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Master Arminas
2012-03-14, 01:31 PM
I was a fan of the Warlock class when it debutted in 3.5's Complete Arcane. Quickly, however, I learned just how underpowered the class was in comparison to other spell-casters, even many martial classes. Many attempts were made by many fans to fix the problems, but then 3.5 went away, replaced by Pathfinder and 4.0. I don't play 4.0, so I have no idea what happened to the Warlock there. But since the original class wasn't Open Game License, it couldn't be officially converted for Pathfinder. So I thought I would try my hand at it.

Let me warn you all; there will be features than fans of the Warlock do not like in this conversion. The reason being that I have made it into a hybird that uses both spells and invocations; and in this case invocation means only a blast shape or eldritch essence applied to the Warlock's eldritch blast.

Calmly, people, calmly.

No, it doesn't ruin the class. While the damage potential of the 3.5 Warlock was low, the ability to spam his utility invocations all day long made a lot of people hate the class: primarily DMs. So this conversion is a compromise. It has the eldritch blast and invocations that affect it, and can use those once a round, every round, all day long. And, it's former utility invocations have been replaced with a bard-type spell list, ranging from 0-6th level.

Ah, so now you are interested. It is a different take on the Warlock, but I ask that you take a look, digest the changes, and then tell me what you really think. I appreciate any and all honest critiques, comments, criticisms, suggestions, and advice that you folks have to offer.

And I hope that you enjoy my work on this very fun and very versatile class.

Master Arminas

Master Arminas’s Warlock for Pathfinder

Born with eldritch power coursing through their veins, Warlocks are a breed apart from more traditional wielders of arcane magic. They see things that no child should notice, and they know things that none of such an age should be aware of. From their childhood years onward, Warlocks are isolated, as their neighbors begin to sense the strange power within him. Eventually, all fledging Warlocks grow angry, and manifest their first eldritch blast, often with tragic consequences. For those who are not simply killed by frightened peasants or do not go mad over the results of their actions, it is the first step on a perilous career to harness the raw energy exuding from within them. Those few discover that they do not wield magic, they are magic: a living, breathing avatar of eldritch energy.
No one knows the source of a Warlock's powers, not sages, not mystics, not even the Warlock himself. Unlike a sorcerer who is born to a blood-heritage that influences his magic, many fledgling Warlocks have no history of such influences in their family tree. Nor does race seem to matter to the power that gifts a Warlock with their abilities. Every race has seen some of its children born with this precarious gift.
Because of the toll inflicted on a Warlock by the constant rejection and hostility that he faces, most are neutral in alignment--at best. A significant minority are completely evil in outlook, seeking to do unto others as they have done unto him. Although rare, good Warlocks do exist, seeking to harness the eldritch powers within them for a purpose and cause higher than one’s own self. Sadly, even these few are shunned by those who become aware of what they are, for the stories of evil wrought by more malevolent Warlocks are the common fare of bards and commoners.
To be a Warlock is to be alone; a being never fully trusted by anyone who fears what unknown forces might well be granting these perilous powers to a mere mortal.

Role: Warlocks, while no true substitute for a sorcerer or wizard, are an excellent supplement to them. While their spells lack those which cause damage, for that purpose the class possesses eldritch blast, and there are many battlefield control and utility spells on their list. They also gain more skills than more traditional arcane casters, and their proficiency with arms and armor (and higher hit points) serves them well in melee. The versatility of effects that a warlock can bring to a party ensures that this class will always find a place and an opportunity to shine.

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d8

Base Attack Bonus: Medium

Good Saving Throws: Will

Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Fly (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Knowledge (The Planes) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The warlock is proficient with all simple weapons. He is proficient with light armor, but not with medium or heavy armor, or with shields of any type. The warlock can cast warlock spells (but not arcane spells gained from other classes) in light armor without incurring the normal chance of arcane spell failure. While wearing medium or heavy armor or when using a shield, a warlock suffers the normal chance of spell failure.

CLASS FEATURES

Eldritch Blast (Su): A warlock gains a supernatural ability known as the eldritch blast; this ability allow the warlock to focus his eldritch arcane energy into a damaging blast of dark energies able to wound, or even kill, his opponents. As a standard action a warlock can make a ranged touch attack against an opponent within 60 feet, dealing 1d8 points of damage (the damage results from pure arcane energy and does not possess an energy type, therefore energy resistances and immunities offer no protection). The target of the eldritch blast receives no saving throw. Although the eldritch blast itself does not provoke an attack of opportunity, it should be noted that all ranged touch attacks in Pathfinder do provoke an attack of opportunity when the to-hit roll is made.
At 2nd level, and every two warlock levels gained thereafter, the damage inflicted by an eldritch blast increases by 1d8 to a maximum of 11d8 at 20th level.
An eldritch blast is not subject to spell resistance.
An eldritch blast deals half damage to objects.
For the purposes of the spells globe of invulnerability, lesser globe of invulnerability, and similar powers and effects, a 1st level warlock’s eldritch blast has an effective spell level equal to a 1st-level spell. At each odd-numbered warlock level gained thereafter, the eldritch blast strength increases by one level, to an effective spell of 9th-level at warlock level 17.

Invocations (Su): Warlocks learn a number of magic tricks, called invocations, which he can apply to his eldritch blast. At 1st level, a warlock gains one of the following minor invocations of his choice. He gains an additional invocation at 2nd level and for every 2 levels attained after 2nd level. A warlock cannot select an individual invocation more than once.
Unless otherwise noted, invocations are part of the same standard action a warlock uses to unleash his eldritch blast. The save (if any) to resist an invocation is equal to 10 + ˝ the warlock’s level + the warlock’s Charisma modifier.
A warlock can apply only one invocation to any given eldritch blast.

Minor Invocations (Su):
Beshadowed Blast (Su): The target of the eldritch blast suffers normal damage and must make a Fortitude saving throw or become blinded for 2 rounds. On a successful save, the target is instead dazzled for 1 round. A warlock must be at least 6th level to select this invocation.
Boreal Blast (Su): The warlock alters his eldritch blast to inflict cold damage. The damage on his eldritch blast increases by +1d8; this extra damage applies only to the boreal blast.
Eldritch Spear (Su): The warlock can use his eldritch blast at medium range (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) instead of the standard 60-foot range.
Exsanguinating Blast (Su): The target of the eldritch blast suffers normal damage and must make a Fortitude saving throw or suffer 1d6 points of bleed damage. On a successful save, the target is instead suffers 1 point of bleed damage. Regardless, the DC for a heal check to staunch the bleeding is equal to that of the invocation; a cure wounds spell of any level automatically staunches this effect. A warlock must be at least 4th level to select this invocation.
Frightful Blast (Su): The target of the eldritch blast suffers normal damage and must make a Will saving throw or become shaken for 2 rounds. On a successful save, the target is not affected. This is a mind-affecting, fear affect.
Hideous Blow (Su): The warlock infuses his melee weapon with the power of his eldritch blast. This invocation may be used as a standard action, and imbues one melee weapon which the warlock is currently wielding with the energy of his eldritch blast. As part of the invocation, the warlock may make a single melee attack roll with his weapon, gaining a bonus on the attack roll equal to the warlock’s Charisma modifier (if any). If the attack successful hits the warlock deals normal weapon damage plus the full damage of his eldritch blast. A successful critical hit (using the weapons critical threat range) multiplies the damage for both the weapon and the eldritch blast, with the damage for each figured separately and then added together if the critical multipliers are different. Since hideous blow is not a ranged touch attack, this is the only eldritch blast invocation that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A warlock must be at least 6th level to select this invocation.
Hindering Blast (Su): The target of the eldritch blast suffers normal damage and must make a Will saving throw or become slowed for 2 rounds. On a successful save, the target is not affected.
Inferno Blast (Su): The warlock alters his eldritch blast to inflict fire damage. The damage on his eldritch blast increases by +1d8; this extra damage applies only to the inferno blast.
Maelstrom Blast (Su): The warlock alters his eldritch blast to inflict electricity damage. The damage on his eldritch blast increases by +1d8; this extra damage applies only to the maelstrom blast.
Sickening Blast (Su): The target of the eldritch blast suffers normal damage and must make a Fortitude saving throw or become sickened for 2 rounds. On a successful save, the target is not affected.

Spells: A warlock casts arcane spells drawn from the warlock spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a warlock must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a warlock’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the warlock’s Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a warlock can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is the same as that of the Bard class. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.
The warlock’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A warlock begins play know four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of the warlock’s choice. At each new warlock level, he gains one or more new spells, as per the Bard spells known table. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a warlock knows is not affected by his Charisma score.)
Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third warlock level after that (8th, 11th, and so on), a warlock can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the warlock “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least one level lower than the highest-level warlock spell the warlock can cast. A warlock may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.
A warlock need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for the spell’s level.

Cantrips (Su): Warlocks learn a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, as noted under Spells Known (see above). These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.

Damage Reduction (Ex): At 3rd level, the warlock’s exposure to eldritch arcane energies begins to strengthen his body, providing protection from many attacks. He gains DR 2/cold iron. This increases by 1 at 5th level and every two levels gained thereafter, to a maximum of DR/10 cold iron at 19th level.

Energy Resistance (Ex): At 5th level, the warlock gains resistance 10 to two of the following energy types: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. The warlock chooses which types of energy he becomes resistant to. At 11th level, both of these resistances increase to 20. At 17th level, the warlock’s energy resistances once again increase, this time to 30.

Eldritch Hands (Sp): Starting at 6th level, a warlock can use telekinesis, as per the spell except as stated below, as a standard action once each round. The warlock is limited to a maximum weight of 10 lbs per warlock level, and the maximum number of objects he is able to simultaneously manipulate with the violent thrust aspect ability is equal to one-half his warlock class level, rounded down (to a maximum of 10). The warlock may only this ability at medium range (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) instead of the long range listed for the spell.

Eldritch Resilience (Su): At 7th level, the warlock can use his eldritch energy to reknit his tissues, sinews, and bones. The warlock can use a swift action to grant himself fast healing 1 for 20 rounds. At 10th level, and every three levels gained thereafter, the fast healing granted by eldritch resilience increases by 1 to a maximum of fast healing 5 at 18th level. The warlock can use this ability twice per day at 13th level and three times per day at 19th level.

Eldritch Aura (Su): At 8th level, a warlock’s eldritch power grows strong enough that he unconsciously releases damaging attacks on those who harm him. Any melee attack that damages the warlock for at least 1 point of lethal damage causes a backlash in eldritch energy. This backlash deals 1d8 points of damage to the attacker. This damage results from pure arcane energy and does not possess an energy type, therefore energy resistances, energy immunities, and damage reduction of any type offer no protection against it. It always deals lethal damage and is not under the conscious control of the warlock. Any melee attack that inflicts lethal damage to the warlock provokes the use of this ability.
At 12th level, and every four levels gained thereafter as a warlock, the damage inflicts by the warlock’s eldritch aura increases by 1d8, to a maximum of 4d8 at 20th level.

Eldritch Knowledge (Su): At 9th level, the warlock gains a 1st-level arcane spell of his choice that he may add to his list of spells known. He may select from any 1st-level bard, magus, sorcerer/wizard, or witch spell to add to his spells known as a warlock spell of the appropriate level. At 11th level, and every two levels gained thereafter, the warlock gains knowledge of another arcane spell, each time of a progressively higher level (2nd-level spell at 11th level, 3rd-level spell at 13th-level, etc.). At 19th level, when the warlock gains this ability, he may select a single 7th-level sorcerer/wizard or witch spell and add it to the list of his spells known as a 6th-level warlock spell.

Major Invocations (Su): Starting at 10th level, and every two levels thereafter, a warlock can choose one of the following major invocations whenever he could select a new invocation.
Bewitching Blast (Su): The target of the eldritch blast suffers normal damage and must make a Fortitude saving throw or become confused for 2 rounds. On a successful save, the target is dazed for 1 round.
Eldritch Bolt (Su): The warlock invokes his eldritch blast in a 120-foot line that is 5-feet wide and affects all creatures within the area. No attack roll is needed for this invocation, but all targets in the area of effect are allowed a Reflex save for one-half damage.
Eldritch Cone (Su): The warlock invokes his eldritch blast in a 60-foot cone that affects all creatures within the area. No attack roll is needed for this invocation, but all targets in the area of effect are allowed a Reflex save for one-half damage.
Entropic Blast (Su): This invocation can only be used against objects weighing no more than 10 pounds per warlock level. The object takes full damage (not half) from the eldritch blast, and has its hardness reduced by one-half. This is an instantaneous effect. Any single object can only have its hardness reduced once by this invocation. Magical or attended objects are allowed a Will save to negate the hardness reduction and reduce the damage to one-half the amount rolled; non-magical unattended objects do not receive a saving throw and suffer the listed effects of this invocation. When used against constructs, entropic blast is considered to be empowered, inflicting 50% greater damage. If entropic blast is used against a construct and the warlock us his Empower Invocation class ability (see below), the entropic blast deals double damage instead.
Fatiguing Blast (Su): The target of the eldritch blast suffers normal damage and must make a Fortitude saving throw or become fatigued. On a successful save, the target is not affected. This invocation does not stack with itself. If a creature fails it’s save against this invocation twice, he remains fatigued and does not become exhausted.
Noxious Blast (Su): The target of the eldritch blast suffers normal damage and must make a Fortitude saving throw or become nauseated for 2 rounds. On a successful save, the target is sickened for 1 round.
Repelling Blast (Su): The target of the eldritch blast suffers normal damage and must make a Will saving throw or be moved 5 feet in a direction directly away from the warlock for every 5 points of damage he suffers. If the target strikes an immobile, solid object (such as wall) while still having movement remaining, he suffers an additional 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage for every 5 feet of movement remaining. While moving in such a fashion, the target provokes attacks of opportunity. A successful save negates the repelling effect.
Thundering Blast (Su): The warlock alters his eldritch blast to inflict sonic damage. Unlike other invocations that alter the energy of his eldritch blast no additional damage dice are gained.
Vitriolic Blast (Su): The warlock alters his eldritch blast to inflict acid damage. The damage on his eldritch blast increases by +2d8; this extra damage applies only to the vitriolic blast.
Weakening Blast (Su): Any creature damaged by the warlock’s eldritch bolt must make a Will save or take 2 points of Strength damage. On a successful save, the target only takes 1 point of Strength damage.

Empower Invocation (Su): At 11th level, a warlock may empower (as per the feat Empower Spell) his eldritch blast or any invocation that he knows. He may use this ability once per day. At 13th level, and every two warlock levels gained thereafter, a warlock gains one daily use of this ability, to a maximum of five times per day at 19th level.

Greater Invocation (Su): Starting at 18th level, and every two levels thereafter, a warlock can choose of one of the following greater invocations whenever he could select a new invocation.
Banishing Blast (Su): The target of the eldritch blast suffers normal damage. If the target is an outsider it must make a Will saving throw or suffer the effects of dismissal (as per the spell) if the target is an outsider. If the target is a creature otherwise summoned through a spell-effect (such as a creature summoned by any summon monster or summon nature’s ally spell), this invocation ends that spell for the targeted creature if the creature fails to make his Will saving throw, immediately sending it back to where it was summoned from.
Eldritch Doom (Su): The warlock invokes his eldritch blast in a 20-foot radius spread with a range of 60-feet that affects all creatures within the area. No attack roll is needed for this invocation, but all targets in the area of effect are allowed a Reflex save for one-half damage.
Exhausting Blast (Su): The target of the eldritch blast suffers normal damage and must make a Fortitude saving throw or become exhausted. On a successful save, the target is fatigued instead. This invocation does not stack with itself. If a creature successfully saves against this invocation twice, he remains fatigued and does not become exhausted.
Horrific Blast (Su): The target of the eldritch blast suffers normal damage and must make a Will saving throw or be stunned for 2 rounds. On a successful save, the target is staggered for 1 round.
Mirror Blast (Su): The warlock can select two targets within range of his eldritch blast, so long as both targets are within 30 feet of each other. He makes a melee touch attack against both targets, and each suffers the full damage from his eldritch blast if his attack rolls are successful.
Utterdark Blast (Su): The target of the eldritch blast suffers normal damage and must make a Fortitude saving throw or gain 2 negative levels. On a successful save, the target does not gain any negative levels. Undead creatures suffer no damage and gain no benefit from this invocation.

Warlock Supreme (Su): At 20th level, the warlock undergoes an eldritch apotheosis that is the culmination of all that he has strived to achieve. His two energy resistances improve to immunities and he gains resistance 10 against the two energy types he did not select. Five times per day, but no more than once per round, he may use his eldritch blast, and any applied invocations, as a swift action instead of a standard action. His damage reduction increases to DR 10/cold iron and magic. The warlock can also select one 8th-level sorcerer/wizard or witch spell of his choice and add it to his spells known as a 6th-level warlock spell.

Warlock Spell List

0-level Spells: Arcane Mark, Bleed, Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Flare, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Resistance
1st-level Spells: Cause Fear, Charm Person, Chill Touch, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, Endure Elements, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Hold Portal, Jump, Magic Aura, Obscuring Mist, Ray of Enfeeblement, Sleep, Unseen Servant, Ventriloquism
2nd-level Spells: Arcane Lock, Bear’s Endurance, Blindness/Deafness, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Darkvision, Darkness, Fog Cloud, Invisibility, Scare, See Invisibility, Shatter, Spider Climb, Summon Swarm, Web
3rd-level Spells: Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Fly, Gaseous Form, Greater Magic Weapon, Major Image, Nondetection, Phantom Steed, Sleet Storm, Slow, Stinking Cloud, Suggestion, Tongues, Vampiric Touch
4th-level Spells: Animate Dead, Bestow Curse, Black Tentacles, Charm Monster, Confusion, Crushing Despair, Dimension Door, Enervation, Fear, Greater Invisibility, Hallucinatory Terrain, Phantasmal Killer, Shadow Conjuration, Solid Fog
5th-level Spells: Baleful Polymorph, Blight, Cloudkill, Dominate Person, Dream, Feeblemind, Mind Fog, Mirage Arcana, Nightmare, Overland Flight, Passwall, Shadow Evocation, Teleport, Waves of Fatigue
6th-level Spells: Acid Fog, Circle of Death, Contingency, Eyebite, Flesh to Stone, Geas/Quest, Greater Dispel Magic, Mass Suggestion, Mislead, Shadow Walk, True Seeing

Warlocks and Meta- Feats: Warlocks are not eligible for feats such as Empower Spell-Like Ability or Quicken Spell-Like Ability. The eldritch blast and the various invocations are classified as supernatural abilities, and there is sufficient difference between the two that the warlock is unable to use these monster feats. In much the same fashion, a warlock cannot apply a metamagic feat to his eldritch blast or to his various invocations (although he can apply such feats to his spells as normal).

Warlocks and Ability Focus: Warlocks may take the feat Ability Focus, applied a single invocation of his choice. A warlock can select this feat multiple times. Each time, it applies to a different invocation. The feat must be taken for a specific invocation that requires a saving throw and does not apply to any other invocation that the warlock knows or invokes.

Kane0
2012-03-14, 05:48 PM
Looks really goo so far. I cant see any really big problems as yet, but ill have to do a proper read through later on.

In the meantime, could you work out a table please?

Master Arminas
2012-03-14, 05:57 PM
I've got a table in MS Word. But I have always had trouble posting them on any type of board. Any advice?

Master Arminas

Master Arminas
2012-03-14, 06:33 PM
Table I: Warlock
{table]Level| BAB|Fort|Reflex|Will|Special[/table]
{table] 1| +0|+0|+0| +2|Eldrich Blast 1d8, Minor Invocations, Cantrips[/table]
{table] 2| +1|+1|+1| +3|Eldrich Blast 2d8[/table]
{table] 3| +2|+1|+1| +3|DR 2/xx[/table]
{table] 4| +3|+1|+1| +4|Eldrich Blast 3d8[/table]
{table] 5| +3|+2|+2| +4|DR 3/xx, Energy Resistance 10[/table]
{table] 6| +4|+2|+2| +5|Eldrich Blast 4d8, Eldritch Hands[/table]
{table] 7| +5|+2|+2| +5|DR 4/xx, Eldritch Resilience 1/day[/table]
{table] 8| +6/+1|+3|+3| +6|Eldritch Blast 5d8, Eldritch Aura 1d8[/table]
{table] 9| +6/+1|+3|+3| +6|DR 5/xx, Eldritch Knowledge (1st)[/table]
{table]10| +7/+2|+3|+3| +7|Eldrich Blast 6d8, Major Invocations[/table]
{table]11| +8/+3|+4|+4| +7|DR 6/xx, Energy Resistance 20, Eldritch Knowledge (2nd), Empower Invocation 1/day[/table]
{table]12| +9/+4|+4|+4| +8|Eldritch Blast 7d8, Eldritch Aura 2d8[/table]
{table]13| +9/+4|+4|+4| +8|DR 7/xx, Eldritch Resilience 2/day, Eldritch Knowledge (3rd), Empower Invocation 2/day[/table]
{table]14| +10/+5|+5|+5| +9|Eldritch Blast 8d8[/table]
{table]15|+11/+6/+1|+5|+5| +9|DR 8/xx, Eldritch Knowledge (4th), Empower Invocation 3/day[/table]
{table]16|+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10|Eldritch Blast 9d8, Eldritch Aura 3d8[/table]
{table]17|+12/+7/+2|+6|+6|+10|DR 9/xx, Energy Resistance 30, Eldritch Knowledge (5th), Empower Invocation 4/day[/table]
{table]18|+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11|Eldritch Blast 10d8, Greater Invocations[/table]
{table]19|+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|DR 10/xx, Eldritch Resilience 3/day, Eldritch Knowledge (6th), Empower Invocation 5/day[/table]
{table]20|+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Eldritch Blast 11d8, Eldritch Aura 4d8, Warlock Supreme[/table]


Table II: Warlock
Invocations Spells per Day
Level Invocations 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
1 1 1 - - - - -
2 2 2 - - - - -
3 2 3 - - - - -
4 3 3 1 - - - -
5 3 4 2 - - - -
6 4 4 3 - - - -
7 4 4 3 1 - - -
8 5 4 4 2 - - -
9 5 5 4 3 - - -
10 6 5 4 3 1 - -
11 6 5 4 4 2 - -
12 7 5 5 4 3 - -
13 7 5 5 4 3 1 -
14 8 5 5 4 4 2 -
15 8 5 5 5 4 3 -
16 9 5 5 5 4 3 1
17 9 5 5 5 4 4 2
18 10 5 5 5 5 4 3
19 10 5 5 5 5 5 4
20 11 5 5 5 5 5 5



Table III: Warlock
Spells Known
Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
1 4 2 - - - - -
2 5 3 - - - - -
3 6 4 - - - - -
4 6 4 2 - - - -
5 6 4 3 - - - -
6 6 4 4 - - - -
7 6 5 4 2 - - -
8 6 5 4 3 - - -
9 6 5 4 4 - - -
10 6 5 5 4 2 - -
11 6 6 5 4 3 - -
12 6 6 5 4 4 - -
13 6 6 5 5 4 2 -
14 6 6 6 5 4 3 -
15 6 6 6 5 4 4 -
16 6 6 6 5 5 4 2
17 6 6 6 6 5 4 3
18 6 6 6 6 5 4 4
19 6 6 6 6 5 5 4
20 6 6 6 6 6 5 5

Master Arminas
2012-03-14, 06:37 PM
There you go; made them work.

Master Arminas

Master Arminas
2012-03-16, 11:11 AM
One thing I tried to do with this conversion was to keep the feel of the class. The at-will eldritch blast let's the player blast all day long if he wants to. But the utility powers (in this case, spells) are a finite resource that force the warlock to make choices. I could be wrong, but I believe this approach makes the warlock a solid choice as a party member.

Master Arminas

Master Arminas
2012-03-20, 08:32 PM
No one else has any thoughts at all? :smallfrown::smallfrown:

Master Arminas

MammonAzrael
2012-03-20, 11:52 PM
Point-by-point thoughts:


Check the FAQ (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb_faq) to learn how to post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb_read_and_post#faq_vb_special_codes) tables (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/misc.php?do=bbcode#table). Then add them to the original post, not several posts later.
The introductory fluff is extremely narrow, far more narrow than any base class fluff should be. While there may be a general tendency to lean towards fluff like that, it should in no means be set in stone (or implied to be). Particularly since there is no mechanical reason for them to share similar childhoods.
Additionally, the fluff doesn't really sound like a Warlock at all. In fact this fluff feels much more similar to the fluff of the 3.5 Sorcerer: "We're magical, and no one knows why!"
Their role feels very confused and unfocused. They aren't as good as Wizards or Sorcerers, and...melee? Their primary abilities are a ranged touch attack and spells, and you're suggesting they enter melee? You don't even give them proficiency with a martial weapon! I feel like this needs to be refined.
Eldritch Blast

You don't need the sentence calling out that EB doesn't allow a save.
So...in effect it does provoke a save then, doesn't it? That sentence should probably be removed as well - it's only purpose is reminder text for 3.5 players, and if you're playing Pathfinder you should already know it's rules.
Why did you chose to make EB a d8, and progress on even levels to 11d8? :smallconfused:
As a Supernatural ability EB already ignores SR, and does not need it spelled out in the description.

Invocations

These aren't invocations, these are Eldritch Essences (and later Blast Shapes). I'd rename them as such.
The wording is confusing and messy. They should all be collected and place into a single section, not scattered throughout the class.
Why is it that minor seems to be the only section that has "you must be X level" restrictions? What issue do you have with just using Least/Lesser/Greater/Dark?
I did not read through all the invocations because they simply appear as a giant wall of text, not easily red through. And, as I covered above, they're broken up in between other class features.
Spells - So they're bad Sorcerers? I have not combed the spell list to check but do you offer any spells, much less numerous spells, from lists other than the Wiz/Sor list? Is there anything that makes them more than just a limited Sorcerer?
Cantrips - So, they can be used at-will then?
DR - Why cold iron? The original class was thematically tied to demons, but this version is not. So why cold iron? In fact, why DR at all? Just because it's a legacy ability?
ER - Seems fine, if bland.
Eldritch Hands - Interesting, it feels like a natural extension of EB. I like it.
Eldritch Resistance - Why is this limited? Why don't you just get Fast Healing?
Eldritch Aura - Ok, but the wording feels clunky, and why don't they have any control of the ability? The damage also feels rather anemic, particularly in light that warlocks will rarely want to actually be in melee. Oh, and the flavor feels really weird: How does the aura know when it's melee damage and not ranged? How does it know to lash out at the attacker, and not everyone in range? What is it's range?
Eldritch Knowledge - Why don't you just start it 2 levels earlier, so the progression does go all wonky at 19th level?
Empower Invocation - How does he Empower an Invocation if the only Invocations there are modify your EB?
Warlock Supreme - So 5 times a day he can fire two EBs in a round, and he learns a spell his Wiz/Sor friends learned 5 levels ago? Also, DR/Magic is essentially nothing by this point. The immunities are nice at least.


Ultimately, this just doesn't feel like a Warlock to me. The two biggest hallmarks of the Warlock, I've always felt, are their ancestral connections and their stamina. That is what set them apart from other magic users. This remix does away with both of those, and it's left feeling like a sad version of the Sorcerer, like a partner to the NPC class Adept (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/adept.htm) (they have less, and weaker, resources than a Sorcerer!). Going this route, I feel like you're better off just making a "Warlock" Bloodline option for the Sorcerer that grants Eldritch Blast.

EDIT: Sorry if this came off mean or anything. I didn't mean to be. I think that trying to port the Warlock to Pathfinder is a fine goal, but from what I've seen their sorcerer steals most of the flavor, so all you're really left with is what sets the class apart mechanically, and that is what you happened to strip.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2012-03-21, 07:45 PM
I like it, it's mechanically sound. Have you considered writing some prestige classes or bonus feats for it? One of the halmarks of the 3.5 edition warlock was unique abilities, or low-level spells with nice tweaks.

Master Arminas
2012-03-22, 05:19 PM
Mammon Azrael:

Lot of things, you said, lots of things! Let's get to it:

1. I had not a clue on how to do tables and missed where it was spelled out in the FAQ. Thank you.

2. Yes, I was trying to convey the flavor of the class without resorting to the 3.5's version of it having to be chaotic, evil, and dark. It is narrow, intentionaly, and was meant to provide the player with a handle on being a warlock, as well as the common perceptions that NPCs will have of warlocks. In many respects, the warlock is very similar to the Sorcerer, but not identical. I wanted to try and make that difference known.

3. I'm not really big into 'roles' for character classes; that was only included because each Pathfinder core, base, or alternate class has that section. I belong to the school of thought that players should play what they want: not to fill a specific role or need. So with role, I was attempting to tell folks what I see the warlock is good at being. With hideous blow they can make pretty decent melee characters. But you are right; most warlocks will stay at range and blast.

4. I feel that it is good to remind players of certain rules in the class features text; to prevent someone from misundering how their abilities can and cannot be used. Yes, it is extra text and theoretically wasted. But you would be surprised at how many people forget that supernatural abilities aren't affected by spell resistance, or that a ranged touch attack in Pathfinder provokes an attack of opportunity.

5. In this version of the Warlock, the Invocations are precisely that: what 3.5 called blast shapes and eldritch essences. My apologies on the formating that you had trouble with for the reading; I will attempt to correct it. One of the things that I noticed as a DM (in 3.5) was that many of my fellow DMs had no problem at all with a warlock's eldritch blast: it was their at-will utility invocations that caused problems. By splitting those away, I left the invocations as modifying the eldritch blast, whether its shape or its elemental composistion, or what have you.

6. Spells. This is what were once upon a time all those utility invocations. It's the same spell casting progression as the bard, so yes, you could view it as a sorcerer lite. This still lets the warlock use all of those great utility powers it had, just not all day long. Now, the class something that it needs to manage and husband, while the eldritch blast (being at will) and invocations still allow for all day blasting. On the up side, even though the warlock can't do utility stuff as often anymore, he has a wider range of spells known.

7. Pathfinder has all cantrips for 0-6 and 0-9 caster classes being usable over and over again. I was compliance with the working of existing class formats. One of those little differences between 3.5 and Pathfinder, we mentioned.

8. Cold iron is usable against demons and fae, among others. I wanted to give them DR, but didn't want a barbarian style DR/-. Since alignment or adamantine based DR didn't seem appropriate, it was between cold iron or silver. I choose cold iron; not because of any demonic influence, but because it represents a substance that warlocks have a weakness too.

9. Fast healing on all the time would have a little much, I think. But I wanted to more useful ability than the 3.5 Warlock had with fiendish resilience. I thought I managed to come to a good compromise, but perhaps I need to visit it again.

10. Eldritch aura is an unconscious defensive mechanism of the warlock. It's range is melee (except for reach weapons). It responds to any attack (ranged, reach, whatever) but only affects folks in melee range (5' feet). I kept the damage fairly small, but it scales rapidly; being that it applies to any melee attack (lethal) made against this warlock, I didn't want to go overboard with high levels of damage.

11. I could have started it earlier, but I didn't want to give bonus spells of the warlocks choice too soon. As it is, the warlock will gain one spell of each level 1-6 that he adds to his spells known as warlock spells. And then at 19th and 20th, he adds a 7th and 8th level sorcerer-wizard-witch spell (respectively) as a 6th level warlock spell. I didn't think it was all that wonky, but I will take another look.

12. Using an invocation automatically unleashes an eldritch bolt. So yes, empower invocation is actually empower eldritch bolt. You caught me.

13. Cold iron AND magic. Not cold iron OR magic. It makes a difference.


Ultimately, this just doesn't feel like a Warlock to me. The two biggest hallmarks of the Warlock, I've always felt, are their ancestral connections and their stamina. That is what set them apart from other magic users. This remix does away with both of those, and it's left feeling like a sad version of the Sorcerer, like a partner to the NPC class Adept (they have less, and weaker, resources than a Sorcerer!). Going this route, I feel like you're better off just making a "Warlock" Bloodline option for the Sorcerer that grants Eldritch Blast.

EDIT: Sorry if this came off mean or anything. I didn't mean to be. I think that trying to port the Warlock to Pathfinder is a fine goal, but from what I've seen their sorcerer steals most of the flavor, so all you're really left with is what sets the class apart mechanically, and that is what you happened to strip.

And as I said, this conversion won't be for everyone. It is very off the beaten path and it explores new ideas that don't fit into the paradigm of the 3.5 warlock. I don't really feel it is as bad an an Adept (!), but it isn't in the so-called Tier 1 classes. That isn't a bad thing. A Warlock bloodline might be good, but this class has a higher hit die, medium BAB opposed to low BAB, and it can cast its spells and use its eldritch blast/invocations in armor. Enough, I think, to warrant a different class.

Hey, I asked for an honest review, and you gave. There is nothing to apologize for.

Thank you,

Master Arminas

Master Arminas
2012-03-22, 05:23 PM
I like it, it's mechanically sound. Have you considered writing some prestige classes or bonus feats for it? One of the halmarks of the 3.5 edition warlock was unique abilities, or low-level spells with nice tweaks.

Thank you Tomar of Uointer. No, I haven't done any feats, spells, or prestige classes for this version. Right now, I am just trying to clean up the class itself.

MA

Thomar_of_Uointer
2012-03-22, 05:52 PM
I don't think it's too much like the sorcerer. For one, its save DCs are much lower.

Why don't you let the player pick between cold iron and silver for DR?

Master Arminas
2012-03-22, 06:19 PM
I don't think it's too much like the sorcerer. For one, its save DCs are much lower.

Why don't you let the player pick between cold iron and silver for DR?

Because I didn't think of until you and Mammon A brought it up! :smallbiggrin: But I will adding that in there, giving them a choice between either cold iron or silver.

Master Arminas

APersonAmI
2012-05-02, 02:47 AM
While I do play Pathfinder, I've never played 3.5, and therefore have few preconceptions of the Warlock Class, so this will mostly be a critique of this write up by itself rather than as an adaption of the 3.5 Warlock.

The Invocations:
These bother me, in that they are so very limited in what difference they make. Some are bad, some not bad at all, some utterly broken (Bewitching Blast (Su) is one that simply cannot be allowed to exist. On a made save, they become dazed? The second-best condition to inflict there is, right after death itself? On a spamable ability? When most ways to get rid of it was removed in the transition to Pathfinder?) But all of them have the limitation that you can only apply one at a time, which I dislike. The Rogue, for instance, has a few Tricks that can only used on a sneak attack, clearly marked*. I'd prefer if there were a few invocations that can be active with every Eldritch Blast, such as Eldritch Spear, a few that help with some of the Class's issues, like one that makes Invocations save DC's based of the Warlock's Dexterity, maybe make it so Eldritch Cone and Eldritch Doom can also apply one marked* Evocation, while Hideous Blow can apply two-three marked* Evocations, making it acctually be something worth consideration, and so on.

It's not all complains, thought: I liked Repelling Blast; it's the kind of infuriating, no-immunity possible bull**** that amuse me so.

The Spells:
Ok, from context, you wanted to give this class that has not previously had an spell list one with an average progression, meaning it replaces a pretty major part of the class features the Warlock would otherwise have. Huh. I see no problem there, really, it's a huge change and alters the class greatly, but well implemented it should at least interest some players to try it, while you'll drive away some that liked the original Warlock, probably for the apparent endlessness the class had, that I assume some players loved but many GM's hated? That works. If the spell list does what it is supposed to.
(It does not.)
Look. Average progression spell lists have early entries compared to Good progression spell list, so the character gets the spells iconic to the class about the same time a character with Good progression would, In addition to having a few things on the list a similar caster would not have.
The Bard, for instance, has early entry Enchantment, buff and Illusion spells, they are arcane casters with healing spells available, they have the unique and powerful Good Hope, which is a bit like a Buff-only prayer.
The Summoner has about almost everything arcane he might want as an early entry, in addition to yummy Druid treats like Barkskin and Magic Fang, because that means he'll get his slow/haste spells 1 level before the party wizard and Black Tentacles the same level that the wizard does.
This is how Average progression casters should work. It defines in what way the caster has chosen to delve into his favorite subject, and it also tells us what his favorite interests within magic is.

So, from what I can see, the Warlocks thing is to ruin the fun for everyone else? I can work with that. His early entries might be, for example, mostly Necromancy and Enchantment spells, with a few choice ones from other schools thrown in. Give him Grease, Glitterdust, Hold Person, Invisibility Purge, Reverse Gravity, Silence and Sound Burst, make Dispel magic 2nd level and Greater Dispel 4th, Confusion, Dominate Person, Enervation, Feeblemind, Fear, Flesh to Stone, Hold Monster, Hold Person(Mass), Magic jar, Slow, Stinking Cloud and Suggestion should be at least one level early. Energy Drain and Dominate Monster are his by right, and they should be available at 16th level.
It might even be a good idea to give him a +1 bonus to the DC of all his spells and on his Dispel Checks at 7th and 13th level, the two levels Good progression casters get one more spell level on him.
In short, if the Warlocks thing is to mess things up for others, give him the means to do so. He should have the stuff that makes everyone grind their teeth together, and make him good a using it.

But yeah, I Liked this class, because f*cking **** up is fun, he just needs a bit of polish.