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Empedocles
2012-04-18, 12:28 AM
The Enkarni

http://i.imgur.com/Z0trTl.jpg

The darkness within me is hungry...

The enkarni is, by himself, a warrior of average skill. However, he possesses the power to summon a massive "avatar," a personification of his inner power that possesses tremendous strength. The avatar is spawned of the enkarni's will but despite this, it is a separate entity. Many are of slightly different alignments then their enkarni, and this leads to much internal conflict for both of them.

Adventures: Enkarni adventure for the same reasons anyone might. They seek wealth, possibly power, and probably fame.

Characteristics: By himself, the enkarni is a subpar melee combatant, inferior to the fighter. However, his avatar is tremendously strong and possesses far more versatile abilities then him. Also, as he progresses in levels the enkarni learns some utilitarian magical abilities.

Alignment: Enkarni can be of any alignment. However, their avatars are always chaotic, which can lead to some conflict between the two.

Religion: Enkarni are usually not religious, since they have such an inner focus with their avatar.

Background: Enkarni are born with the potential to develop an avatar from their feelings, but not all discover this ability. Those that do often uncover this power in a time of great need, desperation, or anger. Enkarni are never trained.

Races: Enkarni are rare among the monstrous humanoids and goblinoids, but otherwise have an equal chance to be of any race.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Enkarni have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Wisdom is the enkarni's most important ability score, since it is the primary factor in determining the strength of his avatar. His physical attributes are also very important.
Alignment: Any. However, all avatars are chaotic.
Hit Die: d10
Starting Age: As fighter.
Starting Gold: As cleric.

Class Skills
The enkarni's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are...

Climb, Concentration, Craft, Iaijutsu Focus, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Spot, Survival, Tumble.

Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Enkarni
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|Avatar, Spells, Partial Summon

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+3|Enhancement

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|Strength Within

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Enhancement

5th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|

6th|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+5|Enhancement

7th|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+5|Shield of Mind

8th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+6|
+6|Enhancement

9th|
+6/+1|
+3|
+6|
+6|

10th|
+7/+2|
+3|
+7|
+7|Enhancement

11th|
+8/+3|
+3|
+7|
+7|Bonus Feat

12th|
+9/4|
+4|
+8|
+8|Enhancement

13th|
+9/+4|
+4|
+8|
+8|

14th|
+10/+5|
+4|
+9|
+9|Enhancement

15th|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+9|
+9|

16th|
+12/+17/+2|
+5|
+10|
+10|Enhancement

17th|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+10|Bonus Feat

18th|
+13/+8/+4|
+6|
+11|
+11|Enhancement

19th|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+11|

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+12|
+12|Enhancement[/table]

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the enkarni.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The enkarni is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor, but not with shields.

Avatar: This is the primary class ability of the enkarni. It allows him to, as a standard action a number of times per day equal to his level plus his wisdom modifier, summon an incarnation of his inner strength and power known as an avatar. An avatar is essentially a separate character from the enkarni that the enkarni controls, although it does have a separate personality; the enkarni simply controls its physical actions. An avatar is a size category larger then its enkarni, and has the same physical ability scores with the following exceptions: the enkarni adds 1/2 his class level and his wisdom modifier to the avatar's Strength, Dexterity and Constitution scores. The avatar has a 10 Intelligence, a 12 Wisdom, and a 10 Charisma. Its mental ability scores remained unchanged. It has the same number of HD as its enkarni but it rolls a d12 instead of a d10. Every time the enkarni levels up, the avatar gains a HD as a humanoid (similar to the way monster HD advancement works). It has only 2 skill points at each HD (x4 at 1st) and all of the enkarni's class skills are considered class skills for the avatar. The avatar wields the same type of weapon as the enkarni, but it is sized appropriately and has an additional +1 to whatever enhancement bonus the enkarni's weapon has (if the enkarni's weapon is nonmagical, the avatar's is instead magical, and if the enkarni's weapon is masterwork, the avatar's weapon has a +1 enhancement bonus). If the avatar lets go of his weapon it disappears. An avatar also appears to wear armor, which in fact provides an enhancement bonus to AC equal to the enkarni's wisdom modifier. If an avatar is dropped below 0 HP, it disappears and cannot be summoned again until it has recovered to 0 HP or above. If the attack would drop it below -10 HP it cannot be summoned for 1 week. While not summoned, an avatar recovers a number of HP equal to the enkarni's wisdom modifier each day. When summoned, an avatar lasts for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the enkarni's level plus his wisdom modifier. An avatar gains additional special abilities as the enkarni levels up. An avatar also cannot move more then 100 ft. away from the enkarni after it is summoned. The avatar's saves to the enkarni's, it has a good BAB progression, and it has feats as appropriate for its HD.

Spells: An enkarni can cast arcane spells spontaneously. He can cast any spell on his spell list of an appropriate level. His save DCs and bonus spells per day is based on wisdom. These spells are drawn from the enkarni spell list below. Any spell with a beneficial effect affecting the enkarni also affect his avatar, and vice cersa.

{table=head]Spells Per-Day
{table=head]Level |0| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
1st | 3 | 2 | - | - | - | - |
2nd | 4 | 3 | - | - | - | - |
3rd | 5 | 4 | - | - | - | - |
4th | 6 | 5 | - | - | - | - |
5th | 6 | 5 | 2 | - | - | - |
6th | 6 | 6 | 3 | - | - | - |
7th | 6 | 6 | 5 | - | - | - |
8th | 6 | 7 | 6 | - | - | - |
9th | 6 | 7 | 6 | 2 | - | - |
10th | 6 | 8 | 7 | 3 | - | - |
11th | 6 | 8 | 7 | 5 | - | - |
12th | 6 | 8 | 8 | 6 | - | - |
13th | 6 | 9 | 8 | 6 | 2 | - |
14th | 6 | 9 | 8 | 7 | 3 | - |
15th | 6 | 9 | 8 | 7 | 5 | - |
16th | 6 | 9 | 9 | 8 | 6 | - |
17th | 6 | 10 | 9 | 8 | 6 | 2 |
18th | 6 | 10 | 9 | 8 | 7 | 3 |
19th | 6 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 7 | 5 |
20th | 6 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 6 |[/table][/table]


Enhancement: At 2nd level and every even level thereafter, an enkarni can select one of the following special abilities for his avatar to possess.

Rage: The gains the ability to rage, as the barbarian ability. This can be used once per day. He gains an additional use of this ability at 3 HD, and every 3 HD thereafter.

Incorporeal: The avatar can, as a move action, become incorporeal for a number of rounds equal to the enkarni's wisdom modifier. The avatar's weapon also gains the ghosttouched ability.

Fly: The avatar gains a fly speed equal to half its land speed. This does not allow it to go more then 100 ft. away from the enkarni, as usual.

True Strike: The avatar can use true strike as a spell-like ability once per day. He gains an additional use of this ability at 3 HD, and every 3 HD thereafter.

Breath Weapon: The avatar gains a breath weapon. It is a 30 ft. cone that deals 1d8 points of damage per 2 HD the enkarni possesses. The type of damage it deals is chosen when this ability is selected.

Invisibility: The avatar can use invisibility as a spell-like ability once per day. He gains an additional use of this ability at 3 HD, and every 3 HD thereafter.

Shadow Avatar: The avatar can select 1 Shadow Hand maneuver to use as a swordsage, with an initiator level equal to 1/2 the avatar's HD (he can select maneuvers of an according level). Its recovery method is identical to the warblade's. The avatar can select an additional shadow hand maneuver instead of a new enhancement.

Fast Movement: The avatar's speed is increased by 10 feet. This ability can be selected up to 3 times, and its effects stack.

Targeted Dispel: A number of times per day equal to the enkarni's wisdom modifier, when the avatar successfully makes a melee attack it can also make a dispel magic check against whatever it hit, with a CL equal to the avatar's HD. This enhancement cannot be selected before level 6.

Gaseous Form: The avatar can use gaseous form as a spell-like ability with a CL equal to 1/2 its HD. This ability cannot be selected before level 6. It is usable once per day when selected. He gains an additional use of this ability at 3 HD, and every 3 HD thereafter.

Magic Circle against Law (Su): A magic circle against law effect always surrounds the avatar (CL equals the avatarís HD). The enkarni must be at least 6th level to select this enhancement. It is usable once per day when selected. He gains an additional use of this ability at 3 HD, and every 3 HD thereafter.

Swim (Ex): The avatar gains a swim speed equal to its base land speed. This does not allow it to go more then 100 ft. away from the enkarni, as usual. It also gains the ability to breathe underwater.

Resilience: The avatar gains a +2 bonus to natural armor. In addition, whenever it is "newly" summoned, it is treated as if stoneskin had been cast on it. The stoneskin lasts until it is either drained or a number of rounds equal to the enkarni's wisdom modifier has passed. This ability cannot be selected before level 8.

Partial Summon: A number of times per day equal to the number of uses the enkarni can summon his avatar times 5, he can make a partial summon. A partial summon allows him to summon a part of his avatar, like a hand to reach out and grab an enemy or have the upper body of the avatar come out and protect him. A partial summon cannot be made while the avatar is summoned, and damage can be dealt to the individual parts of the avatar which affects the avatar's HP total. Different parts have different effects. A partial summon lasts twice as long as the avatar normally would. All abilities use the normal avatar's strength, dexterity, AC, and BAB. However partial summons are treated as being 1 size category smaller then the actual avatar, which is especially important for calculating AC. All partial summons move with the enkarni. An enkarni can combine partial summons if he wishes. Making a partial summon is an immediate action.

Left Arm: The left arm summon has 10 ft. reach, and can make grapple checks and bull rush attempts with the avatar's strength bonus. In addition, it can make an unarmed attack that deals 1d6 points of damage. The left arm partially shields the enkarni, granting him a +2 deflection bonus to AC and allowing him to mitigate up to half the damage he takes from a single attack to the avatar (so the avatar takes the damage instead).

Right Arm: The right arm summon has 10 ft. reach and wields the avatar's normal weapon. It can make attacks with said weapon with the avatar's physical attributes and BAB. The right arm partially shields the enkarni, granting him a +2 deflection bonus to AC and allowing him to mitigate up to half the damage he takes from a single attack to the avatar (so the avatar takes the damage instead).

Torso: The torso partial summon appears around the enkarni, allowing him to transfer any damage he takes to his avatar and granting him a +5 deflection bonus to AC.

Legs: The enkarni cannot create each leg separately. When summoned the increase his base land speed by 20 ft.

Strength Within: Starting at 3rd level the enkarni adds his wisdom bonus to all saves he makes. This bonus also applies to his avatar.

Shield of Mind: Starting at 7th level the enkarni adds his wisdom modifier to his AC.

Bonus Feats: At 11th, and 17th level the enkarni can select one bonus feat he meets the prerequisites for.

Spell List0: Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Virtue, Resistance, Prestidigitation.
1: Animate Rope, Expeditious Retreat, Grease, Feather Fall, Obscure Object, Doom, Entropic Shield, Endure Elements, Sanctuary, Shield, Mage Armor, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, Reduce Person.
2: Alter Self, Blur, Darkness, Eagle's Splendor, Darkness, Detect Thoughts, Heroism, Invisibility, Rage, Silence, Tongues, Aid, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Owl's Wisdom, Protection from Arrows, Web.
3: Blink, Dispel Magic, Displacement, Gaseous Form, Haste, Invisibility Sphere, Slow, Fly, Continual Flame, Helping Hand, Magic Vestment, Stone Shape, Win Wall, Keen Edge.
4: Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Shadow Conjuration, Air Walk, Discern Lies, Imbue With Spell Ability, Sending, Stoneskin.
5: Greater heroism, Shadow Walk, Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Disrupting Weapon, Wall of Stone, Teleport, Overland Flight, Passwall.

Empedocles
2012-04-18, 04:46 PM
Added in spells/day and special abilities. Any feedback so far?

toapat
2012-04-18, 04:52 PM
the problem here is that no matter how fun this class is, you are still making a guy who can summon 5 very powerful barbarians at lvl 20, that have a total health equal to 2.5 times that of the normal avatar.

Tarvon000
2012-04-18, 05:01 PM
What you have so far looks very good. It reminds me of a cross between the Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172910) and the Summoner, two of my favorite classes. You should state whether the abilities are (Ex), (Su), (Sp), or (Ps), though.

Before I make any suggestions for the enkarni's enhancements or class features, what Tier is it intended to be?

Empedocles
2012-04-18, 05:03 PM
the problem here is that no matter how fun this class is, you are still making a guy who can summon 5 very powerful barbarians at lvl 20, that have a total health equal to 2.5 times that of the normal avatar.

So the lesser avatars are too much? What about if I made you divide the original avatars health among them according to the number: so 3 avatars have 1/3 the avatars health, 4 have 1/4th the avatars health, and 5 have a fifth of the avatars health each.

Also, need ideas for class features, enhancements, and that 1 dead level...

Empedocles
2012-04-18, 05:04 PM
What you have so far looks very good. It reminds me of a cross between the Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172910) and the Summoner, two of my favorite classes. You should state whether the abilities are (Ex), (Su), (Sp), or (Ps), though.

Before I make any suggestions for the enkarni's enhancements or class features, what Tier is it intended to be?

High Tier 3. And I'm glad you liked it :smallsmile: The concept was pretty much entirely based on the picture, but I later drew inspiration from both those classes.

eftexar
2012-04-18, 07:19 PM
This reminds me of a manga I read once where peoples shadows could fight. Anyways I really like this. I think the lesser avatars thing is unnecessary. I'm tempted to say a nerfed version of lesser avatars for enhancements would be more appropriate. Maybe replace the lesser enhancement abilities with abilities that let the character and his avatar feed off of each others capabilities.
On another note though I have tried a few attempts at an elementalist (one that summons elementals, not necessarily that control the elements) and failed (it wasn't even worth posting). I was wondering if I could steal some of your mechanics if I get around to trying it again.

Empedocles
2012-04-18, 07:28 PM
This reminds me of a manga I read once where peoples shadows could fight. Anyways I really like this. I think the lesser avatars thing is unnecessary. I'm tempted to say a nerfed version of lesser avatars for enhancements would be more appropriate. Maybe replace the lesser enhancement abilities with abilities that let the character and his avatar feed off of each others capabilities.
On another note though I have tried a few attempts at an elementalist (one that summons elementals, not necessarily that control the elements) and failed (it wasn't even worth posting). I was wondering if I could steal some of your mechanics if I get around to trying it again.

Okay...if I take out the lesser avatars thing, what should replace it...?

Also, it's fine if you steal my mechanics :smallbiggrin: I would appreciate a disclaimer and a link to this class though if you do do that :smalltongue:

Kane0
2012-04-18, 07:30 PM
*Cue applause*

I have an idea of your still worried about dead levels. How about making yourself disappear while your avatar (not lesser avatars though) is present?

Empedocles
2012-04-18, 07:50 PM
*Cue applause*

I have an idea of your still worried about dead levels. How about making yourself disappear while your avatar (not lesser avatars though) is present?

Not sure I like that...sorry. It doesn't really fit with what I'm thinking for this class.

Also, removed lesser avatar ability. Thoughts for replacing it?

eftexar
2012-04-18, 07:56 PM
As I said earlier what about abilities that work with some sort of interaction between the player and the avatar.
Or you could do a special ability progression, allowing access to minor class abilities like sneak attack, rage, or skirmish.

Empedocles
2012-04-18, 07:59 PM
As I said earlier what about abilities that work with some sort of interaction between the player and the avatar.
Or you could do a special ability progression, allowing access to minor class abilities like sneak attack, rage, or skirmish.

That's an interesting idea...for example, the enkarni could channel spells through the avatar (that's a really simple example). Should've paid it more attention the first time you said that sorry :smalleek:

By a special ability progression, do you mean one where the enkarni chooses the progression? Or I just give him skirmish or something? Something that does bonus damage on a flank would be cool since it would encourage teamwork with the avatar.

Tarvon000
2012-04-18, 08:23 PM
I can't think of any class features just yet, but here are a couple ideas for enhancements:

Magic Circle against Law (Su): A magic circle against law effect always surrounds the avatar (CL equals the avatarís HD). The enkarni must be at least 6th level to select this enhancement.

Swim (Ex): The avatar gains a swim speed equal to its base land speed. This does not allow it to go more then 100 ft. away from the enkarni, as usual. It also gains the ability to breathe underwater.

Also, I like the Lesser Avatar ability (although I agree with eftexar that it might work better as an enhancement), but I noticed that it only allows one (other) enhancement per avatar. Since an enkarni gets an enhancement at every other level, most of his enhancements will be useless at high levels if he uses this ability. I would suggest simply forcing the enkarni to divide his enhancements any way he likes among the avatars he summons. The avatar's feats could likewise be divided up.

Edit: Didn't notice that you already removed Lesser Avatar. I would suggest moving the bonus feat from 6th level to 5th level, since it both removes a dead level and makes more sense in relation to the rest of the bonus feat progression.

Empedocles
2012-04-18, 08:30 PM
I can't think of any class features just yet, but here are a couple ideas for enhancements:

Magic Circle against Law (Su): A magic circle against law effect always surrounds the avatar (CL equals the avatarís HD). The enkarni must be at least 6th level to select this enhancement.

Swim (Ex): The avatar gains a swim speed equal to its base land speed. This does not allow it to go more then 100 ft. away from the enkarni, as usual. It also gains the ability to breathe underwater.

Also, I like the Lesser Avatar ability (although I agree with eftexar that it might work better as an enhancement), but I noticed that it only allows one (other) enhancement per avatar. Since an enkarni gets an enhancement at every other level, most of his enhancements will be useless at high levels if he uses this ability. I would suggest simply forcing the enkarni to divide his enhancements any way he likes among the avatars he summons. The avatar's feats could likewise be divided up.

Edit: Didn't notice that you already removed Lesser Avatar. I would suggest moving the bonus feat from 6th level to 5th level, since it both removes a dead level and makes more sense in relation to the rest of the bonus feat progression.

Copy-and-pasted those abilities. Thanks :smallsmile:

I agree with the bonus feat change.

bobthe6th
2012-04-18, 09:43 PM
seems pretty good, so a sort of a weak fighter gish with a suped up animal companion.

but needs some higher level abilaties. as is, only a few abilaties scale to level... like rage being a whole barb progression of uses per day and such. give greater enhancements as the class levels, even allowing chains.

could you can have the class be able to desummon the avatar and resummon it acting as if it rested a day?

also, how about heals cast on the ekrithingamy heal the avatar when desummond that amount minus its negative hits? so heavy damage keeps it out, but it can be fixed.


suggestion: allow an enhancment to size up the avatar(with a swift action size down or somthing)

Empedocles
2012-04-18, 09:48 PM
seems pretty good, so a sort of a weak fighter gish with a suped up animal companion.

but needs some higher level abilaties. as is, only a few abilaties scale to level... like rage being a whole barb progression of uses per day and such. give greater enhancements as the class levels, even allowing chains.

could you can have the class be able to desummon the avatar and resummon it acting as if it rested a day?

also, how about heals cast on the ekrithingamy heal the avatar when desummond that amount minus its negative hits? so heavy damage keeps it out, but it can be fixed.


suggestion: allow an enhancment to size up the avatar(with a swift action size down or somthing)

Like a "pump up" thing where he boosts its size, and maybe its strength and constitution as well?

bobthe6th
2012-04-18, 09:57 PM
like he can size it up, getting normal sizing bonus and detractions(-1 ac-1to hit...), then size down for cheap to fit in dungeons. so medium human and large avatar go into the dragons lairs side entrance, then they get to the dragons extinict volcanoe lair and the avatar sizes up a bit. look at my shield for the mechanic.

Empedocles
2012-04-18, 10:05 PM
like he can size it up, getting normal sizing bonus and detractions(-1 ac-1to hit...), then size down for cheap to fit in dungeons. so medium human and large avatar go into the dragons lairs side entrance, then they get to the dragons extinict volcanoe lair and the avatar sizes up a bit. look at my shield for the mechanic.

I wrote one up. I feel like it should scale better though, and possibly allow for more size increases at higher levels.

bobthe6th
2012-04-18, 10:17 PM
still... the one day SLAs are bad, just really bad. a)let the avatar rangaler cast personal spells on the avatar, and b) make all enhancements scaled.

Tarvon000
2012-04-19, 02:55 PM
Now that I've looked over this class more carefully, here are some more suggestions.

It's okay to give the avatar's weapon an enhancement bonus even if it isn't masterwork. Most magical effects that grant enhancement bonuses apply to non-masterwork weapons.

Power Avatar 1/day and Shield of Mind should probably have the level at which you get them switched. It makes more sense in relation to the rest of the Power Avatar progression. Also, if you want Power Avatar to allow for more size increases you can make the size change stack with itelf.

As for more class features, you could give the enkarni Shield Ally at 9th level and Greater Shield Ally at 15th level (as the summoner abilities, but regarding his avatar intead).

Also, a feat:

EXTRA POWER AVATAR [GENERAL]
You can change your avatar's size more times per day.
Prerequisite: Power Avatar class feature.
Benefit: You can use Power Avatar one additional time per day.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Edit: Speaking of feats, I just noticed the bonus feats don't match the table.

Codemus
2012-04-19, 04:49 PM
I love the class, really cool. A few nit picks however.


Strength Within: Starting at 3rd level the enkarni adds his wisdom bonus to all saves he makes. This bonus also applies to his avatar.

About the bonus the avatar gets, is it the avatar's own (a paltry +1) or the enkarni's hopefully more robust bonus?


Power Avatar: An ability that all enkarni learn is the power to control the size of their avatar. Once per day, then can either increase their avatar's size category by 1 or reduce it by 1. This carries all of the normally associated penalties and bonuses a change in size entails. The enkarni gains an additional use of this ability at 13th and 19th level.

Does this power last for the complete duration of the summon, or is it on a seperate timer? Also, maybe denote an action to use it, even if it is a free action. I'd lean to it being a swift action however.

zegram 33
2012-04-19, 05:50 PM
this might not be your plan for the class, but what about some sort of semi-summon
like, on a full attack you can have your avatar appear through you and strike instead, or some such. that might alleviate the issue with not being able to do much if the avatar uses run out?
similarly, what about allowing your avatar and yourself to BOTH be moving at higher levels?

Empedocles
2012-04-19, 09:02 PM
this might not be your plan for the class, but what about some sort of semi-summon
like, on a full attack you can have your avatar appear through you and strike instead, or some such. that might alleviate the issue with not being able to do much if the avatar uses run out?
similarly, what about allowing your avatar and yourself to BOTH be moving at higher levels?

I LOVE that idea. I need to think for awhile on how to implement it best though.

zegram 33
2012-04-20, 09:56 AM
glad your a fan :smallsmile:
could possibly cause a percentage of the damage to yourself as non-lethal damage, showing the strain of keeping it out, or some such?
i find nonlethal damage is pretty underused as a tiredness or strain mechanic
might be a tad fiddly though i guess

Sgt. Cookie
2012-04-20, 11:31 AM
Here is an idea for the "Semi-summon"

Avatar's blade (Su)
Whenever your avatar has not been summoned, you may make a full attack, with your avatar fueling every strike. You deal damage as though you were the avatar, and gain an additional attack at your highest BaB bonus.


Great class, by the way.

Empedocles
2012-04-20, 10:07 PM
Here is an idea for the "Semi-summon"

Avatar's blade (Su)
Whenever your avatar has not been summoned, you may make a full attack, with your avatar fueling every strike. You deal damage as though you were the avatar, and gain an additional attack at your highest BaB bonus.


Great class, by the way.

Sorry...but that's not really what I was thinking for the partial summons :smallfrown: It's more along the lines of, for you Naruto fans, when Sasuke summons an arm of Susanoo to block an attack without summoning Susanoo itself or have its arm pop out and grab a bad guy. For those of you who don't have the point of reference, or are just looking for a clearer visual of the concept I have for the partial summon...
http://shannaro.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/tumblr_l0i61lwzjn1qaebnwo1_500.jpg

ScrambledBrains
2012-04-21, 01:18 AM
Sorry...but that's not really what I was thinking for the partial summons :smallfrown: It's more along the lines of, for you Naruto fans, when Sasuke summons an arm of Susanoo to block an attack without summoning Susanoo itself or have its arm pop out and grab a bad guy. For those of you who don't have the point of reference, or are just looking for a clearer visual of the concept I have for the partial summon...
http://shannaro.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/tumblr_l0i61lwzjn1qaebnwo1_500.jpg

Maybe impliment a pool of points system, where summoning certain limbs costs a certain amount of points?

On the actual class, I really like it Vilpich. :smallsmile:

zegram 33
2012-04-21, 05:51 PM
hmn yeh, how about instead of summoning it the amount of times given, you can summon each limb 5 times the value given (wisdom+set score or whatever) and each limb costs 1 use.
so say the left arm allows for powerful grapples and bull rushes, the right is either unarmed or melee or some such, the torso blocks damage directed at you up to x value, and the legs all vast movement speed up or some such?

kinda similar idea to a class im working on at the moment, a shapeshifter where you choose each limb set to construct a beast for each situation. im pretty stumped as to other options for semi summoning, though im sure others will have great ideas

EDIT: in case it wasnt clear, that would allow you to summon the whole thing for say 5 points, or ration out weaker attacks more often (realised i hadnt mentioned how the proper summon (which is the classes main ability after all haha) would work in that theoretical idea

Empedocles
2012-04-21, 06:11 PM
hmn yeh, how about instead of summoning it the amount of times given, you can summon each limb 5 times the value given (wisdom+set score or whatever) and each limb costs 1 use.
so say the left arm allows for powerful grapples and bull rushes, the right is either unarmed or melee or some such, the torso blocks damage directed at you up to x value, and the legs all vast movement spee up or some such?

kinda similar idea to a class im working on at the moment, a shapeshifter where you choose each limb set to construct a beast for each situation. im pretty stumped as to other options for semi summoning, though im sure others will have great ideas

Whoa. That works perfectly!

Empedocles
2012-04-21, 06:25 PM
Added in a partial summon mechanic, but it feels a little bit hollow :smallfrown:

zegram 33
2012-04-21, 06:56 PM
well, it should really take a backseat compared to the actual summoning.
but i must say, i like it.
the size category lower is a neat balancing effect, so its noticeably weaker than the actual summon (especially for grappling and such) but still fullly functional and handy.
only thing i would say: you earlier state that the summon uses the same weapon your character does?
so, how would the right hand work if you fought with a two weapons or a double sword or something? (on that note: double sword weilding chaotic spirit summon is one of the coolest possibilities for a class power iv heard of lol)

as an aside (with a possible option for more limbs to choose from) you mention that the pc can cast spells and provide the table, but: can the summon itself cast spells? by default its physical scores are much greater than its mental ones, so it seems like not, but you could add in some sort of trait so that it gains the mental scores instead/as well as the physical ones and have a spellcasting summon, always handy?

just random speculation about how you intended the spells to work when the avatar is out really heh

Dumorimasoddaa
2012-04-21, 07:36 PM
The abilities defiantly need to scale 1/day rage or invisibility fast become useless. Think about adding a scaling mechanic based on class level and/wisdom bonus. Also right of the bat give the Avatar the "shared spell" letting personal and other buffs cast on the Enkarni by the Enkarni to effect the avatar as well, plus let you cast spells as though you where in the same space as the Avatar. Right now losing you Avatar makes really cripples you for 7 days as you lose you main ability and there's no way to speed it up or to heal the Avatar with out burning a daily use of the ability this will add a drain to the party and just eat up time having the avatar take just a day to reform is a huge penalty and letting it full heal at every new day wouldn't be imbalancing what you have is a slightly beefier summon for the early levels (much more so) but by the higher end levels it's rather out shined by any summoning build. Where your summons can be just thrown around as fodder if need be, where as the Avatar is a much less ablative defense it's hit points stay lost and if it dies it's lost for a week. While I like it staying as lost hit points are lost it needs some improvement in how it heals, as well as it's power at higher levels the enchant ments should at leasts scale I mean fly speed is much more powerfull than turning invisible once a day. In fact a paladins mount scales better than the Avatar at higher levels in a good number of regards.

I recommend for the spell list (that I can't find) buff spells and healing spells, I'd consider dropping power avatar and granting just the enlarge and shrink person spells as well as other buffs in that vain.

Empedocles
2012-04-21, 11:04 PM
dropped power avatar, added spell list, and added a clause under spells about sharing spells.

willpell
2012-04-25, 08:18 AM
Ah, I see how the name is spelled now. I still don't quite get what this class is "about" beyond the original picture, and maybe I'm totally harshing your buzz here, but my inclination is to think that the avatar should change from "always chaotic" to "always the opposite of your alignment". Quadruples the character options and creates some nice tension to fuel interesting characterization. The standard option of a Superpowered Evil Side has been done, but it remains a classic, and you now gain the option of an Evil character whose most powerful weapon refuses to let him wield it unless he can coerce it into thinking the cause is righteous, while a devil-may-care Chaotic character has to deal with an unforgiving taskmaster who exacts a price for services rendered. "Corner" aligments get double the fun, and hilariously enough a True Neutral character's "opposite" is exactly like him, but still refuses to cooperate without a good bit of wheedling. (Alternatively you could use my hack where True Neutral is really two alignments, but it's hard to do that without having someone complain that they want their character to be halfway between those two, even if you specifically explained that it doesn't work like that, and I'm not sure you should do that anyway. So if you do end up with yet another True Neutral between them, then the problem recurs. Hence it's easier just to go with "exactly like you except different", Doppelganger style.)

Tarvon000
2012-04-25, 09:32 AM
I like the idea of the partial summon, but I don't understand what the Legs summon is for. If the entire purpose of the torso is to hover around you protecting you from harm, than what's the point of giving it a move speed?

Oh, and willpell, the opposite of True Neutral is supposed to be any one extreme alignment. Just ask the Heirophant.

zegram 33
2012-04-25, 10:17 AM
i think the legs sprout from you and give YOU a greater move speed
at least thats my take

Empedocles
2012-04-25, 05:47 PM
Changed the legs so they make sense....

eftexar
2012-04-25, 06:01 PM
Sorry I haven't commented back to you (for a really long time). When I had said special abilities, I had meant ones you could choose from sort of like the rogue. But onto newer thoughts.

Instead of having, "A number of times per day equal to the number of uses the enkarni can summon his avatar times 5, he can make a partial summon," why not over summoning points or something? What I mean is why not offer a pool of points equal to 5x the number of summons he is allowed per day, having the full summons cost 5 points and each partial summons cost 1 point?

Anyways I really like how this is shaping up. If I get the chance to play another campaign if I have the time (or my current pbp character dies) I might have to try this out.

Sneaky Weasel
2012-05-07, 10:36 PM
Another awesome piece of Vilpich homebrew. Now, at last, I am able to make a creepy d&d version of Tweedledee and Tweedledum!:smallbiggrin:

There are a few questions I have about it, things that it doesn't really make clear. For one thing, what is the avatar's BAB? You said it advances as a humanoid, which would give it 3/4th BAB, but then you later said it has a good BAB, suggesting BAB as a fighter. I'm guessing it's the former, but I'm not really sure.

And for the partial summons, are these treated as separate creatures from the enkarni, just as the avatar is, or are they just extensions of him? The legs are obviously the latter, but with the arms I'm not sure if they allow the enkarni to attack with them, or if they act on their own accord to strike out.

I can't really say how powerful this class is compared to the core classes, but my gut says that it's pretty well balanced. I will definitely be trying this out at some point, so I guess I'll find out. Anyway, good job. It's amazing.

rweird
2012-05-27, 08:44 PM
I personally think it heals to slowly, say you have wisdom 30 at level 20, it heals 10 HP a day, one attack deals more than that much damage, maybe your level + wisdom mod, half your level * wisdom mod? I'm not really sure though I don't think that it is all that good because it is very hard to heal, unless summoned and healed, then. Also, the left arm partial summon should be changed to 'has the same reach as the avatar' and deals 'damage appropriate to a slam attack of a creature of the avatars size (see page 296 0f the monsters manual)', because storm giants shouldn't feel left out. It also should be a slam attack, not a unarmed strike. Breath weapon should be given some sort of limit on times used or a recharge, or mentioned that it is at will if it is.

Out of curiosity, why did you name it the Enkarni?

Empedocles
2012-05-27, 08:48 PM
I personally think it heals to slowly, say you have wisdom 30 at level 20, it heals 10 HP a day, one attack deals more than that much damage, maybe your level + wisdom mod, half your level * wisdom mod? I'm not really sure though I don't think that it is all that good because it is very hard to heal, unless summoned and healed, then. Also, the left arm partial summon should be changed to 'has the same reach as the avatar' and deals 'damage appropriate to a slam attack of a creature of the avatars size (see page 296 0f the monsters manual)', because storm giants shouldn't feel left out. It also should be a slam attack, not a unarmed strike. Breath weapon should be given some sort of limit on times used or a recharge, or mentioned that it is at will if it is.

Out of curiosity, why did you name it the Enkarni?

I'll make those edits in a few.

Enkarni is an adaptation of Incarnate, which would have been the preferred name. Honestly it's kind of a bad name though...

Empedocles
2012-05-27, 08:50 PM
I personally think it heals to slowly, say you have wisdom 30 at level 20, it heals 10 HP a day, one attack deals more than that much damage, maybe your level + wisdom mod, half your level * wisdom mod? I'm not really sure though I don't think that it is all that good because it is very hard to heal, unless summoned and healed, then. Also, the left arm partial summon should be changed to 'has the same reach as the avatar' and deals 'damage appropriate to a slam attack of a creature of the avatars size (see page 296 0f the monsters manual)', because storm giants shouldn't feel left out. It also should be a slam attack, not a unarmed strike. Breath weapon should be given some sort of limit on times used or a recharge, or mentioned that it is at will if it is.

Out of curiosity, why did you name it the Enkarni?

I'll make those edits in a few.

Enkarni is an adaptation of Incarnate, which would have been the preferred name. Honestly it's kind of a bad name though...