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View Full Version : What Epic spells would Xykon most likely research?



Da'Shain
2012-02-02, 02:37 PM
So we know he has Superb Dispelling, Cloister and, based on O'Chul's list, most likely Epic Mage Armor. The Superb Dispelling he most likely researched on his own when he became epic, so that he could destroy other casters that much more easily; Cloister he appears to have learned from Dorukan's dungeon in some fashion (whether he researched it himself after seeing what Dorukan's did, or if Dorukan inscribed it somewhere, we don't know); and Epic Mage Armor he's almost certainly researched in the time after his defeat in the Azure City throne room, as if he'd had that up he'd likely have won.

While it's fairly likely those are his only 3, I figured we could have a thread to speculate about what kind of epic spells Xykon might also have/would research given the time and money, using the rules for epic spellcasting (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicSpells.htm). Because we always need more speculation threads, yessir.

To start with, I'll go with a simple one that I'd call "Wightmaker". Based on the Slay seed, it uses Xykon's favorite tactic: level draining maliciously. Assuming that Xykon's Superb Dispelling has the same Spellcraft DC as the one in the SRD, I tailored this one so that Xykon can meet it as well.

Wightmaker
Necomancy [Death]
Spellcraft DC: 25 (base) + 18 (full round action casting time) +16 (4 extra dice) = 59
Components: V, S
Casting Time: Full-round action
Range: 300 ft.
Target: One living creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude half
Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: 531,000 gp, 11 days, 21,240 xp. Seeds: Slay.

Caster bestows 6d4 negative levels on the target. Simple enough.


I'd also be surprised if he didn't have some version of Rain of Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/rainOfFire.htm) by the end of the comic, considering it's right up his alley.

Gorm_the_DBA
2012-02-02, 06:27 PM
Cloister is not necessarily one of Xykon's spells, he has it through a Magic Item. See http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html

Math_Mage
2012-02-02, 07:09 PM
Cloister is not necessarily one of Xykon's spells, he has it through a Magic Item. See http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html

It was only the FOCUS for Cloister, as far as we know. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) In order for Xykon to use it as the material focus for Cloister, he still had to 'master the spell himself' in the first place. And I think there are rules about how Epic spells can be used that prevent the circlet from being a carrier of the Cloister spell.

Kish
2012-02-02, 08:19 PM
Rules like, "You can't put an epic spell in a magic item"? Yes.

That description of Rain of Fire conjures up a hilarious image of someone making a Reflex save each round to dodge every drop of rain in a rainstorm.

:roy:It's pouring! How are you dry?
:haley: My Reflex save is well over +30.

Ancalagon
2012-02-03, 03:20 AM
I am very convinced Xykon has another epic spell left. One that "damages". Or as he would put it, puts as much concentrated power in one spot as possible.

But I doubt it's a negative energy spell. His maximised energy drain is already overkill enough and on top of that (or below that) he has a real lot of Energy Drains via his 9th level spell slopts available (+ his 10th and 11th spell slot).

Why stack just another Energy Drain on top of that? It makes no sense, imo. I think the "Epic Power Spell" of which I am convinced that Xykon has it is probably more something that deals plain HP-damage (think of a Powered Disintegrate) by magic (no fire or other element).
The reason I think Xykon has such a spell is that I think it is unlikely he would research two non-direct-power-at-someone-spells but leave his favourite thing out: Defense simply is not Xykon's main stick.

The cloister is cleary Dorukan's doing. Yes, Xykon had to research something in addition the focus but given Dorukan was a wizard, I bet Xykon was able to read his extensive notes while sitting around in the Redmountain Dungeon for months. Having the extensive notes (and the focus) probably made research much, much easier and I doubt you should apply the rules for researching epic spells here. Xykon basically got that one for free.

edit: And I very much doubt Rain of Fire is Xykon's thing. Why should he bother to kill every farmer or low-level schmuck quickly and everyone over time in a 2 mile radius when he has a problem right here and right now? Everyone who is a threat against Xykon has the means of escaping (or still making it to the throne room) through a Rain of Fire (and be it by drinking healing potions and walking there).
Rain of Fire is more something when you want to make the local Duke angry or burn away his base of operations (and also to show how mean some villian is by killing all those farmers around). Xykon is more "I kill a bunch of people here and do not bother further"-type. Or he just raises and army and watches them doing whatever he wants to do the classical way).
His epic spell is more going to be a "one person or a small group dies for sure"-thing.

Once&FutureKing
2012-02-03, 04:52 AM
Xykon is one of my favourite characters, but I think it needs to be said that he is horribly optimized, and alot of his wins come about via luck/plot, rather than any genuine skill. I think alot of people here hugely overrate Xykon's "genius" just because he is smarter than he looks at first glance (which is a super low burden).

I'm sure he will continue to develop plot necessary spells and items, I am even interested when he does, because there's a certain enjoyment I take in being able to further flesh out the abilities of the characters. That said, it's a little silly how he keeps getting new and fantastic powers bestowed on him. He's rapidly scaled from a low 20's sorcerer to someone who at a minimum is level 27, very possibly around level 35 (depending on whether he forged this epic ring of fire immunity), and higher still if he gets more Epic spells and slots. At a certain point it becomes kind of silly, and my personal feel is it takes away a little from the plot. It just feels a little like the author is trolling us, by constantly giving Xykon new advantages (which don't always make much sense in lieu of the earlier plot, where he didn't use them), rather than just telling a good story and letting us all enjoy Xykon as a character.

And yes, Xykon had to learn Cloister, there is no such thing as an Epic spell in a headband, that's just the focus. Xykon has 3 such spells.

FlawedParadigm
2012-02-03, 08:45 AM
Momento Mori
Necromancy [Death]
Spellcraft DC: 86
Components: None
Casting Time: 1 quickened action
Range: 300 ft.
Target: One living creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: 774,000 gp; 16 days; 30,960 XP. Seed: slay (DC 25). Factor: increase to 160 HD (+8 DC), quickened (+28 DC), no verbal or somatic components (+4 DC), +10 to DC of subjectís save (+20 DC).

As a free action that counts as a quickened spell, the character wills the target dead without a word or gesture. The characterís thought snuffs out the life force of a living creature of 160 or fewer HD, killing it instantly. The subject is entitled to a Fortitude saving throw (DC 30 + relevant ability modifier) to have a chance of surviving the attack. If the save is successful, the target instead takes 3d6+20 points of damage.


(And the Quickened part can be easily dropped to make for a very manageable 58 DC.)



Crown Of Vermin
Conjuration (Summoning)
Spellcraft DC: 56
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Personal
Effect: Aura of one thousand insects that surrounds you in a 10-ft.-radius spread
Duration: 20 rounds (D)
Saving Throw: None (see text)
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 504,000 gp; 11 days; 20,160 XP. Seeds: summon (DC 14), fortify (DC 17). Factors: summon vermin mass instead of one creature (ad hoc +8 DC), grant damage reduction 1/epic (+15 DC), allow mass to move at your speed (ad hoc +2 DC), perfect control of vermin (ad hoc +2 DC). Mitigating factor: change range to personal (-2 DC).

After casting crown of vermin, one thousand venomous, biting and stinging spiders, scorpions, beetles, and centipedes erupt from the very air around the character. This swarm forms a living aura around the character to a radius of 10 feet. The character is immune to his or her own crown of vermin. The swarm goes where the character goes at his or her speed, even if the character takes to the air or water (though water drowns the vermin after 1 full round of immersion, unless the spell is cast underwater, in which case aquatic or marine vermin answer the call and cannot leave the water). Each vermin in the crown of vermin bites a creature who enters the area occupied by the effect (or the character forces the effect into an area occupied by another creature) for 1 point of damage, and then dies. Each victim takes enough points of damage to kill it, destroying that number of vermin in the process. Victims get a Reflex saving throw each round to avoid the full press, and if successful, take only 10d10 bites (and 10d10 points of damage). A total of 1,000 points of damage can be dealt to those who fall prey to the crown of vermin. The vermin have damage reduction 1/epic, so the verminís natural weapons are treated as epic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. If there arenít enough vermin to kill all the creatures in the spellís effect, the creature with the fewest hit points is affected first, then the creature with the second fewest hit points, and so on. After all creatures that can be killed have been killed, any remaining damage is distributed among the survivors equally.

The character has utter control over the vermin in his or her aura, and can force them into areas that would normally deter common vermin. The character can completely suppress his or her vermin aura as a free action so that no vermin are visible at all. The time that vermin are suppressed does not count toward the spellís duration. Alternatively, the character can roughly shape and move the vermin in any fashion he or she desires within the limits of the 10-foot-radius spread as a move-equivalent action. The vermin cannot be wrested from the characterís control through any means. The vermin make all saving throws to avoid damaging effects using the characterís base saving throw bonuses. They gain the characterís spell resistance, if any, and they get saving throws against spells that would otherwise automatically slay vermin. A character can see through his or her crown of vermin without difficulty, but gains one-half concealment against enemy attacks launched both outside and within the characterís crown of vermin.



Animus Blast
Evocation [Cold]
Spellcraft DC: 50
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 300 ft.
Area: 20-ft.-radius hemisphere burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: 450,000 gp; 9 days; 18,000 XP. Seeds: energy (DC 19), animate dead (DC 23). Factors: set undead type to skeleton (-12 DC), 1-action casting time (+20 DC).

When this spell is cast, enemies within range are dealt 10d6 points of cold damage. However, up to twenty of those victims that perish as a result of this blast are then instantly animated as Medium skeletons. These skeletons serve the character indefinitely. The character cannot exceed the normal limit for controlling undead through use of this spell, but other means that allow the character to exceed the normal limit for controlled undead work just as well with undead created with animus blast.



Momento Mori is about as big a magical hammer as one can wield at < 60 DC spells (without the Quicken) so naturally Xykon would like that. Xykon's already a fan of killing lots of weak creatures whenever possible - I mean he actually has Cloudkill! So Crown of Vermin (which has the side bonus of granting concealment) and Animus Blast seem like just his style.

Once&FutureKing
2012-02-03, 08:54 AM
I am not at all convinced all those spells are within the reach of Xykon, mainly Momento Mori. Some of them would also make the story impossible to function.

SpacemanSpif
2012-02-03, 09:41 AM
So, if Dorukan's headband doesn't actually hold the spell, what purpose does it serve as a material focus? Would it be just fluff, or do we think it could be an ad hoc mitigating factor to decrease the spellcraft DC?

I think we can assume it's a magic item, and it took gold, experience, and time to create. I suppose that might have been considered rolled into the development costs of the spell, but since creating a magic item requires particular feats and skills, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Maybe it was crafted as an item that holds a spell of a high slot, and acts as if it's a second caster contributing a spell of that slot? Maybe it reduces the experience cost or spellcraft dc like a rod of excellent magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rods.htm#excellentMagic) or epic spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rods.htm#epicSpellcaster), respectively- but only for this one spell?

I realize that the rules take a backseat to the storytelling, I just want to know what people with more experience with the system would think.

Ancalagon
2012-02-03, 10:01 AM
I am not at all convinced all those spells are within the reach of Xykon, mainly Momento Mori. Some of them would also make the story impossible to function.

Why? Do you have reasons?

If you drop the "quickened" part, you end up at nearly the same DC as Superb Dispelling. And we have proof that one is in reach of Xykon (he already used it on screen).


Would it be just fluff, or do we think it could be an ad hoc mitigating factor to decrease the spellcraft DC?

I think it is the latter. It also is stylish.

FlawedParadigm
2012-02-03, 10:13 AM
Heh. I even mentioned dropping the Quickened part twice and it still got missed. But given the Zombie Ogres episode, Animus Blast, a spell which kills and reanimates in one shot, seems exactly like his style. But yeah, I kept all possible spells under 60 DC because unless he specifically has a so-far-unmentioned magic item specifically for +spellcraft, that's about the most one might assume he could reasonably reach unless he's even higher level than speculated.

Douglas
2012-02-03, 10:47 AM
Just dropping the Quickened part with no replacement means you end up with a spell that takes 10 rounds to cast. The +28 for Quickened is instead of the more normal +20 for a standard action, and if you don't have either the default is 1 minute. Going from Quickened to standard action is only a reduction of 8.

LensmanRob
2012-02-03, 01:21 PM
Considering his affection for Meteor Swarm, is there something that juices that up out there? Maybe "Comet Swarm"?

Ancalagon
2012-02-03, 01:58 PM
Not really. The epic spells use the Slay, Destruction, or Elemental Seeds and practical spells that significantly increase the damage over Meteor Swarm quickly get DCs that are higher than what we currently attribute to Xykon.

Of course, given how the rules are treated here, it is very possible Xykon shows up with some DC 80+ epic destruction spell that clearly surpasses Meteor Swarm.

It is interesting to note that Xykon's epic spells do seem to have come from the official branch. So the stuff listed here as examples probably is a good guide what we could expect.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/momentoMori.htm would not surprise me, and neither would http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/hellball.htm or something. Throw in some homebrew and adjusting or plot-tweaking and we are there.
Hellball is more unlikely as it does nothing from a plot-point of view that a Meteor-Swarm or so does not.

Math_Mage
2012-02-03, 03:01 PM
Anything that uses the Destroy seed is a valid candidate, IMO. That includes custom spells.


Xykon is one of my favourite characters, but I think it needs to be said that he is horribly optimized, and alot of his wins come about via luck/plot, rather than any genuine skill. I think alot of people here hugely overrate Xykon's "genius" just because he is smarter than he looks at first glance (which is a super low burden).

I'm sure he will continue to develop plot necessary spells and items, I am even interested when he does, because there's a certain enjoyment I take in being able to further flesh out the abilities of the characters. That said, it's a little silly how he keeps getting new and fantastic powers bestowed on him. He's rapidly scaled from a low 20's sorcerer to someone who at a minimum is level 27, very possibly around level 35 (depending on whether he forged this epic ring of fire immunity), and higher still if he gets more Epic spells and slots. At a certain point it becomes kind of silly, and my personal feel is it takes away a little from the plot. It just feels a little like the author is trolling us, by constantly giving Xykon new advantages (which don't always make much sense in lieu of the earlier plot, where he didn't use them), rather than just telling a good story and letting us all enjoy Xykon as a character.

And yes, Xykon had to learn Cloister, there is no such thing as an Epic spell in a headband, that's just the focus. Xykon has 3 such spells.

>comes to a thread about Xykon's possible Epic repertoire
>complains about the plot

wat

Once&FutureKing
2012-02-03, 04:57 PM
Just dropping the Quickened part with no replacement means you end up with a spell that takes 10 rounds to cast. The +28 for Quickened is instead of the more normal +20 for a standard action, and if you don't have either the default is 1 minute. Going from Quickened to standard action is only a reduction of 8.

+1

(though in fairness, I did miss the "remove the quickening" part)

ti'esar
2012-02-03, 06:05 PM
Personally, I'm not sure what the "story" point of Memento Mori would be - it's essentially just a really, really over-the-top save-or-die spell. Animus Blast, IMO, would be both more interesting and seems more up Xykon's alley.

Capt Spanner
2012-02-04, 10:40 AM
I reckon Xykon's been researching how to make a new phylactery. :smalltongue:


Rules like, "You can't put an epic spell in a magic item"? Yes.

That description of Rain of Fire conjures up a hilarious image of someone making a Reflex save each round to dodge every drop a rain in a rainstorm.

:roy:It's pouring! How are you dry?
:haley: My Reflex save is well over +30.

I tried something similar to this in a game of Supernatural. An explosion knocked us into a wall and - because I dodge like a ninja - I tried to dodge the wall.

Despite rolling high enough to achieve an "impossible" dodge, the still disallowed it. :smallannoyed: