Divine Grace feat tree [PEACH?]

[Infernally Clay]

This is just a very simple feat tree. The inspiration wasn't anything major - I often take two levels of Paladin just for Divine Grace, which I'd then combo with Mettle and Evasion to create a saving throw monster, and I figured an alternative might be worthwhile. What're two feats compared to two levels? A Sorcerer would probably kill for these feats. :smalltongue:

Anyway, here they are...

Lesser Divine Grace
Prerequisites: 10 Charisma
Benefit: You gain a bonus to all saving throws equal to half your Charisma modifier. This is a supernatural effect that does not stack with the Paladin's Divine Grace class feature.

Divine Grace
Prerequisites: Lesser Divine Grace, 2nd level
Benefit: You gain a bonus to all saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier. This is a supernatural effect that does not stack with the Paladin's Divine Grace class feature.

Greater Divine Grace
Prerequisites: Divine Grace (feat or class feature), 12th level
Benefit: You gain a bonus to all saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier. In addition, if you make a successful saving throw against an effect that is normally reduced in some way on a successful save, you no longer suffer any effect at all. This is an extraordinary effect that replaces Divine Grace.

Epic Divine Grace [Epic]
Prerequisites: Greater Divine Grace, 21st level
Benefit: You gain a bonus to all saves equal to twice your Charisma modifier. In addition, if you make a successful saving throw against an effect that is normally reduced in some way, you no longer suffer any effect at all. Even if you fail the save, you still only suffer the partial effect. This is an extraordinary effect that replaces Greater Divine Grace.
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What do you think? I tried to combine the Paladin's Divine Grace with Evasion and Mettle for a 12th level character (you can get all three long before 12th level, but one to three feats is much more convenient so there's a trade off). The epic conclusion combines a twice as strong Divine Grace with Improved Evasion and Improved Mettle (which doesn't exist). All in all, the final feat is primarily to ensure the Divine Grace ability remains relevant at epic levels. By investing in just two feats, a Paladin's saves will be near impregnable once they reach 21st level.

[Cieyrin]

These blow every other feat save booster out of the water, at least if you're Cha dependent. I think they shouldn't be achievable till after Paladin can pick up Divine Grace, though, like how Incarnum Binds are achievable by feats somewhat later than the classes that grant them get them, as the ability to dabble without spending feats is a powerful one that will obsolete Sorcadins and make Hexblades weep.

As such, I'd require Lesser require Level 3 and Cha 15 (so you can actually benefit from it and make you actually invest), Normal at 6th (potentially add a Knowledge(Religion) requirement) and I guess Greater and Epic are probably right on, though a Knowledge(Religion) requirement would make them less an auto-pick, which it currently is.

[Answerer]

These blow every other feat save booster out of the water
To be fair, that isn't particularly hard, nor should balance with those feats be the standard by which this is judged.

It still is probably too good, mind you, but comparing it to the official save-boosting feats is a recipe for a waste of time. Even the better ones (Unnatural Will or Force of Personality, whichever is the one that just works, and that one that allows Con-to-Will and no auto-failing Fort saves on a 1) aren't exactly great feats.

[toapat]

To be fair, that isn't particularly hard, nor should balance with those feats be the standard by which this is judged.

It still is probably too good, mind you, but comparing it to the official save-boosting feats is a recipe for a waste of time. Even the better ones (Unnatural Will or Force of Personality, whichever is the one that just works, and that one that allows Con-to-Will and no auto-failing Fort saves on a 1) aren't exactly great feats.

Unnatural will is not the one that lets you not auto-fail fortitude saves, and is in fact the worse version of Force of personality

[Cieyrin]

To be fair, that isn't particularly hard, nor should balance with those feats be the standard by which this is judged.

It still is probably too good, mind you, but comparing it to the official save-boosting feats is a recipe for a waste of time. Even the better ones (Unnatural Will or Force of Personality, whichever is the one that just works, and that one that allows Con-to-Will and no auto-failing Fort saves on a 1) aren't exactly great feats.

Steadfast Determination, PHB2. Good stuff, that. Better than Indomitable Soul, certainly.

[Answerer]

Unnatural will is not the one that lets you not auto-fail fortitude saves, and is in fact the worse version of Force of personality
Yeah, I thought my statement might lend itself to mis-parsing: I was referring to whichever of Unnatural Will and Force of Personality wasn't the one that only worked on Mind-Affecting stuff. And I was also referring, separately, to Steadfast Determination, as Cieyrin has helpfully named.