Help Me Modify the Dragonlance Wizard of High Sorcery PrC (Thread Closed)

[NeoSeraphi]

I'm playing a wizard in the Dragonlance campaign setting (but with Pathfinder rules), and I just passed my test to become a true wizard. I am no longer an apprentice, and am now a Black Robe wizard, and I have the option of entering the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class.

This is relevant because no other 3.5 material is allowed. It's either this PrC, or more levels of wizard, basically.

The problem is that the class is terrible for my school of specialization (Enchantment). Enchanters must be Black Robes, but the class offers no abilities that boost enchantment magic for some reason.

Here is an example of a Black Robe ability (Hopefully, one example isn't enough for me to get yelled at, but just to be clear, this is WotC material. I did not write this.)

Magic of Betrayal: Once per day for every two class levels attained, a Black Robe wizard who knows this secret may Empower or Extend any necromancy spell she casts. The spell functions as though she had applied the appropriate metamagic feat, but does not use a higher-level spell slot. When she does so, a backlash of negative energy deals 2d6 points of damage to a single living ally within 30 feet, chosen by the wizard (who may not choose an undead ally, who would benefit from the negative energy). The ally is allowed a Will save (DC 10 + one-half caster level + Intelligence modifier) for half damage.


Now, I submitted a few of my own ideas, based on the vampire's Dominate ability, the nymph's Blinding Beauty ability, the halt spell from PHB II, and some other stuff. My DM took those abilities and dropped four of the six completely, nerfing the other two, and here's what I've got now.

Magic of Empowered Slavery: Once per day per 2 class levels (minimum 1/day), a Black Robe wizard may imbue a character he has successfully affected with a (Compulsion) spell with a haste effect. This does not stack with itself or the haste spell, and the Black Robe is slowed for the duration of the spell.

Magic of the Playful Nymph: As a standard action, a Black Robe wizard may project an aura of Blinding Beauty. Creatures within 30 feet who can see the Black Robe wizard (including his allies) must make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 character level+Int) or be blinded for 1d4 rounds. A successful save renders the creature immune to this effect for 24 hours. The aura lasts as long as the Black Robe continues to concentrate on it (a standard action each round).

So, as you can probably guess, I'm not happy about this. I want to play a specialist enchanter. Emphasis on the word special. As a PF wizard, I would actually be giving up the Irresistible Demand class feature to enter this PrC at 6th, so I feel like I should get some decent abilities. He's worried about me breaking the game and overshadowing the party though. (Personally, I think that's an unavoidable issue. Even in PF I'm a wizard in a party of melee characters).

So help me out, please, Playground! Give me some awesome enchantment ideas that will help flavor my character. He's a domination specialist, so I'm more partial to Compulsion-flavored abilities than Charm. I do not want any SLAs. SLAs are useless to me, I have plenty of spell slots for that stuff. I want cool enchantment abilities that are supernatural and can't be duplicated by a spell. Any ideas?

[DonQuixote]

Dragonlance! :smallbiggrin:

Now, I'm not too familiar with Pathfinder, but one thing that sticks out in terms of the idea of an enchantment specialist would be to steal adapt the Fiend's Favor and Temptation abilities from the Fiend of Corruption (Fiend Folio.)

I'll be able to get more ideas out when I'm not sneaking onto the internet during lecture.

Edit: More thoughts--I can't actually check on anything, so this is all off the top of my head--but it might be interesting to play with some of the fear effects from the Dread Witch (Heroes of Horror) and the Nightmare Spinner (Complete Mage) and combine them with compulsion aspects. Basically, you can dominate someone for a short time by terrifying the hell out of them. If you built it such that they were allowed several saves before becoming dominated (Will save or shaken, Will save or panicked, Will save or dominated) and played with the duration of the domination, it might soften the DM's knee-jerk reaction to the situation.

I'm not sure if it's quite right, though.

Alternatively, you might go the Fistandantilus route and dominate people through a magic jar-like effect.

[Mulletmanalive]

Magic of Empowered Slavery: Once per day per 2 class levels (minimum 1/day), a Black Robe wizard may imbue a character he has successfully affected with a (Compulsion) spell with a haste effect. This does not stack with itself or the haste spell, and the Black Robe is slowed for the duration of the spell.
This is pretty good, but I'd amend it to allow you to quicken a single (Harmless) spell cast on the target with a maximum level of 3. I can easier see a black casting that spell from Ultimate Magic that grants a target the Fiendish template than haste, for instance.


Magic of the Playful Nymph: As a standard action, a Black Robe wizard may project an aura of Blinding Beauty. Creatures within 30 feet who can see the Black Robe wizard (including his allies) must make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 character level+Int) or be [i]blinded for 1d4 rounds. A successful save renders the creature immune to this effect for 24 hours. The aura lasts as long as the Black Robe continues to concentrate on it (a standard action each round).
This actually feels more like a White ability, or perhaps a Red, in a strict Dragonlance game.


He's worried about me breaking the game and overshadowing the party though. (Personally, I think that's an unavoidable issue. Even in PF I'm a wizard in a party of melee characters).


You make it sound almost like you're going to be rubbing it in their faces all the time :smallconfused:

How about the ability to inverse the effects of a [Charm] spell, using it to charm people against their allies, breeding distrust? I can't remember if there are many other (Charm) spells other than Charm Person/Monster but still.

The ability to convert one emotion manipulation spell into another of equal or lesser level?

The ability to cast Suggestion spells with only a small gesture of the hand [effectively lacking vocal and somatic components]?

[NeoSeraphi]

This is pretty good, but I'd amend it to allow you to quicken a single (Harmless) spell cast on the target with a maximum level of 3. I can easier see a black casting that spell from Ultimate Magic that grants a target the [I]Fiendish template than haste, for instance.

I originally had it bestowing a heroism effect on the target, that stacked with the actual heroism spell. The DM changed it to haste/slow, which I hate because it's a transmutation effect that is completely missing the point of being a powerful enchanter, but whatever. This one and the other are set in stone because the DM fixed them himself.



This actually feels more like a White ability, or perhaps a Red, in a strict Dragonlance game.


White is Abjuration/Divination. Red is Transmutation/Illusion. The nymph's Blinding Beauty is based on the spell blindness, which is Necromancy. Falls under the Black Robes' domain.



You make it sound almost like you're going to be rubbing it in their faces all the time :smallconfused:


I'm not planning to. My character is arrogant after his transformation, and rightly so, because he spent the last two four hour sessions completely devoid of his spellbook because I missed a session and the DM had my character taken captive without asking me first and they removed all my possessions, including my spellbook. I was allowed to keep two pages stashed somewhere, but otherwise I was powerless. And so the other players have all been tormenting me Out of Character, teasing me about how I'm pretty much useless. So yeah, I don't really see the need to keep holding back at this point (I mean, I did choose to be an enchanter instead of a transmuter or a conjurer after all), especially if the DM is going to fight my attempts to properly flavor this stupid prestige class.



How about the ability to inverse the effects of a [Charm] spell, using it to charm people against their allies, breeding distrust? I can't remember if there are many other (Charm) spells other than Charm Person/Monster but still.


How is that any different than just dominating or suggesting to them to turn on or attack their allies?



The ability to convert one emotion manipulation spell into another of equal or lesser level?


I don't know how many of those there are on the PF spell list. It's pretty limited and I'm not allowed any other sources. I suppose if there were enough of them it might be useful (depending on the spells themselves. I have quite a few daily spell slots after all, I might just prepare them all anyway).



The ability to cast Suggestion spells with only a small gesture of the hand [effectively lacking vocal and somatic components]?

I already suggested this and it was denied. The exact wording of the ability was something to the effect of "You may cast spells with the (Compulsion) descriptor as a gaze attack. This removes the somatic and verbal components of the spell, but changes its range to 30 feet and only affects a creature who can see you. The casting time of the spell does not change." I was pretty sad he didn't let it fly, too. I thought vampire-flavored abilities would work well with a black robe.

[Mulletmanalive]

I originally had it bestowing a heroism effect on the target, that stacked with the actual heroism spell. The DM changed it to haste/slow, which I hate because it's a transmutation effect that is completely missing the point of being a powerful enchanter, but whatever. This one and the other are set in stone because the DM fixed them himself.



White is Abjuration/Divination. Red is Transmutation/Illusion. The nymph's Blinding Beauty is based on the spell blindness, which is Necromancy. Falls under the Black Robes' domain.



I'm not planning to. My character is arrogant after his transformation, and rightly so, because he spent the last two four hour sessions completely devoid of his spellbook because I missed a session and the DM had my character taken captive without asking me first and they removed all my possessions, including my spellbook. I was allowed to keep two pages stashed somewhere, but otherwise I was powerless. And so the other players have all been tormenting me Out of Character, teasing me about how I'm pretty much useless. So yeah, I don't really see the need to keep holding back at this point (I mean, I did choose to be an enchanter instead of a transmuter or a conjurer after all), especially if the DM is going to fight my attempts to properly flavor this stupid prestige class.



How is that any different than just dominating or suggesting to them to turn on or attack their allies?



I don't know how many of those there are on the PF spell list. It's pretty limited and I'm not allowed any other sources. I suppose if there were enough of them it might be useful (depending on the spells themselves. I have quite a few daily spell slots after all, I might just prepare them all anyway).



I already suggested this and it was denied. The exact wording of the ability was something to the effect of "You may cast spells with the (Compulsion) descriptor as a gaze attack. This removes the somatic and verbal components of the spell, but changes its range to 30 feet and only affects a creature who can see you. The casting time of the spell does not change." I was pretty sad he didn't let it fly, too. I thought vampire-flavored abilities would work well with a black robe.

Yeah, gotta agree that haste rather than heroism makes little sense. Especially because Heroism would probably be less destructive in the long run...

The point of the charm one was that the effect would simply make them distrust their allies [the Hostile opinion not actually having any aggression attached to it]. This would make, say, flanking with them impossible and so on.

There are a fair few emotion manipulators on the spell list, at least considering i have the four core books with spells in them.

Level 1 - Delusional PrideUM
Level 2 - Compassionate AllyUM, Hideous LaughterCRB, Oppressive Boredom, Unnatural LustUM
Level 3 - HeroismCRB, RageCRB, Reckless InfatuationUM, Unadulterated LoathingUM
Level 4 - Crushing DespairCRB, Malicious SpiteUM, Overwhelming GriefUM, Terrible RemorseUM
Level 5 - Smug NarcisismUM
Level 6 - Envious UrgeUM, SerenityUM, Utter ContemptUM, Vengeful OutrageUM
Level 9 - AntipathyCRB, Euphoric TranquilityCRB, SympathyCRB
Level 9 - Heroic InvocationUM, Overwhelming PresenceUM

You obviously have APG in play, so i assume Ultimate Magic is fair game too.

Given the fluff on Suggestion, i'd always assumed it was compulsion [never really cared beyond that it was Mind-effecting]

[NeoSeraphi]

The point of the charm one was that the effect would simply make them distrust their allies [the Hostile opinion not actually having any aggression attached to it]. This would make, say, flanking with them impossible and so on.

Doesn't seem to be that useful, to be honest. If I'm going to use a standard action to force a Will save or mess with someone's head, I'd rather do it with suggestion or dominate.



There are a fair few emotion manipulators on the spell list, at least considering i have the four core books with spells in them.

Level 1 - Delusional PrideUM
Level 2 - Compassionate AllyUM, Hideous LaughterCRB, Oppressive Boredom, Unnatural LustUM
Level 3 - HeroismCRB, RageCRB, Reckless InfatuationUM, Unadulterated LoathingUM
Level 4 - Crushing DespairCRB, Malicious SpiteUM, Overwhelming GriefUM, Terrible RemorseUM
Level 5 - Smug NarcisismUM
Level 6 - Envious UrgeUM, SerenityUM, Utter ContemptUM, Vengeful OutrageUM
Level 9 - AntipathyCRB, Euphoric TranquilityCRB, SympathyCRB
Level 9 - Heroic InvocationUM, Overwhelming PresenceUM

You obviously have APG in play, so i assume Ultimate Magic is fair game too.

Yes, UM is fine, but still. The ideas I'm looking for are more about flavorful and unique enchantment class features, like special attacks that involve compulsions in ways that printed spells do not, not turning my character into a sorcerer.



Given the fluff on Suggestion, i'd always assumed it was compulsion [never really cared beyond that it was Mind-effecting]

Suggestion is indeed a Compulsion effect. That's why I said that the idea had already been denied, suggestion was one of the spells I would have been able to cast with a Gaze attack.

[Mulletmanalive]

Freudian slip there...

Should have read "i always assumed Suggeston was a Charm effect"

based on how it's supposed to be making your words seem reasonable and incredibly inviting in the flavour text.

[NeoSeraphi]

Freudian slip there...

Should have read "i always assumed Suggeston was a Charm effect"

based on how it's supposed to be making your words seem reasonable and incredibly inviting in the flavour text.

Ah. Nah. Fluff or not, the spell forces you to do something if your opponent fails their save. Gives you direct control over the character. That is (Compulsion).

There are really very few (Charm) effects out there. All the best enchantments (Entice gift, heroism, dominate monster, geas/quest, mind fog, sleep, deep slumber) are (Compulsion) spells.

[DonQuixote]

You could make your enchantments more potent? Things like not giving subjects of your (Compulsion) spells a bonus on their saves due to being forced to do things against their nature.

Alternatively, the ability to combine Enchantment effects into a single spell, like the Linked Power [Metapsionic] feat? If they fall victim to one compulsion, they then feel the tug of a second.

[NeoSeraphi]

You could make your enchantments more potent? Things like not giving subjects of your (Compulsion) spells a bonus on their saves due to being forced to do things against their nature.

Alternatively, the ability to combine Enchantment effects into a single spell, like the Linked Power [Metapsionic] feat? If they fall victim to one compulsion, they then feel the tug of a second.

No no no. I don't want any alterations to my casting, I want some kind of supernatural special attacks that cannot be replicated with spellcasting. I want to be some kind of enchantment user, not just a caster. Like a witch or a nymph, you know? Someone who can manipulate minds without spellcasting, in small, interesting ways.

My spellcasting is good enough, it doesn't need to be altered any, and if I did alter it, I would just feel more like a normal wizard. I would give an example, but if I could think of any I wouldn't have started the thread.

Hmm...um...something like being able to, as an immediate action, look a creature in the eye and force them to make a Will save or lose their action because of my hypnotic gaze. Stuff like that.

[DonQuixote]

Hrm. Just to get the old noggin' working, mind posting the ideas that the DM shot down? Just to get a better feel for what you desire.

[NeoSeraphi]

Okay.

Magic of the Seductive Vampire: Once per day per two class levels, you may cast any spell you know with the (Compulsion) subschool as a gaze attack. This removes all verbal and somatic components from the spell, but limits its range to 30 feet and requires the creature to be able to see you. This ability does not change the casting time of the spell. (Based on the vampire's Dominate ability)

Magic of the Playful Nymph: Once per day per two class levels, you may project an aura of Blinding Beauty as a move action. All creatures within 30 feet must make a Will save (DC 10+1/2 character level+Int mod) or be blinded for one minute. A creature who succeeds its save cannot be affected by the same ability for 24 hours. This aura lasts for 1 round per class level. (Based on the Nymph's Blinding Beauty ability)

The others I submitted were just changes to casting and that kind of thing. I didn't really want them, but they were better than nothing.

[chando]

remove the gaze attack bit, just give Silent Spell and still spell instead.

Magic of the Silent Killer: Once per day for every two class levels attained, a Black Robe wizard who knows this secret may cast any Necromancy or Enchantment spell as if modified by the Silent Spell and Still Spell metamagic feats. The spell functions as though she had applied the appropriate metamagic feats, but does not use a higher-level spell slot.
considering how silent and still spell are weaker than empower or extend most of the times, you could get this to fly off without having a backlash effect. Otherwise just add a backlash effect similar to the betrayel one.

just some ideas, that need word revisions and maybe some tweking:

Magic of the Deceptive Mind: Whenever you target someone with a enchantment effect, you may opt to erease the sight of you from his mind. Regardless of the effect of the spell, the target treats you as if you were invisible to him for a number of rounds equal to the spell level.

Magic of the Puppet Master: Whenever you target someone with an enchantment spell, you may force the target to move a number of squares euqal to your Charisma, regardless if friend or foe. This movement provokes Attacks of Opportunity as normal. The target or targets of this effect may choose to resist it, by making a will save (DC based of the spell being cast?)
There, a controling ability fittng of a Black Robe, the "backlash" is that allies may get hurt by AoO when you force them to move into better position, but so can enemies.

Magic of the Witches Tongue: The Black Robe wizard gains a bonus to Charisma based skill checks equal to his level. Additionally, once per day for every two class levels attained, a Black Robe wizard who knows this secret may attempt a Bluff, Intimidate or Diplomacy check as a swift action, regardless of the action normally required to do the check.
(so, demoralize or lie or change target attitude as a swift action, basically)
If the skills are not already on the list, add the three skills to the class skill list as well.

maybe steal a bit from the begulier as well and give something similar to surprised casting to boost DC and caster level. not sure if the class doesn't already boost DC/CL, away from books.

[NeoSeraphi]

Never mind. The party, in-character, kicked my character out for being a Black Robe (Evil)), even though I was acting the same as always. So I had to roll up a new one. :smallannoyed::smallsigh: