible that Xykon would make the reflex save if the spell didn't come from Darth V.

Edit: Also V would need to gain a couple levels, but I expect that to happen before a final Xykon showdown.

Ancalagon
2012-01-27, 09:36 AM
I think that however Xykon will eventually go down, it will not be in a straight fight with any individual or any group. Yes, the final blow might come in/after a fight but it is not there will be a hollywood-showdown from "fresh to death". Xykon is too strong for that and also has too many means of escaping.

leakingpen
2012-01-27, 10:02 AM
I think that however Xykon will eventually go down, it will not be in a straight fight with any individual or any group. Yes, the final blow might come in/after a fight but it is not there will be a hollywood-showdown from "fresh to death". Xykon is too strong for that and also has too many means of escaping.

Xykon goes down to the snarl. no other way to do it.

JSSheridan
2012-01-27, 10:06 AM
RC: Tsukiko's ring? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought someone would have told you by now. See, this is MY ring now!

Ksyr
2012-01-27, 10:35 AM
I am unsure of how things have developed since the good ol' days of 2nd ed, but wouldn't Heal followed by hitting Xykon kill him off?

IIRC back then Heal on undead worked the same as Harm on living things, reducing them to D4 HP with no save. Hmm. May need some way of bypassing Xykon's magic resistance as well...

Anyway, a ring that gives you protection from Xykon's preferred MO is way too much of a Chekov's device to be discounted.

Have Fun!
Niknokitueu

Someone already tried positive energy in SoD. Xykon was prepared then, but that was 30 years ago so he may have made som changes.

dps
2012-01-27, 10:37 AM
But it DID serve a plot porpouse, that is, it allowed Redcloak to rant while Tsukiko was held but not yet dying.

So while we might see it again, it's not exactly certain.

It's also possible that its purpose was simply to keep people on the forums from wondering why she didn't have such an item. I don't really buy it--I agree that we'll probably see it again--but it's possible.

LudiDrizzt
2012-01-27, 10:50 AM
Someone already tried positive energy in SoD. Xykon was prepared then, but that was 30 years ago so he may have made som changes.

2 years ago.

LudiDrizzt
2012-01-27, 11:33 AM
Someone already tried positive energy in SoD. Xykon was prepared then, but that was 30 years ago so he may have made som changes.

2 years ago.

FatJose
2012-01-27, 11:41 AM
Someone already tried positive energy in SoD. Xykon was prepared then, but that was 30 years ago so he may have made som changes.

I get the feeling we're going to see a reversal of that scene in SoD before the end.

Psyren
2012-01-27, 12:58 PM
Xykon goes down to the snarl. no other way to do it.

I'm not so sure. He needs to go down permanently and the "world inside the Snarl" may mean that its victims aren't quite dead. Xykon surviving in any form is bad news.

Ancalagon
2012-01-27, 01:29 PM
RC: Tsukiko's ring? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought someone would have told you by now. See, this is MY ring now!

No. It is mine! Mine! My... preciousssss...

OPM
2012-01-27, 04:02 PM
Um that spell gives an armor bonus. it doesn't protect against disintegrate that targets touch ac. (Incorporeal touch attacks != ranged touch attacks)

Oops. But Xykon deflected the last disintegrate spell shot at him, so he has something protecting him.

And for those talking about feeblemind + ray of stupidity, it's mind affecting, so it won't work on Xykon at all due to lich immunities.

Szar_Lakol
2012-01-27, 05:08 PM
Ray deflection.

ti'esar
2012-01-27, 05:21 PM
I'm not so sure. He needs to go down permanently and the "world inside the Snarl" may mean that its victims aren't quite dead. Xykon surviving in any form is bad news.

In fact, while this might just be from too much familiarity with a different kind of RPGs, I have this sneaking suspicion that Xykon might actually wind up merging with the Snarl in some fashion. I'm certainly suspecting that Shojo's theory that the gods may have been even more vulnerable to it then high-level adventurers (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html) will come into play somehow.

ORione
2012-01-27, 05:58 PM
The most intersting thing about this ring is that it's not something she had back when Haley and Belkar were still in Azure City. Otherwise, she wouldn't have had any problems with the wights getting Mr. Scruffy off of her face.


Either this, or she was wearing different magic rings in anticipation of fighting Haley and co.

AJ11
2012-01-27, 09:52 PM
Oops. But Xykon deflected the last disintegrate spell shot at him, so he has something protecting him.

And for those talking about feeblemind + ray of stupidity, it's mind affecting, so it won't work on Xykon at all due to lich immunities.

I wasn't talking about Xykon. I was talking about instant kill combos.

dps
2012-01-27, 10:18 PM
And for those talking about feeblemind + ray of stupidity, it's mind affecting, so it won't work on Xykon at all due to lich immunities.

There's a joke in there somewhere...:smallwink: