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View Full Version : Summon Monster X? (3.5 Discussion, All Homebrewers Welcome)



NeoSeraphi
2012-03-25, 09:43 AM
So, casting with a spell with a built-in list of options is generally pretty fun. It's like wish, you can choose a different result each time! Keeps the spell fresh and fun.

So, I was thinking about writing an epic spell, summon monster X. Because why not, right? But this spell has to be an epic spell, you know? Has to actually take up a spell slot higher than gate. So it better be really freaking good (and why not? Epic level spells are generally a pain to learn, let alone cast).

Ignoring the ridiculously convoluted rules for making Epic-Level spells for a second, what kinds of monsters should an epic level summoner be bringing to the table?

Any suggestions?

bobthe6th
2012-03-25, 09:48 AM
something worth losing quickened spells for a round. to be reasonable for a wizard to not kill 3 things with celerity...

NeoSeraphi
2012-03-25, 09:53 AM
something worth losing quickened spells for a round. to be reasonable for a wizard to not kill 3 things with celerity...

Yeah, that's a good point. Dropping your swift and immediate actions and focusing on one spell...it had better be a really good spell! Are there any epic-level demons and devils you can summon, other than the archdevils of course. (Though that would be pretty funny. "I summon Asmodeus Himself!" "...Wait, what?")

Cieyrin
2012-03-25, 10:12 AM
Yeah, that's a good point. Dropping your swift and immediate actions and focusing on one spell...it had better be a really good spell! Are there any epic-level demons and devils you can summon, other than the archdevils of course. (Though that would be pretty funny. "I summon Asmodeus Himself!" "...Wait, what?")

You probably want to have a look at Abominations, methinks.

Steward
2012-03-25, 10:24 AM
Yeah, that's a good point. Dropping your swift and immediate actions and focusing on one spell...it had better be a really good spell! Are there any epic-level demons and devils you can summon, other than the archdevils of course. (Though that would be pretty funny. "I summon Asmodeus Himself!" "...Wait, what?")

Maybe not the demons themselves, but how about an Aspect? Fiendish Codices I and II feature Aspects of the demon princes and archdevils, which can fit flavor-wise and mechanically. Abominations are also pretty awesome.

For non-evil spellcasters, you can add Primal Elementals (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/elementalPrimal.htm) and Devastation Vermin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/devastationVermin.htm).

pffh
2012-03-25, 10:33 AM
How about making it scale with caster level. The higher the caster level the more powerful creatures you can summon.

NeoSeraphi
2012-03-25, 10:35 AM
How about making it scale with caster level. The higher the caster level the more powerful creatures you can summon.

That is just begging for greater consumptive field abuse though.

pffh
2012-03-25, 10:36 AM
That is just begging for greater consumptive field abuse though.

Eh it's epic it's not like the game hasn't broken down and started crying in a corner already. Besides is that any different then using mitigation to lower the dc of any epic spell to a pitiful level.

NeoSeraphi
2012-03-25, 10:49 AM
Eh it's epic it's not like the game hasn't broken down and started crying in a corner already. Besides is that any different then using mitigation to lower the dc of any epic spell to a pitiful level.

Good point. So, how about being able to summon a creature whose CR is equal to your caster level+5?

Garryl
2012-03-25, 10:59 AM
I have trouble conceiving of a spell that would summon more powerful monsters than Gate + Reserves of Strength without just saying that you win the encounter by summoning your enemy + 1.

Steward
2012-03-25, 11:39 AM
I have trouble conceiving of a spell that would summon more powerful monsters than Gate + Reserves of Strength without just saying that you win the encounter by summoning your enemy + 1.

Good point. I think your best bet would be to have a limited selection (as the other Summon Monster _), a limited duration, a longer casting time, and give the player the option of summoning multiple creatures from lower level lists or a single creature from the X list. You would have to be careful when selecting monsters to make sure that they scale appropriately from Summon Monster IX. (Though a credible case can be made that, at epic levels, nothing meaningfully scales any more and you could theoretically summon anything you wanted and the game wouldn't be more broken.)