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View Full Version : [3.5 Magic System] Using Spellcraft to Craft Spells!



RMS Oceanic
2012-04-04, 05:48 AM
Did you ever want a Magic System that is a hybrid of Epic Spells and Truenaming? Too bad, you're getting it anyway!

The idea behind this is Flexibility. I was looking at the seeds for Epic Spells and thought "wouldn't it be great if you could adjust these things on the fly rather than lock them into a painfully expensive spell?" Well here's my chance!

Skill: Spellcraft (Int) [Trained Only]
In order to cast any spells, a spellcaster must make a Spellcraft check. The DC is 10 + the spell seed + the shape seed + any factors. The caster cannot attempt a Spellcraft check with DC greater than 15+Caster Level. The caster must declare what DC he is attempting to make before making the check. A caster can take 10 on this check. For each spell successfully cast, the caster gains a cumulative penalty on every other spell cast that day. By spending eight hours sleeping or resting they can eliminate this penalty and start anew. The penalties look like so:

{table=head] Spell Seed Level | Penalty
0th | 0 |
1st | -1 |
2nd | -1 |
3rd | -1 |
4th | -2 |
5th | -2 |
6th | -2 |
7th | -3 |
8th | -3 |
9th | -3 |
[/table]

Other factors
{table=head] Factor | Modified DC
Raise Save DC | +2 per +1 DC |
Raise Spell Resistance | +1 per +1 on check |
Extend | +2 |
Still | +3 |
Silent | + 3 |
Empower | +4 |
Maximize | +6 |
Reduce Casting Time* | +2 |
Cast as a Swift Action** | +8 |
Use an expensive material component | -1 per (Seed Spell Level * 100) GP value |
Use an expensive focus | -1 per 5,000 GP value |
Deals nonlethal damage (must deal damage to take) | -2 |
Take an additional penalty to future spellcraft checks that day | -1 per -1 penalty***[/table]

*One hour -> Ten minutes, Ten Minutes -> One Minute, One Minute -> Full Round Action, Full Round Action -> Standard Action. Applying this factor multiple times stack.
** Must take a standard action or less to cast.
***Penalty cannot exceed the Seed Spell Level

And then here are some sample seeds.

Energy, Lesser (Wiz/Sor 1, Cleric 1)
Evocation [Acid, Fire, Electricity, Cold, Or Sonic]
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Ray
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
The caster chooses an energy type. He fires a ray and makes a ranged touch attack. On a successful attack the target takes 1d6 damage of that energy type. To add another 1d6 damage, raise the Spellcraft DC by 1 (maximum 5d6).
Shape Seeds: Burst, Line, Cone

Energy (Wiz/Sor 3)
Evocation [Acid, Fire, Electricity, Cold, Or Sonic]
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
As Lesser Energy except where noted, and the maximum damage cap is 10d6.
Shape Seeds: Burst, Line, Cone

Burst (Wiz/Sor 2)
Shape Seed
Effect: 10 foot radius spread
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Burst affects the Spell Seed it is applied to by making the following changes where appropriate. To increase the radius by an additional 10 foot, increase the Spellcraft DC by +4.

Cure (Clr 1)
Conjuration [Healing]
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text
The target is healed of 1d8+1/caster level damage (max +5). By raising the Spellcraft DC by 2, add another 1d8 and increast the damage cap by 5 (maximum 4d8+20).
Seed Shapes: Mass
Restore (Clr 3)
Conjuration [Healing]
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text
This spell can remove all ability damage from one ability score, but not ability drain. For each additional ability score healed this way, increase the DC by +2.

This spell can also dispell negative levels and restore levels drained, as long as the level was lost within 1 day per caster level. For each day beond this time limit the caster level was lost, increase the DC by +1.
Seed Shapes: Mass
Optional Material Components: Diamonds

Mass (Wiz/Sor 4, Clr 3)
Shape Seed
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: Two creatures within 30 feet of each other.
The Mass Shape Seed mostly affects spells with a range of touch, allowing two creatures to gain the effects of the spell. For each additional target, increase the DC by +1, to a maximum of the caster level. All targets must be within 30 feet of each other.

So that's my poorly thought out prototype magic system. The basic gist for the seeds is that Wizards would gain more spell seeds, while Sorcerers would gain more shape seeds and have a bonus to their Spellcraft checks to reflect the fact they can cast more spells in a day. What do you think?

Kobold-Bard
2012-04-04, 10:14 AM
Did you ever want a Magic System that is a hybrid of Epic Spells and Truenaming? Too bad, you're getting it anyway!

...

Ha, the joke's on you, I do want something exactly like that.

His is intriguing, not least because I was planning to do something like this a while ago but was too lazy to actually finish. When I get home I may attempt to critique it, though I can't promise anythig I post will be of any use.

Xechon
2012-04-04, 12:08 PM
I've actually also been thinking of something similar. You've got a good idea, but I have a few suggestions.

Firstly, and probably the most obvious: If you can get this to work well in D&D, you deserve a medal. This is how magic should be (see below, however), but D&D just wont handle it, alongside every other broken rule... I mean the rest of the system. Not meant to discourage, but this also means you can mod other parts of it too, and something like this might work really well in GURPS (never actually seen the magic system in GURPS, but I should be getting it soon, and I've read 4e Lite)

Second, you shouldn't need to limit max spell DC for a caster. Just don't offer many (or any) options for raising CL, and give some sort of penalty for failing a spell, like temporary shock, spell-taint, random effects table, or fatigue. This way a caster will stick to the easy stuff to avoid dire consequences for failure, but can still pull out a big gun semi-reliably when needed.

Thirdly, more True Sorcery please. Instead of your spells like energy and cure, go more like burst and mass, then add an energy type with another spell "part", and effects, etc. Maybe even throw in skill checks for mundane equivalents so that your magic doesn't end up broken like 3.5e's. An example of this would be:

Fireball-
Range Seed-30'
Type Seed- Fire
Form Seed- Straight Directional
Effect Seed- Burst

So the entire spell would be of a DC equal to the whole of all parts, and the damage scales with the amount of energy you put into the attack.

You could apply multiple Type or Effect seeds to the spell, and maybe require a flammable substance as a material cost for the fire effect, a staff focus could give increased range, etc.

Sorry, went overboard with my own ideas:smallredface:. Hope this helped.

Kobold-Bard
2012-04-06, 10:03 AM
... The DC is 10 + the spell seed + the shape seed + any factors. ...

Does spell seed = the Epic Spell Seed base DC? If so maybe list them just for convenience.
What would you suggest for the shape seed increases?
And how would you determine what level a particular spell is, is there a mechanic, or is it up to DM adjudication?

I was going to try making a few spells to see how this went, so I'm curious.

RMS Oceanic
2012-04-06, 12:44 PM
Does spell seed = the Epic Spell Seed base DC? If so maybe list them just for convenience.
What would you suggest for the shape seed increases?
And how would you determine what level a particular spell is, is there a mechanic, or is it up to DM adjudication?

I was going to try making a few spells to see how this went, so I'm curious.

Spell seed is whatever spell level the seed is for that caster. Energy is a Wiz/Sor 3 seed, so you'd add 3 to the DC, plus another 2 if you wanted to apply the Burst seed to it, and maybe another 3 if you wanted to deal another 3d6 damage, for a Spellcraft DC of 18.

I'm putting some more thought into this.

Madara
2012-04-06, 05:32 PM
I like it.

Possible seeds that need adding:

Summoning(Increase the DC based on the number of creatures)
Creation(Creating material, like minor/major creation)
Control(Including spells like charm person and actual control spells like from Animate Dead, probably base DC off HD)





Thirdly, more True Sorcery please. Instead of your spells like energy and cure, go more like burst and mass, then add an energy type with another spell "part", and effects, etc. Maybe even throw in skill checks for mundane equivalents so that your magic doesn't end up broken like 3.5e's. An example of this would be:

Fireball-
Range Seed-30'
Type Seed- Fire
Form Seed- Straight Directional
Effect Seed- Burst

So the entire spell would be of a DC equal to the whole of all parts, and the damage scales with the amount of energy you put into the attack.


This is what I am thinking more along the lines of when I hear Spell Seeds

DonQuixote
2012-04-06, 05:48 PM
The general problem with something like this, as I see it, is that it runs into a situation where you can only have SOME of what you want.

Go pick up Sandstorm. Look at the epic spell volcano. Huzzah! An epic spell that makes volcanoes.

However, where does this spell come from? It comes from the conjure and energy seeds, with some modifications. At no point do these--in terms of the actual rules--add up to "You made a volcano!" Heck, the spell doesn't even describe what a volcano would do--it just says that you make one.

Look at things like avascular mass. There are some pretty complex spells out there! Can you model them effectively?

Eventually, you run into the problem. Do you allow only a small number of actual options? Do you spend months writing different seeds and modifications, allowing an incredible range of variable at the cost of increased complexity and incredible density of material? Or do you rely on the DM to review every proposed "spell" before session?

None of these are very good options--though I personally would lean towards option two. Option one is frustrating because the system looks more versatile, but actually has less variety than Vancian casting. Option two is great for those who use the material, but absolute hell on those who write it. And option three is good for nobody--the DM has to do extra work, the players have to submit more concepts than they actually want in case ideas get shot down, and there's no ability to craft magic on the fly.


I'm not trying to dissuade you from this project, of course. I actually really like the idea of crafting spells as you go along. I'm just trying to bring up these issues now, rather than later, so that you can decide how to approach them.

(Seriously, though, as much as I love the idea of creating volcanoes, I still can't figure out how someone would think of putting the seeds together like that and getting volcano out of it.)