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View Full Version : The FEAT-ER (Heavily Revised) Base Class



jjpickar
2012-04-30, 11:38 PM
This is (mostly) a joke. Shooting for a low tier 2 or high tier 3, the former is my guess though they really get going around level 10. One of the changes I am considering would have to do with introducing Feat magic at early levels.

Iím not like those other warriors. I donít get particularly angry and flip out like the Barbarian, Iím not gazing at my navel in hopes of improving a pathetic supply of power points like the Psychic Warrior, and I sure as heck donít go around like the Warblade and announce my attack techniques Every. Single. Time. I. Use. One. No, I just like to sit in a corner with my books and a sheet of paper, patiently running the numbers. That is, until itís time to stab something in the face. I can do that just fine.

Some call them War Scholars. Others call them Accountants with Swords. But most know FEAT-ERs not by their titles but by the variety of ways theyíve figured out to make holes in an enemy. The FEAT-ER is a warrior that studies the techniques of war with an obsession unmatched by any other class. The benefit is that they know every feat ever created. Unfortunately, this knowledge is so great that they can only utilize a small number of them at a time. Still what is ďsmallĒ for the FEAT-ER is more than any other class will ever have and with an eight hour rest and another hour pouring over their vast collections of manuals, compendiums and handbooks, they have access to potentially any feat. Further, they eventually develop the technique of jogging their memory with a little brisk exercise (read: fighting). The very greatest masters have even developed a whole new brand of magic: FEAT MAGIC! Regardless, they are valued by their companions as staunch warriors and good, if usually introverted, friends.

Game Rule Information

FEAT-ERs have the following game statistics.

Traditional Warrior attributes are preferred. Constitution for toughness, Strength for melee and Dexterity for ranged and AC. Still, considering their wide access to feats, they may favor other abilities.

Alignment: Any (Some wish that they could change their alignment like they change their feats. Who knows? Maybe some of them do.)

Hit Die: D8 (Not a caster? Hereís a consolation prize. Itís about as awesome as a consolation prize generally ends up being.)

Class Skills

Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (dungeoneering), Listen, Pro-(They do not get a profession. They dedicated their life to feats and you expect them to get a job? Did I mention that they also have trouble getting married? No? Well, um, never mind.) Ride, Search, Spot, Survival, Swim, and Tumble.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2+Int Modifier)x4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2+ Int Modifier

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Feat Slot, Feat Magic (0 Level Spells), Feat Magic Curse

2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Jog Memory (one slot), Feat Magic (1st level Spells 1/per day)

3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Feat Slot

4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Jog Memory (two slots), Feat Magic (1st level Spells 2/per day)

5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Feat Slot, Feat Magic (2nd Level Spells 1/per day)

6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|Jog Memory (three slots), (Feat Magic 3rd level spells 1/per day)

7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2|Feat Slot (2nd Level Spells 2/per day, 1st level spells 3/per day)

8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|Jog Memory (four slots)

9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3|Feat Slot, (3rd Level Spells 2/per day, 2nd level spells 3/per day)

10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|Jog Memory (five slots), Feat Magic (4th level spells 1/per day)

11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3|Feat Slot, Feat Magic (3rd level spells 3/per day)

12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4|Feat Magic (4th level spells 2/per day)

13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4|Feat Slot, Feat Magic (5th level spells 1/per day)

14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4|Feat Magic (Metamagic feats applied to 1st-3rd levels spells)

15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|Feat Slot, Feat Magic (6th level spells 1/per day)

16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5|Feat Magic (5th level spells 2/per day)

17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5|Feat Slot, Feat Magic (Metamagic feats applied to 4th-5th levels spells)

18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6|Feat Magic (6th level spells 2/per day)

19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6|Feat Slot, Feat Magic (Metamagic feats applied to 6th level spells)

20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|Share a Feat

[/table]


Class FEAT-URES

All of the following are class features of the FEAT-ER.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: FEAT-ERs are proficient in all in their unarmed strike and any natural weapons they possess, simple and martial weapons, light, medium and heavy armor, and shields; including tower shields.

Feat Slots (Ex): At first level and every odd numbered level after first, FEAT-ERs gain a Feat Slot. Each feat slot allows a FEAT-ER to place a feat in the slot and gain the benefit of that feat as if he knew it. Once a feat is in a Feat Slot, it remains there until it is changed. A FEAT-ER may change all of the feats currently in a feat slot once every 24 hours and only after he has had one hour studying several manuals, compendiums and handbooks containing the various feats he wishes to use. The result of this study must be recorded on sheet of paper hereafter referred to as the Feat Sheet. The Sheet is non-magical but the FEAT-ER is under a compulsion (even if normally immune to compulsion) as if he was effected by a Geas/Quest cast by a 20th level Wizard that compels him to protect the Feat Sheet to the best of his ability until he makes a new one. If the Feat Sheet is ever destroyed, the FEAT-ER is placed under the effects of a barbarianís rage class feature for one round per feat slot that the FEAT-ER possesses. The FEAT-ER must qualify for the prerequisites of any feat before he can place a feat in a Feat Slot. The FEAT-ER may treat any feats gained from any source as additional Feat Slots instead of feats unless he multiclasses or takes a prestige class. If a FEAT-ER does this, he will only be able to use the feat slots he has gained from the FEAT-ER class and the rest of his feats become normal feats of his choice. Feat Slots may count towards meeting the prerequisites of other feats as long as they occupy a feat slot. If a prerequisite feat is removed from a feat slot than any feats requiring the removed prerequisite feat are also emptied. Emptied feat slots are either filled during the 1/per 24 hour Feat Sheet reworking or from a use of the Jog Memory class feature (see below). Feats occupying Feat Slots may never qualify as prerequisites for the purposes of entering a prestige class.



Feat Magic (Sp): The FEAT-ER is capable of some magic due to his extensive studies but the exact source of his power is difficult and he growls at people that try to touch his books.

The save DC for spells cast via Feat Magic is equal to the 10+the FEAT-ERís Int, Wis, or Cha Bonus (the FEAT-ER chooses which attribute to use at 1st level and may not change it thereafter)+ the spellís level. At no point is the FEAT-ER considered a spell caster for the purposes of any prerequisite or ability nor is he considered to have a caster level except for the purposes of determining effects relating to spells he has cast through the use of this ability.

At 1st level, the FEAT-ER may choose 5 0 level spells from the Bard, Cleric, Druid, or Sorcerer Wizard spell lists. There after he may sacrifice a Feat Slot and use one of those selected spells as a spell like ability. The Feat Slot that is sacrificed regains its Feat in 1 minute.

At 2nd level, the FEAT-ER may select 3 1st level spells from the Bard, Cleric, Druid, or Sorcerer Wizard spell lists. Once per day, a FEAT-ER may cast one of the selected spells as a spell-like ability by sacrificing a Feat Slot. He may refill the Feat Slot with a use of Jog Memory.

At 4th level, the FEAT-ER may select 3 2nd level spells from the Bard, Cleric, Druid, or Sorcerer Wizard spell lists. Once per day, a FEAT-ER may cast one of the selected spells as a spell-like ability by sacrificing a Feat Slot.

At 5th level He may refill the Feat Slot with a use of Jog Memory. He may now use his 1st level spells twice per day.

At 6th level, the FEAT-ER may select 3 3rd level spells from the Bard, Cleric, Druid, or Sorcerer Wizard spell lists. Once per day, a FEAT-ER may cast one of the selected spells as a spell-like ability by sacrificing a Feat Slot. He may refill the Feat Slot with a use of Jog Memory.

At 7th level He may now use his 2nd level spells twice per day and his 1st three times per day.

At 9th level he may now use his 3rd level spells twice and his 2nd level spells three times per day.

At 10th level, the FEAT-ER may select 3 4th level spells from the Bard, Cleric, Druid, or Sorcerer Wizard spell lists. Once per day, a FEAT-ER may cast one of the selected spells as a spell-like ability by sacrificing 2 Feat Slots. One Feat Slot may be recovered as with Jog memory but the other must remain empty until the FEAT-ER performs his once per 24 hour Feat Sheet reworking.

At 11th level, the FEAT-ER may now cast his 3rd level spells three times per day.

At 12th level, the FEAT-ER may now cast his 4th level spells twice per day.

At 13th level, the FEAT-ER may select 3 5th level spells from the Bard, Cleric, Druid, or Sorcerer Wizard spell lists. Once per day, a FEAT-ER may cast one of the selected spells as a spell-like ability by sacrificing 2 Feat Slots. One Feat Slot may be recovered as with Jog memory but the other must remain empty until the FEAT-ER performs his once per 24 hour Feat Sheet reworking.

At 14th level, the FEAT-ER gains the ability to apply metamagic feats to his 1st-3rd level spells as long as he has those feats in his Feat Slots. For every slot increases that a metamagic feat causes, the FEAT-ER must sacrifice and additional Feat Slot, recoverable via Jog Memory.

A 15th level, the FEAT-ER may select 3 6th level spells from the Bard, Cleric, Druid, or Sorcerer Wizard spell lists. Once per day, a FEAT-ER may cast one of the selected spells as a spell-like ability by sacrificing 2 Feat Slots. One Feat Slot may be recovered as with Jog memory but the other must remain empty until the FEAT-ER performs his once per 24 hour Feat Sheet reworking.

At 16 level, the FEAT-ER may cast his 5th level spells twice per day.

At 17th level the FEAT-ER may apply metamagic to his 4th and 5th level spells as long as he has those feats in his Feat Slots. For every slot increase that a metamagic feat causes, the FEAT-ER must sacrifice and additional Feat Slot, recoverable via Jog Memory.

At 18th level, the FEAT-ER may cast his 6th level spells twice per day.

At 19th level, the FEAT-ER may apply metamagic to his 6th level spells as long as he has those feats in his Feat Slots. For every slot increase that a metamagic feat causes, the FEAT-ER must sacrifice and additional Feat Slot, recoverable via Jog Memory.


Feat Magic Curse (Ex): Any FEAT-ER that sacrifices 3 or more Feat Slots in order to cast spells or manifest powers has gains a -2 penalty to Fortitudes saves, a +2 bonus to Will Saves, and a -3 penalty to attack rolls. This curse lasts for 10 rounds. The curse is reduced to 5 rounds at level 11 and is completely eliminated at level 20.



Jog Memory (Ex): At second level, the FEAT-ER, after having fought in an encounter, may change one feat that is currently in one of his Feat Slots with any other feat he wishes. He must meet the prerequisites of any feat he wishes to place in a Feat Slot, however. A FEAT-ER may change an additional slot with a use of Jog Memory at levels, 4, 6, 8, and 10. This process takes five minutes, pen and ink, and the Feat Sheet that must be edited, often while crying.

Share a Feat (Ex): A FEAT-ER of 20th level may sacrifice a Feat Slot in order to give an ally the benefit of the Feat contained in the sacrificed slot. The ally is then treated as if they possessed the feat even if they do not meet the prerequisites of the feat. Feats gained in this way last for five minutes and do not count towards any prerequisites such as other feats or for the purposes of multi-classing. The FEAT-ER may use the feature as many times as he wishes but only 3 times per day per ally. Slots sacrificed in this manner may be regained via Jog Memory.

toapat
2012-04-30, 11:51 PM
This class is tier 5 from levels 1-5.
At level 6 they become Tier 0, as they can load up at lvl 6: Mettle, Evasion, and Improved Evasion.
By lvl 11 they can up that to Mettle, Improved Mettle, Superior Mettle, Evasion, Improved Evasion, and Superior Evasion.
By lvl 20, these guys make PunPun cry.

Correction, this is the only way i can think of that outpaces the Knowledge (Planes) DC25 ascension of PunPun.

jjpickar
2012-05-01, 11:37 AM
Ouch, that bad huh? Well here's a revision. I see what you mean about level 6; I wasn't really considering that. Still, here's hoping the concept can right itself. If its not too much trouble can anyone tell me if the revision helps or what (specifically) should be done. Or is it just kind of too broken to use?

toapat
2012-05-01, 03:07 PM
Ouch, that bad huh? Well here's a revision. I see what you mean about level 6; I wasn't really considering that. Still, here's hoping the concept can right itself. If its not too much trouble can anyone tell me if the revision helps or what (specifically) should be done. Or is it just kind of too broken to use?

Actually, no, this edit doesn't help (wrong direction). What you should have done is removed the requirements bypass, because there are legit requirements forthings like evasion.

Garryl
2012-05-01, 03:54 PM
How is this guy getting Evasion and Mettle and whatnot, exactly? Have they been printed as feats in some obscure source I don't know about?

toapat
2012-05-01, 04:06 PM
How is this guy getting Evasion and Mettle and whatnot, exactly? Have they been printed as feats in some obscure source I don't know about?

actually, yes, Evasion does have a Pre-requisite for being taken as a feat: 3 base reflex save from Unearthed Arcana, Mettle would have base 3 Fort and will save.

in more liberal definition of pre-requisites, every single non-Spell/Power is a feat, and has pre-requisites of Level X of Class Y, or must be Species Z

Garryl
2012-05-01, 04:51 PM
That does not sound right. In addition to the fact that the Generic Classes (and their associated feats) is a variant that precludes the use of standard classes (meaning no FEAT-ER to ignore prereqs with), the list of class feature feats given there is an exclusive list. Other class features may be available, but it is explicitly only with the game master's permission.

Liberal definition of prerequisites or not, class features are still not feats.

That being said, I agree that a blanket removal of prerequisites (whether individually or as a whole) is a bad idea that is ripe for abuse. Feats alone won't make a character, but the addition of spellcasting at a progression similar to the Bard's is an interesting choice that should make a reasonably well rounded and useful class. I can't speak of the balance of it as I've only skimmed the class, but the "feat sheets" made me chuckle.

jjpickar
2012-05-01, 09:26 PM
Actually, no, this edit doesn't help (wrong direction). What you should have done is removed the requirements bypass, because there are legit requirements forthings like evasion.

Uh, I removed the prerequisite ignoring feature as well. Unless you are referring to the feat slots having the ability to act as prerequisites for other feat slots then you may have missed that.

Also, I want criticism but could you actually be specific about it so I don't have to scramble around trying to divine what was meant by "Outpaces...Pun Pun."

toapat
2012-05-01, 09:45 PM
Uh, I removed the prerequisite ignoring feature as well. Unless you are referring to the feat slots having the ability to act as prerequisites for other feat slots then you may have missed that.

Also, I want criticism but could you actually be specific about it so I don't have to scramble around trying to divine what was meant by "Outpaces...Pun Pun."

Pun-Pun is the Pinnacle of Theoretical Optimization. Its a complicated exploit of the rules that yields a lvl 1-5ish character with Infinite everything, complete damage immunity, and the ability to soundly trounce a pantheon or 10 in a turn. Did i mention he auto crits on everything? (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869366/The_most_powerful_character._EVER.)

Improved Evasion and Improved Mettle dont have Evasion or Mettle as pre-requisites

Amechra
2012-05-01, 09:52 PM
I laughed when I saw the comment that this class in its original form was stronger than Pun-Pun.

Nothing is stronger than Pun-Pun, because he is a theoretical "upper-limit set"; in other words, if you created the set of abilities "better than Pun-Pun", Pun-Pun would have those abilities.

jjpickar
2012-05-01, 10:28 PM
I know what Pun Pun is, what I don't understand is what specifically is making the FEAT-ER like Pun Pun and how one is gaining these capabilities. In short I don't know what you mean by citing him. For example, what sources are improved mettle, improved evasion (as the feat) and superior evasion coming from and how are they granting ultimate power?

Evasion and and improved evasion can't come from Unearthed Arcana because to quote the SRD on the generic class feats: "For the purposes of these classes, the following class features can be selected in place of bonus feats (unless noted, each may only be selected once)." Which would imply that a FEAT-ER could not obtain them. As for obtaining mettle and improved mettle as feats I have no idea. I've been googling these abilities but I can't seem to find a source.

I just want to fix this but I don't know what I'm up against here. I need the sources. Also, I don't see how gaining improved evasion and improved mettle (if he even can) makes him terribly powerful. He still dies to things that don't allow a save just like everyone else except Pun-Pun. Maybe I'm not familiar with these tricks. As I said I know about Pun Pun but I don't see the connection to these specific abilities. I even followed the link and searched the text for mention of them. If spelling the tricks out for me is too much trouble I can understand but if they're so good then surely you might know of some link to direct me to so I can figure it out. I'm getting rather frustrated.

toapat
2012-05-01, 10:43 PM
I laughed when I saw the comment that this class in its original form was stronger than Pun-Pun.

Nothing is stronger than Pun-Pun, because he is a theoretical "upper-limit set"; in other words, if you created the set of abilities "better than Pun-Pun", Pun-Pun would have those abilities.

there is one thing stronger then punpun, and that is something able to bypass the external help required to initate the ascension of Punpun at lvl 1

The problem is, that JJpickar is trying to justify RAI when RAW has basically already beaten, pounded, crushed, ground up, and set on fire his argument. Yes, RAI Class Features are not feats, but the game does not treat feats or class features any differently outside of how they are obtained, and even then, you still cant argue against Evasion because Unearthed Arcana converts the base classes into feat chains. RAI feats are things you go and learn after leveling up because you still have greater insight into your existance. Class features are things that you learn when you level up.

Yes, things like Evasion are not technically feats, No, you basically cant bypass the problem here because so long as you can research "Feats", you can get Manipulate Form, at which point Game Over.

Garryl
2012-05-01, 11:16 PM
@jjpickar
Would it be possible to simplify the spellcasting component of your class? It feels like a nigh-impregnable wall of text. Would it be possible to simplify it to something like a standard spells per day table and another class feature for the metamagic aspect that is included?

@toapat

I am having trouble understanding your logic, toapat. Could you please explain how, exactly, you are coming to the conclusions that you are coming to? If I understand correctly what you have written, those are:

- The only thing stronger than Pun-Pun would be a Pun-Pun-esque ascension that does not require external assistance.
- Feats and class features are functionally identical vis a vis the rules.
- Unearthed Arcana's variant rules allow all class features to be taken as feats.
- Feats and class features both being acquired through gaining levels
- New feats can be researched.
- The above are relevant to the FEAT-ER and make it overpowered in comparison to other classes.

Is the above correct? If so, could you please explain the rules and logic that lead to such conclusions. If not, could you please indicate what your position actually is (and also explain the rules and logic that lead to it)? Preferably without the hyperbole that obfuscates the true meaning and intent of your words.

jjpickar
2012-05-01, 11:42 PM
@toapat: I never intended them to "research" feats. The "research" is merely just flavor text. They are still only restricted to the feats they would normally be able to qualify for. The research is supposed to be a metaphor for an actual player looking through the rule books for the feats he wants to use for his slots. Basically what I'm saying is that there is no part of the FEAT-ER text that I know of that allows him to make new feats. I also don't know of any rules that do either.

@Garryl: Sure, I'm not really happy with the current layout anyway. I basically want them to have the ability to use feats to fuels spells but I'm having a hard time coming up with a simple way of explaining it. Currently I modeled their spell level progression roughly off of the Bard but with less spells per day and wider selection. I will put the metamagic applications in a separate class feature for sure. Would having a separate list of spell levels, the cost in feats for each, and the level at which they are obtained work?

toapat
2012-05-01, 11:53 PM
I am having trouble understanding your logic, toapat. Could you please explain how, exactly, you are coming to the conclusions that you are coming to? If I understand correctly what you have written, those are:

- The only thing stronger than Pun-Pun would be a Pun-Pun-esque ascension that does not require external assistance.
- Feats and class features are functionally identical vis a vis the rules.
- Unearthed Arcana's variant rules allow all class features to be taken as feats.
- Feats and class features both being acquired through gaining levels
- New feats can be researched.
- The above are relevant to the FEAT-ER and make it overpowered in comparison to other classes.

Is the above correct? If so, could you please explain the rules and logic that lead to such conclusions. If not, could you please indicate what your position actually is (and also explain the rules and logic that lead to it)? Preferably without the hyperbole that obfuscates the true meaning and intent of your words.

His original version allowed you to obtain at first level without issue Manipulate form. This is because it is a racial ability. All racial abilities are treated as feats with Requirements that a player is incapable of meeting.
The rules dont differentiate between feats and class/racial abilities, the Pun-Pun thread outlines this spectacularly with a way to create a DM analogue character without using any rules bending.
UA was brought up as it is a legit source with pre-requisites for Evasion/Improved, those being +3/+7 base reflex save, and a feat slot.