My fur is silky, damn it! (3.5 base race) please PEACH

[Empedocles]

Credit for the quote goes to Gena Showalter (I found it with the google search "werewolf quotes.")

Okay, so, um, this race is not what I expected to be making next. The plan was some sort of elf-harpy thing, but after my half-elf fiasco (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239464) (which was bad enough that I neglected to put it into even my extended signature) I should make something I thought I could make work. So, I went on my usual cruise of brainstorming that occurs prior to the creation of a race. Said brainstorming goes like this: What did WotC screw up on when they made races? And bam. I've got an idea.

To actually address the question, and so you understand this race better (which may or may not make you like it :smallwink:) two shortcomings of the WotC races occurred to me. 1) They don't have an awesome tanky combat race (dwarf is cool, just not very badass IMO, and my half-orc fix more or less attacks this problem as well) and 2) You can't really play a human wolf in D&D.

Yeah, the last one totally isn't true. You have tons of options for wolfish characters in D&D (anthropomorphic wolf, werewolf, that lupus/lupin race or whatever from the Dragon Magazine Compendium, a druid that can wild shape, a hengeyokai (not sure about this one, but I know it can shapeshift), a shifter, etc.). The thing is, none of these options make me feel like a predator. Like if I'm tracking the bad guy the bad guy had better isolate himself in a giant ass cube of solid steel with an army of pitfiends and walls of orbs of annihilations and then hide on another plane because I'm snarling my way up to him.

This is a LA 0 race, so it can't really do that. Sorry. But that's the general level of badassitude I'm going for. So, without further ado, we have


THE HOUND
http://i.imgur.com/spLww.jpg

Look over your shoulder. Hounds are renowned hunters and vicious killers, famous on the frontiers of civilizations as great and feral warriors, and whispered of in the huge cities as mysterious cold blooded murderers. Indeed, although a misunderstood race, the hounds are undeniably a ferocious species and many have no qualms about killing for food or money.

Personality: Hounds are wild and crude, although those that look past these qualities often find a surprisingly dedicated friend (depending on the hound). Hounds are rude when it doesn't matter, such as when they're eating with their friends or joking with the party fighter, but become simply silent if the occasion calls for anything regarding etiquette. In combat, hounds seem to let loose their most primal personalities, howling and pouncing at anything within reach.

Physical Description: Mostly, hounds look like upright wolves. Their eyes are more, well, human and they're very tall, usually well over six feet. Hounds are very furry, and their pelt's colors range from black to red to brown to gold. Their legs looks like they should be on all fours, but are still quite muscled and although most hounds are lean, not buff, they give off an impression of being very strong.

Relations: Hounds aren't a well known race, since collectively they tend to hide away and when an individual achieves any level of fame or infamy people usually take them to be werewolves. Individuals may or may not have problems with hounds, depending on who the person is and who the hound is.

Alignment: Since they're a relatively feral, if not uncivilized race, most hounds are chaotic. A good number are also evil since they kill so freely although neutral is overall the most common alignment on the good-neutral-evil axis.

Hound Lands: Hounds have a few isolated enclaves on the fringes of society, where they live in a loose tribal structure. Most however, wander in small packs or by themselves, usually as mercenaries, and almost half of the hounds in the world don't live with more than a few others of their kind.

Religion: Hounds respect gods of strength and power. Kord is their most popular deity, and Hextor has a few hound followers. The tribal enclaves of hounds often have a sort of ancestral worship system, however.

Language: Hounds speak their own language, Gashivyk, which (as the name suggests) is a very rough language. However, they mostly all speak common as well and can learn a variety of other languages as they travel.

Adventures: Hounds love to fight, and what better way to do that then to adventure? That's really their most common motivation, since next to no hounds care for more material wealth then they need to survive.

Hound Racial Traits
+2 Consitution, -2 Charisma. Hounds are hardy and have impressive endurance, but quite gruff and some people even see them as socially uncivilized.
Medium. As medium creatures hounds have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Base land speed is 40 feet. Hounds are quite fast for their size, accustomed to running down their prey if they need to eat.
Hounds gain Track as a bonus feat.
Hounds gain scent as an extraordinary ability.
+2 racial bonus on all Survival and Listen checks. Hounds are readily suited to the wild and have very sharp (dog-like, although don't say that to their ears) hearing.
Automatic Languages: Common, Gashivyk. Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Any.

Racial Feats

Tooth and Nail
Prerequisites: Hound.
Benefit: You get a bite as a natural attack that deals 1d6 points of damage.

[Empedocles]

Reserved for some substitution levels and a paragon class, as well as racial feats :smallbiggrin:

[EdroGrimshell]

I love this, the title/quote made me laugh.

[Hyudra]

+strength -dump stat?
Bonus move speed?
Natural attack?
Scent + bonus feat?

Well, gee whiz. Who would play a martial type and play anything else?

I would not allow this at my table in the interest of fairness.

[toapat]

I think the prestiege should be named Bloodhound

Effects: Permanent Know Direction, Know Location, and Attacks ignore incorporeal miss chance, perhaps also boosts the escape artist score to 110, so that when taking 10 there is nothing that can get in the Bloodhound's way.

[Empedocles]

+strength -dump stat?
Bonus move speed?
Natural attack?
Scent + bonus feat?

Well, gee whiz. Who would play a martial type and play anything else?

I would not allow this at my table in the interest of fairness.

The bonus feat Track isn't super good. Any class that uses Survival a lot has Track as a bonus feat anyways at 1st or 2nd level.

The natural attack is almost worthless (1d6) but I might make a feat that gives you a bite and claw, and take away the natural attack without said feat.

The speed is good. I'll give you that. But strength is rarely a priority stat, except for classes that are Tier 4 or 5 anyways.

[Empedocles]

I love this, the title/quote made me laugh.

:smallbiggrin::smallwink::smallbiggrin:


I think the prestiege should be named Bloodhound

Effects: Permanent Know Direction, Know Location, and Attacks ignore incorporeal miss chance, perhaps also boosts the escape artist score to 110, so that when taking 10 there is nothing that can get in the Bloodhound's way.

I like it :smallsmile:

[toapat]

\Look over your shoulder. Hounds are renowned hunters and vicious killers, famous on the frontiers of civilizations as great and feral warriors, and whispered of in the huge cities as mysterious cold blooded murderers. Indeed, although a misunderstood race, the hounds are undeniably a ferocious species and many have no qualms about killing for food or money.

Personality: Hounds are wild and crude, although those that look past these qualities often find a surprisingly dedicated friend (depending on the hound). Hounds are rude when it doesn't matter, such as when they're eating with their friends or joking with the party fighter, but become simply silent if the occasion calls for anything regarding etiquette. In combat, hounds seem to let loose their most primal personalities, howling and pouncing at anything within reach.

Physical Description: Mostly, hounds look like upright wolves. Their eyes are more, well, human and they're very tall, usually well over six feet. Hounds are very furry, and their pelt's colors range from black to red to brown to gold. Their legs looks like they should be on all fours, but are still quite muscled and although most hounds are lean, not buff, they give off an impression of being very strong.

Relations: Hounds aren't a well known race, since collectively they tend to hide away and when an individual achieves any level of fame or infamy people usually take them to be werewolves. Individuals may or may not have problems with hounds, depending on who the person is and who the hound is.

Alignment: Since they're a relatively feral, if not uncivilized race, most hounds are chaotic. A good number are also evil since they kill so freely although neutral is overall the most common alignment on the good-neutral-evil axis.

Hound Lands: Hounds have a few isolated enclaves on the fringes of society, where they live in a loose tribal structure. Most however, wander in small packs or by themselves, usually as mercenaries, and almost half of the hounds in the world don't live with more than a few others of their kind.

Religion: Hounds respect gods of strength and power. Kord is their most popular deity, and Hextor has a few hound followers. The tribal enclaves of hounds often have a sort of ancestral worship system, however.

Language: Hounds speak their own language, Gashivyk, which (as the name suggests) is a very rough language. However, they mostly all speak common as well and can learn a variety of other languages as they travel.

Adventures: Hounds love to fight, and what better way to do that then to adventure? That's really their most common motivation, since next to no hounds care for more material wealth then they need to survive.

Hound Racial Traits
+2 Strength, -2 Charisma.
Medium. As medium creatures hounds have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Base land speed is 40 feet. Hounds are quite fast for their size, accustomed to running down their prey if they need to eat.
Hounds gain Track as a bonus feat.
Hounds gain scent as an extraordinary ability.
+2 racial bonus on all Survival and Listen checks. Hounds are readily suited to the wild and have very sharp (dog-like, although don't say that to their ears) hearing.
Automatic Languages: Common, Gashivyk. Bonus Languages: Any.
Favored Class: Any.

Racial Feats

Monstrous Hound
Prerequisites: Hound.
Benefit: You get a bite as a natural attack that deals 1d8 points of damage and two claw attacks that deal 1d6 points of damage each.

Flavor: tasty

Bonuses: as stated earlier, these guys make awesome combatants, and dump a very weak combat attribute. Now, considering that these are wolves that stood up and learned to speak, i can see why they dont have wisdom or int penalties. Their increased strength, increased land speed, and bonuses to tracking make them very good barbarians. If this is really LA +0, its pushing it, way harder then Drow is weighing itself down out of LA +2.

Monsterous Hound: I believe a better name for this feat would be Tooth and Nail, if that name isnt already taken. i dont know how powerful natural attacks are though, but it seems like it would be balanced because of the then need to pick up Multiweapon Fighting to be able to hit things effectively

[Empedocles]

Flavor: tasty

Bonuses: as stated earlier, these guys make awesome combatants, and dump a very weak combat attribute. Now, considering that these are wolves that stood up and learned to speak, i can see why they dont have wisdom or int penalties. Their increased strength, increased land speed, and bonuses to tracking make them very good barbarians. If this is really LA +0, its pushing it, way harder then Drow is weighing itself down out of LA +2.

Monsterous Hound: I believe a better name for this feat would be Tooth and Nail, if that name isnt already taken. i dont know how powerful natural attacks are though, but it seems like it would be balanced because of the then need to pick up Multiweapon Fighting to be able to hit things effectively

Natural attacks are pretty much only good for totemists and monsters. It's not a very strong ability.

I agree that this is on the stronger side of LA 0, but I personally don't have a problem with that. Ever since dragonwrought kobolds were invented LA went out the window :smallwink: I'll think about cutting back on their power though.

[Ziegander]

Natural attacks are WAY better than you're giving them credit for. Even with just a natural bite attack, you could, at 1st level, full attack with a Greatsword at, say, 2d6+6 (that racial +2 to Str helps guarantee an 18), with a +5 attack bonus and get your bite as a secondary attack dealing 1d6+2 with a +0 attack bonus. That's better than two-weapon fighting and it didn't cost any feats.

Now that you've gotten rid of the 1d6 bite, and offered a ridiculously powerful feat, I would take that feat every time. Instead of wielding a Greatsword, now I just tear into people with my natural attacks, full attacking for 1d8+6 (Bite) with a +5 attack bonus, 1d6+2 (Claw 1) with a +0 attack bonus, and 1d6+2 (Claw 2) with a +0 attack bonus. That's awesome. And since you don't specify with are primary and which are secondary, I can switch that up so that the Claws are primary and each of them gets a +5 attack bonus and each deals full Strength bonus, so that my attack routine looks like Claw +5, 1d6+4; Claw +5, 1d6+4; Bite +0, 1d8+2. This is three attacks at 1st level.

I just wanted to point out that natural attacks are totally sweet. Now, disregarding the natural attacks for a moment, let's compare the base Hound to a Dwarf.

+2 Str, -2 Cha compares favorably to +2 Con, -2 Cha, with +2 Str possibly, maybe, edging out over Con just slightly.

Both are Medium sized; however the Hound moves 40ft and the Dwarf moves 20ft. The Dwarf can move 20ft in Heavy Armor. Edge definitely still goes to the Hound.

Track bonus feat vs Weapon Familiarity. Slight edge goes to Hound, I believe just for adding versatility.

Scent vs Darkvision. Probably equal.

Bonuses to Survival & Listen vs Stonecunning & Assorted stone related skill bonuses. Meh. Probably equal.

Favored Class: Any vs Favored Class: Fighter. Slight edge to Hound.

Nothing vs Stability. Edge to Dwarf.

Nothing vs Bonus against Poison. Edge to Dwarf.

Nothing vs Bonus against Spells/SLAs. Edge to Dwarf.

Nothing vs Bonus against Orcs/Goblins. Slight Edge to Dwarf.

Nothing vs Bonus against Giants. Slight Edge to Dwarf.

I dunno, to me Dwarf still comes out on top. That doesn't mean that the Hound doesn't have its uses. Comparatively, the Hound reads like the offensive foil to the Dwarf. While the Dwarf gets a more defensive advantages than the Hound gets offensive ones, the Hound gets some utilitarian racial bonuses and its offensive bonuses are potent.

[toapat]

Natural attacks are WAY better than you're giving them credit for. Even with just a natural bite attack, you could, at 1st level, full attack with a Greatsword at, say, 2d6+6 (that racial +2 to Str helps guarantee an 18), with a +5 attack bonus and get your bite as a secondary attack dealing 1d6+2 with a +0 attack bonus. That's better than two-weapon fighting and it didn't cost any feats.

Now that you've gotten rid of the 1d6 bite, and offered a ridiculously powerful feat, I would take that feat every time. Instead of wielding a Greatsword, now I just tear into people with my natural attacks, full attacking for 1d8+6 (Bite) with a +5 attack bonus, 1d6+2 (Claw 1) with a +0 attack bonus, and 1d6+2 (Claw 2) with a +0 attack bonus. That's awesome. And since you don't specify with are primary and which are secondary, I can switch that up so that the Claws are primary and each of them gets a +5 attack bonus and each deals full Strength bonus, so that my attack routine looks like Claw +5, 1d6+4; Claw +5, 1d6+4; Bite +0, 1d8+2. This is three attacks at 1st level.

you are forgetting the -5 penalty that is immediately incurred by using natural weapons without multiattack.

[Empedocles]

I changed the strength bonus to dexterity, which was more thematically appropriate anyways. Overall thoughts on the race? Specific PEACHing anyone?

Also, I'll reduce the damage to 1d6 for the bite and 1d4 for the claw.

[Ziegander]

you are forgetting the -5 penalty that is immediately incurred by using natural weapons without multiattack.

That -5 penalty only applies to secondary natural weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#naturalWeapons). Primary natural weapons are made at your highest attack bonus. So, if the Claws are primary, then both swing with your highest attack bonus, and then you still get your Bite as a secondary at -5 from your highest attack bonus.

[Empedocles]

That -5 penalty only applies to secondary natural weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#naturalWeapons). Primary natural weapons are made at your highest attack bonus. So, if the Claws are primary, then both swing with your highest attack bonus, and then you still get your Bite as a secondary at -5 from your highest attack bonus.

Made the claws secondary.

[EdroGrimshell]

Made the claws secondary.

Why do they even have claws? A wolf's claws are blunt and only really used for better traction when running, even while standing upright i doubt the claws would be sharp enough to use as proper weapons (i know, i've been scratched by a dog's claws when they hadn't been cut down for a few years, they hurt but they aren't really all that damaging).

[Solaris]

The plan was some sort of elf-harpy thing, but after my half-elf fiasco (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239464) (which was bad enough that I neglected to put it into even my extended signature) I should make something I thought I could make work.

Aww. I like your half-elf.
Yes, I'm being nice and supportive. Tell anyone and I'll murder you in your dreamless sleep.
As for this one, while it's quite fluffily a hound it looks mechanically as much like a feline as it does a canine. I would've put the bonus in Con (dogs aren't *that* agile, but part of the reason we adopted them is 'cause they're one of the few critters that can keep up with us), and only given it a bite attack instead of a claw/claw/bite.

Favored class: Ranger seems thematically appropriate, but I don't know if you want to do that or not.

Either Con or Dex is actually more powerful than a boost to Str because only a few classes need Str - but all classes need Con and Dex. With a boost to Str, it's better at its job than half-orc - and that's a good thing.
A'course, it's hard to balance +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha without being in Pathfinder, which is why I'm not suggesting that.

All that aside, as presented I rather like this race. It's simple, sturdy, and it presents a definite archetype without being a straightjacket.

[Psionic Dog]

Excellent flavor.

This is... really strong for a LA0. You could call it LA+1 and few people would blink. In the interest of maintaining homebrew credibility I advise not shooting to rival the strongest race in a LA bracket. Just call it LA+1.

For the record, I generally consider the threshold for La+1 to lie halfway between Hobgoblin and Tiefling.


40ft speed - This is the primary reason I'm thinking LA1. Mobility is incredibly useful, and I can't think of any LA0 race with a speed of 40. The speed gives jump check bonus, aids in climbing/swimming, and all arround gives a notable tactical advantage over typical medium/small opponents. A Barbarian Hound can keep up with most anything short of a light horse.

+2 Dex -2 Cha - A useful physical stat at the cost of one of the least useful mental stats. Strong for LA0, on the weak side for LA1

+4 useful skill points and a bonus feat - Standard ability fill.

Scent - Arguably more powerful than Dark-vision since Scent is harder to find at low LA, but I'll call it even.
Natural Weapon Feat: I aprove. Racial feat option add depth to a race beyond included abilities.


So, you got a clear LA1 feature with... good L0 / mediocre L1 supplemental features. I think it comes out slightly stronger than Hobgoblins and Dwarves, weaker than the Planetouched.

I'd suggest going for Badass, make it LA+1, and add more features to keep it off the bottom of the bracket. Bump the abilities up. Make them +2Dex +2Con -2Cha or +2Str +2Con -2Cha, add a point of natural armor, and I think the Hound would be a sold LA+1 fit.


Edit: In response to @V
To clarify, no, I don't think Hobgoblins should have been LA+1.
No, I don't think Tiefling are the midpoint of what LA+1 should be: only that they clearly are LA+1 and near the low end.
Thus, my opinion that anything clearly better than Hobgoblin and almost as good or better than Tiefling is at least LA+1.

Yes, I think the +10 speed really is that good. No, its not worth a level by itself, but its worth more than a Dwarves' save and poison bonuses.

[Solaris]

Excellent flavor.

This is... really strong for a LA0. You could call it LA+1 and few people would blink. In the interest of maintaining homebrew credibility I advise not shooting to rival the strongest race in a LA bracket. Just call it LA+1.

For the record, I generally consider the threshold for La+1 to lie halfway between Hobgoblin and Tiefling.

I disagree. LA +1 should be worth one level. Neither hobgoblin nor tiefling is worth one level. The mobility and scent are the only eyebrow-raisers, but as Ziegander pointed out it really comes out about even with the dwarf, if not lower than. I'd consider this race on par with human, halfling, or dwarf, which is where the balance point for LA +0 should be. It's not their fault that half-elf, half-orc, and elf are simply sub-par. Those races were written before WotC really knew the game all that well (playtesting? What's playtesting?), and they show it. We've no need to handicap ourselves here.

[Empedocles]

40ft speed - This is the primary reason I'm thinking LA1. Mobility is incredibly useful, and I can't think of any LA0 race with a speed of 40. The speed gives jump check bonus, aids in climbing/swimming, and all arround gives a notable tactical advantage over typical medium/small opponents. A Barbarian Hound can keep up with most anything short of a light horse.

Hengeyokai: LA 0 with the official 3.5 version and 40 ft. speed plus shapechanging.

Nezumi: Humanoid with 40 ft. speed, and an ideal sorcerer class (higher Tier then anything this would be a good race for).

Lesser Shadowswyft: Better abilities and 40 ft. speed.

Don't have time right now, but I'll expand this list in a few minutes and address other aspects of the questionable LA.

[Empedocles]

Aww. I like your half-elf.
Yes, I'm being nice and supportive. Tell anyone and I'll murder you in your dreamless sleep.
As for this one, while it's quite fluffily a hound it looks mechanically as much like a feline as it does a canine. I would've put the bonus in Con (dogs aren't *that* agile, but part of the reason we adopted them is 'cause they're one of the few critters that can keep up with us), and only given it a bite attack instead of a claw/claw/bite.

Favored class: Ranger seems thematically appropriate, but I don't know if you want to do that or not.

Either Con or Dex is actually more powerful than a boost to Str because only a few classes need Str - but all classes need Con and Dex. With a boost to Str, it's better at its job than half-orc - and that's a good thing.
A'course, it's hard to balance +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha without being in Pathfinder, which is why I'm not suggesting that.

All that aside, as presented I rather like this race. It's simple, sturdy, and it presents a definite archetype without being a straightjacket.

Glad you like it. I'll think on the constitution, but I'd like to avoid giving it a favored class since that does the whole straightjacket thing, or at least suggests the direction this should go. I'll try to make it more of a canine and less of a feline...

[Empedocles]

Further reasons that this shouldn't be LA 1:

Lesser Planetouched exist.

Dragonwrought kobolds. Enough said.

A duskling class with incarnum feats or levels in an incarnum class can get much higher speed then 40 feet...

A dragonborn water orc has -2 to all mental stats and +4 strength and +4 constitution. Which would you rather have as a barbarian bruiser?

The warforged has the constitution bonus (I'm about to change the hound's bonus to constitution) and TONS of immunities, which I would usually take over speed.

Asherati can go move underground at will...

Aventi have a swim speed of 30 ft. which (granted) is situational, but it's still a new form of movement opened up.

Darfellan have a swim speed of 40 feet plus a 20 ft. land speed and a free natural attack PLUS underwater blindsense.

Hadozee have a dexterity bonus and a charisma penalty and never take damage from falls.

Just a few examples :smallwink:

[Psionic Dog]

Hengeyokai: LA 0 with the official 3.5 version and 40 ft. speed plus shapechanging.

Nezumi: Humanoid with 40 ft. speed, and an ideal sorcerer class (higher Tier then anything this would be a good race for).

Lesser Shadowswyft: Better abilities and 40 ft. speed.

Don't have time right now, but I'll expand this list in a few minutes and address other aspects of the questionable LA.

Ok, if you're playing with lessor plane touched and Dragon Dragonwrought Kobolds as balanced races then yes, the Hound as presented would be LA 0. My Bad for assuming you had any intention of staying in line with the SRD. :smalltongue:

Mind telling what books the Hengeyokai, Nezumi, and Lesser Shadowswyft are from? I'm trying to put together a speed build for the local 3.5 Arena Tournament and could really use a starting point higher than 30ft.

Edit: never mind, found them. Google-fu chose not to fail me today.

[Empedocles]

Ok, if you're playing with lessor plane touched and Dragon Dragonwrought Kobolds as balanced races then yes, the Hound as presented would be LA 0. My Bad for assuming you had any intention of staying in line with the SRD. :smalltongue:

Mind telling what books the Hengeyokai, Nezumi, and Lesser Shadowswyft are from? I'm trying to put together a speed build for the local 3.5 Arena Tournament and could really use a starting point higher than 30ft.

Edit: never mind, found them. Google-fu chose not to fail me today.

I didn't say the dragonwrought kobolds were balanced, but they're not necessarily worth more then a level and there's a lot of cheese involved with having a dragonwrought kobold.

[toapat]

I didn't say the dragonwrought kobolds were balanced, but they're not necessarily worth more then a level and there's a lot of cheese involved with having a dragonwrought kobold.

i thought the balancing of Dragonwrought Kobold was the sacrifice of your first feat slot completely

[Empedocles]

i thought the balancing of Dragonwrought Kobold was the sacrifice of your first feat slot completely

Haha...you are joking, right?

[Empedocles]

i thought the balancing of Dragonwrought Kobold was the sacrifice of your first feat slot completely

Haha...you are joking, right?

[toapat]

well, dragonwrought kobold is a feat that applies a template to you

although ya, it is pretty nuts that it is a LA 0 race

[Empedocles]

well, dragonwrought kobold is a feat that applies a template to you

although ya, it is pretty nuts that it is a LA 0 race

Agreed.

But I stand by saying that this is definitely NOT a LA +1 race :smallsmile:

[Ziegander]

No, it's definitely not LA +0 it definitely is a Level Adjustment +0 as Dwarf and Human still rival it in usefulness even if they don't beat it. I preferred the Hound when it had the Strength bonus personally.

EDIT: Ugh, I hate when I mess up a post by messing up a single number/letter.

[Mr.Moron]

The biggest thing this race provides that I can't elsewhere is the +10ft over standard movement speed. Scent is kind of nice but is narrow, really only of value against invisibles.

I'm not sure this is worth more than the myriad of saving throws that Dwarves get, or the flexibility of human.

I really want to something unique and useful in addition to what's here to make it really attractive. Between the picture +CON bonus and general description these guys scream "Rough and Tough" as opposed to say a the "Steady and Resilient" of a dwarf. I'd put in ability to reflect that. Maybe something like

Tenacity - A hound is not killed until they have a number of negative hit points equal to 10 + their character level rather than 10.

This isn't quite a whole feat (it's strictly worse than improved toughness), but track is pretty crappy to being with so together it feels like a more complete bonus.

That's just an example.

It'd be nice if a clause would be put in something like
"If a Hound would gain Track as a bonus feat and cannot select another feat for that bonus feat (such as that provided by the ranger class) they gain a +2 racial bonus on tracking checks instead" just as a nice bonus to characters that would otherwise be missing out.

[Empedocles]

That's exactly what this needs...something very flavorful, but not too strong to put it over the edge and make this more of a ferocious dwarf alternative.

Also, I need to think on which physical attribute to boost. Thinking strength now, since dexterity encourages ranged attacks and constitution makes it more like a dwarf.

[toapat]

well, if these are wolves that stood up, if we go by SRD, then the +2s should be to Dex and Con. although that doesnt feel right, because then they become spectacular rangers

+2 to Con then, and give them +2 to the flanking bonus.

also, i got an avatar

[Empedocles]

well, if these are wolves that stood up, if we go by SRD, then the +2s should be to Dex and Con. although that doesnt feel right, because then they become spectacular rangers

+2 to Con then, and give them +2 to the flanking bonus.

also, i got an avatar

I'd rather go with the bonus to dexterity, or possibly even strength...constitution just doesn't make them an aggressive enough race.

What do you mean a +2 flanking bonus?

And congrats on the avatar :smallbiggrin:

[toapat]

I'd rather go with the bonus to dexterity, or possibly even strength...constitution just doesn't make them an aggressive enough race.

What do you mean a +2 flanking bonus?

And congrats on the avatar :smallbiggrin:

ok, so STR and Dex then, i meant only add the con

Flanking is a +2 attack bonus, these guys should get +4 because they are genetically compelled to flank, and use its advantage

took like, 6 hours to make

[Empedocles]

ok, so STR and Dex then, i meant only add the con

Flanking is a +2 attack bonus, these guys should get +4 because they are genetically compelled to flank, and use its advantage

took like, 6 hours to make

Ok...that sounds fair (the flanking). I still need to think on the physical bonuses though...

also, 6 hours is intense :smallcool: my avatar is adopted...

[toapat]

Ok...that sounds fair (the flanking). I still need to think on the physical bonuses though...

also, 6 hours is intense :smallcool: my avatar is adopted...

well, SRD wise, the highest attributes of a wolf are Dex and Con. Con and STR make this race pro melee, Dex and STR make them Pro Martial, Dex and Con make elves worthless.

I used Roy's Caseworker (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0491.html), topless Haley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0752.html), and Mrs. Tarquin the First (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html) for it. Gotta make sure i make a right and proper stick drow paladin with magic and illusory wing tattoos

[Empedocles]

well, SRD wise, the highest attributes of a wolf are Dex and Con. Con and STR make this race pro melee, Dex and STR make them Pro Martial, Dex and Con make elves worthless.

I used Roy's Caseworker (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0491.html), topless Haley (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0752.html), and Mrs. Tarquin the First (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0725.html) for it. Gotta make sure i make a right and proper stick drow paladin with magic and illusory wing tattoos

because elves' aren't already worthless...?

Looking at how you put it (pro melee or martial) this feels more pro melee...