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View Full Version : Finally! Another Monk Revision! [D&D 3.5]



Ziegander
2012-04-26, 05:48 PM
The Monk

http://img3.mmo.mmo4arab.com/news/2011/01/31/co/co/3.jpg

Alignment: Any Lawful
Hit Die: 1d8


{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Enhancement|
Unarmed Damage

1st|+0|+2|+2|+2|Ki Power, Legend Lore, Masterwork Body, Skirmish (+1d6)|
+0|
1d6

2nd|+1|+3|+3|+3|Evasion, Stunning Fist|
+0|
1d6

3rd|+2|+3|+3|+3|Fast Movement +10ft, Skirmish (+1d6, +1AC)|
+1|
1d6

4th|+3|+4|+4|+4|Acrobatics +10, Purity of Body|
+1|
1d8

5th|+3|+4|+4|+4|Knowledge Devotion, Skirmish (+2d6, +1AC)|
+1|
1d8

6th|+4|+5|+5|+5|Flawless Stride, Ki Dodge (20%)|
+1|
1d8

7th|+5|+5|+5|+5|Fast Movement +20ft, Skirmish (+2d6, +2AC)|
+2|
1d8

8th|+6/+1|+6|+6|+6|Acrobatics +20, Flurry of Blows|
+2|
1d10

9th|+6/+1|+6|+6|+6|Skirmish (+3d6, +2AC)|
+2|
1d10

10th|+7/+2|+7|+7|+7|Blindsense 30ft, Ghost Strike|
+2|
1d10

11th|+8/+3|+7|+7|+7|Fast Movement +30ft, Skirmish (+3d6, +3AC)|
+3|
1d10

12th|+9/+4|+8|+8|+8|Acrobatics +30, Leaf on the Wind|
+3|
2d6

13th|+9/+4|+8|+8|+8|Skirmish (+4d6, +3AC)|
+3|
2d6

14th|+10/+5|+9|+9|+9|Abundant Step, Blindsense 60ft|
+3|
2d6

15th|+11/+6/+1|+9|+9|+9|Fast Movement +40ft, Skirmish (+4d6, +4AC)|
+4|
2d6

16th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+10|Acrobatics +40, Ki Dodge (50%)|
+4|
2d8

17th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+10|Skirmish (+5d6, +4AC)|
+4|
2d8

18th|+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+11|Blindsight 30ft, Empty Body|
+4|
2d8

19th|+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+11|Fast Movement +50ft, Skirmish (+5d6, +5AC)|
+5|
2d8

20th|+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+12|Acrobatics +50, Freedom, Perfect Self|
+5|
2d10
[/table]

Class Skills (6 + Int modifier): Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Proficiencies: A Monk is proficient with all simple weapons, but is not proficient with any armors or shields.

Ki Power (Su): A Monk can channel his ki to manifest special abilities that can enhance his attacks, his defenses, or his mobility, depending on his level. He can use his ki powers a number of times per day equal to his class level + his Wisdom modifier (to a minimum of 1 use per day; only add a Wisdom modifier if it is positive).

As long as a Monk has at least 1 use of ki power per day remaining he adds his Wisdom modifier to Initiative checks (in addition to his Dexterity modifier; again, only add this Wisdom modifier if positive).

A Monk's ki powers are Stunning Fist, Ki Dodge, Ghost Strike, Abundant Step, and Empty Body.

Legend Lore (Ex): This ability functions similarly to a Bard's Bardic Knowledge ability, except that the Monk's check has a bonus equal to his class level + his Wisdom modifier and he acquires information on events, creatures, items, and locations of great historical significance. Like a Bard, the Monk gets a +2 synergy bonus to this check if he has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (History).

Masterwork Body (Ex): A Monk's very body is considered both a masterwork armor and a masterwork weapon. He may enchant it separately as both an armor and a weapon, and spells or abilities that effect armor or weapons may effect the Monk's body, either as armor or as a weapon as the effect applies, if he so chooses. This grants him an armor bonus to AC equal to his Constitution modifier while he wears no armor and he is always considered armed with his Unarmed Strike as outlined below.

Unarmed Strike
A Monk begins play with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and retains its benefits even if he doesn't meet the prerequisites. Furthermore, his Unarmed Strike deals damage as given in the table above. Because of the Monk's Masterwork Body feature, his Unarmed Strikes gain a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls.

A Monk may make attacks with Unarmed Strike even with both of his hands full, and there is no such thing as an off-hand Unarmed Strike for the Monk allowing him to add his full strength bonus to all Unarmed Strike attacks. Normally his Unarmed Strike deals lethal damage but he may freely choose to deal nonlethal damage at no penalty.

A Monk's Unarmed Strike is considered both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purposes of spells or effects that interact with weapons. His Unarmed Strike is interchangeably considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, and a two-weapon in the most favorable combination whenever it would be beneficial to be treated as such.

Skirmish (Ex): As Scout, except that when making melee or thrown weapon attacks it is not precision damage, it applies to any creature regardless of anatomy, immunity, or fortification (making ranged Skirmish attacks; however, is precision damage as normal). The normal bonus a Scout would gain to AC when moving at least 10ft in a round also applies to a Monk's melee attack rolls.

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level or higher if a Monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a Monk is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Monk does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Stunning Fist (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, by spending a daily use of Ki Power, a Monk may empower any unarmed strike as if using the Stunning Fist feat (without needing to meet that feat's prerequisites). He must choose to do so before rolling the attack roll, but he may use this ability as a free action, even if it isn't his turn. Unlike the feat, a Monk can use this ability any number of times per round as long as he has uses of Ki Power to spend.

A Monk with this ability is treated in all respects as though he had the Stunning Fist feat and meets the prerequisites of classes, feats, items, etc accordingly.

Enhancement Bonus (Su): Starting at 3rd level a Monk's Masterwork Body has a +1 enhancement bonus and is considered both a magic armor and a magic weapon. At every four levels after 3rd the enhancement bonus of a Monk's body increases by +1.

Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a Monk's movement speed (for all types of movement) increases by 10ft. This bonus to speed increases by another 10ft every four levels hereafter.

Acrobatics (Ex): Starting at 4th level a Monk is always considered to have a running start for Jump checks, is not limited by his height to determine his jumping distance, and halves his DCs for High Jumps.

Furthermore, he gains a +10 enhancement bonus to all Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks per four Monk levels (+10 at 4th level, +20 at 8th level, +30 at 12th level, on so on).

Purity of Body (Su): A Monk of 4th level and higher is immune to all diseases and poisons (even magical ones).

Knowledge Devotion: A 5th-level Monk gets Knowledge Devotion as a bonus feat regardless of whether or not he meets the prerequisites.

The Monk's uses of his Legend Lore ability to acquire information on historically significant creatures count effectively toward gaining the bonuses granted by his Knowledge Devotion feat against those creatures.

Flawless Stride (Ex): Starting at 6th level, a Monk can move through any sort of terrain that slows movement at his normal speed and without suffering any other impairment. He avoids non-magical bludgeoning, piercing or slashing damage from terrain, but does not avoid energy damage or magical damage.

This ability does not let him move more quickly through terrain that requires a Climb or Swim check to navigate, nor can he move more quickly through terrain that has been magically manipulated to impede motion, damage him, or impair him in some other way.

A Monk loses this benefit when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

Ki Dodge (Su): At 6th level and higher, a Monk can spend one daily use of his Ki Power to cause an attack against him to miss when it might otherwise hit. When a Monk activates this ability, his outline shifts and wavers, granting him concealment (20% miss chance) against a single attack or targeted spell/effect. Using this ability is an immediate action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

At 16th level, a Monk's Ki Dodge ability grants total concealment (50% miss chance) against an attack or targeted spell/effect.

See Invisibility has no effect on concealment granted by the Ki Dodge ability, but true seeing negates the miss chance. This concealment does not stack with that caused by other effects that grant concealment or by spells such as blur or displacement.

Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 8th level, a Monk can make a full attack as a standard action, or at any time he would otherwise be entitled to a single attack. Whenever he does, all attacks he makes during that full attack suffer a -2 penalty to attack rolls. Other attacks he makes in the round do not suffer this penalty unless they are also made using Flurry of Blows to make a full attack when he would ordinarily be unable to.

For example, Tien moves 40ft with his move action and then makes a full attack (gaining his Skirmish bonus to melee attack rolls, to AC, and to damage) as a standard action. Each attack in that full attack suffers a -2 penalty to attack rolls. If he makes any attacks of opportunity later in the round, those attacks do not suffer this penalty unless he also chooses to make a full attack as an attack of opportunity. If he does, the penalty remains -2, it does not stack with the previous penalty.

Blindsense (Ex): At 10th level, a Monk gains the blindsense ability out to 30ft. This ability functions as described on page 306 of the Monster Manual (or as described here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#blindsightAndBlindsense)).

At 14th level, a Monk's blindsense stretches to 60ft.

At 18th level, a Monk gains blindsight out to 30ft (he retains his 60ft blindsense).

Ghost Strike (Su): At 10th level and higher, a Monk can spend one daily use of his Ki Power to strike incorporeal and ethereal creatures as if they were corporeal. He can also use this ability to strike corporeal foes or foes on the Material Plane while he is himself incorporeal or ethereal.

Activating Ghost Strike is a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It enables the Monk to see invisible and/or ethereal creatures normally until the start of his next turn, and affects all attacks he makes during that time.

Leaf on the Wind (Su): Starting at 12th level, a Monk can move across the surface of a liquid such as water, acid, or magma, without sinking or taking damage as long as he begins and end his movement on a solid, stable surface.

Abundant Step (Su): At 14th level and higher, a Monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door, by spending one daily use of his Ki Power. His caster level for this effect is equal to his Monk level. Unlike casting the spell, using this ability requires only a move action and the Monk retains the use of his other actions for the round.

Empty Body (Su): At 18th level and higher, a Monk can spend two daily uses of his Ki Power to enter the Ethereal Plane for an extended period of time. This ability functions as the ethereal jaunt spell with a caster level equal to the Monk's class level.

Freedom (Su): A 20th-level Monk can slip from bonds, grapples, and even the effects of confining spells with ease. This ability duplicates the effects of the air walk and freedom of movement spells simultaneously, except that both are always active. A Monk loses this benefit when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

Perfect Self (Su): At 20th level, a Monk becomes a legendary creature, suffering no penalties from aging (and removing any already accrued), gaining the ability to speak to with any creature (living or unliving, regardless of intelligence score), and becoming immune to death effects, ability damage and drain, and immune to calling and transmutation effects.

He is treated interchangeably as a Humanoid or an Outsider, each whenever it would be beneficial, and neither at any time it would be detrimental.

He gains Regeneration equal to his Wisdom modifier that is overcome by critical hits, chaotic-aligned weapons, and anarchic damage.

EdroGrimshell
2012-04-26, 08:17 PM
Looks interesting, it's not the best monk remake i've ever seen (that goes to T. G. Oscar), but it's definitely in the top 5 monk remakes. The Enhancement Bonus in particular is rather unique to this monk remake, and i like it.

Ziegander
2012-04-26, 08:39 PM
Looks interesting, it's not the best monk remake i've ever seen (that goes to T. G. Oscar), but it's definitely in the top 5 monk remakes. The Enhancement Bonus in particular is rather unique to this monk remake, and i like it.

You know, it's interesting, because I have read T. G.'s fix before, but it was a long time ago, and I never really thought about it again. I certainly didn't review it when I wrote this one. It's interesting that we took such similar approaches for such similar reasons.

I too was musing on how so many people just say, "Unarmed Swordsage replaces the Monk," and how that didn't jive with me or with many people, and so I began to try and isolate what exactly it is people expect a Monk to do. I too, arrived at the conclusion that the Ki Power pool that Ninjas have actually represents a lot of what people expect from Monks, and so I too decided to look into ways to retrofit the concept to the Monk.

T. G.'s is definitely more powerful than mine in many ways, but I tried to keep this revision simple and in its most distilled form - in my mind, people tend to expect a Monk to be an unarmed, unarmored guy that beats people up with his fists and uses his mastery of his own spirit to hit harder, protect him, and to perform other, minor, supernatural feats. I think I definitely got those points across and I don't think my revision has any points that are ancillary to those, or that take away from those points. So, I consider that a personal success anyway.

EDIT: A point of concern about my revision - does the Ki Dodge ability seem too powerful as written? I am considering making it an immediate action that applies to just one attack or targeted spell/effect.

silphael
2012-04-26, 09:06 PM
I like your remake, but on the monk side, I already met jiriku's one, which I love because of the "it is the PHB monk, with all it take to fill the concept it has, without adding any point system".


The regeneration from perfect self seems strange to me. Why cursed weapons and vile damage? Is the monk suddenly becoming good? Maybe simply chaotic weapons and anarchic damage?

Ziegander
2012-04-27, 02:48 PM
I like your remake, but on the monk side, I already met jiriku's one, which I love because of the "it is the PHB monk, with all it take to fill the concept it has, without adding any point system".

Jiriku's Monk is one of the best I've seen, definitely right up there with T.G.'s, and it has some abilities that I really wish this fix could emulate (a lot of the skill related stuff), but they just don't really fit with the design goals.


The regeneration from perfect self seems strange to me. Why cursed weapons and vile damage? Is the monk suddenly becoming good? Maybe simply chaotic weapons and anarchic damage?

Curses aren't inherently evil, and I see vile damage, evil though it certainly is, as more like negative energy, anathema to living things, except even more so. I don't think having his regeneration be overcome by stuff damage that is literally the bane of living things makes him seem to be "suddenly becoming good."

On the other hand, the more I think about it, the more I'm not bothered at all with substituting "cursed weapons, negative energy, and vile damage" with "chaotic weapons." Anarchic damage... is that a thing that actually exists?

EdroGrimshell
2012-04-27, 08:01 PM
I was actually taking about his second one, not the first one. He did a retool of his original retool

Ziegander
2012-04-28, 04:21 PM
I was actually taking about his second one, not the first one. He did a retool of his original retool

Got a link to said retooled retool?

T.G. Oskar
2012-04-29, 02:25 AM
Well, since it's a petition by the OP, I feel like I need to oblige (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226857).

But, this also makes me feel obliged to comment, so...I expect to be fair.

The first thing at clear sight: kudos for Legend Lore. It brings a bit of the "western Monk" feel in case someone feels shunned because of the Eastern feel, yet it still works wonders with an Eastern-themed monk.

Skirmish is something I see in a lot of Monk fixes, and there's many good reasons why that happens. It fits very well with the class' aim towards mobile combat. However, I must declare myself ambivalent towards using Skirmish, if only because it motivates a specific kind of combat (mobility). The lack of bonus feats surprises me as well, given that having stuff like Improved Grapple, Improved Trip or Combat Reflexes pretty much for free really made for a slight variance on the class. This is dangerous, because it makes the class feel a lot like a build, which is the main thing that Swordsage tackles. It's both good and bad for the Monk; good because it adds a LOT of damage in very short time (1d10+2d6+2 two times adds up, with Skirmish effectively eating up the FoB penalty), bad because it shoehorns the character into a build.

I'm actually surprised that Wis doesn't come up very much. The choice of ability scores baffles me a bit: it's focused on Dex and Con primary (with Weapon Finesse after 3rd level to add your Dex to attack rolls instead of Str), with Wis mostly helping on Legend Lore, Ki Power, initiative checks and eventually regeneration of all things. Strength, it seems, is no longer necessary, if I perceive correctly: with the loss of free Imp. Grapple and Imp. Trip, Strength becomes a quaternary stat at most (i.e. less important than Dex/Con/Wis). Certainly much less MAD than before, but it sacrifices some of the build options (a Strength-focused Dex-less Monk isn't possible, for example). It's a good step, but for some reason it seems to limit builds a bit.

Again, the loss of bonus feats hurts. While you no longer need that many feats, cutting 1 feat and basically forcing you into 2 chosen feats cuts options. Since the class is meant for 3.5, that means the Monk is feat-starved, which is usually a problem in many martial characters.

Knowledge Devotion is...cute, to say the least, and certainly a fitting choice, but I see a slight problem with it. Either it's the cleverest way to add Wis to attack and damage rolls (Wis is added to the Legend Lore check, you use Legend Lore to power up Knowledge Devotion, KD adds bonuses to attack and damage, hence you add Wis to attack and damage), or you're forcing people to choose Knowledge skills (particularly Arcana, Nature and Religion) and thus you might want some positive Int (which leads to MADness). It seems like a mix of both to me (because you can only use the Legend Lore ability on "legendary creatures", which means only characters of 11th level and potentially CR 11 creatures will be affected, so it seems like a late-game bonus. I'll incline for "cute and clever but somewhat awkward way to add damage".

IMO, I find Ki Dodge weak. It's a split-second concealment for the cost of 1 ki point, which means you have a...80% chance to waste 1 ki point for nothing? At that moment, a potion of Blur/Displacement can do mostly the same (or better) effect for a longer while (3 minutes/5 rounds) and a Bracers of Armor +1 enchanting yourself with the Blurring effect costs 1000 plus a +1 effective enhancement bonus, which nets you 3 uses of Blur for 5 rounds. Extending the duration and keeping it as an immediate action (so you can activate it before battle or in response to an enemy attack) would make it slightly more useful. The duration could be based on class level (1 round per six class levels) or ability score modifier (Wis would be fitting here), or even both (Wis + 1 round/6 levels).

Blindsense, Leaf on the Wind: ha! :D Nice one! Coupled with Ghost Strike...

Speaking of Ghost Strike: it's a decent move, but even with the many points of ki you might get, it feels like too little. It really forces you to kill the ethereal creature quick, or you'll have to waste one or two uses of ki per round to make ends meet. I can understand using perhaps 1 or 2 daily uses of ki per encounter at that moment, but then you add Stunning Fist and Abundant Step and Empty Body, and the chances of reaching your fourth encounter of the day with at least 1 point of ki remaining (even with class modifier + Wis uses per day) grow slimmer. Consider that you, by 18th level, get about 6 uses of ki per encounter (if we assume 4 encounters on the day and a Wis of 24 or more), 3 of which might be consumed on Empty Body + Ghost Strike on the first turn (because, why not fight ethereal pretty much ALL the time? That's between 50-100% chance of avoiding everything!), and then potentially finishing the battle ASAP before 3 turns pass or you'll potentially exceed 6 uses per day (if you need to use Abundant Step or Stunning Fist). Considering that you allow many more uses (Fiery Fist, Fiery Ki Defense, Ki Blast, plus all of the feats from Complete Scoundrel and potentially even the jutsu feats from Dragon Magazine) of ki than you might consider, it might make you consume 2 or even 3 daily uses of ki each turn, which may be a bad idea. At least it's a turn-long duration, which with Enduring Ki means it can last for 2 turns...

Freedom, IMO, comes too late for my taste. Air Walk is gained FAR too late, when you should have had it some time ago. Even with the ranks in Balance and the Acrobatics ability at +40, it's essentially impossible to stand in air, which means that until 20th level you need a method of flight OR a very good long range weapon, both of which you lack. Freedom of Movement is a very good ability that shouldn't appear early on, but...the Scout gets it 2 levels earlier. I'll let you handle that, because you already might know what I would suggest instead, and I'd prefer your solution to be truly yours.

The main problem I find with the class, and with many Monk fixes around, is that they shoehorn you into a singular build. Sure, being a master puncher is awesome and all, but it shouldn't be the end-all-be-all style of the Monk. Equally, a mobile skirmisher sounds more like a build than the foundation of a class (a problem I find with the Scout and the Soulknife: they're both essentially builds, with little variation from their main schtick. The Barbarian also falls into this same pitfall, but the quantity of ACFs that replace Rage and Fast Movement barely save it), and there's little variation from the formula. Now, I understand you wish to do like many and distill the essence of the Monk, making it a simple rework rather than an extensive one (a la Frank & K Tome Monk), but some variation to the theme would be nice. Jiriku did well in expanding, via ACFs, the reach of the Monk by making a variant that worked well as a trap defuser, other as a mobile skirmisher, and another as a martial arts master. I won't speak of my work as I find that to be shameless self-promotion and not the point of debate here, but if I can say something, it's that there are several dozen builds to tweak, so you may realize that my critique is guided towards those lines. I mention this because the Swordsage tackles exactly that; it can be a mobile skirmisher, a resilient warrior, a nimble assassin or a brutal damage dealer, and all it needs is to ready a few maneuvers. The Monk has its own ways to handle things (again: Legend Lore is an awesome way to handle that uniqueness that the Monk has, and Acrobatics+Knowledge Devotion adds to it) that make it distinctive from the Swordsage (unarmed or not) and thus self-standing.

I can't (and won't) say the class by itself has merit, but I'd like to see a bit more ability to work different builds. That might attract more people into trying the class, and it doesn't have to be needlessly complex (that's left to mine, which has that as its sole weakness). Tweaking some of the abilities does a fine work, but it definitely needs something else to boost it up, without sacrificing simplicity of build.