View Full Version : Opinions, optimize?

Isaac Malus
2012-03-23, 05:06 PM
So I have a friend bringing back an old game for the house and I need help. My character was a bit of a handful. I was an artificer but my friend seems uneasy about the class getting a second run. Now I am down to a few choices. I am thinking of going Druid to Warshaper. OR going Mystic Theurge (Though I have no idea what 2 classes to combine, not a big fan of wizard or cleric.) Can I get some advice? Also some good builds you know for both?

Fouredged Sword
2012-03-23, 05:20 PM
Thurge is normally a trap unless you enter early, at least with as little loss on one side as possible. I would suggest you avoid it. One way in involves the Shi'er (sp?) class from dragon compendium. It can cast both arcane and divine spells so you qualify strait. Dip another divine magic (druid maybe), cleric (free domains, turning abuse), archivist (spell versatility) to allow you to advance it alongside your shi'er and you are golden.

Note you will need to boost diplomacy quite a bit, but you will be a very versatile spellcaster.

I do believe the air/fire/earth/water domain use character level rather than class level. You could be riding an easily replaceable air elemental as low as 8th level if you are a small creature (200ft fly speed please, mount can run without tiring!). Remember to place ranks in ride though.

2012-03-23, 05:24 PM
Well if your friend is worried that your character would be too powerful maybe pull back the power-level a bit.

You could try Favoured Soul/Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge, for example. Lots of options, but not too powerful. Taking the feat Practised Spellcaster could help.

2012-03-23, 05:27 PM
Isaac, how much optimization are you looking for? It seems like your friend's problem with artificers might be an anti-op thing, but it also might not be. How well do you think the rest of your group is going to be optimizing? Because if you're in a low-op game, you can MT pretty much whatever classes you want, but if you're anticipating higher op levels, MT is not going to be worth it without a little cheese.

2012-03-23, 05:32 PM
If you want to go Warshaper, you're probably better off with something like Wild Shape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 5/ Master of Many Forms 7/ Warshaper 4/ WSRanger 1/ MoMF 3. Get Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Leap Attack, Frozen Wild Shape, Robilar's Gambit, and Defensive Sweep.

If you want to go Druid and use a Theurge class, then the Arcane Heirophant from Races of the Wild is probably what you're looking for. The standard build is something like Druid 3/ Wizard 3/ Mystic Theurge 2/ Arcane Heirophant 10/ Mystic Theurge 2, which gets 13th level Wild Shape and 9th level spells in both classes. An alternative that I'm somewhat fond of is Druid 8/ Suel Arcanamach 2/ Arcane Heirophant 10*, using an Elf race to get the necessary proficiencies for Suel Arcanamach. You could stop at Arcane Heirophant 8, and take your other two levels to dip divine casting classes for better benefits, such as Seeker of the Misty Isle and Paragnostic Apostle.

Isaac Malus
2012-03-23, 05:34 PM
There's the thing. I am out in the open alot as my character which means he often notices when I do things but not the other players which had him going. "I don't like that class." I'm looking for a way through feats and whatnot to make something decent. Someone suggested I try to hit MT with Warmage but I dunno. He said it could work seeing as I like to punch something here and there but I just want something fun and new that is magic. They banned tome of battle book of nine swords so no magical martials there. Now I just want to be the magic wielder I was.

Hiro Protagonest
2012-03-23, 05:50 PM
Mystic Theurge is not a trap. It's still tier 2, dammit! Okay, tier 3 if you enter with sorcerer/favored soul.

It's weak, but only when compared with the classes that enter it.

And "ban ToB" probably means the group has never heard of the tier system, and probably thinks of classes in the ancient roles, complete with having all monsters attack the melee only.

Isaac Malus
2012-03-23, 06:02 PM
I could explain why the ToB is banned but I rather not, long process. I like it, but they don't. I tried to show the tier system but it was a lot of reading for them and one took slight offence. I like the Arcane Heirophant, why wouldn't someone take this compared to MT?

Dusk Eclipse
2012-03-23, 06:10 PM
People who don't want Druid casting?:smalltongue:

2012-03-23, 06:29 PM
In addition to the Arcane Hierophant, there's the Green Whisperer, a 5-level Druid/Bard theurge from Dragon 311. I don't see any reason it can't be combo'd with Arcane Hierophant, so maybe consider Bard as the arcane side of the equation.

Isaac Malus
2012-03-23, 06:30 PM
Okay so lets split this now. Arcane Heirophant from druid, how can I make this the most effective for my spellcasting? Master of Many forms? How Can I be a B.A. Shapeshifter?

2012-03-23, 06:58 PM
Okay so lets split this now. Arcane Heirophant from druid, how can I make this the most effective for my spellcasting? Master of Many forms? How Can I be a B.A. Shapeshifter?

If you want the most effective spellcasting, and be a "B.A. Shapeshifter" at the same time, just go Druid 20. It's seriously good enough to just stick with it all the way. Get Natural Bond at 3rd level and pick up a Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3) or a Dire Eagle (RoS) at 4th for your animal companion, and you'll still count your full level toward its benefits. Use Handle Animal to give it the Warbeast template (MM2). Be sure to get Natural Spell at 6th level, and the rest of your feats can be whatever you want.

Isaac Malus
2012-03-23, 07:05 PM
I am the only one with some arcane casting to my knowledge which I actually find somewhat fun. I just thought the MT or AH prestiges looked so awesome. I think I enjoy both types of spellcasting.

Fouredged Sword
2012-03-23, 08:42 PM
AH is not for wildshape characters. Really. Waarshaper looses spellcasting, AH is mostly spellcasting. Do not mix.

AH is a great beastmaster on the other hand. Your pet gets boss fairly quickly. I like a bard / druid who goes into Fochlucan Lyrist can be a lot of fun. Get a ring of evasion to qualify for the class. Acquire familiar qualifies you for AH nicely with a touch of bard. Healing Hymn is great for using bardic music when you don't have much as it scales with your level even if you don't take bard levels. Just make sure you take natural spell and the feat that lets you cast while singing.

I am a bear, who casts spells at you, while I sing at you, and throws bears!

2012-03-23, 09:14 PM
Since MT and AH end before you would hit level 20, you could hit both classes, hitting AH first.