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Balain
2012-01-27, 04:49 AM
Okay So I'm behind the times, didn't know the new James Bond movie was out this year and it's called Skyfall. Anyone hear anything good or bad about it? Just wondering, I know I'll see it anyways cause I'm such a huge James Bond fan.

DigoDragon
2012-01-27, 07:26 AM
I haven't heard anything about a new Bond film. I guess I'm behind the times too.

DiscipleofBob
2012-01-27, 08:48 AM
I've heard a little about it. Apparently, the plot will involve some backstory behind M and testing Bond's loyalty to her. At least that's what I've read off a vague summary.

Traab
2012-01-27, 10:12 AM
I've heard a little about it. Apparently, the plot will involve some backstory behind M and testing Bond's loyalty to her. At least that's what I've read off a vague summary.

I have a continuity question. Are all these Bond, James Bond, secret agents supposed to be the same person? Is james bond as much a code name as the 007 add on? If not, then was it a new bond joining the secret agent staff every time they switched actors from the very beggining of the series to present day? Im just wondering, since, considering this new one will be about testing his loyalty, it makes sense only if their name is assigned to them and he is a relatively new agent. Otherwise, M is testing the loyalty of an apparently immortal secret agent that has served her majesties government for decades without fail.

Mewtarthio
2012-01-27, 10:22 AM
At the very least, Daniel Craig is supposed to be a new Bond--if not as another agent bearing the codename, then as a reboot of the franchise. I personally go with the theory that they're all different. The only real problem with that, though, is that the prologue of GoldenEye takes place before either of Dalton's films. Still, if we can accept that Bond temporarily became George Lazenby...

factotum
2012-01-27, 11:30 AM
I personally go with the theory that they're all different. The only real problem with that, though, is that the prologue of GoldenEye takes place before either of Dalton's films.

Actually, there's another problem with that--in one of Dalton's films (I think it was Licence to Kill) he gets thrown a wedding thingy by a CIA agent's wife, her saying that meant Bond was next to get married. Bond just kind of broke up and walked off, with the CIA guy explaining to his wife that "He was married once." This is pretty clearly a shout-out to the time Bond's new wife was killed as they were on the way to the honeymoon, but that was George Lazenby's Bond, not Timothy Dalton's!

Dr.Epic
2012-01-27, 11:34 AM
If you ask me, there's only one James Bond and he's played by Sean Connery. I don't care how old he is. Who doesn't want to see a senior citizen be a cool secret agent and hit on girls half his age? It'd be just like my highschool graduation.:smallwink:

arguskos
2012-01-27, 11:36 AM
I believe that, canonically, they are all the same guy, being portrayed by different actors over an extended period of time. Also, the time-periods of the films jump around, representing different eras of his career.

H Birchgrove
2012-01-27, 11:41 AM
Or maybe you all could just accept that they need to change actor(s) from time to time. :smallsigh:

Also, the new Casino Royale is officially a new timeline, so no need to bring up Dalton etc for it.

But if you have to go meta on this, watch Casino Royale from 1967 with David Niven, Peter Sellers, Woody Allen etc. This film should explain to you why there are so many "Bonds" out there. Hopefully, it will also make you laugh, but it's possible it will make you sleep by boredom.

Yora
2012-01-27, 11:50 AM
Apparently the "offical" stance is to not answer that question.

But in any case, the last two movies are a the very beginning of the "continuity", prequels, so to say, even if they take place at a later real world time.

To me, Bond is not a character, but a concept of spy movies. With lots of different people telling different stories about a "Bond-type" spy.
Though it probably helps that I've seen the movies for the first time completely out of order, and there were quite a lot of them, so there never was a continuity for me to begin with. The last two, which take place end to end, are a rare exception.
It's like picking up a batman comic. Yes, it's supposed to be the same character every time, but the stories never tell when it happens and every writer has his own ideas and interpretations, and it doesn't really anyway. And I actually like different directors and actors coming up with new ideas what the "idea of Bond" could be.

I'd really like to see a female version of bond, but that type of character seems to be extremely rare in media.

Traab
2012-01-27, 11:54 AM
Or maybe you all could just accept that they need to change actor(s) from time to time. :smallsigh:

Also, the new Casino Royale is officially a new timeline, so no need to bring up Dalton etc for it.

But if you have to go meta on this, watch Casino Royale from 1967 with David Niven, Peter Sellers, Woody Allen etc. This film should explain to you why there are so many "Bonds" out there. Hopefully, it will also make you laugh, but it's possible it will make you sleep by boredom.

Yeah, I get that they had to change actors from time to time, but the series of movies does cover a rather wide range of years. If it was all the same bond, he would have been in the secret agent business as an active agent for 50 years, making him a 70+ year old playboy who still manages to sleep with girls named Alotta Faghina despite his obvious lack of a 50 billion dollar fortune and estimated 6 month life expectancy. So basically, my question was, was pierce brosnan playing the same james bond who stopped Dr No? At what stage did the original james bond, (not the actor, the agent) retire, and get replaced by a younger model whose hip didnt break every time he fell?

WalkingTarget
2012-01-27, 12:31 PM
Yeah, I get that they had to change actors from time to time, but the series of movies does cover a rather wide range of years. If it was all the same bond, he would have been in the secret agent business as an active agent for 50 years, making him a 70+ year old playboy who still manages to sleep with girls named Alotta Faghina despite his obvious lack of a 50 billion dollar fortune and estimated 6 month life expectancy. So basically, my question was, was pierce brosnan playing the same james bond who stopped Dr No? At what stage did the original james bond, (not the actor, the agent) retire, and get replaced by a younger model whose hip didnt break every time he fell?

I treat it the same way I treat comic books: there's a sliding timeline. It's all the same Bond (until Craig, the official reboot), the timeline is just compressed with everything earlier happening relative to "now" not in absolute real-time dates.

KillianHawkeye
2012-01-27, 01:34 PM
Maybe it's like Doctor Who and he keeps regenerating.

Goosefeather
2012-01-27, 01:34 PM
It's quite simple: James Bond is a Timelord, and we are simply seeing his various regenerations.

To be more specific, he is the Timelord known as the Bachelor.

(If you don't get it, it's a play on the British degree classification system - you do a Bachelor's, then a Master's, then a PhD to become a Doctor!)

Karoht
2012-01-27, 01:46 PM
Obligatory wiki links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyfall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bond_(character)

The Ian Fleming novels portray Bond as one person, and a consistant character through all the novels.
The first thing I noticed about the new Daniel Craig 007 films is that his portrayal is much closer to the novelization. In which Bond is well, a jerk. Rather the majority of the time.

Sean Connery was an incredible realization of the character, but respectibly different from the novels in a few ways.


That said, Skyfall looks intriguing as it sounds more like a film about MI6 and a little bit less about James Bond saving the world from [insert villian of the week]. Possibly a bit more cerebral of a film, much the way Casino Royale worked. More spy thriller, less spy action film.

TheSummoner
2012-01-27, 01:51 PM
I have a continuity question. Are all these Bond, James Bond, secret agents supposed to be the same person? Is james bond as much a code name as the 007 add on? If not, then was it a new bond joining the secret agent staff every time they switched actors from the very beggining of the series to present day? Im just wondering, since, considering this new one will be about testing his loyalty, it makes sense only if their name is assigned to them and he is a relatively new agent. Otherwise, M is testing the loyalty of an apparently immortal secret agent that has served her majesties government for decades without fail.

At one point I just decided that as far as I was concerned, James Bond is a legacy character. Some of the James Bonds are the same guy, but not all. The same goes for Q and M (How else do you explain M being a man in the early films and a woman in the more recent ones?). The way I see it, once you join MI6, your identity means nothing. If your codename is 007, you are James Bond regardless of who you were before. James Bond is not a person, he is, as Flemming put it, "an anonymous, blunt instrument wielded by a government department."

So, there are different James Bonds from different points in time. Different men who gave up their identities and individuality to serve their country. Different men who were given the codename 007 and the name James Bond. Sometimes it is the same James Bond is in two different films, but not always.

WalkingTarget
2012-01-27, 02:10 PM
The same goes for Q and M (How else do you explain M being a man in the early films and a woman in the more recent ones?).

Well, M changing was marked within the films too - I know that Judi Dench was picked out as being the "new M" in Goldeneye and that there's a portrait of Bernard Lee in the background in at least one of the other Brosnan films.

Q is a job title, standing for "Quartermaster". The fact that Desmond Llewellyn played him for 17 films was just our luck that the same actor was around and willing to participate for that long. :smallsmile:

KillianHawkeye
2012-01-27, 09:08 PM
Q is a job title, standing for "Quartermaster". The fact that Desmond Llewellyn played him for 17 films was just our luck that the same actor was around and willing to participate for that long. :smallsmile:

Then how come the new guy was called R in the last Brosnan film?

Traab
2012-01-27, 09:35 PM
Then how come the new guy was called R in the last Brosnan film?

Requisitions? Ration Master? Retriever of Awesome Gadgets? aRmory? :smallbiggrin:

Mewtarthio
2012-01-27, 10:04 PM
Then how come the new guy was called R in the last Brosnan film?

I don't think anyone officially identifies him as 'R'. In The World Is Not Enough, Bond gives him that nickname (since he comes after Q), and it is the name he gets in the end credits, but I don't think anyone else uses it.

And even if they did, it would have to be in Cleese's only other Bond movie: Die Another Day. I think we can all agree that nothing from DAD counts for anything.

Soras Teva Gee
2012-01-27, 10:13 PM
So apparently the new Bond film will not be continuing the Quantum story arc from the last two. Which is a shame but apparently since the project was shut-down for awhile I will take what I can get.

Also meet the new Q (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Whishaw) everyone. No word on Moneypenny.


I have a continuity question. Are all these Bond, James Bond, secret agents supposed to be the same person? Is james bond as much a code name as the 007 add on? If not, then was it a new bond joining the secret agent staff every time they switched actors from the very beggining of the series to present day? Im just wondering, since, considering this new one will be about testing his loyalty, it makes sense only if their name is assigned to them and he is a relatively new agent. Otherwise, M is testing the loyalty of an apparently immortal secret agent that has served her majesties government for decades without fail.

Before Craig generally but vaguely yes. How one guy could only get younger over 30 years is one of those questions not to ask. And really except for the early Connery ones there's little need to know about any previous Bond film.

After Craig, he is the only James Bond. And while James Bond may not be his birth name since we only have Vesper's guesses for a background in the current movies. However its not some code legacy name, because he was still James Bond before being 007 as shown in Casino Royale's opening.

M is a code name like 007 is but in the current films the previous heads of MI6 may have been called something else. Bond is about to tell us M has some actual relation to the Judi Dench's M's background (and is not a random letter) but she'll have him killed if he says anymore. I take it as a deep cover joke to explain why she's M and not C.

H Birchgrove
2012-01-27, 10:16 PM
Yeah, I get that they had to change actors from time to time, but the series of movies does cover a rather wide range of years. If it was all the same bond, he would have been in the secret agent business as an active agent for 50 years, making him a 70+ year old playboy who still manages to sleep with girls named Alotta Faghina despite his obvious lack of a 50 billion dollar fortune and estimated 6 month life expectancy. So basically, my question was, was pierce brosnan playing the same james bond who stopped Dr No? At what stage did the original james bond, (not the actor, the agent) retire, and get replaced by a younger model whose hip didnt break every time he fell?

Well, Bond is in the Wold Newton Universe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wold_Newton_family), so he and the MI6 probably gets shipment of the same wonder drug Tarzan and Doc Savage use to keep them young.

Mewtarthio
2012-01-28, 01:30 AM
After Craig, he is the only James Bond. And while James Bond may not be his birth name since we only have Vesper's guesses for a background in the current movies. However its not some code legacy name, because he was still James Bond before being 007 as shown in Casino Royale's opening.

Unless MI6 redacted Bond's real name and forced the producers to refer to him as "James Bond" throughout the entire film!

WalkingTarget
2012-01-28, 01:35 AM
Then how come the new guy was called R in the last Brosnan film?

He wasn't. In The World is Not Enough Bond jokingly called him that, as Mewtarthio points out, but he's credited as Q in Die Another Day after he's actually taken that position.

Tirian
2012-01-28, 02:01 AM
The whole thing is dependent on whichever is funnier or more poignant at any moment in a film. At the beginning of For Your Eyes Only, "Roger Moore" is clearly and obviously grieving at the gravesite of the woman that "George Lazenby" married, unless you want to fanfic so significantly as to believe that both men married women named Teresa who died at the age of 26 and for whom the phrase "We have all the time in the world" is so meaningful as to be her epitaph. On the other hand of the coin, as I recall, at the end of the first scene of On Her Majesty's Secret Service, "George Lazenby" turns to the camera and said "This never happened to the other fellow" (referring to "Sean Connery"). The Bond series is not high art, so don't expect consistency or even a devotion to consistency when they just want to spin an exciting and amusing story.

On the other hand, I think it's clear that Dame Judi Densch is so awesome that she can replace any English person she likes and do a better job of it.

TheSummoner
2012-01-28, 12:51 PM
On the other hand, I think it's clear that Dame Judi Densch is so awesome that she can replace any English person she likes and do a better job of it.

Shhhh! If she hears you say that, next thing we know she'll be performing every role in the film by herself.

Traab
2012-01-28, 01:38 PM
Shhhh! If she hears you say that, next thing we know she'll be performing every role in the film by herself.

"Bond. Jamie Bond."

TheThan
2012-01-28, 01:58 PM
If it was all the same bond, he would have been in the secret agent business as an active agent for 50 years, making him a 70+ year old playboy who still manages to sleep with girls named Alotta Faghina despite his obvious lack of a 50 billion dollar fortune and estimated 6 month life expectancy.
Well that does sound a lot like Sean Connery. :tongue:
(emphasis added for comedy relief)

Personally I look at each new actor (Connery, Lazenby, Moor, Dalton, Brosnan, and Craig) as being in different continuities from each other. They all have subtle differences in character (due to acting and directing) and a lot of times, the basic aspects of Bondís adventures are different. For example Bond does a lot of swimming and water sports (no, not that sort of water sports, get your head out of the gutter) when he was played by Connery, while with Moor, he did a lot of skiing and snow related activities in his adventures.

CommodoreFluffy
2012-01-28, 04:14 PM
I have a continuity question. Are all these Bond, James Bond, secret agents supposed to be the same person? Is james bond as much a code name as the 007 add on? If not, then was it a new bond joining the secret agent staff every time they switched actors from the very beggining of the series to present day? Im just wondering, since, considering this new one will be about testing his loyalty, it makes sense only if their name is assigned to them and he is a relatively new agent. Otherwise, M is testing the loyalty of an apparently immortal secret agent that has served her majesties government for decades without fail.

I think this may have been hinted at, but Daniel Craig's movies are a bit of a reboot, and james bond is starting over from square one. Casino Royale specifically is a remake of an older story.

H Birchgrove
2012-01-28, 11:38 PM
Well that does sound a lot like Sean Connery. :tongue:
(emphasis added for comedy relief)

Personally I look at each new actor (Connery, Lazenby, Moor, Dalton, Brosnan, and Craig) as being in different continuities from each other. They all have subtle differences in character (due to acting and directing) and a lot of times, the basic aspects of Bondís adventures are different. For example Bond does a lot of swimming and water sports (no, not that sort of water sports, get your head out of the gutter) when he was played by Connery, while with Moor, he did a lot of skiing and snow related activities in his adventures.

Ian Fleming's Bond enjoyed both type of sports, but IIRC Bond did mention being a bit "rusty" when it came to skiing in the novel version of On Her Majesty's Secret Service. After all, he wasn't *quite* the superman portrayed in the films.

turkishproverb
2012-01-28, 11:47 PM
I have a continuity question. Are all these Bond, James Bond, secret agents supposed to be the same person? Is james bond as much a code name as the 007 add on? If not, then was it a new bond joining the secret agent staff every time they switched actors from the very beggining of the series to present day? Im just wondering, since, considering this new one will be about testing his loyalty, it makes sense only if their name is assigned to them and he is a relatively new agent. Otherwise, M is testing the loyalty of an apparently immortal secret agent that has served her majesties government for decades without fail.

That...depends heavily on who you ask. The studio hasn't really been clear on that, and soem fans think some ways and some think others.

dehro
2012-01-30, 03:30 AM
If you ask me, there's only one James Bond and he's played by Sean Connery.
agreed, very much agreed
I don't care how old he is. Who doesn't want to see a senior citizen be a cool secret agent and hit on girls half his age?
oh, you mean like in RED (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RED_(2010_film))?
It'd be just like my highschool graduation.:smallwink:
you went to school in langley?

I'm still not sold on the Daniel Craig Bond.. no matter the amount of swooning he gets from my ladyfriends when he's shirtless.
where are the gadgets, I say?
where are the silly names for the bond girls? I had to read it on the intarwebz that agent Fields' first name was strawberry. I'm sure it wasn't mentioned on screen.
why doesn't Bond get the girl? (you know which one..the would be assassin I forget the name of, played by that Ukranian woman)

nope...he's more like another Bourne than he is a Bond in keeping with the movie traditions of Bond (I know that he's closer to the books..but who cares? the movies have estabilished a trend of their own)

pffh
2012-01-30, 04:53 AM
Hopefully it has more gadgets and less shaky cam fight scenes. Those were my only faults wth the last two movies. Especially the shaky cam fight scenes that insist on zooming in randomly and switching camera every 3 seconds so you have no idea what the **** is going on in the fight.

H Birchgrove
2012-01-30, 08:57 AM
I'm still not sold on the Daniel Craig Bond.. no matter the amount of swooning he gets from my ladyfriends when he's shirtless.
where are the gadgets, I say?
where are the silly names for the bond girls? I had to read it on the intarwebz that agent Fields' first name was strawberry. I'm sure it wasn't mentioned on screen.
why doesn't Bond get the girl? (you know which one..the would be assassin I forget the name of, played by that Ukranian woman)

nope...he's more like another Bourne than he is a Bond in keeping with the movie traditions of Bond (I know that he's closer to the books..but who cares? the movies have estabilished a trend of their own)

Read the novels, Bond was Bourne before Bourne. Especially in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, You Only Live Twice, and The Man With The Golden Gun:

1. Bond's wife gets killed by Blofeld (or Irma Bunt). :smallfrown:

2. :smallfurious: After avenging Tracy Bond, and having gone through a poisonous garden in glorious pulp fiction-style, Bond escapes Blofeld's hide-out, but knocks his head and gets... DUN DUN DUN!!!... amnesia! :smalleek:

3. Gets brainwashed by the Communist Russians and gets sent to England to assassinate M. :smalleek:

Granted, the original "brainwashed assassin" thriller was Richard Condon's The Manchurian Candidate.

dehro
2012-01-30, 09:22 AM
Read the novels, Bond was Bourne before Bourne. Especially in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, You Only Live Twice, and The Man With The Golden Gun:


as I said, movie-Bond was never book-Bond and, in his own right, estabilished certain traditions, patterns and a certain verve that were original to the movies. after umpteen movies that follow those tennants, that's what I expect to find in a new one... if I want Bond to be gritty, all out action and ruthlessly deprived of a sense of humour..I'll read the books.
the whole hollywood fad of retconning everything just so that the director gets to change stuff arbitrarily or give it his own personal stamp.. it doesn't always work in favour of the final product.

H Birchgrove
2012-01-30, 10:22 AM
as I said, movie-Bond was never book-Bond and, in his own right, estabilished certain traditions, patterns and a certain verve that were original to the movies. after umpteen movies that follow those tennants, that's what I expect to find in a new one... if I want Bond to be gritty, all out action and ruthlessly deprived of a sense of humour..I'll read the books.
the whole hollywood fad of retconning everything just so that the director gets to change stuff arbitrarily or give it his own personal stamp.. it doesn't always work in favour of the final product.
Well, there's early Sean Connery, George Lazenby, and Timothy Dalton... Even Roger Moore's Bond had serious moments. (For Your Eyes Only and Octopussy, in particular.) If the Craig Bond lose popularity, then maybe we'll get a return to a funnier Bond (again).

Karoht
2012-01-30, 11:37 AM
I never liked Pierce Brosnan as bond. He should have played the role when it was originally offered to him (back during his Remington Steele days), rather than when he did. At least they gave him a good script to work with though, namely Goldeneye.

I'm an odd one, I liked Timothy Dalton, and mostly because he played the grittier Bond. Sadly he was saddled with poor scripts, although License to Kill I will chalk up to plenty of lost potential, not so much a weak script.

But due to the fact that the two actors do share a rather similar appearance in some respects, I think that Brosnan could have played a gritty bond and done it well, weak/strong scripts aside. I think Brosnan in License to Kill would have been astonishingly good. But, had you put Brosnan in Casino Royale, I'm not sure he would have done well at all. I think the part I liked about Brosnan's performance in Goldeneye was the fact that he really rode that hardcore line as closely as he could get away with, but never really crossed it.

All that said, as a fan of the books, I'm rather enjoying this return to Bond's routes. That said, it could stand to be a bit lighter at times, but only slightly.

Again though, I think it's also a difference of motif. Most Bond films have been action films with spies as a backdrop. The recent Bond films strike me as closer to being spy thrillers.

Balain
2012-01-30, 11:26 PM
I personally believe the bond movies are all the same guy, just need to get new actors now and then. Up to Brosnan it was roughly the same timeline (kind of like the simpsons running for 23 years is it now starting with the show actually taking place for 23ish years but no one ever gets older). Craig bond is the same guy but a re-boot to the series, so you can look at the stuff that happened before didn't happen to this new bond.

CommodoreFluffy
2012-01-31, 10:18 AM
James Bond is a timelord

Killer Angel
2012-01-31, 10:30 AM
I have a continuity question. Are all these Bond, James Bond, secret agents supposed to be the same person? Is james bond as much a code name as the 007 add on? If not, then was it a new bond joining the secret agent staff every time they switched actors from the very beggining of the series to present day? Im just wondering, since, considering this new one will be about testing his loyalty, it makes sense only if their name is assigned to them and he is a relatively new agent. Otherwise, M is testing the loyalty of an apparently immortal secret agent that has served her majesties government for decades without fail.

Not only Bond is different, but also M, and also many other things.
Basically, we're watching different versions of james Bond in different parallel universes.
'cause coolness is not limited by a mere sky. :smallcool: