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The Troubadour
2012-03-02, 01:21 PM
Hey there, guys! So, I've come up with some homebrews and I'd like to hear your opinion:


Barbarian:
1. Add Search and Spot to their list of class skills and increase the number of skill points to 6 + Int modifier.

2. Increase the number of Rages per day at 1st level to 3/day (it increases as usual from then on).

3. Bravery (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Barbarian gains a +1 bonus on Will saves against fear effects. These bonuses rise by +1 every three Barbarian levels thereafter (6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level). Bravery bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

4. Damage Reduction now starts at level 4 and it increases from there as usual (+1 for every additional 3 levels).

5. Mighty Rage is gained at level 10. At level 20, gain Legendary Rage (Ex): The Barbarian's bonuses to Strength and Constitution during his rage each increase to +16, and his morale bonus on Will saves increases to +6. The penalty to AC remains at -2.



Cleric:
1. Lose proficiency with heavy armor and heavy shields.
2. Increase the number of skill points to 4 + Int modifier.
3. Remove Divine Power and Righteous Might from their list of class spells.



Fighter:
1. Add Knowledge (Architecture and engineering), Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (Nobility and royalty), Listen, Profession (any), Search and Spot to their list of class skills and increase the number of skill points to 4 + Int modifier.

2. Bravery (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Fighter gains a +1 bonus on Will saves against fear effects. These bonuses rise by +1 every three Fighter levels thereafter (6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level). Bravery bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

3. Combat Tactic: Choose one of the following abilities at 5th level:

- Armiger: A Fighter reduces the armor check penalty of any armor he wears and any shield he wields by 2. This reduction rises by 1 every five Fighter levels thereafter (10th, 15th, 20th). In addition, the Fighter now no longer suffers an attack roll penalty when wielding a tower shield.

- Berserker: You double your Strength bonus to damage rolls when wielding a two-handed weapon, instead of adding 1 1/2.

- Tactician: When attacking a prone enemy, an enemy who is being flanked (either by you or one of your allies), or who has lost his Dex bonus to AC, or when making an attack of opportunity, you gain an insight bonus to that attack's damage roll equal to your Intelligence modifier.

- Tempest: You reduce the total penalty for fighting with two weapons by 2.

4. Superior Combat Tactic: Choose one of the following abilities at 10th level (you must have chosen the appropriate Combat Tactic at 5th level):

- Superior Armiger: You no longer suffer a movement speed penalty from wearing medium or heavy armor. In addition, when using Combat Expertise, you gain Damage Reduction equal to the number by which you reduce your Base Attack Bonus.

- Superior Berserker: When declaring a Power Attack with a two-handed weapon, increase Power Attack's damage multiplier by 1 (3x the number subtracted from attack rolls with "vanilla" Power Attack, 4x the number subtracted from attack rolls with Leap Attack Power Attack).
Note: This assumes "Complete Champion" isn't available and thus there's no easy way to gain Pounce.

- Superior Tactician: The bonus to damage rolls gained from Tactician now also applies to attack rolls. In addition, you gain a dodge bonus equal to your Intelligence modifier to your Armor Class and Reflexes saving throws against all attack, spells and abilities used by a prone or flanked enemy (either by you or one of your allies), or an enemy who has lost his Dex bonus to AC.

- Superior Tempest: When wielding two weapons at the same time, you can declare a full attack as a standard action. In addition, your shield bonus from Two-Weapon Defense is raised to +2 (+4 when you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action).

5. Combat Tactic Mastery: Choose one of the following abilities at 20th level (you must have chosen the appropriate Combat Tactics at 5th and 10th levels):

- Master Armiger: When using Combat Expertise, you gain a bonus to all saving throws equal to the number by which you reduce your Base Attack Bonus, and you also gain Spell Resistance equal to 20 + twice the number by which you reduce your Base Attack Bonus.

- Master Berserker: When you declare a Power Attack, you gain Damage Reduction equal to the number by which you reduce your Base Attack Bonus.

- Master Tactician: You gain an insight bonus equal to your Intelligence modifier on the opposed attack roll to disarm an opponent, on the feint roll, on the Strength check to trip or knock down your opponent, on the opposed Strength check to push back a defender when bull rushing, and on the attack and damage rolls against an object held or carried by another character. In addition, your enemy's size bonus (but not penalty) is halved against you for those rolls.

- Master Tempest: The penalty to your second attack with your off-hand weapon is reduced to 3, and the penalty to your third attack with your off-hand weapon is reduced to 6. In addition, your shield bonus from Two-Weapon Defense is raised to +3 (+6 when you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action).



Paladin:
1. Add Listen, Search and Spot to their list of class skills and increase the number of skill points to 4 + Int modifier.

2. Increase the number of times per day Smite Evil may be used to 3/day (it increases as usual from then on) and add the Paladin's Charisma modifier to the damage roll as well.

3. Replace Wisdom with Charisma as the Paladin's spellcasting ability.

4. At 6th level, a paladin can produce a remove blindness/deafness effect, as the spell, once per week. She can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after 6th (twice per week at 9th, three times at 12th, and so forth).

5. At 6th level, a paladin can produce a remove curse effect, as the spell, once per week. She can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after 6th (twice per week at 9th, three times at 12th, and so forth).

6. Unstoppable Champion (Su): At 10th level, the Paladin gains resistance 10 to acid, cold, electricity and fire, and a +4 bonus to saving throws against petrification, poison and sleep effects.

7. Aura of Divine Fervor (Su): At 20th level, the Paladin permanently gains an aura that he may turn on or off at will as a free action. Any hostile creature within a 20-foot radius of the Paladin must succeed on a Will save to resist its effects (DC 10 + 1/2 the Paladin's class level + Paladin's Charisma modifier). Those who fail take a -4 penalty on attacks, AC, and saves for 24 hours. A creature that has resisted the effect cannot be affected again by the same Paladinís aura for 24 hours.



Ranger:
1. Increase the number of skill points to 6 + Int modifier.

2. Add Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat at 1st level.

3. Favored Enemy: Add Intimidate and Search to the list of skills to which the Ranger gains a bonus against his favored enemies.
The bonuses against favored enemies all increase together at the same rate - +2 at 1st level, +4 at 5th level, +6 at 10th level, etc.
Animal, Magical Beasts and Vermin are all considered as being a single category: Animals & Magical Beasts.
Humanoid (aquatic), Humanoid (goblinoid), Humanoid (gnoll), Humanoid (orc) and Monstrous Humanoid are all considered as being a single category: Monstrous Humanoids.

4. Combat Style, Improved Combat Style, Combat Style Mastery: The Ranger gains the bonus feats from both combat styles at the same time.

5. Animal Companion: Increase the Ranger's effective Druid level to his class level.

6. Animal Skin (Su): At 10th level, the Ranger permanently gains blindsense, climb speed of 30 ft., low-light vision, scent and swim speed of 30 ft. In addition, his regular movement speed is permanently increased by 10 ft.

7. Nature's Skin (Su): At 10th level, the Ranger permanently gains darkvision 60 ft. and immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning, and is no longer subject to critical hits.



Sorcerer:
1. Add Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate and Move Silently to their list of class skills and increase the number of skill points to 4 + Int modifier.
2. Add Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at 1st level.
3. Add Endurance, Diehard, Great Fortitude, Spell Focus (any), Spell Penetration, Toughness, Weapon Focus (orbs), Weapon Focus (rays) and any Metamagic feat as bonus feats gained at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th levels.



So, what do you guys think?

Xechon
2012-03-03, 12:15 AM
I could post all of my ideas on each point here, but I see mostly negative. All your doing is increasing most power levels and dooming the cleric to a bloody death by malprotection. What is this supposed to balance against? Are you just trying to close the gap between regulars and spellcasters? Or do you just think these classes are underpowered and need a lift?

Grod_The_Giant
2012-03-03, 01:21 AM
Barbarian:
1. Add Search and Spot to their list of class skills and increase the number of skill points to 6 + Int modifier.

2. Increase the number of Rages per day at 1st level to 3/day (it increases as usual from then on).

3. Bravery (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Barbarian gains a +1 bonus on Will saves against fear effects. These bonuses rise by +1 every three Barbarian levels thereafter (6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level). Bravery bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

4. Damage Reduction now starts at level 4 and it increases from there as usual (+1 for every additional 3 levels).

5. Mighty Rage is gained at level 10. At level 20, gain Legendary Rage (Ex): The Barbarian's bonuses to Strength and Constitution during his rage each increase to +16, and his morale bonus on Will saves increases to +6. The penalty to AC remains at -2.
1. Spot should be on every class list in my opinion. I'm not sure about 6+Int skills... I don't really see Barbarian as any sort of skillmonkey.
2. Not a bad idea, as it frees low-level players from having to burn a feat on Extra Rage.
3. Not sure if this is necessary, as they already get a bonus to Will saves when raging.
4. Ok.
5. Not bad.


Cleric:
1. Lose proficiency with heavy armor and heavy shields.
2. Increase the number of skill points to 4 + Int modifier.
3. Remove Divine Power and Righteous Might from their list of class spells.
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Eh... spell-by-spell is rarely a practical nerf. Better and easier to just ban Divine Metamagic.


Fighter:
1. Add Knowledge (Architecture and engineering), Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (Nobility and royalty), Listen, Profession (any), Search and Spot to their list of class skills and increase the number of skill points to 4 + Int modifier.

2. Bravery (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Fighter gains a +1 bonus on Will saves against fear effects. These bonuses rise by +1 every three Fighter levels thereafter (6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level). Bravery bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

3. Combat Tactic: Choose one of the following abilities at 5th level:

- Armiger: A Fighter reduces the armor check penalty of any armor he wears and any shield he wields by 2. This reduction rises by 1 every five Fighter levels thereafter (10th, 15th, 20th). In addition, the Fighter now no longer suffers an attack roll penalty when wielding a tower shield.

- Berserker: You double your Strength bonus to damage rolls when wielding a two-handed weapon, instead of adding 1 1/2.

- Tactician: When attacking a prone enemy, an enemy who is being flanked (either by you or one of your allies), or who has lost his Dex bonus to AC, or when making an attack of opportunity, you gain an insight bonus to that attack's damage roll equal to your Intelligence modifier.

- Tempest: You reduce the total penalty for fighting with two weapons by 2.

4. Superior Combat Tactic: Choose one of the following abilities at 10th level (you must have chosen the appropriate Combat Tactic at 5th level):

- Superior Armiger: You no longer suffer a movement speed penalty from wearing medium or heavy armor. In addition, when using Combat Expertise, you gain Damage Reduction equal to the number by which you reduce your Base Attack Bonus.

- Superior Berserker: When declaring a Power Attack with a two-handed weapon, increase Power Attack's damage multiplier by 1 (3x the number subtracted from attack rolls with "vanilla" Power Attack, 4x the number subtracted from attack rolls with Leap Attack Power Attack).
Note: This assumes "Complete Champion" isn't available and thus there's no easy way to gain Pounce.

- Superior Tactician: The bonus to damage rolls gained from Tactician now also applies to attack rolls. In addition, you gain a dodge bonus equal to your Intelligence modifier to your Armor Class and Reflexes saving throws against all attack, spells and abilities used by a prone or flanked enemy (either by you or one of your allies), or an enemy who has lost his Dex bonus to AC.

- Superior Tempest: When wielding two weapons at the same time, you can declare a full attack as a standard action. In addition, your shield bonus from Two-Weapon Defense is raised to +2 (+4 when you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action).

5. Combat Tactic Mastery: Choose one of the following abilities at 20th level (you must have chosen the appropriate Combat Tactics at 5th and 10th levels):

- Master Armiger: When using Combat Expertise, you gain a bonus to all saving throws equal to the number by which you reduce your Base Attack Bonus, and you also gain Spell Resistance equal to 20 + twice the number by which you reduce your Base Attack Bonus.

- Master Berserker: When you declare a Power Attack, you gain Damage Reduction equal to the number by which you reduce your Base Attack Bonus.

- Master Tactician: You gain an insight bonus equal to your Intelligence modifier on the opposed attack roll to disarm an opponent, on the feint roll, on the Strength check to trip or knock down your opponent, on the opposed Strength check to push back a defender when bull rushing, and on the attack and damage rolls against an object held or carried by another character. In addition, your enemy's size bonus (but not penalty) is halved against you for those rolls.

- Master Tempest: The penalty to your second attack with your off-hand weapon is reduced to 3, and the penalty to your third attack with your off-hand weapon is reduced to 6. In addition, your shield bonus from Two-Weapon Defense is raised to +3 (+6 when you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action).

1. MORE SKILLS PLEASE. Why does the barbarian get more skills than the civilized fighter? A generic fighter class should have the skills to support all types of fighting-- for example, Tumble for light fighters.
2. Too weak. Paladin gets total fear immunity at level 3, and you get a +1 to saves?
3. Alright.
4. The biggest danger with Power Attack is the feat (Heedless Charge?) that lets you take a penalty to AC instead of attack. Iterative attacks are less of a problem if they're all taking a big penalty.
5. The SR from Master Armiger is might be a bit high-- it would not be unreasonable to gets SR 40. On the other hand... straight melee at level 20 kind of needs it... hmm.
On the whole, a big improvement. Still not an amazing class, but a great improvement.


Paladin:
1. Add Listen, Search and Spot to their list of class skills and increase the number of skill points to 4 + Int modifier.

2. Increase the number of times per day Smite Evil may be used to 3/day (it increases as usual from then on) and add the Paladin's Charisma modifier to the damage roll as well.

3. Replace Wisdom with Charisma as the Paladin's spellcasting ability.

4. At 6th level, a paladin can produce a remove blindness/deafness effect, as the spell, once per week. She can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after 6th (twice per week at 9th, three times at 12th, and so forth).

5. At 6th level, a paladin can produce a remove curse effect, as the spell, once per week. She can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after 6th (twice per week at 9th, three times at 12th, and so forth).

6. Unstoppable Champion (Su): At 10th level, the Paladin gains resistance 10 to acid, cold, electricity and fire, and a +4 bonus to saving throws against petrification, poison and sleep effects.

7. Aura of Divine Fervor (Su): At 20th level, the Paladin permanently gains an aura that he may turn on or off at will as a free action. Any hostile creature within a 20-foot radius of the Paladin must succeed on a Will save to resist its effects (DC 10 + 1/2 the Paladin's class level + Paladin's Charisma modifier). Those who fail take a -4 penalty on attacks, AC, and saves for 24 hours. A creature that has resisted the effect cannot be affected again by the same Paladinís aura for 24 hours.
1. Good.
2. Smite Evil is still crappy. It's a fairly minor damage boost compared even to an unoptomized evoker dealing d6/level, much less the total boost from a raging barbarian. I'd make it per encounter instead of per day, or put it on a brief cooldown.
3. FOR THE LOVE OF PELOR YES
4. X/Week is kind of hard to keep track of. I'd allow it daily. Or just put the spell on the class list.
5. See previous point. Appropriate ability, though.
6. Not bad.
7. Alright.
Again, not bad, but still not that powerful a class, and there's still not a whole lot of incentive to keep playing after level 5-6.



Ranger:
1. Increase the number of skill points to 6 + Int modifier.

2. Add Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat at 1st level.

3. Favored Enemy: Add Intimidate and Search to the list of skills to which the Ranger gains a bonus against his favored enemies.
The bonuses against favored enemies all increase together at the same rate - +2 at 1st level, +4 at 5th level, +6 at 10th level, etc.
Animal, Magical Beasts and Vermin are all considered as being a single category: Animals & Magical Beasts.
Humanoid (aquatic), Humanoid (goblinoid), Humanoid (gnoll), Humanoid (orc) and Monstrous Humanoid are all considered as being a single category: Monstrous Humanoids.

4. Combat Style, Improved Combat Style, Combat Style Mastery: The Ranger gains the bonus feats from both combat styles at the same time.

5. Animal Companion: Increase the Ranger's effective Druid level to his class level.

6. Animal Skin (Su): At 10th level, the Ranger permanently gains blindsense, climb speed of 30 ft., low-light vision, scent and swim speed of 30 ft. In addition, his regular movement speed is permanently increased by 10 ft.

7. Nature's Skin (Su): At 10th level, the Ranger permanently gains darkvision 60 ft. and immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning, and is no longer subject to critical hits.
1. They already have 6/level
2. Good.
3. Good.
4. Eh... I'd rather boost the abilities separately than slap them together. It's not a bad move balance-wise, though.
5. Good.
6. Blindsense to what distance? Otherwise, an awful lot of abilities at once, but the movement bonuses are nice.
7. Darkvision was obsolete long ago. I'm not sure where the rest of the abilities are coming from... elemental traits? This ability doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


Sorcerer:
1. Add Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate and Move Silently to their list of class skills and increase the number of skill points to 4 + Int modifier.
2. Add Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at 1st level.
3. Add Endurance, Diehard, Great Fortitude, Spell Focus (any), Spell Penetration, Toughness, Weapon Focus (orbs), Weapon Focus (rays) and any Metamagic feat as bonus feats gained at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th levels.
1. Good.
2. Good.
3. Those are...oddly specific feats. How about a free heritage feat at 1st, 5th, 10th, and 20th levels?


I could post all of my ideas on each point here, but I see mostly negative. All your doing is increasing most power levels and dooming the cleric to a bloody death by malprotection. What is this supposed to balance against? Are you just trying to close the gap between regulars and spellcasters? Or do you just think these classes are underpowered and need a lift?
Little (and by little, I mean "commonly") known fact: the core books in general have terrible balance. To be fair, WotC were still learning their own system, but the PHB has some of the strongest classes (Cleric, Druid, Wizard) side-by-side with some of the weakest (Fighter, Monk, Paladin) in the game, along with many of the worst feats and most broken spells (Polymorph? Gate?).
These changes are hardly earth-shattering. They're fairly cosmetic face-lifts compared to what the classes need (coughFightercough), but for the most part, they're pretty solid. More skill points mean more customization and more out-of-combat utility. More class features means less incentive to go browsing for PrCs. It's solid work.

(oh, and PS: dropping the cleric down to medium armor is hardly "dooming him to bloody death." Plenty of melee classes have to get by with light armor and a d8 HD (monk? ranger?), and the cleric gets spells on top of that.)

The Troubadour
2012-03-03, 11:13 AM
1. Spot should be on every class list in my opinion. I'm not sure about 6+Int skills... I don't really see Barbarian as any sort of skillmonkey.

Well, what I wanted was to increase some classes' out-of-combat versatility by increasing their list of class skills, and so I just increased the classes' base number of skills. And the Barbarian has even less of an incentive to increase Int than the Fighter.


3. Not sure if this is necessary, as they already get a bonus to Will saves when raging.

Yeah, but only when they're raging. I think it's strange - from a narrative viewpoint - that a Barbarian usually is just as "cowardly" as, say, a Rogue when he's not deep in frenzy.


3. Eh... spell-by-spell is rarely a practical nerf. Better and easier to just ban Divine Metamagic.

Banning Divine Metamagic would solve some of the CoDzilla issues, but I dislike Divine Power and Righteous Might - especially Divine Power - because, in theory, they let a Cleric replace a Fighter for the cost of a single standard/swift (at higher levels) action.

As a matter of fact (and I believe I'm not the first one to have this idea), I'm thinking of splitting the Cleric and the Druid in two classes each: a "Battle Cleric", a "Monk", a shapeshifter/animal companion Druid and a proper, spellcasting Druid.



1. MORE SKILLS PLEASE. Why does the barbarian get more skills than the civilized fighter? A generic fighter class should have the skills to support all types of fighting-- for example, Tumble for light fighters.

Oh, yes, good catch! Balance and Survival would also be good fits, I think.


2. Too weak. Paladin gets total fear immunity at level 3, and you get a +1 to saves?

Hmmm... Perhaps it could start out as +2? Or better yet, it could start at +2 and at 1st level?


4. The biggest danger with Power Attack is the feat (Heedless Charge?) that lets you take a penalty to AC instead of attack. Iterative attacks are less of a problem if they're all taking a big penalty.

I think it's Shock Trooper. And really, I don't have a problem with the inherent concept of a character dealing a single, very strong attack at the cost of his defensive abilities; I think it only gets too powerful if he can deal several very strong attacks per round. :-)


On the whole, a big improvement. Still not an amazing class, but a great improvement.

Thanks! :-) What do you think is missing for it to be amazing (or close to it)? I also considered giving for free the Weapon Focus/Specialization/Mastery line of feats.


2. Smite Evil is still crappy. It's a fairly minor damage boost compared even to an unoptomized evoker dealing d6/level, much less the total boost from a raging barbarian. I'd make it per encounter instead of per day, or put it on a brief cooldown.

Hmm... Perhaps the bonuses could apply for a number of rounds - say, 3 + class level - instead of only for a single attack? Though I do like the idea of changing it to a per encounter basis, as well.


4. X/Week is kind of hard to keep track of. I'd allow it daily. Or just put the spell on the class list.

Hmmm... What if I changed it to daily, but then remove blindness/deafness, remove curse and remove disease all drew from the same "pool" of uses?


Again, not bad, but still not that powerful a class, and there's still not a whole lot of incentive to keep playing after level 5-6.

Hmmm. What do you suppose I could add? I also thought of increasing the Paladin's (and the Ranger's, come to think of it) caster level to full, much like the Bard.



1. They already have 6/level

Oh, right. I think I put that there because I considered increasing them to 8/level. What do you think? Too much?


6. Blindsense to what distance? Otherwise, an awful lot of abilities at once, but the movement bonuses are nice.

Oh, right, should be 30 ft., I think. I suppose I could also add darkvision to this ability?


7. Darkvision was obsolete long ago. I'm not sure where the rest of the abilities are coming from... elemental traits? This ability doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Well, the idea is that the Ranger is sort of "Nature's holy warrior", right? So my concept is that he would start gaining supernatural traits to reflect that. First, animal traits - hence the additional types of movements and the animal senses. Then, he would gain elemental traits.
To be honest, though, I'm not too sure about those specific abilities either - they feel strange, to me. I just didn't know what else to add. :-)



3. Those are...oddly specific feats. How about a free heritage feat at 1st, 5th, 10th, and 20th levels?

Ah, right, I had forgotten about those feats! Where did they appear, again?
And well, my original proposed feats were meant to reflect that "sorcery in the blood" not only makes you a strong spellcaster, but also hard to kill in general.

The Troubadour
2012-03-03, 11:14 AM
All your doing is increasing most power levels and dooming the cleric to a bloody death by malprotection.

Wow! "Bloody death by malprotection"? I don't think the Cleric is even close to being that fragile, myself. :-)


What is this supposed to balance against? Are you just trying to close the gap between regulars and spellcasters? Or do you just think these classes are underpowered and need a lift?

Both, really. :-)

Xechon
2012-03-03, 11:50 AM
I must play differently than you. Clerics are always the first targeted, and rely on the armor to keep them alive while keeping others alive. This isn't my type of fix, so I think I'll drop out, even though I haven't really contributed anything.

Grod_The_Giant
2012-03-03, 12:45 PM
Well, what I wanted was to increase some classes' out-of-combat versatility by increasing their list of class skills, and so I just increased the classes' base number of skills. And the Barbarian has even less of an incentive to increase Int than the Fighter.
True. Still doesn't feel quite right to me, but I suppose it works. <shrug>


Yeah, but only when they're raging. I think it's strange - from a narrative viewpoint - that a Barbarian usually is just as "cowardly" as, say, a Rogue when he's not deep in frenzy.
Yeah, OK, good point.


Banning Divine Metamagic would solve some of the CoDzilla issues, but I dislike Divine Power and Righteous Might - especially Divine Power - because, in theory, they let a Cleric replace a Fighter for the cost of a single standard/swift (at higher levels) action.
Yeah, OK. Fair point.


As a matter of fact (and I believe I'm not the first one to have this idea), I'm thinking of splitting the Cleric and the Druid in two classes each: a "Battle Cleric", a "Monk", a shapeshifter/animal companion Druid and a proper, spellcasting Druid.
Not a bad idea. I did something on similar lines with the cleric/favored soul.


Oh, yes, good catch! Balance and Survival would also be good fits, I think.
True.


Hmmm... Perhaps it could start out as +2? Or better yet, it could start at +2 and at 1st level?
Start at +2 at 1st level, scale by +2s up to, say, +6, and then give immunity at 8th?


I think it's Shock Trooper. And really, I don't have a problem with the inherent concept of a character dealing a single, very strong attack at the cost of his defensive abilities; I think it only gets too powerful if he can deal several very strong attacks per round. :-)
Fair enough.


Thanks! :-) What do you think is missing for it to be amazing (or close to it)? I also considered giving for free the Weapon Focus/Specialization/Mastery line of feats.
Not a bad idea. As for making it amazing/tier 3... well... I've had some thoughts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12460617&postcount=2)...


Hmm... Perhaps the bonuses could apply for a number of rounds - say, 3 + class level - instead of only for a single attack? Though I do like the idea of changing it to a per encounter basis, as well.
That would work. Or just crank up the damage; my fix set it at 3/level, with a recharge countdown. (it's about equal to +1d6/level)


Hmmm... What if I changed it to daily, but then remove blindness/deafness, remove curse and remove disease all drew from the same "pool" of uses?
That sounds good.


Hmmm. What do you suppose I could add? I also thought of increasing the Paladin's (and the Ranger's, come to think of it) caster level to full, much like the Bard.
A generally excellent idea. At the very least, CL-3. To make it excellent... well, again, I've put some thought into it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12150015#post12150015).


Oh, right. I think I put that there because I considered increasing them to 8/level. What do you think? Too much?
Eh, ranger's a bit of a skillmonkey already. It's ok by me.


Oh, right, should be 30 ft., I think. I suppose I could also add darkvision to this ability?
How about low-light (a more animalistic ability) at an earlier level?


Well, the idea is that the Ranger is sort of "Nature's holy warrior", right? So my concept is that he would start gaining supernatural traits to reflect that. First, animal traits - hence the additional types of movements and the animal senses. Then, he would gain elemental traits.
To be honest, though, I'm not too sure about those specific abilities either - they feel strange, to me. I just didn't know what else to add. :-)
Fair enough. Might I suggest something along the lines of my druid revision's capstone?


Avatar of the Wild: By 20th level, a druid has transcend humanity to become one with the natural world. She gains the elemental type, DR 10/ó, resistance 20 to all energy types, and a +2 perfection bonus to all physical abilities. In addition, if she is ever killed, her body is reformed in the nearest forest, as if affected by a reincarnate spell, 1d4 days later. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230514)


Ah, right, I had forgotten about those feats! Where did they appear, again?
And well, my original proposed feats were meant to reflect that "sorcery in the blood" not only makes you a strong spellcaster, but also hard to kill in general.
The draconic heritage line first appeared in Complete Arcane, I think, and there are a few more in Dragon Magic. The Player's Handbook 2 has celestial and infernal, and Complete Mage has fey.
Also, I see what you were trying to do, but the feats you provided (Endurance? Toughness?) are generally pretty weak. I can't imagine anyone not picking a metamagic or spell focus feat from the list provided.

The Troubadour
2012-03-04, 08:48 PM
Start at +2 at 1st level, scale by +2s up to, say, +6, and then give immunity at 8th?

I dislike immunity on principle. I don't think even the Paladin should be immune to fear. :-)


Not a bad idea. As for making it amazing/tier 3... well... I've had some thoughts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12460617&postcount=2)...

Wow! That's... Quite a bit more complex than I'd like it to be, to be frank.
On the other hand... Heck, I've got the strongest feeling you're right, and that my revisions are basically meaningless - that I'd have to actually rebuild most classes from the ground up so I'd be satisfied with them. I mean, heck, I take a look at many high-level feats/abilities, and I think, "Damn, I should have been able to get this something like 5-10 levels earlier!"

Wyntonian
2012-03-04, 09:11 PM
Y'know I really like this. Yes, I generally encourage use of fully ground-up homebrew fixes, when they'e well done, anyway, but these are some good low-intervention fixes that I could really see someone using.

The Troubadour
2012-03-06, 10:31 AM
Y'know I really like this. Yes, I generally encourage use of fully ground-up homebrew fixes, when they'e well done, anyway, but these are some good low-intervention fixes that I could really see someone using.

Thanks a lot! :-D I'll see if I can find the time to post some more - I have some ideas for the other classes as well.