I think I found a new trope

[Scowling Dragon]

Stephanie Meriame. The opposite of a mary sue.

Why do we dislike mary sues?

Because whether or not she overcomes her obstacles we know she will succeed. If there are no meaningful obstacles there is no tension, and if there is no tension we don't care. WOWing at the achievements quickly gets replaced with annoyance.

This is the complete opposite:

We Dislike Stephanie meriames because whether or not she overcomes an obstacle she will fail. If there are no meaningful obstacles there is no tension, and if there is no tension we don't care. Sympathy quickly gets replaced with annoyance.

[Sean Mirrsen]

These things should be posted in the TVTropes YKTTW section.

As far as I can see, this is very close to The Load. Any key differences you can think of?

[Welf]

Maybe add some examples?

[Scowling Dragon]

The load is a side character to the main character. Stephanie Meriames ARE the main characters.

The one that inspired me to create this trope Was Katia Morgana from Prequel: Making a cat cry after a recent update made me unable to connect with the character.

Maybe The main guy from NGE?

[Prime32]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FailureHero

[Scowling Dragon]

Hmm. I thought I was special. :smallfrown:

[Dr.Epic]

These things should be posted in the TVTropes YKTTW section.

As far as I can see, this is very close to The Load. Any key differences you can think of?

Yeah, most tropes have already been come up with. I don't see how this is new.

[An Enemy Spy]

Isn't that the Anti-Sue?

[Prime32]

Isn't that the Anti-Sue?Nah, an Anti-Sue (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiSue) is a Mary Sue who's rude, incompetent and ugly but is never actually hindered by it.

[Ravens_cry]

Such a character can be just as annoying to read about as any Sue. It can even be considered a kind of Sue as the universe bends around them to create failure, no matter how ridiculous it may be for them to do so.

[grimbold]

Hmm. I thought I was special. :smallfrown:

its ok
I think you're special! :smallsmile:

[MLai]

Hmm. I thought I was special. :smallfrown:
You thought you could defeat TV Tropes?
http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/the-living-tribunal-and-the-spectre-vs-unicron-and-primus-7694.jpg

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA~~~

[Scowling Dragon]

its ok
I think you're special! :smallsmile:

Yay. Thats some consolidation.

[grimbold]

You thought you could defeat TV Tropes?
http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/the-living-tribunal-and-the-spectre-vs-unicron-and-primus-7694.jpg

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA~~~

made my day :smallbiggrin:

[Ravens_cry]

The evil robot* has a Van Dyke.
My life is a lie.
*Yes, I know who it is.

[Irbis]

Such a character can be just as annoying to read about as any Sue. It can even be considered a kind of Sue as the universe bends around them to create failure, no matter how ridiculous it may be for them to do so.

Examples: anything that goes against Honor Harrington :smallamused:

[Ravens_cry]

Examples: anything that goes against Honor Harrington :smallamused:
Calling ol' H.H. a Mary Sue seems to be a popular sport around these parts, but I have not read the books, so I am afraid the humour is lost on me.

[Irbis]

Calling ol' H.H. a Mary Sue seems to be a popular sport around these parts, but I have not read the books, so I am afraid the humour is lost on me.

No, the thing is, once you go against HH, you can expect to be reviled by narrator/other characters/universe for everything. And I mean everything. Suddenly, you're stupid, dumb, ugly, your policies, even if best in the galaxy, fail and are hated, fact you won the war for Manticore (protagonists country) means nothing, being pacifist/hating killing billions of civillians is reviled, and you will die horrible death to some Deux Ex Machina later in the book. So, you basically become the 'Stephanie Meriame' from OP. This trope is so bad in HH series, that when you see anyone remotely competent, no matter friend or foe, they will be licking HH boots in two books tops, even if they hated her on introduction. Including not informing your country's security your prisoner just escaped exploding a few thousand people or feeling pity for HH when you actually catch her unaware and limiting your firepower (out of gratitude for which HH just murders enemy fleet without opportunity for surrender once she realizes what's up) *headdesk*

[Ravens_cry]

This trope seems more a protagonist trope rather then a side effect of living in a universe with a DEFCON 1 Mary Sue like you are describing.

[Gnoman]

Since the subject of TVtropes has been raised, what would the trope be for works such as Turtledove's various series or Griffin's Corps or Men In Blue series that don't have a protagonist? (The sort of work I'm referring to have a large number of "viewpoint characters" that you see the various events through. Often, though not always, these will be from multiple sides in the various conflicts of the series, and the closest thing that you'll find to a protagonist is a group or groups. For example, the "protagonist" in Griffin's The Corps (a series of historical novels taking place during WWII and the Korean Police Action) is the United States Marine Corps.)

[Prime32]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SwitchingPOV or one of the things linked on that page.

[Gnoman]

Yeah, that's pretty close.

[Nekura]

So I am curious why you wanted to name it Stephanie Meriames. Did some searches didn't find anything. Mary sue was named after a character someone wrote did you write a story with a character named Stephanie Meriames or did you just pick a random first name that start with s and then a random last name starting with m so it would be somewhat backwards?

[Scowling Dragon]

First I took the name "Mary sue", which sounds like this ultra perfect rosy name.

Then I flipped it around and lengthened it. Now Stephanie Meriame sounds allot more miserable in a way.

You can just feel some misery in the name combo. Making it formal makes it even more ridged and kinda miserable.

[Mando Knight]

That is not how trope names work at all. "Mary Sue" is a trope name because of the Star Trek fanfic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanFic/ATrekkiesTale) (which was actually a parody of such fanfics!) starring Lt. Sue. (Who must die (http://www.interrobangstudios.com/potluck/))

A good trope title is one that makes its meaning readily apparent, either by referencing a common term ("Shipping" and "Mary Sue" are fairly well-known terms by even people only passingly familiar with fanfics, for example), or by being composed of a phrase that contains the trope in a nutshell. And, because TV Tropes has infected itself (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourVocabulary), a good trope title is often a part of the worldwide punomenon (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AWorldwidePunomenon).

[Scowling Dragon]

The name has evolved since its original conception to just mean poorly written perfect character.

[grimbold]

The name has evolved since its original conception to just mean poorly written perfect character.

scowling dragon is on point

[Hazzardevil]

I thought Stephanie Meriame sounded like Space Marine and was referring to how in 40K everything is doomed to fail eventually.

[Scowling Dragon]

scowling dragon is on point

What does that meen? Does that meen Im wrong?

[Wardog]

You thought you could defeat TV Tropes?
http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/the-living-tribunal-and-the-spectre-vs-unicron-and-primus-7694.jpg

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA~~~

Is that a planet that Unicron is holding?

Because while I can get Unicron being big enough to hold a planet, that means those spaceships are humongous.

(Although, given the size inconsistancies in the battle against Unicron in The Transformers: The Movie, I suppose that is only to be expected).

[Tengu_temp]

Proper scale? In my Transformers? Heresy! (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Scale)

[Mando Knight]

Proper scale? In my Transformers? Heresy! (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Scale)

Even the newer series disbelieve in conservation of mass.

http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/6/6c/DarknessRising3-Arceesizechange.jpg

[Ravens_cry]

Proper scale? In my Transformers? Heresy! (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Scale)
I am not a Transformers fan, but I must admire the tongue in cheek nature of the wiki.:smallbiggrin:

[Mando Knight]

I am not a Transformers fan, but I must admire the tongue in cheek nature of the wiki.:smallbiggrin:

Come for the robots, stay for the captioned robots.

[Eric Tolle]

Hmm. I thought I was special. :smallfrown:

It's almost like no matter what obstacles you attempted to surmount, you were doomed to fail! :smallbiggrin: