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Morithias
2012-04-09, 02:14 AM
Recently I have been talking to my friend about a campaign he plans to run where my character is going to be an evil queen who seeks to rule the world...however there is one part of her backstory I'm having trouble, and I'm debating about with myself.

So far this is her main backstory.

When Patrica's father died just before her 18th birthday, bequeathing his multi-million gold piece fortune and empire to her, it would have been easy for her to conform to the traditional young heiress template, frittering the money away on wining, dining, and generally living the high life. Despite being spoiled rotten, however, Patrica was also highly motivated and intelligent, with a sharp awareness of the way the world worked. Her hard work and piercing intellect saw her take the helm of her father's empire with ease.

Patrica was not without vices, however. Years of being daddy's little princess gave her a colossal ego and a need for constant adoration. After a brief moment of contentment, the sycophantic praise she received from the flunkies in her castle was no longer enough. Seeking a wider audience to worship her she began to move among the city talking to the peasants. All too soon, the glamour faded. Patrica wanted more: more adulation, more wealth, more power. Patrica wanted... the world. Patrica's beautiful presense and alluring personality commands unswerving devotion from her minions.

Patrica is not without her faults however. She realized that although she knew much about the noble life she knew nothing about the presents or how to keep everyone who wasn't in love with her in line. She knew nothing of traps, nothing of war. However an evil bard came on her 16th birthday seeking an audience. The bard simply gave her a large tome, when she opened it she found "Tome of Jebel" which gave her all the tips she needed to both keep her people in line, as well as get rid of those who oppose her.

Patrica summoned the greatest warriors to her side for a tournament on her 17th birthday stating that whoever won the tournament would become her new bodyguard and personal escort when she left the castle. The tournament went on for days until a dark knight who didn't even have a name won. However many were freaked out at the idea of what was clearly a blackguard joining Patrica's side. As the blackguard was clearly using an unholy longsword and black magic during the duels. However Patrica accepted the black knight to her side. She said she was simply keeping her word, however deep down she wanted the knight for his/her power. Over time she came to trust the knight and eventually revealed the evil overlord tome and her plan to take over the world.

She sent the Knight out around the kingdom and found the most powerful, and most evil warriors, experts and commoners to serve as her personal eyes and ears among the kingdom. Now on her fabled 18th birthday she send out summons to the most powerful of them to the war room. She has established stability and unity in her kingdom for long enough, the time has come to finally start the invasions.....

What I'm debating about is having her have been the one to kill her father. The DM told me he wants the King to have died in something "anti-climatic" like a disease...which it just so happens Paladins of Tyranny can cause...(her cohort is a Paladin of tyranny/Blackguard/Cleric of Bel).

However I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason WHY she did it. As per her current back story she was her father's little princess and was basically spoiled to the point where her ego is bigger than Seto Kaiba's ego. Not exactly a lot of leg room to murder someone who treated you so well. Especially when you consider that her "take over the world" plan, involves faking being lawful good, tricking other countries into declaring war, and then taking them over in the counter attack. She's not stupid, and the "Tome of Jebel" is the Evil Overlord list from Tv tropes, so she's BRUTALLY genre savvy.

So why would she kill him off? She had money, she had power, she had a black knight bodyguard and boyfriend. I'm really stuck at giving her a legit motivation to just decide to off him that doesn't conflict with what I've already written, since her father did truly care for her.

huttj509
2012-04-09, 02:34 AM
'Tome' not 'tomb.' One is a book, the other is a place where dead people are interred.

Why couldn't she have just decided that she needed more power/authority than she had, and daddy wouldn't go as far as she wanted? Fits with the spoiled princess"I get what I want or the obstacle is removed." Especially if "Blaggy" Blackguard could cause a disease to make it look like an accident.

Edit: Heck, the blackguard could've done it without princess' knowledge. Or the bard, because it seems like you're going for a direction where her selfishness and greed is being manipulated by others (Bard, insert the Blackguard close to her, maybe the tome itself is an intelligent magic item using them for its own ends).

averagejoe
2012-04-09, 02:41 AM
First off: I think by, "Tomb," you mean, "Tome." A tomb is a building for housing dead people. A tome is a large book. I mean, technically your statements make sense either way, but tome seems less strange with the context.

As for reasons, possibly she could make a deal with some evil outsider that required her to sacrifice someone she loved.

Does she actually have to be the one who orders it? Maybe the paladin does it because her father disapproved of him.

Maybe she killed him because on some level she was ashamed of what she'd become, and afraid of him finding out and looking on her with disapproval.

Morithias
2012-04-09, 02:45 AM
'Tome' not 'tomb.' One is a book, the other is a place where dead people are interred.

Why couldn't she have just decided that she needed more power/authority than she had, and daddy wouldn't go as far as she wanted? Fits with the spoiled princess"I get what I want or the obstacle is removed." Especially if "Blaggy" Blackguard could cause a disease to make it look like an accident.

Edit: Heck, the blackguard could've done it without princess' knowledge. Or the bard, because it seems like you're going for a direction where her selfishness and greed is being manipulated by others (Bard, insert the Blackguard close to her, maybe the tome itself is an intelligent magic item using them for its own ends).

I will correct the "tome" mispellings.

Interesting idea with her power corrupting her...

The Bard is an interesting character. Jebel is a harvester devil NOT looking to harvest Patricia's soul, but rather turn Patricia into a god and have Patricia conquest the whole world. With Patricia being the "hero of the people" thanks to the teachings of the book (be both loved and feared, be kind to your people, don't abuse relationships for short term gain, etc), they will all worship her....and anyone who worships a lawful evil god, even if they don't realize she's lawful evil goes to Baator when they die....

Basically the harvester devil Jebel plans to turn the whole Material plane into a giant hunting ground, so she can lay claim to EVERY SOUL ON THE PLANET.

The Blackguard ironically was also manipulated by Jebel. Jebel used a scroll of "find the soulmate" on Rance (yes, that IS the blackguard's name), in order to push him to Patricia's side. They are kinda in a unholy matrimony type thing going on.

I like the idea of the bard doing it though, or convincing the blackguard to do it. It seems like the thing a harvester devil would do to advance her plans.


First off: I think by, "Tomb," you mean, "Tome." A tomb is a building for housing dead people. A tome is a large book. I mean, technically your statements make sense either way, but tome seems less strange with the context.

As for reasons, possibly she could make a deal with some evil outsider that required her to sacrifice someone she loved.

Does she actually have to be the one who orders it? Maybe the paladin does it because her father disapproved of him.

Maybe she killed him because on some level she was ashamed of what she'd become, and afraid of him finding out and looking on her with disapproval.

Again, I will correct the Tome thing. Thanks for your comment.

Hmm....a deal with an evil outsider...interesting idea, and it could explain why she has the fire souled template while her sister doesn't.

Technically no she doesn't have to have ordered it, I was just considering it for the backstory...I'm not sure about the blackguard doing it without her orders, although it would be VERY interesting to see what happens if she found out about it.

Ashamed of what she'd become? Interesting concept. Would create an interesting balance with her ego, ashamed of being the spoiled princess and vowing to change her ways and become more active, but never fixing the "pride" issue.

Kolonel
2012-04-09, 03:50 AM
Maybe Patricia thought (and was promised) that on her 18th birthday, she would be named as governor of a region, where she could practice how to run a country, so when the time comes, she will have the skills to manage the entire kingdom.
However, her father was none too impressed by her behavior so far, calling her a spoiled little girl in public and denying her the opportunity to rule her own land.
Patricia became furious of course and decided to kill her father and take the whole kingdom.

I also suggest that she has some kind of supernatural help, but only in the form of an adviser.
In her current form, she kinda looks like an easy target: her word will be discredited, because she doesn't know politics; she will be tricked by a fake lover; her rule will be threatened by rebels, because she doesn't know how to wage war and how to win her underlings' loyalty.
Any mistake, however, could cost her the kingdom.
But if she has a devil from another plane or a sentient artifact to teach her, she could maneuver to remain the queen for decades and even gain political influence in other countries.
Human adviser will not work, as he/she might be after Patricia's power and/or wealth.
It can also add to the drama if that devil (evil artifact, etc.) often suggests actions Patricia doesn't like or finds unnecessarily cruel or completely inhuman. Killing the king might also have been his suggestion, and Patricia is still not sure whether it was the right move.

This campaign idea sounds awesome. :smallsmile:
What kind of setting do you use?

Morithias
2012-04-09, 04:06 AM
Maybe Patricia thought (and was promised) that on her 18th birthday, she would be named as governor of a region, where she could practice how to run a country, so when the time comes, she will have the skills to manage the entire kingdom.
However, her father was none too impressed by her behavior so far, calling her a spoiled little girl in public and denying her the opportunity to rule her own land.
Patricia became furious of course and decided to kill her father and take the whole kingdom.

I also suggest that she has some kind of supernatural help, but only in the form of an adviser.
In her current form, she kinda looks like an easy target: her word will be discredited, because she doesn't know politics; she will be tricked by a fake lover; her rule will be threatened by rebels, because she doesn't know how to wage war and how to win her underlings' loyalty.
Any mistake, however, could cost her the kingdom.
But if she has a devil from another plane or a sentient artifact to teach her, she could maneuver to remain the queen for decades and even gain political influence in other countries.
Human adviser will not work, as he/she might be after Patricia's power and/or wealth.
It can also add to the drama if that devil (evil artifact, etc.) often suggests actions Patricia doesn't like or finds unnecessarily cruel or completely inhuman. Killing the king might also have been his suggestion, and Patricia is still not sure whether it was the right move.

This campaign idea sounds awesome. :smallsmile:
What kind of setting do you use?

The setting is similar to greyhawk, but there are multiple material planes, that are blocked off from each other. One campaign takes place in one material plane, one takes place in another material plane, but they all share the same continuity and afterlife, as well as the three main powers. The "first evil" the "creator (basically the first good)" and "Ao" the true neutral ruler. Basically in this setting, every god exists, every setting exists, and everything exists period.

So basically she's taking over the KNOWN material plane, but there exists more material planes out there...which depending on future campaigns may get invaded by her forces...We're actually debating about attempting to invade Baator after getting the campaign over.

As for your comment. Interesting idea of her being denied rulership and deciding to take power into her own hand. That seems to be the main idea of why she did. She wanted the throne, and wasn't going to let her love for her father get in her way.

Her "Advisors" are basically the other PC's. I'm playing the queen, S is playing the General, the DM is playing the head of police force, D is playing the head of propaganda and fear, and G is playing the head of espionage.

Jebel is kinda an NPC, originally she was going to be a "second cohort", but ultimately she's the big bad of the campaign, and the driving force behind the whole campaign. I've arranged for the DM to have her occasionally pop in and keep Patricia on track with gifts, advice, and quest suggestions.

Acanous
2012-04-09, 05:39 AM
The way I see it, Daddy dissapproved of a Blackguard bodyguard for the princess, and when he found out she was having relations with him on the side, he was furious. That would simply not do, he'd have to arrange for something to happen to the blackguard to cover up Patricia's indescretions. While lecturing her on the requirements of her position and the potential disgrace the loss of her honor would cause the kingdom, she got upset. When she figured out he intended to dispose of her lover, it became Daddy or the Boyfriend, and she chose what most adolescant girls do...

Morithias
2012-04-09, 01:00 PM
The way I see it, Daddy dissapproved of a Blackguard bodyguard for the princess, and when he found out she was having relations with him on the side, he was furious. That would simply not do, he'd have to arrange for something to happen to the blackguard to cover up Patricia's indescretions. While lecturing her on the requirements of her position and the potential disgrace the loss of her honor would cause the kingdom, she got upset. When she figured out he intended to dispose of her lover, it became Daddy or the Boyfriend, and she chose what most adolescant girls do...

Oh my...that is just diabolical! I like it! It also gives a reason for why Patricia's sister Agatha wouldn't get pissed off at Patricia killing the King. She would've done the same thing.

I'm sure the other PC's won't give a care, I should probably go over with it with them though before I write that Patricia killed the king....don't want the PC's having something in their backstory that makes them want to kill her.

Cerlis
2012-04-09, 07:20 PM
Obviously what happened is since it was almost her 18th birthday (and she'd be an adult) he realized it was time to finally tell her that she wasnt his real daughter. He loved her so much but he knew she needed to know and since she wasnt a child anymore she deserved to know.

This freaked her out because even though it was just a secret between them, if it ever got out that she'd loose her claim to the kingdom. Further more the sense of confusion caused by this persieved "betrayal" would have weakened her positive feelings to him. "after all he isnt even MY father!"

Perhaps it was her idea, and she wanted to protect her future despite her fathers betrayal. Perhaps her lover saw how freaked out she was about her future and decided to "fix" the situation. Perhaps he realized his ticket to wealth was in danger if this "secret" was revealed.

Either way, the following week one of many of the mundane low level magic scrolls in the kingdom's armory treasury was taken, unnoticed since there is so much. During a banquet the blackguard sits through holding the charge on a mage hand spell (cus i believe you can do that). When the king takes a bite he uses it to shove the food down his windpipe choking him to death.

It is believed to be a freak accident. a single investigator thinks there might be foul play, and tries to annilize the magical residue there. but the only residue is arcane energy (blackguards use divine magic ) and there is no more to be expected from all the enchanted items in the palace.

Morithias
2012-04-09, 09:10 PM
Snip

I like the murder method, but she's got the noble born feat, so she is the legit heir. Plus I have it in Jebel's backstory that she decided on Patricia after hearing "queen dies giving birth to twins".

The murder method, sounds quite nice and less obvious than the whole "cause disease" thing, and it's harder to cure so there's no questioning why the hell the king just didn't get a cleric to cast "remove disease".

So far it seems the motivation is "she got sick of waiting for the throne/was going through hard times with her father due to Rance" and the murder method is "make the king choke on a piece of food".

Reluctance
2012-04-09, 09:24 PM
Depends on how much of a hardcore ***** she is.

Hardcore version: Power demands sacrifice. When the power is dark, that sacrifice might have to be human. What's a little patricide when it's the key to unlocking cosmic power? (Which does fall apart when you look at what you can do while retaining control of your soul, but let's ignore D&Disms like that.)

Less hardcore version: Power demands sacrifice. Patty's dealings with dark forces have made her something of a jinx. At first she thought the effects were minor and harmless. For the most part, they are. One missed step or a bit of food going down the wrong pipe are minor things with potentially serious consequences. It shouldn't mess with her adventuring companions much, but could be interesting for what it does to NPCs around her. And if she cares.

Morithias
2012-04-09, 09:36 PM
Depends on how much of a hardcore ***** she is.

Hardcore version: Power demands sacrifice. When the power is dark, that sacrifice might have to be human. What's a little patricide when it's the key to unlocking cosmic power? (Which does fall apart when you look at what you can do while retaining control of your soul, but let's ignore D&Disms like that.)

Less hardcore version: Power demands sacrifice. Patty's dealings with dark forces have made her something of a jinx. At first she thought the effects were minor and harmless. For the most part, they are. One missed step or a bit of food going down the wrong pipe are minor things with potentially serious consequences. It shouldn't mess with her adventuring companions much, but could be interesting for what it does to NPCs around her. And if she cares.

Could you explain this a little better? I'm not entirely getting where you're coming from.

Also as for the "cosmic power" and dealing with fiends. She is an urban druid/rogue/urban soul, not a wizard or cleric, she has no interest in "cosmic power", as far as she's concerned she's already the queen of the kingdom...shame about all those other kingdoms...she deserves to own them too.

She's also unaware of Jebel's "make her a god" plan. Anything that Jebel plans to do, or has done with the exception of give her the book, and send Rance to the tournament she is unaware of.

Reluctance
2012-04-09, 10:27 PM
My bad. I just figure that as a rule, horrible evil types are spellcasters. Due to all the ways a spellcaster can mess with you if you're not one.

Doesn't change the underlying assumption, though. Patricia sounds like someone who is willing to do dark things for power. Fiends rarely just up and hand you something. Instead, they draw you into needing their help and deeper dependencies. (After all, what's to stop the genre savvy person who just conquered the world from realizing that heroes tend to have a longer shelf life than villains, and converting to the side of light?) So with that understanding, "sacrifice something to me so that I'll keep supporting you" is very much a fiendish thing to do.

She needn't know Jebel's long-term plans. Just that it's something willing to barter with her and give her the power she needs. At a cost.

Morithias
2012-04-09, 10:32 PM
Snip

Interesting idea. I will see what I work it into. Perhaps some kind of Faustian Pact bonus.

Pie Guy
2012-04-10, 05:39 PM
I actually like the idea that the princess actually loved her father and didn't wish him dead, but is now happily in control and is actively blocking any attempts at his resurrection.

Sith_Happens
2012-04-10, 11:41 PM
The way I see it, Daddy dissapproved of a Blackguard bodyguard for the princess, and when he found out she was having relations with him on the side, he was furious. That would simply not do, he'd have to arrange for something to happen to the blackguard to cover up Patricia's indescretions. While lecturing her on the requirements of her position and the potential disgrace the loss of her honor would cause the kingdom, she got upset. When she figured out he intended to dispose of her lover, it became Daddy or the Boyfriend, and she chose what most adolescant girls do...

Definitely go with this one.

Bouregard
2012-04-11, 02:56 AM
Oldest motive in the book, the father wanted to marry her off to some distant, backwater kingdom to prevent a war in the near future.
He explained that to her in private and she knew she had to off him.

-Getting away from her seat of power is against her ego, being used as a tool also.

-peace and coexistance are gainst her vision of conquest

-letting a nice little accident happening to her father courtesy of a blackguard is on the one hand a loyality check for the knight and he's the perfect scapegoat if anyone finds out. Who do they believe? The evil blackguard thats only in service to the princess because she is lawful? Or the nice little princess trying her best to protect the people?

the perfect clouedo crime, she had a motive (loss of power) and an opportunity (blackguard)

Morithias
2012-04-11, 11:55 AM
Oldest motive in the book, the father wanted to marry her off to some distant, backwater kingdom to prevent a war in the near future.
He explained that to her in private and she knew she had to off him.


That's a good one...and it fits in nicely with the "Father is mad about the relationship between Patricia (Princess) and Rance (Black Knight)."

Should be able to talk my DM into putting this into the backstory. We're not that far away from the human empire on the map, so I could use that kingdom as a basis for marriage.

Morithias
2012-04-11, 11:57 AM
Edit: double post

Gensuru
2012-04-11, 02:40 PM
I find it odd how many people can't seem to get past the point that her father honestly loved her. So what? The reverse need not be true o (or at least not quite to that extent) The way I see it by the time she was 16 she was spoiled to the point that riches and adulations (indirectly provided through her father's power) had lost their appeal and became boring and insufficient. Then along comes a bard (generally good looking fellas and the evil ones are likely good at seduction). The evil bard fills her head with grand ideas via the book you mentioned (and maybe some late night whisperings?). The seed of an idea, a direction is planted. A year passes and she decides she needs a minion she can control directly rather than relying on her father's servants who's loyalty is shared. Another year for her to keep realising how limited her own power is. Her father may spoil her with presents and riches and the people may be easily led to love and praise their princess but what reason does the father have to expand his kingdom? He is already rich and powerful. His kingdom obviously isn't at the brink of any wars or threatened by poverty. Why would the king be anything but conservative of what he already has? For a young girl that is bored and spoiled and now has this grand idea of excitement and chaos and power planted in her ear by sinister influences the wait must seem unbearable. What good are her father's riches and his power if she is stuck with her pretty toys and idle games? If she wants to get something done she will need power. Daddy dearest just has to go. And why not? He has no further ambitions he wants to fulfil. His dream is quite obviously to live out the rest of his days watching over his prosperous kingdom and his beautiful daughters until his time has come and he can hand over the reigns to his eldest child. Allowing him to die of a disease (and maybe a fairly painless one at that) would be a kindness really. Age must have finally caught up with him. But at least he saw his last dream fulfilled. His kingdom prospering and his eldest child ready to take on her duty as the new ruler. Perhaps it's a good thing that he suspects nothing of her ambitious dreams...o

Morithias
2012-04-11, 03:24 PM
Then along comes a bard (generally good looking fellas and the evil ones are likely good at seduction). The evil bard fills her head with grand ideas via the book you mentioned (and maybe some late night whisperings?).

The fact the bard was a bloody harvester devil doesn't hurt either. I do like your concept as well, with her justifying it to herself as a "kindness" to her father.

You guys all have such evil ideas. The black knight did it without her knowledge, arranged marriage, she picked the boyfriend over her father, she argued to herself it was her time to rule...I must say the playground is full of people who know how evil works (either that or they spend a ton of time on tv tropes).

I'll send this thread to my DM. Thanks for all your help!

Princess
2012-04-11, 10:05 PM
All of this makes me want to participate. Alas.

Sith_Happens
2012-04-12, 06:20 AM
The fact the bard was a bloody harvester devil doesn't hurt either. I do like your concept as well, with her justifying it to herself as a "kindness" to her father.

You guys all have such evil ideas. The black knight did it without her knowledge, arranged marriage, she picked the boyfriend over her father, she argued to herself it was her time to rule...I must say the playground is full of people who know how evil works (either that or they spend a ton of time on tv tropes).

I'll send this thread to my DM. Thanks for all your help!

I hope you're not trying to use all the ideas at once. That's likely to get very confusing very fast.:smalltongue:

Morithias
2012-04-12, 01:26 PM
I hope you're not trying to use all the ideas at once. That's likely to get very confusing very fast.:smalltongue:

Not all at once of course, but that doesn't change the fact they are all very evil ideas!

Lord Tyger
2012-04-12, 01:45 PM
I hope you're not trying to use all the ideas at once. That's likely to get very confusing very fast.:smalltongue:

Or brilliant!

The princess was coming to believe it was her time to rule, helped along by the Blackguard and the Bard. As such, she becomes more reckless with her secrets, believing that her father's power over her life is waning. Her father found out about her and her boyfriend, and decided to head things off with an arranged marriage, which the knight, but not the princess, found out about. He plots to kill the king, but doesn't tell the princess, because he's not sure that she'll agree to it ahead of time, but figures she'll accept it once it's happened.

Meanwhile, Jebel sees his plans threatened, and makes preparations to remove the King, believing that the Princess is ready to take her place on the throne. At the same time, one of the Princess's ladies in waiting lets slip the plans for the arranged marriage. Already tiring of her father's position, this final outrage pushes her over the edge, and she prepares to murder him.

At the feast, wacky madcap hijinks ensue as the murder plans all trip over each other.

Morithias
2012-04-13, 05:02 PM
Suddenly I'm imagining a cheesy "murder the king" montage set to yakkity sax.


Snip

Meanwhile, Jebel sees his plans threatened

Also Jebel is a Girl

This is all very nice, now all that's left to do is debate it over with the DM. He liked that everyone is complimenting his campaign and setting though. :)