Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solution

[DeadManSleeping]

Welcome to the Relationship Woes and Advice thread, home of any questions you may have: romantic or familial or friendship, we'll answer (or try to answer) them all. Five years old and growing. This isn't a trade economy- feel free to ask if you have a question, even if you haven't ever given advice and don't intend to start. We won't stone you or ignore you or anything. All we ask is to know how a situation ends up, either in this thread or through a PM.

Here are the basics.

The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.


Rules Of Relationships:
#1- Communicate. If you can't talk with your partner, it's probably not going to work.

#2- Be yourself. Admittedly, if you have some really bad habits you should probably try to change them, but be honest about who you are. No one wants to find out they were loving a lie, and no one likes to live a lie (...well, normally).

#3- Accept your partner. In mine, and other people's, experience you have to be able to accept your partner as they are, because they probably won't be able to change. Also, don't change drastically for someone. I've tried it, my friends have tried it, it doesn't work and it doesn't end pretty.

#4- Hints. Do. Not. Work. Or they might, but the chance of that happening is limited. Some people are like me and just utterly oblivious unless it is blatantly stated, others are (also like me) and don't want to assume, and yet others don't care. You won't know which they belong to unless you actually spell out your intentions and/or feelings. I would consider this a corrolery to Rule #1 except that it comes up so often. Do NOT assume someone should know something from hints. Hints, by nature, are subtle. Clue Bats/Crow Bars/Mack Trucks are not. Try hitting them with one of those. ;) (No, not literally. I mean be upfront if you are trying to get someone to know something.)

#5- Don't be desperate. You don't need to be in a relationship and the healthiest mindset is one where you are happy as you are, even if you do not have a significant other. Don't stay in a relationship that isn't good if you aren't happy, just because you want someone. This is detrimental to both parties in the long (and sometimes short) run.

#6- Be a couple. Set aside some time every week to be together. Just an hour, if nothing else, where it's JUST you two. No computer, no others. Just the couple.

#6.5- Maintain the relationship. Ask your partner every now and then how they are feeling, if they feel like the relationship is still going in a good direction, etc. Also, make sure you don't hide it if you have an issue with your partner or a relationship. The only way it can change is if you talk about it.

#7- Let your boundaries be known. This goes for everything from intimacy to what you consider cheating to any other thing you can think of. Pretty much if it's something that would possibly upset you or your partner, let them know BEFORE a problem arises. An example would be letting your partner know you consider kissing cheating. They very well might think only intercourse is cheating. Having that known before anything potentially happens is a good thing.

#8- Know the signs of an abusive relationship. Both men and women can be abusers, and if you recognize the signs early on you are more likely to be able to get out of a bad situation before it gets out of hand. It's never easy, but if you know the general red flags, it can help you to avoid the situation.

A list (http://helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects .htm)- courtesy of Pheehelm

RULES. YOU READ THESE.
-Anything of a sexual nature, please PM to either myself or one of the regular advice givers. If you just want general opinions post something like: "I have this problem, but it is not board appropriate. Could one of you guys PM me?" I know from experience that you will in fact get help.

-KEEP IT NICE. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please don't be rude.

-Joking is all fun and games, within reasons. Please do not get derogatory.

-We are not allowed to dispense advice that should be handled by a professional, including psychological or medical advice.

I decided to put this up because, evidently, it was not apparent that these should be followed. I do not want this thread to be scrubbed again, and we were blessed to get it back.

So please - play nice, and if you're not comfortable talking about things over the open board, PM one of the regulars (too many to mention), and I'm sure they'll be willing to lend an ear - or if you're not sure who to PM, post asking for someone to PM you, and you'll soon get a response

-Syka

Previous thread: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time to Go Bar-Hopping (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227216)

[Heliomance]

Is the title apropos of something?

[The Succubus]

I'd have gone with a reference to Catch-22 as it's remarkably descriptive of many relationships and lack of relationships.

[Rawhide]

Is the title apropos of something?


I'd have gone with a reference to Catch-22 as it's remarkably descriptive of many relationships and lack of relationships.

*cough*

That's exactly what it is a reference to.

[DeadManSleeping]

*cough*

That's exactly what it is a reference to.

I'm glad SOMEONE is keeping up :smallwink:

It would have been more explicit, but for the character limit on titles

[Syka]

Three years old and growing.

Five, actually. :smallwink: It be half a decade old, and ready for kindergarten.


I'm glad to see the thread still around. :) Apologies for the absence without warning, there has been a lot going on in my life (both good and stressful) the last while. I just haven't had the emotional ability or time to handle much beyond my real life at the moment.

Sadly, this probably does not signify an actual return as of yet. I'll try to keep an eye on it and pop in every now and again, though.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Syka! *gigantic blue furry hugs*

Oh wait, something on topic, a woe.
Girl I was crushing upon and I agreed that we're both way too busy with college at the moment to start anything, so we'd see in some time/when we'd both have more time. But now for her new degree, she'l be going to college across the country, we don't live in a giant country, but still, it sucks. Means from 30 min of travel time to see eachother, it's 5+ hours. She says she'l still visit/come back from weekends, but yeah..:smallsigh:

[dehro]

5+ hours..in Holland?
buy a faster donkey:smallamused:

but yeah..I sympathize.
girl I wouldn't mind exploring opportunities with has been in Afghanistan for the better part of a year, will be there for another year and then probably move even further away.

[Dallas-Dakota]

I should, it's faster then the 4 1/2 hour of public transport+ half an hour of cycling from my home to the nearest trainstation :smallwink:

[Heliomance]

So I have a date for this Saturday. With the first girl I ever contacted on OKC. Just a friendly first-meeting coffee.

[Pyromancer999]

So I have a date for this Saturday. With the first girl I ever contacted on OKC. Just a friendly first-meeting coffee.

What is an OKC?

[Starwulf]

What is an OKC?

I "Think" it stands for OkCupid, which is an online dating site that is fairly popular by some of the singles in this thread ^^

[Dallas-Dakota]

OKCupid, one of the more popular online dating/meeting sites.

[dehro]

is okc a purely american thing, or is it actually fairly populated here in europe too? I'd hate to create a profile and then find out that these parts are mostly a saussage fest...and a small one at that.

[Heliomance]

I'm in the UK. Reasonable numbers of girls do use it.

[Grinner]

So I have a date for this Saturday. With the first girl I ever contacted on OKC. Just a friendly first-meeting coffee.

Congratulations are in order.

[DeadManSleeping]

As someone who's contacted like 20 people on OKC and had pretty much no luck, I guess I should say "congrats".

And don't worry about OKC being a sausagefest. You can search for females-only. It's a pretty "duh" feature.

[Augulus]

So, I live in my college's dorms, and we have co-ed floors. Which is fun and all, especially seeing as this super cute girl on my floor recently revealed that she has feelings for me. Thing is, I've heard that things like this can get nasty. Any advice?

p.s. I think I'm willing to try to make it work :smallwink:

[DeadManSleeping]

Advice: Give each other space. You will be tempted not to, because you have so many opportunities to be close. Make sure you do not spend too much of your free time on each other. You will both grow to resent it. Additionally, avoid being a jerk. If she's well and truly crazy, there may be nothing you can do, but most people are fairly reasonable, and will not hate you forever if you are not a jerk. Your relationship may end up not working out, but you'll still be able to live near each other. If she turns out to be a jerk, try to be polite after your breakup. If she turns out to be psycho, get some help from your RA and your friends.

Also, use protection. Good protection.

[Castaras]

So I have a date for this Saturday. With the first girl I ever contacted on OKC. Just a friendly first-meeting coffee.

Ooooh, congratulations. :smallbiggrin:

[dehro]

Also, use protection. Good protection.

this.

life is different for each of us. there are no sure-fire tips or strategies in these matters. just use common sense and talk to her if there's a problem. other than that, you'll have to figure it out on your own, and learn from your mistakes, like we all did. if it doesn't work, be honest about it with yourself and her.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Based on feedback from the last thread, here I am. (http://www.okcupid.com/profile/Tycho_Velius)

I fling out messages periodically, but I've only ever gotten two replies (one resulted in a meeting nearby, to overcome the whole initial 'is this person really Charles Manson' issue, the other seeming to go really well until it petered out over the weekend, unfortunately).

[Marillion]

So this girl is either the biggest tease in the entire state, or she is signaling me as hard as she can without getting an air traffic controller involved.

Maybe both.

The problem is, I want more from her than I am likely to get. She is just trying to stay single and "have fun" while in college, and while there's nothing wrong with that...Well, there are girls who I could just "have fun" with without developing those icky complicating feelings. S is not one of them. And I am 98% certain that I wouldn't be the only guy she's "having fun" with. And that's prevented me from making a decision one way or the other; A very large part of me is telling me go for it, that she acts jealous when I talk about other girls, that it'll turn into a real relationship, and even if it doesn't, that I can't afford NOT to take a chance on her. A smaller, but equally persuasive part of me is telling me that, knowing full well what she is looking for, it would be foolish and borderline idiotic to go for it when it can only end in heartbreak for me.

Bah. :smallsigh:

Though in other news, another girl-type customer has recently begun talking to/flirting with me while I am at work. I don't see her every day, but when we do we always chat and laugh for way longer than is technically necessary for me to do my job and her to get her food. And from what I hear, she is available. This S situation may have resolved itself...:smallcool:

There are far too many beautiful, intelligent, wonderful girls out there who may actually return my affections for me to waste too much time pining over a girl who may or may not return my affections. Whatever happens with either of these girls, it'll be ok.

[Reluctance]

use protection. Good protection.

If they're living in the same dorm, it's a little late to give her a fake name. :smalltongue:

Maeglin_Dubh: You're at a point right now where any attempt I could think of to improve it would risk losing your voice. Having both a voice of your own and a niche are good things. Heliomance may not be everybody's cup of tea, but he's good at targeting people who like his niche traits.

(Before anyone else here brings it up, being a nerd is not a unique niche. Being a nerd on the internet is like being a snowflake in a blizzard.)

If you've had your account for over two weeks, I might as well leave this link (http://www.okcupid.com/forum?sid=12) here. We're not exactly talking moderated, so understand that you'll have both trolls and people who are honestly misinformed. Still, there's good stuff there. Even without posting a thread of your own, seeing other people's threads/profiles and seeing what advice they're given can help you hone your own approach.

Speaking of which, if you tend to fall flat, it's always worth asking what sort of messages you send. Messages are at least as important as profiles.

Heliomance: If this is a brag thread now, there's a girl I started talking to last week. I've seen a lot of her since then. And I don't mean that I've been seeing her a lot.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Turns out the girl I had have a crush on was is lesbian.
Edit: Past tense is lying to myself
This is turning into somewhat of a theme for me.

[Grinner]

Turns out the girl I had have a crush on was is lesbian.
Edit: Past tense is lying to myself
This is turning into somewhat of a theme for me.

If it makes you feel any better, that seems to happen a lot. :smallsigh:

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

If it makes you feel any better, that seems to happen a lot. :smallsigh:

I figure she's still kinda really awesome and amazing and stuff, it just means we ain't gonna be more than friends. Close friends even, maybe, but no more. Aw well. I can live with that.

[Grinner]

I figure she's still kinda really awesome and amazing and stuff, it just means we ain't gonna be more than friends. Close friends even, maybe, but no more. Aw well. I can live with that.

Well......They say that where there's a will, there's always a way (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery_%28male-to-female%29). :smallamused:

[Sholos]

@Reluctance: You think you could take a look at my OKC profile?

[Augulus]

Is it strange that the last three girls I've crushed on/been with all have the same name?? lol

[Hawkfrost000]

Turns out the girl I had have a crush on was is lesbian.
Edit: Past tense is lying to myself
This is turning into somewhat of a theme for me.

Huh, its better than finding out they have a boyfriend, that way there is always a fleeting hope that they might break up and that then she might choose you.

Closure is nice.

That and the temptation to kill their partener :P

*i kid, i kid. please don't hurt me*

EDIT:


Is it strange that the last three girls I've crushed on/been with all have the same name?? lol

You dont know the half of it, my current crush shares my birthday and has the same name as my mother. :smalleek:

Still increadibly cute, and sexy, and a brony, and kinda sorta into Metal.

And she has a boyfreind :smallannoyed:

DM

[RabbitHoleLost]

Is it strange that the last three girls I've crushed on/been with all have the same name?? lol

An Abundance of Katherines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Abundance_of_Katherines), you say?

[Reluctance]

Sholos:
Flipping through RWA 21 (which is typo'd in the opening post, when DMS cares to get around to it) to find your link, it sounds like your approach is what needs the most work. Describe some of your dates. This sounds like you need more than an updated sales pitch to make nice with the ladies. The underlying product might need work.

As always, giving a couple of sample messages might help. The best profile in the world isn't likely to help me if my messages are about the violent, debasing things I want to do to the recipient. I don't think yours are anywhere near that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were overly dull and Nice Guy-ish.

The biggest thing with your profile is to be mindful of your competition. Meet Daniel (http://www.okcupid.com/profile/Dmarrs). I found him through your Similar Users. (You used to be able to see them on your own profile, which was helpful. C'est la vie.) Imagine I'm some hottie who has a thing for shy, geeky guys. Why would I spend a weekend with you over him? Once you understand the sheer volume of options available to - and presenting themselves to - any high-desirability partner, you start to grasp how much you need to stand out from the crowd.

But like I said before, share some initial messages and early date stories first. There's a lot more to landing a partner than making a good sales pitch. It's important, no question, but so is delivering a quality product.

[Heliomance]

If they're living in the same dorm, it's a little late to give her a fake name. :smalltongue:

Maeglin_Dubh: You're at a point right now where any attempt I could think of to improve it would risk losing your voice. Having both a voice of your own and a niche are good things. Heliomance may not be everybody's cup of tea, but he's good at targeting people who like his niche traits.

(Before anyone else here brings it up, being a nerd is not a unique niche. Being a nerd on the internet is like being a snowflake in a blizzard.)

If you've had your account for over two weeks, I might as well leave this link (http://www.okcupid.com/forum?sid=12) here. We're not exactly talking moderated, so understand that you'll have both trolls and people who are honestly misinformed. Still, there's good stuff there. Even without posting a thread of your own, seeing other people's threads/profiles and seeing what advice they're given can help you hone your own approach.

Speaking of which, if you tend to fall flat, it's always worth asking what sort of messages you send. Messages are at least as important as profiles.

Heliomance: If this is a brag thread now, there's a girl I started talking to last week. I've seen a lot of her since then. And I don't mean that I've been seeing her a lot.

I'm not trying to brag, honest. Just wanted to share happiness gained from unexpected success :)

Course, judging from my track record, anythingthat develops will last two months, tops >_>

[Moonshadow]

It's funny. I've noticed something over the past couple of weeks. Out of my... well, few friends, I've noticed that women will practically never initiate contact (I think 1 has initiated contact once over that period), while men on the other hand are very very likely to (at least 2 or 3 have initiated first if I haven't done it myself).


No idea if this is me or them or whatever. I just thought it was interesting -shrugs-

[dehro]

stuff.

I find that usually, when I'm not on the same page with the subject of my thoughts, be they thoughts of fun or something more serious... it's best to step away before I get hurt or worse, I hurt her.

[Trekkin]

There's this weird thing that's been happening to me of late: people keep getting scared of me. My friends, my coworkers, cashiers, even people I just introduce myself to all react oddly, in little ways. They get quiet and reserved and oddly twitchy. I've asked said friends about it, and apparently I just seem "intense" or "scary" or "intimidating", with all attempts at elaboration rapidly devolving into apologies for being unable to explain. It's apparently not communciable through texting, though.

Now, as much as I can put this to use corralling my players for Deadlands, it's a bit of a hamper on my social life, and I'm at a loss to explain it. As far as I know, I haven't changed anything about my appearance or bearing; I'm still the same relaxed hippy I've always been. Has this happened to anyone else? How do I tone it down?

[Marillion]

I find that usually, when I'm not on the same page with the subject of my thoughts, be they thoughts of fun or something more serious... it's best to step away before I get hurt or worse, I hurt her.

Pretty much. It's just kind of strange, how 3 months ago I only knew her by sight and now she's one of my closest friends. Good friends are hard to come by.

[fergo]

Course, judging from my track record, anythingthat develops will last two months, tops >_>

Hey, don't be negative :smallannoyed:. That's the worst possible attitude to approach a potential relationship from :smallyuk:.

:smallsmile:

[Sholos]

Sholos:
Flipping through RWA 21 (which is typo'd in the opening post, when DMS cares to get around to it) to find your link, it sounds like your approach is what needs the most work. Describe some of your dates. This sounds like you need more than an updated sales pitch to make nice with the ladies. The underlying product might need work.

As always, giving a couple of sample messages might help. The best profile in the world isn't likely to help me if my messages are about the violent, debasing things I want to do to the recipient. I don't think yours are anywhere near that, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were overly dull and Nice Guy-ish.

The biggest thing with your profile is to be mindful of your competition. Meet Daniel (http://www.okcupid.com/profile/Dmarrs). I found him through your Similar Users. (You used to be able to see them on your own profile, which was helpful. C'est la vie.) Imagine I'm some hottie who has a thing for shy, geeky guys. Why would I spend a weekend with you over him? Once you understand the sheer volume of options available to - and presenting themselves to - any high-desirability partner, you start to grasp how much you need to stand out from the crowd.

But like I said before, share some initial messages and early date stories first. There's a lot more to landing a partner than making a good sales pitch. It's important, no question, but so is delivering a quality product.

Okay, here goes. This is how it went with the first (and so far only) person I've managed to meet with from OKC.

First date I managed to land:

We met at a local Baskin Robbins (I chose this after she mentioned she hadn't been in years) for ice cream. It was really simple, we just sat and talked about this and that for 4 and a half hours. All kinds of things, really, from stories about our cats back home to places we've visited to random childhood likes and dislikes. At the end of it (which was mostly one of us actually noticing what time it was), she said, very enthusiastically, "We should do this again!" I got her number and said I'd call her. This was on a Monday.

Second date:

I was going to wait a couple days before calling her, but I happened to randomly run into her the very next day on the bus, so I took the opportunity to find out if she wanted to get together again before she left for the weekend. She agreed and we set a date for the next day at a local restaurant that she hadn't been to (I again chose). We met up, had dinner, and talked for a good three hours. Then I walked her home (aside from just walking her home, I live in the same direction and so would've walked that way anyways). We got back to her place and I asked if she wanted to meet again after she got back from her weekend. She agreed, but didn't have a good handle on what her next week was going to look like. I asked if Monday would be a good time to call, and said I'd call then when she said yes.

The weekend:

So, I know I had said I'd call the next Monday, but I got talking with a friend who managed to land himself a girl (seems every other guy around me barely has to try to find someone...) and got to thinking maybe it'd be cool in the future to double date. Now, because I'm horrible with remembering to do things (moderate-to-severe ADHD), I texted her (the girl I went out with) and asked if she liked bowling. That was it, pure and simple. Didn't hear back from her, but I figured she was busy with her weekend. Monday comes along, and I wait until late afternoon to make sure I'm not interrupting a class to call. No answer, just goes to voice-mail. I leave a message asking her to call back and don't worry about it.

The week:

Come Tuesday evening, she still hasn't called back or even texted, and I'm started to get worried. This is the start of a pattern with which I'm all too familiar in which the girl just up and vanishes with no regard to how it makes the guy feel. It's happened to me several times before, and hence I'm not feeling too good about it. I'm still refraining from calling because she's a fourth year chem major and even though I said that I'd call Monday, maybe she's busy or something. Some friends that night agree that I should wait a little bit. So I wait until Wednesday evening, a full two days (48+ hours) before calling again. Once again, it goes to voice-mail (not straight, but she didn't answer). I leave a short message asking how things are going and again asking her to give me a call back. Come Friday, there's still no response. I hop on OKC and find out that her profile is gone. At this point it's pretty obvious to me that she doesn't want to speak to me for some reason.

And so ended my brief flirtation with success.

As for my messaging, that gets interesting. I've actually had more girls message me initially than vice versa, so I must be doing something right, at least as far as initial messages go. This included the girl who I actually got two dates with.

Here's a very early message in our correspondence from me:

I agree. I actually liked the slow beginning it had. I thought it felt more realistic that way. And Alan Tudyk was amazing as Alpha, of course. I thought they really had a neat concept adn I'm sad it got canceled.

I see your open to suggestions for books and you like sci-fi and fantasy. Have you read any of Terry Pratchett's Discworld? I highly recommend the series.

I saw you like cats. Do you have any here with you or back home?

Here's one I sent as an initial contact to another girl:

Hello there. I was reading your profile and absolutely agree with your idea of a party. What other board games do you like? I'm also a regular player (pretty much every Friday night, actually) and am always on the lookout for new ones. Board games = awesomeness, so say we (my group of friends) all.

Here's an early message to yet another girl. The length of it was typical for our messages back and forth:

There's another place down on Preston that's all about organic and vegan foods if you're looking for an easy-to-get-to place (there's a stop right near it on the Outer Loop). What kind of place is Lemongrass? I think I've seen it, just never been inside. You don't actually need a car, but it certainly helps and saves tons of time. The trolley and city bus system can get you a lot of places, though, including downtown.

My favorite Poe work is definitely the Raven. There's just something about reading it out loud that is really fun. Then again, reading most anything by Poe out loud is fun. I definitely remember the Black Cat, though I was always more upset about the cat (comes from my possibly silly level of love for the evil little critters).

I can't actually think of a top xkcd in my mind, but the tech support flow chart is up there. As for other comics, if you're at all a fan of D&D, I recommend Order of the Stick (though you don't really need to be a fan to enjoy the comic, just might not get all the jokes). Sluggy Freelance is excellent if you have the spare time (updating daily since 1997). Have you heard of Darths & Droids? It's taking the Star Wars films and treating them as if they're a roleplaying game gone wrong. DM of the Rings does the same with Lord of the Rings. They're both hilarious, and Darths & Droids actually manages to improve on the story in some parts (like Jar Jar being invented by a 10-year-old girl).

This one actually agreed to have lunch with me and seemed very enthusiastic about meeting up with a couple of groups I was already involved with, but nothing ever came of it... :smallfrown:

Of the 9 girls I've been in contact with, I only initiated contact with two of them. Most of them I exchanged in excess of 30 messages before things stopped happening. Three of them have since gotten rid of their profiles.

[Rawhide]

All of these profiles being deleted... I need to ask two questions.

1) What happens if someone blocks you? Is it possible? Will it just ignore messages? Will it tell you? Will it show their profile at all? Will their profile appear to be "deleted"?


2) Were they perhaps fake accounts phishing for money?

[Sholos]

All of these profiles being deleted... I need to ask two questions.

1) What happens if someone blocks you? Is it possible? Will it just ignore messages? Will it tell you? Will it show their profile at all? Will their profile appear to be "deleted"?

I don't honestly know, but either way it's still an active avoidance of me, which seemed uncalled for given the circumstances.


2) Were they perhaps fake accounts phishing for money?

If they were, they were certainly trying to take a long and inefficient route. I had fairly extensive conversations with them and money never came up.

[DeadManSleeping]

@Sholos: first thought was "maybe you misspelled bowling" :smalltongue:

Beyond that, it's hard to say. Maybe some drama you never knew about came up

[Starwulf]

@Sholos: How long ago was all of this with the girl and the dates and the taking down of the profile? I'm wondering, because it kind of came off to me, as though she was just busy, and that she took down the profile because of you, but not because she was creeped out, but because she honestly felt a connection with you. You don't just have 2 3-4 hour conversations with someone you don't like or feel attracted to, that just doesn't happen man, not at all. The reason why I'm wondering how long it's been, is because I'm hoping it hasn't been that long at all so you can try contacting her again. Don't pull away from her just yet.

[fergo]

@Sholos: How long ago was all of this with the girl and the dates and the taking down of the profile? I'm wondering, because it kind of came off to me, as though she was just busy, and that she took down the profile because of you, but not because she was creeped out, but because she honestly felt a connection with you. You don't just have 2 3-4 hour conversations with someone you don't like or feel attracted to, that just doesn't happen man, not at all. The reason why I'm wondering how long it's been, is because I'm hoping it hasn't been that long at all so you can try contacting her again. Don't pull away from her just yet.

Agreed :smallsmile:. You don't know what's going on in her life right now, so it's probably best to just step back and wait and see what happens. If you don't hear from her in a week or two, then yes, she probably has found something else...

But don't let that get you down. Two massive conversations with someone you've just met? Don't worry about seeming awkward or anything on dates, you seem to be doing it right :smallwink:


@Sholos: first thought was "maybe you misspelled bowling" :smalltongue:



Ha! :smalltongue:

[Sholos]

@Sholos: How long ago was all of this with the girl and the dates and the taking down of the profile? I'm wondering, because it kind of came off to me, as though she was just busy, and that she took down the profile because of you, but not because she was creeped out, but because she honestly felt a connection with you. You don't just have 2 3-4 hour conversations with someone you don't like or feel attracted to, that just doesn't happen man, not at all. The reason why I'm wondering how long it's been, is because I'm hoping it hasn't been that long at all so you can try contacting her again. Don't pull away from her just yet.

It's been a full 2 1/2 weeks now. :smallfrown:

[Moonshadow]

You do have to realize that the vast majority of women on OkCupid are only there for attention and to inflate their egos due to the sheer number of men competing for their time.

Also, unless you're smoking hot, aka supermodel levels of hot, you'll probably not get much more than 1 glance if that from a lot of women on there. Because as their last survey went, 80% of all women on the site thought the men on there were below average in the looks department or worse.

[Grinner]

Also, unless you're smoking hot, aka supermodel levels of hot, you'll probably not get much more than 1 glance if that from a lot of women on there. Because as their last survey went, 80% of all women on the site thought the men on there were below average in the looks department or worse.

Eh. From what I've seen, women tend to be extremely judgmental anyway. Or at least more open about it.

[fergo]

It's been a full 2 1/2 weeks now. :smallfrown:

:smallfrown: Well, nothing you can do except stop worrying about it. The point you need to take away is that you did extremely well at the dates themselves. If she's gone off, it's through no fault of your own--you didn't do anything wrong.


:smallsmile:

[Maeglin_Dubh]

You do have to realize that the vast majority of women on OkCupid are only there for attention and to inflate their egos due to the sheer number of men competing for their time.

Also, unless you're smoking hot, aka supermodel levels of hot, you'll probably not get much more than 1 glance if that from a lot of women on there. Because as their last survey went, 80% of all women on the site thought the men on there were below average in the looks department or worse.

I believe it.

The site informs me that I've messaged more than 20 people. Of that, only two have replied.

It's to the point where sometimes I don't message interesting people, leaving them to be Schroedinger's Girl - so long as I don't message them, they can remain a potential reply, as opposed to when I message them and they ignore the message, like 18+ others.

[Eadin]

Turns out the girl I had have a crush on was is lesbian.
Edit: Past tense is lying to myself
This is turning into somewhat of a theme for me.

*hugs Gwyn* awwww.... I'm sorry

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

*hugs Gwyn* awwww.... I'm sorry

It's actually a lot easier to deal with, actually, because it's like... If it was some other reason I would be all like "But whyyyyy doesn't she like me" angst, while this way I'm like "Oh, she just isn't into guys. Gotcha."

[Serpentine]

Five, actually. :smallwink: It be half a decade old, and ready for kindergarten.


I'm glad to see the thread still around. :) Apologies for the absence without warning, there has been a lot going on in my life (both good and stressful) the last while. I just haven't had the emotional ability or time to handle much beyond my real life at the moment.

Sadly, this probably does not signify an actual return as of yet. I'll try to keep an eye on it and pop in every now and again, though.SYKA! \o/ I've been meaning to contact you and ask where you are and how you're doing for months...
Meet Daniel (http://www.okcupid.com/profile/Dmarrs).Poor Daniel's gonna get a whole lot of people looking at his profile all of a sudden, and won't know why...

There's this weird thing that's been happening to me of late: people keep getting scared of me. My friends, my coworkers, cashiers, even people I just introduce myself to all react oddly, in little ways. They get quiet and reserved and oddly twitchy. I've asked said friends about it, and apparently I just seem "intense" or "scary" or "intimidating", with all attempts at elaboration rapidly devolving into apologies for being unable to explain. It's apparently not communciable through texting, though.

Now, as much as I can put this to use corralling my players for Deadlands, it's a bit of a hamper on my social life, and I'm at a loss to explain it. As far as I know, I haven't changed anything about my appearance or bearing; I'm still the same relaxed hippy I've always been. Has this happened to anyone else? How do I tone it down?Can you show us what you usually look like, preferably including how you hold yourself, etc?
You do have to realize that the vast majority of women on OkCupid are only there for attention and to inflate their egos due to the sheer number of men competing for their time.I find that highly unlikely, or at the most exactly as applicable to the men on OKCupid :mad:

I've actually been pleasantly surprised by the large numbers of good-looking (by my measure), interesting guys on OKCupid. I've also messaged many of them, and responded to almost every message I've received (except messages that consist entirely of "hey" or "hi" or "hey sexy ;)", or from people who creep me out for whatever reason).

[DeadManSleeping]

I've also messaged many of them, and responded to almost every message I've received (except messages that consist entirely of "hey" or "hi" or "hey sexy ;)", or from people who creep me out for whatever reason).

Lady, that puts you in a severe minority. Do you want to see the metrics?

OKTrends on how women rate men (http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/)

I can't find one on the rate with which women initiate contact vs. the rate with which men initiate contact, but given that the site measures female replies on most charts and male first contacts on most charts, I'd guess there's a bit of a discrepancy.

Now, do I think that means most ladies are there for the attention? No. That's a bit of an absurd conclusion, especially since male reply rates are percentage-wise no higher than female reply rates (EDIT: Okay, not true, apparently. Male reply rate is like 40% vs. female less than 30%). But the base points raised are valid. Ladies don't contact men enough, and they think we're ugly SOBs on average.

Of course, maybe we're just not wearing enough makeup.

[Serpentine]

I know I'm in the minority. But if you're* gonna start attacking and insulting all women on OKCupid for some trends, why are you trying to talk to them anyway? :smallannoyed:

*non-specific

[DabblerWizard]

Trekkin Quoted

There's this weird thing that's been happening to me of late: people keep getting scared of me. My friends, my coworkers, cashiers, even people I just introduce myself to all react oddly, in little ways. They get quiet and reserved and oddly twitchy. I've asked said friends about it, and apparently I just seem "intense" or "scary" or "intimidating", with all attempts at elaboration rapidly devolving into apologies for being unable to explain. It's apparently not communciable through texting, though.

Now, as much as I can put this to use corralling my players for Deadlands, it's a bit of a hamper on my social life, and I'm at a loss to explain it. As far as I know, I haven't changed anything about my appearance or bearing; I'm still the same relaxed hippy I've always been. Has this happened to anyone else? How do I tone it down?

People who appear intense, scary, or intimidating sometimes share certain physical qualities that you might be displaying, Trekkin, without even realizing it.

Things like intense staring, scowling, looming, holding your body rigidly, fists clenched, etc. are the types of things people might be scared by. Shorter people sometimes find taller people somewhat scarier than people closer to their height. Emotions that could bring about those physical states include anger, irritation, stress, etc.

A solution: Try to relax your body, smile if you're actually feeling good.

You could learn more in depth solutions by talking with a counselor. I don't think you're crazy; a counselor / psychotherapist could teach you about simple things like body awareness and emotion maintenance, which could help, but I can't talk about them as they fall into the professional "advice" zone.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

I know I'm in the minority.

You are a minority, it seems. 10% response rate is rather frustrating.

[DeadManSleeping]

I know that feel, bro. While "average" is supposedly nearly 30% (and definitely higher for people who write longer messages than "sup girrrrl"), I've really observed it to be less. I feel pretty unattractive.

[arguskos]

I know that feel, bro. While "average" is supposedly nearly 30% (and definitely higher for people who write longer messages than "sup girrrrl"), I've really observed it to be less. I feel pretty unattractive.
Agreed. I've messaged a good 30+ people of interest, and only had a few responses (those died rapidly).

Now, I'm part of the issue on that one, but still, I can't be THAT horrifying awful to deal with. Right? Right?

[Qaera]

Ooh, Gwyn, can I have her number? :P *hugs*

On OKC, I've noticed about five times more messages when I'm female than when I'm male. It's weird.

QAERA's LOVE LIFE UPDATE: My crush is dating someone else. I think a girl in my Mythological Creatures and Fairies Club likes me. Another person, I wish would pick up all these signals I'm dropping. I can't hold all these signals.

~ ♅

[DeadManSleeping]

On OKC, I've noticed about five times more messages when I'm female than when I'm male. It's weird.

Did the definition of "weird" change recently? Is this one of those slang things where it's like "bad" means "good"? :smallconfused:

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Did the definition of "weird" change recently? Is this one of those slang things where it's like "bad" means "good"? :smallconfused:

Like, where 'weird' means 'perfectly normal and completely anticipated'?

[Moonshadow]

{scrubbed}

[Heliomance]

Ooh, Gwyn, can I have her number? :P *hugs*

This confused me greatly for a moment, as Gwyn is the name of the girl who I have a date with tomorrow :P
Thought you'd been stalking me on OKC!

[Reluctance]

This confused me greatly for a moment, as Gwyn is the name of the girl who I have a date with tomorrow :P
Thought you'd been stalking me on OKC!

Remember the old trick for public speaking. If you ever get nervous, just picture her in her underwear. :smalltongue:

(Non-snark, just go out and have a good time. Not euphemistic "good time". Look at this as a pleasant way to feel attractive, not a stepping stone to forever. The less seriously you take your dates, the more fun everybody has.)

Moonshadow: As one of the people who gets to sort through flagged material, you're overlooking how many of those messages are vitriol and fire for her not getting back to a previous message ASAP. Or occasionally pure penis. There's an ego boost to being wanted, sure, but unceasing attention can wear on you rather quickly.

(This does touch on why girls are often skittish about moving from pen pal to in person. Every girl has experiences where being within touching distance put a spin on a friendship that she was happy leaving as is. The vast majority aren't doing it to be attention whores. The proper solution to chronic foot-draggers is to move on. Simpler, and less stress for everybody.)

If you feel like a sock account, I'd like you to try an experiment. Pretend to be a woman who's old (50+), obese, black, trans, has kids, and/or has taken some other major hit on the desirability scale. I'd like to see more people see what the reality is like on the other side of the dating divide. It's a good challenge to your preconceptions.

[Drascin]

There's this weird thing that's been happening to me of late: people keep getting scared of me. My friends, my coworkers, cashiers, even people I just introduce myself to all react oddly, in little ways. They get quiet and reserved and oddly twitchy. I've asked said friends about it, and apparently I just seem "intense" or "scary" or "intimidating", with all attempts at elaboration rapidly devolving into apologies for being unable to explain. It's apparently not communciable through texting, though.

Now, as much as I can put this to use corralling my players for Deadlands, it's a bit of a hamper on my social life, and I'm at a loss to explain it. As far as I know, I haven't changed anything about my appearance or bearing; I'm still the same relaxed hippy I've always been. Has this happened to anyone else? How do I tone it down?

I've been told much the same thing. I'm apparently somewhat intimidating and very hard to approach.

Some tips I've been given: to not keep eye contact too much (for some people it's an indicator of attention, but for others it's a warning sign that you want to punch them in the face, apparently); to keep talking lightly, even if it's banalities (people seem to find my silences scary, but a blabber is somehow more approachable); to keep your hands always visble and never curled up (hands curled into punches is all sorts of aggressive body language even if you don't really mean anything by it except "my fingers itch"); to try to smile a lot and let yourself flop a bit so as to not be stiff, and such.

I won't lie, most of the time this is all pretty tiring stuff so I don't do it very frequently :smalltongue:.. But it's the advice I was given. You could try and see if it works for you.

[Astrella]

{scrubbed the original, scrub the quote}

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[Moonshadow]

{{scrubbed}}

[Serpentine]

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[Dogmantra]

{scrubbed}

[SMEE]

The Rainbow Mod: Thread closed for review.
Edit: Review completed.

[Erloas]

As for OKC, I think a lot will also depend on where you are. So far I've sent messages to 4 people (that I can remember) and I've received responses from 3 of them (the other one I just sent out last night, since I hadn't checked the site in a while before being prompted by the thread). Though only 1 of them ended up in a meeting and another was someone I sort of already knew. But of course there are only a hand full of people on the site where I am (at least women, I don't check out the competition). I'm also not sending out messages to someone that doesn't seem like at least a reasonable match.

At the same time I've never received an unsolicited message either.

I'm sure my success rate will probably drop if/when I start messaging people farther away, because the distance is going to be a problem (only city of any real size is about 150 miles away) and there is going to be a lot more potential matches for them closer. Which is why I haven't sent any yet.

OKC had one of their blog posts about messages sent and received and message composition. It was a while ago so I don't remember exactly, but there was a very low correlation between message length and response rate. There were a few phrases or words that had a strong correlation to not getting a response back. And women had a higher response rate then men but sent out much fewer messages to begin with.

And from something else I read it seems that women are much more selective at the beginning of relationships but it seems like men are more selective when it comes to making them long term.

I've always found the first steps, the unsolicited messaging/starting conversation as being the hardest part, and that is where women seem to have it easier. To me though it seems like the hard part for women is that many of the men that are good at that part are bad at the rest, so many of the guys that are "charming" at first tend to make men look like *donkeys* in general.


As for something else, after my last whateveryouwanttocallit, I think I'm going to be much more inclined to message/talk to/ask out women with kids. I seem to like them more, and on the plus side I'm much better with kids then I tend to be with adults, so I think I come off a lot better around kids and kids make it a lot harder to have situations where nothing is happening and things get a little awkward.

[Heliomance]

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbi ggrin::smallbiggrin:

That is all.

[Dallas-Dakota]

And we've set up multiple times we're gonna see eachother. On one occasion sleeping at my place so she can attend two days of a festival...

And I know from experience long distance doesn't work for me. Or maybe it were just those particular girls...Either way, my resistance is pretty much gone. There goes my rule of ''No LDR'' ><

[DeadManSleeping]

{Scrubbed}

[Serpentine]

Eh. In a thread that mostly consists of complaining and bad luck, it's nice to hear a positive update every now and then.

[Castaras]

Eh. In a thread that mostly consists of complaining and bad luck, it's nice to hear a positive update every now and then.

Agreed.

Although details are always nice. :smallwink:

[wadledo]

Hey, I'm pretty happy with my self hatred.

[Qaera]

This confused me greatly for a moment, as Gwyn is the name of the girl who I have a date with tomorrow :P
Thought you'd been stalking me on OKC!

You should give me her number, and yours, then. :smallwink: Glad to hear it went well~

~ ♅

[Serpentine]

WADLEDO! \o/
...
Aw.

[dehro]

Remember the old trick for public speaking. If you ever get nervous, just picture her in her underwear. :smalltongue:


because a boner is going to make things so much easier on a shy guy:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Frozen_Feet]

Dilemma time:

Romance with Miss A, a neighbour's girl, turned out to be impossible because she likes girls more. Oh well, it's start of a beautiful friendship nonentheless.

Really don't know what to do with Miss B, bar-hopping single mother. (Had coffee with her today.) My irrational attraction to her has largely vanished after a really awful cruise we were on. I don't want to cut ties with her, but I'm not sure if pursuing her will lead to anything but heartbreak for both parties. I want to see her happy and in good health, but I have no idea what that should actually mean for us.

On another hand, I have a mountain-sized crush on Miss C, my best friend. (Which I've confessed to her, note.) But she doesn't know if she likes me that way. She's walled herself in and is waiting for that unreal love-movie-crush to come along. She's also dating another man, but doesn't know if she likes him, either. (Curse her hemming and hawing.) I promised I wouldn't get jealous, but can't help it. I've pretty much concluded I'll just kiss her the next we happen to meet, with the problem being actually meeting her, since she's habitually annoyingly hard to reach.

Lastly, there's Miss D, a cool new girl I was in a concert with two weeks ago. (Met her on OKC, by the way.) Don't really have a crush towards her (yet), but she's nice enough I'd like to spend more time with her, as a friend or otherwise. She lives pretty far, though, so I'm not quite sure if logistics of a relationship would work out.

Part of me would just want to find Mystery Girl E and get over it, but it's somehow really hard to muster energy to socialize with strangers when my thoughts perpetually revolve around C.

[Dvil]

I actually really enjoy seeing the stories of success. It always brightens my mood, and it just goes to show that success can happen. Helps to stave off the self-defeating despair for at least a little while.

[rogueboy]

It's more than slightly unnerving to come across someone who you're friends with on OKC. :smalleek: Especially when, last I heard anything, she was dating someone. Especially since I honestly did not recognize her from her profile picture. It wasn't until her profile mentioned her being in the same program I'm in, and I looked at other photos that I recognized her.

edit: what, if anything, is the difference between "hide this profile" and blocking a profile? I haven't seen any option for the latter, but could see that requiring a more deliberate method. Can also see the argument for not having them distinct (simplicity). Found the answer. They're one and the same for appearing in searches. Separate from messages, however.

[AtlanteanTroll]

You know what sucks? I thought that the worse that could happen if I asked my crush out is that she would say "No" and would get friend zoned. Nope. She's been ignoring me ever since I asked her out ... Which really doesn't work well as she still sits at the same lunch table and is in a 6 person class with me. I'm going to end up saying something to her sometimes. Not to mention her ex is in our massive group. 25 people in our group and our school has less than 400 total. The only way she ever really says anything to me is if I'm talking to her BF (who is a decently close friend) and she decides to chime in.

It's not even that I'm even actively trying to talk to her. But boy is it annoying. I realize I've been turned down. No need to add whatever to whatever. I mean, woop. She said no. I'm not going to try and steal her away from him.

I think she thinks I'm still after her or something. Which is ridiculous. (OK, not really.) But her BF is my friend. I know some friends who happen to be girls have done similar. Such as when they didn't want to hurt peoples feelings or build up false hopes. And I think it's been establish that I read too much into things. Still, that doesn't mean I haven't realized I've been rejected. No need to put salt in the wounds.

I wish I had never even tried.

[arguskos]

So, ok, strange situation I find myself in, and could use some advice.

I have a dear friend, who shall be known as E. E is a wonderful girl who I met about 8 months ago now and who I fell for almost instantly. Now, there was a trouble. She was taken, quite happily so, and so when I informed her of my interest, she kindly told me that we could be great friends, but we wouldn't be together. I acknowledged that, and honestly, we've become great friends since then. I'm really quite happy about our friendship, it's one of those set-ups where we are open to one another about everything, simply because we know the other won't judge us and will probably have something useful to say about it. Basically, we are one another's advice columns!

That's not why I'm here tonight. Mostly, I'm here because I realized something a few weeks ago, namely that I'm kinda confused as to what our relationship status actually IS. We're more than friends, but less than lovers. There's no physical bond between E and I, but we're beyond mere friendship. It's almost as though we complete one another's minds when we're together. It's eerie. I don't know entirely how to explain it. I guess the best way is to call it "philia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philia)".

My question is this: is this a normal kinda thing? Do I do anything about this, or just let it roll and kinda go with it? Has anyone else had this sort of relationship, where it's more than friend but less than... something else? I'm just confused as to the nomenclature and if I should change my ways or anything.

[Grinner]

@arguskos: Most people just use the term "BFF" to describe that.

If you're happy where you are, don't sweat it too much. :smallbiggrin:

[Dallas-Dakota]

I know that feeling, have almost the same situation as you, even going as far as platonic kisses on the mouth(if such thing exists:smalltongue:), which we don't do anymore since she got a boyfriend. But yeah, just roll with it, or atleast that's what I do. For me the part that makes it workable is that she lives far away, so I only see her every 1/2 months(we do call eachother a couple of times a week though)

But yeah, tough it out and eventually some other woman is bound to jump into your life.:smallwink:

The other situation being, is that you're BFF's.

[dehro]

...

been there.. a few times. mostly with childhood friends and girls I've been intimate with and care about even though we don't/didn't love each other and have moved on.
it's the kind of situation where, on her wedding day, you take her husband to be aside for a minute and tell him with a smile on your face that if he hurts her you'll tie him up, coat his balls in honey and leave him naked on an anthill.
not to worry.. it's not so unusual, and honey is easy to come by.

[arguskos]

@arguskos: Most people just use the term "BFF" to describe that.

If you're happy where you are, don't sweat it too much. :smallbiggrin:
Eh, BFF both bothers me as a term (it brings to mind images of squee'ing 14 yr. old girls, which I'm not a fan of) and because it carries a connotation of permanency to it.

I am happy though, but I always wonder about nomenclature, because I'm herpderp like that sometimes.


I know that feeling, have almost the same situation as you, even going as far as platonic kisses on the mouth(if such thing exists:smalltongue:), which we don't do anymore since she got a boyfriend. But yeah, just roll with it, or atleast that's what I do. For me the part that makes it workable is that she lives far away, so I only see her every 1/2 months(we do call eachother a couple of times a week though)

But yeah, tough it out and eventually some other woman is bound to jump into your life.:smallwink:
Seems to pretty much be the way it rolls. I dunno, just felt the need to say something and ask if this was normal. Glad that it seems to be fairly known as a phenomenon, which makes me happy to hear (it reduces the likelihood that I'm just irreparably crazy).

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

That's what Best Friends are like, in my experience. No "forever" needed, on account of the afore-mentioned squealing preteen girl connotations...

[Grinner]

Eh, BFF both bothers me as a term (it brings to mind images of squee'ing 14 yr. old girls, which I'm not a fan of) and because it carries a connotation of permanency to it.

Then it was a poor joke.

[arguskos]

Then it was a poor joke.
Oh! :smalleek: Joke. Yes. I clearly checked out for a moment. Sorry dude, didn't mean to harsh your mellow or anything. I'm... sorta thick, at times.

[Dr.Epic]

Warning: the following message is 75% serious. Please try to wade through the bizarre humor.

Hey there folks! I got me a two part Romance Pants Type Problem*

Part I:
How do I hit on/flirt/chat with a girl online? Now before you start to think I'm some kind of creepy internet man on the creepy internet with a creepy internet plan, well, you'd be right.:smalltongue: But in this instance I'm not. I know the female in question. I used to go to school with her and have talked to her in person and hopefully I'll be back next year and be able to hit on/flirt/chat with in person. This is more or less I miss her and want to talk to her and possibly advance the relationship long distance style. I see she's on Facebook and this is really just a matter of courage to talk to her/I don't know what to strike up a conversation about.

Part II:
PM me for the sequel. (That's right, this part is direct to video)

*Actual Romance Problem may or may not involve pants and the addition of the word "pants" may or may not have been added to make a rhyme. Do not take the phrase "Romance Pants" as literal because that'd be gross and most likely inappropriate.

[Reluctance]

It's the Facebook. People friend each other there for all sorts of stupid reasons. So long as the profile is easy to find by punching her name in (or better, if she gave it to you), a simple "hi, was wondering what you'd been up to?" should work.

[dehro]

Warning: the following message is 75% serious. Please try to wade through the bizarre humor.

Hey there folks! I got me a two part Romance Pants Type Problem*

Part I:
How do I hit on/flirt/chat with a girl online? Now before you start to think I'm some kind of creepy internet man on the creepy internet with a creepy internet plan, well, you'd be right.:smalltongue: But in this instance I'm not. I know the female in question. I used to go to school with her and have talked to her in person and hopefully I'll be back next year and be able to hit on/flirt/chat with in person. This is more or less I miss her and want to talk to her and possibly advance the relationship long distance style. I see she's on Facebook and this is really just a matter of courage to talk to her/I don't know what to strike up a conversation about.

Part II:
PM me for the sequel. (That's right, this part is direct to video)

*Actual Romance Problem may or may not involve pants and the addition of the word "pants" may or may not have been added to make a rhyme. Do not take the phrase "Romance Pants" as literal because that'd be gross and most likely inappropriate.

I love the idea of Romance Pants, even though it conjures images of Edna Mode going "no pants!"..
that said..use the book of face for the only good thing it has.. the possibility to drop a oneliner regarding something she has said that can be taken in more than the way she just said it. in other words, make a joke about what she has posted on her status... if it's acceptably racy, even better.
not necessarily in public. can be a private mail too...depending on the joke and the level of exposure of your dirtyoldcreepiness it sends to your other contacts.
if and when she reacts to your joke with a positive feedback (a simple "lol" will do, I'm told).. take the chance to throw in a "long time no chatted" kind of thing.. get her in private chat somewhere well away from facebook and forget about facebook for the reminder of the situation. facebook does more damage than good... so.. get her in private conversation and be equal parts of interesting, interested in her stuff and amazing/funny to talk to.

if you can do all of the above, you're set.
if not, you'll fail miserably..
so... no pressure.

[Serpentine]

My most recent ex is angry at me. That's fair enough. But he has an uncanny knack for deciding to tell me so right when I'm already down.
Apparently I "really ****ed [him] up". Sheet. -.-

[wadledo]

My most recent ex is angry at me. That's fair enough. But he has an uncanny knack for deciding to tell me so right when I'm already down.
Apparently I "really ****ed [him] up". Sheet. -.-

Every lovely woman does that though. There's really no way around it.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Every lovely woman does that though. There's really no way around it.

Be that as it may, it's not something you tell the woman in question without malicious intent.

My most recent ex left me in all sorts of turmoil. We started dating the end of April last year, and with that time coming around again I'm remembering what I currently consider the happiest time of my life. And the fact that I don't currently see any realistic chance of reclaiming that way of life, or anything like it.

But I'll be damned before I tell her that. Her knowing that wouldn't make her life any better, and it won't make my life any better. And I couldn't stand to make her life worse, not for anything.

[Starwulf]

Be that as it may, it's not something you tell the woman in question without malicious intent.

My most recent ex left me in all sorts of turmoil. We started dating the end of April last year, and with that time coming around again I'm remembering what I currently consider the happiest time of my life. And the fact that I don't currently see any realistic chance of reclaiming that way of life, or anything like it.

But I'll be damned before I tell her that. Her knowing that wouldn't make her life any better, and it won't make my life any better. And I couldn't stand to make her life worse, not for anything.

Ehh, I don't think it would always be done with malicious intent. It might be done with the intent of conveying exactly how much they really meant to you. I did that once, in the hopes we could get back together again...and it worked. She said she didn't realize I cared about her that much. Of course it didn't work out in the long run, but still, there's no reason it might not work out for someone else.

[Eadin]

My most recent ex is angry at me. That's fair enough. But he has an uncanny knack for deciding to tell me so right when I'm already down.
Apparently I "really ****ed [him] up". Sheet. -.-

*hug* an ex if mine did (still does) that too.
Don't let it get you down, I've found it's usually because it's easier to blame youfor everything than for them to accept they might have done something wrong in the relatiobship too.

[Heliomance]

What's an acceptable way to express the general sentiment of "I love you" when it's too early in the relationship for the l word to be acceptable? Specifically in the context of
*girlfriend does/says something geeky/adorable*
"...I love you so much"

A friend suggested "You're amazing" for more general usage, but in that context the best I can come up with is "<3", which kinda works in text but isn't exactly pronouncable.

English doesn't have enough words.

[Reluctance]

I'm partial to "I want to **** you so hard right now". I don't know that you're the type to feel comfortable saying it that way, though.

Go hyperbole. "This is why I would fight off Visigoth hordes for you" has almost the same cutesy, with nowhere near the clingy.

[Carecalmo]

What about: "Your words! So beautiful and true! I must have them! *kissykisskiss*"

Or maybe just going the nonverbal route and patting her on the top of her head? Though that is inappropriate in many situations as well.

[Rawhide]

What's an acceptable way to express the general sentiment of "I love you" when it's too early in the relationship for the l word to be acceptable? Specifically in the context of
*girlfriend does/says something geeky/adorable*
"...I love you so much"

A friend suggested "You're amazing" for more general usage, but in that context the best I can come up with is "<3", which kinda works in text but isn't exactly pronouncable.

English doesn't have enough words.

There are the following words:
You're sooo cute!
You're sooo cute when you do that!
You're sooo adorable!
You're sooo adorable when you do that!

Or:
I want to kiss you so much right now!
(Has the added benefit of a possible reply of "Well, why don't you?")

Alternatively:
Play this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMr9zCvtOfY). (Hope it's the right one, won't load for me.)

[Qaera]

Just shout "LESS THAN THREE" until she accepts your marriage proposal.

~ ♅

[fergo]

Throw balloons at her. Constantly.

[Serpentine]

"I love it when you do that" or "I love that about you" could be a bridging thing.

[fergo]

"I love it when you do that" or "I love that about you" could be a bridging thing.

I prefer using balloons. But, you know, this might work as well.

[The Succubus]

What's an acceptable way to express the general sentiment of "I love you" when it's too early in the relationship for the l word to be acceptable? Specifically in the context of
*girlfriend does/says something geeky/adorable*
"...I love you so much"

A friend suggested "You're amazing" for more general usage, but in that context the best I can come up with is "<3", which kinda works in text but isn't exactly pronouncable.

English doesn't have enough words.

So don't use words - let your girlfriend see you smile when she makes you happy and when she makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, give her a hug. You can say a lot more that way than with a word.

[fergo]

So don't use words - let your girlfriend see you smile when she makes you happy and when she makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, give her a hug. You can say a lot more that way than with a word.

Or, you know, balloons.

Ok, I'm going to stop now :smallyuk::smalltongue:

[Serpentine]

Balloons are also a valid option, yes.

[Rawhide]

So don't use words - let your girlfriend see you smile when she makes you happy and when she makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, give her a hug. You can say a lot more that way than with a word.

This is actually quite a good idea. Tilt your head slightly and smile at her, nay, beam at her, in that special way until she looks at you and says "What?" - then reply with "Oh, nothing. Just... you."

[Maeglin_Dubh]

What's an acceptable way to express the general sentiment of "I love you" when it's too early in the relationship for the l word to be acceptable? Specifically in the context of
*girlfriend does/says something geeky/adorable*
"...I love you so much"

A friend suggested "You're amazing" for more general usage, but in that context the best I can come up with is "<3", which kinda works in text but isn't exactly pronouncable.

English doesn't have enough words.

I'm partial to "This is why you're my favorite."

[Qaera]

This is actually quite a good idea. Tilt your head slightly and smile at her, nay, beam at her, in that special way until she looks at you and says "What?" - then reply with "Oh, nothing. Just... you."

Intentional? :smalltongue:

~ ♅

[Heliomance]

Intentional? :smalltongue:

~ ♅

I noticed that too, but I doubt it, seeing as Rawhide doesn't come on the FB chat and thus doesn't know my name ^_^

[MountainKing]

Oh my word... I'm going to be pretty details-lite. Some older posters may remember my past woes concerning A, or not, ah well. In summary: an eight year long best friendship/romance-thinger has come to a screeching, abrupt end with absolutely no warning. A decided, for a number of reasons that I don't care to discuss, to cut me out of her life entirely yesterday. Her single most important reason (which I didn't even understand until today), is actually right. The bottom line is, there are some things I need to learn, and some areas I need to grow in, and she isn't the girl for me to learn them from. Apparently, there was some negative quality I was casting on her life, and her as a person, but I still don't understand that part. I suspect, I'll have to leave those questions unanswered for the immediate. So, she just... cut me out. More than once in the last couple months, she assured me, even promised me, that I would not lose her... and now she's gone.

I'm... doing okay... I think... I haven't spoken to her since yesterday, and I don't plan to... at least for a week. Maybe longer. I'm hurting, but in a stunning turn of events, in losing her, I seem to have regained my old social mask. For the moment, only two people know that I'm down; one I explicitly told, and one SHOULD be A... but, things sort of turned into a tiff at the end. My fault. She may know and not give a damn, or she may just not give a damn. No idea. Nobody else (well, other than you guys) knows what's going on in my head and heart right now... I think I'm going to keep it that way, at least for now.

It's a sort of cold comfort, knowing that I've found my mask again. My poker face, if you will. Rationally, I know it's not necessarily healthy in the long term... but I can't say how long I'll be wearing it.

Chin up, and keep a stiff upper lip, they say. It's a phrase I haven't had to tell myself in quite some time.

[Castaras]

*hugs* Keep yourself with your friends as much as possible, be it talking online or in real life. Eat chocolate. Keep yourself busy doing things. It'll hurt. But you'll get through it. :smallsmile:

[MountainKing]

I've sadly just about run out of people to talk to online, with her gone, BUT, on the plus side, I'm totally going to trivia tonight with a bunch of friends, and then I'll be hanging out with my best friend drinking and being a hooligan in videogames for the remainder. ...that sounds awfully short-sighted, actually, given that it'll only get me to about 4am tonight, maybe sooner, depending. But one thing at a time.

*hugsback* Thanks. I'll be sure to keep you guys posted if anything develops. At least, for me.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Castaras in on point: don't let yourself be isolated socially! Socialization is a great way to deal with things.

[Grinner]

@MountainKing: You've done some honest self-evaluation, and you're getting on with your life. Altogether, you seem to be handling it quite well. Good on you. :smallsmile:

[MountainKing]

I'd say the biggest part of my problem is that, I really don't have very many friends left in this town. They've all pretty much moved away, or gotten married and had children. I have a few friends left in Lansing, but the problem there, is that it's thirty minutes away, and my vehicle can only run safely for abooouuuut ten minutes, tops.

I have a big plan for making changes in my life that I've thus far been sticking to pretty well... A was originally a large part of that plan, even though the plan was primarily for my own benefit as an adult and a person. Without her... the plan seems kind of pointless, but... I'm still going all engines ahead full. Down the line, the plan may get a bit of tweaking, but... for now, I'm sticking to it. I'm not letting losing her stop me.

Admittedly, A IS one of the reasons. I honestly don't know if, later on down the line in the plan, if I'll be able to come back into her life. Handling my emotions on that fact rationally has been... difficult. While I truthfully do not know if she'd ever let me come back, at the same time, I have a hard time believing she wouldn't. We were best friends for the last eight years of our lives, and shared some feelings to boot.

HOWEVER. That "handling my emotions on that fact rationally" has also managed to keep me on track for other reasons. Specifically, the plan involves several steps that I truly do need to take, for myself. Maybe even BY myself. Remains to be seen. Plus, if I give up on the plan now, I'll just continue to be what I am... and being brutally honest with myself (and you guys), that's not exactly a flattering thing. It's a pretty pathetic thing, really. So, giving up on myself just because I've lost A is not an option.

[noparlpf]

What is flirting? Like, I'm not quite as sheltered as to have no idea what the concept is, but I'm asking for some help identifying flirty behaviours. Human social cues are so weird and often seemingly arbitrary, and a list of things to watch for (largely so I can make sure I'm not accidentally flirting) would be lovely.

[wadledo]

What is flirting? Like, I'm not quite as sheltered as to have no idea what the concept is, but I'm asking for some help identifying flirty behaviours. Human social cues are so weird and often seemingly arbitrary, and a list of things to watch for (largely so I can make sure I'm not accidentally flirting) would be lovely.

Don't worry about accidental flirting, I would hope (Well, if you have a paranoia of getting punched in the face by insecure guys, you might worry). Flirting is another way of referring to interacting with people you like, kind of like how chatting is talking, but less formal.

But some ideas (which are not applicable in all settings):
Flirting is....
-Talking to someone out of a group of people, without talking to anyone else in the group
-Making suggestive/dirty comments and jokes in a playful manner
-Touching hand/arm/neck/face or hair

How you know if you are flirting with someone successfully is usually either a body-language thing (which is difficult to describe in writing without going into treatise format), or if they start giggling/laughing.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Really, if you don't know, you don't know, flirting-wise. There's no line where "this is flirting, this is not". It's confusing. There is no definition. It just kinda... is.

[arguskos]

I've sadly just about run out of people to talk to online, with her gone, BUT, on the plus side, I'm totally going to trivia tonight with a bunch of friends, and then I'll be hanging out with my best friend drinking and being a hooligan in videogames for the remainder. ...that sounds awfully short-sighted, actually, given that it'll only get me to about 4am tonight, maybe sooner, depending. But one thing at a time.

*hugsback* Thanks. I'll be sure to keep you guys posted if anything develops. At least, for me.
DUDE WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN :smalltongue:

MK, dude, I'd be there for ya, you know... if you believed in being around some more. :smalltongue: You know how to reach me. You need anything, I'm here man. Just slowed down my activity, haven't left or anything.

Sounds like you're in deep right now and pretty down. I understand that dude, I really do, and if you need to talk or vent or just bro it up for awhile, know you can reach out to me, aye? :smallsmile:

[MountainKing]

Turns out a season of Archer with my brosef, whom I will call K, has been really good for burying emotions and letting me exist relatively unscathed. Healthy? Not forever. For tonight? Doing pretty well! :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: In retrospect, part of this post was a terrrrrible endorsement for relatively unhealthy behavior. Don't listen to everything I say. >_>

[Expladia]

Relationship advice? Find a geek who's geekiness surpasses other geeks in your realm but not your own. I'm marrying my geek this July. We are so frackin' hot and geeky together. Be jealous. ;)

[Moonshadow]

Sure hope you're signing a pre-nup.

[Frozen_Feet]

There is no definition. It just kinda... is.

Yes there is! :smalltongue: It's making playful, romantic and/or sexual overtures. It's right there in te dictionary. :smallwink:

[noparlpf]

Don't worry about accidental flirting, I would hope (Well, if you have a paranoia of getting punched in the face by insecure guys, you might worry). Flirting is another way of referring to interacting with people you like, kind of like how chatting is talking, but less formal.

But some ideas (which are not applicable in all settings):
Flirting is....
-Talking to someone out of a group of people, without talking to anyone else in the group
-Making suggestive/dirty comments and jokes in a playful manner
-Touching hand/arm/neck/face or hair

How you know if you are flirting with someone successfully is usually either a body-language thing (which is difficult to describe in writing without going into treatise format), or if they start giggling/laughing.

I'd be kind of amused if a guy punched me in the face. That might be fun.
Though I do tend to make suggestive or dirty comments and jokes in a playful manner more often around guy friends.
Either way, I just don't want people to mistakenly think I'm interested when I'm not.
Example of suggestive comment:
So the other night I was getting dinner. For some reason, they had cups like twice as tall as the usual soda cups. I guess because they do free refills they figure the size of the cup doesn't really matter. Anyhow, I put my cup (with soda) in one of my side pockets. A bit later a female friend notices I have a cup of soda in my pocket. She takes it out, realises it's larger than the usual ones, and says, "Wow, this is pretty big." I say, "Yeah, big things tend to come out of my pants."
And the face she made made it totally worth it. Otherwise it would have been me being juvenile, but instead it was hilarious.
Is that the sort of comment I should restrict to comfortably heterosexual male friends, and friends who know I'm just being juvenile, and not a thing I should say around a stranger/acquaintance?


Really, if you don't know, you don't know, flirting-wise. There's no line where "this is flirting, this is not". It's confusing. There is no definition. It just kinda... is.

Meh. I guess with my charming good looks and lack of knowledge of what is flirting I'll be forever warding off unwanted romantic overtures.



Relationship advice? Find a geek who's geekiness surpasses other geeks in your realm but not your own. I'm marrying my geek this July. We are so frackin' hot and geeky together. Be jealous. ;)

Congrats! n.n

[wadledo]

I'd be kind of amused if a guy punched me in the face. That might be fun.
Though I do tend to make suggestive or dirty comments and jokes in a playful manner more often around guy friends.
Either way, I just don't want people to mistakenly think I'm interested when I'm not.
Example of suggestive comment:
So the other night I was getting dinner. For some reason, they had cups like twice as tall as the usual soda cups. I guess because they do free refills they figure the size of the cup doesn't really matter. Anyhow, I put my cup (with soda) in one of my side pockets. A bit later a female friend notices I have a cup of soda in my pocket. She takes it out, realises it's larger than the usual ones, and says, "Wow, this is pretty big." I say, "Yeah, big things tend to come out of my pants."
And the face she made made it totally worth it. Otherwise it would have been me being juvenile, but instead it was hilarious.
Is that the sort of comment I should restrict to comfortably heterosexual male friends, and friends who know I'm just being juvenile, and not a thing I should say around a stranger/acquaintance?

Well, the trouble is do you want to never have women interested in you?
Because if you try not to have flirting behavior around women, women will (I assume, since I am not one, but I'm pretty sure this is a correct assumption) think that you are not attracted to them.

It's kinda like how it's not seen as entirely impolite to subtly gawk at a very attractive person, it's also not impolite to mildly flirt (I.e. don't make it a point to flirt, just do so naturally, like your story), as long as you are not flirting with someone in a relationship/you are in a relationship and your other is right there/in an entirely inappropriate situation (funeral, middle of company dinner, while in the middle of intense work)/when it's not actually noticed.

[noparlpf]

Well, the trouble is do you want to never have women interested in you?
Because if you try not to have flirting behavior around women, women will (I assume, since I am not one, but I'm pretty sure this is a correct assumption) think that you are not attracted to them.

It's kinda like how it's not seen as entirely impolite to subtly gawk at a very attractive person, it's also not impolite to mildly flirt (I.e. don't make it a point to flirt, just do so naturally, like your story), as long as you are not flirting with someone in a relationship/you are in a relationship and your other is right there/in an entirely inappropriate situation (funeral, middle of company dinner, while in the middle of intense work)/when it's not actually noticed.

It would be pretty nice if nobody, female or male, expressed interest in me. I'm not interested in romance or sex or any of that terrestrial reproductive stuff.

[wadledo]

It would be pretty nice if nobody, female or male, expressed interest in me. I'm not interested in romance or sex or any of that terrestrial reproductive stuff.

So you never want to have any sort of connection with anyone outside of normal polite conversation?

[noparlpf]

So you never want to have any sort of connection with anyone outside of normal polite conversation?

How am I supposed to tell people when they're being dumb if I'm never impolite? No, I just want to be more aware of how normal people perceive me.

[Rawhide]

How am I supposed to tell people when they're being dumb if I'm never impolite? No, I just want to be more aware of how normal people perceive me.

I think you misundersdood wadledo's use of the words "polite conversation".

Also, I wouldn't ignore the possibility that your mind may change on the whole feeling of not wanting intimate relations with anyone. I'm not saying that you're incorrect about what you feel, just that people change over time, and several people on this forum have realised that they are, in fact, demisexual rather than asexual. I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility that something may happen in the future, if I was you.

[noparlpf]

I think you misundersdood wadledo's use of the words "polite conversation".

Also, I wouldn't ignore the possibility that your mind may change on the whole feeling of not wanting intimate relations with anyone. I'm not saying that you're incorrect about what you feel, just that people change over time, and several people on this forum have realised that they are, in fact, demisexual rather than asexual. I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility that something may happen in the future, if I was you.

I have considered the possibility that I might be demisexual, but I'm close enough to aromantic that it's not my biggest concern.

[Pyromancer999]

How am I supposed to tell people when they're being dumb if I'm never impolite? No, I just want to be more aware of how normal people perceive me.

There's the key bit. You don't tell people if they're being dumb unless it's for something that has the serious potential to have a bad outcome. People, on the whole, do not like being told if they're doing something stupid.

[noparlpf]

There's the key bit. You don't tell people if they're being dumb unless it's for something that has the serious potential to have a bad outcome. People, on the whole, do not like being told if they're doing something stupid.

Well, yeah. I'm usually civil when I tell people they're being dumb.

[MountainKing]

Well, yeah. I'm usually civil when I tell people they're being dumb.

"What's so civil about war, anyway?" :smalltongue:

I dunno if you were being sarcastic about your good looks, but if you weren't, maaaaaaaaaan... for shame, says I. Rejecting the finer gender, basically out of disinterested spite? When they're apparently just throwing themselves at you left and right? I mean, you do realize how much a LOT of other geeky fellows would kill to be in your shoes, y'know? I mean, to be frank, I don't know how un-normal you really are, but uh... based on what you're saying, there's some stuff you've got to work through. I mean, it stands to reason (I think) that if you're flirting, even unintentionally, then somewhere inside your head, your brain is going "Mmm... ladies/gentlemen...", possibly while drooling a little. I know my subconscious is a mess, and I can only speak for what I know.

I guess, I'm just trying to say that, there's gotta be a reason you're flirting, even if you don't recognize it. I've been getting joshed around by my friends for years about flirting with random women, and I never realize it. Personally, I suspect "true" flirting happens when you're not trying. It's a thief in the night, so's to speak.

[Astrella]

"What's so civil about war, anyway?" :smalltongue:

I dunno if you were being sarcastic about your good looks, but if you weren't, maaaaaaaaaan... for shame, says I. Rejecting the finer gender, basically out of disinterested spite? When they're apparently just throwing themselves at you left and right? I mean, you do realize how much a LOT of other geeky fellows would kill to be in your shoes, y'know? I mean, to be frank, I don't know how un-normal you really are, but uh... based on what you're saying, there's some stuff you've got to work through. I mean, it stands to reason (I think) that if you're flirting, even unintentionally, then somewhere inside your head, your brain is going "Mmm... ladies/gentlemen...", possibly while drooling a little. I know my subconscious is a mess, and I can only speak for what I know.

He's asexual.

And Iunno, I don't think you need to be romantically interested in someone to flirt with them? Flirting / teasing is just something that features in quite a bit of conversations. *shrug*

[wadledo]

How am I supposed to tell people when they're being dumb if I'm never impolite? No, I just want to be more aware of how normal people perceive me.

I have very little idea what you are saying.

What I meant was, "So you don't want people to be any closer than work friends with you?"

[noparlpf]

"What's so civil about war, anyway?" :smalltongue:

I dunno if you were being sarcastic about your good looks, but if you weren't, maaaaaaaaaan... for shame, says I. Rejecting the finer gender, basically out of disinterested spite? When they're apparently just throwing themselves at you left and right? I mean, you do realize how much a LOT of other geeky fellows would kill to be in your shoes, y'know? I mean, to be frank, I don't know how un-normal you really are, but uh... based on what you're saying, there's some stuff you've got to work through. I mean, it stands to reason (I think) that if you're flirting, even unintentionally, then somewhere inside your head, your brain is going "Mmm... ladies/gentlemen...", possibly while drooling a little. I know my subconscious is a mess, and I can only speak for what I know.

I guess, I'm just trying to say that, there's gotta be a reason you're flirting, even if you don't recognize it. I've been getting joshed around by my friends for years about flirting with random women, and I never realize it. Personally, I suspect "true" flirting happens when you're not trying. It's a thief in the night, so's to speak.

I think that "flirting" can be a normal part of human interactions, and that the same actions can be construed as flirting or not depending on who's doing the construing.
And yes, I am actually that attractive.[/narcissist]


I have very little idea what you are saying.

What I meant was, "So you don't want people to be any closer than work friends with you?"

I've never had a job, but I feel like there are different levels of non-romantic friendship. But basically what I'm saying is that I'm not interested in romance or sex and I don't want people to misconstrue my actions as flirting when they're just me being my sarcastic, slightly ironically asinine, self.

[MountainKing]

He's asexual.

And Iunno, I don't think you need to be romantically interested in someone to flirt with them? Flirting / teasing is just something that features in quite a bit of conversations. *shrug*

Well, I suppose it could be base biology driving his subconscious to do it, but I think we'll have to disagree on whether or not flirting is romantic/sexually driven. I know I don't flirt with people I'm not attracted to, but everybody's different. Just seems a bit strange. I also don't think flirting with a friend and flirting with a cute stranger/coworker are anywhere near the same thing, but I'll digress.


I think that "flirting" can be a normal part of human interactions, and that the same actions can be construed as flirting or not depending on who's doing the construing.
And yes, I am actually that attractive.[/narcissist]

I've never had a job, but I feel like there are different levels of non-romantic friendship. But basically what I'm saying is that I'm not interested in romance or sex and I don't want people to misconstrue my actions as flirting when they're just me being my sarcastic, slightly ironically asinine, self.

Well, assuming that this particular cigar really is just a cigar, I guess all you can really do is try your best to not give off romance-y impressions. Good luck with that, you sexy beast, you. The only alternative I can see, is pretty much making it known publicly in some subtle way that you have no romantic or sexual desires. In my experience, it doesn't really matter where you are; grapevines work wonders for spreading information. Being open and truthful about it is pretty much all you've got. :smallfrown:

[Erloas]

So I've decided to try online dating again, but this time with Match because the others don't seem to have many people close, I think the free ones just aren't that well known around here.

So I want to get some feedback on the basic self description I have posted. I can't find a way to link to the profile directly so I'll just post the primary text part here. I think there are a few things I want to change and clean up (as I sort of wrote it in pieces then keep going back and making additions and minor changes) but I think its ok so far, if a bit long.

This is always the hardest part...

I'm very much an introvert. I really don't like crowds and I'm glad to be out of a big city (I spent 8 years living in Phoenix). I would have no problem never going to another bar in my life.

I like most children and most of them like me too. I also know and accept that anyone with kids that those kids will always come first, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

I try to be a positive and supportive person.

I'm looking for someone that will accept me for who I am and I will do likewise. I'm looking for someone that I can do things with, but also someone that I can do nothing with.
As for what else I'm looking for, what everyone says and really doesn't mean much in something like this. Not many people are going to say they aren't nice, they aren't going to say they are dumb, or that they are hard to get along with. Beyond "being a good person" I'm not sure if anything I think I want is really what I actually want or need from someone else.

I've been spending a lot of time working out this last year. I've just recently starting riding a road bike, hoping to get a lot more miles on it this year. I ran my second half marathon in SLC recently and managed a much better time then I ever expected. I also go to the gym a lot, taking classes mostly.
I want to go skiing more but only made a few trips this last year.

I also take part in the SCA, though its not very active here so I only get to a few events a year.

I want to go camping a lot more then I ended up getting to go this last year. Mostly just having a hard time finding anyone else with the free time and desire to go.

I'm sure there are a lot of other activities I would enjoy doing but I'm not doing simply because I don't know anyone else doing them. I'm up to trying a lot of things.
I've got a lot of other hobbies I just never end up doing them, such as fly fishing and woodworking.

In general I almost never watch movies or TV. Not that I have a problem with them, they just often seem like the least interesting options for spending my time.

And if the SCA wasn't clue enough, I've got a fairly strong geeky/nerdy streak as well. Some of it I've sort of been moving away from though. I know who Cthulhu is, and Trogdor, and Tim the Enchanter. I know a decent number of the recent memes but don't keep up on all of them. I've also taken part in a couple KickStarter projects. I also build my own computers and end up doing tech support for a number of people.
I'm also likely to try and make anything I can rather then buy it, mostly for the challenge and customization of it.
I also cook a decent amount, I'm not great at it but I can do a few things, usually too much work to make anything fancy just for myself.

I know I often come off as rather reserved and stoic, but I'm actually much more easy going and content then I think I come across to many other people.

And if nothing else, I'm looking for someone to just cycle or run with.

As for my pictures, I only have a couple recent ones. I'm not really a photogenic person so most of my pictures are of something else that I happen to be around.


So... any thoughts would be appreciated.

[dehro]

So I've decided to try online dating again, but this time with Match because the others don't seem to have many people close, I think the free ones just aren't that well known around here.

So I want to get some feedback on the basic self description I have posted. I can't find a way to link to the profile directly so I'll just post the primary text part here. I think there are a few things I want to change and clean up (as I sort of wrote it in pieces then keep going back and making additions and minor changes) but I think its ok so far, if a bit long.

Snip


So... any thoughts would be appreciated.

uhm..it seems to me you're doing it backwards.

you start on a low, get to the good stuff and then end it by saying "I'm not photogenic"..so..back to a low.
you should either start saying what's good about you, throw in the negative bits and then say something positive to do damage control on the negatives... or at least put a big "BUT" at the end of the negatives and crack a joke or counter them with something positive that actually balances the negatives out somehow.
something like "I've got cold feet in bed but I wear the most amazingly colourful socks" (yes, random idiotic example..but you get what I mean by it, I suppose)
and yes, it's rather longwinded.
specifically:

I'm very much an introvert. I really don't like crowds and I'm glad to be out of a big city (I spent 8 years living in Phoenix). I would have no problem never going to another bar in my life. this bit right at the opening... I can see half the people reading it thinking to themselves that that's going to make meeting you for the first time awkward or downright complicated... public and crowded places are the accepted neutral ground to protect against potential bunny boilers and axe murderers, not to mention the fact that it gives a rather "downcast" vibe about your personality.
There are just are so many ways you could say this in a lighter tone, or adding some humour to it..or just simply keeping it for somewhere not right at the top of a wall o'text. plenty of people will think "well..if that's his defining characteristic, I don't think I want to read the rest"..and move on.
of course if you're explicitly targeting people with the same disposition towards crowds and attitude towards..."sociality", then you might just speak right to their heart from the very first lines.. but it is my understanding that on dating sites you've got to play the numbers.. and this way you might be reducing your options quite a bit.

P.S. it's also rather serious..being a long read, it could do with some humour infused throughout.

[rogueboy]

So I've decided to try online dating again, but this time with Match because the others don't seem to have many people close, I think the free ones just aren't that well known around here.

So I want to get some feedback on the basic self description I have posted. I can't find a way to link to the profile directly so I'll just post the primary text part here. I think there are a few things I want to change and clean up (as I sort of wrote it in pieces then keep going back and making additions and minor changes) but I think its ok so far, if a bit long.

*snip*


So... any thoughts would be appreciated.

I'll agree with dehro - you want to open (and close, really) with positive things. It's following a pretty basic psychological guideline: people are going to remember the beginning and end of something more than the middle of it. So take advantage of that by putting your best selling point at the beginning (because if people get bored, they'll stop reading, so you don't want your best part to be at the end).

As to specifics...
-like dehro said, your comment about introversion and bars comes across as being really negative. Try rephrasing it to be something more like "I don't usually enjoy bars, although [something positive]".
-Your comments about kids and being supportive fail at the classic "show, don't tell" rule. They can be made more interesting.
-The exercise paragraph comes across... not quite the way you want it to, I think. The opening makes it seem like you're overly focused on changing your physical appearance (may well not be the case, but it's how it initially struck me, and first impressions are big). Focus more on the biking and half-marathon than the time at the gym, I'd say.
-May just be me, but what's SCA?
-Your camping and "other activities" lines come across as fairly negative... focus on what you like about camping, and the fact that you're open to new things.
-The paragraph about being "geeky/nerdy" is the only time your description actually feels like you - the rest of the description comes across as just listing facts. Expanding some of them, and focusing on the positives rather than negatives will likely help with that. Also, it may be worth considering how close you present different things (the SCA and being geeky being the two things that seem like they should be closer).

tl;dr - too much "here's a list of facts about me", not enough "here's why I'm awesome"

[Reluctance]

Every time I see "I build my own computer", I roll my eyes. There are two types of chicks out there; those who think it's bad-geeky (as opposed to the "I like Harry Potter, I'm such a nerd lol"), and those who understand that it's no harder than snapping together legos to make what's on the box. Show, as they say. Don't tell.

For a refresher, link your OKC. I'm too lazy to try and remember my match info. The questions specifically have to do with "are you paying?" and "how easily can you afford to?" You might get someone looking for a meal ticket if that's the case. Otherwise, it's the same old bucket of sameyness that makes profile reviewing feel so repetitive after a very short time.

[Erloas]

I guess quite a bit of that was sort of what I was noticing without really knowing what it was. I'm just not very good at writing this sort of stuff so I'm not really sure how to change it either.

As for the SCA... its one of those things that a lot of people don't get. I sort of figured it was worth mentioning but its not something that can quickly and easily be described in any way that would work. So I figure if they know what it is then they already know what it is and its all fine, and if they don't know what it is they'll have something to ask about and I'll have the chance to explain it in a way that doesn't come across as crazy.

As for the kids part, I wasn't sure what to do with that. I figure it is important to at least say something because I'm 31 and about 80% of my target audience seems to already have kids and someone that is good with them is always a top priority. Obviously its something I can show if we meet, but I don't think there is any way to show in the description.

As for my OKC profile, I haven't updated it in a while so I've still got an old description up there (which also didn't seem to work for me) and some different pictures so its not going to be a whole lot of help.

As for the introvert part... how is it that being an introvert is a negative? Its a decent portion of the population after all, I also think it says a lot about who I am. As for bars... I really do hate them and ever time I go to one I hate them even more, and frankly if going to a bar is important to the woman then its probably not going to work out anyway. As for crowds there is a big difference between going to places with other people and crowds, although I guess if it doesn't seem that way to most people then I should probably change it.

As for the geeky/nerdy part... I wasn't really sure how to put that. Obviously I'm here, so really I'm pretty geeky in a lot of ways... but generally it seems to be the sort of thing you have to slowly introduce to people. It was again the sort of thing where I thought if they knew what I was talking about its all fine and if they don't know what I'm talking about its something that can be worked into slowly later. Because if I went too much in that direction right in the profile I probably won't get very far because its not a common sub-culture around where I live.

[Pyromancer999]

Well, yeah. I'm usually civil when I tell people they're being dumb.

The point is to not tell people that they're dumb unless what they're doing will result in majorly bad consequences, though.

[Erloas]

Ok, so I rewrote everything to try and change the tone. I *think* most of it is better now, but I still forgot a few things and there were a couple things I thought I wanted to say but couldn't find a good way of saying them.
I updated it last night but couldn't post here because the server seemed to be down.
The whole what I'm like, as opposed to what I do, thing is hard. I'm not sure how to say any of that without it basically sounding like me saying "I'm great" without anything to back it up.
I've spent a lot of time getting in shape this last year and it has definitely given me a new appreciation for being outside and being active and for life in general. I'm currently regularly taking classes at the gym, as well as running and I'll be cycling more as the weather gets better. I also love to ski, though I never seem to make it onto the mountain as much as I would like (but is there ever enough?).
I'm sure there are a lot of other activities I would enjoy doing, I just haven't found them yet.
I would like to find someone else that likes being outdoors and active, doing something I already enjoy doing or introducing me to new things.
I also enjoy camping and hiking, I have a few places I really like but I know there is a lot of this state and the surrounding areas that I should see but haven't yet (blaming my parents for that, they got out of camping about the time I was old enough to really start learning the areas). I really want get out to more new places but I don't have anyone to go with.

I also fish quite a bit. I've mostly been fishing from a boat lately but I really need to learn jigging. I also flyfish some, but I've got a lot of learning left to do there too.

I also enjoy the SCA. I've meet people from all over the world doing SCA and I've made some very good friends because of it. Its not very well known around here though, and a bit hard to explain in this format, so if you want to know more just ask.

When I'm not exercising I'm usually at home or visiting with friends, occasionally playing games (of various sorts), reading, or doing hobbies and generally just relaxing. Generally staying rather low-key.

What I'm looking for is someone that I can just be myself with. Someone that is a friend, and that knows how to treat other people. Someone that can think for themselves and is strong and practical.

[Chen]

When I'm not exercising I'm usually at home or visiting with friends, occasionally playing games (of various sorts), reading, or doing hobbies and generally just relaxing. Generally staying rather low-key.

What I'm looking for is someone that I can just be myself with. Someone that is a friend, and that knows how to treat other people. Someone that can think for themselves and is strong and practical.

These last two paragraphs seem off to me. The first one seems to imply you're always exercising. I would remove the "When I'm not exercising part" and just say I enjoy hanging out with friends, reading etc. Saying you enjoy "hobbies" is pretty vague too.

The last paragraph to me just seems like the standard generic thing everyone has in their profile that doesn't really say much. You're looking for a good person. Everyone is. It just seems trite to me.

[Erloas]

These last two paragraphs seem off to me. The first one seems to imply you're always exercising. I would remove the "When I'm not exercising part" and just say I enjoy hanging out with friends, reading etc. Saying you enjoy "hobbies" is pretty vague too.

The last paragraph to me just seems like the standard generic thing everyone has in their profile that doesn't really say much. You're looking for a good person. Everyone is. It just seems trite to me.

Well I am actually kind of always exercising. I spend at least 3 weekdays a week at the gym for 2 hours, with a 4th day where I should be doing fighter practice for the SCA (but doesn't consistently happen, and sometimes I do something else). So on most weekdays I have enough time to update a few things on EVE, get a snack, take care of the pets and go to the gym with enough time when I get home to get a shower and play a couple rounds of WOT before bed. Weekends are less time exercising and generally a decent amount of time not doing much.

It has actually gotten to the point where exercise of some form really is what I do with the majority of my free time.

And yeah, hobbies is fairly vague, but mostly on purpose, because some are going to be of no interest (and probably a negative) to 99% of women, and others are sort of covered in the general interest part of the profile later.

As for the last generic part... yeah, I know it is. But it kind of seemed like it needed to be there because *everyone* puts something like that there, maybe its just a sacred cow with no real meaning, but I'm not sure if it would be better if it were removed or not. Of course the first version (see last page) I had the same info in more of a ... sarcastic? acknowledging the cliche-ness? tone; I'm not sure if that worked better?
Considering that about 80% of the profiles I've looked at, those generic statements are *all* they have on their profile. So if thats what a women sees as important for them to say about themselves/what they are looking for, wouldn't it be to my advantage to match that idea/expectation?


What I think should be added, but not really sure how: That I like kids and get along well with most of them (key point to most women my age as they all seem to have kids). That I'm smart; which can mean a lot of things really, but practical, level headed, think through a lot of problems, solve problems for fun, like to try and fix things, and like making things as opposed to buying when its practical. That I'm thoughtful and considerate and enjoy helping other people (on a personal level, I'm not much for volunteering).
And the other part would be... that I am a geek or nerd (definition isn't clear, probably both) but I'm not sure how to hint at that without negatively affecting my chances, as the cross between athletic/outdoors types and geeks is pretty small (especially around here).

[Chen]

Well I am actually kind of always exercising. I spend at least 3 weekdays a week at the gym for 2 hours, with a 4th day where I should be doing fighter practice for the SCA (but doesn't consistently happen, and sometimes I do something else). So on most weekdays I have enough time to update a few things on EVE, get a snack, take care of the pets and go to the gym with enough time when I get home to get a shower and play a couple rounds of WOT before bed. Weekends are less time exercising and generally a decent amount of time not doing much.

It has actually gotten to the point where exercise of some form really is what I do with the majority of my free time.

Might be something to mention more accurately then. It kind of came out of the blue when reading that paragraph.


What I think should be added, but not really sure how: That I like kids and get along well with most of them (key point to most women my age as they all seem to have kids). That I'm smart; which can mean a lot of things really, but practical, level headed, think through a lot of problems, solve problems for fun, like to try and fix things, and like making things as opposed to buying when its practical. That I'm thoughtful and considerate and enjoy helping other people (on a personal level, I'm not much for volunteering).
And the other part would be... that I am a geek or nerd (definition isn't clear, probably both) but I'm not sure how to hint at that without negatively affecting my chances, as the cross between athletic/outdoors types and geeks is pretty small (especially around here).

Thing is all the stuff that says you're thoughtful, considerate and such just seem like bull**** on a dating site. No one is going to come out and say they're NOT considerate or thoughtful so I'm not sure how much that adds to things.

Hiding the geek/nerd thing (as you mentioned with your hobbies) is probably NOT a good thing. Yes you may drive people away from your profile, but those are not the people you want to be with anyway. Imagine you like playing Dungeons and Dragons. You don't want to say this so you don't come off as a nerd. At some point, unless you're completely willing to give up the hobby, its going to come out. This is something that I imagine both sides would want to be up front about. What if that's a dealbreaker for some people? Instead of finding it out to begin with you leave it until later where its much more painful/difficult to break things up.

If the overall point is to find someone who shares your interests (rather than just say random flings) its usually a good idea to be up front about them. Lying about things you feel will be negative (or at least omitting them) will come and bite you later. Its essentially a bait and switch and you can imagine people getting upset about things like that.

[MountainKing]

As a sort of soft counter to what Chen has said, if you wind up with a person who's going to flip their lid over a few geeky hobbies, it's going to be fairly obvious fairly early. It's a simple task to mention nerdery with a sidelong comment, and gauge the person's reaction from there.

While we're at it, the only kind of person that I personally can think of that would react vehemently to things like D&D playing, when they didn't know about beforehand, are really, REALLY "preppy" (need a better word here, let's crowd-source it) people, or like... super hard-lining, rabid fundamentalists. The kind that post videos about the evils of Minecraft. :smallconfused:

[Chen]

As a sort of soft counter to what Chen has said, if you wind up with a person who's going to flip their lid over a few geeky hobbies, it's going to be fairly obvious fairly early. It's a simple task to mention nerdery with a sidelong comment, and gauge the person's reaction from there.

While we're at it, the only kind of person that I personally can think of that would react vehemently to things like D&D playing, when they didn't know about beforehand, are really, REALLY "preppy" (need a better word here, let's crowd-source it) people, or like... super hard-lining, rabid fundamentalists. The kind that post videos about the evils of Minecraft. :smallconfused:

It doesn't need to be vehemently. I play a lot of video games. On the weekends, after work. It takes up a good amount of time. If that was something that I hid from a profile I could see it easily being an issue with some relationships. There's making yourself look attractive on a dating site versus hiding things that are a normal part of what you do. Look if you're just looking for casual sex/flings then fine hide all you want. If you're looking for a longer term relationship and the like it doesn't make sense to hide these things. Clearly you need to be careful in how you word things so that people don't mis-interpret what you say as being worse than it is, but its better than just bringing it up later.

[Reluctance]

The SCA. If you're a ren faire dweeb, you're in for a treat. Your wording would probably be a little different, but calling it "hard to explain" falls into a similar camp as "I make my own computers". Anyone who knows, knows. Anyone who's curious can ask. Your goal is to open channels for conversation, not tie them off.

The thing with being a geek, that's a presentation issue. It's not something to hide, but at the same time, be mindful your word count; if your profile is all internet memes and video game references, it's not an unreasonable assumption that you receive no sunlight and spend far too much time basking in your monitor's glow. Mention geeky hobbies, don't go on too long unless they really are that central to your identity, let people draw their own conclusions. Think the difference between a woman who mentions her kid(s) in interesting, contextually appropriate ways vs. one who goes on endlessly about how they're her light and her life. (Hint: One should cause you to leave a cartoonlike cloud where you used to be, and possibly your silhouette smashed out through several nearby walls.)

Don't think that just because everybody else puts something that it's mandatory. Being savvy enough to understand and undermine the cliche earns you many more points than buying into it. Take it from anyone with any real success; standing out is a good thing. If you roll your eyes seeing the same stupid thing time after time, other people will feel the same way. Being non-stereotypical and not-boring will earn you brownie points.

[Erloas]

Well I think its more of an issue of getting someone warmed up to the idea of something they don't know about. Its going to take a bit of time and the better they know you the easier it is. There is also the simple fact that not everything you do has to be done with the other person, your bound to have a few different tastes in some things.
The fact that they even have terms like "Hunter's Widow" shows that not all activities are equally shared. Which I think is kind of the equivalent here, though probably a poor analogy for this audience.

And the more I think about it, the more I think I don't need to add anything more. I've got a few of the things directly or indirectly mentioned, and any more its not a huge part of my life anyway, so I'm probably good there.

I guess the last thing is to figure out if I'm going to change anything for the who I am (as opposed to what I do) thing, which I'm not sure if there is anything I can really say there. And should I put anything for who I'm looking for? Seeing as I'm probably going to be making first contact almost all the time, the fact that I'm messaging them at all would imply that they at least somewhat fit what I'm looking for.

So other then the last two bits, overall it seemed pretty good?

[MountainKing]

I'm not saying anyone should hide anything, but I do think it's important to pick and choose when you present some things. I mean, you could easily have people who make snap judgements about you based on your hobbies, without even bothering to get to know you. All things being revealed in good time, that's the way I suggest myself. I mean, everyone judges the people around them; it's a subconscious, automatic thing that humans do. Our brains assess the information given to us and puts it into boxes automatically; that's why we have to make a point of NOT making judgements quickly.

With the videogames on the weekend example, sure, you do it now, but what if you were to come into a relationship of some sort? Would you still be making the choice to dedicate your spare time to videogames, leaving the relationship cold? Or would you change your schedule a bit, maybe work the video games in some other time? I mean, adding people to the equation makes a schedule/plan all manner of unruly. I'd think it'd be kinda hard to say if those weekend gaming sessions would stay where they are. I mean, unless you're really dedicated to that particular thing. Then, I guess it makes sense, but... I dunno. I guess that's just not me, so it's harder for me to see it.

[ForzaFiori]

How long should you wait between getting a chicks number and calling/texting? Not including a text so she'll know who you are/have your number as well. I met an awesome girl today and don't wanna screw things up by seeming too desperate, or uninterested...

[Pheehelm]

From what I gather, non-crazy girls don't sit by their phone with a stopwatch ready to say "wow, only sixteen hours and nine minutes. I could never date this guy, he's so obviously desperate/uninterested."

More on this subject here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8559394#post8559394). For my part, I'm not sure what good any answer other than "when you're ready to call/text her" would accomplish.

[noparlpf]

You know how people think it's kind of creepy if you answer texts immediately? What if you just keep your phone on hand and answer texts immediately so as not to forget between when the text comes in and whenever later happens to be? 'Cause that's me.

[MountainKing]

How long should you wait between getting a chicks number and calling/texting? Not including a text so she'll know who you are/have your number as well. I met an awesome girl today and don't wanna screw things up by seeming too desperate, or uninterested...

Eh, depends. Did she seem like the kind of girl who'd be happy to hear from you? Was she distant? Normally, I'd say a day or so; as a general rule, not on the same day. However, at the end of the day, it comes down to the person. Go, go first impression!


You know how people think it's kind of creepy if you answer texts immediately? What if you just keep your phone on hand and answer texts immediately so as not to forget between when the text comes in and whenever later happens to be? 'Cause that's me.

Crap. I'm creepy too, then. I basically don't have anyone that I talk to, though, so... I mean, answering a text immediately is basically the easiest thing ever.

[Glass Mouse]

You know how people think it's kind of creepy if you answer texts immediately? What if you just keep your phone on hand and answer texts immediately so as not to forget between when the text comes in and whenever later happens to be? 'Cause that's me.

Wait, that's creepy? I don't know anyone who thinks that's creepy. Generally, everyone I know appreciate a quick reply.

[noparlpf]

It really is pretty easy. That's why texting exists--it's easier than calling and talking.
And I don't text anymore, but I did back in high school when there was cell service and a social life.

Edit:

Wait, that's creepy? I don't know anyone who thinks that's creepy. Generally, everyone I know appreciate a quick reply.

I dunno about creepy exactly. I'm not good at converting thoughts to words. Private language theory and whatnot.

[RabbitHoleLost]

I think my friendship with my best friend is emotionally abusive?
But I'm not sure.
Spoiled for a long, chaotic rant.
My best friend has a lot of issues.

Its hard to explain, but, there it is.

She periodically gets mad at me- I could set a calendar by it, every few months. She cancels plans after plans, but if I decline two invitations in a row (sorry, I have a wedding that day. Sorry, I have a concert I bought tickets for eight months ago), I am suddenly the worst piece of poop in the world and I’m a bad friend and I don’t ever try to maintain our friendship.

This is the woman I took to the hospital twice a week because she’s always in pain and always demands to go, even though she knows the emergency room doctor’s can’t give her anything, since she’s on regularly scheduled pain meds.
This is the friend I’ve cancelled dates for, because she needed me to go somewhere with her.
This is the friend I sold my plasma for, so we could go see the Smurfs movie. The friend I took out to get our nails done when she was really upset, and took out to get her makeup done for NO reason other than to go out clubbing.
The friend I pay to get into places with, but then have to leave a half hour in because she suddenly just doesn’t want to be there anymore.
The friend I woke up for even though I have to get up really early because she texted me.

I have broken up with two boyfriends because she didn’t like them.
I have waited around countless days for her to call me, only for her to say she just didn’t feel like seeing me that day.

She is ridiculously high maintenance and I wish, for just one moment, she would stop and realize how much friend-love I have for her and stop questioning it and thinking I hate her or whatever this stupid thing she does every few months is. Because I’m SORRY I can’t make it to her Roller Derby practice because of a bachelorette party for my coworker that was planned two months ago, and I’m sorry I didn’t invite you to come along to a Women’s right march specifically, even though you were invited on facebook, and I’m sorry I’m going to see The Wall with my bro-friend next saturday because we bought tickets back in August and I’m sorry the Saturday after is Cyndi’s wedding and my sister’s graduation party, AND I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET TO SEE MY BOYFRIEND THROUGH ANY OF THIS.

And I have to tip toe through all of her feelings, so I can’t say a single word of how frustrated I am with her about this, or else she gets suicidal and so I just have to suck it up and say “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’ll do better” over and over and over again, and I just get sucked back into the habit of waiting around for her all day and feeling guilty if I plan anything with anyone else.

[Grinner]

I think my friendship with my best friend is emotionally abusive?
But I'm not sure.
Spoiled for a long, chaotic rant.
My best friend has a lot of issues.

Its hard to explain, but, there it is.

She periodically gets mad at me- I could set a calendar by it, every few months. She cancels plans after plans, but if I decline two invitations in a row (sorry, I have a wedding that day. Sorry, I have a concert I bought tickets for eight months ago), I am suddenly the worst piece of poop in the world and I’m a bad friend and I don’t ever try to maintain our friendship.

This is the woman I took to the hospital twice a week because she’s always in pain and always demands to go, even though she knows the emergency room doctor’s can’t give her anything, since she’s on regularly scheduled pain meds.
This is the friend I’ve cancelled dates for, because she needed me to go somewhere with her.
This is the friend I sold my plasma for, so we could go see the Smurfs movie. The friend I took out to get our nails done when she was really upset, and took out to get her makeup done for NO reason other than to go out clubbing.
The friend I pay to get into places with, but then have to leave a half hour in because she suddenly just doesn’t want to be there anymore.
The friend I woke up for even though I have to get up really early because she texted me.

I have broken up with two boyfriends because she didn’t like them.
I have waited around countless days for her to call me, only for her to say she just didn’t feel like seeing me that day.

She is ridiculously high maintenance and I wish, for just one moment, she would stop and realize how much friend-love I have for her and stop questioning it and thinking I hate her or whatever this stupid thing she does every few months is. Because I’m SORRY I can’t make it to her Roller Derby practice because of a bachelorette party for my coworker that was planned two months ago, and I’m sorry I didn’t invite you to come along to a Women’s right march specifically, even though you were invited on facebook, and I’m sorry I’m going to see The Wall with my bro-friend next saturday because we bought tickets back in August and I’m sorry the Saturday after is Cyndi’s wedding and my sister’s graduation party, AND I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET TO SEE MY BOYFRIEND THROUGH ANY OF THIS.

And I have to tip toe through all of her feelings, so I can’t say a single word of how frustrated I am with her about this, or else she gets suicidal and so I just have to suck it up and say “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’ll do better” over and over and over again, and I just get sucked back into the habit of waiting around for her all day and feeling guilty if I plan anything with anyone else.

Yeah, that sounds exactly like it. :smallfrown:

[Reluctance]

Your friend sounds emotionally unwell.

Still, you have both the right and the responsibility to give her an ultimatum. If she truly values you and your friendship, she'll go and get professional help. If she doesn't think you're worth doing that much for, that should tell you everything you need to know.

[dehro]

How long should you wait between getting a chicks number and calling/texting? Not including a text so she'll know who you are/have your number as well. I met an awesome girl today and don't wanna screw things up by seeming too desperate, or uninterested...

how about "wait until you have something interesting (to her) to say?" calling just to hear her voice is romantic but not cool on a first approach. calling because you've found/bumped into something funny or something you know might interests her and want to share it with her thereby neatly giving you a reason to call her and her a reason to want to hear it (not to mention potentially being grateful) is entirely positive and doesn't have any specific timetable to take into account. timing is irrelevant as long as the call/text is a good one.
examples. I once texted a girl right after having left her presence because something funny had happened right after it. she had a laugh and all was well. another time I texted a girl the morning after we met thanking her for the time together. and yet another time I did so whilst I was driving home. what's the difference? different vibe, different girls, different situations.
there just isn't a single answer... as long as what you text or say is appropriate for the stage of your relationship with her.
I would advise against sending her a picture of your genitals. I once met this guy who was totally baffled by the fact that the girl he liked wouldn't appreciate him doing that. the only reason I didn't smack him in the head is because he was drunk and I wasn't sure that he was being serious.

[Frozen_Feet]

How long should you wait between getting a chicks number and calling/texting?

My own advice would be "when you have something to say". I only text if I have some interesting new thing to share with them. I only call if I'm about to ask them for a date, which also means I already have a good picture where I want to take them and when.

[fergo]

I think my friendship with my best friend is emotionally abusive?
But I'm not sure.
Spoiled for a long, chaotic rant.
My best friend has a lot of issues.

Its hard to explain, but, there it is.

She periodically gets mad at me- I could set a calendar by it, every few months. She cancels plans after plans, but if I decline two invitations in a row (sorry, I have a wedding that day. Sorry, I have a concert I bought tickets for eight months ago), I am suddenly the worst piece of poop in the world and I’m a bad friend and I don’t ever try to maintain our friendship.

This is the woman I took to the hospital twice a week because she’s always in pain and always demands to go, even though she knows the emergency room doctor’s can’t give her anything, since she’s on regularly scheduled pain meds.
This is the friend I’ve cancelled dates for, because she needed me to go somewhere with her.
This is the friend I sold my plasma for, so we could go see the Smurfs movie. The friend I took out to get our nails done when she was really upset, and took out to get her makeup done for NO reason other than to go out clubbing.
The friend I pay to get into places with, but then have to leave a half hour in because she suddenly just doesn’t want to be there anymore.
The friend I woke up for even though I have to get up really early because she texted me.

I have broken up with two boyfriends because she didn’t like them.
I have waited around countless days for her to call me, only for her to say she just didn’t feel like seeing me that day.

She is ridiculously high maintenance and I wish, for just one moment, she would stop and realize how much friend-love I have for her and stop questioning it and thinking I hate her or whatever this stupid thing she does every few months is. Because I’m SORRY I can’t make it to her Roller Derby practice because of a bachelorette party for my coworker that was planned two months ago, and I’m sorry I didn’t invite you to come along to a Women’s right march specifically, even though you were invited on facebook, and I’m sorry I’m going to see The Wall with my bro-friend next saturday because we bought tickets back in August and I’m sorry the Saturday after is Cyndi’s wedding and my sister’s graduation party, AND I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET TO SEE MY BOYFRIEND THROUGH ANY OF THIS.

And I have to tip toe through all of her feelings, so I can’t say a single word of how frustrated I am with her about this, or else she gets suicidal and so I just have to suck it up and say “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’ll do better” over and over and over again, and I just get sucked back into the habit of waiting around for her all day and feeling guilty if I plan anything with anyone else.

I agree with Reluctance. She seems to be taking you for granted, and it seems to me all you can do is tell her so :smallfrown:.

But the only solution, it seems, is to try and get her to understand that she may need professional help, especially if she gets all suicidal every time you try and stand up to her.

[dehro]

I think my friendship with my best friend is emotionally abusive?
But I'm not sure.
Spoiled for a long, chaotic rant.
snip

I'm having a hard time not to get mad at you. the only reason I don't, is that I've been there, to a degree.

the fact is you're both leeching off one another.
you're emotionally dependent on a high maintenance self centered twit.
you're as much to blame as she is...because you let her do what she does and treat you like your life revolves around her...which it pretty much does, by the way you write.
find a hobby that doesn't involve her, don't leave your boyfriends because of her, stop checking your phone for her calls. you're not in love with her (right?), she shouldn't have the hold she has on your life. especially so if she's as inconstant and selfabsorbed as you describe her. when she pulls a drama queen act, call her out on it and tell her to get over herself. she doesn't need you holding her hand every time she finds anything objectionable in her life.
helping out a friend is all well and cool, but if my best friend calls me at 2 am on a week-night it better be because he's in a car accident or he's suffered a loss in the family, or I'll tear his head off the next time I see him.
he knows that and so should your friend.
estabilish some boundaries. find stuff to do without her and if she gets mad about it tell her precisely why she has no right to be mad. and if she doesn't apologize..in words and actions..
well..then she's really not the friend to you that you think she is. maybe you're better off without her.

[absolmorph]

I asked a girl out tonight.
She's intelligent, interesting, fun, and a whole slew of things I find attractive. I had a crush on her soon after we met, but that got... suspended? I don't know how to describe it. The romantic feelings just sorta got set aside until something reminded me.
I talked to her for much longer than I'm normally interested in talking to people and still found myself wanting to talk more (despite knowing my voice was starting to give out).

She's moving to Switzerland in a few weeks. I knew this before asking her out.
:smallsigh:
I cannot help but strive for new levels of masochism...

EDIT: She said yes, in case anyone was wondering.

[Glass Mouse]

I think my friendship with my best friend is emotionally abusive?
But I'm not sure.
Spoiled for a long, chaotic rant.
My best friend has a lot of issues.

Its hard to explain, but, there it is.

She periodically gets mad at me- I could set a calendar by it, every few months. She cancels plans after plans, but if I decline two invitations in a row (sorry, I have a wedding that day. Sorry, I have a concert I bought tickets for eight months ago), I am suddenly the worst piece of poop in the world and I’m a bad friend and I don’t ever try to maintain our friendship.

This is the woman I took to the hospital twice a week because she’s always in pain and always demands to go, even though she knows the emergency room doctor’s can’t give her anything, since she’s on regularly scheduled pain meds.
This is the friend I’ve cancelled dates for, because she needed me to go somewhere with her.
This is the friend I sold my plasma for, so we could go see the Smurfs movie. The friend I took out to get our nails done when she was really upset, and took out to get her makeup done for NO reason other than to go out clubbing.
The friend I pay to get into places with, but then have to leave a half hour in because she suddenly just doesn’t want to be there anymore.
The friend I woke up for even though I have to get up really early because she texted me.

I have broken up with two boyfriends because she didn’t like them.
I have waited around countless days for her to call me, only for her to say she just didn’t feel like seeing me that day.

She is ridiculously high maintenance and I wish, for just one moment, she would stop and realize how much friend-love I have for her and stop questioning it and thinking I hate her or whatever this stupid thing she does every few months is. Because I’m SORRY I can’t make it to her Roller Derby practice because of a bachelorette party for my coworker that was planned two months ago, and I’m sorry I didn’t invite you to come along to a Women’s right march specifically, even though you were invited on facebook, and I’m sorry I’m going to see The Wall with my bro-friend next saturday because we bought tickets back in August and I’m sorry the Saturday after is Cyndi’s wedding and my sister’s graduation party, AND I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET TO SEE MY BOYFRIEND THROUGH ANY OF THIS.

And I have to tip toe through all of her feelings, so I can’t say a single word of how frustrated I am with her about this, or else she gets suicidal and so I just have to suck it up and say “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’ll do better” over and over and over again, and I just get sucked back into the habit of waiting around for her all day and feeling guilty if I plan anything with anyone else.

Sounds like textbook emotional abuse. So very many red flags - not respecting your boundaries, playing blame games, hypocrisy, threat of suicide, searching for "proof"... all seriously unhealthy behaviours.

Try to check out this (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/200812/are-you-dating-abuser) and this (http://www.dangersofinternetdating.com/articles/abusealertpage1.htm) list of red flags. Both are for romantic relationships, but that only disqualifies a few of the behaviours.

As dehro points out, however, an abuser never stands alone. They need an enabler, and right now, that's you. I know it's hard, and I can't blame you for getting caught, but keep in mind that she's only doing this to you because you let her.
You can be rightfully mad at her, but please go into serious self-reflection mode and figure out why you let her abuse you like this. What does she fulfill in you? Why do you need that? Dehro mentions emotional dependence which may be part of an answer. Maybe you try to play white knight. Maybe you feel like you don't deserve better. You need to figure this out... if nothing else so you can avoid getting trapped in a similar relationship in the future.

One thing you may want to keep in mind: She is HER OWN responsibility! There is a very significant difference between helping someone and taking responsibility for their happiness. She needs to take the initiative and responsibility; you shouldn't be primus motor in keeping her well or, worse, alive.
I don't know how much of a factor this is, but her problems sound like a big factor, considering you started your tale by mentioning it. They are not an excuse, they are not your responsibility.


Also... She won't realize your friend-love without serious therapeutic help. In all probability, she doesn't truly understand the concept of friend-love, or it's not nearly enough. Something is wrong with her self-perception and her relationship to the world, and that excludes an understanding of real friends.
Maybe putting your foot down will be a wake-up call. But if it isn't, or she refuses to see a therapist, you need to withdraw.


I would advise against sending her a picture of your genitals. I once met this guy who was totally baffled by the fact that the girl he liked wouldn't appreciate him doing that. the only reason I didn't smack him in the head is because he was drunk and I wasn't sure that he was being serious.

I just... what.

Thanks for starting my day with a laugh, dehro!


I asked a girl out tonight.
She's intelligent, interesting, fun, and a whole slew of things I find attractive. I had a crush on her soon after we met, but that got... suspended? I don't know how to describe it. The romantic feelings just sorta got set aside until something reminded me.
I talked to her for much longer than I'm normally interested in talking to people and still found myself wanting to talk more (despite knowing my voice was starting to give out).

She's moving to Switzerland in a few weeks. I knew this before asking her out.
:smallsigh:
I cannot help but strive for new levels of masochism...

EDIT: She said yes, in case anyone was wondering.

Well... Sounds like you can have a good thing for a few weeks, at least. Hope it'll be enjoyable for as long as it lasts :smallsmile:

[dehro]

Thanks for starting my day with a laugh, dehro!


true story!

[rogueboy]

I'm not going to say much about the whole emotional abuse thing aside from agreeing with them, because others have said it better than I could.


helping out a friend is all well and cool, but if my best friend calls me at 2 am on a week-night it better be because he's in a car accident or he's suffered a loss in the family, or I'll tear his head off the next time I see him.
he knows that and so should your friend.

To be fair, I'd argue that (major) positive things are acceptable at weird hours, too. Example: A really good friend of mine called me at 1-2 am (shortly after I moved 3 times zones ahead, so that contributed to it) to tell me that she had just gotten engaged. I may have been asleep and needing to get up at 6 the next morning, but I'm still glad she called me to tell me that. Could it have waiting? Yeah, but it was a big enough thing that I can't blame her for wanting to share it sooner, and I was never upset with her for waking me, given why she did so.

[dehro]

I'm not going to say much about the whole emotional abuse thing aside from agreeing with them, because others have said it better than I could.



To be fair, I'd argue that (major) positive things are acceptable at weird hours, too. Example: A really good friend of mine called me at 1-2 am (shortly after I moved 3 times zones ahead, so that contributed to it) to tell me that she had just gotten engaged. I may have been asleep and needing to get up at 6 the next morning, but I'm still glad she called me to tell me that. Could it have waiting? Yeah, but it was a big enough thing that I can't blame her for wanting to share it sooner, and I was never upset with her for waking me, given why she did so.

of course..big things in general are good..that said, they need to be big things, not things blown out of proportion that can absolutely wait, which I assume is the case here.

[Sturmcrow]

I think my friendship with my best friend is emotionally abusive?
But I'm not sure.
Spoiled for a long, chaotic rant.
My best friend has a lot of issues.

Its hard to explain, but, there it is.

She periodically gets mad at me- I could set a calendar by it, every few months. She cancels plans after plans, but if I decline two invitations in a row (sorry, I have a wedding that day. Sorry, I have a concert I bought tickets for eight months ago), I am suddenly the worst piece of poop in the world and I’m a bad friend and I don’t ever try to maintain our friendship.

This is the woman I took to the hospital twice a week because she’s always in pain and always demands to go, even though she knows the emergency room doctor’s can’t give her anything, since she’s on regularly scheduled pain meds.
This is the friend I’ve cancelled dates for, because she needed me to go somewhere with her.
This is the friend I sold my plasma for, so we could go see the Smurfs movie. The friend I took out to get our nails done when she was really upset, and took out to get her makeup done for NO reason other than to go out clubbing.
The friend I pay to get into places with, but then have to leave a half hour in because she suddenly just doesn’t want to be there anymore.
The friend I woke up for even though I have to get up really early because she texted me.

I have broken up with two boyfriends because she didn’t like them.
I have waited around countless days for her to call me, only for her to say she just didn’t feel like seeing me that day.

She is ridiculously high maintenance and I wish, for just one moment, she would stop and realize how much friend-love I have for her and stop questioning it and thinking I hate her or whatever this stupid thing she does every few months is. Because I’m SORRY I can’t make it to her Roller Derby practice because of a bachelorette party for my coworker that was planned two months ago, and I’m sorry I didn’t invite you to come along to a Women’s right march specifically, even though you were invited on facebook, and I’m sorry I’m going to see The Wall with my bro-friend next saturday because we bought tickets back in August and I’m sorry the Saturday after is Cyndi’s wedding and my sister’s graduation party, AND I’M NOT EVEN GOING TO GET TO SEE MY BOYFRIEND THROUGH ANY OF THIS.

And I have to tip toe through all of her feelings, so I can’t say a single word of how frustrated I am with her about this, or else she gets suicidal and so I just have to suck it up and say “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’ll do better” over and over and over again, and I just get sucked back into the habit of waiting around for her all day and feeling guilty if I plan anything with anyone else.

Some semi private stuff behind the cut

It sounds like it is.

First, my advice is to sit her down and explain how you feel. Don't put it in terms of you did, you said, but I feel this.

Secondly, as someone who has to take percocet, lyrica and tramadol hcl because of chronic pain I can tell you, being in chronic pain makes it really hard to control your temper. It makes small frustrations seem like mountains. I am not excusing the behavior but I am not there to watch your relationship with this person 24/7 so I do not know the true dynamic. What I can see is you are upset with this treatment and something needs to change. Your friend sounds like she needs counseling for her pain management issues.

[Erloas]

Well first I'm just going to complain for a second... as mentioned above so many people write generic profiles about how they act and what they are looking for and of course it sounds like they are a good person... but it sure makes it hard to actually message them because there is almost nothing there to actually directly address.


As for RHL... maybe its just me... but how can you have a good friend you feel like you can't be honest with? If you can't be honest with them, and they can't accept some honesty from you, then how much of a true friend are they?
Maybe I'm just weird (well I know I am, not sure about this specific case though) but any friend that I talk about anything serious with I try to make it very clear that if they have any problem with what I'm doing or saying to please let me know. I know sometimes its hard to hear that you're being a pain in the rear to someone else, but I personally think its much better to know you are being a pain, that you need to adjust what you are doing, but the other person is still your friend and still there for you even if you are.
To me that is sort of the line between being a casual friend and a good friend.
And sometimes it really is a case of someone being enabled. My cousin lived with me for a while and he was always whining and complaining and acting like he had everything so bad and he acted like he shouldn't be responsible for his own well being and we (my other brother was living with me at the time too) basically said, suck it up, deal with it, and don't expect other people to take care of you, and he eventually figured it out. Thats not something he ever got from his parents, and didn't see yet in life. So it was sort of a kick in the rear for him to take care of it himself.

Sometimes it takes feeling hurt by a friend and finding that they are still your friend afterwards for it to really settle in that they are your friend for good or bad. And sometimes the right answer really is suck it up and get on with life even if thats not what they want to hear.

[Frozen_Feet]

Went to see Avengers today. Will always remember it as a movie I had to ask five girls to go with me for. :smalltongue: After Misses B, C and D had declined and A had to cancel just an hour before the movie started, I fortunately managed to drag new girl E with me. Don't know much about E yet, I contacted her through a Finnish dating site last thursday, but she seems interesting enough. I hope I'll at least get a new friend.

[MethosH]

Last time I logged in the playground (something like... 1.. or 2... years ago..) my love life was a mess. With over 6 people involved. I'm here to tell you that I'm engaged :smallbiggrin:

[Reluctance]

Allow me to be the first to wish that this is only the first of many happy marriages for you. :smalltongue:

[Castaras]

Last time I logged in the playground (something like... 1.. or 2... years ago..) my love life was a mess. With over 6 people involved. I'm here to tell you that I'm engaged :smallbiggrin:

That's awesome! :smallbiggrin: Congratulations.

[Glass Mouse]

Last time I logged in the playground (something like... 1.. or 2... years ago..) my love life was a mess. With over 6 people involved. I'm here to tell you that I'm engaged :smallbiggrin:

Haha, that's great! Many congrats :smallbiggrin:

[MountainKing]

Last time I logged in the playground (something like... 1.. or 2... years ago..) my love life was a mess. With over 6 people involved. I'm here to tell you that I'm engaged :smallbiggrin:

Six? Heh. My ol' mancrush Mal would be proud. :smallwink: Congratulations on the engagement!

IRT Rabbit - Hi. You and I have never really spoken much. Or... at all. So, I don't really expect you to take what I have to say with much seriousness. However, I recently remarked to a friend of mine with a similar situation on her hands that, "There's a fine line between love and Stockholm Syndrome." I honestly don't remember where I picked it up from; it might even be me, but I don't dare take the credit for it. I don't think that you've got something as severe as actual Stockholm Syndrome on your hands, but... if it was me, I'd be asking myself some fairly fundamental questions about the basis of the friendship at hand. I do not believe it should be your plan A, but, you may want to consider the implications of severing ties with your friend. It's obviously causing you a lot of frustration, if not outright emotional pain... at some point, there needs to be a line in the sand, because from the sound of things as presented, her behavior is nuclear grade unacceptable. :smallfrown:

So... *hugs* Best of luck.

[dehro]

Last time I logged in the playground (something like... 1.. or 2... years ago..) my love life was a mess. With over 6 people involved. I'm here to tell you that I'm engaged :smallbiggrin:

I'm pretty sure that when it involves 6 people it's called an orgy..that said, kudos and much happiness to you.

[Serpentine]

MethosH! Yay ^_^

[Starwulf]

Some semi private stuff behind the cut

It sounds like it is.

First, my advice is to sit her down and explain how you feel. Don't put it in terms of you did, you said, but I feel this.

Secondly, as someone who has to take percocet, lyrica and tramadol hcl because of chronic pain I can tell you, being in chronic pain makes it really hard to control your temper. It makes small frustrations seem like mountains. I am not excusing the behavior but I am not there to watch your relationship with this person 24/7 so I do not know the true dynamic. What I can see is you are upset with this treatment and something needs to change. Your friend sounds like she needs counseling for her pain management issues.


I don't know, I wouldn't ascribe it to the chronic pain. As I've mentioned before on the forums, I have a broken back, and I take all 3 of those very same meds you listed, and 4 others(Trazadone and Amirex for sleep, Skelaxin, and one other whose name my mind is blanking on, PLUS a portable TENS unit and a back-brace, also Pensaid? which is a rub on liquid, plus celebrex for the arthritis that has developed in my back) and my temperament is just fine. I'd personally say that their friend has some serious issues that might be best addressed by a psychologist, and that perhaps RabbitHoleLost should suggest a small break from each other while her friend gets her emotions in order, because it honestly sounds like a serious form of depression, or, more likely, Bi-polarism, since it sounds as though her friend often has good Upsides, but then also some awful downswings as well.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

So, my not-actually-a-date with this girl was kinda awkward and silent, and we didn't really talk that much. ... I get way to caught up in the art when I'm at the Art Gallery of Ontario, maybe it weren't such a good idea. Anyways, she got a call from her dad and had to leave because of something somehting family something, so that was kinda meh.

BUT, later I was describing my favourite movies, and said "I'm pretty sure I have the only DVD of this movie in the entire city, so if you ever see it chances are I'm showing it to you.", and she said "I would love ta watch it", so that's a little more affirmative?

I dunno, she's really pretty, and interesting, but there ain't any sparks happ'ning, y'ken? We'll see.

[MountainKing]

So, my not-actually-a-date with this girl was kinda awkward and silent, and we didn't really talk that much. ... I get way to caught up in the art when I'm at the Art Gallery of Ontario, maybe it weren't such a good idea. Anyways, she got a call from her dad and had to leave because of something somehting family something, so that was kinda meh.

BUT, later I was describing my favourite movies, and said "I'm pretty sure I have the only DVD of this movie in the entire city, so if you ever see it chances are I'm showing it to you.", and she said "I would love ta watch it", so that's a little more affirmative?

I dunno, she's really pretty, and interesting, but there ain't any sparks happ'ning, y'ken? We'll see.

Pshaw. You took a lady to a fine place, and even though something something family something happened, you still got a positive sounding thing? I'd say you were in good form, mate. Chin up, chest out. Make that movie night happen. :smallsmile:

EDIT: I mean, after all, you admitted that you maybe weren't totally into the lady as you were perhaps into the art. Y'ever try to strike a fire with flint and steel when you're not paying attention to it? Hell of difficult, if you ask me. You'll get it!

[Grinner]

@Gwyn: You might setting your expectations of yourself a little high. I find that unless each person shares a driving interest, conversation in any situation tends to be awkward and sparse. Maybe that's just me.

On the other hand, an art gallery? You get points just for having that much class. :smallsmile:

[Cobra_Ikari]

Last time I logged in the playground (something like... 1.. or 2... years ago..) my love life was a mess. With over 6 people involved. I'm here to tell you that I'm engaged :smallbiggrin:

...this sounds like my grandfather.

...except he invited all his girlfriends to his wedding. And conveniently left out that he was the one getting married.

...I wouldn't recommend doing that were I you. >.>

[Sholos]

So I had a second hang-out-y type thing with a girl tonight. 4 hours or so. A third thing is planned for next week sometime. I don't know at this point if it's friendship or more, but yay either way! ^_^

[MountainKing]

...this sounds like my grandfather.

...except he invited all his girlfriends to his wedding. And conveniently left out that he was the one getting married.

...I wouldn't recommend doing that were I you. >.>

...that sounds like the makings of possibly the best "You had to be there!" stories EVER. :smallbiggrin:

[Glass Mouse]

Some semi private stuff behind the cut

It sounds like it is.

First, my advice is to sit her down and explain how you feel. Don't put it in terms of you did, you said, but I feel this.

Secondly, as someone who has to take percocet, lyrica and tramadol hcl because of chronic pain I can tell you, being in chronic pain makes it really hard to control your temper. It makes small frustrations seem like mountains. I am not excusing the behavior but I am not there to watch your relationship with this person 24/7 so I do not know the true dynamic. What I can see is you are upset with this treatment and something needs to change. Your friend sounds like she needs counseling for her pain management issues.


Good advice about framing the conversation around "I feel this" rather than "you did"!

As for the pain thing... In this case, short temper and pettiness are only some on a long list of red flags. An emotionally healthy individual in pain wouldn't set off that many alarms.
Still, the pain management counseling might be an idea. I'll take your word for it :smallsmile:


So I had a second hang-out-y type thing with a girl tonight. 4 hours or so. A third thing is planned for next week sometime. I don't know at this point if it's friendship or more, but yay either way! ^_^

Yay! Go you!

[Dvil]

So, today my band's going on an outdoor adventure course thing as a social group bonding mission thing. I checked the website for this place, and the rules specifically say that long hair has to be tied back.

I guess that ruins my chances of hiding the pair of hickeys I got the other night then...

[Castaras]

I guess that ruins my chances of hiding the pair of hickeys I got the other night then...

If you can't hide them, wear them with pride. :smalltongue:

Or just go about your normal business and not worry about it. :smallsmile:

[MilesTiden]

So, I figured that this would be a good place to get at least some stuff off my chest. The problem is, there is a girl that I quite honestly really do like, and would be quite willing to be in a relationship with her (non-*ahem*-physical, of course, by both of our preferences), as does she. A lot. And from there stems the problem. She has, to her own admission, been known to engage in arbitrary bouts of stalking infatuation, on multiple occasions. I am really worried that she is just sort of infatuated with me, which would make initiating a relationship pretty much the worst thing to do, but I would rather do anything than reject her. :smallfrown: And my usual responses to... pretty much everything are apathy, snarking, and fleeing. Yeah. Not helpful. And we are both incredibly passive people, and have anxiety problems, so neither of us are really likely to take action all that soon. I am just sort of trying not to have everything collapse, because I am already about as stressed out as can be. :smalleek:

Also, when your own sentence structure is painful to read, you should probably go to sleep... But that is just because I have gotten no sleep and am on a phone. At 4:40 in the morning.

[hawkboy772042]

My phone accidentally called a girl that I dated a few years ago and oddly enough, she decided to call me the next day. I'm really confused if whether or not if I should call her and try setting up a date or not since on the one hand she called me, but on the other she told me that she was busy with a test next week. (People can generally make time out of their busy schedules on things).

[RabbitHoleLost]

Medication talk pleases me, as I am a devoted Pharmacy Technician. Infact, I am the friend in question's pharmacy tech, and while I can't give away what she's on, she is on many, many things, and recently came off of them, which might also contribute to the issue.
Furthermore, she's also been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, which makes things pretty weird.

I've never let someone I've been in a romantic relationship with treat me like this, after one incident in college, so it was very hard for me to even look at this friendship like that.
Anyways! I spoke to her yesterday, in between the March for Women's Rights that went down in the state capitol and the bachelorette party. I stated that I felt like she took me and my affection for her for granted, sometimes, and that I was sorry she felt like I wasn't trying, but that sometimes it felt like she was expecting the impossible out of me, like that my whole life should revolve singularly around her.
It went about as expected.
Which means that none of my feelings were valid, in her eyes. That I was just not making her a priority in my life, that I didn't care, that I was irresponsible for not keeping her updated on my social plans, that I was making her out to be a burden in my life.
And then she suggested we take a break.

So, overall, pretty much what you all suggested. In a way, I'm really sad, but I'm also really relieved because I feel like now I can go do things with friends I've really been neglecting for fear of hurting her feelings.
Thanks, everyone, for your input. It was really, really helpful.

[blackfox]

FWIW:
I had a friend with BPD that I've been no-contact with since she had college friends call me and tell me that I should go kill /myself/ for making /her/ feel suicidal. There was a semi-unspoken re-contact condition of 'you no longer meet the criteria of this disease.'
So, 1) I don't blame you and 2) I would /strongly/ suggest that if you get back together with this woman that it is on the condition that she get her ass to intensive therapy. It /is/ curable, but it /does/ take an absurd number of hours per week of effort. And it /is/ worth it.

[Serpentine]

So, today my band's going on an outdoor adventure course thing as a social group bonding mission thing. I checked the website for this place, and the rules specifically say that long hair has to be tied back.

I guess that ruins my chances of hiding the pair of hickeys I got the other night then...*deep breath*
ooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooo ooo

[MountainKing]

Medication talk pleases me, as I am a devoted Pharmacy Technician. Infact, I am the friend in question's pharmacy tech, and while I can't give away what she's on, she is on many, many things, and recently came off of them, which might also contribute to the issue.
Furthermore, she's also been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, which makes things pretty weird.

I've never let someone I've been in a romantic relationship with treat me like this, after one incident in college, so it was very hard for me to even look at this friendship like that.
Anyways! I spoke to her yesterday, in between the March for Women's Rights that went down in the state capitol and the bachelorette party. I stated that I felt like she took me and my affection for her for granted, sometimes, and that I was sorry she felt like I wasn't trying, but that sometimes it felt like she was expecting the impossible out of me, like that my whole life should revolve singularly around her.
It went about as expected.
Which means that none of my feelings were valid, in her eyes. That I was just not making her a priority in my life, that I didn't care, that I was irresponsible for not keeping her updated on my social plans, that I was making her out to be a burden in my life.
And then she suggested we take a break.

So, overall, pretty much what you all suggested. In a way, I'm really sad, but I'm also really relieved because I feel like now I can go do things with friends I've really been neglecting for fear of hurting her feelings.
Thanks, everyone, for your input. It was really, really helpful.

I'm sorry to hear that things went negatively, even if that was expected. As a general rule, I think everyone would say they prefer things going well, as opposed to going badly. Being positive, though, you now have an opportunity to recover a bit. The break gives you time to catch your breath and clear your mind.

[Dvil]

*deep breath*
ooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooo ooo

Quiet, you :smalltongue:

As it turns out, our gaming club may not compete in the student nationals like Cassie's, but we sure do throw the best parties :smallwink:

[dehro]

And then she suggested we take a break.


that's a positive, right there. whether she did it out of being offended or because deep down she recognized you had a few good reasons on your side. you didn't walk out on her.
on the other hand, she also got to set the tone of your mutual taking a step away from one another.
embrace it and make the most of it, so that you're a bit better equipped to deal with her for when she decides that the break is over, which might happen as soon as tomorrow.
learn to say no and to tell her the truths you've been sheltering her from when it's needed.

[Sturmcrow]

I don't know, I wouldn't ascribe it to the chronic pain. As I've mentioned before on the forums, I have a broken back, and I take all 3 of those very same meds you listed, and 4 others(Trazadone and Amirex for sleep, Skelaxin, and one other whose name my mind is blanking on, PLUS a portable TENS unit and a back-brace, also Pensaid? which is a rub on liquid, plus celebrex for the arthritis that has developed in my back) and my temperament is just fine. I'd personally say that their friend has some serious issues that might be best addressed by a psychologist, and that perhaps RabbitHoleLost should suggest a small break from each other while her friend gets her emotions in order, because it honestly sounds like a serious form of depression, or, more likely, Bi-polarism, since it sounds as though her friend often has good Upsides, but then also some awful downswings as well.

Hmmm

I know how much chronic pain has affected my relationships. I have seen how chronic pain has affected my mom. I don't think it is the root cause but I think it can exacerbate any issues.
I pretty much exactly agree that RHL's friend needs counseling/therapy and they should get space.

Also, good to know if I come on hear and complain about injury/medication etc and how it has ravaged my past relationship and affected my life that there is someone who can sympathize. I also take prilosec because I developed GERD after all the meds and steroids. I take other meds too.


Edit - and it seems space has been achieved, good for you Rabbit!

[fergo]

Medication talk pleases me, as I am a devoted Pharmacy Technician. Infact, I am the friend in question's pharmacy tech, and while I can't give away what she's on, she is on many, many things, and recently came off of them, which might also contribute to the issue.
Furthermore, she's also been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, which makes things pretty weird.

I've never let someone I've been in a romantic relationship with treat me like this, after one incident in college, so it was very hard for me to even look at this friendship like that.
Anyways! I spoke to her yesterday, in between the March for Women's Rights that went down in the state capitol and the bachelorette party. I stated that I felt like she took me and my affection for her for granted, sometimes, and that I was sorry she felt like I wasn't trying, but that sometimes it felt like she was expecting the impossible out of me, like that my whole life should revolve singularly around her.
It went about as expected.
Which means that none of my feelings were valid, in her eyes. That I was just not making her a priority in my life, that I didn't care, that I was irresponsible for not keeping her updated on my social plans, that I was making her out to be a burden in my life.
And then she suggested we take a break.

So, overall, pretty much what you all suggested. In a way, I'm really sad, but I'm also really relieved because I feel like now I can go do things with friends I've really been neglecting for fear of hurting her feelings.
Thanks, everyone, for your input. It was really, really helpful.

As others have said, this is probably the best solution. Take advantage of the time to calm down and think about what your friendship really means to you and to her. I don't really have anything to say that hasn't been said already, but just try and keep calm and reasonable while talking to her* :smallsmile:.

* Easier said than done. The other day I was trying to calm down a guy who was threatening to punch one of my friends**, and made a complete pig's ear out of it--I came across too high-handed. Luckily said guy was too busy angrily replying to my friend's smarmy comments***.

** Eh, sort of.

*** Which, of course, he only started making after he had someone in between him and the angry guy.



So, I figured that this would be a good place to get at least some stuff off my chest. The problem is, there is a girl that I quite honestly really do like, and would be quite willing to be in a relationship with her (non-*ahem*-physical, of course, by both of our preferences), as does she. A lot. And from there stems the problem. She has, to her own admission, been known to engage in arbitrary bouts of stalking infatuation, on multiple occasions. I am really worried that she is just sort of infatuated with me, which would make initiating a relationship pretty much the worst thing to do, but I would rather do anything than reject her. :smallfrown: And my usual responses to... pretty much everything are apathy, snarking, and fleeing. Yeah. Not helpful. And we are both incredibly passive people, and have anxiety problems, so neither of us are really likely to take action all that soon. I am just sort of trying not to have everything collapse, because I am already about as stressed out as can be. :smalleek:

Also, when your own sentence structure is painful to read, you should probably go to sleep... But that is just because I have gotten no sleep and am on a phone. At 4:40 in the morning.

At the risk of jumping in over my head, but if you both like her, I would say... just go for it. As long as you take things slowly and keep in mind that you can end it at any time, it'd be a shame to pass up an opportunity.

If you're really worried about it, there's no need to jump into it. You can get there slowly, remembering that you're always free to step away if things start to get too much.

...Maybe?


So, today my band's going on an outdoor adventure course thing as a social group bonding mission thing. I checked the website for this place, and the rules specifically say that long hair has to be tied back.

I guess that ruins my chances of hiding the pair of hickeys I got the other night then...

My family laughed at me and called me a chav :smallfrown:.

[MountainKing]

Not asking for advice or anything. I just need to say this somewhere... and now that I've come back here, I feel at home again.

Without A in my life, I feel empty. I'm conflicted on how to deal with it, but deal with it I will. I don't like the feeling, but... it motivates me. Toward what end, I don't know yet. Only time will tell.

[noparlpf]

Not asking for advice or anything. I just need to say this somewhere... and now that I've come back here, I feel at home again.

Without A in my life, I feel empty. I'm conflicted on how to deal with it, but deal with it I will. I don't like the feeling, but... it motivates me. Toward what end, I don't know yet. Only time will tell.

Welcome to the human emotion "love". Good luck. At least you feel motivation.

[MountainKing]

Welcome to the human emotion "love". Good luck. At least you feel motivation.

I was going to write out an angry, bitter reply. I really was. But, I thought about it, and I changed my mind. My reaction stems more from the pre-existing hurt far, far more than it does from what you actually said. I'm sure you don't mean to say I'm new to how love feels, whether bad or good. It was just you trying to help, in your own way.

I appreciate that.

[noparlpf]

I was going to write out an angry, bitter reply. I really was. But, I thought about it, and I changed my mind. My reaction stems more from the pre-existing hurt far, far more than it does from what you actually said. I'm sure you don't mean to say I'm new to how love feels, whether bad or good. It was just you trying to help, in your own way.

I appreciate that.

Yeah, I'm sorry. Reading it again it does come across a bit callous. I mean to say, yeah, I've been there once, and I know how crappy it can feel. And to be honest I'm a bit jealous that you're motivated to do things. Lack of motivation is my fatal flaw.

[rogueboy]

Well, I just got a (good) surprise upon checking my OKC account after being out of town for the weekend: after sending 8 messages without any replies, I had someone message me without any initiation on my side. It's a nice pick-me-up after feeling somewhat down about the whole process given my lack of anything thus far. As it's past bed-time for me and I drove over 500 miles in the last 2 days (I don't usually drive more than 100 miles in a month, and that's in a busy month), I'll be dealing with the whole 'responding' thing on the morrow. Yay possible progess? :smallbiggrin: Now I just have to try not to screw things up too badly :smalleek::smallwink:

[MountainKing]

Yeah, I'm sorry. Reading it again it does come across a bit callous. I mean to say, yeah, I've been there once, and I know how crappy it can feel. And to be honest I'm a bit jealous that you're motivated to do things. Lack of motivation is my fatal flaw.

It's a fatal flaw of my own as well. I was in the process of making changes to my life when A left my life, but, I wasn't motivated. Now, I'm motivated, but empty inside. So, without sounding too bitter (I hope), I would never wish this kind of motivation on anyone. I wouldn't feel jealous, were I you.

[carpentron]

Anyone willing to give me some advice (by PM)?

[Dallas-Dakota]

Oh hey, Rejectionville, population: Me.

What was planned was chilling for some hours, so we did that. And then we went out for dinner and afterwards watched the fireworks.(Today was Queensday over here, national holiday)

We had a good time, she laughed at pretty much all my jokes, even the bad ones xD, we seemed pretty into eachother, and then, Rejectionville!:smallfrown: Meh.

[rogueboy]

So, update from the previous post (scroll up a few posts if you're curious): the one who messaged me was not someone who I'd be interested in, so I'm going to let it sit without a response. Also noticed that 1 of the girls I've messaged is no longer listed as single (in my visitors window), so that may explain, at least partially, the lack of reply from her.

Hurray for back to square 1, I guess. :smallsigh:

On a side note, what does a listing of "available" rather than "single" mean to people? :smallconfused:

[Serpentine]

Could mean they're in an open or polyamorous relationship.

[rogueboy]

Makes sense, Serp, but she specifically stated (in her questions) that she wasn't interested in an open relationship. I'm assuming that would include a polyamorous relationship as well, though I could be mistaken on that.

I have a habit of forgetting that type of thing, and almost didn't even remember it when you mentioned that. Oops? :smalleek:

[Reluctance]

Lots of people are Available as an artifact of the system. Available happens if you list yourself as Seeing Someone, but are still open for dates. Lots of people will change the first, not know that they have to change the second, and end up Available until they figure things out.

[dehro]

Anyone willing to give me some advice (by PM)?

fire away

On a side note, what does a listing of "available" rather than "single" mean to people? :smallconfused:

*insert bad joke with sexual content here*

[rogueboy]

Lots of people are Available as an artifact of the system. Available happens if you list yourself as Seeing Someone, but are still open for dates. Lots of people will change the first, not know that they have to change the second, and end up Available until they figure things out.

The more you know...


*insert bad joke with sexual content here*

Yup, pretty much. Also, this has somehow become the undertone of my life (at least in one circle of friends) recently, to reasons that I honestly can't explain. Oh well, it keeps things 'interesting', at least :smallbiggrin:

[fergo]

Oh hey, Rejectionville, population: Me.

What was planned was chilling for some hours, so we did that. And then we went out for dinner and afterwards watched the fireworks.(Today was Queensday over here, national holiday)

We had a good time, she laughed at pretty much all my jokes, even the bad ones xD, we seemed pretty into eachother, and then, Rejectionville!:smallfrown: Meh.

Why? What happened? :smalleek:

[Dallas-Dakota]

Well she's almost certainly moving to Scotland to study Biomedical science after the summer.

At the end of the day when we were saying bye to eachother she seemed reluctant to hug me(And normally we're both pretty huggy persons), but I went for it anyway and asked if anything could happen between us despite Scotland, because I really like her and she said ''You're really nice...but no.''

So yeah, most likely a combination of her not liking me I guess and her moving away for six years after the summer.:smallsigh:

[fergo]

I'm sorry man, that's rough :smallfrown:. But there is no way that her deciding not to continue your relationship had anything to do with her not liking you.

Not wanting to continue a relationship long-term, especially when you're going away to uni (I assume this is the case here, correct me if I'm wrong), is natural. Plenty of people break off long term relationships because of it, so stopping a developing relationship from going further is, unfortunately, to be expected.

I know it sounds harsh and unfair, and to be honest, it kind of is. But what you have to take away is that it's a positive experience for you, and if it didn't work out it definitely wasn't your fault.

[Dvil]

My first love broke up with me because her family decided to move away to New Zealand. Admittedly Britain-NZ is a bigger distance than Scotland-Netherlands, but it's the same idea.

Now we've both moved on, and we're really close friends. We don't talk often (due to being 11 timezones apart), but still. You've missed out on a relationship, but I'd bet money that you've not lost the friendship.

[Serpentine]

So a guy on OKCupid has messaged me and started arguments over religion and feminism, the former in which he misrepresents something I've said, and the latter in which he makes sweeping statements equating all feminists with the "manhating" variety.
Protip: best not to do that 'til, oh say... at least the 5th exchange, rather than the 1st -.-

[rogueboy]

So a guy on OKCupid has messaged me and started arguments over religion and feminism, the former in which he misrepresents something I've said, and the latter in which he makes sweeping statements equating all feminists with the "manhating" variety.
Protip: best not to do that 'til, oh say... at least the 5th exchange, rather than the 1st -.-

Wait, that's allowed ever?!? Apparently, I'm well overdue for this conversation with some of my friends... :smalltongue:

[The Succubus]

So a guy on OKCupid has messaged me and started arguments over religion and feminism, the former in which he misrepresents something I've said, and the latter in which he makes sweeping statements equating all feminists with the "manhating" variety.
Protip: best not to do that 'til, oh say... at least the 5th exchange, rather than the 1st -.-

Oh come now, m'dear - everyone knows that pouring scorn over what they believe is the way to a woman's heart, right?

[arguskos]

So a guy on OKCupid has messaged me and started arguments over religion and feminism, the former in which he misrepresents something I've said, and the latter in which he makes sweeping statements equating all feminists with the "manhating" variety.
Protip: best not to do that 'til, oh say... at least the 5th exchange, rather than the 1st -.-
Damn, you're on to me! Gotta change up my tactics!
...
...
Yes, kidding.
...
...
:smalltongue:

[Sturmcrow]

Oh hey, Rejectionville, population: Me.

What was planned was chilling for some hours, so we did that. And then we went out for dinner and afterwards watched the fireworks.(Today was Queensday over here, national holiday)

We had a good time, she laughed at pretty much all my jokes, even the bad ones xD, we seemed pretty into eachother, and then, Rejectionville!:smallfrown: Meh.

You are not the only one in Rejectionville.

I was having a good time working on something with a friend of mine who told me she was not ready for a committed relationship. Than a guy she was talking to in MO wanted them to be committed and she went ahead even though we both are in CA. /sigh

Other fish in the sea and all that right?

The feeling sucks but just got to keep moving on, some other person will come along and laugh at your jokes tool

[MountainKing]

So a guy on OKCupid has messaged me and started arguments over religion and feminism, the former in which he misrepresents something I've said, and the latter in which he makes sweeping statements equating all feminists with the "manhating" variety.
Protip: best not to do that 'til, oh say... at least the 5th exchange, rather than the 1st -.-

Admit it Serp, deep down inside, you want to keep battling him in the arena of debate. :smallwink:

...

I mean, I can't be the only one who will doggedly debate a total stranger into the ground because I think they're wrong over the Internet. Right?

[Serpentine]

Not at the moment. Been doing too much arguing elsewhere, and I've had a seriously ****ty day for reasons that aren't likely to get better anytime soon. So I'm argued out.

[MountainKing]

Awwww man... I hate it when that happens. I'm sorry to hear that, Serp. :smallfrown:

So, since hopefully nobody noticed my past endorsement of unhealthy behavior for coping with pain, here's a positive one I've been exercising all day: cleaning. Seriously, if you're hurt? Go clean your room. Go through all your stuff, find all the random useless gubbins that are mucking up your space, and pitch 'em. Curse my being in an upstairs apartment... there's a pile of boxes of junk congealing in my hallway near the door.

Been a hurting kind of day. But still. Cleaning? Great outlet.

[Velaryon]

Hi everybody, this is my first time posting in this thread. I'm gonna spoiler it because this is going to get long and complex.

I've been seeing this girl (K for short) for about a month. We met through a friend of mine that may have also had designs on her, but that's not the issue at hand here (it is a separate issue that eventually needs resolving, but takes a back seat to my real problem).

Before going any farther I need to explain that this is the first real relationship I've had of any kind. I was always too afraid of rejection to ask anyone out, and my self-esteem has never been very good. It only got worse after years and years of being perpetually single. What made things different in this case was that she actually told me first that she was attracted to me, and from there it wasn't so hard for me.

We hit it off very quickly, and found ourselves telling each other things that we don't commonly share with many people. She told me about a previous relationship of hers that had ended badly because she almost cheated on her boyfriend after they'd had a fight, but she came to her senses and stopped herself before she went all the way through with it. It was still enough that it eventually killed the relationship when she confessed to him about it (I'm not totally clear on the timeline, whether they broke up immediately thereafter or whether it simmered for awhile, but it was definitely the main cause for the split).

I learned that K still felt badly about what she'd done even though it's been a couple of years, and part of her felt like she didn't deserve to be happy with anyone because she would just screw it up again. I helped her see that what she had done wasn't nearly as bad as what she almost did, and that she didn't need to beat herself up about it anymore because she'd caused herself enough emotional suffering about things. She seemed like she was ready to move on, but in the back of my mind I worried whether she might still have feelings for him that would be a problem for me.

A week or two later, she went to a friend's wedding that she knew her ex would also be at because they were mutual friends with the bride and groom. She told me she was going to apologize to him for it and let him know that she'd finally started to get over the guilt she felt, and wish him well with the girl he was seeing now. He blew her off, and she called me in tears and we talked some more.

However, they talked again by phone a couple days later and from her recounting of things to me, they both seemed ready to move on. She wished him well with his new girlfriend and everything. Since he was her first love I expected there would always be some place in her heart for him, but as long as it remained firmly in the past I was okay with that. I might even have been cool with them remaining friends.

But a couple days later, I found out that he dumped his current girlfriend and told K he was ready to get back together if she wanted to. As I'd feared, she still feels something for him, but also has strong feelings for me. She's in a bind where she has to make a choice that will hurt somebody, and feels terrible with that knowledge. If it matters, I believe her ex lives a few hours away from her so physically being together with her is harder for him than it is for me.

So right now we've dialed back the physical aspects of the relationship while she sorts through her feelings and decides who she really wants to be with, but we've still met up a couple more times. We've been out on about six dates now (well, a couple of them might not have really qualified but we've met up about six times), and all of them have gone well in that I haven't done anything wrong to screw it up and we've always had a good time. But now I'm in this situation where I can't be truly happy until/unless this choice is made.

The physical aspect of the relationship has dialed back some but not stopped entirely. Kisses have been more on the cheek the last couple times, rather than full on the mouth with tongue and so on. This past Sunday she took a nap while cuddling with me as we watched TV, and later that evening we went to the last WWE pay per view where we had a great time. She stayed the night at my place because it was a long drive home and I live closer to where she works anyway, but we stayed in separate rooms (I gave up my bed to her and took the couch).

I've accepted that I might lose out, and I know that will hurt like hell but I'll survive. Nonetheless, I want to be the one she chooses if at all possible, and that's where I need some advice. So here are the questions I have:

1) I want to continue to spend time with her and reinforce the feelings we have for each other, but I don't want to seem needy or pushy. I feel like if I ask to see her too often she'll push me away, and I don't want that. How much is too much, or better yet how can I tell (like what signals should I look for) when to back off?

2) Should I initiate anything physically as far as hand-holding, kissing, and so on, or should I hold back and let her totally take the lead on that kind of thing for now? She knows by now that I'm very attracted to her, but I'm unsure whether I would do more harm than good if I try to keep up the kissing and so on.

3) Finally, how long should I wait for her to make a decision? I want to be supportive, but it tears me up inside every day to know that I could be on the verge of losing the best thing that's ever happened to me. I'm capable of enduring it for as long as I have to, and it doesn't seem like a good idea to let on just how much I'm hurting while she is going through this decision. But I don't see much point in prolonging my pain if she becomes unable or unwilling to make a choice, so how long should I wait for her to decide before I decide enough is enough and walk away?

4) In the event she does choose me, should I insist on her breaking contact with him?


Thanks in advance for any help. Simply putting this out there helps somewhat, though I'm badly in need of advice.

[dehro]

1) I want to continue to spend time with her and reinforce the feelings we have for each other, but I don't want to seem needy or pushy. I feel like if I ask to see her too often she'll push me away, and I don't want that. How much is too much, or better yet how can I tell (like what signals should I look for) when to back off?

2) Should I initiate anything physically as far as hand-holding, kissing, and so on, or should I hold back and let her totally take the lead on that kind of thing for now? She knows by now that I'm very attracted to her, but I'm unsure whether I would do more harm than good if I try to keep up the kissing and so on.

3) Finally, how long should I wait for her to make a decision? I want to be supportive, but it tears me up inside every day to know that I could be on the verge of losing the best thing that's ever happened to me. I'm capable of enduring it for as long as I have to, and it doesn't seem like a good idea to let on just how much I'm hurting while she is going through this decision. But I don't see much point in prolonging my pain if she becomes unable or unwilling to make a choice, so how long should I wait for her to decide before I decide enough is enough and walk away?

4) In the event she does choose me, should I insist on her breaking contact with him?
[/SPOILER]

Thanks in advance for any help. Simply putting this out there helps somewhat, though I'm badly in need of advice.

been there..or at least, in a very similar situation.

1) no idea.. there isn't a real way to tell what's right there.. you know her better than any of us ever will. I'd say look for disappointment, steps back, when she puts a bit of a barrier between the two of you.. physically. what the actual signs are is different for each individual.
2)a try or two can't hurt. if anything it can help you with point 1.. and tell you whether she HAS "taken a step back from you"..even though it won't tell you if she's done so out of consideration for yourself or out of attraction for the other guy. all in all I'd say go for it within the boundaries of how confident you are about it and how quickly you'll catch signs of her disapproving.
3)you should talk to her. Maybe without letting on the exact full extent of your involvement..but still try and put forth the message that she's important and being in a limbo sucks for you. I took a step back and let everything in her hands..the net result was that she went with the other guy.
my situation was very different though..
What with me most likely not staying in the country (which indeed happened). you have more to offer in that respect..and you're in a better position to fight for her, so to speak.
4)again, talk it out with her. the fact she hasn't seen him in several years means there's no social involvement unless looked for. Ideally she won't be looking for him once she's chosen you.. an you can ask her to tell him to stay away and respect her choice, at least for a while.. if she goes looking for him, you know however that the problem isn't 100% solved.

all in all I would suggest that talking is the best way to sort these things out and to let her know your feelings may sway her decision (in a non guilt ridden way, that is)...but it IS a fine balancing act.
As long as you remember she isn't "destined" to be with him nor with you.. because destiny is what you make..through action or inaction.

good luck

[Dallas-Dakota]

I'm sorry man, that's rough :smallfrown:. But there is no way that her deciding not to continue your relationship had anything to do with her not liking you.

Not wanting to continue a relationship long-term, especially when you're going away to uni (I assume this is the case here, correct me if I'm wrong), is natural. Plenty of people break off long term relationships because of it, so stopping a developing relationship from going further is, unfortunately, to be expected.

I know it sounds harsh and unfair, and to be honest, it kind of is. But what you have to take away is that it's a positive experience for you, and if it didn't work out it definitely wasn't your fault.

Relationship? uhh, I think you've kinda misunderstood a thing, this was the second date. We met at a concert and have seen eachother a few times but never got the oppertunity to spend real quality time toghetter because I was usually working. (one can only lunch break for so long.:smalltongue:) Besides those times, this was the second date.


You've missed out on a relationship, but I'd bet money that you've not lost the friendship.
Yep, hopefully this, considering she is still a pretty amazing girl, even if just as friends.

Just that rejection so say it bluntly, sucks. xD

[Reluctance]

4) In the event she does choose me, should I insist on her breaking contact with him?

This first. DO NOT DO THIS. Even if you two do end up together, it'll add a yucky vibe to the whole relationship. I can't begin to go into all the ways that this is a bad plan.

As for the rest of the deal, pull back. Make her do the work. It sounds counterintuitive. But when you think about it, people want what they don't have. Being her puppy dog will just make her think she can mistreat you and you'll still lap it up. Your best hope here is to let her realize that her pick is for real. Saying it out loud is tacky and crass. Just check yourself. She'll then understand that giving up on you means giving up on you.

Everything else requires nothing more than the usual oneitis treatment. Go out, interact with other girls, realize that the world is full of them. You'll be a lot more level headed after you've had at least a mild crush and a few dates with someone new.

[Sholos]

What's that feeling when you want to see someone but still have a whole day until your scheduled meet time and you know that's going to be too short because you're only going to have an hour, maybe two, with them?

[Heliomance]

Infatuation. Don't worry, it's perfectly normal.

[Sholos]

Infatuation. Don't worry, it's perfectly normal.

Right. Coupled with my not being naturally patient is making today annoying... :smalltongue:

[Knight13]

This first. DO NOT DO THIS. Even if you two do end up together, it'll add a yucky vibe to the whole relationship.
Seconded. Insisting that she break off contact with him entirely makes it sound like you don't trust her to not get involved with him again.

[Serpentine]

Random observation: I switched my location on OKCupid from Australia to the UK just the other day. Since then, I've been getting more messages than before, but of generally far lesser* quality. 'sup with that?

*In terms both of compatibility and quality of opening message. Basically before I'd receive one once in a full moon, but they'd almost all be someone I'd actually like to talk to. Now I'm getting a couple a week, but I'm not the least bit interested in most of them.

[Dvil]

Random observation: I switched my location on OKCupid from Australia to the UK just the other day. Since then, I've been getting more messages than before, but of generally far lesser* quality. 'sup with that?

*In terms both of compatibility and quality of opening message. Basically before I'd receive one once in a full moon, but they'd almost all be someone I'd actually like to talk to. Now I'm getting a couple a week, but I'm not the least bit interested in most of them.

Turns out, we're actually all a bunch of hairy, lager-brained louts. Most of us can't even read. I hear Guinness cures it though, which explains why I'm so dashing :smallbiggrin:

[prufock]

As I'd feared, she still feels something for him, but also has strong feelings for me. She's in a bind where she has to make a choice that will hurt somebody, and feels terrible with that knowledge. If it matters, I believe her ex lives a few hours away from her so physically being together with her is harder for him than it is for me.

I'm going to offer what may be unpopular opinions.

First, you've only been seeing each other for a month, so neither of you should be all that invested. This is okay. She isn't sure about you yet, and there's no telling how far you will go. This is also okay. However, she is keeping both you and the ex on a string. This is not okay.

I want you to change your mindset here for a minute. Forget the other guy exists. She doesn't know him, has no history with him. The question is not "which of us will she pick?" but "does she want to continue to see ME?" If the answer is YES, you continue to see each other. If the answer is NO, you do not. Yes, it is that simple.

Now you bring the ex back into it. If she's dating you, she doesn't date him, and should make it clear to both of you. If she's not dating you, she's free to date whomever else she wishes.

If she refuses to choose, you choose for her, with your feet. Don't make a big deal out of it, don't yell, don't get teary-eyed, don't storm out. Just say, "listen, you have to make a choice here."

Because right now, you are giving her all the hand. The questions you asked are geared towards "winning" her. How long should you wait? She's had plenty of time.

EDIT: And I should point out, I agree with not demanding she break contact, that's bad form and shows insecurity.

[Velaryon]

Thanks for the advice, those who responded. It seems that the one point on which everyone is in agreement is that I shouldn't try to make her stay away from him if things go my way, so I'll take that as definitely the right choice.

A further update on the situation:

I feel better about the way things are looking than I did before. We talked on the phone for several hours yesterday, and texted a bunch before that (I'm thinking the pay-as-you-go phone I've used in the past may not be adequate for much longer), and as always I feel better after we talk. But it's not without good reasons, I think.

First of all, he's pretty settled in his hometown which is a good couple hours away from where she's living right now, and doesn't seem like he would want to move. She just started a new job a couple months ago that she absolutely loves and would have to give up if she moved downstate to be with him, not to mention that she wouldn't be able to see the friends she has closer to home nearly as often. With me, that's not a problem at all.

Second, one of the biggest advantages he has is that they dated for a long time, have a history, and she knows him very well. She knows what she's getting with him, both the good and the bad. I'm more of an unknown quantity. We've shared a remarkable amount in the short time we've been together, but the focus has more often been on her. And even so, you can't share everything in so short a time. This seems like a pretty easy thing to remedy, as all it really means is that she needs to get to know me better.

Third, they broke up almost two years ago. While it's only recently that she got over her guilt at what happened, she's had time to heal and to adjust to his not being there. While they've met in person twice in the past couple weeks (once at their friend's wedding where this all started and once at Anime Central), it's still less time than she spends with me on the phone or in person, and that seems like a good sign. On top of that she has a birthday party coming up this weekend at which I will be and he will not (due I assume to the long drive but maybe for other reasons as well).

These all seem like good signs to me. Obviously it's a slanted view of the situation since I can't tell you about signs I don't see, but it seems like there's good reason to think things will go the way I want. Based on what I'm able to tell you, does this seem like an accurate assessment?

[noparlpf]

Seems like other people gave you this already, but I'll agree that attempting to control her is a bad way to make things work. Jealousy may be pretty hard-wired into you human folks, but try not to let it make you controlling. You can say what you feel and want, and give advice, but you can't control what she does.

[dehro]

in principle, yes, it is an accurate assessment but, sorry to pee on your parade here, it is an assessment based on measurements, quantities, distances and hours. all of that means absolutely zilch if she decides she'd rather go back on the old beat and rekindle that romance, rather than to take the selfdeclared unknown quantity.
don't faint just yet..it isn't as bad as it sounds, you seem to be doing positive things and it might turn out well..just..don't base your confidence on hours of togetherness or on logical assumptions about where one's at with one's life and the logistics involved... you don't want those calculations to bring you to highs from which you'd fall harder should they prove to have been in vain.
logics tend to be trodden on repeatedly in these matters..often with high heels.

I think it's fair to say that we're rooting for you, but things are still at first base, just like they were before this phonecall. Until she's made up her mind, you'll be dancing on a tightrope...highs after conversations and lows after unclear signs and mixed signals, or maybe other events or moves from "the other guy".
Your only options here are continue dancing until she's worked through her doubts and made her mind up, or help her make that decision..through any means in your arsenal..action, inaction, grand gestures, talking, not talking..you know her better than we do.. anything that you might think works..
either way, whether you dance or stop dancing, the outcome is anyone's guess...I myself hope you'll get the girl and be happy with her, because when these things do happen, the world is ever so slightly a better place for it..
Practical suggestions on how to do that? I don't think anyone here can give you one without knowing you, her, the other guy... so I'm not going to try. the only thing I have experienced is that abbandoning the field altogether does nothing but increase the other guy's chances. but that was "my girl"..yours might be different.
good luck

[prufock]

Based on what I'm able to tell you, does this seem like an accurate assessment?

Obviously we only have your side of this, with your analysis and personal foibles. There are a few things I would caution against.

1- Don't approach this as a game. As I said before, this isn't you vs. him, this is being with you vs. not being with you. Try not to look at this as a game of balancing pros and cons, of points for and points against, with her as both the referee and prize. This kind of attitude, to me, seems stressful. Besides, do you really want her to pick you based on convenience? You just be you. If she digs that, great.

2- Don't let her use this to manipulate you or string you along. You mentioned before some self-esteem issues; just don't fall into that sort of trap.

3- Don't view this as the be-all end-all.

I wish you luck!

[MountainKing]

I need to vent. Again, not asking for advice. Just... need to say this somewhere, or I'll break down.

So, A had a couple of friends who, I considered acquaintences. I liked them, sure, but I build my friendships slowly. They considered me a friend because they build their friendships in the opposite direction, starting people at best friend and slowly working them down if they deserved it. Right before A left my life, I had a really good talk with the friends (we'll call them J and L), and even after A left, I talked with J and things appeared to be totally fine.

Then weird stuff started happening. First, A booted me off her Facebook list (pretty natural seeming action, considering). Then, a day or two after A left my life, I noticed that J and L had also left my list of friends. I asked them about it, and J said he'd deleted his Facebook profile because his work asked him too. Okay, sounds reasonable. L basically reacted to my question like I was crazy, all like "No? Why would I do that?" and such. Yet, when I told her that she was gone from my friends list, she stopped saying anything.

Next, easily a week after A left, I noticed that J had started following my tumblr, and I was like, "Oh cool! Friends!". So I followed him back and felt a little better about life for a little bit. Then today... I noticed he wasn't following me anymore.

On top of that last one, earlier today (before I saw he had un-followed me), I sent J a text message saying that when he has some time to talk, I had a question about nutrition-type stuff. He's a resident who almost has his doctorate totally wrapped up, I mean, I figure he's about the best person I could ask. He never responded, so I sent L a message over Skype a few hours later. She never responded.

Now, both J and L show as offline, but I know for a fact that at least J is online, because he's been re-blogging stuff on tumblr (I'm still following him, as I rather like the stuff he re-blogs), and has been the entire time I've been writing this post.

It hurts, because, I thought they wanted to be my friends... even after A left my life, I had that comfort. I still had a couple of other friends, even if they weren't A. I never pestered them about her, or anything like that. It feels like they've lied to me, and have done their best to carefully and quietly cut me out of their lives.

I hate the feeling. I want to call them, and quote Malcolm Reynolds in my darkest, somberest, most serious tone possible.

"Next time you try to stab me in the back... have the guts to do it to my face."

That's what I want to say. That's how I feel. It hurts, it hurts really badly, and it makes me feel like I am less of a person. At least A had the courtesy and the guts to sit me down and confront me face to face.

I'm so angry. It's like a hot, seething undercurrent beneath all the hurt. What they've done has brought back everything I felt a week ago. I want to give up. Just fall over and go to sleep. Pretend that today didn't happen. But I can't, so I won't. I have to keep moving forward. I have a lot to get done yet today, and I can't let these stupid feelings slow me down or stop me.

I'm stronger than this, I know it.
Sometimes, it's just harder to be strong.

Writing is cathartic. This helped. Not enough, but it helped.

[prufock]

I need to vent. Again, not asking for advice. Just... need to say this somewhere, or I'll break down.

A "like" button is not a good indicator of friendship. Friends are the people you talk to, spend time with, invite you to do things, and show up when you invite them. If they meet these criteria, who cares if they follow you on tumblr? And if they don't, they aren't really friends in the first place.