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Virdish
2012-04-25, 02:22 PM
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h465/zeedood/wkc-white-knight.jpg

So I see this a lot in the world building sub-forum and I'm gonna steal it because to be honest I need some help making a class for my world setting. Daemon's Seal (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238404). I am trying to make a "Paladin" who is slightly more weapon focused. The idea is that this "Paladin" starts play with a unique weapon that uses a photoelectric core that levels with the "Paladin". The Capstone could be a save or die ability though I don't know if that would be powerful enough. I'll give the basic flavor of the class and a description of the photoelectric core. A big note is that enchantment doesn't work in the world of Daemon's Seal so any "extra" damage is a side effect of the crafting material. For instance a dragon's tooth dagger may do fire damage.

ElectraSteel
Electrasteel is a photoelectric metal discovered by the Lira. It stores solar energy which it can disperse as electric damage. It is possible to gain enough charge to kill a person in a single hit though once this effect is used the stored solar energy is completely used up and the core must recharge for 24 hours.

Alright so I don't know how this would work mechanically but that is the idea behind it.

"Paladin"
The "Paladin" is the martial arm of the Eglesia, exacting the church's will with the cold bite of her ElectraSteel weapon. The site of her armor, engraved with the symbols of her deity, is enough to strike fear into the hearts of normally fearless foes and inspire even the most downtrodden of allies. In battle she is the epitome of holy wrath, laying waste to any and all who oppose the will of the church.

d10
4+int mod skills(No class skill list yet)
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons, she is also proficient with her Electrasteel weapon though not necessarily with others of it's kind. She is proficient with light, medium, and heavy armor as well as all shields (including tower shields)

Design notes
-Goal is tier 3
-Weapon focused though retains spellcasting
-Reduce MAD
-Limit "Dead" levels
-Make a fun and playable class

Virdish
2012-04-25, 02:25 PM
Post saved

Virdish
2012-04-25, 02:26 PM
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Empedocles
2012-04-25, 02:26 PM
A few questions...

Is this still a heavily armored warrior? And do you still want it to have spellcasting? What about other iconic paladin powers? Basically, how much do you want this to differ from the normal paladin (besides in terms of power and MAD).

Virdish
2012-04-25, 02:31 PM
Still aimed to be a heavily armored character and I really like smite. and really most iconic Paladin powers though the special mount may not fit the idea but I really see no problem with it. I do want to maintain spell casting. I love gishes to be honest so anything that can smash you in the face and then turn around and cast inflict at you is always good.

One big thing is I want to loosen up the alignment restrictions to Lawful good all of the way down to Lawful neutral as the tendency of the church to slaughter those that are opposed to it don't hold true to the simple LG restriction.

Edit: Rephrase to be exact LG,NG,CG, and LN would all be approved though maybe not CG maybe just any non chaotic and non evil.

Grod_The_Giant
2012-04-25, 03:40 PM
What exactly do you mean by weapon-focused? Something like taking a standard paladin (fix), throwing on a Weapon of Legacy type deal (maybe in place of the mount), and calling it a day? Maneuvers that can only be used with his special weapon?

Larkas
2012-04-25, 04:03 PM
Hmmmm, anything you want from the Crusader? Aside from the special weapon, what you want is pretty much what ToB offers. Also, have you read CW's Kensai? It might have some mechanics you can use on the special weapon. Lastly, I think you might want to restrict the alignments to the "top-left" corner, that is, LN, LG, NG. From what you're letting us in, it doesn't make much sense for a CG character to qualify for this.

On a side note, you do realize that image depicts a mecha of sorts from White Knight Chronicles, right? :smallbiggrin:

Virdish
2012-04-25, 06:43 PM
I like the zealous surge and it really fits the idea of what I am going for. And the die hard feat is awesome. I'm currently reading through ToB. Never really looked through it before.

Some kind of legacy weapon esque system seems like it should fit well. I think maneuvers would be great too unless that will give them too much power. And no I didn't know who three picture is of. LOL. It just looked awesome. LOL.

Ziegander
2012-04-25, 07:12 PM
I don't think "has an electrasteel weapon" is a good concept to base a class on at all. For many reasons:

1) It absorbs solar energy to power its attacks. This means that in the absence of sunlight it is just an ordinary weapon. It also means that if the player is in sunlight all the time, they can just keep "charging" the weapon for the death-blow.

2) The power of the electrasteel weapon cannot satisfactorily be tied to level-advancement. The power of the weapon should be a function of its design, not of its wielder's competency. An NPC warrior should be just as capable of killing someone with a fully charged electrasteel weapon as any "Paladin" would. Tying the power of an electrasteel weapon to its wielder's faith can work, but it feels forced and contrived.

3) You make mention of its ability to "kill a person in a single hit" and its drawback of needing to "recharge for 24 hours." These are features of the weapon, not the class, and giving these kinds of mechanics to a 1st level character seem odd. Killing Blow 1/day... just doesn't feel right. If it just gains "charges" of electricity damage per round/minute/hour in natural sunlight, remember that 1d4 damage is already enough to "kill a person in a single hit" (Commoners have d4 HD).

4) The monumental failure of the Soulknife class.

5) The monumental failure of the Weapon Focus line of feats.

6) "Has an electrasteel weapon" is far, FAR more narrow a concept than any Soulknife or "weapon master" class, since it allows for all of ONE type of weapon. Sure, you might be able to choose from a Longsword, a Glaive, or a Heavy Crossbow, but all of them are going to have the properties of an electrasteel weapon.

Grod_The_Giant
2012-04-25, 07:29 PM
Crusader is a pretty intense class, by any standard. Tome of Battle is a great book-- I would rate an initiator class as one of the most fun to play in the system. They can dish out some serious damage.

But here, I'll give you an ACF for my paladin fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12150015#post12150015) (though it should work with any of them, should you prefer a different one) that might do you for the classic spell-and-platemail paladin.

Lose: Bless Weapon, Special Mount, Holy Weapon
Gain: Sword of God

Sword of God (Su): A paladin's weapon is a direct manifestation of his link to his deity. At first level, he gains a masterwork weapon of any type he is proficient with. This is henceforth referred to as his Paladin Weapon. In addition to the abilities described below, his paladin weapon becomes the focus for his spells, and he cannot use his smite evil ability with another weapon.

If his weapon is destroyed, he may forge a new one, at a cost of 200 experience points, in addition to the usual materials needed to craft a masterwork weapon.

At 2nd level, a paladin's weapon becomes good-aligned.

At 3rd level, a paladin's weapon gains a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage. This bonus increases by one at 6th level, and every third level thereafter, to a maximum of +5 at 15th level.

At 5th level, a paladin gains the ability to call his weapon to his hands from anywhere on the plane as a free action.

At 8th level, a paladin's weapon gains the holy property.

At 11th level, a paladin's weapon becomes intelligent, with Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of 10. It may communicate with the paladin emphatically, can see and hear, and has two minor powers (see the Intelligent Items section in the DMG or SRD for details).

At 16th level, a paladin's weapon's mental ability scores increase to 14 each, it gains 60 foot blindsense, and one major power.

At 18th level, a paladin's weapon gains the brilliant energy property. However, unlike normal brilliant energy weapons, it will still damage constructs and the undead.

All of these benefits (with the exception of the intelligence) are lost one round after the weapon leaves the paladin's hands, but return immediately when he retrieves it.

Larkas
2012-04-25, 08:07 PM
My good mangiant Grod, your fix for the Paladin is AWESOME!!! It is all the Paladin should be and more! Really, sir, have a virtual cookie for that! :smallsmile:

On your adaptation for what Virdish wants, I would only add Weapon Specialization as a bonus feat at 5th level. Yeah, I know, it doesn't do much, but it is only to maintain symmetry with Mounted Combat :smallwink:


And no I didn't know who three picture is of. LOL. It just looked awesome. LOL.

It is a nice game system-wise, but story-wise it is very, very weak. The multiplayer features are where it really shines, though. Anyways, when I saw the image, I was wondering if you were planning for a Paladin that rode inside a Holy Golem or something :smallbiggrin: On that specific knight (http://whiteknightchronicles.neoseeker.com/wiki/White_Knight). It's summoning phrase is quite reminiscing of what a paladin would say:

"O Wizel, white warrior, wielder of the ancient sword, grant me your power. Verto!"

I digress... But now I want a Paladin variant that has a holy armor/rides in a holy golem :smallbiggrin:

Grod_The_Giant
2012-04-25, 08:16 PM
My good mangiant Grod, your fix for the Paladin is AWESOME!!! It is all the Paladin should be and more! Really, sir, have a virtual cookie for that! :smallsmile:
Thank you :smallredface:


I digress... But now I want a Paladin variant that has a holy armor/rides in a holy golem :smallbiggrin:
Maybe some kind of paladin-artificer theurge?

Larkas
2012-04-25, 08:31 PM
Maybe some kind of paladin-artificer theurge?

Hmmmmm... That just might work! Any PrC that might already accomplish this? I was thinking more something along the lines of a Paladin/PF Summoner theurge, but that would need a construct Eidolon, so your idea is way better :smalltongue: ...Damn, I don't have the time to brew this, but now my head will keep bubbling... DAMN YOU, GROD! *shakes fist* :smallbiggrin:

Virdish
2012-04-25, 08:45 PM
I would normally agree with your assertion as to the class being focused around a single weapon being completely flawed however that's not what I was going for. Yes I want the paladin to be highly concerned with hits weapon but overall I still intend it to be a paladin. With the acf all he is really losing is a but of versatility and his special mount. Which by the way I love your paladin fix gross and the acf is awesome. I'll probably add specialization at fifth level as suggested. Thank you for all the help.

Empedocles
2012-04-25, 08:52 PM
I would normally agree with your assertion as to the class being focused around a single weapon being completely flawed however that's not what I was going for. Yes I want the paladin to be highly concerned with hits weapon but overall I still intend it to be a paladin. With the acf all he is really losing is a but of versatility and his special mount. Which by the way I love your paladin fix gross and the acf is awesome. I'll probably add specialization at fifth level as suggested. Thank you for all the help.

Emphasis mine.

Can the paladin afford to lose versatility? It's basically a melee class and non-initiator melee fighters aren't really known for their versatility...

Kane0
2012-04-25, 08:52 PM
I support the motion for a Paladin with a construct mount.

I also second the motion of "Grod's Paladin fix is awesome".

Thats all from me really. Oh, if you are making a new class for your Paladin-esque warrior Virdish, make sure you change the spellcasting to charisma based. It's a very helpful little change.

Grod_The_Giant
2012-04-25, 09:08 PM
Emphasis mine.

Can the paladin afford to lose versatility? It's basically a melee class and non-initiator melee fighters aren't really known for their versatility...

Take a look at the fix. Aside from the mount, the only abilities he "loses" are folded back into the ACF, applying only to his special weapon.

Also, thanks for the love, guys. You're making me blush :smallredface:

Empedocles
2012-04-25, 09:19 PM
Oh not the ACF. It's brilliant. I meant the paladin/this class in general. Virdish made it sound like this new paladin-esque class was going to lose versatility.

Larkas
2012-04-25, 09:43 PM
Well, since Virdish's request has been fulfilled, why don't we get together to create the mecha-riding Paladin? :smallbiggrin:

I was thinking of a PrC, with entry requirements along the following:

Requirements: Craft Construct feat, ability to cast 3rd level infusions, smite evil as a class feature.

A basic start, but it is a start. :smallcool:

Empedocles
2012-04-25, 09:50 PM
Well, since Virdish's request has been fulfilled, why don't we get together to create the mecha-riding Paladin? :smallbiggrin:

I was thinking of a PrC, with entry requirements along the following:

Requirements: Craft Construct feat, ability to cast 3rd level infusions, smite evil as a class feature.

A basic start, but it is a start. :smallcool:

I'd like to go the other direction and introduce this as a class feature/ACF that the paladin develops over levels. Like a hugely toned down, mechanical eidolon from the PF summoner class.

And should he be able to ride in his robot thingy? Or just on it?

Grod_The_Giant
2012-04-25, 10:03 PM
I'd like to go the other direction and introduce this as a class feature/ACF that the paladin develops over levels. Like a hugely toned down, mechanical eidolon from the PF summoner class.

And should he be able to ride in his robot thingy? Or just on it?

Simplest way would be to replace the special mount, probably.

Empedocles
2012-04-25, 10:09 PM
Simplest way would be to replace the special mount, probably.

Yeah, although I'm thinking this would be a fair bit stronger then the mount.

Empedocles
2012-04-25, 10:11 PM
Simplest way would be to replace the special mount, probably.

Yeah, although I'm thinking this would be a fair bit stronger then the mount.

Larkas
2012-04-25, 10:41 PM
I'd like to go the other direction and introduce this as a class feature/ACF that the paladin develops over levels. Like a hugely toned down, mechanical eidolon from the PF summoner class.

And should he be able to ride in his robot thingy? Or just on it?

Like I said before, I originally thought of this as something like the summoner Eidolon :smallsmile:

The idea is for him to ride in it, but maybe it can also work something like a magical armor in cramped spaces, maybe with a "golem" form too (think medium-sized Shield Guardian).


Simplest way would be to replace the special mount, probably.

I think so too. Just now I was thinking of something like forgoing the mount to get a celestial spirit to inhabit the construct.

On balancing issues, I don't really mind this ACF bumping the Paladin power level a bit. It might pay to replace Smite Evil too, just in case. Also, doing so would give us more liberty bumping the power level and not breaking Grod's fix, for example :smallsmile: Furthermore, the ACF should have a feat tax as an entry requirement (Craft Construct), so that balances things out a little.

Empedocles
2012-04-25, 10:53 PM
Like I said before, I originally thought of this as something like the summoner Eidolon :smallsmile:

The idea is for him to ride in it, but maybe it can also work something like a magical armor in cramped spaces, maybe with a "golem" form too (think medium-sized Shield Guardian).



I think so too. Just now I was thinking of something like forgoing the mount to get a celestial spirit to inhabit the construct.

On balancing issues, I don't really mind this ACF bumping the Paladin power level a bit. It might pay to replace Smite Evil too, just in case. Also, doing so would give us more liberty bumping the power level and not breaking Grod's fix, for example :smallsmile: Furthermore, the ACF should have a feat tax as an entry requirement (Craft Construct), so that balances things out a little.

I like the celestial spirit and armor/golem/mecha ideas. Especially the celestial spirit. Keeps it paladiny :smallwink:

I'm skeptical getting rid of smite evil. It's an iconic abiltiy, and I'd rather get rid of the spells and then pump up the armor ability to make it really strong (strong enough to replace the loss of spells).

Craft Construct doesn't really work as a prerequisite since it has prerequisites, and I think this would be a 1st level ACF that increases steadily in power.

Larkas
2012-04-25, 11:02 PM
I like the celestial spirit and armor/golem/mecha ideas. Especially the celestial spirit. Keeps it paladiny :smallwink:

I'm skeptical getting rid of smite evil. It's an iconic abiltiy, and I'd rather get rid of the spells and then pump up the armor ability to make it really strong (strong enough to replace the loss of spells).

Craft Construct doesn't really work as a prerequisite since it has prerequisites, and I think this would be a 1st level ACF that increases steadily in power.

Ouch, totally missed the prereqs...

I'm actually a little wary of getting rid of the spells. It's also an iconic ability, though not as iconic as smite evil, of course. I was also thinking of adding the "repair" infusions as paladins spells with this ACF (Repair Light Damage, Repair Medium Damage, Repair Serious Damage, maybe Total Repair; all would only be usable on the mecha, and you would lose Heal Mount, of course). What do you think?

Empedocles
2012-04-25, 11:07 PM
Ouch, totally missed the prereqs...

I'm actually a little wary of getting rid of the spells. It's also an iconic ability, though not as iconic as smite evil, of course. I was also thinking of adding the "repair" infusions as paladins spells with this ACF (Repair Light Damage, Repair Medium Damage, Repair Serious Damage, maybe Total Repair; all would only be usable on the mecha, and you would lose Heal Mount, of course). What do you think?

I really like that idea! Replacing the more versatile spells with some infusions sounds flavorful and balancing to me.

the class so far...
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8652839/images/1268960433504.jpg

Larkas
2012-04-25, 11:11 PM
Another thought: what if he lost Turn Undead?


the class so far...
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8652839/images/1268960433504.jpg

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, pretty much! :smallbiggrin:

Empedocles
2012-04-25, 11:14 PM
Another thought: what if he lost Turn Undead?

That's a neat thought, although at this point he may be losing more then he's gaining. It all depends on how well we can develop the mech ability and how versatile we can make it...

Big thing with losing turn undead is divine feats (IMO)...but thematically losing it does feel right. Let's tentatively go with that for now...

Ziegander
2012-04-26, 02:39 AM
Replace Turn Undead with Turn Constructs and explicitly state that Turn Constructs can be used to power divine feats?

Ziegander
2012-04-26, 03:06 AM
Replace Turn Undead with Turn Constructs and explicitly state that Turn Constructs can be used to power divine feats?

Empedocles
2012-04-26, 07:32 AM
Replace Turn Undead with Turn Constructs and explicitly state that Turn Constructs can be used to power divine feats?

That's definitely a thought, although turning constructs is certainly an odd idea.

Larkas
2012-04-26, 09:16 AM
Not to mention the idea is having a mecha, not turning other mechas :smallbiggrin: But it is an idea anyways :smallsmile:

Virdish
2012-04-26, 09:56 AM
Though if you think about it from a standpoint of the class would understand how a Mecha work and thus knows how to make them run away essentially it would work.

Larkas
2012-04-26, 10:32 AM
Hmmmm, you have a point there. Weird, though, constructs are generally... Ehm... More mindless than zombies? :smallbiggrin:

Here is what I came up with so far, tell me what you think and don't forget this is a collaborative project, so you can suggest changes :smallsmile: Comments are in red, and things to do are between brackets in green.

Level: 4th. This is when you would gain Turn Undead.
Special Requirement: A set of full plate armor of at least masterwork quality. It doesn't make much sense if it is anything but full plate when it goes golem-mode, unfortunately =/
Replaces: This benefit replaces the special mount and the turn undead class features. This is tentative, but I think they are the best things to replace.
Benefits: Your connection to the heavenly realms allows you to call on a celestial spirit to inhabit your armor, imbuing it with its power. The full plate then becomes a magic armor (if it wasn't already) and gains an enhancement bonus and/or special abilities. Furthermore, the armor becomes an intelligent item of Lawful Good alignment and (mental attributes, ego, communication mode).
At 4th level, and every four levels thereafter, the armor gains a +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. This bonus can be exchanged for any suitable armor special ability at the Paladin's discretion, though the spirit will refuse to imbue the armor with any ability that goes against its ethos. These bonuses stack with any bonuses the armor might have had before the spirit came to inhabit it. For example, if a 12th level Paladin had a +1 full plate armor before the spirit came to inhabit it, this armor is now a +4 full plate armor, or maybe a +1 full plate armor of invulnerability.
(Explain how to attune the spirit to the armor, how to transfer the spirit to a new armor and what happens when the armor is destroyed)
(Explain how and when the armor can be animated to work like a medium construct)
(Explain when you would gain Repair X Damage, and how that could be used to fix the armor)
(Explain when the armor can grow to go mecha; number of rounds = Level+Cha Modifier, or something like the barbarian rage, or something more like turn undead?)

Ziegander
2012-04-26, 03:03 PM
Not to mention the idea is having a mecha, not turning other mechas :smallbiggrin: But it is an idea anyways :smallsmile:


Though if you think about it from a standpoint of the class would understand how a Mecha work and thus knows how to make them run away essentially it would work.

Right, havng a mecha means understanding how they work, and how to control them. It makes a lot of sense, though, actually, Rebuke Constructs (regardless of alignment) actually makes even more sense. Or maybe they can Turn OR Rebuke Constructs, regardless of alignment, choosable each time they use the ability.

Has anyone here seen Garryl's Metroid as Incarnum project? If you replace the Paladin's Mount with a special suit of Powered Armor, and then cut Turn Undead for Turn/Rebuke Constructs and cut the spellcasting and replace THAT with Metroid as Incarnum stuff with the fluff that it is tied to the golem armor, THEN I think you might have something very interesting.

Virdish
2012-04-26, 04:12 PM
I like the idea of a magically mechanized suit like zeighander was talking about.

dspeyer
2012-04-27, 12:33 AM
Now look what you've done: you've inspired me (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13138559#post13138559). And it wasn't even to the class you wanted, so I posted it in a separate thread.

Larkas
2012-04-27, 07:47 AM
HAHAHAHA, hey, glad it was of some use :smallbiggrin:

Virdish
2012-04-27, 03:50 PM
So I have a couple ideas.

In regards to how the attunement happens the paladin should suit in prayer with the armor for some time (one day maybe). This would attune the spirit to the armor.

Another idea I had is that a paladin should be able to summon his armor and have it materialize on him kinda like the power ranger armor kind of flowed over them till it was complete.

Another idea call from the other post. Perhaps if the paladin falls unconscious the armor will (at later levels) can continue to fight in his stead. It wouldn't have access to his paladin abilities except maybe smite evil since I am assuming that the spirit would be that.of a saint or other pure spirit.

My last idea regards the paladin's type while in the armor. In essence the paladin would be a.construct on the outside, and in so being should theoretically get the same type of immunity to crits and sneak attacks that a construct does. This would of course be negated by a character with a feat that allows him to crit and sneak attack a construct.

So it would look something like this written up.

Heavenly construct: When a Paladin dons her construct armor she gains immunity to sneak attacks and criticals as her body is entirely encased in a living armor which presents no openings the Paladins body. At (blank) level the Paladin has become even more in tune with the living armor she is encased in, gaining resistance to slashing and piercing damage equal to (not sure)

Larkas
2012-04-27, 04:49 PM
So I have a couple ideas.

In regards to how the attunement happens the paladin should suit in prayer with the armor for some time (one day maybe). This would attune the spirit to the armor.

Another idea I had is that a paladin should be able to summon his armor and have it materialize on him kinda like the power ranger armor kind of flowed over them till it was complete.

Kinda like Saint Seiya too, huh? Yeah, I was thinking of something along those lines too, great idea :smallsmile:


Another idea call from the other post. Perhaps if the paladin falls unconscious the armor will (at later levels) can continue to fight in his stead. It wouldn't have access to his paladin abilities except maybe smite evil since I am assuming that the spirit would be that.of a saint or other pure spirit.

I thought of something like that too, but I think that "fighting" is a little too much. Maybe "bringing the paladin somewhere safe" is better :smallsmile:


My last idea regards the paladin's type while in the armor. In essence the paladin would be a.construct on the outside, and in so being should theoretically get the same type of immunity to crits and sneak attacks that a construct does. This would of course be negated by a character with a feat that allows him to crit and sneak attack a construct.

So it would look something like this written up.

Heavenly construct: When a Paladin dons her construct armor she gains immunity to sneak attacks and criticals as her body is entirely encased in a living armor which presents no openings the Paladins body. At (blank) level the Paladin has become even more in tune with the living armor she is encased in, gaining resistance to slashing and piercing damage equal to (not sure)

I would go even further. Maybe when in mecha form, the armor would have a separate HP pool, and if the paladin forces his hand, he can end the fight with his armor destroyed. Maybe praying and mending could solve that easily, but, in that one fight, the character is pretty much screwed.

Virdish
2012-04-28, 03:20 PM
With two health pools I worry about balance a little. And then you get into thinking about effects that may not be appropriate to target the armour. It would have to be a lower HP. Perhaps 1/2 hd or 1/4 hd. Though then there would be a high chance that the.armor would break in almost every bigger fight. Maybe 3/4 hd would work but then that is giving a HUGE boost to the paladin

Larkas
2012-04-28, 06:07 PM
Hmmmm... What if all the damage done to the armor is transferred as subdual/non-lethal damage to the Paladin?

Virdish
2012-04-28, 06:30 PM
I actually like that idea. So full HD for the suit and it is destroyed at 0 leaving the Paladin still able to fight but with no armor?

Larkas
2012-04-28, 06:45 PM
Pretty much, but he'd be staggered or unconscious. Look here: Injury and Death (look for "Nonlethal Damage") (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm)

I think it is fitting, anyways. He used up all his strength and is very tired. Just use 1 point of Lay on Hands and he's back in action, though still armorless.

Ziegander
2012-04-28, 08:55 PM
I'm going to try and combine the flavor of a Paladin with the mechanics of Garryl's Metroid as Incarnum (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1423), with some of the concepts of Iron Man's fully biometrically integrated, fluid armors, shake liberally, pour over ice cubes, and see how it turns out.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_snpORwpA-M/ThIdg5dL3sI/AAAAAAAAC90/lRae3fMa4ng/s640/White-Knight-Chronicles-2-600x250.jpeg

Alignment: Lawful Good
Hit Die: 1d10

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Radiant Armor|
Modules|
Energy|
Hard-Points

1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Radiant Core, Smite Evil (+1d6), Zealous Sensors|
--|
--|
--|
--

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Divine Grace, Radiant Wellspring|
--|
--|
--|
--

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Aura of Resolve, Smite Evil (+1d6, -1)|
--|
--|
--|
--

4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Radiant Armor, Reprogram Constructs|
+6|
2|
2|
--

5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Hard-Points (Feet, Hands, Helmet), Smite Evil (+2d6, -1)|
+6|
3|
3|
1

6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+5||
+7|
4|
4|
1

7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+5|Smite Evil (+2d6, -2)|
+7|
4|
5|
1

8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+6||
+7|
5|
6|
1

9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+6|Smite Evil (+3d6, -2)|
+8|
5|
7|
2

10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+7|Hard-Points (Arms, Back, Shielding)|
+8|
5|
8|
2

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+7|Smite Evil (+3d6, -3)|
+8|
6|
9|
2

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+8||
+9|
6|
10|
2

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+8|Smite Evil (+4d6, -3)|
+9|
6|
11|
3

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+9||
+9|
7|
12|
3

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+9|Hard-Points (Visor, Support), Smite Evil (+4d6, -4)|
+10|
7|
13|
3

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+10||
+10|
7|
14|
3

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Smite Evil (+5d6, -4)|
+10|
8|
15|
4

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11||
+11|
8|
16|
4

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Smite Evil (+5d6, -5)|
+11|
8|
17|
4

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Hard-Points (Core)|
+11|
9|
18|
4
[/table]

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier): Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Arcane), Knowledge (Engineering), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (The Planes), Listen, Profession, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim, and Use Magic Device.

Proficiencies: A Paladin is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and is proficient with all armor and shields.

Radiant Core (Su): A Paladin's internal hardware is infused with positive energy, giving him an Aura of Good equivalent to that of a Good Cleric.

Smite Evil (Su): Whenever a Paladin attacks an Evil creature he deals 1d6 additional damage. This additional damage increases by 1d6 for every four Paladin levels he has beyond the 1st.

Starting at 3rd level, Evil creatures who are Hostile to the Paladin or his allies suffer a -1 penalty to armor class, to attack rolls, and to saving throws whenever they are threatened by the Paladin. This penalty increases by 1 for every four Paladin levels he has beyond his 3rd.

Zealous Sensors (Su): A Paladin is aware of the presence of evil creatures at all times, benefiting from a constant Detect Evil effect, as the spell except that he only detects creatures whose alignment entries specify that the creature is "Always Evil," and that the area is a 60ft emanation centered on the Paladin.

Divine Grace (Su): A Paladin of 2nd level and higher adds his Charisma modifier to all saving throws.

Radiant Wellspring (Su): Starting at 2nd level, a Paladin's positively charged core overflows with divine power that can regenerate damage dealt to him and can be used to heal others. He has a pool of healing points equal to his class level his Charisma bonus. When he is dealt damage, if he has points of healing left in his pool, then he may subtract any number of them rather than take an equal amount of damage.

As a standard action, a Paladin may sacrifice any number of points of healing from his Radiant Wellspring to cure an equal amount of hit point damage from a touched creature. Being positive energy, healing from a Paladin's Radiant Wellspring has no effect on Constructs and can be used damage Undead.

A Paladin with points of healing remaining in his Radiant Wellspring that is brought to fewer than 0 hit points automatically stabilizes.

A Paladin that runs his Radiant Wellspring dry can replenish his healing points with an extended rest (8 hours of sleep for most creatures).

Aura of Resolve (Su): A Paladin of 3rd level and higher is immune to Fear and Compulsion effects. Any allies within 15ft of the Paladin add the Paladin's Charisma modifier to saving throws against those effects.

Reprogram Constructs (Su): A 4th level Paladin may Turn or Rebuke Constructs as a Cleric Turns or Rebukes Undead, except that his alignment has nothing to do with whether he Turns them or Rebukes them. He may choose which he wishes to apply with each use of this ability.

A Paladin may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier, and he need not present a holy symbol or any similar equipment to do so.

Reprogram Constructs may be used in place of Turn/Rebuke Undead for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites of classes, feats, items, etc; and for the purposes of activating the abilities of classes, feats, items, etc.

Radiant Armor (Su): At 4th level, the integration of the Paladin's internal hardware with the flow of positive energy has become complete, allowing him to form Radiant Armor over him comprised of solid positive energy. This process is mostly automated (and in some cases, fully automated) by the Paladin's Radiant Core. Radiant Armor is considered Heavy Armor but it does not restrict movement, has an unlimited Max Dex Bonus, and no armor check penalty. The armor is made to support itself, and does not count towards your encumbrance, although it does weigh 75 lb.

Forming Radiant Armor takes 1 whole round to complete, but takes no actions from the Paladin; however, the process must begin on the Paladin's turn. When fully formed, a Paladin's Radiant Armor grants him an Armor Bonus to AC equal to the value given in the table above. If a Paladin goes unconscious and his Radiant Armor is not formed it will automatically begin to form itself over him on the Paladin's next turn.

The Radiant Armor can accept a variety of modules (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1437.0) which the Paladin chooses from the Paladin Module list (given below). Each time the Paladin forms his Radiant Armor (including when he is unconscious) he chooses a number of modules from his list, based on his class level, and forms them along with the armor. These modules grant him special attacks, defenses, and utilities, and are powered by Energy.

Un-forming the Radiant Armor also requires no actions from the Paladin, but also takes 1 round to complete and must begin on the Paladin's turn. A Paladin may form his Radiant Armor, choosing a specific array of modules, un-form it later, then re-form it and choose a whole new array of modules to form with it.

A Paladin can activate only a certain number of modules at once. His base concurrent allotment is given in the table above. The maximum number of modules that he can have active from Paladin levels is equal to his Constitution score minus 10, or the number on the table, whichever is lower.

At 4th level, a Paladin gains access to his Radiant Armor's pool of Energy, which can be invested into formed modules to increase their effects. If he already has a pool of energy, he combines the two to determine his total amount of energy available. His Paladin level determines the maximum amount of energy that can be assigned to any given module at one time, as indicated below.


Table: Energy Capacity by Level
Paladin Maximum Energy
Level per Module
0-5 1
6-10 2
11-15 3
16-20 4
21+ Level/5, rounded up

As a swift action, a Paladin may reallocate energy investments amongst his formed modules once each round.

Paladin Module List

Annihilator Beam, Alt-Form, Astral Shift, Cryo Core, Dark Visor, Dimensional Shift, Disruption Beam, Dual Weapon, Echo Visor, Energy Tank, Essence Balancing, Exploration, Flare Beam, Grapple Lasso, Gravity Booster, Hammer Beam, Ice Beam, Infantry Teleportation, Kinetic Accelerator, Light Beam, Luminoth Protection, Missile Launcher, Order Enforcement, Plasma Beam, Power Beam, Radar, Resonance Detonator, Rezbit Control, Riot Shield, Scan Visor, Space Jump, Spazer Beam, Speed Booster, Terranean Resonator, Thermal Lance, Thermal Visor, Varia, Wave Beam, and X-Ray Scope.


Hard-Points (Su): Beginning at 5th level, a Paladin can attach formed modules to the hard-points that his Radiant Armor has available. He cannot attach modules to hard-points with integrated equipment (for example, if the Paladin has equipment occupying his Feet slot, he cannot attach a formed module to his Radiant Armor's Feet Hard-Point).

The number of hard-point attachments that a Paladin can have active at any one time depends on his class level (see the Hard-point Attachments column in the table above). At 5th level, he can attach modules to the Feet, Hands, and Helmet hard-points. At 10th level, he can attach modules to the Arms, Back, and Shielding hard-points. At 15th level, he can attach modules to the Visor and Support hard-points. At 20th level, he can attach modules to the Core hard-point.
2
So, that looks pretty nice, actually. A large list of modules that can be re-formed on the fly, armor made of pure lifeforce, and powerful early class features. It could use features to fill out the dead levels though.

Virdish
2012-04-28, 09:31 PM
I really need to study up more on rules. I did far too much small homebrew roleplaying before I made the switch to more formal games. lol. I didn't even realize how non-lethal damage worked. However yeah it sounds effective. I really like the idea of it.

Zeigander. I like what you have there though as written most people would assume it is a construct only class though I get that you were going for a humanoid with a magical version of Iron Man's core. I think at later levels we may throw in a size change while in the suit. One thing though is that from what I assumed we were looking at an intelligent suit. Your mechanics can be easily changed and tweaked to accomplish this though but other then that I really like your Iron Paladin..... lol

Larkas
2012-04-29, 08:45 AM
Indeed! Even though it is not exactly what we were going for, it turned out VERY nicely! Virdish has a point, though it appears it was made mainly for constructs; though it would be AWESOME playing a Warforged paladin with this, short of a setting full of cybernetics that is pretty much the only race that would work, flavor-wise, with this :smallfrown: Just to make it clear, though, I REALLY like what you did there :smallsmile:

Ziegander
2012-04-29, 11:41 AM
Indeed! Even though it is not exactly what we were going for, it turned out VERY nicely! Virdish has a point, though it appears it was made mainly for constructs; though it would be AWESOME playing a Warforged paladin with this, short of a setting full of cybernetics that is pretty much the only race that would work, flavor-wise, with this :smallfrown: Just to make it clear, though, I REALLY like what you did there :smallsmile:

Yeah, if I were doing a full fluff write-up, it would include information about a setting filled with cybernetics, and an organization (or a few) known as the "Paladins" that combine law enforcement skill and systems with positive energy empowerment.

Virdish
2012-04-29, 01:12 PM
So back to what we we're originally looking at let me know how this sounds as the chassis of the armor

Divine construct; at (5th) level the paladin begins a ritual to summon a spirit from the upper planes. This ritual takes 24 hours and must be committed on hallowed ground such as a church devoted to a good deity or under the effect of a hallow or similar spell. To begin this ritual the paladin must have a set of masterwork full plate for the spirit to inhabit. When completed the armor becomes sentient with mental scores of 10 wis and int (too much?). Once inhabited the armor returns to it's original plane until called to the mortal plane by the paladin. Calling the armor is a move equivalent action. It appears over the paladin's body.

When in the armor the paladin is treated as a construct. It gains immunity to critical and sneak attacks. It does not however become immune to mind altering effects.

The paladin's new armor takes damage for the paladin when he is wearing it though damage taken is transferred to the paladin as nonlethal damage. When the non lethal damage dealt the the paladin equals his total HP the armor disappears and returns to it's plane leavimg the paladin unconscious. The paladin is considered stable and may make a fortitude save (DC 25) to wake himself up however he is considered fatigued even on a successful save regardless of effects that would normally render him immune to fatigue.

Larkas
2012-04-29, 09:40 PM
@Ziegander: ... That organization would be AWESOME! :smalleek: Although it would make more sense in a cyberpunk or even steampunk setting (Eberron haunts us once more! :smalltongue: ), it would be nice even in regular, high fantasy scenarios! These Paladins would stand out, as Paladins always do, but in a stranger, in a good way, fashion!


So back to what we we're originally looking at let me know how this sounds as the chassis of the armor

Divine construct; at (5th) level the paladin begins a ritual to summon a spirit from the upper planes. This ritual takes 24 hours and must be committed on hallowed ground such as a church devoted to a good deity or under the effect of a hallow or similar spell. To begin this ritual the paladin must have a set of masterwork full plate for the spirit to inhabit. When completed the armor becomes sentient with mental scores of 10 wis and int (too much?). Once inhabited the armor returns to it's original plane until called to the mortal plane by the paladin. Calling the armor is a move equivalent action. It appears over the paladin's body.

When in the armor the paladin is treated as a construct. It gains immunity to critical and sneak attacks. It does not however become immune to mind altering effects.

The paladin's new armor takes damage for the paladin when he is wearing it though damage taken is transferred to the paladin as nonlethal damage. When the non lethal damage dealt the the paladin equals his total HP the armor disappears and returns to it's plane leavimg the paladin unconscious. The paladin is considered stable and may make a fortitude save (DC 25) to wake himself up however he is considered fatigued even on a successful save regardless of effects that would normally render him immune to fatigue.

Sounds mostly right. Minor nitpicks:

"mind altering" should be "mind affecting";

"The paladin is considered stable" is unnecessary: it is not "real damage", as it were, he is only unconscious, not dying.

Also, "Once inhabited the armor returns to it's original plane until called" is a little strange: the armor never were from that upper plane, only the spirit was. Maybe something like "The spirit, along with the armor it now inhabits, returns to its original plane until called" would be better?

On the subject, IIRC, intelligent items also have a Cha score. Maybe all the mental scores could follow the same progression as Int does for regular mounts, +1?

Virdish
2012-04-29, 09:50 PM
I'm glad that all you had were minor nitpicks lol. Following the normal mount progression for mental stats seems like a good idea. Do we want to give them lesser abilities associated with intelligent armor and weapons?

Edit: I like your wording on the returning to it's former plane better then mine as like you said it makes much more sense then what I had.