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Mandrake
2012-01-25, 04:48 PM
A party of three joins DnD 4E.

Without the other knowing they make a party. Great idea! Voila - Rogue, Warlock, Barbarian.

Now I need help to make it easier for them to survive. I already gave them means to heal (e.g. Utility Feral Rejuvenation for Barb, Multiclassed the Rogue into Bard, Warlock took skill utility from PHB3 related to Religion that heals...) and mostly powers that can aid them in more than just plain smashing, thrusting and scorching.
The idea was to multiclass the Rogue into Bard, and do it for Paragon as well, make him a make-believe leader of the sorry lot.
Barbarian would go Sorcerer multiclass (he wants rituals, anyways, so Arcana from Sorcerer goes great) so that he can go controlling at least a bit, by which I mean kill minions with so much needed AoE.
Warlock would pretty much stay there with single-target damage and mostly debuffing abilities, not pure damage.

Does this seem a waste, underpowered or anything? Is it playable like that?
Any suggestions for improvenement/optimization or anything? Thanks!

Adoendithas
2012-01-25, 05:13 PM
Your party seems VERY damage-centric, with two full strikers and a striker-defender. Multiclassing into even more striker stuff probably wouldn't be a good idea. If the barbarian doesn't want to change primary classes, at least multiclass/hybrid to Wizard instead of Sorcerer.

Mandrake
2012-01-25, 05:36 PM
Yeah, about the Wiz part. It's more story-related if he goes Sorcerer. I know. It aches. But at least he can take AoE powers, rare though at Sorc, he can't take more than a few, anyway. Plus, there are some utilities that can be useful, close enough to Wiz. :s

Tegu8788
2012-01-25, 05:42 PM
A barbarian/sorcerer works much better mechanically than a barbarian/wizard. Fluff can be altered easily, but stats can get pretty MAD.

Sorcerer Blob
2012-01-25, 05:58 PM
First off, I see no reason that this couldn't work. Sure it's not an optimized party, but who cares?

I like, so far, what you've done, especially with the Rogue MC Bard. If your Rogue is trained in Heal, have them pick up the level 2 Heal Utility power that allows them to allow an adjacent dying ally to spend a Healing Surge. It's great and since you are making your Rogue into a quasi-Leader, it'd be fitting.

It should also be worth noting that the Barb doesn't have to rely on Sorcerer powers for the AoE spells they are wanting. The Warlock has ample opportunity to pick up some controllery-AoE powers if your Barb doesn't want to waste the MC or Hybrid.

Now, as far as combat goes, the lack of healing will hurt. It's true you have Second Winds galore and a quasi-Bard, but it will still hurt, especially with your 2 melee Strikers. Now, combat could go two ways: lots of damage to the enemies so you don't have to worry about heals or your PCs take a beating and barely escape by the skins of the necks due to a lack of heals.

A solution to this would to be, as you've done, make healing more common. I mean this as far as magical items go and/or loot. Make Healing Potions more widely available, even.

That said, if your players like their characters and are having fun with it, go with it! It'll probably take you a few encounters to get how to design encounters for this particular group, but in the end if fun is being had go for it.

Shatteredtower
2012-01-27, 08:21 AM
A solution to this would to be, as you've done, make healing more common. I mean this as far as magical items go and/or loot. Make Healing Potions more widely available, even.

Options to regain healing surges between extended rests, an option mentioned in one of the two DMGs, is also worth considering. Being able to redistribute the surges can also be helpful.

Another way you can help them out is to make the cure wounds line of potions more readily available to them. The potions grant their full healing benefit to creatures that are bloodied and out of healing surges -- not ideal, but it can help the group soldier on just a little bit longer. The potion of cure moderate wounds improves upon the benefits of a typical potion of healing even when you're spending healing surges to gain its effects, so it's a good alternative to the later as basic treasure for your group.

One last thing to consider: you need to boost the number of hit points your party members can regain with a healing surge. Several items help with this, while others boost the effect of healing powers, so keep those in mind when you're assigning treasure to your group. If the party would be reluctant to dedicate feats to improving their recovery time, consider offering Enduring Mountain as a bonus feat awarded to them in exchange for some task they perform.

Kurald Galain
2012-01-27, 08:35 AM
Sure it's playable, and it shouldn't matter that it's not optimized.

Note that both Rogue and Warlock have several AOE powers, as well as some nasty debuffs, so they should be able to handle the "control" aspect of the party. I would suggest to stock up on some healing potions for emergency cases.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-01-27, 01:20 PM
The barbarian takes the multiclass feat chain for a defender. In MP, there's a fighter daily power that marks the enemy until the end of the encounter, so you could swap a barbarian rage power for that to get some of the defender aspect.

Warlock and rogue both multiclass leader. That should cover the healing. And they take AoE powers to act as controllers.

Mandrake
2012-01-27, 07:13 PM
Thanks for advice, guys!

Basically, PoH is given whenever there's an option in the treasure parcel (they have 5 on them right now), and I try and avoid too much "giving away" (e.g. regain surges after extended rest, Enduring Mountain free feat, etc. but I will point them into that direction of increasing surge efficiency).

But I must say I'm wondering what is the purpose of MCing into a Defender? Ever, for that matter? You don't get class features, so your marking ability is ridiculous. And you still don't get that heavy AC boost, since you don't get free armor wearing abilities. Plus, the powers rarely let you mark (why would they, you can mark freely when a defender, right?) and on rare occasion they do (as Jade Dragon mentioned) it's a Daily, so not so tempting. I hope you can clear it out, if I failed somewhere here.