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Madara
2012-03-03, 11:21 PM
http://i55.tinypic.com/1ep1es.jpg
An Intima who mimics the king of undeath


"It was then I came to realize the truth. From birth I had been deceived, I am two, we are one."-- Hortus, Intima of the Two Souls

All living beings have souls. This is the bases of truth. Some spells contact the soul itself, or swap the soul as in the case of magic jar. An important principle to note, is that normally a Soul is attached to the body and treated as one. However, there are those who realize that a Soul is an individual of its own. These people are called the Intima. They master the art of separating their Soul from their Body, allowing them to change its shape, and replace parts of it.

Races: Humans are the least likely to become Intima, as they have such short lives that they care not about the Soul. Long lived races such as Gnomes and Elves are more likely to become Intima. Halflings make decent Intima, but some lack the patience to focus on their Soul.

Adventuring: Intimas adventure for knowledge. While they don't have to seek out spells like wizards, the field of Intimas is new. They are looking at other creature's Souls and trying to develop new grafts. Some Intimas adventure for the sake of sanity, hoping that staying busy will keep them from losing their Identity.


The Intima, Soul Shaper
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Graft Pool

1st|+1|+2|+0|+1|Soul Graft:Arms|
1

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+1|Bonus Feat|
2

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+2|Resonance of Souls|
5

4th|+4|+4|+1|+2|Soul detection|
7

5th|+5|+4|+1|+3|Weapon bond, Soul Graft:Core|
8

6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+3|Bonus Feat|
10

7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+3|Graft Swap|
12

8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+4||
13

9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+4|Soul Graft: Head|
17

10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+5|Weapon bond, Bonus Feat|
20

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+5|Dual Graft|
23

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+6|Soul Graft: Legs|
23

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+6||
27

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+6|Bonus Feat|
27

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+7|Weapon bond|
30

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+7||
33

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+8||
35

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+8|Graft Release, Bonus Feat|
37

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+8||
37

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+9|Weapon bond|
40

[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d10

Class Skills: Climb(Str),Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Proficiencies: An Intima is proficient with All Simple and Martial Weapons.

They are proficient with All Light and Medium Armor, and all Shields Except Tower Shields.

Soul Graft: The Intima separates its soul from its body in terms of reference. By doing so, he can learn to replace certain parts of the Soul with parts that mimic other living beings. At certain Levels, the Intima unlocks a new part of the Soul it can Graft. It can only have one graft per section because changing the Soul can damage the body. At any time, an Intima cannot have Grafts worth more than indicated at its level under Graft Points. At the beginning of each day, an Intima selects their grafts for that day. See the Graft Section below for specific grafts.

Graft Pool: These points represent the amount of stress the Intima can put on their soul my changing its shape or replacing its parts. The Intima gains bonus points to its Graft pool equal to its Wisdom bonus, minimum 0.

Resonance of Souls: At third level, the Intima's Soul becomes strong enough to protect the body. They gain a resistance bonus equal to their Wis bonus to saving throws.

Bonus Feats: The Intima gains combat skills as well as the ability to focus its soul. At the indicated levels, the Intima can choose a Bonus Feat from the Fighter bonus feats or a [Graft] feat from below. They must meet the Prerequisites for the Feat.

Soul Detection: At 4th level, an Intima gains the ability to notice other souls. They can detect any living or intelligent undead creature within a distance of 40ft. This distance increases by 10ft. every two levels thereafter. This ability is a spell-like ability. The Intima can recognize these Soul-Signatures by making a Heal check equal to 10+1/2HD of the detected creature, the Intima can determine one of the following each round of concentration.
1st round: Intelligence of the Creature and creature type.
2nd round: If the Creature is capable of using magic effects, and if those are arcane or divine.
3rd round: Relative power of the creature: Weak Soul 1-5HD, Confident Soul 6-10HD, Strong Soul 11-15HD, Flawless Soul 16-20HD.

Weapon bond: At 5th level, the Intima chooses a specific type of weapon it is proficient with. This weapon may not be a range weapon. When wielding this weapon, the Intima can apply any type of graft to the weapon in addition to their normal allotment. For example, Jine grafts an Arm Graft to his Spear, and gains its power in addition to the other grafts he has normally. The Intima can change the weapon selected at any new level. At 10th, 15th, and 20th level, the Intima gains a new ability when using their Weapon.
10th: Soul Force; all damage done by the weapon is treated as force damage.
15th: Attack the Soul; the Intima add their Wis modifier to their attacks.
20th: Seperate Soul; At this level, the Intima's Weapon grants its wielder the ability to teleport 50ft. As an immediate action 5/day. If they lose their weapon for some reason, they can call it to them at will. Finally, all enemies hit by the Weapon take 1d4 Wis damage if hit by the weapon.

Graft Swap: Normally, an Intima selects their grafts once per day. However, at 7th level they can now change their graft selection twice per day, this change in grafts takes 10 minutes per section of grafts.

Dual Graft: At 11th level, the Intima can have two Grafts affecting the same slot at once. They are so confident in their existence that they can mold and shape their Soul with almost no limitation.

Graft Release: At 18th level, the Intima can release their soul's grafts to damage others. Especially, they place their Grafts onto someone else. This does force damage equal to twice the value in graft points of the grafts lost. There is no saving throw nor spell resistance against this ability. Using this ability costs a standard action, and the Intima no longer has any grafts in use until they use Graft Swap or they select their grafts the next day.

Notes:This class is meant to be around Warlock/Binder in terms of power. At first it was going to be based on the monk, with themes of concentration and patience..then it became what it is. :smallsmile:
As for the grafts. At first, they are like Warlock's invocations, except you can switch once each weekonce per day, then then move closer to the binder in that you can change more often. I'm going to try to have as many graft options as I can, because versatility=power. This class should be able to compete with tier 3 spellcasters, as a melee combatant.

Madara
2012-03-03, 11:23 PM
Reserved For Grafts
Most of the Grafts will be self-buffs, either granting attacks or increasing abilities, or adding new ones. They will be based of of monsters, animals, and other races. The goal is to have grafts valued up to 10, and you can use more of your graft pool to gain more from the same graft(Like Psionics), allowing them to scale.

Arms:

Flash
Type:Arms
Cost: 1
An Intima with this graft can have their arms give off light like the Light spell, or a number of times per day equal to Wis bonus, make a flash at one enemy who must succeed at a Reflex save equal to 10+Wis or be blinded for 2 rounds. At 3 points, this save increases to 12+Wis and 4 rounds. At 6, it increases to 14+Wis and 7 rounds.

Swift
Type:Arms
Cost:1
This graft only works when wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon. The Intima with this graft can use the weapon to do one dice size larger worth of damage, so 1d6 becomes 1d8. At 3 points, the Intima's base speed increases by 10ft. when wearing light or no armor. At 5 points, the weapon does two dice sizes larger worth of damage. At 7 points, the intima gains a +3 Insight bonus to AC when wielding the weapon.

Flailing
Type:Arms
Cost:1
The Intima with this Graft gains Flurry of Blows like a Monk. They can use any natural weapons they have, or if they have improved unarmed strike, their fists.

Brutish
Type: Arms
Cost:1

Like the Hobgoblin, the Intima who has this graft becomes physically stronger and gains a +2 bonus to strength. At four points, this increases to a +4 bonus. At 8 points, they gain rock throwing like a giant. They can throw Rocks that deal up to 2d6 damage with a range increment of 100ft.

Nimble
Type:Arms
Cost:2
The intima gains the ability to shape their arms like a kobold, giving them the ability to use Pick Lock, Search and Slight of Hand. They gain a bonus equal to 2+ extra points spent on this graft for these skills. At 6 points, they gain trapfinding and poison use. At 8 points, they gain a Sneak Attack of 2d6 like a rogue.

Spider
Type: Arms
Cost: 2
Like the Spider, the Intima with this graft uses their Soul Arms to grab onto the surfaces and can walk on walls and ceilings in an effect similar to the Spider Climb Spell. At 4 points the speed increases to Base +10ft. and at 6 points, the Intima can throw webs which act like the Web Spell and have a saving throw equal to 13+Wis.

Tentacle
Type: Arms
Cost: 4
The Intima who gains this grafts can lash out with their soul. They can make a touch attack with these tentacles, and if the succeed they automatically start a grapple. At 6 points, these tentacles gain a reach of 10ft. and do threaten all squares in reach. At 8 points there are two sets of tentacles and the Intima with the graft can grapple two creatures at once. These tentacles are separate from the arms, and count as additional limbs and natural weapons.

Parasitic
Type:Arms
Cost: 4
This graft is very unusual. The Intima that uses it releases their Soul Arms onto their enemy. They can only use this on one enemy at a time. The Soul Arms impede the movements of the victim, who as a result has a -2 penalty to Attack and must make a concentration check (DC15) to cast spells with somatic components. At 6 points, they must make a Fortitude Save every two rounds or lose 1d4 hp, which the Intima gain as temporary HP that last for 1 hour.


Telekinetic
Type:Arms
Cost: 4
When an Intima gains this graft, they can use their Soul Arms to act from a distance. This allows them to use mage hand, but with a weight limit of 10 lb./ Wis. They can also use their Soul Arms to block attacks, even magic missiles, it grants a +4 Deflection Bonus to AC. At 6 points this increases to +6 and it can be granted to an ally adjacent to you instead, you choose the receiver of the bonus on your turn. At 8 points, the Intima can attempt to paralyze a foe by squeezing them with their Soul Arms. This effect works like the Hold Person Spell, except the DC is 13+Wis. They can use this ability 3 times per day.

Tunneling
Type:Arms
Cost: 6
This graft grants the ability to tunnel through earth like a Bullette. The Intima with this graft gains a burrow speed of 20ft. and can choose to leave a tunnel. At 8 points, this increases to 40ft.


Drain
Type:Arms
Cost:8

Whenever the Intima with this graft succeeds on damaging their foe, the enemy must make a Fortitude save DC: 12+Wis or take 1d4 con damage. At 10 points, for every point of con drained, the Intima gains 3 temporary hit points.

Rust
Type:Arms
Cost:10

The Intima who gains this graft can make metal corrode with a touch. By making a touch attack, they can touch their enemies armor or weapon. That object must make a Reflex Save equal to 13+Wis. The Intima can also use this on stationary objects of metal, which do not get a saving throw.

Core:

Ooze
Type:Core
Cost: 4
The Intima that adds this graft changes their soul into a liquid-type material that reforms when damaged. They take half damage from Piercing and slashing attacks. At 6 points they gain fast healing 2 when below 1/2 hit points. At 8 points this becomes fast healing 4.

Scaled
Type:Core
Cost: 4
Like a dragon, the Intima with this graft gains scales and DR 2/-. At 6 points, they gain a Breath Weapon in a 15ft. cone that does 1d6 Fire Damage, unless those inside succeed at a Reflex save of 12+Wis. At 8 points, the Intima can grow one size category(This does stack with all other size effects) and shrink back to normal as move actions.

Decayed
Type: Core
Cost: 4
An Intima who gains this graft starts to resemble the undead. As such, they are not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain, immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. At 6 points, they also do not breathe, eat, or sleep. At 8 points, they are healed by negative energy as well as positive energy.

Aqua
Type:Core
Cost:4
While many creatures have difficulty underwater, the Intima who gains this graft becomes more capable in Aquatic environments. They gain the ability to breath underwater, and a swim speed of 60ft. At 6 points, the water in the air solidifies and starts to swirl around the Intima, granting a +4 Deflection bonus to AC. At 8 points, the bonus increases to +6.

Lighthearted
Type:Core
Cost: 5
The Fey are a tricky type, and the Intima who mimics their Soul is no different. This graft grants a 40% miss Chance, as their Soul blurs their image. They can also change their Image like the Disguise Self spell, and Spell Resistance equal to 15+Wis.

Winged
Type:Core
Cost: 5
This Intima's soul sprouts wings the same color as their Soul. These Wings grant them Flight at 40ft. Good Maneuverability. This increases to 50ft. at 7 points, and Perfect Maneuverability at 8 points.

Infernal(Corrupting)
Type:Core
Cost:5
Like the most evil of Demons, the Intima's Soul becomes Dark and Powerful. This power can even start to corrupt the Intima. The graft grants +1d6 negative energy damage to all melee attacks by the Intima. At 7 points, this Graft grants Wis bonus to AC and the Intima with this graft must make a Will save when using the graft's power or have evil tendencies, such as killing an opponent before trying to save a friend, they also gain the benefits of the Diehard feat. At 10 points, they gain the Fear ability like a Devil:
A creature hit by an Intima must succeed on a DC 16+Wis Will save or be affected as though by fear (caster level 9th).
Whether or not the save is successful, that creature cannot be affected by that same fear ability for 24 hours. The save DC is Wis-based.
They also become more corrupted, and must make a Will save whenever they down an opponent or spend the next round attacking the foe's body.

Bestial
Type: Core
Cost:6
An Intima who gains this graft becomes more animal-like. They become stronger, gaining +2 Con. However, this is not the only effect the graft has. The Intima grows one size category, and gains a slam attack that does 1d8+Str damage. They also gain the Scent ability. At 8 points, the Intima who grapples an opponent can Rend, doing 2d6+9 points of damage and ending the grapple.

Plant
Type:Core
Cost:6
The Intima who gains this graft starts to grow vines out of their chest. They gain a +10 bonus to Hide checks in a forest environment. At 8 points they also start to have a defense mechanism, they can spit poison(Contact) as a ranged touch attack (40') with a fortitude DC of 14+Wis. This poison does 1d6 str damage and nauseates the victim for 1d6 rounds.

Head:

Crown
Type:Head
Cost: 4
Becoming more well received, people treat the Intima with this graft with more respect. They gain a +2 bonus to Wisdom. At 6 points, they gain 3 1st level followers whenever they keep this graft on for at least 3 days straight. At 8 Points, all enemies take a -3 penalty to attack the Intima(This is a mind-affecting effect). At 10 points, they have 6 total followers(after 3 days), 3 1st level, 2 3rd level and 1 4th level.

Mindcrush
Type:Head
Cost: 4
Like the Mindflayer, an Intima with this graft becomes more sinister. They can spend a full round action to "Mindcrush" an opponent, doing 1d4 Int Damage. This attack has a range of 120' and a Will Save of 14+Wis. At 6 points, this becomes 1d4+2 Int damage, and at 8 points, the save is 16+Wis.

Aberrant Eye
Type:Head
Cost: 4
The Intima with this graft can see invisible creatures, and a +2 Bonus on saves against Illusions. At 6 points, they can no longer be flanked and gain a +2 Dodge bonus to AC because they can observe motions much faster. At 8 points, they can use an Anti-Magic Ray 1/day. It is a 15ft. ray that negates all magic in it for 1d6 rounds.

Shielded
Type:Head
Cost:5
While it is said only the truly paranoid Intima take this graft, all Intimas can benefit from the granted abilities. An Intima with this graft gains a +2 Bonus on will saves and is immune to Mind-Influencing Affects. At 7 points, they cannot be subject to Divination spells. At 9 points, they can't be detected by scent, tremorsense or blindsight, tracked, or be subject to miss chance from illusion effects.

Thought Infiltrator
Type:Head
Cost:7
With this graft in place, the Intma gains Telepathy 100ft. At 9 points, they gain the ability to "Erase thought" with a full-round action. They can erase a period of their class level in minutes from a targets mind. They cannot affect the same target more than once in a week. The target gets a will save of 14+Wis. A Remove Curse or similar spell reverses the effect.
True Soul Options:At 15 points, it grants the ability to replace the memory, so the target believes something else happened, rather than just having no memory of the event at all. At 20 points, the Intima can erase their own thoughts, including Death. They can, as an immediate action that takes place before damage is added, but after it is calculated, ignore damage from one attack once per week, this stuns the Intima for 1 round.


Legs:


Barricade Stance
Cost: 5
This graft allows the Intima to withstand their enemy's attacks. The intima gains a +3 bonus against bull rush attempts, and a +3 bonus to AC against Charge attacks.

Lightfooted
Cost: 5
The intima that uses this graft becomes unbelievably swift. Their base speed increases by 20ft. and the gain a +3 bonus on Balance, Tumble, and Swim checks. In addition, the Intima gains a +2 dodge bonus to AC. At 7 points, the bonuses increase by 1.

Reflexive movement
Cost: 6
An Intima with this graft can move their full movement as a swift action. In addition, once each day, as an immediate action, they can make a 10ft. step which does not provoke attacks of opprotunity. At 7 points, they can do this twice a day, and at 9; three times each day.

Dancing Reaper
Cost:8
By modeling yourself after the swiftest of warriors, you can move around the battlefield and decimate your enemies at the same time. Your movement increases by 10ft. and you gain the spring attack feat. You can use this feat even if you don't meet the prerequisites.

Madara
2012-03-04, 06:38 PM
Reserved for Feats and PrCs

PrC: Sagiensis (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235850), an Intima who focuses on detection.

Mutias (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12917688#post12917688)


Feats(All candidates for the bonus feat of the Intima):

Empower Graft[Graft]
You can strengthen the effects of your graft.
Prerequisite: Must have Soul Grafts as a class feature.
Benefit: By spending 3 extra points on a graft, that graft's random numeral effects are multiplied by 1.5.

Stretched Graft[Graft]
Your grafts have a larger area of effect.
Prerequisite: Must have Soul Grafts as a class feature.
Benefit: by spending 4 extra points on a graft, its distance of measurement is increased to 1.5. This includes the swim speed of Aqua graft, and other movement modes.

Graft Combo: Underdark[Graft]
When using certain grafts in combination, you are in touch with the Souls of those who live under the earth.
Prerequisite: Must be able to use the Tunneling and Ooze Grafts
Benefit: When using both the Tunneling and Ooze grafts, the Intima's darkvision increases by 40ft. If they have no darkvision, they gain darkvision 60ft.

Spent[General]
You can lose a graft to gain hit points.
Prerequisite: Must have Soul Grafts as a class feature.
Benefit: By unequipped a graft for the rest of the day, you gain hit points equal to 1d6/point worth of graft lost.

Greater Soul Sense[General]
You are more in touch with people's Souls.
Prerequisite: Must have the Soul Detection Class feature.
Benefit: Your Soul Detection range increases by 15ft. and you can attempt to determine Intelligence of the Creature and creature type as an immediate action.

Extra Soul Strength[General]
Your soul can withstand more changes than usual.
Prerequisite: Must have Soul Grafts as a class feature.
Benefit: You gain 3 more points in your graft pool.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times, its effects stack.

Mostly finished- Feel free to Critique the current material and give advice on future options.

NeoSeraphi
2012-03-04, 10:33 PM
Saves: I personally don't agree with the Medium save progression, and there's nothing wrong with just giving this class Good progression for its Fort and Will saves. But that's just my opinion.

Skills: If you're giving the class Jump and Swim, you should give it Climb as well. Those three are pretty much joined at the hip. Same with Balance and Tumble. As a grafting class, I also think Heal would be appropriate.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:...So he's proficient with a scythe, heavy mace, spear, and longspear, but not with the sickle, mace, shortspear or javelin? :smallconfused:

Armor and shields look fine.

Soul Graft: I suggest you make this work like soulmelds from Magic of Incarnum, as in, you can change them every day, rather than every week. It's actually quite a bit of bookwork and remembering to do it every week, especially since some game sessions only go for two or three days in-game before they stop each time. It's just easier on the player.

Graft Pool: Charisma, huh? Well, I guess it's all about the soul or whatever. Feels like more of a Wisdom-based thing to me, but I don't know the specifics of the fluff, so I'll just say you should put (minimum +0) here, and move on.

Bonus Feats: Please add a line about "Must meet the prerequisites" here.

Soul Detection: This is very interesting. You should make it work like the detect magic spell, but for living creatures, and thus have it tell you more information if you concentrate on a soul over three rounds, and allow, say, a Heal check to identify more about the creature's soul with a DC of like 10+HD of creature.

Weapon Bond: This is also a very interesting ability. However, if you're attacking someone's soul with the weapon, I'd say something a little heavier than 5 force damage is needed. This is 20th level we're talking about, after all. How about some Charisma drain? Maybe 1d4 Charisma drain each hit, instead of a damage over time effect? And you have the Intima gain 5 temporary hit points for each point of Charisma it drains?

Graft Swap: Okay, this is nice, but it really does come too late. Like I said, this isn't really about balance, it's just about how long a week can take for some games. Especially in the early levels, D&D isn't a 15-minute workday. I've spent in-game months in a few hours, and I've spent two sessions playing through one in-game day. Time is an erratic thing, and a week is just not a good way to track this stuff. I would make this the original mechanic, and have Graft Swap let them change it once per day (allowing them to change their Grafts twice per day total)

Dual Graft: Logical. Useful. Depending on the number of different grafts you manage to make, this will allow for a lot of customization.

Graft Release: Okay, the limitation on using Graft Swap is kind of harsh. What if the week actually ended? You have no lenience there, by RAW. Also, this damage needs a type of some kind (force, probably). The ability itself is decent.

I'm a little busy, so I'll come back and review the grafts themselves later.

Madara
2012-03-04, 11:19 PM
Saves: I personally don't agree with the Medium save progression, and there's nothing wrong with just giving this class Good progression for its Fort and Will saves. But that's just my opinion.
I added resonance of souls, which is similar to a Paladin, but doesn't allows them to meet prereqs sooner because their base save isn't higher.


Skills: If you're giving the class Jump and Swim, you should give it Climb as well. Those three are pretty much joined at the hip. Same with Balance and Tumble. As a grafting class, I also think Heal would be appropriate.

Skill list is getting large, but that's a valid point. Updated.


Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:...So he's proficient with a scythe, heavy mace, spear, and longspear, but not with the sickle, mace, shortspear or javelin? :smallconfused:

Armor and shields look fine.

Updated Weapons, I only put down the ones on the list I thought people would use :smallredface:


Soul Graft: I suggest you make this work like soulmelds from Magic of Incarnum, as in, you can change them every day, rather than every week. It's actually quite a bit of bookwork and remembering to do it every week, especially since some game sessions only go for two or three days in-game before they stop each time. It's just easier on the player.

Changed for ease of use.


Graft Pool: Charisma, huh? Well, I guess it's all about the soul or whatever. Feels like more of a Wisdom-based thing to me, but I don't know the specifics of the fluff, so I'll just say you should put (minimum +0) here, and move on.


Essentially, you change your soul. Every change causes damage to your personality and Identity. The Charisma is because of your "Force of Personality".


Bonus Feats: Please add a line about "Must meet the prerequisites" here.

Soul Detection: This is very interesting. You should make it work like the detect magic spell, but for living creatures, and thus have it tell you more information if you concentrate on a soul over three rounds, and allow, say, a Heal check to identify more about the creature's soul with a DC of like 10+HD of creature.
Changed, and I was going for a Telepathy+Mindsight type ability. But I think that would be more balanced, so changed. I'm a little worried about the DC, so I might change it in the future.


Weapon Bond: This is also a very interesting ability. However, if you're attacking someone's soul with the weapon, I'd say something a little heavier than 5 force damage is needed. This is 20th level we're talking about, after all. How about some Charisma drain? Maybe 1d4 Charisma drain each hit, instead of a damage over time effect? And you have the Intima gain 5 temporary hit points for each point of Charisma it drains?
Changed, because it is 20th level. I have almost no high level experience as a player(and no actual epic play), so its hard to judge these things.



Graft Swap: Okay, this is nice, but it really does come too late. Like I said, this isn't really about balance, it's just about how long a week can take for some games. Especially in the early levels, D&D isn't a 15-minute workday. I've spent in-game months in a few hours, and I've spent two sessions playing through one in-game day. Time is an erratic thing, and a week is just not a good way to track this stuff. I would make this the original mechanic, and have Graft Swap let them change it once per day (allowing them to change their Grafts twice per day total)
Oddly, this was going to be about 12th level, and then I thought that it should come into play earlier. I think 7th level works for it, but I did change the Grafting to per day.


Dual Graft: Logical. Useful. Depending on the number of different grafts you manage to make, this will allow for a lot of customization.

Graft Release: Okay, the limitation on using Graft Swap is kind of harsh. What if the week actually ended? You have no lenience there, by RAW. Also, this damage needs a type of some kind (force, probably). The ability itself is decent.

Damage type added, and as above, Graft Swap has been fixed.


I'm a little busy, so I'll come back and review the grafts themselves later.
Sounds good, thanks for the input. :smallsmile:

Empedocles
2012-03-05, 03:27 PM
A grafting class could definitely benefit from being a bit of a skill monkey, especially if you want to put it up in the higher Tiers. Altogether though, a very nice class :smallsmile:

Madara
2012-03-05, 06:07 PM
Thank you:smallsmile:. But I think I need to explain. The grafts aren't physical, they can't even be seen(Unless you want to make them visible, or they are actually having an effect, like tentacles). Its merely symbolic of changing the soul, so I called them grafts. That's why I was hesitant with the Heal skill.

I don't know about skill monkey. I suppose if people think its too weak as-is. Its supposed to be melee, and I think 4+int is plenty.

Empedocles
2012-03-05, 07:23 PM
Thank you:smallsmile:. But I think I need to explain. The grafts aren't physical, they can't even be seen(Unless you want to make them visible, or they are actually having an effect, like tentacles). Its merely symbolic of changing the soul, so I called them grafts. That's why I was hesitant with the Heal skill.

I don't know about skill monkey. I suppose if people think its too weak as-is. Its supposed to be melee, and I think 4+int is plenty.

Hmmm ok I think it's fair to say that he doesn't have the heal skill then (not a major point anyways). I personally would say that if playtesting shows that the Intima is underpowered, give it a few new skills and 6 skill points before making other edits. If he's overpowered...then you've just made a successfully overpowered melee class :smallbiggrin: Kudos.

Madara
2012-03-05, 07:42 PM
True. I'm gonna look for a place to playtest(maybe the forums..), thoughts on any grafts I could add? I don't have too many options for the head slot.

Empedocles
2012-03-05, 09:00 PM
True. I'm gonna look for a place to playtest(maybe the forums..), thoughts on any grafts I could add? I don't have too many options for the head slot.

I took a look at Magic of Incarnum, since it's thematically similar to what you've done here (although, I honestly like the intima better). You could give him a graft that lets him influence the thoughts of others mind-to-mind, a low-cost graft that strengthens the intima's own force of will (bonus to will saves and a spell-like ability maybe?) and something that lets him dominate people he makes eye contact with (high level graft). Also, you did the fire elemental crown graft, so why not make something similar for the other elementals?

Madara
2012-03-05, 09:08 PM
I took a look at Magic of Incarnum, since it's thematically similar to what you've done here (although, I honestly like the intima better). You could give him a graft that lets him influence the thoughts of others mind-to-mind, a low-cost graft that strengthens the intima's own force of will (bonus to will saves and a spell-like ability maybe?) and something that lets him dominate people he makes eye contact with (high level graft). Also, you did the fire elemental crown graft, so why not make something similar for the other elementals?

I added the Crown, which give mind-controlishness. I like the will boost, that sounds good. I'm putting most of the elemental stuff in the legs, since they grant movement modes. The fire one is just to add something to the head that could go anywhere.

Empedocles
2012-03-05, 09:55 PM
I added the Crown, which give mind-controlishness. I like the will boost, that sounds good. I'm putting most of the elemental stuff in the legs, since they grant movement modes. The fire one is just to add something to the head that could go anywhere.

Sorry for the slightly delayed response; domestic crisis :smalleek:

Sounds good, but if I were you (just for consistency) I think I'd make something movement-oriented but located in the crown ethereal in nature, kind of like the blink spell (he flickers from place to place).

Also, something that lets him become attuned to other's thoughts might be neat for a crown graft, and maybe by spending points he can begin to effect their thoughts or even their memory?

Grimsage Matt
2012-03-05, 10:00 PM
Nice class. One thing you could try is to make some Grafts that you need to have the right Core graft active in order to use, kind of like a grafting chain. Also to do a bad pun, You ever think of making one that lets them use the Sharringen?

Empedocles
2012-03-05, 10:04 PM
Nice class. One thing you could try is to make some Grafts that you need to have the right Core graft active in order to use, kind of like a grafting chain.

Doesn't that feel like a PrC to you, since it's kind of a huge stretch for a class with such cemented grounwork already?

Madara
2012-03-05, 10:16 PM
Well, I'm thinking a few options in terms of PrCs
1. Lets you spend more points in grafts.
2. Lets you place your graft on someone else.
3. Specializes in certain grafts.

Feats:
1.Meta-graft feats. Empower, Maximize..ect
2. Ways to spend points besides Grafts


As for the grafting chain, its a no-go. That would limit the total number of combos. I don't want any restrictions on graft combos.

As for the sharingan..I'll think about it..:smallwink:

Empedocles
2012-03-06, 12:04 AM
Well, I'm thinking a few options in terms of PrCs
1. Lets you spend more points in grafts.
2. Lets you place your graft on someone else.
3. Specializes in certain grafts.

Feats:
1.Meta-graft feats. Empower, Maximize..ect
2. Ways to spend points besides Grafts


That sounds good. This might be too much of a stretch, but would a PrC class that creates totally separate entities out of grafts be too much? He's crafting independent spirits out of grafts that have abilities based on the grafts they're made up of. They would all need a core graft, which would determine the basics of the spirit, and then you could add legs, arms, and a head which would all be grafts and add different abilities. Since it's made out of a spiritual graft, said spirit wouldn't be like a summoned monster, but more like an invisible guardian...

If that's too much of a stretch then :smallfrown: and sorry, but if you like it I'd love to see one designed

Madara
2012-03-06, 04:21 PM
That sounds good. This might be too much of a stretch, but would a PrC class that creates totally separate entities out of grafts be too much? He's crafting independent spirits out of grafts that have abilities based on the grafts they're made up of. They would all need a core graft, which would determine the basics of the spirit, and then you could add legs, arms, and a head which would all be grafts and add different abilities. Since it's made out of a spiritual graft, said spirit wouldn't be like a summoned monster, but more like an invisible guardian...

If that's too much of a stretch then :smallfrown: and sorry, but if you like it I'd love to see one designed

Its fine, in fact I had thought about that at one point. However, I don't know how well that would go with a melee character. I'm trying to keep out pets &minions because that doesn't strike me as a melee thing. But it could be a PrC.

Empedocles
2012-03-06, 05:07 PM
Its fine, in fact I had thought about that at one point. However, I don't know how well that would go with a melee character. I'm trying to keep out pets &minions because that doesn't strike me as a melee thing. But it could be a PrC.

That's a good point, and I suppose you're right that it's not like a melee character. Looking at it like that, I'm not sure such a PrC would work, since it sounds like it'd have bad HD and BA and all. If anything, it'd be an entirely new core class that draws from the same system. In any case, it was just an idea and while in theory I still like it, the idea might have to be used with a different set of rules anyways...

Madara
2012-03-06, 05:15 PM
Indeed.

I'm still looking for PEACH on specific grafts :smallsmile:

Empedocles
2012-03-06, 05:33 PM
I'm still looking for PEACH on specific grafts :smallsmile:

The flash graft for the arms (right at the top) feels like a core graft to me. He binds it, and turns into a sort of flashy solar flare that scares people with light. Also, to me the idea of him emanating light from his core is cooler then if his arms were glowing...that seems a little lame (no offense).

Madara
2012-03-06, 06:00 PM
That sounds good, I'll think about moving it.

Mando Knight
2012-03-06, 06:16 PM
Updated Weapons, I only put down the ones on the list I thought people would use :smallredface:

Why not just make it Simple and Martial weapons, like many other melee classes?

Also, full BAB. One of the biggest drawbacks of the Monk as a melee class is that it doesn't have full BAB, rendering its Flurry of Blows as a Flurry of Misses and not giving it that 4th attack outside of the Flurry.

And please, no Medium save progressions. They're just strange. Also, the Paladin gets a Good save. (in PF it gets two, but that's beside the point)

Madara
2012-03-06, 06:42 PM
ok, I can do full BAB. That sounds reasonable. I went with medium saves because I don't feel like they should have the best progression. But from a crunch standpoint, that sounds reasonable.

I don't feel like giving all martial weapons. Maybe simple+certain martials

Mando Knight
2012-03-07, 02:04 AM
ok, I can do full BAB. That sounds reasonable. I went with medium saves because I don't feel like they should have the best progression. But from a crunch standpoint, that sounds reasonable.
Everyone gets at least one Good save. Everyone. Except for really lame characters. Like commoners. Go with one good and two bad if you don't want them having a lot of good saves.

I don't feel like giving all martial weapons. Maybe simple+certain martials
If you do, don't make it an odd selection... why the Greataxe and Scimitar, but not the Short, Long, or Greatswords or the Battleaxe (as it was before the change to all Martial)? Be prepared to defend your choices. For example, you're still not giving them Short or Longbows... why? (They still get Crossbows, by the way...)

Also, Spiked Chain should cost the feat. You're encouraging a stupid, cheesy weapon.

Madara
2012-03-07, 08:26 AM
For example, you're still not giving them Short or Longbows... why? (They still get Crossbows, by the way...)

Also, Spiked Chain should cost the feat. You're encouraging a stupid, cheesy weapon.
Weapon Bond applies to any weapon a person is proficient with. The grafts have almost entirely melee effects, and for them to come from a bow would not fit the concept. The Crossbows are merely throwing a bone to the class if they want a ranged weapon.

As for spiked chain, its maybe worth 1/2 a feat. Exotic weapons are almost never worth it, this one is just another reach weapon with a bonus, easily replicated by other feats that help you with any weapon. However, I will not bring that debate here. It goes to the other gaming forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12854022#post12854022)

Edit: I am seeing that others believe differently, therefore I changed it to all simple and martial weapons(no spiked chain), with a new restriction to Weapon Bond.

Madara
2012-03-08, 09:53 PM
I stepped into reality and realized how hard it is to find a race that has good Strength and Charisma, so I changed it to Wisdom, opening up more races as viable options.

I'm working on feats and maybe double-checking the balance of some grafts.

Grafts I'm curious about:

The ooze graft. 1/2 damage against piercing and slashing for 4pts. That seems pretty strong. Should I reduce it to some DR?

Vixsor Lumin
2012-03-16, 05:37 PM
I think that some DR would be more balanced, but as a side note: are the grafts visible? The soul usually isn't, but with grafts like flash or tentacles it seems like they would be.

Madara
2012-03-17, 09:35 AM
Usually they aren't visible, but they can be seen by See Invisibility or some other effect, In which case they could appear as any color.

In another option, they could be visible, but only to those they touch, like the tentacle graft.

I'll think about the DR, it doesn't give the feel I was going for. Maybe a low regeneration or something...

Amechra
2012-03-17, 09:55 AM
Weapon Graft needs a note on what happens if it gets Sundered or Destroyed; as it is, you only get a new one after leveling, which is kinda lame.

Adding your Wisdom to Saves is not that bad; Paladins add their Charisma to saves at 2nd level, and they are lauded for it.

I mean, you already need Strength for your attack rolls (and don't say that you don't; you don't auto-make Touch Attacks until 15th level), Constitution for HP, and Wisdom for your save DCs.

So getting Wisdom to saves is just fine.

I'll take a more-than-cursory look at your Grafts soon.

unosarta
2012-03-17, 10:05 AM
In terms of Wisdom to saves, if you were really worried about it, you could make it a Resistance bonus. More than half of the bonuses to saves are Resistance bonuses, and they don't stack with each other. For instance, the Magic items that are basically a mainstay at high levels which give a flat bonus to all of your saves are resistance bonuses. Just some food for thought...

Madara
2012-03-17, 10:58 AM
Well, the Weapon Graft applies to any weapon of the type.

So, if I choose a sythe as my weapon for that level, I can use any sythe.

And if you're referring directly to the graft, grafts can't be sundered..

unosarta, I like that, I think I will change it to a resistance bonus.

Madara
2012-05-13, 07:04 PM
I thought I'd give an update, I'm playing this class in a PbP. So far its been T4. Not quite effective at fighting multiple targets, and other classes(Casters) can do the job a little better. We'll see if it acts like a T3 at all.

Vixsor Lumin
2012-05-13, 07:45 PM
Well some of the major components of raising tiers is utility and versatility. Dual Graft and being able to switch them greatly increase versatility, while a good portion of the grafts add utility. A fighter needs lots of money and magic items and spell caster friends to compare to using grafts. Is it wizard or sorcerer level power? No. Is that a bad thing? Not at all. From what I've seen it is good at doing its job in melee, and (since I'm in the same PbP) I think its hard to pick a tier yet since we have only tested combat so far. I think that things like Spider and Tunnling will be very useful outside of combat, and that's just from looking at arms! There are dozens of grafts and each one is unique. If your worried its not stong enough, id add more grafts. The chassis is strong enough for my tastes anyway.

Snowfire
2012-05-14, 04:12 PM
You've gotten unlucky most of the time so far - and you did almost murder that spellcaster. Also bear in mind that you were not fighting enemies that were quite...normal (in any sense of the term).

Next few encounters should allow you to flex those soul-muscles a bit.

Oh, and if you didn't guess, I'm the DM of the PbP these two *points up* poor sods are taking part in. And we're just getting into the fun stuff :smallamused:

Madara
2012-05-14, 04:52 PM
Thanks guys, I'm thinking of adding more grafts soon. We'll see how the class stands up.

Waker
2012-06-17, 01:11 PM
A curious class indeed. I'll have to take the time to look at the Grafts in detail, but for now I'm just going to comment on a few things.
Like others have said, I think the save progression is kinda weird. You might want to consider changing it to Fort/Will Good, Refl/Bad.
The 15th level Weapon Bond ability is a bit much. A full-bab class that needs to hit touch ac is criminally easy. You could guarantee that regardless of whatever crazy penalties you apply, you will hit with every attack on certain enemies. Maybe change it to something like add Wisdom modifier to hit or automatically confirm criticals. I do like the Force effect, melee needs something nice to overcome incorporeal/ethereal enemies.

Madara
2012-06-17, 01:42 PM
A curious class indeed. I'll have to take the time to look at the Grafts in detail, but for now I'm just going to comment on a few things.
Like others have said, I think the save progression is kinda weird. You might want to consider changing it to Fort/Will Good, Refl/Bad.
The 15th level Weapon Bond ability is a bit much. A full-bab class that needs to hit touch ac is criminally easy. You could guarantee that regardless of whatever crazy penalties you apply, you will hit with every attack on certain enemies. Maybe change it to something like add Wisdom modifier to hit or automatically confirm criticals. I do like the Force effect, melee needs something nice to overcome incorporeal/ethereal enemies.

I will rethink it. I guess I should change the progression if there is enough problem with it. As for the Weapon Bond, I can see where you're coming from, but it wouldn't do too much to auto-hit with your weapon. At level 15 2d6+12(Greatsword with a +6 str bonus) and we'll say its magic so 4d6+12 damage. Compared to casters I don't really see a problem with 24 damage per hit. I think I'll do the Wis to Hit maybe.