A Combination of 2 Things I love (PEACH)

[Mathias1313]

First let me address a couple of things. This is my take on a combination of the EarthShaker class by Temotei and the Codice of Spellshaping rules by DonQuixote. I want this understood as the majority of work was done previously by them, I merely adapted and am combining them into something I would like to see use from.
I loved the Theme of the Earthshaker class by Temotei, but as I was looking thru the class I kept seeing things that kept bringing me back to DonQuixote's Codice of Spellshaping. This is what I have come up with so far, plz let me know what you think...


EarthWhisperer
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Formulae Known|
Formulae Prepared

1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Tremor, Stone Infusion, Sheath of Stone, TremorSense|
1|
1

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|StoneCunning, Stones Bulwark, Whispered Secrets|
1|
1

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Burrow, Stable Hide|
2|
2

4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Control Earth|
2|
2

5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Whispered Secrets|
3|
3

6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|Secrets of Stone|
3|
3

7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2|Hurl Earth, Mountain Step|
4|
4

8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|Whispered Secrets|
4|
4

9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3|Tremor Shape, Improved Burrow|
5|
5

10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|Lesser Ascension, Mountains Reach|
5|
5

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3|Whispered Secrets|
6|
6

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4|Roots of the Mountain|
6|
6

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4|Secrets of Stone, Improved Control Earth|
7|
7

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4|Whispered Secrets, Greater Burrow|
7|
7

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|Heart of Stone|
8|
8

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5|Eternal Mountain|
8|
8

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5|Whispered Secrets, Eternal Mountain|
9|
9

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6|Secrets of Stone, Whispered Secrets, Eternal Mountain|
9|
9

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6|Mountains Bulwark, Whispered Secrets, Eternal Mountain|
10|
10

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|Greater Ascension, Whispered Secrets, Whispered Secrets, Eternal Mountain|
11|
11

[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d10

Class Skills:
Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft(Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana, Engineering, Dungeoneering) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Spot(Wis), Swim (Str)
Class Skills
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Class features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: An EarthWhisper is Proficent with all simple weapons as well as all Bludgeoning Weapons(simple, martial or Exotic) and all forms of Armor and shields. An EarthWhisperer is not affected by Arcane Spell Failure while using any Formulae or class feature gained thru this class only.
Formulae: You begin play with knowledge of 1 arcane formulae of the Crushing Stone Circle. Once you know a formula, you must prepare it before you can use it (see Formulae Prepared, below). A formula usable by an EarthWhisperer is considered a spell‐like ability unless otherwise noted in its description. The save DC for a formula that allows a save is 10 + formula level + your Wisdom modifier. You learn additional formulae at higher levels, as shown on below. To learn or shape a formula, you must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the formula level, as well as meeting the formula's prerequisite. See page 36 of The Codex of Spellshaping: The Twelve Circles to determine the highest‐level formulae you can learn. Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even numbered EarthWhisperer level after that (6th, 8th, 10th, and so on), you can choose to learn a new formulaof the Crushing Stone Circle in place of one you already know. In effect, you lose the old formula in exchange for the new one. You can choose a new formula of any level you like, as long as you observe your restriction on the highest‐level formulae you know; you need not replace the old formula with a formula of the same level. For example, upon reaching 10th level, you could trade in a single 1st‐, 2nd‐, 3rd‐, or 4th‐level formula for a formula of 5th level or lower. You can swap only a single formula at any given level.
Formulae Prepared: You can prepare the formulae you know at 1st level. You ready your formulae by meditating and praying for 5 minutes. The formulae you choose remain prepared until you decide to meditate again and change them. You need not sleep or rest for any long period of time to prepare your formulae; any time you spend 5 minutes in meditation and exercise, you can change your prepared formulae. You begin an encounter with all of your prepared formulae unexpended, regardless of how many times you might have already used them since you chose them. When you shape a formula, you expend it for the current encounter, so each of your prepared formulae can be used once per encounter (unless you recover them, as described below). You can recover all expended formulae from Circle by meditating on how the magical energies of that circle flow through your body. This meditation is a move action that provokes no attacks of opportunity. If you are currently using your Sheath of Stone ability, you can perform this meditation as a swift action but only to recover Formulae from the Crushing Stone Circle. Meditating on the flow of magic in this way prevents you from properly tapping into a circle's power, and you cannot shape a formula in the same round that you recover the formulae belonging to its circle.
Tremor(Su): At 1st lvl as a Standard Action the Whisperer may expend a Major Formulae From the Crushing Stone Circle to initiate a Tremor. The Whisperer must have something solid under him as well as for the Area of the Tremor. The Tremor is a Line 10ft long +5ft per even Whisperer Lvl. The Tremor Deals 1d6+Con Mod(if Positive) to all within the area or half if a successful Reflex save vs DC=10+half EarthWhisperer lvl +Con Mod(if Positive). The tremor Deals an additional 1d6 damage per Formulae Lvl expended, with an additional +Con to damage at 5th and 9th lvl lvl formulae (ie a 9th Lvl Formulae would Produce a Tremor that deals 10d6+(Conx3) ). The Lvl of the Formulae Expended also determines what additional effects can be added, all of the following last Con Mod(if Positive) +the lvl of the Formulae in rounds:
-1st lvl- Tremor can Initiate a Bull rush against anyone within range Substituting Con for Str and gaining a Bonus as if gaining size for every 3 Formulae lvls(ie. +4 for 3rd, +8 for 6th and +12 for 9th) This Bullrush does not cause an Attack of Opportunity. For every 5 points you beat your opponent by the Target gets moved an additional 5ft, you don’t move with them, to the Max range of the Tremor area.
-2nd lvl-Everything in the Area is considered difficult terrain for the duration.
-3rd lvl-Everyone Affected by the Tremor is Tripped, substituting Con for Str and gaining the same size bonus as in BullRush above. This does not cause an attack of opportunity and if unsuccessful, opponent cannot reactively trip Whisperer.
-4th lvl-Works Identical to BullRush above only you can force the movement towards you instead away from you.
-5th lvl- Everything in the Area is considered Entangled for the duration. A DC=10+Half Whisperer lvl+Con Strength check or Escape Artist check as a full-round action is required to break free and move at half-speed. Every round on the opponents turn they must make an additional DC=10+half lvl of whisperer +Con Reflex or be entangle again and need an additional STR or escape check.
-6th lvl- A 5ft per 5 Whisperer lvls high, 2inchs thick per 4 Whisperer lvls Wall is created for the Length of the Line. This can also be used with with the Burst Radius Version, creating a circle within the Radius.
-7th lvl- As the 5th lvl version, however ever square moved inflicts damage = Rockslam Attack
-8th lvl- Creates a rift in the ground 5ft wide for the length of the Line(Length of the line can be halved to widen the Line to 10ft wide). A reflex Save vs DC=10 +Half Whisperer lvl +Con is required to not fall in. Creatures that successfully save must move to the edge of the area. If there is no room then the save is Auto Failed. At the end of the duration the ground comes back together and another save must be made, if saved, opponent takes half Damage as normal for an 8th lvl Tremor. If failed, you die as from failing a Massive Damage roll.
-9th lvl- Can Combine any of the previous Effects in one shot, except the 6ht and 8th lvl versions. They become permanent when used thru a 9th lvl Formulae.
Sheath of Stone(Su): At 1st lvl 1/day + 1 additional time at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th an EarthWhisperer can cover himself in a thick Layer of Stone and Earth. While Affected the Whisperer gains +4Con (which gives Temp HP similar to Barbarian), +4 Armor Bonus and a Hardness of 2. These bonuses last for 3rnds +Con Mod(if Positive). When the Effect ends, the Whisperer is fatigued for 1min. Hardness Increases by 2 at 6th, 11th, 16th and 20th lvl.
TremorSense(Ex): At 1st lvl the EarthWhisperer gains Tremorsense to a radius of 5ft per Whisperer lvl.
Stone Infusion(Su): At 1st lvl as a move action an EarthWhisperer can imbue any held weapon with the power of Earth itself. Any Weapon so imbued gains 8 Hardness and 15 Hitpoints. As well, if used on a Bludgeoning weapon deals damage as a weapon 1 size Larger. While imbued the Weapon counts as Crushing Stone Spellshape Attack for Using Formulae as well as any and all feats and class abilities. While using a Formulae shaped thru your Rock weapon, the Earth Whisperer is immune to any and all effects of the Formulae. At 5th lvl the Rock Weapon is treated as ColdIron and Silver and at 10th lvl it is considered Adamantine.
StoneCunning(Ex): At 2nd lvl this ability grants a Whisperer a +2 bonus on Search checks to notice unusual stonework, such as sliding walls, stonework traps, new construction (even when built to match the
old), unsafe stone surfaces, shaky stone ceilings, and the like. Something that isn’t stone but that is disguised as stone also counts as unusual stonework. A Whisperer who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a Search check as if he were actively searching, and a Whisperer can use the Search skill to find stonework traps as a rogue can. A Whisperer can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up. Whisperers have a sixth sense about stonework, an innate ability that they get plenty of opportunity to practice and hone in their underground homes.
Stones Bulwark(Ex): At 2nd lvl a Whisperer now uses Con instead of Dex for AC. Armor Still limits AC bonus as normal. As part of this defense, the Whisperer also gets the Stability trait, granting them a +4 bonus against any form of unwanted movement.
Whispered Secrets: At 2nd lvl and every 3lvls after (ie. 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 20th) a Whisperer may choose one of the Following Secrets From the Earth: (Will add in next post)
Burrow(Ex): At 3rd lvl a Whisperer gains a burrow Speed of 10ft thru Earth, dirt, and sand +10ft every 5th lvl after (ie. 8th, 13th, 18th).
Stable Hide(Ex): At 3rd lvl a Whisperer ignores the movement reduction in any form of armor. The Run reduction is still in place. As well a Whisperer May ignore up to 1/2 their Con Mod in Armor Check penalties.
Control Earth(Sp): At 4th lvl the Whisperer may use Stoneshape as the spell as a standard action affecting 1cu Ft per Shaper lvl.
Secrets of Stone At lvls 6, 13 and 18 you may choose an additional Arcane Circle. You gain the ability to learn new Formulae from that circle. Upon gaining access to a new circle you may immediately change up to 2 previous formulae to the new circle. You do not gain the spellshape attacks of said Formulae however you may treat your Stone Infusion or Hurl Earth ability as the Spellshape attack for those circles.
Hurl Earth(Sp): At 7th lvl the Whisperer may now use the Rockslam Spellshape attack except it is at half Spellshaper lvl(Rounded down).
Mountain Step(Ex): At 7th lvl the Whisperer may ignore all Natural difficult terrain and all effects limiting movement from his class features and formulae.
Tremor Shape: At 9th lvl instead of a Line, Tremor may now be used as a cone(at 1/2 range) or a burst centered on Whisperer(at 1/3 range) rounded down.
Improved Burrow: At 9th lvl the Whisperer can now burrow thru Stone as well.
Lesser Ascension: At 10th lvl the Whisperer gains the Earth Subtype, immunity to Stunning and paralysis and 50% Immunity to Critical hits. Sheath of Stone may now be initiated when it is not your turn, but not if you are flatfooted. You also gain FastHealing 5 while standing on ground.
Mountains Reach: At 10th lvl the range of your Tremor ability is now Doubled.
Roots of The Mountain(Su): While in your Sheath of Stone, you may use a swift action to Root yourself to the ground, limiting yourself to 5ft moves only. While rooted the EarthWhisperer gets an additional +4 Armor bonus, +8 bonus to prevent any unwanted movement(Stacks with Stones Bulwark) and increases Hardness by 50%.
Improved Control Earth(Sp): At 13th lvl the Whisperer may now use Stoneshape to create a pillar of stone 5ft high in a 5ft square. If used on the same square affected previously the pillar raises to 10ft high and all adj squares become difficult terrain.
Greater Burrow: At 14th lvl the Whisperer can EarthGlide as an Earth Elemental at half Burrow speed.
Heart of Stone(Su): At 15th lvl as an immediate Action a Whisperer may ignore 1 effect that a Construct would normally be immune to (ie. Ability damage, Necromancy, etc..). This Ability only functions while in your Sheath of Stone.
Eternal Mountain: At 16th lvl the Whisperer is no longer fatigued when Sheath of Stone finishes.
Mountains Bulwark(Su): At 19th lvl as an Attack of opportunity a Whisperer may Summon a momentary Wall of Earth and/or Stone to Provide Total cover to one ally within 60ft against 1 Targeted attack. Both the Whisperer and the ally must be standing on the ground. This ability has no affect on area of effect attacks.
Greater Ascension: At 20th lvl the Whisperers type changes to Elemental(Earth Subtype) gaining immunity to Sleep and posion as well as immunity to critical hits and cannot be flanked also no longer having any need to eat, breathe or sleep, however the Whisperer still retains its soul and thus can be raised and such. The Whisperer gains Darkvision out to 60ft or adds 60ft to any previous Darkvision. FastHealing is now raised to 10. All of the Whisperers class abilities that are Sp become Su and all Su become Ex.

Dear God I hope I got the Formatting right, lol

[Mathias1313]

Reserved for the Whispers.

[DonQuixote]

Any particular reason for the restricted formula progression? You end up knowing something like half as many formulae as a standard spellshaper. Moreover, since half of your known formulae need to be from the Crushing Stone circle, it's literally impossible to know a 9th-level formula from any other circle. At 20th level, you can only know five formulae that AREN'T from Crushing Stone, which are distributed across three circles. Because of the way prerequisites work, that seriously hampers your versatility.

Additionally, the fact that you can prepare all of your known formulae means that preparation is a little redundant. You'll never actually change what formulae you use, because you always have access to all of them.

So, I'd suggest increasing the number of formulae known, while keeping the number of formulae prepared roughly the same. I'd also change the levels at which you get Secrets of Stone, since gaining access to a fourth circle at level 18 feels a little...late. While you should definitely be focused on earth and stone, the fact that you're already reshaping any formulae you know into earth effects means that it doesn't pose quite so large of a problem. (Incidentally, the recovery mechanic currently doesn't allow you to recover any non-Crushing Stone formulae at all. I suspect this is an oversight.)

Haven't gotten the chance to delve deeply into the class features yet, but I'll do so once my lectures for the day are over. Due to my inherent English Major nature, I'm probably also going to prepare a cleaned-up version of the wording and formatting. Do you prefer second-person or third-person write-ups?


Edit: Okay, I've gotten a chance to actually go over things a bit, and I actually have several issues to raise.


The save DC for a formula that allows a save is 10 + formula level + your Constitution modifier.


To learn or shape a formula, you must have a Constitution score equal to at least 10 + the formula level, as well as meeting the formula's prerequisite.

Thing about spellshaping? It's still magic. Never stopped being magical. As such, it is governed by a mental ability score. Much like you don't have wizards casting from Strength or psions manifesting with their Constitution, spellshapers should always be using Charisma, Wisdom, or Intelligence. This becomes more of an issue with Constitution, since it also governs your hit points. You only care about one ability score, and it's the ability score that makes you harder to kill.



Tremor(Su): [Most of it]

I'm beginning to think that the reason for the restricted spellshaping progression is that you don't really need formulae. My evidence? Tremor. This ability does more damage than most formulae and spellshape attack combinations--at 20th level, you're throwing out roughly 29d6 points of damage. Moreover, you get a slew of different effects that you can stick on to it, most of which are more or less equal in strength to a formula.

Interestingly, this ability doesn't mention any provisions for flying creatures. If something is floating off of the ground in the area, it shouldn't technically be affected, since a tremor is a movement in the earth.



Sheath of Stone(Su): At 1st lvl 1/day + 1 additional time at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th an EarthWhisperer can cover himself in a thick Layer of Stone and Earth. While Affected the Whisperer gains +4Con (which gives Temp HP similar to Barbarian), +4 Natural Armor and a Hardness of 2. These bonuses last for 3rnds +Con Mod(if Positive). When the Effect ends, the Whisperer is fatigued. Hardness Increases by 2 at 6th, 11th, 16th and 20th lvl.

Basic rage spin-off. I'll point out, though, that this is effectively giving you +6 AC at 2nd level and higher, given the fact that you get Constitution to AC. (Which we'll discuss shortly.)



Stones Bulwark(Ex): At 2nd lvl a Whisperer now uses Con instead of Dex for AC. Armor Still limits AC bonus as normal. As part of this defense, the Whisperer also gets the Stability trait, granting them a +4 bonus against any form of unwanted movement.

Speak of the devil! Also, holy hell. This ability, combined with the fact that you use Constitution as your spellshaping ability modifier, leads to an absolutely preposterous AC combo:

Step 1: Be a human earthwhisperer. Take Spellshape Study (any) as your 1st-level feat, then again as your human bonus feat.
Step 2: Reach 5th level. Take Spellshape Focus as your 3rd-level feat.
Step 3: Take levels in the Spellforge Warsmith prestige class.
Step 4: Learn the Flesh of Stone formula.
Step 5: Reach 20th level.

The net result? Well, since you love your Constitution score so much, let's assume that you sunk all of your resources into it. That's a score of 34. When in Sheath of Stone, it goes up to 38. In other words, a +14 modifier.

Now, you use Constitution instead of Dexterity, so--when unarmored and in Sheath of Stone--you have an AC of 28. However, you're not unarmored--you're wearing Spellforge Armor and carrying a Spellforge Shield. At 20th level, that pushes you to 45. Since you're in Spellforge Armor, you also get a deflection bonus equal to your spellshaping ability modifier--in this case, Constitution--increasing your AC to 59. Finally, you shape Flesh of Stone on yourself, getting a natural armor bonus equal to your Constitution modifier. Since Sheath of Stone is defined as a bonus to your natural armor, they stack--meaning that your AC is now 63. That's far too high.

See, spellforge warsmith is designed for entry by puny spellsages and slightly-less-puny elemental adepts. Sure, they get that deflection bonus, but they also don't have a Dexterity modifier equal to their spellshaping ability modifier. They also don't have Sheath of Stone. Generally, that means that their AC will--with the exact same prestige class and formula--be closer to 50. Still high, but--given that they bought two ability scores to 18, purchased two +6 ability score items, and read two +5 ability score books--more allowably so. Remember, the earthwhisperer got that armor class with half the investment.



Whispered Secrets: At 2nd lvl and every 3lvls after (ie. 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 20th) a Whisperer may choose one of the Following Secrets From the Earth: (Will add in next post)

You're getting seven other abilities...in addition to the behemoth that is tremor. I'm really having a hard time understanding why this class also needs arcane formulae--it has a whole slew of things that it can do from class levels alone, and adding formulae just makes it more powerful.



Stable Hide(Ex): At 3rd lvl a Whisperers Max Dex bonus while in armor is increased 1 and the armor check penalty is reduced by 1. These bonuses increase by +1 at 6th, 12th, 15th, and 18th lvl. While at 9th lvl you ignore the movement reduction in any form of armor. The Run reduction is still in place.

Along with the "Constitution instead of Dexterity" ability, this means that--even if you don't bother with the ludicrous AC combo above--you aren't getting hit. Just seems a bit much.



Control Earth(Sp): At 4th lvl the Whisperer may use Stoneshape as the spell as a standard action affecting 1cu Ft per Shaper lvl.

Is this at will? Also, note that 5 cubic feet is not equal to a 5-foot-cube. A 5-foot-cube actually consists of 125 cubic feet.



Hurl Earth(Sp): At 7th lvl the Whisperer may now use the Rockslam Spellshape attack except it is at half Spellshaper lvl(Rounded down).

I'm not entirely sure why the penalty to your shaper level is necessary, given that tremor is almost always a better decision anyway if you want damage. You'll basically be using this for the sole purpose of bringing fliers down to earth so that you can ruin their lives.



Improved Control Earth(Sp): At 13th lvl the Whisperer may now use Stoneshape to create a pillar of stone 5ft high in a 5ft square. If used on the same square affected previously the pillar raises to 10ft high and all adj squares become difficult terrain.

As noted earlier, stone shape wouldn't actually be able to manipulate that much volume, but that's okay--this is a separate effect entirely. Again, though, you haven't told us how often it can be used. Additionally, you haven't covered what happens if a creature is occupying those squares when you use the ability.



Mountain's Bulwark(Su): At 19th lvl as an Attack of opportunity a Whisperer may Summon a momentary Wall of Earth and/or Stone to Provide Total cover to one ally within 60ft against 1 Targeted attack. Both the Whisperer and the ally must be standing on the ground. This ability has no affect on area of effect attacks.

I'm not sure what you mean by "as an attack of opportunity"--as written, you can only use this ability when a creature that you threaten provokes an attack of opportunity. In any event, an effect this powerful should really take an immediate action, anyway.


That's most of what's bothering me with this first pass. I'll need to review all my material before I can comment on other interactions with spellshaping. Again, though, I can't figure out why this class really needs spellshaping in addition to its class features. It just adds more power to a class that's already pretty capable of devastating anything on the ground. Even against a flying creature, you're about as powerful as a regular spellshaper. And regular spellshapers are not terribly weak.

If I'm being honest, my suggestion would be to cut the spellshaping progression entirely. The tremor ability makes me think that it would be better suited to a warlock-style paradigm, in which you learn Eldritch Essence equivalents for your tremor.

Alternatively, if you really want the class to use arcane formulae, here's what I would do:
First of all, I'd switch the spellshaping ability score to Charisma, Wisdom, or Intelligence, to prevent silly combos. I would then completely redesign tremor to function like a dragonheart adept's spellshape breath weapon, combined with the flamespeaker's tendency to reshape everything to Searing Flame. There's also no reason not to give the class a normal rockslam attack for the purpose of dealing with fliers, so I'd add that--though, unlike the tremor ability, a rockslam wouldn't be a valid vector for non-Crushing Stone formulae. I would then adjust the class's formula progression--and the Secrets of Stone progression--to match the flamespeaker.

Next, I'd clean up some of the earth-related class features, but keep them. Whispered Secrets, however, would be right out, since it just adds too much. (Alternatively, you could conflate the two--making the earth-related abilities different secrets that you can select.) I'd also drop the armor proficiency to light armor, and drop the shield proficiency entirely--with that Constitution to AC, the class doesn't really need that much propping in terms of defense. I'd leave that bonus as Constitution, incidentally, since it would no longer be a problem--Constitution would no longer also be the basis for your spellshaping.

Probably some other changes, but I don't have time to completely rehaul the class right now. I have a lecture in twenty minutes, and I still need to do the reading for it.

[Mathias1313]

Thanks so much for the response, I appreciate it, let me go thru some of my thinking about this:
(I apologize as I dont know how to format properly on the forum, so I dont know how to Quote like you did)

Any particular reason for the restricted formula progression? You end up knowing something like half as many formulae as a standard spellshaper. Moreover, since half of your known formulae need to be from the Crushing Stone circle, it's literally impossible to know a 9th-level formula from any other circle. At 20th level, you can only know five formulae that AREN'T from Crushing Stone, which are distributed across three circles. Because of the way prerequisites work, that seriously hampers your versatility.

My original thinking for this was that you would still have some of the utility of the spellshaping but the majority of Formulae would be going towards tremor, however you would still have the formulae to deal with fliers

I'd also change the levels at which you get Secrets of Stone, since gaining access to a fourth circle at level 18 feels a little...

This was more of way to fill lvls and I figured that you should have predominately more Crushing stone than anything else and being able to swap 2 old Formulae for 2 of the new circle was a good way of dealing with the low pregression as well.

(Incidentally, the recovery mechanic currently doesn't allow you to recover any non-Crushing Stone formulae at all. I suspect this is an oversight.)

Complete oversight on my part, My intention was that the move action was required for all your circles, however you could do it as a swift while in your Sheath of Stone for Crushing Stone

Thing about spellshaping? It's still magic. Never stopped being magical. As such, it is governed by a mental ability score. Much like you don't have wizards casting from Strength or psions manifesting with their Constitution, spellshapers should always be using Charisma, Wisdom, or Intelligence. This becomes more of an issue with Constitution, since it also governs your hit points. You only care about one ability score, and it's the ability score that makes you harder to kill.

I get this but I thought it would be interesting for the Specific elemental based classes to focus on something more similar to their element. I see this kind of like the Soulborn or Totemists from Magic of incarnum, both use internal magic focused thru their Constitution.


I'm beginning to think that the reason for the restricted spellshaping progression is that you don't really need formulae. My evidence? Tremor. This ability does more damage than most formulae and spellshape attack combinations--at 20th level, you're throwing out roughly 29d6 points of damage. Moreover, you get a slew of different effects that you can stick on to it, most of which are more or less equal in strength to a formula.

This I am not sure about, the Max damage should be 10d6+(4xCon) for a 9th lvl Formulae so say with a +10 Mod max damage would be 100 damage which I dont think is that much at all, its basically an empowered lightning bolt. Let me know where the 29d6 came from, unless you thought I meant your +Constitution instead of +Con Mod, if thats the case I apologize. As for the abilities, i thought it was said that the effect is tied to the lvl of the Formulae, so a 3lvl Formulae would Trip but nothing else, the only one that combines is the 9th lvl. Does that Help clear anything up?

Interestingly, this ability doesn't mention any provisions for flying creatures. If something is floating off of the ground in the area, it shouldn't technically be affected, since a tremor is a movement in the earth.

Again, oversight on my part, I thought it was clear when I added "The Whisperer must have something solid under him as well as for the Area of the Tremor". It means that the area of the Tremor must follow along a physical surface. Is that better sounding?


Basic rage spin-off. I'll point out, though, that this is effectively giving you +6 AC at 2nd level and higher, given the fact that you get Constitution to AC. (Which we'll discuss shortly.)

+6 at 2nd lvl isnt that bad especially since he can always be ignored by the enemy as is the problem with most Tank-type characters.


Step 1: Be a human earthwhisperer. Take Spellshape Study (any) as your 1st-level feat, then again as your human bonus feat.
Step 2: Reach 5th level. Take Spellshape Focus as your 3rd-level feat.
Step 3: Take levels in the Spellforge Warsmith prestige class.
Step 4: Learn the Flesh of Stone formula.
Step 5: Reach 20th level.

This I am not sure about. I agree that an AC of 63 is high but at 20th I dont think it will have that much impact except against mooks. The majority of that AC is all Armor or Natural Armor or Shield. Most things at the higher ends of lvls dont reallt care about Physical AC. Im going to do break down per lvl and see what the #s look like as they go up, but im not sold that 60+ ac at lvl is that much.

Whispered Secrets I was going to do something similar to Barbarian Rage powers and allow acces to things like allowing you to choose a # of 5ft squares = to your Con mod that Tremor does no affect, add things like Powerful build, that goes into Large sized, that goes into huge sized, only while in your Sheath.. things like that

Along with the "Constitution instead of Dexterity" ability, this means that--even if you don't bother with the ludicrous AC combo above--you aren't getting hit. Just seems a bit much.

I figured this would be ok, so that you could wear really Heavy armor but still be able to up your AC. Again as far as the whole AC thing goes, im goona do a lvl break down and see just what it looks like

Is this at will? Also, note that 5 cubic feet is not equal to a 5-foot-cube. A 5-foot-cube actually consists of 125 cubic feet.

Yes this is an at will ability. To be honest I took that from the PHb only lowered it as Stone shape states "up to 10 cu. ft. + 1 cu. ft./level". My idea of measurement is obviously off tho, I assumed it was 1 5ft square/lvl... as in the space 1 medium sized creature takes up. If that is not so, then I shall change it to match.

I'm not entirely sure why the penalty to your shaper level is necessary, given that tremor is almost always a better decision anyway if you want damage. You'll basically be using this for the sole purpose of bringing fliers down to earth so that you can ruin their lives.

As discussed above, Tremor should only work on a physical surface. I wanted them to still have a way to deal with fliers, but I wanted the main focus of the class to be melee, thus the half Shaper lvl.

As noted earlier, stone shape wouldn't actually be able to manipulate that much volume, but that's okay--this is a separate effect entirely. Again, though, you haven't told us how often it can be used. Additionally, you haven't covered what happens if a creature is occupying those squares when you use the ability.

At will ability, my thinking was something very similar to the ability used by the Deepstone Sentinel from ToB. I really didnt think about what would happen if it was used on an occupied square. How about something like a standard trip attack but with no bonus for size, if they pass they move 5ft adj and if they fail, they move the 5ft adj and are prone? Would that be ok?

I'm not sure what you mean by "as an attack of opportunity"--as written, you can only use this ability when a creature that you threaten provokes an attack of opportunity. In any event, an effect this powerful should really take an immediate action, anyway.

The whole Att of opportunity thing basically means it uses up an att of opportunity for the rnd of which you have 1, or if you have combat reflexes more, however Dex would be a dump stat for most Whisperers. Thats the intention and I figured at 19th lvl it would not be too powerfull especially since it only affects targeted attacks... that might need more explanation tho.


I guess the main ideas for the class was to make a tank style character with some battlefied control. With the use of high lvl Tremors and Improved Control Earth, a Whisperer could be quite usefull for fortifications as well, outside of combat.
As for the whole Armor Class thing, I would think that when you start getting into the higher lvls AC becomes less and less of a problem as there are just too many things to by pass it and things like Concealment, miss chances and immunites become far more usefull. To be fair too, I could make a monk and swordsage build, that with just basic items from the DMG could AC50 easy and thats no including the miss chances that Tob could bring into effect.

Let me know what you think and if anyone else would like to give suggestions or thoughts, plz do. :)

[DonQuixote]

My original thinking for this was that you would still have some of the utility of the spellshaping but the majority of Formulae would be going towards tremor, however you would still have the formulae to deal with fliers

See, this isn't actually a good reason to add spellshaping to a class. If you're including an entire subsystem, you shouldn't be designing the class with the intention of ignoring said subsystem. There are numerous different methods that you could use for dealing with fliers. This one is extraordinarily unwieldy.


This was more of way to fill lvls and I figured that you should have predominately more Crushing stone than anything else and being able to swap 2 old Formulae for 2 of the new circle was a good way of dealing with the low pregression as well.

You should never be advancing a progression simply as "a way to fill levels." Either commit fully to the progression, or don't. Otherwise, things start to break down.

Incidentally, if you're reshaping every formula you know to Crushing Stone, there's no reason to try to force players to know more Crushing Stone formulae. Literally every formula they shape is Crushing Stone.



I get this but I thought it would be interesting for the Specific elemental based classes to focus on something more similar to their element. I see this kind of like the Soulborn or Totemists from Magic of incarnum, both use internal magic focused thru their Constitution.

They also use an entirely different subsystem--one that is designed to be used in conjunction with Constitution. Whereas spellshaping is designed to be used in conjunction with mental ability scores.

Moreover, the flavor behind incarnum gives a very good reason for the Constitution focus: incarnum is a manifestation of soul energy. It is literally keyed to life. Spellshaping, by contrast, is arcane magic. It is manipulated by the mind.



This I am not sure about, the Max damage should be 10d6+(4xCon) for a 9th lvl Formulae so say with a +10 Mod max damage would be 100 damage which I dont think is that much at all, its basically an empowered lightning bolt. Let me know where the 29d6 came from, unless you thought I meant your +Constitution instead of +Con Mod, if thats the case I apologize. As for the abilities, i thought it was said that the effect is tied to the lvl of the Formulae, so a 3lvl Formulae would Trip but nothing else, the only one that combines is the 9th lvl. Does that Help clear anything up?

The problem is the bit where you assume a +10 Constitution modifier. If we assume a much more realistic +16 modifier--because you're investing every resource you have into that score--you end up with an average of 99 damage, or roughly 28d6.

I wasn't complaining about being able to stack effects. I was merely pointing out tremor alone has about one-third the number of effects that an arcane circle would contain. That's a lot.



+6 at 2nd lvl isnt that bad especially since he can always be ignored by the enemy as is the problem with most Tank-type characters.

I'm not sure what being ignored by the enemy has to do with anything. I've never been evaluating this class as a "keep the enemy from damaging other people" class. I've been looking at it from the perspective of "How possible is this thing to kill?"

And, from that perspective, +6 AC from a rage is a lot. Bear in mind that that's on top of your armor, shield, and pre-existing Constitution modifier. At 2nd level, that's...hrm, 26 AC? Just a guess. That's pretty damn high for that early in the game.



This I am not sure about. I agree that an AC of 63 is high but at 20th I dont think it will have that much impact except against mooks. The majority of that AC is all Armor or Natural Armor or Shield. Most things at the higher ends of lvls dont reallt care about Physical AC. Im going to do break down per lvl and see what the #s look like as they go up, but im not sold that 60+ ac at lvl is that much.

If AC is so completely irrelevant, why not reduce some of the craziness? By your own argument, it has no real impact. So, lowering it will also have no real impact.

Claiming that some things don't care about physical AC doesn't magically make physical AC go away. The current set-up requires a +44 attack bonus to hit on anything other than a natural 20. That's a pretty big attack bonus. Hell, even your touch AC is 36.



Whispered Secrets I was going to do something similar to Barbarian Rage powers and allow acces to things like allowing you to choose a # of 5ft squares = to your Con mod that Tremor does no affect, add things like Powerful build, that goes into Large sized, that goes into huge sized, only while in your Sheath.. things like that

So...more abilities, you say? This doesn't do anything to mitigate my point about this class getting far too many features.



I figured this would be ok, so that you could wear really Heavy armor but still be able to up your AC. Again as far as the whole AC thing goes, im goona do a lvl break down and see just what it looks like

The point of wearing heavy armor is that doing so raises your AC. Compensating for heavy armor by increasing your AC even more seems to...sort of miss the point.



As discussed above, Tremor should only work on a physical surface. I wanted them to still have a way to deal with fliers, but I wanted the main focus of the class to be melee, thus the half Shaper lvl.

And, again, the damage from tremor is so mind-bubblingly high that, even with a full shaper level on rockslam, you'd always prefer to use tremor. We're talking 5d8 versus 28d6.



The whole Att of opportunity thing basically means it uses up an att of opportunity for the rnd of which you have 1, or if you have combat reflexes more, however Dex would be a dump stat for most Whisperers. Thats the intention and I figured at 19th lvl it would not be too powerfull especially since it only affects targeted attacks... that might need more explanation tho.

Total cover negates attacks. Completely negates them. You're giving this class the ability to shut down any attack without using an action. That's...a bit much, even at that level.



I guess the main ideas for the class was to make a tank style character with some battlefied control. With the use of high lvl Tremors and Improved Control Earth, a Whisperer could be quite usefull for fortifications as well, outside of combat.

There is nothing wrong with that character concept. However, the execution seems rather haphazard. I'm not sure how "tank," "battlefield control," and "fortifications" add up to "spellshaper." In fact, they don't--spellshaping is really just tacked on there to deal with fliers, when you could have simply given the class a rock-throwing ability and a class feature that causes thrown rocks to force fliers to the ground.



As for the whole Armor Class thing, I would think that when you start getting into the higher lvls AC becomes less and less of a problem as there are just too many things to by pass it and things like Concealment, miss chances and immunites become far more usefull. To be fair too, I could make a monk and swordsage build, that with just basic items from the DMG could AC50 easy and thats no including the miss chances that Tob could bring into effect.

Right, but those items? Those are resources. I guarantee that you would put more resources into getting that AC 50 than this class takes getting AC 63. And, again, if AC is so irrelevant, why is it so important that this class have so much of it?

[Mathias1313]

Thanks for responding again Don, lets go thru your concerns again and if you could, how do you do the single quotes like you do? I Haven’t been able to figure that out.

See, this isn't actually a good reason to add spellshaping to a class. If you're including an entire subsystem, you shouldn't be designing the class with the intention of ignoring said subsystem. There are numerous different methods that you could use for dealing with fliers. This one is extraordinarily unwieldy.

My intent was to create a class similar to your Flamspeaker, in that it had Spellshaping progression but also used several other abilities to enhance gameplay. I understand I might no be using proper wording to express the reasing behind things and if not le me know.

You should never be advancing a progression simply as "a way to fill levels." Either commit fully to the progression, or don't. Otherwise, things start to break down.

I think I will be taking out the part where you have to have ½ the Formulae know as Crushing stone, I just don’t like the idea of an elemental Specialist running around using Formulae from other circles without even bothering with the chosen element..

They also use an entirely different subsystem--one that is designed to be used in conjunction with Constitution. Whereas spellshaping is designed to be used in conjunction with mental ability scores. Moreover, the flavor behind incarnum gives a very good reason for the Constitution focus: incarnum is a manifestation of soul energy. It is literally keyed to life. Spellshaping, by contrast, is arcane magic. It is manipulated by the mind.

This you are adamant about and I am more than willing to change. I could change the Spellshaping stat to say Wis and then leave everything else class based as Con. Thus pleasing both our thematic ideas I think.

The problem is the bit where you assume a +10 Constitution modifier. If we assume a much more realistic +16 modifier--because you're investing every resource you have into that score--you end up with an average of 99 damage, or roughly 28d6.

Even with that, that would be 10d6+(4x16) so 124 damage max. which works out to roughly 21d6 and that is only on a 9th lvl Formulae. 21d6 dosent seem that high, take for example Ashen Pyre, lvl9 Searing Flame Formulae, it does min 10d6 dam + min 2d6 for 8rnds, that’s 26d6 damage. As far as the damage, im just not seeing that big of a deal, the majority of the 8th and 9th lvl Formulae do more damage and better Save of Sucks. How about if I change it to + con only at 1st 5th and 9th, that would max out at 10d6 +(3x16)=108 damage.

I wasn't complaining about being able to stack effects. I was merely pointing out tremor alone has about one-third the number of effects that an arcane circle would contain. That's a lot.

By this do you mean they have a third more.. if so that might be true, but the effects are diff terrain, trip, bulrush, and dangerous terrain. Wheres the majority of the Formulae have things like stunning, dazing, ability damage, which are all far more potent.

I'm not sure what being ignored by the enemy has to do with anything. I've never been evaluating this class as a "keep the enemy from damaging other people" class. I've been looking at it from the perspective of "How possible is this thing to kill?"
And, from that perspective, +6 AC from a rage is a lot. Bear in mind that that's on top of your armor, shield, and pre-existing Constitution modifier. At 2nd level, that's...hrm, 26 AC? Just a guess. That's pretty damn high for that early in the game.
If AC is so completely irrelevant, why not reduce some of the craziness? By your own argument, it has no real impact. So, lowering it will also have no real impact.
Claiming that some things don't care about physical AC doesn't magically make physical AC go away. The current set-up requires a +44 attack bonus to hit on anything other than a natural 20. That's a pretty big attack bonus. Hell, even your touch AC is 36.

So these I will put all together as they are all in the same theme, the difference of opinion on the AC issue here. Keep one thing in mind, if you do the exact same thing you did to this class and do it instead to your Flamespeaker, you end with an AC bigger by about .
10 Base+SpellShield(7)+SpellArmor(10)+Imbued Armor(CHA)+Flames Blessing(Cha+4)+Flesh of Stone(Cha)+Dex
Now assume 18 in both Dex and Cha +2 each for lvling+5tome+6item+6Blaze=37 which is a +13 sta mod. Now take the above math 10+7+10+13+17+13+13=83 which is 20 points higher than what I have. Now lets just take away the items for Dex to make it completely even, the AC83 becomes 78 which is still far higher than what I have capable. And more of the Flamspeakers AC comes from Non Armor which means it works for touch AC as well. I did this only to point that AC stacking is not hard and with the Stable hide it gives the option of using normal armor even tho it wont be as high if you were to gowith the SpellArmor from the Warsmith
Having Said that what if I change the Natural Armor Bonus From Sheath of Stone to an Armor Bonus, then it wouldnt stack with normal armor early on and then I could add a Whisper at higher lvl to change it too a natural Armor.

So...more abilities, you say? This doesn't do anything to mitigate my point about this class getting far too many features.

As far as the features go, I don’t like dead lvls. I am not fond of any class that has them as it gives credible breakpoints. I prefer classes that give something all the way thru to encourage a player to play the entire class 1-20 instead of just prestiging out as is normal. It gives players asomething to look forward too as each lvl the get better at something .

The point of wearing heavy armor is that doing so raises your AC. Compensating for heavy armor by increasing your AC even more seems to...sort of miss the point.

Again I think we differ somewhat on what AC is really good at doing. But I can compromise, I`ll keep the ability to not slow down in heavy or Med armor and how about allowing half your Con mod to negate Armor check penalties…would that be better.

And, again, the damage from tremor is so mind-bubblingly high that, even with a full shaper level on rockslam, you'd always prefer to use tremor. We're talking 5d8 versus 28d6.

Well I think that I have shown that Tremor is not so high in damage that it is broken especially since it it limited to surfaces. And with tha change in Damage so that it maxs at 108 damage, that should be fair. The lesser Damage from Hurl Earth is to show the focus of the spell shaping more on actual melee or using Tremor than to use Hurl Earth, if it is that bad, I`ll change it back to Being able to use Rockslam normally.

Total cover negates attacks. Completely negates them. You're giving this class the ability to shut down any attack without using an action. That's...a bit much, even at that level.

Is it too much tho, I mean that’s lvl 19 and it’s the only defense against most spellcasters. Being able to do that 1 per rnd at 19 or possible more if you have combat reflexes dosent seem that bad to me, however to compromise I can change it to an Immediate action instead. Would it make a diff to you if I say, said it only worked against a ranged attack with an attack roll and that part of the action to block would be to make an attack roll of my own in order to block it and thereby keeping it as an Att of Opportunity or do you think it would just be better as a immediate action.

There is nothing wrong with that character concept. However, the execution seems rather haphazard. I'm not sure how "tank," "battlefield control," and "fortifications" add up to "spellshaper." In fact, they don't--spellshaping is really just tacked on there to deal with fliers, when you could have simply given the class a rock-throwing ability and a class feature that causes thrown rocks to force fliers to the ground.

Personnaly I think the class fits with the whole Spellshaping theme. To me it is more of a way to use said spellshaping energies in a more internally focused variation .

Thanks you for putting so much thought into everything Don, let me know if any of the above makes it better, like some of the suggestions I made. Also is there any way you could put a link to your Codice of Spellshaping thread in here so it would be easy for anyone to reference the material…. Plus getting more people to read your stuff is good. 
If anyone else would like to leave either suggestions or thought here plz feel free to do so.

[DonQuixote]

Thanks for responding again Don, lets go thru your concerns again and if you could, how do you do the single quotes like you do? I Haven’t been able to figure that out.

Quote tags.
Thanks for responding again Don, lets go thru your concerns again and if you could, how do you do the single quotes like you do? I Haven’t been able to figure that out.



My intent was to create a class similar to your Flamspeaker, in that it had Spellshaping progression but also used several other abilities to enhance gameplay. I understand I might no be using proper wording to express the reasing behind things and if not le me know.

The thing is that the flamespeaker doesn't have anywhere near as many "other abilities" as this thing does. You have your class gimmick, four elemental abilities at different levels, and a few utility spell-like abilities. Hell, one class feature is literally categorized in my notes as "Toy." I think that there are maybe three other actual class features.

You, by contrast, have an incredibly devastating attack form, along with several as-of-yet undefined abilities. Most of the class doesn't even care about its spellshaping progression. In fact, if you took it away entirely--replacing it with some resource mechanic for tremor--this class would stand on its own pretty well. Flamespeaker, by contrast, would be able to do very little.



I think I will be taking out the part where you have to have ½ the Formulae know as Crushing stone, I just don’t like the idea of an elemental Specialist running around using Formulae from other circles without even bothering with the chosen element..

Thing is, you're reshaping those formulae, anyway. It doesn't matter if it used to be a water effect--you're doing it with earth.



Even with that, that would be 10d6+(4x16) so 124 damage max. which works out to roughly 21d6 and that is only on a 9th lvl Formulae. 21d6 dosent seem that high, take for example Ashen Pyre, lvl9 Searing Flame Formulae, it does min 10d6 dam + min 2d6 for 8rnds, that’s 26d6 damage. As far as the damage, im just not seeing that big of a deal, the majority of the 8th and 9th lvl Formulae do more damage and better Save of Sucks. How about if I change it to + con only at 1st 5th and 9th, that would max out at 10d6 +(3x16)=108 damage.

Why would you compare the maximum damage? One rarely rolls maximum, while the average roll is...well, the average roll. And the average damage roll for tremor is roughly equal to the average damage roll of 28d6.

I never said, incidentally, that it dealt too much damage. I merely said that it dealt enough damage that it made formulae redundant--especially with the 1/2 shaper level on your rockslam attack.



By this do you mean they have a third more.. if so that might be true, but the effects are diff terrain, trip, bulrush, and dangerous terrain. Wheres the majority of the Formulae have things like stunning, dazing, ability damage, which are all far more potent.

I meant that they had nine abilities, whereas a circle consists of 21 formulae. 9/21 = 3/7. Closer to half as many effects as a circle, I suppose.

My point was more that they have this many things that they can do. Tremor could easily be expanded into the entire basis of the class--it's not that far off as it is.



So these I will put all together as they are all in the same theme, the difference of opinion on the AC issue here. Keep one thing in mind, if you do the exact same thing you did to this class and do it instead to your Flamespeaker, you end with an AC bigger by about .
10 Base+SpellShield(7)+SpellArmor(10)+Imbued Armor(CHA)+Flames Blessing(Cha+4)+Flesh of Stone(Cha)+Dex
Now assume 18 in both Dex and Cha +2 each for lvling+5tome+6item+6Blaze=37 which is a +13 sta mod. Now take the above math 10+7+10+13+17+13+13=83 which is 20 points higher than what I have. Now lets just take away the items for Dex to make it completely even, the AC83 becomes 78 which is still far higher than what I have capable. And more of the Flamspeakers AC comes from Non Armor which means it works for touch AC as well. I did this only to point that AC stacking is not hard and with the Stable hide it gives the option of using normal armor even tho it wont be as high if you were to gowith the SpellArmor from the Warsmith

False. First of all, if you went into spellforge warsmith, your blaze would never get past +4, meaning that the stat modifiers would only be +12. More importantly, however, a flamespeaker loses the benefit of the Flame's Blessing ability when armored. So, the actual AC would be 10+7+10+12+12+12=63. That's with two starting ability scores of 18, two tomes, and two +5 items. Oh, and you're splitting the ability score increases from leveling across two ability scores.

In other words, with twice the investment, the flamespeaker can reach the same AC as the earthwhisperer.



Having Said that what if I change the Natural Armor Bonus From Sheath of Stone to an Armor Bonus, then it wouldnt stack with normal armor early on and then I could add a Whisper at higher lvl to change it too a natural Armor.

I think you'd be better off changing it to an armor bonus without later changing it to natural armor. Instead, scale it up to +6 at 11th level and +8 at 20th level. Seems simpler all around.


As far as the features go, I don’t like dead lvls. I am not fond of any class that has them as it gives credible breakpoints. I prefer classes that give something all the way thru to encourage a player to play the entire class 1-20 instead of just prestiging out as is normal. It gives players asomething to look forward too as each lvl the get better at something .

There is a difference between giving a reason to play an entire class 1-20 and giving a class more abilities than can fit on a character sheet. Remember, a normal spellshaping progression would give you a new formula known every level--so you never level up just to get closer to gaining a class feature. That means that you can spread out the features a bit more and thin them out.

More importantly, class feature advancement can fill out levels as well. Limited use per day abilities can get more uses, bonuses can increase, and so on. These give you reasons to keep progressing without always giving you ANOTHER new ability.



Again I think we differ somewhat on what AC is really good at doing. But I can compromise, I`ll keep the ability to not slow down in heavy or Med armor and how about allowing half your Con mod to negate Armor check penalties…would that be better.

Given my suggestion for Sheath of Stone, I suspect it might be worth not bothering with armor at all.



Well I think that I have shown that Tremor is not so high in damage that it is broken especially since it it limited to surfaces. And with tha change in Damage so that it maxs at 108 damage, that should be fair. The lesser Damage from Hurl Earth is to show the focus of the spell shaping more on actual melee or using Tremor than to use Hurl Earth, if it is that bad, I`ll change it back to Being able to use Rockslam normally.

My point has never been that tremor was overpowered. However, the class's "focus on spellshaping" really is just "fuel for tremor, unless there's a flier."



Is it too much tho, I mean that’s lvl 19 and it’s the only defense against most spellcasters. Being able to do that 1 per rnd at 19 or possible more if you have combat reflexes dosent seem that bad to me, however to compromise I can change it to an Immediate action instead. Would it make a diff to you if I say, said it only worked against a ranged attack with an attack roll and that part of the action to block would be to make an attack roll of my own in order to block it and thereby keeping it as an Att of Opportunity or do you think it would just be better as a immediate action.

I think it's best for it to just be an immediate action. Having it work as an attack of opportunity doesn't really make sense, given how attacks of opportunity work in-game.



Personnaly I think the class fits with the whole Spellshaping theme. To me it is more of a way to use said spellshaping energies in a more internally focused variation .

And, again, I disagree. It reads to me as a way to use spellshaping energies as fuel for entirely unrelated class features. Especially given that you're planning to add the Whispers, I feel like you could easily just drop spellshaping entirely and replace it with some points-per-encounter resource mechanic for tremor.