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View Full Version : Ability Score Advancment through Training



hxolhpths
2012-04-29, 01:37 PM
i tried a lot of times to search the forum using combinations of "Ability" and "Train" or "Training" and i always got an internal error as answer so..

After my players expressed the need to train for some Ability scores (poor magic item campaign) i decided to homebrew the following since i wasnt able to fid an official way or even a homebrewed one..
here it is...


In order an individual to advance an ability score,he have to train in related
skills as the Ability he wishes to advance. He need to acquire 6 skill ranks,
via DmG Pg:197 rules ,equally* among those skills. Keep in mind that those
ranks can not exceed maximum ranks per level.
He has to state in advance that the purpose of the training is ability score
advancement, and after completing the train he has to forfeit 3 of the newly
trained ranks.
Training needs to be daily, 8 hours per day, without any adventuring or any
kind of strenuous activity. He may stop training after each rank earned this
way, and resume after 7 days.
Failing the above will result in waisting the time spended in ability advancment
although he keeps the skill ranks earned through the proccess.

* He chooses 3** ability related skills on which he get trained at, and split those
ranks equally.
** In case of he chooses Con as the ability to advance, he may choose from :
Climb,Concetration,Jump and Swim.


it seems hard and its supposed to be,thinking that if it was easy then there should be an official way to do it.. my players found it realistic and viable enough... your opinions?

Morph Bark
2012-04-29, 02:19 PM
This makes advancing Int incredibly easy and advancing Str and Con rather hard (especially since their skills are less useful than Int skills, especially at high levels, except in skill-heavy outdoors/rooftop campaigns).

hxolhpths
2012-04-29, 02:30 PM
This makes advancing Int incredibly easy and advancing Str and Con rather hard (especially since their skills are less useful than Int skills, especially at high levels, except in skill-heavy outdoors/rooftop campaigns).

how its been easier for 1 ability than another? it takes the same time.. the same effort... remember that the goal is to train in ability not skills.. so if the skill is usefull or not is irelevant to the outcome.. that he/she wants +Ability.

Ashtagon
2012-04-29, 03:39 PM
how its been easier for 1 ability than another? it takes the same time.. the same effort... remember that the goal is to train in ability not skills.. so if the skill is usefull or not is irelevant to the outcome.. that he/she wants +Ability.

As I understand it, this essentially boils down to spending 18 skill points to gain one ability score point.

Intelligence modifiers apply to the number of skill points you gain. So all other things being equal, a high-Int character will have more skill points than a low-Int character, and so will be better able to boost his ability scores.

In any case, a mechanic already exists for boosting ability scores through training. It happens every 4th level...

Mithril Leaf
2012-04-29, 03:40 PM
There's simply far more intelligence skills, and having good intelligence gives you more skill points to begin with. Of course, rogues make out like bandits, but that's neither here nor there.

Morph Bark
2012-04-29, 03:40 PM
Time and effort are meaningless if you have plenty of downtime. And if you don't, you'll be most likely not using these rules.

Due to it having more skills associated with it, if you had plenty of skill points/level, you could increase a lot of Int skills and then sacrifice the ranks to increase your Int instead. With other ability scores this would be harder since they have less skills associated with them, some less than 6. Furthermore, due to increasing Int you then increase your skill points, which then can be used to increase your Int skills, which can be sacrificed to increase your Int score instead, etc.

Reading over it again, the line "He chooses 3** ability related skills on which he get trained at, and split those ranks equally" might be meant for you to imply that you can only do this once every 2 levels, but if you mean that then you definitely need to word that more clearly.

Xechon
2012-04-29, 06:41 PM
Now I say this to a lot of people, but for this fix, you do not belong in D&D. Try out GURPS (http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG31-0004) or Burning Wheels (still can't find where I got my pdf for that). The skill system in Burning wheels will support the ability training by skill training, and GURPS has a tonne of skills, traits, disadvnatages, etc. to make this work reliably. Would still require conversion and homebrew, a heck of a lot more than what you did here, but it would work. Not so much in D&D.

Edit: Found the burning wheels (http://www.veljeskunta.info/anttiki/bw/BW_Core.pdf) pdf.

hxolhpths
2012-04-30, 02:53 AM
Wait wait...
those 6 skills...
no matter how many skills you get by leveling... you may get 1 you may get 100 by high Int... for this Ability Train to apply you have to Train those by the DMG training rules..

He need to acquire 6 skill ranks,
via DmG Pg:197 rules
with a Proffesional Trainer... so... its the same for everyone... its even more difficult for high Int chars cause...

Keep in mind that those
ranks can not exceed maximum ranks per level.

so they have to plan their skills to have "free ranks slots" to start this proccess...
as far for downtime you are right but keep in mind that the DM can always bring a fight or anything else to them to distract em... thats why there is this in that rule also...


Training needs to be daily, 8 hours per day, without any adventuring or any
kind of strenuous activity. He may stop training after each rank earned this
way, and resume after 7 days.
Failing the above will result in waisting the time spended in ability advancment
although he keeps the skill ranks earned through the proccess.

if a challenge come to them during this process they ll have 3 choicess..
forfeit the training, forfeit the chalenge or w8 until reach the 7 days break limit and then they ll have to be sure that they will be able to resume after 7 days..
was there anything else you veto'd for or i covered all?

Reluctance
2012-04-30, 05:59 AM
Low magic 3.5 does not work. Unless you carefully strip out every magic using PC class and every supernatural monster, the system depends on it for balance. Stripping out items just means mundane types become more dependent on casters, while stripping out PC magic just means they're not prepared for level-equivalent monsters. It's like trying to play chess with only pawns.

E6 has feats for raising stats, IIRC. As does epic play. Having said that, it sounds like you'd be happier with a system where XP gets pumped directly into your stats.

SinsI
2012-04-30, 06:41 AM
Just make such a training cost money, and put some limits on it.
I.e.:
You can increase your abilities through paid training. The maximum amount of points increase is equal to your character's level.
You can only train the stats up to the normal starting character limits. Magic bonuses or stat increases at level/4 does not count toward that limit.

The cost to increase an ability is 1000*stat_increase gold greater than the appropriate magic item that does the same thing. You can't increase any stat by more than the best such item available in the world. I.e. if you had at start a strength of 6, and want to increase it to 9 - you pay 3000 gold more than the cost of belt of giant strength +3, and you probably can't train it to more than 12.

Treat the increases as "he just rolled better at the character creation" - if the character permanently loses some points in ability (through i.e. death), those points can't be restored through training.

Ashtagon
2012-04-30, 02:54 PM
Just make such a training cost money, and put some limits on it.
I.e.:
You can increase your abilities through paid training. The maximum amount of points increase is equal to your character's level.
You can only train the stats up to the normal starting character limits. Magic bonuses or stat increases at level/4 does not count toward that limit.

The cost to increase an ability is 1000*stat_increase gold greater than the appropriate magic item that does the same thing. You can't increase any stat by more than the best such item available in the world. I.e. if you had at start a strength of 6, and want to increase it to 9 - you pay 3000 gold more than the cost of belt of giant strength +3, and you probably can't train it to more than 12.

Treat the increases as "he just rolled better at the character creation" - if the character permanently loses some points in ability (through i.e. death), those points can't be restored through training.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#manualofGainfulExercise

Refluff this as paying a master for training instead of reading a book, and you have the same effect.