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Gorm_the_DBA
2012-01-31, 03:13 PM
Could the Giant have written his way out of the "I gotta kill Belkar within the next little bit...but he's just starting to develop as a character and be useful..." problem???
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0813.html

"You might be interested in our Qualfied Fugitive Assistance Program then"

Step one of any Witness Protection or similar program is to fake the subjects death, and declare them legally dead.

Belkar Bitterleaf would be no more, legally.

And can you really enjoy your birthday cake when it's Happy Birthday Melvin as opposed to your real name?



Just a random thought.

Math_Mage
2012-01-31, 03:50 PM
I highly doubt the Giant got himself into any sort of 'problem'. If Belkar survives under this or any other escape clause, it won't be because Rich said "Oh no, I was gonna kill him in 50 strips but now I've decided I like him too much to kill him off now!" It will be something he had in mind when he wrote the prophecy.

Anyway, I think we have some kind of Giant-sourced confirmation that the Oracle's prophecy is just what we think it is. Don't have it handy, though.

ThePhantasm
2012-01-31, 03:55 PM
No. Just... no.

Belkar is going to die.

kracken
2012-01-31, 03:58 PM
I forgot about that :(. I need to re-read the whole comic again (been a while since I have). Makes me sad to remember that Belkar has a curse on him..

Jay R
2012-01-31, 04:01 PM
Even if he does it under another name, he's still the one drawing each breath. The prophecy unambiguously said he would "draw his last breath".

And he isn't trying to write his way out of a problem. What you call a "problem" is in fact what he wanted to write.

Bulldog Psion
2012-01-31, 04:06 PM
It's intended that Belkar is going to croak. And as far as that goes, I think that he's a rather less interesting character -- because less unique -- since he's started developing, so it's not going to bother me particularly, either. I just hope he isn't too forgettable by the time he goes down.

Gorm_the_DBA
2012-01-31, 04:09 PM
Even if he does it under another name, he's still the one drawing each breath. The prophecy unambiguously said he would "draw his last breath".

The prophecy in 572 said "Belkar will draw...", which leaves the name change loophole quite open, if desired



And he isn't trying to write his way out of a problem. What you call a "problem" is in fact what he wanted to write.

OKay, this I will give you...conumdrum is perhaps a better word. .but all the same, I don't believe that the Halfling's death is as imminent as many believe.

I think the "Fugitive Assistance Program" is entirely too big to just be a throwaway joke.

Of course, I could be wrong, since my name isn't the Giant. And either way, whatever happens will be the awesome.

Siosilvar
2012-01-31, 04:12 PM
The prophecy in 572 said "Belkar will draw...", which leaves the name change loophole quite open, if desired

If you want loopholes, the Belt of Gender Change fulfills the exact wording of "his last breath", so long as he never finds a remove curse or break enchantment spell.

Bulldog Psion
2012-01-31, 04:40 PM
A couple of interesting points. Although I think Belkar's going to die, there's got to be some twist to it, if only because Roy was so sure that it was going to solve all his problems with Belkar, and his certainty was too cut and dried for it to not be subverted in some way.

Howler Dagger
2012-01-31, 05:29 PM
I think the "Fugitive Assistance Program" is entirely too big to just be a throwaway joke.

thats what everyone says about EVERY other throwaway joke. It really does get annoying.

VinRaven
2012-01-31, 05:39 PM
No. Just... no.

Belkar is going to die.

Though as Xykon has proved, being dead doesn't need to slow him down, and not needing to take another breath just means Belkar won't get winded...

Alex Warlorn
2012-01-31, 06:06 PM
Though as Xykon has proved, being dead doesn't need to slow him down, and not needing to take another breath just means Belkar won't get winded...

The Fiends won't mind having him on their team, that's for sure.

ThePhantasm
2012-01-31, 06:07 PM
Though as Xykon has proved, being dead doesn't need to slow him down, and not needing to take another breath just means Belkar won't get winded...

He's also "not long for this world." Belkar won't be undead. Its been suggested over and over and it just doesn't fit the prophecy. Belkar will be dead. Gonners. Not resurrected, not undead, just plain dead.

Diadem
2012-01-31, 06:29 PM
On the subject of Belkar:

Can the Oracle even predict Belkar's actions, and thus fate? I mean Belkar is not an NPC, he's a PC. Even a DM can not predict what a PC will do, and while a DM could always say: "Rocks fall, everybody dies" that's not something a good DM would do just to get the plot along.

So how can the oracle ever predict what is going to happen with a PC. PC's actions are not bound by the world's rules.

Cleverdan22
2012-01-31, 06:35 PM
On the subject of Belkar:

Can the Oracle even predict Belkar's actions, and thus fate? I mean Belkar is not an NPC, he's a PC. Even a DM can not predict what a PC will do, and while a DM could always say: "Rocks fall, everybody dies" that's not something a good DM would do just to get the plot along.

So how can the oracle ever predict what is going to happen with a PC. PC's actions are not bound by the world's rules.

He's an Oracle, yes he can.

Clearly he can, its been shown before. It would be so very pointless to have him literally not be an Oracle.

Tulya
2012-01-31, 06:44 PM
Other things aside, why expect anything needs 'written out of'? Developing a villainous character to make their previously wished for death have a bitter edge is not exactly unheard of as a storytelling device. I'm pretty sure it has its own tvtropes page. What is fascinating is that even many people who have been exposed to that before still seem to expect positive character growth to guarantee salvation, even in the face of absolute assertions to the contrary.

ti'esar
2012-01-31, 06:55 PM
Mind you, I'd argue that all the people who feel Belkar's death is right around the corner may also be wrong. He may or may not make it all the way to the climax, but at any rate I personally expect the next Order member to die will be Durkon.

Anarion
2012-01-31, 06:55 PM
He's an Oracle, yes he can.

Clearly he can, its been shown before. It would be so very pointless to have him literally not be an Oracle.

Not only that, but the oracle has been accurate in both the letter and spirit of his predictions thus far. Most of them were vague (e.g. Haley's "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"), but when he tried to weasel around Belkar's last prediction, it ended up with Belkar stabbing the oracle, perfectly fulfilling the prediction.

thereaper
2012-01-31, 07:10 PM
On the subject of Belkar:

Can the Oracle even predict Belkar's actions, and thus fate? I mean Belkar is not an NPC, he's a PC. Even a DM can not predict what a PC will do, and while a DM could always say: "Rocks fall, everybody dies" that's not something a good DM would do just to get the plot along.

So how can the oracle ever predict what is going to happen with a PC. PC's actions are not bound by the world's rules.

Technically, the Oracle is capable of being wrong, because his visions come from Tiamat (who, judging from the familicide episode, is clearly not omniscient).

Will the Oracle ever be wrong? Of course not. Don't be silly. His purpose in the story is to be correct.

Capt Spanner
2012-01-31, 07:12 PM
I stand by my assertion that there is plenty of time for Belkar to be around still.

The entire of WaXPs was three days IIRC. Belkar's got weeks.

He could be around for another few books yet.


Either that, or he gets kicked to death by kickstarter...

theNater
2012-01-31, 07:47 PM
A couple of interesting points. Although I think Belkar's going to die, there's got to be some twist to it, if only because Roy was so sure that it was going to solve all his problems with Belkar, and his certainty was too cut and dried for it to not be subverted in some way.
All Belkar needs to do in order to continue causing Roy grief is to die heroically. Making someone eternally regret the way they treated you is a solid way to get the last laugh.

Talvereaux
2012-01-31, 07:54 PM
The prophecy doesn't need a loophole because if it had one, there would be no good reason for it to have been introduced.

It would be bad storytelling to add such an element and iron it in place for no reason besides to 'subvert' it at the last minute. It isn't a clever twist or a red herring that way. Those would be born from the audience drawing their own conclusions, whereas the prophecy has been spelled out and leaves little to the imagination. Adding a 'twist' at this point would just make it a pointless self-contradiction that adds nothing to the story.

I also think him dying secures any concerns about whether Belkar gets his comeuppance in the span of the story. Just because he's working with the heroes and loves his cat doesn't mean he should be exempt any sort of karma for being a remorseless serial killer, just as all the villains are going to get theirs for the horrible things they've done before the story's over.

Bulldog Psion
2012-01-31, 08:21 PM
The prophecy doesn't need a loophole because if it had one, there would be no good reason for it to have been introduced.

It would be bad storytelling to add such an element and iron it in place for no reason besides to 'subvert' it at the last minute. It isn't a clever twist or a red herring that way. Those would be born from the audience drawing their own conclusions, whereas the prophecy has been spelled out and leaves little to the imagination. Adding a 'twist' at this point would just make it a pointless self-contradiction that adds nothing to the story.

I also think him dying secures any concerns about whether Belkar gets his comeuppance in the span of the story. Just because he's working with the heroes and loves his cat doesn't mean he should be exempt any sort of karma for being a remorseless serial killer, just as all the villains are going to get theirs for the horrible things they've done before the story's over.

Since you appear to be indirectly quoting my statement, I just want to point out that I think Belkar's going to die permanently. I'm just saying there's got to be some twist/subversion to the clear-cut result Roy is expecting, because he's got it all too pat.

Talvereaux
2012-01-31, 08:23 PM
I wasn't, actually, I got your meaning :smile:

Bulldog Psion
2012-01-31, 08:28 PM
I wasn't, actually, I got your meaning :smile:

Ah, okay :smallsmile:, sorry if I missed your meaning, then. I guess it was that I used "twist" and "subvert" and you used them immediately afterwards, so I thought you might be pseudo-quoting my post.

Yes, it's pretty hard to get out of "not long for this world". Last breath, birthday cake, etc. could be circumvented, but "not long for this world" is pretty conclusive. :smallamused:

Red XIV
2012-01-31, 11:01 PM
As I've said many times, the Oracle's predictions have never shown any signs of only being true on a technicality. The ones fulfilled so far have been played completely straight. It would cheapen the concept of having a perfectly accurate oracle in the world if sometimes his accuracy is only on the basis of word games. And that's ignoring all the not-so-subtle hints of Belkar's death that the Oracle dropped prior to making an official prediction.

Starwulf
2012-01-31, 11:26 PM
Hmm, I have a strong feeling that this has likely been suggested before, and probably discussed to death, but I've never taken part of any discussions regarding OOTS, but since I just got done reading it from strip 1 to current for the 2nd time, I figured I'd pop in, and this thread has caught my eye.

Anyways, I've always personally kind of believed that the Oracle was right and wrong, and that it's all already happened. That when Belkar killed the Oracle and activated the mark of justice, it was pretty obvious he was getting extremely sick, and in my eyes, very close to dying. As a matter of fact, I think if it hadn't been for old man Shojo appearing to the Belkster in a fever dream, he would have died. After his discussion with Belkar, and the ensuing removal of the mark of justice, it would seem to me that that Belkar escaped certain death, but only through mystical means that transcend what the Oracle could predict. Also, you could possibly interpret it as "The old Belkar drew his last breath, and was born again a new(well, very slightly changed at any rate) Belkar, with more purpose then before.

So, I don't really see Belkar dying, now, or anytime at all, unless it's part of a massive death scene of most of the OOTS(Or all of them), and that it won't be because of the Oracles prediction but because they all had to give their lives in a heroic sacrifice to stop the snarl from being released.

OPM
2012-02-01, 12:27 AM
If it hadn't already been done with the last Oracle prediction of doom, I would've liked to see them going through all the loopholes by having a girdle-using legally-name-changed "Belkette" find that ioun stone that lets you survive without air and holding her breath to avoid ever smelling the rest of the party again.


Right before fiend-controlled-V uses the disintegrate/gust of wind combo to avoid being exposed to the rest of the party, only to make some excuse about the incident that unravels later to great dramatic effect.

Or something like that...

Diadem
2012-02-01, 12:55 AM
He's an Oracle, yes he can.

Clearly he can, its been shown before. It would be so very pointless to have him literally not be an Oracle.
Very well. I guess what I was doing was questioning the entire existence of an oracle. But the story clearly has an oracle. So yeah. Still, it's weird. It's pretty clearly established the OOTS are PCs. They should not be predictable, not even by Tiamat.

Anyway. The oracle's prediction, if I remember correctly, is that Belkar is be drawing his last breath ever within a year. That doesn't necessarily mean permanent death. He might become a lich (or some other variety of undead. Lich seems to make most sense within the story though).

I'm not quite sure if that would fit Belkar's character. He's evil enough, and he loves killing. But he does seem to enjoy the little things in life, such as food, a bit too much to give them up. Belkar as a lich would be an interesting move though.

Bulldog Psion
2012-02-01, 01:14 AM
This has been debated so much and in such detail that I don't feel like refuting your ideas, which have been brought up and argued down about 200 million times by now. :smallsigh: I respectfully suggest that you hunt up a few of the thousand or so other "Belkar isn't going to die" threads and you can see this conversation repeating itself over and over and over again, ad nauseum, with exactly the same arguments and the same responses .... :smallannoyed:

Adanedhel
2012-02-01, 04:13 AM
Hmm, that Belkar is going to die goes without question, but the assistency program might be important anyway :)

What if Kill-Kill himself has been from that program of highly skilled people? He might be a lot stronger then expected, but just laying low, and be able to kill Belkar easily? I'm not saying be any means this should or will happen, but I would think it to be appropiate, then, I'm not as good a storyteller as Rich is :)

B. Dandelion
2012-02-01, 04:14 AM
I could accept a prophecy twist, but there's a difference between Exact Words (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExactWords) and "From a Certain Point of View... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FromACertainPointOfView)" The one is to be expected and can be clever. The other... isn't any kind of sneaky wordplay, really, it's just inventing a pedantic technicality on the spot.

Ashtagon
2012-02-01, 05:00 AM
Belker could...

* Die and come back as undead
* Wear that gender changing belt
* Change his name

Any one of these would satisfy the exact wording of the prophecy.

oppyu
2012-02-01, 05:22 AM
If Rich doesn't want to kill Belkar, he can just say that the snarky kobold who already disliked Roy and Durkon when he made the prediction was lying. No need for a loophole there.

B. Dandelion
2012-02-01, 05:54 AM
There is nothing about a statement like "Belkar will draw his last breath ever" that in any way could be interpreted to mean something as convoluted and ridiculous as "the entity known as Belkar will cease to use the moniker "Belkar" and thus no longer could be said to 'breathe'." That's not what word play means. That is to play on a double meaning of a word -- the word "serve" as in "to serve man" can mean more than one thing. "Him" does not, in any dictionary, mean "the existence of a person as solely defined by their continued use of one specific name". Or any of the other convoluted "meanings" people try to claim are possible.

You can do a story like that, you can have a character say something and then do the "from a certain point of view" rationalization that somehow makes "Darth Vader killed your father" something that we shouldn't just call factually untrue, but it's not word play, and a lot of people are going to call shenanigans on it. I don't think the Giant is likely to pull such a stunt, and I don't think there's any legitimate way to not kill Belkar off while still technically following the letter of the prophecy.

Heksefatter
2012-02-01, 06:23 AM
I am just going to say that I will be hugely disappointed if Belkar survives on a cheap technicality of any sort. We've already seen them in so many stories and they aren't that interesting.

The only results that I can "accept" is one of:

1) Belkar dies.
2) Something genuinely surprising happens. And that does not include gender-flipping, undeath or whatever.

ThePhantasm
2012-02-01, 07:45 AM
Belker could...

* Die and come back as undead
* Wear that gender changing belt
* Change his name

Any one of these would satisfy the exact wording of the prophecy.

No, none of those would satisfy the exact wording. "He's not long for this world."

martianmister
2012-02-01, 12:37 PM
No, none of those would satisfy the exact wording. "He's not long for this world."

He is talking about Belker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belker).

Manga Maniac
2012-02-01, 12:52 PM
Ahah, what if, after changing his name, becoming undead and having a sex change... he also moved to another world.

...

Or, you know, he could just die. That too, I suppose.

Valyrian
2012-02-01, 01:18 PM
On the subject of Belkar:

Can the Oracle even predict Belkar's actions, and thus fate? I mean Belkar is not an NPC, he's a PC. Even a DM can not predict what a PC will do, and while a DM could always say: "Rocks fall, everybody dies" that's not something a good DM would do just to get the plot along.

So how can the oracle ever predict what is going to happen with a PC. PC's actions are not bound by the world's rules.
In the OOTS verse, "PC" is just a funny word for protagonist. There are neither players nor a DM, and the members of the Order are just as bound to the rules of the world as everyone else.

MesiDoomstalker
2012-02-01, 01:50 PM
In the OOTS verse, "PC" is just a funny word for protagonist. There are neither players nor a DM, and the members of the Order are just as bound to the rules of the world as everyone else.

They are also bound to the rules of drama just like everybody else. And those rules are different based on your relevance to the story. Protagonists or "PC's" are given certain immunities and abilities that few others recieve (major villians recieve them as well). But said immunities and abilities are not all powerful or everlasting. Sometimes they do run out. Belkar's has just been conviently predicted and given a time frame for which said failure will occur.

Golt
2012-02-01, 01:56 PM
OK, here's an idea. It may be a bit far-fetched, but...
What if this literally happens:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0439.html

He won't be breathing anymore, won't be for this world anymore, and I'm pretty sure he won't be having birthday parties.

Bulldog Psion
2012-02-01, 03:39 PM
OK, here's an idea. It may be a bit far-fetched, but...
What if this literally happens:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0439.html

He won't be breathing anymore, won't be for this world anymore, and I'm pretty sure he won't be having birthday parties.

These threads have been there and done that. Probably about 2 billion times, at a minimum. :smallsigh:

Lord Seth
2012-02-01, 03:51 PM
Even if he does it under another name, he's still the one drawing each breath. The prophecy unambiguously said he would "draw his last breath".No, the oracle said Belkar will draw his last breath. A name change would fix that. I doubt the comic will go down that path (particularly considering the oracle did say that he's "not long for this world"), but it would technically fit the prophecy.
No, none of those would satisfy the exact wording. "He's not long for this world."That wasn't technically the prophecy, though, that was just a comment the Oracle made.

Though I do note that in both the official prophecy and the comment, the word die isn't used. "Not long for this world" is said and "Belkar will breathe his last breath" is used, but not "Belkar will die". I can't help but think that there's going to be some kind of twist coming as a result.

Red XIV
2012-02-01, 07:07 PM
The Oracle also said that Belkar shouldn't bother funding his IRA (implying that he won't live long enough to retire) and that he should savor his next birthday cake (implying that it'll be his last). Taken all together, I don't see much room for a twist on the prophecy.

And it doesn't matter whether a future prediction by the Oracle was "official" or not. He can see into the future just fine without going into the green-speech-bubble trance. Hence his ability to understand Haley's cryptograms by looking into the future and reading the print compilation. And knowing when angry customers will murder him so that the lizardfolk cleric can pop in and raise him. What makes an official prediction different is that it's exempted from the memory charm.

As for not using the word "die", you've got to remember that in a D&D-based world, dying doesn't imply permanence. Anybody whose friends have a few thousand GP worth of diamonds and access to a mid-level Cleric can come back from death. The Oracle's comments, in addition to being snide, give the impression that it's not a temporary death he's talking about.

Math_Mage
2012-02-01, 07:40 PM
As for not using the word "die", you've got to remember that in a D&D-based world, dying doesn't imply permanence. Anybody whose friends have a few thousand GP worth of diamonds and access to a mid-level Cleric can come back from death. The Oracle's comments, in addition to being snide, give the impression that it's not a temporary death he's talking about.

Who would raise Belkar, though?

veti
2012-02-01, 08:17 PM
Belkar will be dead. Gonners. Not resurrected, not undead, just plain dead.

Just like Roy was, for >200 strips.

Didn't stop him from appearing in >40 of them.

MesiDoomstalker
2012-02-01, 08:21 PM
Just like Roy was, for >200 strips.

Didn't stop him from appearing in >40 of them.

If Belkar gets afterlife strips, it will be for a few different reasons:


It will be plot revelant
It will be bonus strips in a book he dies in
He will come back in some shape or form (personally I doubt this option)


If his afterlife serves none of these functions, there is small possibilty we will see him in the afterlife. Then again, I'm not the Giant and there is a good possibility I'm missing something, either I didn't consider or has not been revealed.

Bulldog Psion
2012-02-01, 08:38 PM
That is an interesting point, though. The only official prophecy is, "Belkar will draw his last breath ever before the end of the year". The rest is non-prophetic commentary, basically.

Mind you, I think he's still doomed, but it is interesting to note that "not long for this world" is not prophetic, and just a supporting, unofficial comment.

ThePhantasm
2012-02-01, 09:49 PM
Just like Roy was, for >200 strips.

Didn't stop him from appearing in >40 of them.

Oh, I'm almost 100% sure we'll see Belkar in the afterlife. But unlike Roy, he won't be resurrected.

AgentofHellfire
2012-02-01, 10:03 PM
Has anyone yet mentioned the fact that the Oracle makes deliberately misleading predictions?

Meaning, if he says someone "will draw his last breath", it's infinitely more likely Belkar will find some way to stop needing to breathe than it is that he will die.

Because if he did die, then the Oracle's prediction would be perfectly honest, which, as I recall, isn't supposed to happen.

AgentofHellfire
2012-02-01, 10:09 PM
The Oracle also said that Belkar shouldn't bother funding his IRA (implying that he won't live long enough to retire)

Or he'll just have to work the rest of his life...or any such savings will be appropriated by someone else...



and that he should savor his next birthday cake (implying that it'll be his last). Taken all together, I don't see much room for a twist on the prophecy.


Or that he'll be undead, so birthdays wouldn't really apply, or that doing more to get to his birthday cake than he otherwise would will in fact be extremely good for him.

KillianHawkeye
2012-02-01, 11:00 PM
That doesn't necessarily mean permanent death. He might become a lich (or some other variety of undead. Lich seems to make most sense within the story though).

I'm not quite sure if that would fit Belkar's character. He's evil enough, and he loves killing. But he does seem to enjoy the little things in life, such as food, a bit too much to give them up. Belkar as a lich would be an interesting move though.

Belkar doesn't qualify to become a Lich on account of his caster level being too low. I'm also 99.999% positive that he won't be taking the Craft Wondrous Item feat anytime soon (needed to make the phylactery).

Besides, this comic's not big enough for two Liches. :xykon:

LensmanRob
2012-02-03, 01:40 PM
There's that awesome spell Reincarnation. Everyone's favorite way to turn into a trogolodyte.

Also, there's the world in the rift (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html).

Belkar would not be in this world.

Whatever conclusion is required could require both sides of the rift.

ThePhantasm
2012-02-03, 01:45 PM
Egads, this thread just goes in circles, doesn't it?

Cranica
2012-02-03, 02:26 PM
Good lord does this fandom have a capacity for denial. I'm surprised I haven't seen a "Belkar is actually Miko in disguise who is totally Chaotic Good" thread yet.

theNater
2012-02-03, 03:57 PM
Has anyone yet mentioned the fact that the Oracle makes deliberately misleading predictions?

Meaning, if he says someone "will draw his last breath", it's infinitely more likely Belkar will find some way to stop needing to breathe than it is that he will die.

Because if he did die, then the Oracle's prediction would be perfectly honest, which, as I recall, isn't supposed to happen.
The Oracle's predictions aren't misleading, they're just unhelpful. All the prophecies we've seen resolved mean exactly what they seem to mean.

suzaliscious
2012-02-05, 08:50 PM
... The Oracle plays it straight. OotS is awesome for many reasons and one of them is subverting the technicality trope that fortune tellers employ in lesser works.

Seriously, Belkar will die, and it will be awesome. His last words ands will have a profound impact on his party - Roy in particular - and I will cry. He will not be resurrected.

ThePhantasm
2012-02-05, 09:07 PM
.Seriously, Belkar will die, and it will be awesome. His last words ands will have a profound impact on his party - Roy in particular - and I will cry. He will not be resurrected.

Yeah, I'm hoping it goes down like that. I have a feeling his death may turn out being the "Kraagor's Death" of this party. Except perhaps instead of driving the Order apart it will unite them further. I don't know, it just sounds cool in my head.

Edric O
2012-02-06, 02:05 AM
Belkar will die, but there's no real reason to expect him to die soon (in terms of the number of strips). The entire Western Continent plot arc could be resolved in just a single in-universe week - or perhaps two - giving Belkar plenty of time to be alive until the Order gets to Kraagor's Gate or somewhere close to it.

In other words, Belkar might not die until the climax of the story.

GSFB
2012-02-06, 02:12 AM
Belkar may be about die within the next few weeks of "story" time, but that could easily be hundreds of panels or a few years in reality time. I see no problem.

The MunchKING
2012-02-06, 03:03 AM
Still, it's weird. It's pretty clearly established the OOTS are PCs. They should not be predictable, not even by Tiamat.


Why?? They're PCs, not Anyanka.

The MunchKING
2012-02-06, 03:10 AM
Because if he did die, then the Oracle's prediction would be perfectly honest, which, as I recall, isn't supposed to happen.

He lives in Lickmyorangeballs, not Delephi. There's nothing saying his perdictions aren't honest.

sparkyinbozo
2012-02-08, 07:55 PM
This has probably been suggested before, but my money is on Belkar ticking off Xykon, Xykon killing Belkar, and then a Soul Bind. This'd give the order just that much more motivation to stop him ASAP.

Jay R
2012-02-08, 09:48 PM
This just gets funnier and funnier. It keeps growing like a kickstarter fund.


Could the Giant have written his way out of ...


If Rich doesn't want to kill Belkar, ...

Rich does want to kill Belkar, and he's not trying to write his way out of it. You are all looking for a way for Rich to subvert the author's intention. He isn't going to. Rich is the author. The prophecy was his own intention.


On the subject of Belkar:

Can the Oracle even predict Belkar's actions, and thus fate? I mean Belkar is not an NPC, he's a PC. Even a DM can not predict what a PC will do, and while a DM could always say: "Rocks fall, everybody dies" that's not something a good DM would do just to get the plot along.

So how can the oracle ever predict what is going to happen with a PC. PC's actions are not bound by the world's rules.

Because there is an author. This isn't really a D&D game; it's a story based on the D&D milieu. Every single action is determined by the same person who wrote the prophecy. There are no players to mess up the DM's plan. There is a single author, and all attempts to show how he could stop writing the story he wants to write and write some other story instead crash on the fact that this is, in fact, his story.

Ulysses WkAmil
2012-02-08, 11:42 PM
I made this assumption a few months back, athough I didn't put any thought as to how important the QFAP was to it, I again assumed it might be half/half foreshadowing /joke.

Ashtagon
2012-02-09, 08:50 AM
The MitD is a time-reversed version of Belker, so when Belker becomes the MitD, he will technically no longer be going into the future, so won't be breathing any more.

No sillier than any other speculation, really.