Kids - Are they worth it?

[celtois]

The question here is really summed up by the title.
I've been engaged in a number of discussions recently about the topic of having children, namely my dislike of this idea.

I had three reasons, one I will mention only in passing due to it being related to politics.
Reason one: I might be a bad parent
Reason two: I don't like the way the modern world is set up for a raising a child
Reason three: The hardships of parenting might not be worth it. Kids=trouble

Now I'm providing these reasons mostly for context. The first two you can't really answer and I've been satisfied with the arguments provided already.

So the real question here is about reason three: Are kids worth all the trouble?
(Disclaimers:
-I don't care if you have direct experience or not, I'm just curious to see reasons for one way or the other.
-Objective reasons with this sort of thing are hard, so personal stories are also totally acceptable, though objective arguments about the value are appreciated
- There is no directly applicable circumstance to which this question applies, or is likely to apply for years, it is purely curiosity. )

Thank you for your time. :smallsmile:

[Grinner]

I had this same discussion with my mother several times, and she always used the argument "Because they're fun".

I suspect that has something to do with hormones, but I'm not particularly fit to comment on that.

[Mutant Sheep]

I'm just strange in that I see having kids as my genetic imperative. I have good jeans genes, I really should pass them on.:smalltongue: Population replacement rate babble, etc goes *here*, made up socioeconomic stuff goes *here*.:smallamused:

Actually on kids, I think that raising a kid (or more) would be an... experience. I'd have far more empathy for other parents, especially the ones who had to raise ME. Not to mention not having kids and being 70 sounds really lame. No having grandkids to tell stories to when I'm old and grey? That's half the reason TO grow up!:smalltongue: (Really, I DO look forward to being old and grey, just because I've convinced myself I'd be awesome at the 'cool old grandpa' thing.:smallbiggrin:)

[Savannah]

For some people, yes. For me, hell no. I'd much rather have dogs and rats -- more warm fuzzy cuddles and less screaming.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I had this same discussion with my mother several times, and she always used the argument "Because they're fun".

I suspect that has something to do with hormones, but I'm not particularly fit to comment on that.

That's not hormones, that's nostalgia and/or lots of good luck.

[Tengu_temp]

If you worry that kids will be trouble and raising them will take a lot of your time, money and effort, then don't have kids. All of this is absolutely true, and a good parent has to look beyond all this and be self-sacrificing, putting the good of the kids above all else. And if you're not going to be a good parent, it's better not to have kids at all.

Coincidentally, that's why I don't want to have children - I value my free time. Also, I'm not a fan of the little buggers.

[Bhu]

Do you have a large amount of money in the bank, a stable relationship that will last the amount of hell you will shortly endure, and good insurance? If you can say no to any of these, skip kids till you can answer yes.

I will admit to slight bias as the majority of my friends and relatives who have gotten divorced do so over one of three reasons: money, kids, or sex. People can be surprisingly selfish and resistant to change, as well as unwilling to sacrifice their own time and money. You will have little in the way of knowing this about your partner until it's too late. Then it's divorce, alimony, and child support. Discuss it thoroughly with your intended partner, because if things go bad, they really go bad when kids are involved.

[Traab]

I would be a horrible parent, as such I wont be having kids any time soon. I cant stand the noisy hyper little bastards. I thanked every god I could think of the day my niece was finally old enough to amuse herself, whether watching tv, on the computer, or playing outside. I HATE it when the two year old child of my sisters boyfriend comes over to visit. The kid has no speeds other than off and turbo. He spends the entire visit sprinting from one end of the house to another, and if you dont follow him he will always find some way to cause problems, no matter how hard I try to baby proof the house. God I hate little kids.

[danzibr]

Well, to put it briefly, my son is 13 months old and I wouldn't trade being a father for anything.

[Madara]

Well, to put it briefly, my son is 13 months old and I wouldn't trade being a father for anything.

*Waits for the "aww"s* :smallsmile:

Yep, kids can be worth it. But the irony is, only when you aren't asking "What do I get out of it?" will you truly enjoy the little people.
But let's ask this: How many years did you spend in school? Was it worth it? All that work you put in?
Maybe the individual parts weren't worth it. The homework wasted your time, and you forgot half the things you learned. But when you look back, would you want to have not gone to school?

Having a child is the experience as a whole. Some little moments will be just wonderful, and sometimes they'll be just :smallfurious:. But, at the end, you can look back and see the rewards before your eyes.
So yes, kids are worth it. In gaming terms its like taking Leadership, if your willing to keep track of the extra sheets, its worth it. :smallsmile:

[AtlanteanTroll]

Kids are great fun, and I don't get why people think they're such a hassle. Then again, all I do as a Day Camp Counselor and as a childcare provider. So, I get to be the cool big brother figure as opposed to a father figure. The latter does happens sometimes though ... I think.

[Anxe]

In my high school psychology class we learned that kids are not worth it for the average person. The average parent is not as happy as the average not-parent. Doesn't necessarily mean that kids make all the people who have them unhappy. It might mean that not-parents are just happier on average.

Some people say having kids is a method of being immortal by leaving something behind you when you die, but you can accomplish other things as a not-parent that can be just as personally significant (Curing AIDS, etc.).

[Anarion]

Do you have a large amount of money in the bank, a stable relationship that will last the amount of hell you will shortly endure, and good insurance? If you can say no to any of these, skip kids till you can answer yes.

I will admit to slight bias as the majority of my friends and relatives who have gotten divorced do so over one of three reasons: money, kids, or sex. People can be surprisingly selfish and resistant to change, as well as unwilling to sacrifice their own time and money. You will have little in the way of knowing this about your partner until it's too late. Then it's divorce, alimony, and child support. Discuss it thoroughly with your intended partner, because if things go bad, they really go bad when kids are involved.

You forgot politics. :smallamused:

But to answer the question in the thread title, yes, they are. My cousin just gave birth today, and it was a beautiful thing, plus the baby is excruciatingly cute. When I find the right person and get married, I look forward to having a family of my own.

[valadil]

I've got a 5 month old. He's awesome. Anyway, let me address your concerns.

Reason one: I might be a bad parent

Everybody has this fear. It's healthy, it means you care about it. Literally billions of people have been parents before you, so how hard can it be?

Reason two: I don't like the way the modern world is set up for a raising a child

Me neither. But it's not getting better any time soon. The best thing I can do for the world is deploy part of myself as a member of the next generation. Okay, that's a little arrogant, but if you do raise a quality child maybe the world will be a better place for your grandchildren.

Reason three: The hardships of parenting might not be worth it. Kids=trouble

Most good things come with trouble. First time I was in a relationship it was constant trouble. But I learned that relationships are work. You can't just have one with anybody, you have to have a relationship with someone who is actually worth all that effort.

Anyway, my 5 month old is absolutely trouble and he isn't even mobile yet. I can only imagine what we'll go through when he's able to speak, leave the house, and break things. Raising him is going to be the biggest thing I ever do. But what else am I going to do with my life? Hoard money and play video games all day leaving myself wondering if I could have done something more? I'll take work and trouble over monotony any day.

[Tengu_temp]

Yep, kids can be worth it. But the irony is, only when you aren't asking "What do I get out of it?" will you truly enjoy the little people.

That is true. A lot of people worry about whether they should have kids, but their motivation makes all the difference: good parents worry that they might be bad parents (funny how that works, eh?), bad parents worry that the kids might be too much hassle. There are exceptions, but that's how it usually goes.


Kids are great fun, and I don't get why people think they're such a hassle. Then again, all I do as a Day Camp Counselor and as a childcare provider. So, I get to be the cool big brother figure as opposed to a father figure. The latter does happens sometimes though ... I think.

Even being a father figure requires much less responsibility, time and effort than raising a kid. Not to mention cash - children are a huge money drain.

Really, comparing working with kids to raising one is like comparing being a gamer to testing video games for a living. Or writing them.


But what else am I going to do with my life? Hoard money and play video games all day leaving myself wondering if I could have done something more? I'll take work and trouble over monotony any day.

Actually, that sounds pretty tempting to me. But then, I already stated that I don't want to have children.

Anyway, my point is: not everyone would make a good parent, and those who won't shouldn't be encouraged to have children. And there's nothing wrong with that, being a bad potential parent doesn't make you a worse person! Being a bad actual parent, on the other hand, does.

[Grinner]

I can't help but note that most of the posters praising the concept of parenthood are the ones whose children have yet to learn how to speak.

Just give them a couple of years. :smallamused:

[AtlanteanTroll]

Even being a father figure requires much less responsibility, time and effort than raising a kid. Not to mention cash - children are a huge money drain.

Really, comparing working with kids to raising one is like comparing being a gamer to testing video games for a living. Or writing them.
Oh, I never said it wasn't. *shrug* But I've got a lot more practice in the field under my belt then most other 17 year olds. And let's face it, there are a bunch of 17 year old fathers.

[Starwulf]

Do you have a large amount of money in the bank, a stable relationship that will last the amount of hell you will shortly endure, and good insurance? If you can say no to any of these, skip kids till you can answer yes.

I will admit to slight bias as the majority of my friends and relatives who have gotten divorced do so over one of three reasons: money, kids, or sex. People can be surprisingly selfish and resistant to change, as well as unwilling to sacrifice their own time and money. You will have little in the way of knowing this about your partner until it's too late. Then it's divorce, alimony, and child support. Discuss it thoroughly with your intended partner, because if things go bad, they really go bad when kids are involved.

All 3 aren't always necessary. Me and my wife are fairly well dirt poor due to my back, and we manage to raise our kids just fine. They have food, clothing, shelter, and even some entertainment. Pretty happy kids over-all.

Of course, I realize that you say this because of a bias(as you pretty much said), but I just wanted to make sure it was known that money isn't that necessary. Love, and stability however, ARE necessary, which me and my wife have.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Of course, I realize that you say this because of a bias(as you pretty much said), but I just wanted to make sure it was known that money isn't that necessary. Love, and stability however, ARE necessary, which me and my wife have.
Money does tend to lead to stability though.

[Trog]

I wouldn't trade my boys for anything in the world. Kids are worth it.

It's an attitude I don't pretend I'll convince anyone without kids of because, to be honest, you cannot fully understand why they are worth it until you see your child come into the world. And I don't mean this is in a snooty look-down-my-nose-at-those-without-kids way but in a you-cannot-know-what-being-in-love-is-like-until-you-fall-in-love-for-the-first-time sort of way.

[RabbitHoleLost]

Occasionally, I get this supreme level of what I like to call "baby want", and then I remember that I, myself, had to raise my younger brother for the first five years of his life, starting from when I was only ten.

I got a taste of what its like to have kids, and I don't care if he didn't come straight out of me, it was enough. I have given too much of my childhood up to rear other children.

I feel like its all very subjective, though. Some people are made to be parents. Some people are not.
I am of the latter.

[Savannah]

I can't help but note that most of the posters praising the concept of parenthood are the ones whose children have yet to learn how to speak.

Just give them a couple of years. :smallamused:

Nah, if I ever have kids, I'm adopting a teen or preteen -- it's only once they start talking and reasoning that I can handle kids :smallwink:

[Peanut Gallery]

Trying to explain why kids are worth it to someone who doesn't want them is like trying to explain why you'd rather be at home watching a new episode of your favorite show (or playing the new video game you just bought) instead of going out to a club and drinking/dancing the night away. You're both gonna shake your heads and think, "Man they don't know what they're missing."

That said, I imagine the oxytocin high is pretty nice. I mean, I love my pets and I do all sorts of nasty disgusting things for them when they're sick, and spend stupid amounts of money on medicine and healthy food. I figure it's the same as that just ramped up.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Nah, if I ever have kids, I'm adopting a teen or preteen -- it's only once they start talking and reasoning that I can handle kids :smallwink:

Teenagers can reason?

[Savannah]

Yes, they can. Sometimes you have to push them to do so, but they can.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Yes, they can. Sometimes you have to push them to do so, but they can.

Huh. I was pretty sure we couldn't.

[Coidzor]

Are you asking if the economic investment pays off in the long run?

Are you asking if one derives more positive emotions as a result of being a parent than negative?

Because such a nebulous, vague question won't get you the answer you want, and probably isn't really the question you want to be asking.

[Crow]

Kids are great fun!

I Love my kids, but I hate other people's kids. You won't understand until you have some of your own.

[Juggling Goth]

I'm too solitary and crazy. Noise sends me into sensory overload meltdown, and people in my personal space freak me out. Kids have no sense of boundaries, and I really couldn't deal with that. I need to be around people who can regulate their own behaviour and mostly leave me alone.

And I'd need to go off my psych meds. Which would be a Very Bad Thing.

Also, I know there's adoption, but pregnancy and childbirth make most horror fiction redundant as far as I'm concerned. EW and OW in equal measure. Move over, entire Saw franchise: kindly Mother Nature outdid you millions of years ago.

[Killer Angel]

Reason one: I might be a bad parent


This doubt will continue even when you're a parent.


Reason two: I don't like the way the modern world is set up for a raising a child

I can see that, and I could agree. It's only one more thing to work around.


Reason three: The hardships of parenting might not be worth it. Kids=trouble


Usually it is.


So the real question here is about reason three: Are kids worth all the trouble?
[I](Disclaimers:
-I don't care if you have direct experience or not, I'm just curious to see reasons for one way or the other.
:

Without direct experience, how can you trust someone saying "yes, it's worth it?". :smallconfused:


I can't help but note that most of the posters praising the concept of parenthood are the ones whose children have yet to learn how to speak.


When thay start, it's even better. :smallsmile:
Yes, it's hard, it's difficult, they'll give you headaches and you will remember with nostalgia the times when you were "free". But the joy they give to you, it's totally worth it.

[Zar Peter]

3 kids, 12, 10 and 7 years old.

In the beginning it was hell but fun. Nothing to do then taking care that they don't hurt themselves.

Then, when they began to speak they began to talk back. Still fun but exhausting but you could meddle with their minds. :smallbiggrin:

Then they were starting to read. It's getting easier the more they know but they demand more and want to know more. Still fun.

So, parenthood is exhausting, mental and physical, you get angry at yourself sometimes because you got angry at your kids for nothing (for example making a bend in your OOTS book).

But I can't wait to see grow them up and becoming whole personalities and trying to make the world better by making them good persons. All in all I never regret my decission to become a father.

[Fiery Diamond]

The question here is really summed up by the title.
I've been engaged in a number of discussions recently about the topic of having children, namely my dislike of this idea.

I had three reasons, one I will mention only in passing due to it being related to politics.
Reason one: I might be a bad parent
Reason two: I don't like the way the modern world is set up for a raising a child
Reason three: The hardships of parenting might not be worth it. Kids=trouble

Now I'm providing these reasons mostly for context. The first two you can't really answer and I've been satisfied with the arguments provided already.

So the real question here is about reason three: Are kids worth all the trouble?
(Disclaimers:
-I don't care if you have direct experience or not, I'm just curious to see reasons for one way or the other.
-Objective reasons with this sort of thing are hard, so personal stories are also totally acceptable, though objective arguments about the value are appreciated
- There is no directly applicable circumstance to which this question applies, or is likely to apply for years, it is purely curiosity. )

Thank you for your time. :smallsmile:

My reply would be: If you have to ask the question, the answer is "no, not for you." The answer might be completely different for someone else, however; not everyone is suited to be or desires to be a parent.

[dehro]

I'm the eldest of 6 in an extended family (2nd in 7 you count the evil one, daughter of the even worse one we do not speak off in forum-appropriate terms)
I've got the feeling I've changed all the nappies I care to change for a lifetime or two and I've been pretty much responsible for any number of my siblings at various ages, from when I was 6-8 years old.
I'm not in a hurry.
also, single, with no prospect of finding a girlfriend, at 33 and having pretty much rebooted my professional career from scratch last year, I feel like I am nowhere near the right place to take responsability for a little version of myself.

that said, my dad was 36, jobless and living in a country he didn't know the language off, when I was born, and he did allright, so I know I've got time. I aim to have at least 1 or 2 children, and be the best father I can possibly be for them.
why?
many reasons...
I and one of my brothers are the last males in the family to carry my surname and to be able to pass it on to a next generation..a surname that is rare enough to begin with.. My sense of historical imperative tingles at me....(yes, I know, this is one of the lamest reasons ever)
I think becoming a father would teach me how to be less of a moron than I am now
I like to think I'd have a thing or two to teach my offspring, in terms of values, experience..
I've seen many parents (lately many of my oldest friends are multiplying like they just survived a biblical flood)..and most of them, those who had children for what I will broadly call "the right reasons" seem to be beaming with happyness about the little toddlers. I like to think I'm due a little happyness.

are they worth it? I think so

[Mordokai]

Plain and simple, no. For the exact same reasons you put up. And I pretty much can't stand the little buggers. They are noisy, slimy and smelly and that's before they get out of diapers. The idea of having to put up with another me is enough to make me check myself into Arkham Asylum right now. As I see it right now, I would treat the kid as an elaborate toy and I know enough that that is the wrong way to treat a child.

And besides, I'm probably one of the few people who have no inclination to pass my genes on. When I finally bit it, I want to be the last. So unless I hit myself really hard on the noggin, I don't think I'll ever have kids.

[Katana_Geldar]

I think they are, in the end anyway. I have two younger sisters, and I've worked with kids when I studied teaching...which I know is nothing compared to having your own (at least according to Cracked anyway), but I still want to have them and so does my fiancé.

Sure, there's sacrifices and there'll be some hard goings on an trouble (particularly considering I'll be carrying said child) but it is something we both want to do.

Can I also say that something like this would be worth breaking up over? It's far too important, I think, and if you want to have kids and your partner doesn't, then I suggest keep looking.

[Whiffet]

Speaking as someone who only has her parents' opinions to go off of... if you think kids might be too much trouble, it's probably not for you. But OH HOW COULD YOU NOT WANT KIDS THEY'RE THE BEST blah blah blah.

Obviously my parents are expressing a bit of a biased opinion here. :smallwink:

EDIT: The attitude behind your questions on kids is what matters. If you think, "What if I'm not good enough for the kids?" then it means you have the best interests of the children at heart. If you're wondering, "What if the kids are too much trouble and disrupt my life?" then you're thinking about your own personal interests. Being a good parent requires some degree of selflessness and putting the kids first.

Again, this is from someone who hasn't actually been a parent, so take it with a grain of salt.

[truemane]

Part of the problem with the 'Kids' talk is that, most of the time, having children is akin to a religious conversion: it's not an experience that can be discussed or understood rationally. There's you before kids and there's you with kids. And ne'er the twain shall meet.

I never wanted kids. Hated them. But then I had one and he's my whole life. And it took a while for that to sink in. You don't love your kids so much as you fall in love with them. And, like love, no matter what it looks like to anyone from the outside, on the inside it's all worthwhile.

There are exceptions of various kinds, sure. From people who are born wanting children to people who never bond with their own children, and a whole spectrum in between.

But, most of the time, once you have them, you love them, and they change your life to the point where you can't even really imagine life without them. That's the 'wouldn't change fatherhood for anything' line. Which I also feel is true.

Also, the other complicating factor is that, almost certainly, your feelings on the matter will change over time. You might hate the buggers now, but once your 'biological clock' starts firing off, you may find yourself feeling very differently.

[Crow]

Part of the problem with the 'Kids' talk is that, most of the time, having children is akin to a religious conversion: it's not an experience that can be discussed or understood rationally. There's you before kids and there's you with kids. And ne'er the twain shall meet.

I never wanted kids. Hated them. But then I had one and he's my whole life. And it took a while for that to sink in. You don't love your kids so much as you fall in love with them. And, like love, no matter what it looks like to anyone from the outside, on the inside it's all worthwhile.

There are exceptions of various kinds, sure. From people who are born wanting children to people who never bond with their own children, and a whole spectrum in between.

But, most of the time, once you have them, you love them, and they change your life to the point where you can't even really imagine life without them. That's the 'wouldn't change fatherhood for anything' line. Which I also feel is true.

Also, the other complicating factor is that, almost certainly, your feelings on the matter will change over time. You might hate the buggers now, but once your 'biological clock' starts firing off, you may find yourself feeling very differently.

QFT. Seriously.

[Brother Oni]

I agree with most posters. It's bloody hard work, but there are these little moments that make all that hard work worthwhile, from when they work out how to do something for themselves, to an adorably cute thing they do.

[Slipperychicken]

In gaming terms its like taking Leadership, if your willing to keep track of the extra sheets, its worth it. :smallsmile:

The DM builds it, it takes way longer than any campaign, and you may incur an alignment shift (and/or legal penalties) for forcing a re-roll.

[Slipperychicken]

In gaming terms its like taking Leadership, if your willing to keep track of the extra sheets, its worth it. :smallsmile:

The DM builds it, it takes way longer than any campaign, and you may incur an alignment shift (and/or legal penalties) for forcing a re-roll.

[celtois]

This is sort of a one dimensional topic, so I mean I don't really have much to add. Expect perhaps thank you for your time thus far.

Its really interesting to get different opinions on this sort of thing.

This isn't really throwing much a of wrench in things, more just prodding and seeing if any of you want to say anything more about it. But: I'm essentially going to post a brief explanation of what I meant by kids being difficult.

Somethings just come with the job of parenting. Getting up at all hours, changing diapers etc.
another might arise from how I am, examples. I was a nightmare to deal with as a kid. I constantly got into trouble, because I would challenge authority and the like
finally there are the elements of kids as they get older, and the subsequent worry of what they're up to. (me being a terrible worrywart)

Those are the essential downsides of having kids. (In my opinion)

Balancing factors would be stuff like:
The joy of community and family, that isn't as present without kids.
All the adorable moments, that come during the raising
Watching, and helping someone else develop as a mental and emotional being

Anyway. I don't know if you guys want to add to add other benefits or downsides that maybe I haven't really seen. Or if you want to tell any other stories about any of these factors to weaken or strengthen it. Or if you want to just let this topic drop, because I realize this sort of thing isn't exactly easy to explain on way or the other and it is personal, and as others have said you'll be affected if you do have kids.

But I just figured I'd drop this here so you at least had something else to work off if you want, and to tell you that I am reading what you're writing and I appreciate it. :smallsmile:

[ohkwarig]

Long time lurker, but first time poster because I wanted to throw in my two coppers...

I think truemane has it right. I personally have never counseled someone to have children, but I've never told anyone they shouldn't, either. I'm related to people by marriage who I would've thought would be inadequate and inattentive parents, and they're fantastic. I know people who I would've thought would be excellent parents who are not.

It is like a religious conversion. It's like trying to explain the Grand Canyon to someone who's never been there. There is much of the world that you understand much differently after you have children. For example, I had two dogs who I thought I loved like children. They were in my wedding. My wife was occasionally jealous of the attention I heaped upon them. The moment that my first son was born, I realized how wrong I was about the dogs. I still loved them just as much, but they did not compare to my son.

My grandmother is 94, has suffered several strokes, and most of the time has no idea who any of us are. When we brought my son to her, she said, "Now you understand, don't you?" That was all she said -- no context, no nothing, but I knew exactly what she meant. It was the most lucid thing she had said to me in years, and one of the most insightful things I've heard in my life.

I have three children now. My oldest is about to turn 4, so I can't comment much on the ages after that. I worry about them getting hurt or getting sick. I worry about teaching them the right things. They don't let me sleep enough, and they are very expensive. That is all more or less meaningless to me in the context of who they are, and I think that most parents who try to be good parents find that to be true.

[dehro]

welcome :smallsmile:

[RandomNPC]

Mine is six.

The first few months are the hardest, getting up every three hours to feed, change diapers, the like. If you survive that, you'll be golden.

The fact that you're worried about being a good parent speaks volumes, you'll be great. If you have the resources and time to do it, as well as the emotional power to do so, I don't see any reason to tell you no. The biggest concern recently, at least for me, is do you have a steady job that pays well enough to support a child?

My one bit of advice, when you say something like:

"Don't do *action X* or I'll *punishment X*"

Make absolutely sure you're ready to carry it out, every time you don't come through on something like that is another example they have saying they can get away with it. Note that X is on both sides, the punishment fits the crime, this lead to a decent fight with my wife because she said we wouldn't go to grandmas as punishment and he tested her, she made me make the call to say we weren't going. There was some resentment there for a while, so watch what you say.

[OverdrivePrime]

My wife and I didn't have our son until we were 34 - after just shy of 10 years of marriage. Some of that wait was by choice, some wasn't, but we wanted to make absolutely certain that we were in a financial, emotional and intellectual position to handle the challenge.

That was 11 months ago. We're finally getting about six hours of sleep a night, we each get about 5 hours of 'me time' a week, and some days we dare to think we've got a handle on things. A couple months ago I was averaging two blocks of 1-2 hours of sleep a night. It's very hard work, but it's not difficult work, if you can understand that.

And holy cow is it ever rewarding!

This morning I had to quick sterilize his clothes and my arm after a small diaper cataclysm, and then sprint off to take him to day care, and then book it to work. I snagged a granola bar for breakfast, skipped shaving and didn't get to pack myself much of a lunch, but I spent the whole day smiling because my little boy gave me a big hug and a slobbery kiss on my cheek before I left him at day care.

I am constantly struck by the notion that I would do absolutely anything to ensure my son's health and happiness. I love him ferociously, and in a very different way than I love my wife (obviously), but with a similar intensity. He makes me feel stronger, more resourceful, and more important than I have ever felt before.

That said, this is definitely not for everyone. Make sure you know yourself inside and out. Make sure you have the most stable foundation you possibly can, because your life is going to be turned upside down like you've never known. Your work will take a hit. Your relationship with your partner will go through new and different difficulties. You won't see your friends very often, and going to bed early will somehow start to seem luxurious. There will be a lot of odd, random expenses that would not have made any sense before the baby arrived. If you're prepared, you'll come out stronger. If not... good luck!

[Soylent Dave]

Nah, if I ever have kids, I'm adopting a teen or preteen -- it's only once they start talking and reasoning that I can handle kids

I never wanted children of my own, for many of the reasons the OP gives; I don't have a lot of patience, I don't really like very small children (boring, smelly, noisy etc.) and so on.

Life being what it is, of course, I've ended up as the stepfather to a teenager.

It's been one of the most meaningful experiences of my life.

(advice-wise I'd say, if you're not sure - don't have kids. You can always change your mind about not having children. You can't change your mind after you've had them...)

[Asta Kask]

I'm too solitary and crazy. Noise sends me into sensory overload meltdown, and people in my personal space freak me out. Kids have no sense of boundaries, and I really couldn't deal with that. I need to be around people who can regulate their own behaviour and mostly leave me alone.

And I'd need to go off my psych meds. Which would be a Very Bad Thing.

Also, I know there's adoption, but pregnancy and childbirth make most horror fiction redundant as far as I'm concerned. EW and OW in equal measure. Move over, entire Saw franchise: kindly Mother Nature outdid you millions of years ago.

Well, you could have mrs. Goth get knocked up. That way you could keep the psych meds and skip the whole pregnancy and childbirth thing.

[dehro]

with a child, sometimes this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF7b_MNEIAg)happens.

[Bouregard]

Kids?

They are extremly useful! Small fingers can make a very good carpet and the small frame can keep the costs in a coalmine to a minimum.
Keep in mind to not keep them quiet with alcohol, if you ever need to sell their kidneys you want them in pristine quality.

[SCROOGEMODE=OFF]


I definitly want children when I finaly settle down somewhere. I think it's important to have someone to whom you can pass on your experiences and knowledge and have someone who remembers you even if you're wormfood.

It would be a horrible thought for me to die without leaving something to the world that will carry on.
If that means I have to put up with some difficulties, then I'm willing to do it.

[Brother Oni]

I am constantly struck by the notion that I would do absolutely anything to ensure my son's health and happiness. I love him ferociously, and in a very different way than I love my wife (obviously), but with a similar intensity. He makes me feel stronger, more resourceful, and more important than I have ever felt before.


I agree with this.

You threaten me, I'll just ignore it or defend myself with reasonable force.
You threaten my wife, you're going to wake up in hospital.
You threaten my children, you'd better hope the cops get here, because you're not waking up at all.

[Juggling Goth]

Well, you could have mrs. Goth get knocked up. That way you could keep the psych meds and skip the whole pregnancy and childbirth thing.

She's on them too. Hers 'n' hers psych meds. We really are a nauseating couple.

[truemane]

I would add a note of caution to the idea that people seem to have that you need to be in the perfect place in life in order to have kids, though. Clearly, the more stable you are (emotionally and financially), the better, but only to a point.

Instead, I would say to new parents: kids are not a stabilizing influence. Add them to a given system and they create chaos and decrease stability. If you and your SO are having problems, you'll still be having those problems, and on half the sleep as before (if that). But all the same, you can have kids if you don't have a pile of money, or you work shift work, or you don't have the perfect marriage. You manage. That's what people do. All over the world. So long as you're committed, really, to the idea of parenting, everything else can be overcome.

I'm in my mid-30's and I have a 20 year old and a 10 year old and (both special needs, too, natch), while there were some significant challenges involved in doing it that way, I wouldn't change the experience of being a young-ish parent for any amount of financial stability.

For one thing, my older boy has a five-month old daughter of his own. I'm young enough that I'll almost certainly live to see her children. That's awesome.

[Melayl]

My wife and I have 3, from 9 to 3 years. They are, without exaggeration, the most important things in my life. It might sound trite, but you cannot truly understand love until you have seen your little one come into the world. You also do not truly understand fear until that moment when you realize just how precious to you they are. I'll add my echo to Brother Oni's post, too. Don't you dare mess with my kids, or hell will pale in compareson to what I'll do to you. Kids become so powerfully important, that there is literally nothing you won't do to keep them safe. And that can be a scary thing for you to realize.

My children do drive me completely nuts and frustrate the hell out of me, but I have never regretted having them. Will you? I can't say, but I don't think you will.

In the end, you (and the one you're with) are the only one who can decide if it will be worth it. I will tell you that it isn't a decision you need to make right now, though.

[FolcoTook]

First, let me applaud you for asking these questions before making the decision to have kids. I really wish more people would do that. The fact that you are taking the time to consider if you should have children tells me that you are at least thoughtful enough to have children.

Now, to get to the main question asked. We have 2 children (2.5 and 0.9 years old). You definitely do loose a lot of time you used to have to yourself, you have to demonstrate a lot of patience at times (our son is currently "exploring his boundaries" a.k.a. "terrible twos"), you have to learn to be consistent even when it's not the easy path, in the early stages you will loose a lot of sleep (first 2 months for our son, first 10 months for our daughter), and you have to come to terms that you are definitely not the most important person in your life anymore.

But I get to make my son laugh uncontrollably in tickle fights (really, the kid loves being tickled - when I stop he says "more tickle"), watch them both as they grow and learn, get my heart melted when my daughter gives me a little baby smile and listen to her as she learns to talk (we're in the "baa baa baa" stage). I get to look forward to raising two good human beings who will (hopefully) change their world for the better.

So I wouldn't trade any of the bad away because I would loose the good. But that's me. You really do need to believe that your life will completely change once you have kids and be OK with that. If you do decide to have children, one other practical tip I would add is to make sure you have someone lined up who can babysit for you once or twice a month. Getting out together without the kids becomes very important and special after you have them.

Anyway, that's my $.02 about it.

FT

[Suentis]

I'll throw my view in here. I have one with another on the way, but in my family we have family with kids and without. I completely agree that kids are not for everyone, and I believe that most people know if they are or aren't. Sure there are some people who things don't go as planned, and maybe it changes their minds.

My sister does not want children, and at 28 she still has plenty of time to change her mind. But when she talks about not wanting children she doesn't talk about the diaper changes, etc, because she knows kids grow out of that and it is a pretty bad excuse if you have a dog who constantly craps in the house and you have to spend 10 minutes cleaning it up (she does). My sister doesn't want children because she has other plans in life and does not see children as part of her path. I respect her for that.

My wife and I were married for 8 years when we had our first son. We knew before we got married that we wanted children, but we didn't rush into it. We talked several times and finally got to a point where we felt ready maturity wise, etc. We now have a second son on the way and couldn't be happier. My sister adores her nephew and can't wait to spoil her new one, but she is very much happier being able to visit and not have to take him home :D

So to wrap up, I think people know if they want children or not. I don't try to convince anyone that they should or shouldn't have one, but I also tell people that if you try to convince me I'll make your life a living hell. Like most things I just tend to respect peoples opinions whether or not I agree with them.

[Erloas]

I have a friend that told me he and his wife were never going to have children, that they didn't want any, and basically that with kids they couldn't live life the way they wanted to. They were married something like 10-15 years before they had their first kid, and they have 2 kids now and I know with absolute certainty that at this point they would never give them up. And given the choice to do it again they would have them again.

I have another friend who is 35 and said she never wants kids. She is very adamant about it and has been for years. She has said she would remove her reproductive organs herself with with a fork before having kids. But she does love (other people's) kids and she is good with them. I'm not really sure where her disdain for the idea of kids came from. But I think she would make a great mother. It might have to do with the fact that, AFAIK, she has never had any *good* long term relationships. But of course she has also said she doesn't want any sort of long term "serious" commitment from a relationship. Although right at the moment she seems to be very happy in her current relationship and the guy seems like a good guy (though I haven't meet him, seeing as how they both live ~2000 miles away from me), but they aren't living together and they've only been together for ~6 months.


And on the other side of things I have another friend that has 2 kids and had them fairly young (around 22-23). And I know its been hard on her at times and she stayed with their dad for at least a few years after she decided it wasn't going to work for the sake of the kids, but is now taking care of them on her own. I know parts of her life would be a lot easier without her kids but I also know she wouldn't even think about not having them around.

The woman I'm seeing now also has 2 kids, she waited a while to have them... I think she was 28-29. They also make her life more difficult but I also know how much she loves them and she wouldn't trade them for anything even when they are being a pain.

Personally I love kids, but the option to have any of my own has never been an option.

[dehro]

I think most of it is down to circumstances..
I have a friend who is 44, and a bit of a hippie... she's divorced (10 years of solid enough marriage, they're still friends).. she says she's never wanted kids..not when she was young, not when she was married, not now.
she's happy that way. it works for her.
I was in something of a relationship with a divorced woman with 2 kids. we both agreed not to take it too far and to part ways, because she wasn't gonna have any more kids..and one day I might have wanted one of my own and hold it against her.. kind of a dealbreaker.
I know at least a few women who are very carreer minded but are now really looking for the partner with whom to have a child.. a case of biological clock ticking louder and louder..
I suppose it takes all sorts..
as long as one is happy with his/her choice, I'm not going to tell them they're doing it wrong.

[Surrealistik]

I agree with this.

You threaten me, I'll just ignore it or defend myself with reasonable force.
You threaten my wife, you're going to wake up in hospital.
You threaten my children, you'd better hope the cops get here, because you're not waking up at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgmO32IdwuE

[Brother Oni]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgmO32IdwuE

I haven't seen that film actually (Taken?). Sounds like something I might enjoy. :smallbiggrin:

[messy1349]

wow... some really interesting, persuasive, and beautiful posts in this thread.

having said that, "hell no" is still my opinion. :smallbiggrin:

taking care of myself is tough enough. i don't have the time, energy, or money to take care of someone else, too.

[dehro]

I haven't seen that film actually (Taken?). Sounds like something I might enjoy. :smallbiggrin:

ex CIA's daughter goes to holiday in Paris and gets kidnapped. he hears it happen over the phone, goes to paris, kicks inordinate amounts of ass with the side-purpose of recovering his daughter before she's sold into sex trafficking.
it has some good scenes...the speech being one of them
/OT

[Alarra]

If you worry that kids will be trouble and raising them will take a lot of your time, money and effort, then don't have kids.


My reply would be: If you have to ask the question, the answer is "no, not for you." The answer might be completely different for someone else, however; not everyone is suited to be or desires to be a parent.

I disagree with these. Frankly, children will take a lot of your time, money and effort. If you worry about these things, then you will be better prepared to handle that drain on you if you actually get to the point where you have children. I worried a lot about the time, effort and money involved in child-rearing before I had my son. I remember having many conversations with Zeb and many long drawn out thinking sessions about all the things that would change in our lives and whether or not it would be worth it. I don't think the fact that someone gives those factors their due consideration means they shouldn't have kids or will be a bad parent. Certainly better than not worrying about it at all, thinking everything will be all rosy and perfect and then being blind-sided by just how hard parenting can be.

That being said, I do think that not everyone is meant to be a parent and respect people when they claim that they are not cut out for it.

For my part, I absolutely believe it's worth it. There are times when my son drives me absolutely crazy, like tonight, when I was trying to watch a tv show and couldn't because he was sitting on my stomach saying "Shhhhhhh! Quiet! Show!" over and over so loudly that I couldn't actually hear said show. But it's also true that sometimes a single adorable moment can wipe out an entire day of crazy.

[Trog]

For my part, I absolutely believe it's worth it. There are times when my son drives me absolutely crazy, like tonight, when I was trying to watch a tv show and couldn't because he was sitting on my stomach saying "Shhhhhhh! Quiet! Show!" over and over so loudly that I couldn't actually hear said show. But it's also true that sometimes a single adorable moment can wipe out an entire day of crazy.

Protip: Turn on closed captioning. :smallbiggrin: It help you "hear" the stuff you miss over the din and, for children's programming, gives the written words that accompany the spoken ones so it can be a good learning tool for the little one as well (provided they get the captioning right - there was often mistakes or variations). Me and the ex did this for years just so we could understand our programs while a raucous scene that could have been out of a Calvin and Hobbes strip played out in the living room during that half hour time slot. :smallamused:

[Morph Bark]

Are they worth it? Sure. Will they be trouble? Most definitely! But you know what? That matters not. For the big reason I'll let Bob Kelso tell you (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAeuChXAMKk).