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dragonsamurai77
2012-03-29, 07:04 PM
This is technically homebrew for a tabletop game, so I assume it belongs here, but mods, please move if needed.

{table]C|G|E|Z|D|K|Z|E|G|C
-|-|O|B|N|N|B|O|-|-
F|F|F|W|S|S|W|F|F|F
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
F|F|F|W|S|S|W|F|F|F
-|-|O|B|N|N|B|O|-|-
C|G|E|Z|D|K|Z|E|G|C[/table]

K = King
Same as the chess or shogi king, moves 1 square in any direction
Cannot promote
If it is attacked and cannot escape, you lose. (checkmate)

D = Dragon
Same as promoted rook in shogi, moves any number of unblocked squares orthogonally or one square diagonally
Promotes into Emperor Dragon, now can move any number of diagonal squares (chess queen)

Z = Wizard
Moves up to two squares in any direction, can jump over other pieces
Promotes into Archmage, which can move up to three squares, still jumping

E = Elf
Same as shogi bishop, moves any number of squares diagonally, once promoted to Ranger, can instead move one square orthogonally.

G = Golem
Moves 1 square in any direction or any number of squares forward.
Promotes into Colossus, which can move up to three squares horizontally or backwards.

C = Champion
Identical to chess/shogi rook, moves any number of squares in an orthogonal direction. When promoted to Legend, can also move one square diagonally forward (but not backwards).

O = Ogre
Moves one square in any direction

B = Goblin
Like shogi lance, moves any number of squares forward

N = Knight
Like chess knight, jumps two squares orthogonally, then one perpendicular

The Ogre, Goblin, and Knight all promote to the Hero, who combines the powers of the Ogre and Knight.

S = Samurai
Moves one square forward or diagonally forward

W = Dwarf
Moves one square forward or horizontally

F = Foot Soldier
Moves one square forward, captures straight forward as in shogi rather than diagonally as in chess.

The Samurai, Dwarf, and Foot Soldier all promote into one of the shogi generals:
Gold General: One square orthogonally or diagonally forward
Silver General: One square diagonally or forward

Promotion occurs only when a piece reaches the absolute end of the board.

Gillric
2012-03-30, 02:03 PM
you seem to have missed w in your list

dragonsamurai77
2012-03-30, 02:30 PM
you seem to have missed w in your list

W is Dwarf, I put D by mistake. Fixed.

dragonsamurai77
2012-04-01, 10:33 PM
No thoughts on this at all?

Brennan1214
2012-04-02, 07:28 PM
How do you promote a unit?

araveugnitsuga
2012-04-02, 07:41 PM
From the get go, there will be a lack of space, you have twice the mobile pieces of chess with around 10% less empty space, you'll have a very volatile opening game since captures will be a must due to there being actually little place to move to, it will be chaotic since there's so many possibilities, also, since everything moves a lot, most of chess strategy will go down the drain, there aren't even proper pawns, just 6 pseudo pawns.

Also, there are so many move patterns that each turn will either take a while or be rushed, it also isn't easy to pick up and play. Finally, it depends on knowledge of both Shogi and Chess, and sadly, it isn't possible to play successfully with either mindset.

Its way too complicated for a vs. boardgame, specially when the parent board games are rather simple by themselves.

dragonsamurai77
2012-04-02, 07:54 PM
How do you promote a unit?

As in regular chess, you must reach the last rank, but every piece except for the king is capable of promotion


From the get go, there will be a lack of space, you have twice the mobile pieces of chess with around 10% less empty space, you'll have a very volatile opening game since captures will be a must due to there being actually little place to move to, it will be chaotic since there's so many possibilities, also, since everything moves a lot, most of chess strategy will go down the drain, there aren't even proper pawns, just 6 pseudo pawns.

Hmm... change the pawns? Widen the board?

Also, there are so many move patterns that each turn will either take a while or be rushed, it also isn't easy to pick up and play. Finally, it depends on knowledge of both Shogi and Chess, and sadly, it isn't possible to play successfully with either mindset.

I haven't gotten a chance to actually test this yet, so I can't know for sure, but you may be right.

Its way too complicated for a vs. boardgame, specially when the parent board games are rather simple by themselves.

I was going for more complicated, but I guess I took it a little too far.

araveugnitsuga
2012-04-02, 08:29 PM
Hmm... change the pawns? Widen the board?
A bigger board might work, but there's a reason it's a square in the first place. Extending it in only one direction hurts some pieces a lot more than others, and one of the first things you need is some balance.

Chess for example is pretty balanced, despite numerical score saying otherwise. There are clear balancing factors and order of importance in relation to board crowdedness, shogi operates on a more orderly principle, where movement forward is a constant, this movement in turn gives each of the mobile pieces an advantage and a disadvantage.

Balance between pieces, either through number restrictions (right now, there being only pairs, and no expendable unit for terrain control (pawns and their shogi equivalents)) or through some diversification, you've got almost no diagonal control despite the bigger board requiring more horizontal movement.

I'd say make a row of expendable same movement units, when you've got special movement ones (despite limited in that way), the numeric over tactical mindset kicks in.


I haven't gotten a chance to actually test this yet, so I can't know for sure, but you may be right.
Testing should give you the fastest track to seeing where things get troublesome. As of now, I think players would be reduced to using primary pieces they understand, limiting the game from being fully played. That and carnage on the first few moves.

I was going for more complicated, but I guess I took it a little too far.
I think you have way too many limited movement pieces, which while interesting, will be more hassle than tactically innovating.

Larkas
2012-04-02, 08:57 PM
On the subject of wider chess boards, you might want to check on these historical chess precursors/variants:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamerlane_chess

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courier_chess

Actually, a lot can be learned from chess precursors when homebrewing something for it. Myself, I would love to try and play a game of shatranj:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatranj

It looks like a game with much more variety, at the price of being quite slower.

Also, maybe this can be of some help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy_chess_piece

And something I would like to try, but unfortunately can't find for sale:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knightmare_Chess

Anyways, go wild, but don't make too many changes without playtesting each one of them first. This way, you can feel what does and doesn't work, and revert or adjust something gamebreaking more easily.