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t209
2012-01-29, 10:30 AM
Which world setting is more dangerous or exotic?
Morrowind- Homeland of Dunmer (Dark Elves). Land with volcanoes, giant mushrooms and exotic creatures. If you wanted to know what morrowind is, think as it is mixture of Pandora (Avatar) and Darksun (D&D). Their land is ruled by a group of demi gods named Tribunal (Except Azura).
Darksun- A world after magical disaster. Land with dunes, sands, and blood. Think as it is mixture of Mad Max and Dune. Water and metal are scarce , and the world is divided by god-kings.
Do you ever wonder if Morrowind got the idea from Dark Sun?
P.S- I got this idea from Dim Sun setting.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2012-01-29, 12:47 PM
In Morrowind's defense, the Mainland is much more... civilized than Vvardenfell.

Tiki Snakes
2012-01-29, 12:52 PM
Eh, yeeeah. Morrowind is plenty exotic that's for sure. Silt Striders and Cliff-Racers, etc etc. Some fantastic landscapes.

But Dark Sun's Athas? Yeah, the weather alone will chew you up and spit you out like a boss, resources are so sparse as to be barely present and it gets worse from there. In the old editions where commoners and so on were normally unstated non-entities the average Dark Sun Pleb had character levels because you had to be that badass just to survive the safest parts of it and the creatures are usually so nightmarish that even in 4th Edition they noticeably meaner compared to their non-Dark-Sun equivalents.

Deadliness is a non-contest.

[edit] In Morrowind, you harvest plants.
In Soviet Russia Athas, plants harvest you.

Pokonic
2012-01-29, 12:52 PM
Athas is hardcore. There ar some things in Morrowind that cannot kill you. Thats not the case in Athas.

Edit: About the above note, yeah, the guys who wrote the very nice 4e books made everythings attack higher than the standered. You know, the one where "balance is key"? They ignored that.

t209
2012-01-29, 02:43 PM
In Morrowind's defense, the Mainland is much more... civilized than Vvardenfell.

How about
scalebacks occupied post- volcano Morrowind?

Emperor Ing
2012-01-29, 02:46 PM
While Morrowind has a lot of exotic-ness going for it, in terms of sheer survivability, if I were dropped as I am right now into the middle of one of these settings, i'd have a much better chance surviving in Morrowind than Athas.

Eldan
2012-01-29, 04:50 PM
Morrowind has reasonably safe places. Around most of the coasts, pretty much all larger settlements...

The guards are crazy. But I'd assume they'd be pretty efficient in dealing with the occasional errant plague zombie or bull netch.

t209
2012-01-30, 12:20 AM
And Morrowind have steel! Frickin Steel and lawful good empire!

Feytalist
2012-01-30, 03:05 AM
Dark Sun has violent cannibal halflings.

A clear win, I'd say.

Mikeavelli
2012-01-30, 03:10 AM
Just as a lark, can anyone name any setting more harsh than Darksun?

I mean, even from a purely D&D prospective, given the choice between adventuring through all nine hells of Baator, or all the city-states of Athas... I'd be leaning towards Baator.

TheDarkDM
2012-01-30, 04:44 AM
Just as a lark, can anyone name any setting more harsh than Darksun?

I mean, even from a purely D&D prospective, given the choice between adventuring through all nine hells of Baator, or all the city-states of Athas... I'd be leaning towards Baator.

Dune is the only one that leaps to mind, but Athas was based on it in no small part so I'm not sure it counts.

Aside from that...maybe Fallout (1+2 variety, not 3). Desert, radiation, mutated monsters, and ideological zealots holding the best guns make for a strong contender.

Tiki Snakes
2012-01-30, 09:44 AM
Well, theoretically a Warhammer 40k Death World should give Athas a run for it's money. I've no idea about what if any have been actually written up though.

And to be fair, I'd probably describe such worlds as "Think Dark Sun", anyway half the time.

Cespenar
2012-01-30, 10:35 AM
Just as a lark, can anyone name any setting more harsh than Darksun?

I'm not awfully savvy on both of them, but... Ravenloft?

Zaydos
2012-01-30, 10:48 AM
Just as a lark, can anyone name any setting more harsh than Darksun?

I mean, even from a purely D&D prospective, given the choice between adventuring through all nine hells of Baator, or all the city-states of Athas... I'd be leaning towards Baator.

Well Baator is rather tame as the planes go (the Grey Waste is worse, Gehenna might be, Pandemonium is worse, the Abyss is all over the place and that's just Lower Planes). Most of the Inner Planes were pretty bad, but especially the Negative Quasielemental Planes (Salt makes Darksun look like one of the Great Lakes, Ash sucks the heat right out of you and can kill white dragons, Dust makes you disintegrate, and Vacuum is a plane of absolute emptiness filled with disintegration fungus and other things that want to kill you). Some layers of the Abyss are supposed to be even worse, so dangerous that even upper level Tanar'ri can't survive them. I'd say you could throw most tanar'ri onto Athas and they'd be fine, a balor would have some fun, so that internally Planescape had far worse stuff than Athas.

t209
2012-01-31, 12:12 AM
One question? Why Belkar is always hungry in Dim SUn Setting?

thubby
2012-01-31, 12:19 AM
does darksun have people randomly falling out of the sky carrying fortify acrobatics scrolls?
i think not. so morrowind is infinitely cooler :smalltongue:

Lord Raziere
2012-01-31, 12:24 AM
Just as a lark, can anyone name any setting more harsh than Darksun?




*opens mouth to as if to say something, but closes it again*

*thinks*

"opens mouth again, closes it again*

*thinks some more*

1984? naaaah, Dark Sun's worse than that.

Worl- naaaaaah.

..

Grixis. from Shards of Alara. doesn't even have plants growing there anymore, lots of black mana with blue and red mana, is basically an entire world of bones and corpses with little actual life left, has no sun whatsoever.

also, maybe Phyrexia.

Mikeavelli
2012-01-31, 12:48 AM
does darksun have people randomly falling out of the sky carrying fortify acrobatics scrolls?
i think not. so morrowind is infinitely cooler :smalltongue:

Chances are, people who jumped up into the air with fortify acrobatics spells would simply be caught in the jaws of some large airborne predator before they could fall back out of the sky.

:P




Phyrexia.



I'm sure Grixis is nice and deadly as well, but I stopped following M:TG a while ago. Phyrexia I'm familiar with.

THIS is a match made in heaven. Or hell. Whatever.

The world is a barren wasteland, slowly plunging towards the inevitable collapse of all life. The people in charge are the ones who caused it, and dethroning them will simply hasten the collapse.

(True of Athas obviously, but also Phyrexia, as an artificiial plane, is innately unstable. It's Yawgmoth's fault, but if he died, it would spiral out of control that much faster)

-----------

After being involved in an extraplanar conflict, the opposing plane did everything it could to seal the portal and place VERY large warning signs instructing everyone else to never go here.

Athas- Gith invasion.

Phyrexia - Basically the entire history of Dominaria and Phyrexia.

-----------

Pretty much everything is trying to kill you. The land, the water, the plants, the air.

Check, and doublecheck.

What else am I missing?

In a dedicated interplanar war between the two, which one would win?

Vacant
2012-01-31, 05:26 AM
In Morrowind, you harvest plants.
In Soviet Russia Athas, plants harvest you.

Sure (http://static.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/15073-1-1202044166.jpg)


Morrowind has reasonably safe places. Around most of the coasts, pretty much all larger settlements...

The guards are crazy. But I'd assume they'd be pretty efficient in dealing with the occasional errant plague zombie or bull netch.

They'll also be efficient in dealing with you at the slightest misstep; Ordinators make no secret of their desire to murder your n'wah ass in a second.


And Morrowind have steel! Frickin Steel and lawful good empire!

You've, uh, played an Elder Scrolls game, right? The empire's been a long way from LG since forever. They're the lesser evil at best.

Cespenar
2012-01-31, 11:28 AM
Sure (http://static.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/15073-1-1202044166.jpg)


He said Morrowind, not Northern Cyrodiil. :smalltongue:

Tiki Snakes
2012-01-31, 01:16 PM
Sure (http://static.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/15073-1-1202044166.jpg)


How many of the plants in that image are actively trying to kill you?

Thialfi
2012-01-31, 02:03 PM
Just as a lark, can anyone name any setting more harsh than Darksun?

I mean, even from a purely D&D prospective, given the choice between adventuring through all nine hells of Baator, or all the city-states of Athas... I'd be leaning towards Baator.


I remember back when we were running the high level adventures in our Dark Sun campaign. One of TSR's adventures advertized that the players would be attempting to stop an invasion of Athas by a mysterious outside force.

Every one of our players had the same reaction, "who the hell would want to invade Dark Sun? Are they insane? They can have it as long as they let us leave first."

Axolotl
2012-01-31, 02:41 PM
I have to go against the general trend and say that Athas, while horrible does not have cliffracers and is therefore the better place to live.



In a dedicated interplanar war between the two, which one would win?Between Morrowind and Athas or between Phyrexia and Athas?

In the former case Athas due to DnD magic being better and just the general brutality of the settting.

In the second case, Phyrexia easily. Dark Sun is a blasted desolate wasteland but Phyrexia is nothing but facilities for creating armies of zombies, demons and robots and everything neede to maintain them. Besides which, Athas has some certifiably hardcore dudes but nobody there can even begin to compare with Yawgmoth.

t209
2012-01-31, 03:18 PM
He said Morrowind, not Northern Cyrodiil. :smalltongue:

And this is from Solstheim. Since it is based on skyrim vikings, it doesn't count as Morrowind.

Corvus
2012-01-31, 05:25 PM
As far as worlds go, Athas is about as brutal as you can get and still appear a realistic world (if you ignore all the weird life that lives on it.)

You could possibly find planets that are akin to Athas.

Mr.Silver
2012-01-31, 05:49 PM
Well, theoretically a Warhammer 40k Death World should give Athas a run for it's money. I've no idea about what if any have been actually written up though. And to be fair, I'd probably describe such worlds as "Think Dark Sun", anyway half the time.

Catachan maybe? It's almost entirely covered in jungles and nearly every single animal on it (and a good chunk of the plants) are lethal as far as humans are concerned. I mean you've got plants which shoot spikes at you which then grow into more plants, using your body as food, ants which can paralyse a with a single sting (more than one is fatal), a lot of snakes venomous enough to kill in under a minute, blood wasps (think army ants, but flying, more aggressive and more dangerous) and the Catachan Devils and all manner of other things. Incidentally, Catachan Devils are essentially a cross between a scorpion and a centipede that can grow up to 30 metres long. They also hunt in packs, and have been known to attack tank regiments.

Oh, and don't forget the Barking Toad, which is essentially a WMD in amphibian form. If startled, it will explode in a cloud of toxic gas that will kill basically everything within a 1km radius, including people wearing respirators and sealed suits.

Whoracle
2012-01-31, 05:58 PM
And this is from Solstheim. Since it is based on skyrim vikings, it doesn't count as Morrowind.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solstheim#Setting):



Bloodmoon takes place on the island of Solstheim, northwest of Morrowind, the main landmass of its eponymous game, and north-east of Skyrim. It is disputed territory, with both provinces claiming the island.


Emphasis mine.

It can coutn as both, depending on who you ask.

Nevertheless, I think Arthas takes the cake in regards of danger, but I personally find Morrowind much more exotic,mainly because of its diversity.

Arthas is your basic desert world plus deadly critters. We have that on our planet. But where can you find mushroom tress on terra?

t209
2012-01-31, 08:33 PM
When I look at Morrowind, there's thing different from Darksun (the society).
- The empire in Morrowind is close to Lawful good.
- Iron weapons is available to everyone.

Jade Dragon
2012-01-31, 08:39 PM
One question? Why Belkar is always hungry in Dim SUn Setting?

Are you talking about his remark or his weapons?

If it's his remark, he said dim sum, which is a Chinese food.

If it's his equipment, halflings are cannibals.

t209
2012-01-31, 08:44 PM
Are you talking about his remark or his weapons?

If it's his remark, he said dim sum, which is a Chinese food.

If it's his equipment, halflings are cannibals.
Sometimes joke remarks can be part of the setting parody.

thubby
2012-01-31, 11:54 PM
How many of the plants in that image are actively trying to kill you?

the one with legs and all the bright specks

Mikeavelli
2012-02-01, 12:01 AM
Besides which, Athas has some certifiably hardcore dudes but nobody there can even begin to compare with Yawgmoth.

I'd say Rajaat measures up pretty well against Yawgmoth. They're pretty much the same guy if you play loose with specifics in the background stories.

- Discovered a new, interesting, and corrupting form of magic / technology

- Built up an army using that selfsame new technique

- Launched a genocidal war against everyone else, nearly won.

- Yawgmoth was beaten back by the Thran, but Rajaat won until his own Champions turned on him. They both got sealed away until some pretty significant events in the plot happened.

Borys and Dregoth are probably tied for second place, and the rest of the Champions are able and willing to work together in the event that they really have to respond to a threat.

Also, there's the Dark Lens. Epic-level too-powerful-to-be-statted plot coupon sort of thing. It's absolutely ridiculous what it's capable of.

t209
2012-02-01, 01:16 PM
does darksun have people randomly falling out of the sky carrying fortify acrobatics scrolls?
i think not. so morrowind is infinitely cooler :smalltongue:

Oh yeah! magic is licensed firearms of Dark sun!

t209
2012-02-02, 08:13 PM
Sure (http://static.tesnexus.com/downloads/images/15073-1-1202044166.jpg)You've, uh, played an Elder Scrolls game, right? The empire's been a long way from LG since forever. They're the lesser evil at best.
They are much better than the empire in Darksun! Yes, I played elderscrolls game and The empire is not evil,
Up until Uriel Septim (and Martin Septim) died and became a sellout to the nazi elf.
They're like Tyr except with iron for everyone!

TheSweetieMan
2012-02-05, 11:59 PM
Honestly, I say Morrowind is more terrifying. Four AM. Haven't slept in three days. Crawling through a Dweomer ruin. Hearing the creaking and grinding of gears and then a ****ing ROBOT pops up and attacks me?! Oh, and not to mention the Dremora who said "I will rape your corpse!"

Grue Bait
2012-02-06, 12:51 AM
Just as a lark, can anyone name any setting more harsh than Darksun?

Perhaps Pandora from Borderlands? I don't think anything non-human is willing to let you live. And most humans don't want you alive either.

t209
2012-02-06, 01:35 AM
Perhaps Pandora from Borderlands? I don't think anything non-human is willing to let you live. And most humans don't want you alive either.

Skyrim is not as deadly but it count as deathworld since they got troll, viking civil wars, and dragons (Skyrim era).
Edit: I forgot! There are robots, Falmers, and witches.

Tavar
2012-02-06, 01:47 AM
A setting as harsh? Okay: the book's called Redliners, by David Drake, and if up for free here (http://www.baen.com/library/067187733X/067187733X.htm)(put up by the publisher).

The planet has a device on it. The planet will therefore try it's upmost to kill you, and a anyone else who steps for on it. This includes altering the geography so that a stream has a layer of acid running underneath the water, engineered 'tribes' of natives who will continually attack, and mega beasts.

Using advanced sci-fic Technology you might survive, if you bring a company force of what are effectively special forces. Might.

Cespenar
2012-02-06, 03:42 PM
Honestly, I say Morrowind is more terrifying. Four AM. Haven't slept in three days. Crawling through a Dweomer ruin. Hearing the creaking and grinding of gears and then a ****ing ROBOT pops up and attacks me?! Oh, and not to mention the Dremora who said "I will rape your corpse!"

More importantly, Cliff Racers.

Eldan
2012-02-06, 03:47 PM
More importantly, Cliff Racers.

Not anymore. Thanks to St. Jiub.

Cespenar
2012-02-06, 05:11 PM
Not anymore. Thanks to St. Jiub.

Whassat? A fancy mod or something?

pffh
2012-02-06, 05:16 PM
Whassat? A fancy mod or something?

Nope Jiub (The guy that asks you your name on the boat) killed them all between morrowind and oblivion.

Eldan
2012-02-06, 05:16 PM
A backstory bit from Oblivion.

Jiub is the dark elf you first meet in Morrowind, the one with you on the ship. "Wake up..." and so on.

Oblivion mentioned that a Dunmer named Jiub was sainted by the Tribunal for exterminating Cliff Racers.

Weezer
2012-02-06, 05:17 PM
Whassat? A fancy mod or something?

In Oblivion it's mentioned that a Dunmer by the name of St. Jiub drove off the cliff racers.

Cespenar
2012-02-06, 06:02 PM
I know Jiub, and I've just recently played Oblivion, but that bit apparently managed to dodge my attention. Hmm.

Vknight
2012-02-07, 01:31 AM
I think there is one other setting that comes close to Dark Sun.

Pandora from Borderlands.
Its a setting were everything is a omnivore or carnivore no natural herbivores.
If someone doesn't go to a gate every hundred years a inter-dimensional entity will come out. Its a desert + junk planet. The place is overrun with sociopath criminals because they were used to mine the place. Food is scarce and the animals all have hides that can let them take storms of bullets. Massive cliffs. Outside of the few settlements bandits roam in control of steel mills and other facilities. And places other then that are controlled by a elite mercenary force that will kill you simply for being there. Oh and crazy people constantly come in for a legendary treasure that does not exist. The weakest natural predator leaps 40ft through the air to tackle targets and its the size of a medium dog. Some things explode, other breath fire, or lightning, or acid.
On the plus side the plants don't try to kill you. And you could have a clone machine to bring you back from the dead. Also there is a ocean with fish(Even if said oceans coast is literally a landfill). The ancient automatons or are they the race(?) only disturb you if you go treasure hunting. And you got gun lots and lots of gun.

Its not as deadly but it is close

t209
2012-02-07, 10:14 AM
Which gods are crazier?
The Tribunal from Morrowind
or
Sorcerer Kings from Dark Sun
Both settings have demigods and deadly terrain.

Leecros
2012-02-07, 10:23 AM
Which gods are crazier?
The Tribunal from Morrowind
or
Sorcerer Kings from Dark Sun
Both settings have demigods and deadly terrain.

well.....Almalexia does go on a killing spree, but that in itself does not really mean she's crazier.

From what i've read, Sotha Sil was a pretty chill dude

and vivec's....vivec.

I'm going to go with the Sorcerer Kings from Dark Sun, because outside of Almalexia after the main morrowind story. The Tribunal aren't too bad. They had their moments ( who else thought that the whole Ministry of Truth thing was a BAD Idea?), but they're rather tame otherwise.

Eldan
2012-02-07, 10:58 AM
I think the Ministry of Truth thing was pretty deliberate, actually. Some of the out-of-game fluff material, and probably also the 36 lessons hinted at the Ministry being basically Vivec blackmailing his people.

"So, see this rock? As soon as you stop worshipping me, or try to kill me, I'll drop it, destroying half the nation."

t209
2012-02-08, 08:00 PM
I think the Ministry of Truth thing was pretty deliberate, actually. Some of the out-of-game fluff material, and probably also the 36 lessons hinted at the Ministry being basically Vivec blackmailing his people.

"So, see this rock? As soon as you stop worshipping me, or try to kill me, I'll drop it, destroying half the nation."

Does Ministry of Truth (morrowwind) have influence from Big Brother's government? If the Tribunal are like Ingsoc, it will be worse than sorcerer kings.

Wookieetank
2012-02-09, 01:35 PM
I'ma throw out the Mad City from Don't Rest Your Head as equally dangerous at the very least. There's Officer Tock (has a clock for a face and uses a clock hand (think big bend size one) as a weapon), Mother When (considered by many to be ther personification of death that escaped into the Mad City when someone opened a door during the 13th hour), and the Wax King (a person seemingly made of wax, who collects memories as payment, and is looking to drown the Mad City in was) as the big movers and shakers.

Then there's the henchmen types, Clockwork Lieutenants, Tacks Man, Pin Heads, Needle Noses, Ladies in Hating, Blind Knights, and the Smothered Folk. There's also the nightmares (Awakes who have slipped into madness), the Roof Rats, and the Paper Boys. And if you take the most literal interpretation of the names of these, you'll get a general idea of what you're up against.

If the critters/inhabitants weren't bad enough just as they are, most everything in the Mad City wants you dead at best, and at worst wants to drain your memories, devour your life force, and conscript your lifeless husk into their service. On top of all that you have exhaustion working against you, and if you should fall asleep, fate worse than death is a mild description. The longer you are able to "survive" and stay awake in the city, the more madness starts to take hold, and if you lose all of your sanity, you transform into one of the nightmares.

Makes for good 1 shot adventures though that are heavy on the RP. :smallwink:

t209
2012-02-10, 09:27 PM
Here's the summary on these two settings
Darksun- Desert, Chronic War, Cannibal Halflings and Dwarves, Iron as rare metal, god kings, Old Age death celebration, Dinosaurs
Morrowind- Dark Elves, Plague Zombies, Cliff Racers, Slit Striders, Mushrooms, Iron as common metal, robots, steampunk, empire that is close to good alignment (still they didn't try to ban slavery in Morrowind but give orc civil rights), Tribunal (mixture of god kings and Ing Soc)

Leecros
2012-02-11, 12:19 AM
I think the Ministry of Truth thing was pretty deliberate, actually. Some of the out-of-game fluff material, and probably also the 36 lessons hinted at the Ministry being basically Vivec blackmailing his people.

"So, see this rock? As soon as you stop worshipping me, or try to kill me, I'll drop it, destroying half the nation."

yeah, it's in the 36 lessons i believe. Even if it WAS blackmail. He seemed to fail to take in account any possibility that wasn't the Dunmer's fault and that was what was a bad idea about it. Of course, i imagine he wasn't thinking of the possibility of him losing his divinity at some point in the future and disappearing(for various reasons depending on what turns out to be canon).

Regardless, if Vivec ever reemerges again it will be a rather large "oops" moment. Or maybe he won't care, he didn't seem to care about murdering Nerevar...even when meeting Nerevar Incarnate in person.

Barmoz
2012-02-15, 12:49 AM
I remember back when we were running the high level adventures in our Dark Sun campaign. One of TSR's adventures advertized that the players would be attempting to stop an invasion of Athas by a mysterious outside force.

Every one of our players had the same reaction, "who the hell would want to invade Dark Sun? Are they insane? They can have it as long as they let us leave first."

Which is ironic because one of the themes of my dark sun campaign is the devils and demons of the outer planes competing for influence because the baseline power of the average joe plumber all the way up to the SK's themselves are so high.

Top cat
2012-02-15, 09:32 PM
Just as a lark, can anyone name any setting more harsh than Darksun?
http://newspaper.li/static/7f2341edfd38a88c516a9a17d5713192.JPG
?
(I don't really know darksun)

t209
2012-02-16, 01:20 AM
(I don't really know darksun)
Picture yourself...
Mad Max without cars or Austrailia. Irons are so rare that only kings are allowed to own it. Everythings (including money) are rocks, clays, and bones. People who die from old age are celebrated since everyone dies from war in the setting.
Quote from The Book of Mormon the Musical:
There's war, poverty, Famine!
It's like Morrowind except dark elves, mushroom, swamps, benevolent empire, orcs, goblins, and a plague.

Arakune
2012-02-16, 08:37 AM
It's like Morrowind except dark elves, mushroom, swamps, benevolent empire, orcs, goblins, and a plague.

Benevolent anything. Literally everything in that setting is at least one degree of separation from horribly killing you.

t209
2012-02-19, 01:39 AM
Benevolent anything. Literally everything in that setting is at least one degree of separation from horribly killing you.

Well, The Empire is not portrayed as evil and gave Orcs the civil rights. Well, they kill you if you steal or assault them.