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View Full Version : Sudden Metamagic [D&D 3.5, Feat]



Ziegander
2012-02-12, 03:43 PM
Sudden Metamagic
Prerequisites: Any metamagic feat
Benefit: Once per day for each [Metamagic] feat you have you may apply that feat's effect to a spell you cast without increasing the spell's level or the level of the spell slot, and without needing to prepare it ahead of time. You can still use your [Metamagic] feats normally.
Special: You may only use this feat if the level of the spell slot that would normally be expended to cast the spell is less than or equal to your caster level + 1.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it beyond the first you may use the feat's benefit an additional time per day for each [Metamagic] feat you have.

bobthe6th
2012-02-12, 03:58 PM
hmm... this gives me an Idea!

at the same time... still has the problem of classic sudden meta. you need to dump most of your feats into this to do much with it.

perhaps run it like turn attempts? set number + ability modifier?

Noctis Vigil
2012-02-12, 04:05 PM
I'm pretty sure the feat name is already taken by an official WotC feat (that has a somewhat similar effect). I'd have to dig through my books to be sure though. I do know that there are several Sudden X metamagic feats that only apply to a specific metamagic; I think they were in one of the Complete books.

This feat seems interesting. So you can apply each metamagic feat you know once, or you get a number of free applications of metamagic equal to the number of metamagic feats you have? How would this effect metamagics that stack with other metamagics (not sure if there are any non-Epic stacking metamagics in WotC material, but I've seen a few epic and some homebrew metamagics that do)?

bobthe6th
2012-02-12, 04:12 PM
The name is different. the sudden meta was rather sudden x...

and those mechanics were a bit weak. 1-3/day depending on feat. with this I could see runing with 4 copies and 3 meta feats, but that is one hell of a feat chain.

Seerow
2012-02-12, 04:15 PM
So basically if you have Sudden Metamagic, Quicken spell, Empower Spell, and Maximize Spell, you would get effectively 1/day Quicken, 1/day Empower, and 1/day Maximize?

Seems better than the current (very much meh) Sudden ____ feats. Though maybe something like the Luck Feats where each time you get a metamagic feat, you get an extra few points added to a pool, and you can use them on different metamagics as you see fit.

So with the above example, rather than each of those 1/day, you have 9 levels worth of free spell slot adjustment you can apply to your spells spontaneously each day.

Noctis Vigil
2012-02-12, 04:21 PM
It is a heavy feat tax, but sudden meta spells at no increased cost are pretty powerful, and if you're investing in metamagic it's a worthwhile cost. Also, if playing as a Wizard, you get bonus feats anyways, so you could take extra metamagics for those, netting you seven metamagic feats and four copies of this, getting you 28 free metamagics a day. Actually, if you took six metamagic feats and 5 of these you'd get 30 free metamagics a day; I think that's the peak of what you can get. Still, 30 free metamagics is more than enough, I think. Drop one of the copies some item creation goodness and you still get 24 free metamagics. This feat is plenty powerful, but not overpowered for the price. I would leave it as is.

Ziegander
2012-02-12, 04:34 PM
So basically if you have Sudden Metamagic, Quicken spell, Empower Spell, and Maximize Spell, you would get effectively 1/day Quicken, 1/day Empower, and 1/day Maximize?

Seerow's got it right.


This feat is plenty powerful, but not overpowered for the price. I would leave it as is.

That was how I felt about it, and what I was shooting for. Also, don't forget the "Special" limitation: "You may only use this feat if the level of the spell slot that would normally be expended to cast the spell is less than or equal to your caster level."

Noctis Vigil
2012-02-13, 06:22 PM
That was how I felt about it, and what I was shooting for. Also, don't forget the "Special" limitation: "You may only use this feat if the level of the spell slot that would normally be expended to cast the spell is less than or equal to your caster level."

This really isn't a big deal. At level 15, I can tack a Sudden Quicken or a Sudden Maximize on a Fireball or any other low-level scaling-damage spell. At level 20, I can cast a Sudden Quicken Sudden Empower Sudden Enlarge Fireball, and with the right feat setup I can do it in the same round as a Sudden Maximize Sudden Empower Sudden Enlarge Fireball. All your limiter does is keep me from using every metamagic I have at once; it doesn't stop me from being the king of novas.

Ziegander
2012-02-13, 06:26 PM
This really isn't a big deal. At level 15, I can tack a Sudden Quicken or a Sudden Maximize on a Fireball or any other low-level scaling-damage spell. At level 20, I can cast a Sudden Quicken Sudden Empower Sudden Enlarge Fireball, and with the right feat setup I can do it in the same round as a Sudden Maximize Sudden Empower Sudden Enlarge Fireball. All your limiter does is keep me from using every metamagic I have at once; it doesn't stop me from being the king of novas.

No, that's fine. What it does do is stop you from getting a free Quickened 1st level spell, for example, until you could cast 5th level spells. Perhaps more importantly, the same restriction is true of Persistent Spell.