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GenericGuy
2012-02-10, 05:45 PM
Say youíre suddenly endowed with ability to rewrite a comic, novel, film, TV series, etc. to be more to your liking. Maybe itís a series with great premise, but it was poorly executed, the main character dragged it down, the series finale was hugely disappointing, or such. Maybe itís a little thing, some character trait or backstory to one of the characters you think would add more layers to the piece. Point is youíre given complete control of the piece fiction, what do you do differently?
Some of mine

Superman: I never liked how Krypton blew up just a few years ago. Iíve always thought it would interesting if Kryptonians were one of the earliest intelligent life in the Galaxy, and their world was destroyed millions upon millions of years ago, but because of relativistic speeds and suspended animation Superman arrives on modern day earth.

Star Trek Voyager: This might be a long one.

The setting: make the Borg the dominant force throughout the Delta quadrant, theyíre everywhere. But Borg being Borg they ignore Voyager as being inconsequential. The Borg have already taken out the homeworlds of every major race in the quadrant, and hold the plants/asteroids/Oort clouds with the most resources. All thatís left are the colonies of the conquered races desperately trying to find enough resources to survive, as the Borg strip mine everything. The Borg arenít as ďassimilation happyĒ because theyíve already won, itís just a manor of time before they bother adding all the individuals left into the collective, why rush? Some even willingly join the Borg, after coming around to this fatalistic outlook.

Characters

Chakotay: Much older and far more experienced captain, was considered one of the great captains of the Federation before he went turn coat. Takes on a much more mentor role for a much younger and inexperienced Janeway, but she canít totally rely on him as he may an excuse to lead an insurrection with the Maqui crew.

There is more, but I donít want my ideas to be the focus of the thread (although some criticism is always welcome). I want to know your guys ideas.

Axolotl
2012-02-10, 06:08 PM
I'd make the film AI 5 minutes shorter. Anyone who's seen it should understand why.

Tiki Snakes
2012-02-10, 06:31 PM
Voyager?
Re-cast Janeway. Then everyone else, except the doctor. And possibly Seven of Nine. All of the Writers get fired too, and directors, and etc etc.

AI - Actually, I have seen it and I don't understand why. But admittedly, that's because I remember very very little of the film, so at this point may as well have never seen it in the first place.

Star-Wars, the prequels?
Everything.
[edit] With one exception; I quite liked the Dual of the Fates piece from the Phantom Menace, it's quite good starwars music actually.

GenericGuy
2012-02-10, 06:39 PM
Voyager?
Re-cast Janeway. Then everyone else, except the doctor. And possibly Seven of Nine. All of the Writers get fired too, and directors, and etc etc.

I donít think Kate Mulgrew (the actress) is responsible for the mess that is Janeway. She even said that she thinks the character is bipolar, given how inconsistent she is from episode to episode.



Star-Wars, the prequels?
Everything.
[edit] With one exception; I quite liked the Dual of the Fates piece from the Phantom Menace, it's quite good starwars music actually.

I would prefer more specifics. I want actual ideas, not "I didn't like this part" statements:smallfrown:.

Dumbledore lives
2012-02-10, 06:49 PM
I'd make the Iron Giant about 30 seconds shorter, because very few people remember the last bit and it is totally unnecessary anyway.

For the Star Wars prequel the first thing would be to age Anakin up 10 years, I don't remember where I heard this idea but it adds a lot more credence to the things he does in episode 1, and makes the rivalry between him and Obi-Won much more believable, as well as ditching a child actor, which really is for the best.

Next would be to get George away from all romantic dialogue, and get some writers who can actually write it. This will help with episode 2. Then bump up the numbers because a couple million clones for a galaxy equals a lost war. Also integrate some of Darths & Droids ideas here, they have a decent plot-line that makes sense, and has better and more believable villains.

Finally make Vader's descent much slower, gradual instead of murdering children as his first act. Also don't make it so damn obvious. Get rid of some of the narm such as Ultimate Power and fix some of the dialogue and you have a decent film. These are only a few suggestions and Plinkett's reviews have a huge amount more, but I think that the prequels are not that far off from being good movies, but that the little things make all the difference.

GenericGuy
2012-02-10, 06:54 PM
All good ideas, but given your user name I thought a certain fantasy series was going to have a certain character survive throughout:smalltongue:.

An Enemy Spy
2012-02-10, 06:56 PM
I would prefer more specifics. I want actual ideas, not "I didn't like this part" statements:smallfrown:.

I would completely rewrite Jar Jar's character to make him useful, like that other Gungan guy who's name I don't remember. No lame slapstick, no stupid lines, Jar Jar would the prequel version's Chewie.

Anikan would be played by the kid from AI and Sixth Sense instead of Jake Lloyd. R2-D2 would have rocket boosters in all six movies. Hell yes, that part was awesome!

Jango Fett would survive to at least RotS. In fact, forget Boba. Make Jango the main bounty hunter all the way through. Guy's a bamf.

Grievous wouldn't have that cough. Obi Wan wouldn't change in the slightest. I love him.

Let Qui-Qon survive. I love him too. Liam Neeson, your time with Star Wars was brief but memorable. Also, your character hates Jar Jar as much as everyone else does.

Sio Bibble should be a villian. I'm on to you, Bubble!

Make the battle droids competant. Droideka's and SBDs are cool, but they don't have enough screentime to offset the uselessness of the normal droids.

As far as changing ewverything? Get off the bias horse. Those movies aren't the greatest things in the world but they aren't even a tenth as bad as everyone makes them out to be. There's still a lot of cool parts in episodes 1-3.

An Enemy Spy
2012-02-10, 07:04 PM
I'd make the Iron Giant about 30 seconds shorter, because very few people remember the last bit and it is totally unnecessary anyway.

For the Star Wars prequel the first thing would be to age Anakin up 10 years, I don't remember where I heard this idea but it adds a lot more credence to the things he does in episode 1, and makes the rivalry between him and Obi-Won much more believable, as well as ditching a child actor, which really is for the best.

Next would be to get George away from all romantic dialogue, and get some writers who can actually write it. This will help with episode 2. Then bump up the numbers because a couple million clones for a galaxy equals a lost war. Also integrate some of Darths & Droids ideas here, they have a decent plot-line that makes sense, and has better and more believable villains.

Finally make Vader's descent much slower, gradual instead of murdering children as his first act. Also don't make it so damn obvious. Get rid of some of the narm such as Ultimate Power and fix some of the dialogue and you have a decent film. These are only a few suggestions and Plinkett's reviews have a huge amount more, but I think that the prequels are not that far off from being good movies, but that the little things make all the difference.

Thank you for addressing these movies realistically instead of the generic and repetitive bitching everyone else does.
AQthough I awlyways saw Anakin's descent as starting when he slaughtered all the sand people, being the first time he completely surrendered to hatred and everything else after it being the consequences of that moment.
Now enough about Star Wars before this turns into Star Wars Whining Thread #75765746676756

Dienekes
2012-02-10, 07:15 PM
May I just add my 2 cents about the prequels? Sorry, but it will be brief.

1) Make the Trade Federation intimidating in their own right, it doesn't have to be physical I'm talking Tarkin-style intimidation. They were embarrassing as villains.

2) Drop any two of Grievous, Darth Maul, or Dooku. Vader was the only awesome intimidating villain of the prequels and we grew to respect and fear him. These three all got about a movie or less before they died like chumps. Hell Darth Maul doesn't even have a personality. Except for visuals they offered nothing.

The rest have mentioned everything else.

Batman and Robin: Fire everyone except Schwarzenegger. Oh I know what you're thinking "Why not Schwarzenegger too? He was horrible!" The one piece of acting I think Arny can actually do well is a cold, emotionless guy, which is what Freeze should be, but not what he was.

An Enemy Spy
2012-02-10, 07:25 PM
One more thing about Star Wars and then I'm done. Am I the only one who thinks Clone Troopers are way cooler than the Stormtroopers. Seriously, if the prequel version of the Imperial minions were around in the original, the good guys would have been slaughtered.

Tiki Snakes
2012-02-10, 07:25 PM
I'm not saying that I'd change everything about the prequels because it's popular to bag on them.
I'm saying I'd change everything because given the chance I genuinely would have done everything differently. Starting with the basic worldbuilding of the setting species and characters and up through the script, concept-arting and especially the way they were filmed and edited. When I look at the original films, I imagine a very different setting than is presented by the Prequels, simple as that.

As for Anakin/Vader specifically, yeah he'd start off much older just as Dumbledor Lives suggests, and be much more of an all-american action-hero than angsting teen. The fall to the dark side would be one of hot-blooded-hubris and overconfidence. I see him as the type who wouldn't bow his head to anyone, strong confident charming and well-meaning.

The emperor would eventually manage to grind him down and turn him to the dark side because of his heroic defiance and never-say die attitude. He'd break him psychologically, probably in a scene reminiscent of the Emperor's attempt at turning Luke (only hot-headed Anakin wouldn't be able to restrain his temper at the emperor's taunting until it was too late and the dark-side had taken hold).

Oh, and the clone wars would be a series of wars involving clones, that is, wars against clones or a faction/factions that heavily used clones.

Additionally, tech in the prequels era and before would NOT be weirdly more advanced than the current day no matter how much fun KOTOR was in it's own right. Speaking of KOTOR Era, that wouldn't feature such weirdly advanced/similar tech either and the EU would have no impact of baring on the films.
If I was to get the chance to extend the Topic to the EU itself, it would largely die in a fire probably just leaving the Thrawn books and a couple of other half tolerable books before being called finished and locked away.


Anyway, as for Janeway, I'm not saying just changing the actress would have fixed the character, because the writing on that show was terrible. But it's still a change I would insist on as a good start, because she simply didn't have the force of personality to pull off the role of a starship captain for me.

thegurullamen
2012-02-10, 07:48 PM
Kung Fu Panda 2: I would have uncut* the scene explaining that Shen's parents pitied him for being an albino and that the soothsayer was his step-parent when his own sent him away out of fear of his increasingly violent behavior. One scene and it elevates the movie so much by fleshing out characters' motivations and giving them a lot more depth.

*Not sure if it was a scene, but I know it appears somewhere in the extended materials and was based on an idea from the script that got cut.

Dumbledore lives
2012-02-10, 10:17 PM
All good ideas, but given your user name I thought a certain fantasy series was going to have a certain character survive throughout:smalltongue:.

Well in all honesty him dying needed to happen for purposes of the story, and showed how masterful a planner he was amongst other things, as well as adding some significant emotional weight and drive for Harry, and led to the funeral which is one of the best scenes in the series, and was not in the movies for reasons that allude me.

As for Harry Potter there are a few things I would have done differently, like Tonks and Lupin, who had no reason to die, and especially not off-screen, and especially not off-screen int he films, where they totally had the time to show it if they wanted. I understand her reasons for it, but it still seems like bull to me, and means that every adult character I really liked had been killed. Also, ditch the epilogue.

Other things I would like to change, the ending of the recent I Am Legend film, just restore the deleted ending and get rid of the theatrical and the film becomes so much better, so much so that I don't actually watch the theatrical anymore, but go on Youtube at the appropriate point to see the real ending.

warty goblin
2012-02-10, 10:32 PM
As for Harry Potter there are a few things I would have done differently, like Tonks and Lupin, who had no reason to die, and especially not off-screen, and especially not off-screen int he films, where they totally had the time to show it if they wanted. I understand her reasons for it, but it still seems like bull to me, and means that every adult character I really liked had been killed. Also, ditch the epilogue.


I rather liked that a lot of the deaths were offscreen. It kept the final battle from being a sequence of:
1) Harry enters room
2) person dies
3) Harry leaves room
4) If (deathcount < Requisite Grimness Threshold) return to step 1.
else (run JesusMode.res)

darthbobcat
2012-02-10, 10:52 PM
Say youíre suddenly endowed with ability to rewrite a comic, novel, film, TV series, etc. to be more to your liking. Maybe itís a series with great premise, but it was poorly executed, the main character dragged it down, the series finale was hugely disappointing, or such. Maybe itís a little thing, some character trait or backstory to one of the characters you think would add more layers to the piece. Point is youíre given complete control of the piece fiction, what do you do differently?
Some of mine

Superman: I never liked how Krypton blew up just a few years ago. Iíve always thought it would interesting if Kryptonians were one of the earliest intelligent life in the Galaxy, and their world was destroyed millions upon millions of years ago, but because of relativistic speeds and suspended animation Superman arrives on modern day earth.

Star Trek Voyager: This might be a long one.

The setting: make the Borg the dominant force throughout the Delta quadrant, theyíre everywhere. But Borg being Borg they ignore Voyager as being inconsequential. The Borg have already taken out the homeworlds of every major race in the quadrant, and hold the plants/asteroids/Oort clouds with the most resources. All thatís left are the colonies of the conquered races desperately trying to find enough resources to survive, as the Borg strip mine everything. The Borg arenít as ďassimilation happyĒ because theyíve already won, itís just a manor of time before they bother adding all the individuals left into the collective, why rush? Some even willingly join the Borg, after coming around to this fatalistic outlook.

Characters

Chakotay: Much older and far more experienced captain, was considered one of the great captains of the Federation before he went turn coat. Takes on a much more mentor role for a much younger and inexperienced Janeway, but she canít totally rely on him as he may an excuse to lead an insurrection with the Maqui crew.

There is more, but I donít want my ideas to be the focus of the thread (although some criticism is always welcome). I want to know your guys ideas.

If I could only make one change to the show, (it needs more than one, butt I think this would fix a lot), I'd have Janeway decide to throw out the Prime Directive. That simple change would have opened up all sorts of opportunities for political intrigues and actual moral dilemmas, rather than having a one size fits all answer to any question (except for when it wasn't).

Telonius
2012-02-10, 10:57 PM
George Lucas would be forced at lightsaber-point to restore the original Han and Greedo scene. Give Biggs a little bit of screen time early on. Rewrite 90% of the dialogue to the prequels. An electric shock would be administered any time the word "midichlorians" came up. Genndy Tartakovsky would do the storyboarding. (Seriously, that "demon hand" thing in the cartoon was the only possible way that the ending of Episode 3 made any kind of sense whatsoever).

Speaking of Tartakovsky, Samurai Jack would come to an acceptable conclusion.

The Matrix 2 and 3 would be rewritten. I see where they were trying to take it, but it just didn't work. At all.

DomaDoma
2012-02-10, 11:12 PM
Harry Potter: Nothing major. Just weave in the Hallows and the wand-conquest stuff prior to the seventh book, and write the epilogue from the point of view of some random Muggle who's had some kind of experience with Death Eaters and is now getting some kind of sense that the horror is over. Let's make this Muggle a neighbor of Andromeda's, so we can wrap it up with a nifty parallel between Teddy and Harry.

Oh, and pick an underage-magic rule and stick with it. I'd choose the Trace, and give Morfin a son for Tom to screw with.

Traab
2012-02-10, 11:34 PM
In Harry potter I would have changed things so the big twist was that dumbledoore had been actively plotting for harry to die from year 1. He kept forcing confrontations between voldemort and harry because until harry died and the prophecy was definitely finished, dumbledoore and his people couldnt finish the job. He made the choice from early on to set harry up to fail as fast as possible because he felt it would take too long to train up a badass mofo light warrior to actually beat voldemort. It would have wasted too much time and too many lives. Much better for harry to die at 11 at voldemorts hands, than to eventually win at 27 when he has enough skills and experience to pull off a win.

It would have added an interesting element to the story. The gradual realization that his twinkly grandfather act was just that. An act. Book after book, more clues are discovered that lead harry and his friends to the inescapable conclusion, dumbledoore wants harry dead just as much as voldemort does. Just for different reasons. The last book would have taken the entire focus of the story in another direction. Dumbledoore is still alive, and is now hunting down harry with some of his fanatical followers, (its not everyone in the order, just his own inner circle) Their plan is to catch, cripple, then drop off harry right at voldemorts doorstep so he can be killed finally. And the golden trio still has to find voldemorts horocruxes. So they are dodging agents from both sides of the fence, dumbledoore has a head start so he can figure out where they will go next to setup traps, the ministry is falling fast to the death eaters. (It isnt fully taken over since dumbles is still alive, but it might as well be with all the imperiused people and death eaters in various areas) So even they are after harry. All he can count on is his DA group and ron and hermione.

The story ends with voldy dying, dumbledoore being exposed for the amoral monster he is, and the epilogue shows harry as an adult proposing more reforms to help force the wizarding world into the 21st century.

As for the star wars prequels. Id say movie 1 starts at a similar point that movie 2 did. Skip the child part entirely. I would basically have to rewrite the entire series from scratch, but the general gist is to establish anakin as a young but skilled padawan who is falling for the senator from naboo. We use this movie to basically setup everything. We see the seperatists getting mobilized, we discover the secret clone army being built, the romance slowly grows between anakin and padme, who are a bit closer in age imo, because while 5 years or whatever isnt that big a deal at say, 30, it is a big deal when one person is in their 20s and the other is a teenager. Ignore the whole queen issue entirely, it didnt happen. I can buy a 22 year old new senator (to bring the age range closer). I cant buy a 14 year old elected QUEEN. The movie ends on a similar note to episode 2, just with different events. Basically, its the start of the clone wars.

Episode 2 is now the actual clone wars themselves. Anakin ends up getting a field promotion to jedi knight due to various laser filled adventures where he saves the day and shows his ability. The middle of a war, with a secret wife at home, and all the pressure of command is the perfect setting to showcase anakins slow slide into the dark side. We can see his growing dissatisfaction with how the jedi masters run things, him dealing with the pain of loss as people close to him get killed in the fighting, and slowly clues are starting to come together about who is behind all this. More information on the sith is coming to light. Movie 2 ends with anakin returning to coruscant after some huge emotionally and mentally draining battle/mission and he learns padme is pregnant.

Episode 3 is when things start falling apart for anakin. This is when his mother dies in his arms, this is when he starts getting these false visions of padme dying. He cant tell this to anyone because he cant let them learn he is married. The council can sense his turmoil, his fear, all these negative emotions and are tragically acting exactly the way they shouldnt. They dont learn WHY he is like this, they think its a combination of ptsd type stuff and they bench him. (Its a part of his issues, but far from the largest)

This infuriates him because he knows he is needed on the battle lines. he is a war hero for a reason and these jedi masters are keeping him from helping. So he is stewing in all this, the pressure of knowing people are dying that he could be saving, the fgear of losing his wife, the tantalizing tidbits of information he has uncovered that suggest there are sith techniques that could save padme. All of this leads him to palpatine. At the same time, obi wan is also putting things together, and he discovers that palpatine is the sith lord. He gets a bunch of his fellow jedi to saddle up and they run off to arrest or kill him.

They storm into his office just as palpatine is showing anakin how padme can be saved. Obi wan and the jedi see anakin apparently in cahoots with palpatine and they attack them both. Anakin is forced to either defend himself or die, and he kills a few of the jedi, and obi wan is forced to retreat. Now the die is cast, anakin has no choice but to join palpatine as the jedi will want him dead now. Palpatine uses his anger and fear to twist anakin and convince him to lead troops to wipe out the jedi. They attack the temple. Anakin does NOT kill the younglings. He isnt even aware that the troopers killed them.

There is another showdown later where obi wan has told padme what happened, (at least what he thinks has happened) and blames anakin for the deaths of the younglings. When padme rejects anakin, calling him a monster, its the last shove he needs and his rage bursts out. He force chokes padme, and as far as he knows, kills her. He and obi wan have their big battle. Anakin loses and ends up in the vadar suit. Palpatine tells him that yes, he killed his wife, and their child died as well. The last spark in vadar dies out with this information, in his mind its the jedi who are to blame. They caused him to be their enemy. They are the ones who turned padme against him. If it wasnt for them he would have learned how to save her and the baby! So now anakin is dead and gone. At least until the return of the jedi.

Lord Seth
2012-02-11, 12:27 AM
Voyager?
Re-cast Janeway. Then everyone else, except the doctor. And possibly Seven of Nine. All of the Writers get fired too, and directors, and etc etc. Uh, what was wrong with Kate Mulgrew? I thought she did great as Janeway. Or for that matter, why does the entire rest of the cast need replacing?

I found Voyager pretty mediocre, but I don't think it was the fault of the actors.

bloodtide
2012-02-11, 12:31 AM
Star Trek Voyager: This might be a long one. I'd so love to rewrite this show.

The setting: Trapped on the other side of the galaxy a mixed crew of Starfleet and Maque must work together to survive in an unknown and mostly hostile part of the galaxy with no support or back up. There would be no reset button. Every scratch that the Voyager takes would be permanently etched onto the model/CGI effect. So if the ship takes a hit on the port side you'd see that scar week after week. I would have an exact and detailed count of the crew and equipment on the ship(plus shuttlecrafts). I could spend, oh say an hour, to go over every single script and approve equipment used. And once I say on the show ''we only have 11 pulse phaser rifles'', and an episode has two of them destroyed, I will change the number from '11' to '9' on the show guide.

In stead of 'normal Star Treky' type shows where each week they go to a random planet to encounter a random social problem to be a hollywood mirror to us all (awwww) and have action and adventure, the show will be a much more dark and gritty show about just staying alive. Cut off from all support, with very limited supplies, how can the ship survive? Week after week you'd get lots of hard choices with no easy answers. The crew would always try to be 'Starfleets finest', but they would be under huge amounts of stress. How far can you up hold the Starfleet values with no support or back-up? How far can you bend the rules to keep your ship and crew safe? How far will you cross the line?

The show would have long reaching plots and story lines lasting several episodes, if not seasons. The arc of just 'replacing the dlyithium crystals' would take up like six episodes. And you'd have half a dozen storyline, plots and arcs all interacting.
Characters-A lot more friction among the crew. In stead of the 'group hug lets all sing Coum By Ya', the Starfleet and Maque would not get along. They can function well enough vs outside threats, but otherwise they are close to being at each others throats. You'd see Maque not fitting into the Starfleet lifestlye, and Starfleet types being temped by the dark side of the Maque. I would not take it so far as a munity(maybe), but more just not seeing eye to eye.

Chakotay: Make him much more evil and bitter. Add in something like Starfleet moved away and the Cardassians bombed my tribe to death. Have him do much more 'second guessing' the captain. Where he does not violate orders, he just twists and turns and bends them. Create all sorts of crew drama: Tuvok can accept some of the 'bad' things if they are logical and not tell the captain, Paris half willing goes along with 'bad' stuff, but feels that Starfeelt loyalty to the captain, Kim is too good for his own good, Neelix often gets caught in the middle doing 'bad' things that he does not know/understand are against the rules, Tores walks the live between being loyal to Chakotay and the captain.

Lord Raziere
2012-02-11, 01:10 AM
*shifty eyes*

*walks in*

Naruto.

I would've taken out Team 7 entirely, made Shikamaru, Kiba and Hinata the protagonists, made Kakashi a mysterious guy watching the Jinchuuriki, whose identity is mysterious, then launched them all into a world of mystery and intrigue, full of secrets both new and old while taking down enemies using teamwork while having to struggle with issues of trust, loyalty and leadership in a world of cold war politics and secret cutthroat ninja warfare. eventually things would come to ahead in a Gundam-esque fashion with all the Shinobi nations fighting each other in the fourth shinobi war while Madara finally shows his true plan to conquer it while everyone is fighting everyone else, and its up to the the three protagonists to stop him by somehow ending the fighting so that they can unite before he puts his plan into motion.

Things would then end and while the nations wouldn't entirely be at peace, they would try to work towards a better tomorrow together.

so basically, Naruto meets Gundam. or something.

Hida Reju
2012-02-11, 05:27 AM
God every time I think of the prequel movies my heart dies a bit.

1. Pod Racing needed to be out he is a kid a young kid no need for that. Put Obi Wan in to do the race that way you give young Anakin someone to look up too. Makes since with the whole young brash Jedi too sure of his powers thing that they tried and failed to give Anakin later.

2. Darth Maul should either not have died in the first movie or should have been pushing Obi Wan so close to death that Qi Qon was forced to do the Samurai trade swords through heart thing to stop him.

3. Second movie needed a less emo Anakin and more of a rush to a fight always be first kinda person. Make him aggressive just like Obi Wan was in the first movie since he had him as a role model. That way you can have Obi Wan constantly making excuses for his over reacting by saying he will grow out of it in time just like I did.

4. The slide to the dark side should have been less a quick slide and much more subtle. Have Anakin fighting almost non stop until exhausted against a horde of troops while getting calls about saving people. Then he gets a chance to end all the fighting with one murder. It seems small it seems like the right thing to do but its the door that opens. He starts looking more and more towards the end justifying the means going for the route that saves more people with just a bit more sacrifice each time.

5. The love story could have been even more tragic have them deeply love and be devoted to each other only to slowly watch him sacrifice even her to save lives. Hell have her die because she was working with the early part of the rebellion and have random blaster fire in the raid injure her. He thinks she is gone because of the Rebellion further pushing him away not realizing that Obi Wan wisked her away to save the unborn children before they died.

6. Then at the end the final straw is when the Emperor pushes for his Death Star as the ultimate peace in the galaxy and Anakin looks around and is the only one that can see the lives it would save. Have him turn against the Jedi because he thought it was the right thing to end the war. Then slowly he gets worse as he has to hunt down those he thought his friends and family.

God there were so many ways this could have been a thousand times better and not crapped on the series.

Aotrs Commander
2012-02-11, 07:16 AM
Lessee now...

Star Wars.

Prequels:

Make Anakin a bit more like the version in the Clone Wars from the get-go, as that had the time and space to make him more of a likable character, and still have his moments of darkness. Sharpen up the romance and dialogue.

More starship battles, and longer. Add in a few aging Dreadnoughts, Victory Stardestroyers, one or two versions of Headhunters etc.

Reduce the pod-racing stuff; the running time can be used for cooler stuff, like the above later on.

Less Jarjar.

More Palpatine.

Add in Asokha to Revenge of the Sith, and have an enormously emotionally powerful fight scene where she and Anakin fight (she's protecting the younglings), and he kills her. (I love Asokha, but that would be so tragic and powerful a scene if done right, it needs to be done.) It would also add a new dynamic to the eventualy Obi-Wan/Anakin fight.

Original trilogy:

Space the timeline of events between the three movies out a bit more. The Empire barely lasted twenty years, all told, and I think it deserved a bit more time to really get stuck in and cause all the damage. A year or two should be plenty (or at least a bigger gap between ANH and ESB).

More starship battles, and longer, with the full (time-line appropriate) set of fighters and vehicles.

Both:
Build on the hinted background events that were in the Thrawn trilogy (e.g., Vader losing his hand at the loss of the Death Star - it could be either his real one or the artifical, but it gets to be in a scene in ESB, anyway), what few there are.

Final, and most awesome and contaversial option: At the cost of another hour/hour-and-a-half running time (hey, they did it with LotR...)

Focus more on the villains as characters. Angered at Vader's failure to stop the Death Star being destroyed, and at his near-failure to stop Admiral Zaarin's attempted coup, Palpatine sends him off to fight Zaarin (that becomes the B-plot to both ESB and RotJ), and appoints Grand Admiral Thrawn (introduced in ESB) as commander at Endor. The final fight is thus split three ways - the rebels, on the ground, trying to destroy the Death Star's shields - with not Ewok help, against properly readied ground troops - but with Luke on hand; Vader and the advanced Imperial forces verses Zaarin on the rim (instead of the lightsabre duel on the Death Star); and the battle over Endor. The rebels managed to take the Death Star's Shield out; and, without the advanced TIEs to deal the killing blow, the Death Star is still destroyed. However, with Thrawn in charge, the rebel fleet is trapped and doomed. Ackbar sends Lando to rescue the group and flee, citing that only a few ships will be able to escape. (Rogue Squadron - well Red at the time - and a few others are their escort out.)

So, the Emporer is dead, but the rebellions is dealt a crippling defeat as well, paving the way for either Vader's or Thrawn's ascention to Emporer... Which would be a story for another time. (Spoiler: Thrawn wins eventually, because he's awesome.)

(Potential surprise plot-twist - Asokha Tano was not quite killed, but survived and healed eventually, and, having now given in to her anger, has fallen to the Dark side and become the Hand of Thrawn...)



Harry Potter:
Bit more internal consistency in the world building (armed with the foreknowledge, so things can be mentioned a bit earlier). Less gratuitious character deaths at the end (one big one would have had the required emotional impact, said impact is not linearly multiplied by each dead body.) Voldemort dies a bit more dramatically than just Expelliarmis. Actually seeing a B-plot with Ginny/Luna/Nevelle ect in the final year. (Ginny was supposed to be having her own adventures, so she was more equal to Harry (which is fair enough), but it would have been better not to soley focus on Harry as the sole perspective.)



Pokemon:
For frag's sake, let Ash age a little bit, even if it's only a year and a bit a region. Better consistency with prior events. More meeting of old characters (especially companions).



Naruto:
Less Sasuke. Either kill him off early or never let him be taken in the first place, and gradually become a sardonic sort of Neji-ish character (not necessarily a nice guy, but with a sense of perspective and humour). In the latter case, as he becomes not an asshat, so it's not a problem.

More background for Tenten and Shino especially, and more screentime for everyone more generally. Cutting out the artsy bits in Shippuden and the flashbacks in general would give you more than enough play; Naruto is very wasteful with it's running time. A tighter focus would give them more time to do anything else. Filler is okay, provided what it mostly gives you is the chance to see the different characters interact more.

Don't kill off Orochimaru so comparitively early (which you won't do with Sasuke either bieng dead or not a complete...prat), and leave most of the bad guys as bad guys and stop trying to make them all misunderstood with the possible sole exception of Roachy and the filler villains.

More emphasis on group fights, not one-on-one. Naruto doing a cool thing is one thing, Naruto AND Sakura AND Kakashi (or Shikamaru and Ino and Chouji etc etc) all doing a combined group awesome jutsu attack would be even more cool. It's a team show, supposedly, after all. Also, optimisation of tactics and jutsus used. I should not be screaming "just wallop him with Shadow Clone/Rasengan, Naruto!" (Admittedly, this was often more a case in some of the filler fights than the main ones, but it's still no excuse.)

Not ignoring Hinata's confession (whichever way you went with it) is important.

More Kakashi. Dude is seriously cool.

The orange STAYS.

MLai
2012-02-11, 09:17 AM
Matrix trilogy:
If the only thing that is changed is the end segment, that by itself would make the entire trilogy a lot better.

1. Smith and Neo final fight, with Neo losing intentionally as before.
2. Neo lets Smith absorb him, and then takes over Smith as before.
3. Neo now has Smith's virus power!
4. Neo virus-assimilates the Deus Ex Machina AI, and becomes the Deus Ex Machina AI. This is consistent with his new Smith power.
5. As the new central AI, Neo calls off the attack and lets Zion live. True peace.

How is this change better:

1. Neo becoming the AI is foreshadowed in 2, when the old man talks to him about how humans need machines to live. Is also foreshadowed in 3, when Neo sees the beauty of the machine city as lights/souls.
2. Isn't it the entire purpose of him tricking Smith?
3. If Neo dies, it is up to the machines having "honour" to back off from Zion? This completely defies logic. Machines have no concept of honour. What the old dude AI said at the end of the movie, was completely stupid. The movie was treating viewers as morons. There was no lasting peace. There was, however, a mediocre and short-lived MMO.
4. The Jesus metaphor? B**ch, please. The true sacrifice consistent with the entire theme of the trilogy, is Neo giving up his humanity, becoming his enemy, in order to save the human race and achieve victory through peace and understanding, rather than mutual annihilation.



When padme rejects anakin, calling him a monster, its the last shove he needs and his rage bursts out. He force chokes padme, and as far as he knows, kills her. He and obi wan have their big battle.
I'd change this slightly. She calls him a monster, but in a way that shows she's still conflicted. He loses it and force chokes her, but only briefly before he stops himself and drops her. He was starting to apologize when Obi-wan sees most of this and thought Anakin's about to murder Padme. Obi-wan to the rescue! During the brief confused struggle, Padme tries to push Obi-wan away from her husband. Obi-wan accidentally skewers her (due to being pushed by Anakin).

Also it is important that Anakin does not think of the Force as the GOOD FORCE of the Jedi, and the EEEVIL DARK SIDE of the Sith. He should arrive at the correct conclusion that the Force as practiced by the Republic Jedi Council is misdirected and stagnant. "The balance" is not achieved by throwing off all emotion (including human compassion and common morality, which the Jedi Council obviously lacks), and the Council is as far astray as any Sith Lord of yore.

Lucas' Anakin sort of verbalizes this, but very poorly and it sounded more like whining than an actual informed decision.

And for god's sake let's stop using the word "younglings."

Obrysii
2012-02-11, 09:36 AM
Lessee now...

Star Wars.

Prequels:

Make Anakin a bit more like the version in the Clone Wars from the get-go, as that had the time and space to make him more of a likable character, and still have his moments of darkness. Sharpen up the romance and dialogue.

I agree. I'd rather he be about Luke's age in Empire Strikes Back when he begins his training. He's just got too much potential to pass up. That he falls could be the reason behind Yoda's disinterest in training Luke later on.


More starship battles, and longer. Add in a few aging Dreadnoughts, Victory Stardestroyers, one or two versions of Headhunters etc.

I agree! One of my biggest issues with the prequels is how fast the tech advances. Based on what we've seen from KOTOR, it seems about ~4,000 years ago the galaxy hit the technological singularity - major advances just aren't going to happen. Small, gradual advances might, however. Thus the improvement from Victory to Imperial-class Star Destroyers.

Also explains why in the original trilogy and expanded universe they're still using X-Wing variants 50-some years after introduction.


Original trilogy:

Space the timeline of events between the three movies out a bit more. The Empire barely lasted twenty years, all told, and I think it deserved a bit more time to really get stuck in and cause all the damage. A year or two should be plenty (or at least a bigger gap between ANH and ESB).

I agree here, too. I believe the Clone Wars should have begun before Anakin is discovered - his training might have been one of desperation or perhaps (as others have suggested) he's the All-Republican-Hero before he is selected for Jedi training.

The Clone Wars should have devastated the galaxy for, say, a century. Enough time that most people would be happy for any end - even if it meant an Empire to instill peace.

The Clone Wars would come to an end just as Anakin falls to the Dark Side, forty years or fifty years before A New Hope. Obi-wan is captured, perhaps turned into a mockery of a court jester, and that's how he learns that one of Anakin's court companions is pregnant, senses that it is Anakin's child. Sensing this, he manages to escape, taking her with. This is about 20 years before A New Hope. She gives birth on a starship, and he takes the boy while she takes the girl. She dies about two years later on Alderaan.

The reason for such a long time instead of a mere 20 years is it has to be at least two generations of humans - enough that most have forgotten that the Jedi ever existed.

She dies when Leia is

Traab
2012-02-11, 09:48 AM
I'd change this slightly. She calls him a monster, but in a way that shows she's still conflicted. He loses it and force chokes her, but only briefly before he stops himself and drops her. He was starting to apologize when Obi-wan sees most of this and thought Anakin's about to murder Padme. Obi-wan to the rescue! During the brief confused struggle, Padme tries to push Obi-wan away from her husband. Obi-wan accidentally skewers her (due to being pushed by Anakin).

The reason why im against this is because vadar to me, didnt have anything to redeem him, other than his children, which he didnt even know about till luke started blowing up death stars. By having padme flat out reject him, thinking he was a child murdering monster, it breaks the last bond he has to the light side when he "kills" her and their child. He has nothing left to save him from the dark side, so he gives himself to it fully. By having it be an accidental death, or some ambiguity as to how she feels about him, it leaves an unnecessary extra avenue for redemption. A single thought to keep him warm at night. "I think she still loved me" Instead of, "Everyone turned against me, my fellow jedi, my brother in all but blood, even my WIFE! RRRRAAAAGH! VADAR SMASH!"

Socratov
2012-02-11, 10:00 AM
George Lucas would be forced at lightsaber-point to restore the original Han and Greedo scene. Give Biggs a little bit of screen time early on. Rewrite 90% of the dialogue to the prequels. An electric shock would be administered any time the word "midichlorians" came up. Genndy Tartakovsky would do the storyboarding. (Seriously, that "demon hand" thing in the cartoon was the only possible way that the ending of Episode 3 made any kind of sense whatsoever).

Speaking of Tartakovsky, Samurai Jack would come to an acceptable conclusion.

The Matrix 2 and 3 would be rewritten. I see where they were trying to take it, but it just didn't work. At all.

yes about George Lucas, with the addition of: film that, add on to the DVD as extras.

Matrix 2 was fine IMO, I mean, they needed to show what Neo was capable of doing. Part 3 is be rewritten completely, that movie was all about giving closure without the great storytelling from part 1 or any of the great action choreography from part 2.

I'd like to add Indiana Jones - Chrystal Skull

the writing was shady at best and to be honest it is not done to tackle such a great hero in such a wimpy way, Indy deserves a much better and heroic role... did like the Nazi woman part though...

Serpentine
2012-02-11, 10:13 AM
The movie adaptation of Ella Enchanted: I would rewrite the whole entire thing, because there is literally no way I, a complete amateur, could possibly do any worse.

hamishspence
2012-02-11, 10:20 AM
Based on a "the prequels need to fit the original trilogy, and novelizations, better" view, I would change some things.

Padme needs to survive longer to make Leia's memories of her "Very beautiful. Gentle and kind, but sad" as well as the novels reference to Padme (not named) hiding her in a tree, at all convincing.

"When I first met him, your father was already a great pilot". Podracer is IMO not enough of a "pilot" to be convincing- it's more like a driver.

Etc. Maybe Liam Neeson should have been "young Obi Wan" instead of some Qui-Gon guy who interferes with "There you shall learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me" and "Was I any different when you taught me?". Yoda just teaching him as an small child really isn't enough.

I'd drop quite a lot of prequel conceits- like the Jedi only accepting infants.

Dienekes
2012-02-11, 10:30 AM
Add in Asokha to Revenge of the Sith, and have an enormously emotionally powerful fight scene where she and Anakin fight (she's protecting the younglings), and he kills her. (I love Asokha, but that would be so tragic and powerful a scene if done right, it needs to be done.) It would also add a new dynamic to the eventualy Obi-Wan/Anakin fight.

I must disagree here. Partially because I never watched the Clone Wars show, but mostly because I think adding the character of a padawan when she'll only be in for half a movie just to be killed is rather limiting of her character's options. It would be much more satisfying if Ani murders a more well established character that the audience has had an entire movie or two to grow to like.


Focus more on the villains as characters. Angered at Vader's failure to stop the Death Star being destroyed, and at his near-failure to stop Admiral Zaarin's attempted coup, Palpatine sends him off to fight Zaarin (that becomes the B-plot to both ESB and RotJ), and appoints Grand Admiral Thrawn (introduced in ESB) as commander at Endor. The final fight is thus split three ways - the rebels, on the ground, trying to destroy the Death Star's shields - with not Ewok help, against properly readied ground troops - but with Luke on hand; Vader and the advanced Imperial forces verses Zaarin on the rim (instead of the lightsabre duel on the Death Star); and the battle over Endor. The rebels managed to take the Death Star's Shield out; and, without the advanced TIEs to deal the killing blow, the Death Star is still destroyed. However, with Thrawn in charge, the rebel fleet is trapped and doomed. Ackbar sends Lando to rescue the group and flee, citing that only a few ships will be able to escape. (Rogue Squadron - well Red at the time - and a few others are their escort out.)

So, the Emporer is dead, but the rebellions is dealt a crippling defeat as well, paving the way for either Vader's or Thrawn's ascention to Emporer... Which would be a story for another time. (Spoiler: Thrawn wins eventually, because he's awesome.)

Why? Seems like a rather pointless b plot really. Now a reference to Thrawn thrown in? Sure. Maybe a mention that through the Force the Emperor is manipulating the events of the battle? Cool, but remember to pace it so that things don't start going wrong for the Imps until after he dies. Getting rid of Ewoks? Awesome. But creating a whole new set up when the trilogy does a pretty good job of setting up a good close for both the Emperor and Vader seems odd. It also seems to completely negate Luke Skywalkers arc in confronting the embodiment of the Empire, the dark side, and his father.


(Potential surprise plot-twist - Asokha Tano was not quite killed, but survived and healed eventually, and, having now given in to her anger, has fallen to the Dark side and become the Hand of Thrawn...)

And this makes me think you just like Thrawn and Asokha a bit too much. Also that you should write for Soap Operas.

warty goblin
2012-02-11, 10:59 AM
And this makes me think you just like Thrawn and Asokha a bit too much. Also that you should write for Soap Operas.

You mean that Star Wars isn't one already?

Dienekes
2012-02-11, 11:32 AM
You mean that Star Wars isn't one already?

... Ok, point.

Dr.Epic
2012-02-11, 12:49 PM
Superman: I never liked how Krypton blew up just a few years ago. Iíve always thought it would interesting if Kryptonians were one of the earliest intelligent life in the Galaxy, and their world was destroyed millions upon millions of years ago, but because of relativistic speeds and suspended animation Superman arrives on modern day earth.

Does it really matter? The result is still the same: a blown up planet.

Traab
2012-02-11, 03:39 PM
Does it really matter? The result is still the same: a blown up planet.

Meh, it would have made more sense from a physics standpoint. There is no way the debris from an exploded planet would be able to travel millions of light years in order to litter the earth during the life span of superman. Maybe a case could be made for a few fragments getting dragged along for the ride with his ship, but certainly not enough to cover its sheer volume on earth. I mean, its not a huge difference, but trying to fill in plot holes, even ones that are relatively unimportant, is still a good thing as it helps people accept what they are reading.

Aotrs Commander
2012-02-11, 04:17 PM
I must disagree here. Partially because I never watched the Clone Wars show, but mostly because I think adding the character of a padawan when she'll only be in for half a movie just to be killed is rather limiting of her character's options. It would be much more satisfying if Ani murders a more well established character that the audience has had an entire movie or two to grow to like.

You're assuming I would be interested in the movie on it's own merits, rather than part of the overall plot of Clone Wars. Which I'm not. If people who haven't watched the series don't get as much impact... *shrug*

But basically, though, I'd do that if I was in charge, because I think that's what ought to happen in the Clone Wars in the end, but I don't think it ever will, sadly. Which is a shame because I think, after seeing the close bond between Ani and Asokha - and Obi-Wan - through the series, it would be a really darkly tragic and powerful moment. And, I should say, that under normal circumstances, I am typically very much against dark/tragic/grim and character death unless there is a VERY good reason. Which I think that would be.


Why? Seems like a rather pointless b plot really. Now a reference to Thrawn thrown in? Sure. Maybe a mention that through the Force the Emperor is manipulating the events of the battle? Cool, but remember to pace it so that things don't start going wrong for the Imps until after he dies. Getting rid of Ewoks? Awesome. But creating a whole new set up when the trilogy does a pretty good job of setting up a good close for both the Emperor and Vader seems odd. It also seems to completely negate Luke Skywalkers arc in confronting the embodiment of the Empire, the dark side, and his father.

Because I am a rabid Imperial Loyalist, and my preferred option of Admiral Zaarin dying before his coup got off the ground, allowing both Vader AND Thrawn AND all the Empire's advanced fighter squadrons being at Endor, leading the to complete massecre of the rebel fleet (rendering whatever happened at Endor pointless, because the rebel fighters, Millenium Falcon included, would have been completely obliterated by the additional swarms of TIE Avengers, TIE Defenders, Assault Gunboats and Missile Boats, and possibly even TIE Experimentals, granting the Imperials the advantage in numbers, tactics and equipment quality) and the ensuing rightful total Imperial victory, securing their permanent domination of the galaxy, would go down even less well.

(Also, as Vader is there, those events would play out like before; i.e. Vader and the Emperor would neatly kill each other off through Luke, leading the way for Thrawn to become Emperor...)

That, as they say, was the compromise version that let some of the rebels not all die.


It also seems to completely negate Luke Skywalkers arc in confronting the embodiment of the Empire, the dark side, and his father.

Yes. So?

I found that part - aside from the Emperor's awesome ham - to be by far the least interesting part of the final confronation.


And this makes me think you just like Thrawn and Asokha a bit too much. Also that you should write for Soap Operas.

The Ashoka twist suggestion was merely because I thought an adult, evil Asokha would be kinda awesome. In practise, though, it would seriously cheapen the effect of having her killed off, so I very probably wouldn't do it in reality. It is kind of cheesy, and as it's the sort of thing I frown at in the Prequel Era anyway... (Seriously, how many Jedi were not killed in Order 66? Luke ,the last Jedi my boney arse!)

Also Thrawn is a better villain than any of the others in Star Wars, hands down (and having just re-read the Thrawn trilogy, he also is far from without flaws...) Heck, he's a better villain than in, well, pretty much anything. B5's Bester comes close; from what I hear, Gargolyes Xanatos is not far off, but Thrawn is a much more interesting character than either Luke or Vader. The Emporer is nearly as cool but in a different, more over-the-top, moustache-twiddlingly awesome way.

Bastian Weaver
2012-02-11, 08:41 PM
X-Men:

Chuck Austen never started working on the X-Men. As a result, Skin is still alive. So is Jeannie. No Scott/Emma romance. Polaris is not Magneto's daughter. Nightcrawler's father was a normal human. Etc. Etc.
Kitty Pryde never returns from her space trip inside the giant bullet.
Jubilee and Wolverine have a romantic relationship.
No vampires, no depowering, definitely no third Summers brother.

Spectacular Spiderman animated series:


There's a third season.


Exo-Squad:
The show doesn't end with a cliffhanger, it either continues or finishes without the alien invasion.

MLai
2012-02-11, 09:51 PM
The reason why im against this is because vadar to me, didnt have anything to redeem him, other than his children, which he didnt even know about till luke started blowing up death stars. By having padme flat out reject him, thinking he was a child murdering monster, it breaks the last bond he has to the light side when he "kills" her and their child. He has nothing left to save him from the dark side, so he gives himself to it fully. By having it be an accidental death, or some ambiguity as to how she feels about him, it leaves an unnecessary extra avenue for redemption. A single thought to keep him warm at night. "I think she still loved me" Instead of, "Everyone turned against me, my fellow jedi, my brother in all but blood, even my WIFE! RRRRAAAAGH! VADAR SMASH!"
I in turn disagree that Vader should be thematically beyond redemption. If that's the true aim of his character, then he didn't even need to be the protag's father. What is the point of making him the father, if that doesn't engender some sort of internal conflict within the protag? If he is a COMPLETE MONSTER (TV Tropes no I will not link it), then being the father is irrelevant.

The point of Vader is that starting from ESB to RofJ, we see him as more and more human. Therefore I don't see his turn as "descent into evil." He was trying to do the greater good, and also it's true that the Jedi Council was astray and do not represent the complete Force, and also it's true that the Republic gov't was in decline. Now he just needs a reason to all-out hate the Jedi. Obi-wan influencing then killing his wife would do that.

Lucas' prequels don't communicate it well at all, since he was more interested in selling toys... but the Jedi Council and the Republic Senate are both nothing to mourn over. Kind of like today's Congress.


You're assuming I would be interested in the movie on it's own merits, rather than part of the overall plot of Clone Wars. Which I'm not. If people who haven't watched the series don't get as much impact... *shrug*
This is a self-admission that your proposed changes will not make the movies better.

bloodtide
2012-02-11, 10:54 PM
X-Men:

Chuck Austen never started working on the X-Men. As a result, Skin is still alive. So is Jeannie. No Scott/Emma romance. Polaris is not Magneto's daughter. Nightcrawler's father was a normal human. Etc. Etc.
Kitty Pryde never returns from her space trip inside the giant bullet.
Jubilee and Wolverine have a romantic relationship.
No vampires, no depowering, definitely no third Summers brother.


I had to stop reading X-Men years ago because of all that stuff. But you can't really 'fix' a comic book. As one of the things that drives long time fans like me crazy is the retcon stuff. Like, oh you know character X that you have seen for 150 issues...oh, well he was, surprise, a robot! Yup, his evil robot double from the future replaced him! And that is fine, except for the 1,344 mistakes it makes. So in issue 322 The Drano stole the robots mutant power? And issue he just pretended the gas knocked him out or does the robot breathe? And so on.

Traab
2012-02-11, 11:06 PM
I in turn disagree that Vader should be thematically beyond redemption. If that's the true aim of his character, then he didn't even need to be the protag's father. What is the point of making him the father, if that doesn't engender some sort of internal conflict within the protag? If he is a COMPLETE MONSTER (TV Tropes no I will not link it), then being the father is irrelevant.

The point of Vader is that starting from ESB to RofJ, we see him as more and more human. Therefore I don't see his turn as "descent into evil." He was trying to do the greater good, and also it's true that the Jedi Council was astray and do not represent the complete Force, and also it's true that the Republic gov't was in decline. Now he just needs a reason to all-out hate the Jedi. Obi-wan influencing then killing his wife would do that.

Lucas' prequels don't communicate it well at all, since he was more interested in selling toys... but the Jedi Council and the Republic Senate are both nothing to mourn over. Kind of like today's Congress.


This is a self-admission that your proposed changes will not make the movies better.

But he WAS beyond redemption up until he met his son. There was no good left in him and no way for the light side to reach him because everything he cared about was dead. His wife died because of his actions, his kid died as well, (as far as he knew) I just feel that the best way to show him becoming solidly full dark side was for HIM to do the killing in a moment of rage at his love turning on him. Obi wan and the jedi order may have been messed up, but I just dont see them influencing then killing a pregnant woman.

A reason for him to hate the jedi order? The fact that virtually every decision they made in regards to him was wrong, pretty much every painful thing that happens to him is down to the jedi. Whether its their direct actions or even just the missions he goes on on their orders. Every moment of pain he suffers is because of the jedi order in some way. Things like, them attacking him when they show up to arrest palpatine, then being left to burn to death, or some other equally gruesome near death by obi wan that leaves him in hideous constant pain and inside permanent life support? I can see that causing him to hate the jedi.

DomaDoma
2012-02-12, 12:07 AM
Traab: how, exactly, is a morally conflicted manipulator who is both an inspirational figure and a cold-blooded calculator inferior to an evil-versus-evil scenario that leaves you too uncomfortable to use a lot of the best quotes in the series?

Bastian Weaver
2012-02-12, 04:58 AM
I had to stop reading X-Men years ago because of all that stuff. But you can't really 'fix' a comic book. As one of the things that drives long time fans like me crazy is the retcon stuff. Like, oh you know character X that you have seen for 150 issues...oh, well he was, surprise, a robot! Yup, his evil robot double from the future replaced him! And that is fine, except for the 1,344 mistakes it makes. So in issue 322 The Drano stole the robots mutant power? And issue he just pretended the gas knocked him out or does the robot breathe? And so on.

Yeah, I see what you mean. It's like when Marvel said Reed Richards created a clone of Thor during Civil War, and after everyone and their brother said "Umm, hello? He cloned a god? Really?", it was changed from "clone" to "cyborg". As if it would make more sense.

KingofMadCows
2012-02-12, 06:21 AM
I would have made KotoR 3 instead of ToR.

The True Sith would not be a massive army of conquerors. Instead, they'd be a mysterious group of saboteurs and manipulators who orchestrate circumstances and events to lay bare the hypocrisy and weakness of Republic so that it would be fractured from within. Their goal would not be to conquer or destroy the Republic but to make the galaxy see how wrong they were in following the Republic and the Jedi in the first place.

Their empire will be built upon the shattered dreams and broken will of the Republic. The true victory they seek is to have people acknowledge the greatness of the Sith, to admit that the Sith were right all along, and to wholeheartedly adopt Sith doctrine as the foundation for their society.

thubby
2012-02-12, 10:15 AM
would have written out the time travel from dbz and ended with the cell arc. this would involve the androids attacking before goku gets back, and cell being in the background feeding while that's going on.

inuyasha would have ended a lot sooner (im thinking after backlash wave, before adamant one) and cut a lot of filler. that would bring the romances to resolution much more organically.

bleach would be over because it would have ended with aizen's death, caused by a combination of gin's unsuccessful but debilitating sneak attack and ichigo going protagonist on his face. notable would be opportunistic strikes coming from a few of the captains, some of which might die when aizen retaliates.

song of ice and fire would spend more time on each character before moving on and remove all of those instances where something awesome is about to happen, then it cuts away.
also, i would move the perspective to Robb Stark instead of his mother, since she is functionally telling his story.

wise man's fears, get through the felurian thing more quickly.

night angel trilogy, wouldn't have made blint such a huge historical figure in the last book. and honestly, i felt the female assassin was unnecessary drama.
over all i would have reigned in the power level in the last book.

Traab
2012-02-12, 10:40 AM
FF8. I would have gotten rid of the aliens. Seriously, I stopped playing shortly after that, just because it annoyed me so freaking much. I no longer even remember why the hell I was on a space ship, or why I was fighting aliens, I just know that if I wanted to fight aliens, id be playing Phantasy Star, not final fantasy. Did they serve any real purpose in the story at all?

Tiki Snakes
2012-02-12, 12:11 PM
FF8. I would have gotten rid of the aliens. Seriously, I stopped playing shortly after that, just because it annoyed me so freaking much. I no longer even remember why the hell I was on a space ship, or why I was fighting aliens, I just know that if I wanted to fight aliens, id be playing Phantasy Star, not final fantasy. Did they serve any real purpose in the story at all?

...I don't actually remember any aliens in FF8.
Which probably answers your question. :smallcool:

Traab
2012-02-12, 01:29 PM
...I don't actually remember any aliens in FF8.
Which probably answers your question. :smallcool:

Here (http://www.ffinsider.net/final-fantasy-8/walk3-5.php) is a link to the walkthrough chapter where you fight aliens.

IrnBruAddict
2012-02-12, 05:56 PM
For Bleach:


Follow the Bleach Pilot closer. Orihime is a ghost stuck in Karakura town, Ichigo is more badass (never turns emo), Rukia is more playful and can shrink. Keep Karin but get rid of Yuzu. Make Gin the bad guy. No Hogyoku, no BS Aizen. If Ichigo is a Vaizard its because his mum was a Hollow. No normal Vaizard or Arrancar, just monster Hollow and Menos and Vastro Lords.


You know what, just go back in time and force Kubo to finish Zombie Powder instead of Bleach. Bleach is way too messed up. Zombie Powder was good.

Gnoman
2012-02-12, 07:41 PM
...I don't actually remember any aliens in FF8.
Which probably answers your question. :smallcool:

He's referring to the color-coded enemies that you fight to claim the Ragnarok.



As for the massive "technology" increase between the SW prequels and the original trilogy, that makes a ton of logical sense, more than most things in the universe. Based solely on the film, it seems that purpose-built warships were not all that common in the era before the Clone Wars. The buildup from Acclamators and Venators to the Victory and Imperial class ships is more a case of adapting the existing technology to military means than it is an improvement in technology as a whole.

On topic, I'd remove the demons from Final Fantasy Tactics. The political machinations were far more interesting.

Tiki Snakes
2012-02-12, 07:53 PM
I remember them now. Almost. I remember the Ragnorak, and that I had to fight something to reclaim it.
I would not say they stood out in my memory or had any further plot significance, that's for sure. :smallbiggrin:

The Durvin
2012-02-12, 08:08 PM
Due to some pretty big shifts in how TV shows are done, there are a bunch of shows that never got their fair shot because they were done a decade or two earlier than they should have been--shows that would be pretty awesome if they were done now, with executives willing to allow sitcoms that aren't soundstage-and-studio-audience, the advent of the surreal action cartoon for grown-ups, that sort of thing.
* "3rd Rock from the Sun" should have been in the style of the modern dramedy, anywhere between Scrubs and Malcolm in the Middle.
* "Sam & Max: Freelance Police" really should have been part of the first Adult Swim block; they're just not kids' show material, and toning them down lost a lot. (It did make lines like "hit me again, Sam, I like it!" even funnier.)
* "God, the Devil and Bob" could have been a really great show if they'd known what to do with it; heck, it could have taken "Family Guy"'s place in culture, because when they were on-target, it was the same kind of thing (minus the manatee-jokes).

darthbobcat
2012-02-12, 10:08 PM
For Inuyasha, I'd make 3 changes. For extra fun, I won't say "make the show about Miroku and Sango" (my first instinct) and "make it shorter." The way manga work as a medium, telling Rumihiko Takahashi to end it faster is akin to saying "please cost yourself a lot of money, since there's no guarantee that you'll be able to come up with a premise that will be as popular later."

1) Kagome is stuck in the past.

The fact that Kagome can run back and forth at will undercut the show a lot. There was never an interesting incident in the future; the most going to the future got us was Inuyasha running around in a baseball cap, which always made me smile for how silly it was.

If Kagome's stuck in the past, she can't escape. She's stuck in more or less a foreign culture with none of the amenities she's used to.

2) Diversify the villains.

Imagine this: the Emperor of Japan's wife/beloved concubine is sick with a lingering illness (doesn't have to be an emperor, it could just be a Daimyo). Every doctor and holy man in the country has come to try and help her, but nothing has worked. Then, a strange man in a skull mask and white cloak comes before him and tells him of the jewel shards. He claims that if the Emperor can reassemble the gem, that magic can be used to restore her to health.

Suddenly, the two sided war to get the jewel shards is a three sided war. Sure, as the series is, human soldiers are no threat to a demon. However, 1) that can be changed; either power down the demon, or come up with ways to power up certain elite humans, and 2) if the Emperor finds out that someone is hoarding the jewel shards, they just got a big bounty on their heads and they can't traipse around the country casually anymore.

If the series has to be epic length, then the addition of new enemies, especially sympathetic enemies, goes a long ways towards giving you material to make those chapters more than filler.

3) Kagome has to grow up.

#1 will help with this, but being around death and destruction in a pre industrial society should leave Kagome a changed person if and/or when she returns to the future. There should be some character growth in response to this.

And those are my changes. Now, if I could only make one change, I'd make one that's pretty minor in the scheme of things, but something I was always curious about: what happened to the demons in the future? I had this theory that when the show ended, the magic of the Jewel would be used to turn every demon in the world into a human, hence the lack of demons in the future, but that wasn't the case.

thubby
2012-02-12, 10:52 PM
For Inuyasha, I'd make 3 changes. For extra fun, I won't say "make the show about Miroku and Sango" (my first instinct) and "make it shorter." The way manga work as a medium, telling Rumihiko Takahashi to end it faster is akin to saying "please cost yourself a lot of money, since there's no guarantee that you'll be able to come up with a premise that will be as popular later."


the writer has enough solid IP to not want for money. and on principle art should not be compromised for money.

Omergideon
2012-02-12, 10:59 PM
Inevitable references to Star Wars to be done first: No massive changes I think need be done. The Prequels are all decent enough at worst, even if AoTC is the weakest of the 3. And with that one it is more dialogue and acting at fault, not the plot which works for me. So I would have only a few minor changes.

1) I do think Ani should be a little older (3/4 years) on the phantom Menace, but not a full on adult. His being a bit older would make it more clear he has abandonment/letting go issues that would help tie in his overall theme. Plus it makes his being heroic in the final battle easier to swallow and allows it to be a bigger part of his overall plot. A teenager is still young, but old enough to begin showing the character flaws that lead to his downfall.

2) Really rework the dialogue for Anakin and Padme in Episode 2. They did not fall in love believably enough, but with better dialogue this could work. Especially with better acting on Anakin's part (recast if necessary).

3) Along with dialogue make it a little more clear in tPM and AoTC that Anakin is not happy with Jedi life. Just have him criticise more, be more loose with his tongue and have more legit complaints. The rest of his character seems ok.

4) For RoTS we need only 2 changes to make this already good movie even better. Add a scene of Anakin doing something a little less evil than killing younglings, BEFORE he gets to them. Amybe some shots of him with the Adult Jedi slowly getting to younger ones, but becoming more enraged so it is easier to get him offing the kids. And 2 return the scene of Grvious killing a Jedi before he is confronted on the ship in the opening. Adds some more tension to the fight with Obi-Wan. Especially if he gets name dropped in AoTC once or twice.


That is all for Star Wars.


In other media, I would say the the nBSG would be VERY different if I were in charge of it. For one the biocylons would be a much smaller part of the plot, and the earth/final 5 revelations would be right out. I would have made the biocylons a specialised infiltrator unit, not the leaders of the race, and kept the robots in charge.

In other changes I would findamentally alter 1 character relationship above all others. Starbuck and Apollo do not become romantically involved. Ever. They are firends, close friends, and it may be teased once or twice but no real relationships. It is tired, predictable, and almost ruined 2 characters in the show.

Really what the show needed was a small sense of hope once in a while. It was too dark too often. The characters were almost all impossibly horrible people to the point where the only one I liked half the time was Helo. The only main character who did not advocate or participate in genocide. A few minor victories here or there. Some successes on occasion. That would help the show immensely. I would need to think hard about how, but even soemthing as simple as them finding a human colony from earth (who lost contact a while ago) would be amazing for them. Nothing that could be a permanent base, but somewhere they could refuel, rest for an ep, show they are headed somewhere with some positives.

How I would do this is something I am not sure about beyond these vague ideas. But in all seriousness it got too dark and needed to lighten up eventually.

Seerow
2012-02-12, 11:11 PM
ASoIAF: I would have gone with GRRM's original plan, instituting a 5 year gap and skipping a huge chunk of AFFC and ADWD. Alternatively, start the series 5 years later, with all of the cast aged appropriately. Dany/Jon are 19 not 14, Sansa is 17, etc. Yes we'd miss out on some dynamics of them as children, but given Martin admits he sucks at writing children, I don't think this would be a huge loss.

I also would have given a Iron Islands and Dornish PoV in book 1. Assuming that they have a more important role to play later in the series, that is. Since book 1 focused almost entirely on the North and Kings landing, the shift to Dorne and Iron Islands in later books is jarring, and annoys a lot of readers. Either have them integrated into the cast from the start, so it feels like they're a part of the overarching story... or if they're not going to really play a major role then axe their parts entirely. (Though I would be very sad to miss Victarion in ADWD).



Wheel of Time: Pretty much everything between Books 4 or 5 and 10 would be condensed greatly. There's about 7 books in there that could have been 2-3. I don't really hate the meandering pace, but I do think that wrapping up some storylines such as the Bowl of Winds and Faile going missing would have helped the series tremendously.

I also would have liked more info on the black tower earlier. We're suddenly getting a lot of tidbits thrown at us in the last few books, I would have liked to have had a point of view there from its founding. As it is, we know something big is coming there, but however it plays out I can't help but feel it's going to seem rushed and forced.

Also in the most recent book... I'd redo basically everything to do with the Finn's from the ground up. For what was supposed to be the climax of Mat's character arc, it felt really hollow. Perrin's story in ToM was MUCH more fulfilling overall. With Mat it just didn't really feel as important or fulfilling. Honestly the fight with the shapechanger thing was more climatic than the stuff in the tower, and that's really disappointing. I have no idea how it could have been made to feel more important due to the nature of the Finn's though.





Star Wars: Ideally rather than movies, I'd rather see it as a TV show with a movie level budget. I know it'd never happen, but even something along the lines of the Clone Wars I think would be okay. The problem is the movies don't give enough time to give the characterization some of the stuff involved needs, so we get a lot of telling without a lot of showing. I actually really do like the Clone Wars tv show, and it to me represents a glimpse of what the prequels could have been had there been more time available.

Other than that, I agree with a lot of what others have said. Introduce Anakin as older, basically removing the entire first movie. Put all the focus on Anakin and his story. The young Jedi war hero who slowly turns away from the core principles of the Jedi due to the expedience necessary for the war.

darthbobcat
2012-02-12, 11:53 PM
the writer has enough solid IP to not want for money. and on principle art should not be compromised for money.

Point granted. I'm just saying, it's not in her interest in general to make it shorter, and it's a rather obviously suggestion, since it's about the #1 thing I hear whenever Inuyasha is brought up. I think that an epic length work based on the premise could, in principle, be really awesome.

DigoDragon
2012-02-13, 08:15 AM
My roommate and I recently watched the Star Trek: Insurrection review over on the That Guy with the Glasses website.

Our thought was to ditch that movie entirely and in its place make a two-part Nemesis movie that dealt with the Romulan situation during the Dominion War (Which indeed was going on during DS9 at the time).
The young Picard clone character stages a coup and takes over the Romulan government, sparking a civil war that threatens to spill over the neutral zone and into Federation space. Because most of Starfleet is fighting the Dominion War, the Enterprise E is dispatched with only a handful of "privateer" escort ships to see what they can do to stall the Romulan problem.

Some ideas we had:
1. Eliminate the entire "B4" plot arc.
2. Give time to flesh out more of the Romulan culture, and show more of the dynamics with the two races there.
3. Show that the Enterprise E can really be the "flagship" it's supposed to be in winning some space battles.
4. Break some rules, such as have the Enterprise steal a cloaking device.

Feytalist
2012-02-13, 08:39 AM
I would acquire the rights to the V for Vendetta movie and then not make it.