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Temotei
2012-05-08, 06:04 PM
Sentinel

http://i.imgur.com/pA0KYl.jpg (http://anotherwanderer.deviantart.com/art/Defender-261060928?q=boost%3Apopular%20defender%20woman&qo=0)
A true sentinel doesn't let fear get in the way of defending anyone, including herself.
-- Fiona Fairland, sentinel

Defense is important for all, but none feel it as their calling such as the sentinel does. The sentinel is one of the few who develop their defensive skills so deeply that she can make them offensive measures as well, making the sentinel a dangerous opponent, indeed.

Adventures: Many sentinels set out to defend the world from whatever they feel is wrong or bad; injustice, tyranny, evil, or whatever all might fit in this category. Otherwise, adventuring is just a character's decision.

Characteristics: The sentinel's features focus on battlefield control while protecting allies. She has high mobility and high utility. Even out of combat, the sentinel has several skills to act as a party face.

Alignment: More often than not, sentinels are good. However, their alignment isn't restricted by any means. The sentiment to protect others just runs more commonly in goodly personalities. Lawful alignments are also far more common than chaotic alignments among sentinels.

Religion: Sentinels often worship Syreth (goddess of guardians), Moradin (god of protection), Gaerdal Ironhand (god of vigilance), Arvoreen (god of war), Eachthighern (god of loyalty), or Syranita (goddess of watchfulness). Many other gods and goddesses in the same domains are also worshiped. Sentinels have diverse religious choices.

Background: Sentinels are a diverse group. A sentinel may have learned her craft from a master, or perhaps she just wishes to defend what's important to her. Many sentinels end up working as mercenaries or town guards. In the end, a sentinel is too difficult to pin down with a single label.

Races: Elves are extremely common sentinels, despite their natural frailty. Their awareness is unmatched and their need to rest is less than other races, allowing them to watch dutifully while the other races sleep. Dwarves and humans come next, also being fairly common. Dwarves especially, with their community sense, enjoy the ability to protect their allies. Halflings aren't uncommon sentinels. Their daring exploits often lead them to put themselves in bad situations to help others, something the sentinel encourages. Other races will occasionally become sentinels, though less so than the listed.

Other Classes: Paladins usually get along with sentinels fairly well as protectors of others. Fighters and barbarians can at least relate in combat. Clerics enjoy the extra support. Beyond that, any class enjoys some extra protection and damage, which the sentinel provides nicely.

Role: Sentinels fill the role of a tank and supporter. By dashing around the battlefield, intercepting damage for allies, the sentinel will take a lot of pressure off of that deadly but frail wizard or dangerously close rogue.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Sentinels have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Constitution allows the sentinel to soak more damage herself and for her allies, while Strength supplements her damage.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d12.
Starting Age: As fighter.
Starting Gold: 6d4x10 gp.

Class Skills
The sentinel's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Combat Training (Con) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10188056&postcount=23), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

SENTINEL


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special


1st
+0
+2
+0
+2
Rush (movement)


2nd
+1
+3
+0
+3
Aegis of the legion (damage), parry


3rd
+2
+3
+1
+3
Allied rush, bonus feat, mirrormail


4th
+3
+4
+1
+4
Battlefield awareness, ever vigilant


5th
+3
+4
+1
+4
Opposed rush, rush (damage), strong support


6th
+4
+5
+2
+5
Aegis of the legion (condition), bonus feat


7th
+5
+5
+2
+5
Rush counter, unshakable champion


8th
+6/+1
+6
+2
+6
Bull dash


9th
+6/+1
+6
+3
+6
Bonus feat, fast support, rush (supernatural)


10th
+7/+2
+7
+3
+7
Aegis of the legion (improved)


11th
+8/+3
+7
+3
+7
Bulwark rush


12th
+9/+4
+8
+4
+8
Bonus feat, double rush


13th
+9/+4
+8
+4
+8
Rush (distance)


14th
+10/+5
+9
+4
+9
Aegis of the legion (condition II)


15th
+11/+6/+1
+9
+5
+9
Bonus feat, status counter


16th
+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10
Death denial


17th
+12/+7/+2
+10
+5
+10
Rush (action)


18th
+13/+8/+3
+11
+6
+11
Aegis of the legion (boost), bonus feat


19th
+14/+9/+4
+11
+6
+11
Killing rush


20th
+15/+10/+5
+12
+6
+12
Infinity shield



Class Features
All of the following are class features of the sentinel.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sentinels are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (light, medium, and heavy) and shields (including tower shields).

Rush (Ex): Whenever an enemy moves, the sentinel may move 5 feet.

At 5th level, whenever an enemy deals damage, the sentinel may move 5 feet.

At 9th level, whenever an enemy performs a supernatural or magical action, the sentinel may move 5 feet.

At 13th level, whenever the sentinel rushes, she may move 10 feet instead of 5 feet.

At 17th level, whenever an enemy takes an action, the sentinel may move 10 feet.

Rush is an immediate action and requires enemies to be within 30 feet of the sentinel at the start of the given action. The sentinel may not rush when she is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC or is dazed. Movement from rush doesn't count toward the sentinel's movement limit per round.

Aegis of the Legion (Su): At 2nd level, a sentinel is able to defend all of her allies, regardless of her own position. Whenever the sentinel is within 30 feet of her allies, she can choose to negate an amount of damage equal to her Constitution modifier (minimum 1) whenever they are harmed and take half of the damage herself (if the divided number is odd, the larger number is given to the ally). The sentinel and ally each take a minimum of 1 damage.

At 6th level, the sentinel is able to protect her allies from more than damage. If any ally within range would be subject to a saving throw or be blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, or stunned, the sentinel can take the effect herself, making her own saving throw against the effect.

At 10th level, the sentinel can reduce the damage blocked with aegis of the legion by twice her Constitution modifier.

At 14th level, the sentinel is able to defend allies against ability damage, energy drain, fascination, and fear effects, applying the same rules as for the other status conditions she can defend against.

At 18th level, all damage allies deal is increased by Constitution modifier and all damage they receive is reduced by Constitution modifier. This is applied before aegis of the legion's damage negation.

Parry (Ex): A sentinel can parry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7561842&postcount=1) attacks exceptionally well, granting her the ability to parry (if the rule is not used) and the Improved Parry feat.

At 4th level, the sentinel can parry attacks against allies within 30 feet.

At 8th level, the sentinel can attempt to parry any effects aegis of the legion can protect allies against by making an attack roll against the saving throw.

Allied Rush (Ex): Whenever a sentinel rushes, she can direct one ally within 30 feet to do the same. Any concurrent effects of rush are only available to the sentinel, however. In other words, only movement is granted to the ally. If an ally does rush with the sentinel, that ally need not use an immediate action.

Bonus Feats: The sentinel gains bonus feats chosen from the fighter bonus feat list in addition to the following feats at 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level: Alertness, Diehard, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes.

Mirrormail (Ex): The sentinel can redirect blows as a mirror reflects light--effortlessly. Whenever an enemy deals damage to the sentinel, it takes Constitution modifier damage (minimum 1) after the damage is dealt. The type of damage dealt is the same type as dealt to the sentinel.

At 8th level, there is an opportunity any status effects that hit the sentinel will be reflected. Any time the sentinel would be affected by a status effect, she can attempt to "attack" the effect by making a normal attack roll. If the attack roll exceeds the DC of the saving throw, she sends it back to the origin. If she fails, she is subject to the effect immediately with no saving throw against it. If the effect doesn't allow for a saving throw, the sentinel may not reflect it.

Battlefield Awareness (Ex): The sentinel is trained to survey the battlefield and assess threats constantly. The sentinel can sense hiding and invisible enemies as if she had a limited form of scent (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#scent), though it's really just her keen senses and training at hard work. Treat this as scent, except all ranges are halved.

Ever Vigilant (Ex): At 4th level, a sentinel becomes better at seeing danger before it comes. She has a 50% chance of avoiding being caught off guard in a surprise round.

At 8th level, a sentinel is always able to act in a surprise round.

Opposed Rush (Ex): At 5th level, the sentinel can force an enemy within 30 feet to rush with her. A Will saving throw of DC 10 + 1/2 class levels + Con modifier negates this effect, though the sentinel is still allowed to rush as normal.

Strong Support: Whenever a sentinel performs the aid another action, the bonus gained is +4 instead of +2. As well, the sentinel can aid another from aegis of the legion range.

At 10th level, and at every fifth level after (15th, 20th), the bonus further increases by 2.

Rush Counter (Ex): At 7th level, when the sentinel rushes, she can attack a single enemy within range.

Unshakable Champion (Ex): The sentinel's defenses are impenetrable. She gains an insight bonus on saving throws against all status conditions equal to 1/2 her Constitution modifier (minimum 1). In addition, all allies within 30 feet gain the same insight bonus.

Bull Dash (Ex): At 8th level, when the sentinel rushes, she can instead opt to bull rush an enemy within rushing range. This bull rush works exactly as normal (including distance traveled), but takes place as an immediate action. The sentinel effectively replaces her rush this round with a normal bull rush.

Fast Support (Ex): At 9th level, aiding another requires only a swift action.

Bulwark Rush (Ex): At 11th level, when the sentinel has the option to rush, she can opt out of the movement to grant an ally within 30 feet a bonus to AC and saving throws equal to her Constitution modifier for 1 round.

Double Rush (Ex): At 12th level, the sentinel can rush twice in one round. This effectively makes the first rush each round require no action.

Status Counter (Ex): At 15th level, any status effects the sentinel suffers from may be applied to an enemy she attacks with rush counter. The target can make a Will saving throw of DC 10 + 1/2 class levels + Con modifier to avoid the effects, though even if the save succeeds, the sentinel cleanses herself of the given effects.

Death Denial (Ex): At 16th level, if any ally would take damage that would reduce them to 0 hit points or less, the sentinel can block all damage with aegis of the legion and take it herself. This bypasses the limit presented by the sentinel's Constitution modifier. The sentinel cannot die from massive damage this way--only from being reduced to -10 hit points.

Killing Rush (Ex): At 19th level, when the sentinel rush counters, she has a 50% chance to instantly reduce the target's hit points to 0. This is considered a death effect, despite it not killing the target.

Infinity Shield (Ex): At the peak of her power, a sentinel is capable of saving allies from even the most dangerous foes. Once per encounter, the sentinel can completely negate any attack, spell, or other negative effect on any ally or allies within aegis of the legion range. In addition, all effects that would have been suffered are redirected upon every enemy within 60 feet of the sentinel.

bobthe6th
2012-05-08, 06:20 PM
damn my 17 year old mind but(looks closly), that armor totally has tits, just saying...

now for actual comment... seems interesting. It lacks any glaringly offensive abilities(either meaning). It seems to actually be a meat shield. But I think it needs some way to deal with tumble, as that could be a massive problem. also, I would say it needs something to avoid the silly THW+animated shield bash combo.

still a fine class, that I want to gesalt with the shield so bad...

Istari
2012-05-08, 06:44 PM
Like the class though its MADness worries me. You need a good Dex/Cha for your class abilites, Con to tank and Str to deal decent damage. Though it certainly seems like it could be a very good tank.

Temotei
2012-05-08, 07:44 PM
damn my 17 year old mind but(looks closly), that armor totally has tits, just saying...

Sorry. Or you're welcome. :smallwink:


now for actual comment... seems interesting. It lacks any glaringly offensive abilities(either meaning). It seems to actually be a meat shield. But I think it needs some way to deal with tumble, as that could be a massive problem. also, I would say it needs something to avoid the silly THW+animated shield bash combo.

While the class lacks overtly offensive abilities, that's not the point of it. The sentinel is primarily a defensive class. Offensive ability is necessary, however, which is why thornmail, bull dash, rush counter, and checking blast are included. Remember that thornmail does damage whenever an enemy deals damage to the sentinel--even if it's indirectly, such as through aegis of the legion.

I left the class open to use shields or not since I don't like shoehorning a single equipment choice on base classes.

Lastly, Tumble isn't really a problem since the sentinel can still rush when tumblers move around and she can still take any damage they would deal from allies, unless you mean in another way.


Like the class though its MADness worries me. You need a good Dex/Cha for your class abilites, Con to tank and Str to deal decent damage. Though it certainly seems like it could be a very good tank.

I'm personally pretty highly against MAD classes, but in this case, Strength can be foregone if needed, since Dexterity does a lot of the damage the sentinel will be dishing out via thornmail. That leaves three, which is still decently needy, but doable, usually.

In another way, the ability dependency of the class balances its many abilities which make it very hard to kill the party, let alone the sentinel.

arguskos
2012-05-10, 03:43 PM
Showing up for duty, as requested.



Sentinel

http://i.imgur.com/jbW0Fl.jpg
A true sentinel doesn't let fear get in the way of defending anyone, including herself.
-- Fiona Fairland, sentinel
It's a picture, I guess.


Defense is important for all, but none feel it as their calling such as the sentinel does. The sentinel is one of the few who develop their defensive skills so deeply that she can make them offensive measures as well, making the sentinel a dangerous opponent, indeed.
Better include legit offensive measures. Too often I see people make classes that read "You will never die" and then completely forget to make them useful when attacking. Let's see how you did.


Adventures: Many sentinels set out to defend the world from whatever they feel is wrong or bad; injustice, tyranny, evil, or whatever all might fit in this category. Otherwise, adventuring is just a character's decision.

Characteristics: The sentinel's features focus on battlefield control while protecting allies. She has high mobility and high utility. Even out of combat, the sentinel may act as the party face, since Charisma is fairly important to her.

Alignment: More often than not, sentinels are good. However, their alignment isn't restricted by any means. The sentiment to protect others just runs more commonly in goodly personalities. Lawful alignments are also far more common than chaotic alignments among sentinels.

Religion: Sentinels often worship Syreth (goddess of guardians), Moradin (god of protection), Gaerdal Ironhand (god of vigilance), Arvoreen (god of war), Eachthighern (god of loyalty), or Syranita (goddess of watchfulness). Many other gods and goddesses in the same domains are also worshiped. Sentinels have diverse religious choices.

Background: Sentinels are a diverse group. A sentinel may have learned her craft from a master, or perhaps she just wishes to defend what's important to her. Many sentinels end up working as mercenaries or town guards. In the end, a sentinel is too difficult to pin down with a single label.

Races: Elves are extremely common sentinels, despite their natural frailty. Their awareness is unmatched and their need to rest is less than other races, allowing them to watch dutifully while the other races sleep. Dwarves and humans come next, also being fairly common. Dwarves especially, with their community sense, enjoy the ability to protect their allies. Halflings aren't uncommon sentinels. Their daring exploits often lead them to put themselves in bad situations to help others, something the sentinel encourages. Other races will occasionally become sentinels, though less so than the listed.

Other Classes: Paladins usually get along with sentinels fairly well as protectors of others. Fighters and barbarians can at least relate in combat. Clerics enjoy the extra support. Beyond that, any class enjoys some extra protection and damage, which the sentinel provides nicely.
Seems all fine and whatever.


Role: Sentinels fill the role of a tank and supporter. By dashing around the battlefield, intercepting damage for allies, the sentinel will take a lot of pressure off of that deadly but frail wizard or dangerously close rogue.
Interception-based defense? Curious, but let's see how it goes.


GAME RULE INFORMATION
Game rule information? I love game rule information! :smalltongue:


Sentinels have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Constitution allows the sentinel to soak more damage herself and for her allies. Dexterity allows her to move around the battlefield to cover her allies more effectively. Charisma is of some benefit as well, allowing the sentinel to lead her teammates into battle.
Hmm. Honestly, I'm not seeing the guy taking all of the attacks as being the leader role. Doesn't make much thematic sense. Or perhaps, more appropriately, it doesn't seem to lend itself to a wide variety of characters. Still, this is a minor quibble.


Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10.
Starting Age: As fighter.
Starting Gold: 6d4x10 gp.
This isn't. Why does the class that is BUILT AROUND TAKING DAMAGE HAVE A D10 HD? :smallyuk:

Temotei, you know better than this. Give them the coveted d12 please. This is quite literally the class made to have d12 HD.


Class Skills
The sentinel's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier
Eh, boring, but fine. Might like to see the Sentinel gain Combat Training (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10188056&postcount=23), not that I like to pimp my own work or anything. :smalltongue:


SENTINEL
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+0|+2|+0|+2|Rush (movement)
2nd|+1|+3|+0|+3|Aegis of the legion
3rd|+2|+3|+1|+3|Bonus feat, thornmail
4th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Ever vigilant, battlefield awareness
5th|+3|+4|+1|+4|Rush (damage)
6th|+4|+5|+2|+5|Aegis of the legion, bonus feat
7th|+5|+5|+2|+5|Dauntless champion
8th|+6/+1|+6|+2|+6|Bull dash
9th|+6/+1|+6|+3|+6|Bonus feat, rush (supernatural)
10th|+7/+2|+7|+3|+7|Aegis of the legion
11th|+8/+3|+7|+3|+7|Rush counter
12th|+9/+4|+8|+4|+8|Bonus feat, defense call
13th|+9/+4|+8|+4|+8|Improved rush, strong supporter
14th|+10/+5|+9|+4|+9|Aegis of the legion
15th|+11/+6/+1|+9|+5|+9|Bonus feat
16th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Death denial
17th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Rush (action)
18th|+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Aegis of the legion, bonus feat
19th|+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Checking blast
20th|+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Infinity shield[/table]
It appears you can Aegis of the Legion a grand total of... five times.

Again, you know better than that Temotei. Hell, you even did it right with Rush. Give a one-word description saying what each iteration of Aegis of the Legion gives/does/whatever, just to break up the table a little. Also, I see at one level that ONLY gets a bonus feat. That's at level 15 too. Come on dude, you're killing me here!


Class Features
All of the following are class features of the sentinel.
I am a big fan of class features.


Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sentinels are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (light, medium, and heavy) and shields (including tower shields).
Weapons are cool. Same with armor and shields.

Notable that they get tower shield prof for free.


Rush (Ex): Whenever an enemy moves, the sentinel may move 5 feet.

At 5th level, whenever an enemy deals damage, the sentinel may move 5 feet.

At 9th level, whenever an enemy performs a supernatural or magical action, the sentinel may move 5 feet.

At 13th level, whenever the sentinel rushes, she may move 10 feet instead of 5 feet.

At 17th level, whenever an enemy takes an action, the sentinel may move 10 feet.
What action is Rush? My gut wants to call this an immediate action, since I really dislike the idea of a sentinel bouncing all over the damn place constantly every turn. That doesn't say "Sentinel" so much as "Speedball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedball_(comics))", which I highly doubt is the image you wanted to portray here.

Otherwise, it seems fine. Doesn't do much, but that's fine for an early ability.


All rushes require enemies to be within 15 + Dex modifier x 5 feet of the sentinel at the start of the given action. A sentinel may only rush a number of times equal to her Dex modifier in a single round (minimum 1). The sentinel may not rush when she is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC or is dazed. Movement from rush doesn't count toward the sentinel's movement limit per round.
Yeah, ok, I reaaaaally don't like having X/round limitations. It's too meh. They're not a bouncing superhero, they're warriors. Let 'em rush as an immediate action (and give them a high-level rush that lets them double rush, I guess).


Aegis of the Legion (Su): At 2nd level, a sentinel is able to defend all of her allies, regardless of her own position. Whenever the sentinel is within 15 + Cha modifier x 5 feet of her allies, she can choose to negate an amount of damage equal to her Constitution modifier whenever they are harmed and take half of the damage herself.
So... a permanent Shield Other with a range limit and with no lower bound on the damage? Here, let's try something. Make it based on Con mod and give it a lower bound of damage (each person takes min one damage; if it divides unevenly, the original target takes the extra).


At 6th level, the sentinel is able to protect her allies from more than damage. If any ally within range would be subject to a saving throw or be blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, or stunned, the sentinel can take the effect herself, making her own saving throw against the effect.
Perhaps, instead of getting a second save (because this quite literally says "the entire party gets two saves against everything" which isn't really balanced), this could say that if they FAIL the save, the Sentinel can take it instead.


At 10th level, the sentinel can reduce damage by twice her Constitution modifier.
...So, they gain DR X/-, where X=2xCon mod?


At 14th level, the sentinel is able to defend allies against ability damage, energy drain, fascination, and fear effects, applying the same rules as for the other status conditions she can defend against.
Same concern arises.


At 18th level, all damage allies deal is increased by Cha modifier and all damage they receive is reduced by Cha modifier.
Why Cha? Make this Con.

Also, why the damage BOOST to allies? Not seeing the reasoning here. Not saying it's bad, just asking why.

Finally, does this apply to spell damage? What about multi-target effects (e.g. magic missile)?


Thornmail: At 3rd level, the sentinel can redirect blows so efficiently that it seems as if she is protected by the sharpest thorns. Whenever an enemy deals damage to the sentinel, it takes Dex modifier damage (minimum 1).
Seems fine. Make a note on when this damage happens: before or after the enemy's damage is dealt.


Bonus Feats: The sentinel gains bonus feats from the fighter bonus feat list in addition to the following feats at 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th level: Alertness, Diehard, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Shield Bash, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes.
Good god, it's full of boring! :smalltongue:


Ever Vigilant (Ex): At 4th level, a sentinel becomes better at seeing danger before it comes. She has a 50% chance of avoiding being caught off guard in a surprise round.
This one is actually cool. I approve.


At 8th level, a sentinel is always able to act in a surprise round.
And again!


Battlefield Awareness (Ex): The sentinel is trained to survey the battlefield and assess threats constantly. The sentinel can sense hiding and invisible enemies as if she had a limited form of scent, though it's really just her keen senses and training at hard work. Treat this as scent, except all ranges are halved.
Please link to Scent. This isn't the freaking Dark Ages, we can actually link to stuff that's online. :smalltongue:


Dauntless Champion (Ex): At 7th level, the sentinel gains an insight bonus on saving throws against fear effects equal to her Charisma modifier. In addition, all allies who are within 15 + Cha modifier x 5 feet of the sentinel gain an equivalent insight bonus on saving throws against fear.
Ok, we're into the realm of "this is not a value-add". The range is flavorful and meshes well with other abilities thematically, but just doesn't make any damn sense. Make it 30 ft like the rest of D&D and call it done.

Also, I'm reaaaaaaally feeling Con>Cha here. Just sayin'.


Bull Dash (Ex): At 8th level, when the sentinel rushes, she can bull rush an opponent.
This is waaaaaay too vague. Instead, try this:

"Bull Dash (Ex): At 8th level, when the sentinel rushes, she can instead opt to bull rush a near-by enemy. This bull rush works exactly as normal (including distance traveled), but takes place as an immediate action. Functionally, the sentinel replaces their rush this round with a normal bull rush."


Rush Counter (Ex): At 11th level, when the sentinel rushes, she can attack a single enemy within attacking range.
Change it to just say range.


Defense Call (Ex): At 12th level, the sentinel can call out to allies as a standard action, granting them a morale bonus to AC equal to her Cha modifier (minimum 1) for 3 rounds. In addition, aegis of the legion's range is increased for the duration of the encounter.
1. I... would rather see more rushing-based stuff here, especially some solid offensive ability.

2. How much does Aegis of the Legion's range increase by?


Improved Rush (Ex): At 13th level, the sentinel's rush feature allows her to move 10 feet every time she rushes.
This... already is in the rush ability...?


Strong Support: Whenever a sentinel performs the aid another action, the bonus gained is +3 instead of +2. As well, the sentinel can aid another from aegis of the legion range.
This is... boring, but functional.


Death Denial (Ex): At 16th level, a sentinel cannot die from massive damage and any attack that would reduce her to 0 hit points or less does half damage. Upon reaching -9 hit points, she automatically stabilizes.
This is bad, but works.


Checking Blast (Su): At 19th level, the sentinel is able to shout at enemies as a standard action. Every enemy within aegis of the legion range is blown away, as if by a strong wind, from the sentinel, being pushed back the appropriate distance and taking damage as such.
This is also bad, but functional. At level 19, no one is going to care about this. Make it POWERFUL. This is level NINETEEN. Make your attacks terrifying.


Infinity Shield (Ex): At the peak of her power, a sentinel is capable of saving allies from even the most dangerous foes. Once per encounter, the sentinel can completely negate any attack, spell, or other negative effect on any ally or allies within aegis of the legion range.
Ok, for your reference, I have a melee class called the Shadow that can negate attacks targeted at them at level 3. This is not a super-powered ability. It's 1/encounter, it doesn't actually DO much, and doesn't let the sentinel win or do anything other than not die. Mages laugh, fighters laugh, everyone laughs, except the sentinel, because he's dead from the second salvo of attacks/spells/rocks/whatevers.

Overall: I like the idea Temotei, but it's just not functional. You have no offense, minor special abilities, and a bizarre MAD thing going on that just doesn't make much sense. My suggestion is a full rework, focusing entirely on Aegis and Rush, both of which are neat mechanics and well-worth exploring further. Don't be afraid to give it some punch. Remember: this has to be able to fight with ToB-style classes (or Binders/Warlocks/Barbarians etc) at level 20 on a roughly even footing, meaning it has to be able to fight. Right now, it has meh combat abilities and just doesn't die for a little longer than other people. That's... unimpressive.

tl;dr: Rush/Aegis are cool, make them cooler. Cut the chaff abilities and make the fun ones funner.

Spiryt
2012-05-10, 04:07 PM
Thornmail: At 3rd level, the sentinel can redirect blows so efficiently that it seems as if she is protected by the sharpest thorns. Whenever an enemy deals damage to the sentinel, it takes Dex modifier damage (minimum 1).



Well, could use clarification - what kind of damage it is, and how it exactly works - I mean, going by "redirecting" and "thorns" I would guess that it should work in melee only....

Anyway, Dex mod as damage doesn't seem right either, decent at very low levels but later.... Even if someone goes crazy and puts his Dexterity at 58 20-something damage is not really impressive...

In any case, needs clarifying about type etc. - so how would it react to DR, immunities etc.




Strong Support: Whenever a sentinel performs the aid another action, the bonus gained is +3 instead of +2. As well, the sentinel can aid another from aegis of the legion range.

Can be wrong, but I don't think anyone really bothers with Aid Another at 13th level...


[
Checking Blast (Su): At 19th level, the sentinel is able to shout at enemies as a standard action. Every enemy within aegis of the legion range is blown away, as if by a strong wind, from the sentinel, being pushed back the appropriate distance and taking damage as such.


This is rather weird as far as fluff goes, don't think that all players would care about their mighty, 19th level champion being able to 'yell real loud'...

And statistically it's pretty damn weak to, so can't see a point, really.

Temotei
2012-05-10, 04:15 PM
It's a picture, I guess.

Yeah, I couldn't find one. I'll hopefully find a better one soon.


Game rule information? I love game rule information! :smalltongue:

Oh, you.


This isn't. Why does the class that is BUILT AROUND TAKING DAMAGE HAVE A D10 HD? :smallyuk:

Temotei, you know better than this. Give them the coveted d12 please. This is quite literally the class made to have d12 HD.

Derp. It's been a while. I'll definitely change that.


Eh, boring, but fine. Might like to see the Sentinel gain Combat Training (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10188056&postcount=23), not that I like to pimp my own work or anything. :smalltongue:

Hmm. I like it. I might have to do that.


Again, you know better than that Temotei. Hell, you even did it right with Rush. Give a one-word description saying what each iteration of Aegis of the Legion gives/does/whatever, just to break up the table a little. Also, I see at one level that ONLY gets a bonus feat. That's at level 15 too. Come on dude, you're killing me here!

Fair enough. It's been a long time since I've made a class, so little beginner mistakes are creeping into the work. I'll fix that.


What action is Rush? My gut wants to call this an immediate action, since I really dislike the idea of a sentinel bouncing all over the damn place constantly every turn. That doesn't say "Sentinel" so much as "Speedball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedball_(comics))", which I highly doubt is the image you wanted to portray here.

Otherwise, it seems fine. Doesn't do much, but that's fine for an early ability.

Yeah, ok, I reaaaaally don't like having X/round limitations. It's too meh. They're not a bouncing superhero, they're warriors. Let 'em rush as an immediate action (and give them a high-level rush that lets them double rush, I guess).

After going over it again, I agree with you on this. The potential movement is way too high for a heavily armored person's own good. I'll redo the ability.


So... a permanent Shield Other with a range limit and with no lower bound on the damage? Here, let's try something. Make it based on Con mod and give it a lower bound of damage (each person takes min one damage; if it divides unevenly, the original target takes the extra).




Perhaps, instead of getting a second save (because this quite literally says "the entire party gets two saves against everything" which isn't really balanced), this could say that if they FAIL the save, the Sentinel can take it instead.

Ah, but you'll notice that it says if any "ally...would be subject to a saving throw" the sentinel can take the saving throw instead. Effectively, before the ally is even subject to the roll, the sentinel takes the status condition to herself.


...So, they gain DR X/-, where X=2xCon mod?

Unclear wording. It raises the damage the sentinel can block with aegis of the legion.


Why Cha? Make this Con.

Also, why the damage BOOST to allies? Not seeing the reasoning here. Not saying it's bad, just asking why.

Finally, does this apply to spell damage? What about multi-target effects (e.g. magic missile)?

Looking back, the previous comment about being MAD makes more sense. I was tired when I posted last time, so I guess I was more defensive. Now I'm just resigned. Bleh.

The damage boost was a flavor-filler and something to increase the utility of the class and overall damage, as well, though not directly.

As for spell damage, I'm not sure. I think I'd allow it.


Seems fine. Make a note on when this damage happens: before or after the enemy's damage is dealt.

Fair enough.


Good god, it's full of boring! :smalltongue:

I guess it deserves that. :smallredface:


This one is actually cool. I approve.

And again!

Ooh.


Please link to Scent. This isn't the freaking Dark Ages, we can actually link to stuff that's online. :smalltongue:

Yeah, but D&D was originally set in a fantasy world without...yeah, I'll do that.


Ok, we're into the realm of "this is not a value-add". The range is flavorful and meshes well with other abilities thematically, but just doesn't make any damn sense. Make it 30 ft like the rest of D&D and call it done.

Also, I'm reaaaaaaally feeling Con>Cha here. Just sayin'.

A'ight.


This is waaaaaay too vague. Instead, try this:

"Bull Dash (Ex): At 8th level, when the sentinel rushes, she can instead opt to bull rush a near-by enemy. This bull rush works exactly as normal (including distance traveled), but takes place as an immediate action. Functionally, the sentinel replaces their rush this round with a normal bull rush."

I'm having a hard time believing I wrote that. Geez. I'll certainly fix that.


Change it to just say range.

Yeah.


1. I... would rather see more rushing-based stuff here, especially some solid offensive ability.

2. How much does Aegis of the Legion's range increase by?

Hmm...yeah. Agreed. Also, the range increase was something I forgot to fill in. I had it and then didn't like it and then redid it and forgot the range on that iteration.


This... already is in the rush ability...?

Derp. Sleeping at my desk. It's been finals week.


This is... boring, but functional.

This is bad, but works.

This is also bad, but functional. At level 19, no one is going to care about this. Make it POWERFUL. This is level NINETEEN. Make your attacks terrifying.

You're right.


Ok, for your reference, I have a melee class called the Shadow that can negate attacks targeted at them at level 3. This is not a super-powered ability. It's 1/encounter, it doesn't actually DO much, and doesn't let the sentinel win or do anything other than not die. Mages laugh, fighters laugh, everyone laughs, except the sentinel, because he's dead from the second salvo of attacks/spells/rocks/whatevers.

Gah. You're right again.


Overall: I like the idea Temotei, but it's just not functional. You have no offense, minor special abilities, and a bizarre MAD thing going on that just doesn't make much sense. My suggestion is a full rework, focusing entirely on Aegis and Rush, both of which are neat mechanics and well-worth exploring further. Don't be afraid to give it some punch. Remember: this has to be able to fight with ToB-style classes (or Binders/Warlocks/Barbarians etc) at level 20 on a roughly even footing, meaning it has to be able to fight. Right now, it has meh combat abilities and just doesn't die for a little longer than other people. That's... unimpressive.

tl;dr: Rush/Aegis are cool, make them cooler. Cut the chaff abilities and make the fun ones funner.

This makes sense.

Considering I did this in a few hours, I guess I churned out something worth working on, at least. I'm glad you did this. Definitely going to like it more now. Thanks much. I'll start work immediately.

EDIT: Apologies to Istari. I feel like I brushed your MAD comment aside. Anyway, you were right, blah blah. :smalltongue:

arguskos
2012-05-10, 04:27 PM
Considering I did this in a few hours, I guess I churned out something worth working on, at least. I'm glad you did this. Definitely going to like it more now. Thanks much. I'll start work immediately.
Well, like I said, there's definitely something to be had here, but what it's composed of is an excellent question. I wouldn't say that the core concept is bad. In fact, I quite like Rush and Aegis as ideas (though the bizarro range thing bugs me, but it's so minor I can't be bothered to bitch about it :smalltongue:) and feel that they can and perhaps should be fleshed out into something greater then they currently are.

Just my 2cp, as it were. Don't take it too seriously, you know me. :smallwink:

zegram 33
2012-05-10, 06:07 PM
as possibly an ACF for what arguskos suggested... with some of the abilities and fluff, especially the boosts to damage, is was getting the impression this was meant to be a full-on party leader class, you could follow the party attack and defense as buffs for a whole sequence.

as for the actual class itself...what about a parrying type mechanic?
say... "when an enemy attacks while you threaten them (even if they're attacking you) you can use an attack of opportunity to make an opposed atack roll against them. If your is stronger, their attack is negated and you get to attack/bull rush/trip/whatever them with the roll you made." but more...you know...eloquent.
it's a mechanic thats shown up in a few classes, but i think it would really fit here, to reward you for using rush to close right up to the enemy, and then get a fairly solid attacking ability as well?

maybe make it some kind o "your defensive abilty opposing there attack ability instead, since this guy isnt the strongest guy around...maybe the attack is redirected to you, and if they fail to deal damage it triggers, or something?

i dunno, im pretty much just throwing idea's out there for you to browse over, haha:smallbiggrin:

Temotei
2012-05-10, 06:12 PM
Alright, I'll address the other comments soon. I changed a bunch of things just now, but I've got stuff to do. I'll work on it later. Thanks, guys. :smallsmile:

arguskos
2012-05-10, 07:15 PM
as for the actual class itself...what about a parrying type mechanic?
say... "when an enemy attacks while you threaten them (even if they're attacking you) you can use an attack of opportunity to make an opposed atack roll against them. If your is stronger, their attack is negated and you get to attack/bull rush/trip/whatever them with the roll you made." but more...you know...eloquent.
it's a mechanic thats shown up in a few classes, but i think it would really fit here, to reward you for using rush to close right up to the enemy, and then get a fairly solid attacking ability as well?
Actually, if you want an excellent Parry mechanic, there already is one on these very forums! Check it out! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136100) I actually wanted to suggest this to ya as well, Temotei, but couldn't find a good segue into it. This feels EXACTLY like the sort of class where Parry would be awesome.

Also, I see more of what you're doing with your edits. I'll wait for the official "GO MAKE COMMENTS AUUUUGH", but so far, I like what I see. I might even like to see something where a Sentinel can take status effects applied to them and, when making a Rush Attack (man, every time I write rush for this class I think of Rush Linbaugh and get all "uuuugh") apply that status to the target. It'd be a great way to turn defense into offense without being boring like a damage boost (though a damage boost could be effective if "second verse, same as the first").

Just a thought. Feel free to steal at your whim. :smallwink:

Temotei
2012-06-07, 01:22 AM
I think I've changed everything for now.

I added parry at 2nd level, with additional benefits at higher levels.

Mirrormail has an additional benefit later on.

Status counter was added at 15th level.

Don't know if any of you saw this, since it was a while ago, but after the comments by a bit, but I changed killing rush to reduce hit points to 0.

Table was fixed up a bit and fixed a typo from a previous draft.

EDIT: Also, image changed because I couldn't stand the other one.

I feel like I've missed something or that something else could be added or taken out and replaced, but I'm not sure. Tell me what you think.