Seerow
2012-03-16, 08:12 PM
I've been running with this more or less for a while, and posted it on another forum, but I just realized I didn't have it posted here.
The basic problem is that attributes don't really scale. A character at 1st level will only be 5 points behind a character at 20th level, not accounting for magic items and buffs. This is pretty pathetic when you consider how drastically different the power levels are supposed to be between 1st and 20th.
On the other hand, just straight up adding attributes doesn't work well either, because it leads to stacking your primary stat to outrageous numbers, and generally allows stacking with all sorts of other things that probably shouldn't be stacked to begin with. The goal here is to reduce magic item dependency, make attribute growth feel more natural, and hopefully help out MAD classes.
So here's how I handle it:
1) Every level you get extra points which may be either saved up to be spent at a later time, or used immediately. At levels 1-5 you gain 1 point per level. At levels 6-10 you gain 2 points per level. At levels 11-15 you gain 3 points per level. At levels 16-20 you gain 4 points per level. Above level 20, you gain 5 points per level.
These points may be used to increase attributes as though using point buy, regardless of the initial stat generation method. Unlike with normal point buy however, you can push an attribute above 18. This continues to follow the normal point buy formula, so going from 18 to 19 costs 4 points. A table with the costs associated with buying up an attribute above 18 can be found at the bottom of this post.
In effect, a level 20 character has whatever his initial stat generation provides him, plus an additional 50 point buy he may use to improve his attributes further. While this can be used to boost a single attribute, there is a clear diminishing returns for doing so, and I would not expect many characters to have many (if any) attributes below 14 base by mid-high level.
2) Starting at level 6, all characters gain a flat +1 enhancement bonus to a single attribute. This enhancement bonus increases by +1 every 2 levels. At level 10, when the first attribute reaches +3, you gain an additional +1 enhancement bonus to one more attribute, which also increases by 1 every 2 levels. At 14th level, you gain a +1 bonus to your other 4 attributes, which increases by +1 every 2 levels. In effect, by level 20 you have +8/+6/+4/+4/+4/+4 to your attributes.
3) Under this system, Inherent bonuses are removed, meaning no wish abuse or tomes to get +5 to all your attributes. Wish may be used to increase the enhancement bonus to your ability scores one step, to a maximum of your primary score's bonus. So at level 20, you could use a Wish to raise the +6 bonus to a +8, but you could not wish for an increase to your +8 attribute. With enough wishes (9 of them) you could end with a +8 enhancement to all attributes rather than the normal progression.
Example Character
Jaichim the Paladin starts his career with 16 Strength, 10 Dexterity, 12 Constitution, 8 Intelligence, 12 Wisdom, and 14 Charisma. (28 pt buy).
By level 20 he has accumulated 50 points to add to this, and upgrades his attributes as follows:
Strength: 16->22 (24 points)
Dex: 10->12 (2 points)
Con: 12->16 (6 points)
Int: 8->14 (6 points)
Wis: 12->14 (2 points)
Cha: 14->18 (10 points)
He then applies his highest bonus to Str, second to Charisma. Giving him:
Str: 30
Dex: 16
Con: 20
Int: 14
Wis: 18
Charisma: 24
By using three Wish spells, he can bring his Charisma up to 26, and his Constitution up to 24. However he would not be able to raise his strength with Wish.
Table for costs of attributes above 18:
{table=head]Attribute | Cost per point | Cost Total
19 | 4 | 20
20 | 4 | 24
21 | 5 | 29
22 | 5 | 34
23 | 6 | 40
24 | 6 | 46
25 | 7 | 53
26 | 7 | 60
27 | 8 | 68
28 | 8 | 76
29 | 9 | 85
30 | 9 | 94
31 | 10 | 104[/table]
Going by this the highest attribute you should be able to get by 20 is 26, which requires an 18 to start, and an investment of 44 out of 50 points over 20 levels.
The basic problem is that attributes don't really scale. A character at 1st level will only be 5 points behind a character at 20th level, not accounting for magic items and buffs. This is pretty pathetic when you consider how drastically different the power levels are supposed to be between 1st and 20th.
On the other hand, just straight up adding attributes doesn't work well either, because it leads to stacking your primary stat to outrageous numbers, and generally allows stacking with all sorts of other things that probably shouldn't be stacked to begin with. The goal here is to reduce magic item dependency, make attribute growth feel more natural, and hopefully help out MAD classes.
So here's how I handle it:
1) Every level you get extra points which may be either saved up to be spent at a later time, or used immediately. At levels 1-5 you gain 1 point per level. At levels 6-10 you gain 2 points per level. At levels 11-15 you gain 3 points per level. At levels 16-20 you gain 4 points per level. Above level 20, you gain 5 points per level.
These points may be used to increase attributes as though using point buy, regardless of the initial stat generation method. Unlike with normal point buy however, you can push an attribute above 18. This continues to follow the normal point buy formula, so going from 18 to 19 costs 4 points. A table with the costs associated with buying up an attribute above 18 can be found at the bottom of this post.
In effect, a level 20 character has whatever his initial stat generation provides him, plus an additional 50 point buy he may use to improve his attributes further. While this can be used to boost a single attribute, there is a clear diminishing returns for doing so, and I would not expect many characters to have many (if any) attributes below 14 base by mid-high level.
2) Starting at level 6, all characters gain a flat +1 enhancement bonus to a single attribute. This enhancement bonus increases by +1 every 2 levels. At level 10, when the first attribute reaches +3, you gain an additional +1 enhancement bonus to one more attribute, which also increases by 1 every 2 levels. At 14th level, you gain a +1 bonus to your other 4 attributes, which increases by +1 every 2 levels. In effect, by level 20 you have +8/+6/+4/+4/+4/+4 to your attributes.
3) Under this system, Inherent bonuses are removed, meaning no wish abuse or tomes to get +5 to all your attributes. Wish may be used to increase the enhancement bonus to your ability scores one step, to a maximum of your primary score's bonus. So at level 20, you could use a Wish to raise the +6 bonus to a +8, but you could not wish for an increase to your +8 attribute. With enough wishes (9 of them) you could end with a +8 enhancement to all attributes rather than the normal progression.
Example Character
Jaichim the Paladin starts his career with 16 Strength, 10 Dexterity, 12 Constitution, 8 Intelligence, 12 Wisdom, and 14 Charisma. (28 pt buy).
By level 20 he has accumulated 50 points to add to this, and upgrades his attributes as follows:
Strength: 16->22 (24 points)
Dex: 10->12 (2 points)
Con: 12->16 (6 points)
Int: 8->14 (6 points)
Wis: 12->14 (2 points)
Cha: 14->18 (10 points)
He then applies his highest bonus to Str, second to Charisma. Giving him:
Str: 30
Dex: 16
Con: 20
Int: 14
Wis: 18
Charisma: 24
By using three Wish spells, he can bring his Charisma up to 26, and his Constitution up to 24. However he would not be able to raise his strength with Wish.
Table for costs of attributes above 18:
{table=head]Attribute | Cost per point | Cost Total
19 | 4 | 20
20 | 4 | 24
21 | 5 | 29
22 | 5 | 34
23 | 6 | 40
24 | 6 | 46
25 | 7 | 53
26 | 7 | 60
27 | 8 | 68
28 | 8 | 76
29 | 9 | 85
30 | 9 | 94
31 | 10 | 104[/table]
Going by this the highest attribute you should be able to get by 20 is 26, which requires an 18 to start, and an investment of 44 out of 50 points over 20 levels.