Any soccer fans here?

[JadePhoenix]

Hey, playground. I was wondering - is anyone into soccer here?
I'm brazilian, and as most brazilians, I'm a soccer fan. :smallsmile: Anyone else?

[Aedilred]

I don't really follow club-level football (I can keep abreast of who's top of the league, but I don't have a particular team I support, and don't keep track of the results week to week) but I love a good international tournament.

[JadePhoenix]

I don't really follow club-level football (I can keep abreast of who's top of the league, but I don't have a particular team I support, and don't keep track of the results week to week) but I love a good international tournament.

You mean international as in World Cup or as in Copa Libertadores?

[The Succubus]

Soccer? What is this "soccer" you speak of?

(Sorry, as an English, I sometimes get a little tetchy when people refer to football by its trans-atlantic name :smallwink:). For me, football only really matters on two levels - my local team (which was Aldershot before I moved to London) and the walking disaster otherwise known as the English team.

One tends to have a lot more success on the pitch than the other. :smallwink:

[Spiryt]

In before "soccer vs football".

Anyway, I watch stuff occasionally and it was about only sport I was pretty good at when younger.

[Aedilred]

You mean international as in World Cup or as in Copa Libertadores?
I can get more excited about the international club comepetitions (like the Cope Libertadores or the UEFA Champions' League) than about domestic ones but it's something I'd watch when bored or in company rather than something I'd make a point of doing. It's all about matches between international teams for me.

I've given up on England, though. A number of years ago I realised that I found English football pretty stultifying by world standards and that if it weren't for my affection for some of the players as individuals and a sort of residual patriotism I wouldn't have any time for them at all. Since then it hasn't got any better. The tipping-point came in 2004 when England played a friendly against Spain and I realised that I'd rather Spain won.

So I became a Spain fan first and foremost. That turned out to be quite a good decision with the benefit of hindsight :smallcool: (although before 2008 it was every bit as agonising as being an England fan).

[Ricky S]

Huge soccer fan! I loathe to call it soccer but everyone else in Australia thinks football is rugby. Sigh.

I only really follow teams during the world cup. I used to follow Fulham religiously when I lived in england, but I have no idea how they are going at the moment. I would imagine about the same as they used to (Ie awfully).

[ForzaFiori]

I'm a huge fan, but I don't get to watch it much, since if I wanna see a good game I have to stream it from the net, and even MLS barely gets onto TV. I do try to keep up with who's winning and whatnot though. I don't really pull for anyone at a club level, but in the Cup I go for Italy's men's team and the American women's team (i'd pull for the American men, but what good would it do?).

[JadePhoenix]

Brazilian soccer is improving at club level, which is good.
Barcelona is not king of the hill over everyone else anymore, which is even better.

Have you guys seen Santos 8-0 game yesterday (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDHPf9azjvc)? This Neymar kid is crazy good (even though he is crazy ugly as well).

Of course, Fluminense still has the best team in America.

[pffh]

I mostly watch matches when the World Cup or the European Cup are on but I do have a soft spot for Manchester United.

[JadePhoenix]

I mostly watch matches when the World Cup or the European Cup are on but I do have a soft spot for Manchester United.

I had a thing for Manchester while Cristiano Ronaldo was there. :smallwink:

[polity4life]

I would say I'm a casual fan who watches any league he can but with no horse in the race, so to speak. I'm also very disappointed that my country's team did not qualify for the Olympics. :smallfrown:

[Aedilred]

I had a thing for Manchester while Cristiano Ronaldo was there. :smallwink:
I've never forgiven Cristiano Ronaldo for the final of the Euros in 2004. I was supporting Portugal in the final against Greece (who had knocked out all the other teams I'd been supporting, and were terrible). I lost count of the number of times that Ronaldo beat the last man and then, rather than passing to a team-mate, ballooned the ball wide or over the bar. It was a horror show, and in a tight game his selfish incompetence was probably the deciding factor.

He's improved a lot as a player since then, and has learned how to find the goal, but he still oozes smug self-satisfaction from every pore and still embodies the diving, cry-baby culture that gives continental teams a bad name in England. I don't think foreign players dive any more than English ones for the most part, but Ronaldo seems to dive more than enough for anybody, and his ability to summon tears on cue is positively Qarthene. He also has an astonishing ability to whinge.

Oh, and then there was that business with the wink in the 2006 WC. It was quite entertaining watching the whole of England explode with outrage when I'd been quietly hating the guy for two years.

Really, I'm quite glad he no longer plays in England so I'm not reminded of his existence all that often.

[Raistlin1040]

We're all clear that the English are the ones who started calling it Soccer right? You know, Association Football (separate from Rugby Football), shortened to Soccer (from asSOCiation). We good with that?

Alright.

I'm a Liverpool supporter first and foremost, and then Seattle Sounders second. I don't really have a favorite international team. It depends on who is playing at any given time. I always ish root for the USA, but they never do that well. I might support England for the Euros if Johnson, Gerrard, and Carroll play and EBJT doesn't, but I'll probably be pulling for either Netherlands or Germany.

@Ricky S: Fulham is doing alright this season. They're top 10, mostly because Dembele and Clint Dempsey are having crazy seasons (although at least one of them is probably going to leave over the summer).

[Klose_the_Sith]

I used to follow Fulham in the EPL, Werder Bremen in Bundesliga, Botofogo in the Brazillian League (can't remember its name), Juventus in the Serie-A and Central Coast in the A-League.

Over the years that's been cut down to only following Werder Bremen - and that's only done by an app on my smartphone. I will always watch a tournament that my beloved Germany is playing in, though.

(It was the best thing ever when they thrashed Australia in South Africa. That made my year :smallbiggrin:)

[Raistlin1040]

Manchester City won the title!

Everything is beautiful and nothing hurts except for Liverpool's 8th place finish which does kind of sting but at least Stewart Downing set some kind of record with 0 goals and 0 assists in league all season as a winger.

[Morph Bark]

Not too big on soccer (football) myself unless it's the World Cup. :P

I have recently given soccer training to a team of autistic kids though, and next week we're having a national tournament with some more teams of autistic kids. They're incredibly enthousiastic!

[JadePhoenix]

Not too big on soccer (football) myself unless it's the World Cup. :P

I have recently given soccer training to a team of autistic kids though, and next week we're having a national tournament with some more teams of autistic kids. They're incredibly enthousiastic!

That sounds amazing! :smallsmile:

Fluminense won Rio de Janeiro's championship today, yay!

[GolemsVoice]

Not a huge soccer/football enthusiast, but when Germany plays during European or World Championships, I'll watch it with my friends, and I really enjoy it, strangely.


Was ist grün und stinkt nach Fisch? Werder Bremen ;-)

[Androgeus]

Manchester City won the title!

Everything is beautiful and nothing hurts except for Liverpool's 8th place finish which does kind of sting but at least Stewart Downing set some kind of record with 0 goals and 0 assists in league all season as a winger.

Nah, Liverpool's finish is perfect. *totally doesn't support a certain blue team*

[Raistlin1040]

Oh you.

At least we're in Europe next year.

[dehro]

I'm relatively interested in it..as in "have to keep up with the news for small talk purposes with the buyers I work with".. and I follow the international tournaments where my loyalty is divided between Holland and Italy, in that order if they happen to both compete. as for local teams..that would have to be A.C. Milan, again because I moved to Italy roughly at the same time that the club hired Rijkaard, Gullit and Van Basten and I was never a die hard Ajax fan.
I am not really massively into football though.

I'm sure I once saw a side by side comparison between a football player and a nfl football player plying their respective crafts..with big arrows pointing in the first picture towards the foot..and the round ball.. and in the second towards the hand and the squeezy oblong thing you american weirdos keep calling ball.
appropriately, the arrows were labelled by the name of what they were pointing at...and a big cross cancelled out the word soccer from the heading of the comparison

shame I can't find it anymore

[JadePhoenix]

I'm sure I once saw a side by side comparison between a football player and a nfl football player plying their respective crafts..with big arrows pointing in the first picture towards the foot..and the round ball.. and in the second towards the hand and the squeezy oblong thing you american weirdos keep calling ball.
appropriately, the arrows were labelled by the name of what they were pointing at...and a big cross cancelled out the word soccer from the heading of the comparison

shame I can't find it anymore

ooooh I must see that!

[Androgeus]

I'm sure I once saw a side by side comparison between a football player and a nfl football player plying their respective crafts..with big arrows pointing in the first picture towards the foot..and the round ball.. and in the second towards the hand and the squeezy oblong thing you american weirdos keep calling ball.
appropriately, the arrows were labelled by the name of what they were pointing at...and a big cross cancelled out the word soccer from the heading of the comparison

shame I can't find it anymore

This? well it gets the ball thing atleast
http://i.eatliver.com/2009/3849.jpg

[Killer Angel]

Oohhh.. i was missing this thread!

Yep, once (20 years ago) I was massively into football. And by "massively" I mean I was an ultras (hooligan, if you prefere). It lasted quickly... It was good 'til the singing part at the stadium and the verbal insults, but I'm not a violent guy, so I abandoned them.
After a few years, my passion cooled down, and now I enjoy the thing without drama.



Barcelona is not king of the hill over everyone else anymore, which is even better.

Two years ago we won the Champions league, beating Barcelona 3-1 and then Bayern in the final. :smallbiggrin:


This? well it gets the ball thing atleast
http://i.eatliver.com/2009/3849.jpg

This made my day. :smallbiggrin:

[dehro]

This? well it gets the ball thing atleast
http://i.eatliver.com/2009/3849.jpg

that's the ticket..

I bow to your superior google-fu.

[Zherog]

I'm a season ticket holder for the local MLS team (Philadelphia Union).

[sana]

I would say I'm a casual fan who watches any league he can but with no horse in the race, so to speak. I'm also very disappointed that my country's team did not qualify for the Olympics. :smallfrown:

Wait, National Football teams could qualify for the Olympics? I thought that was only for female Football...

Oh wait, the players have to be under the age of 23 so it's like the U21 world cup, that no one watches.

[Aedilred]

The qualification criteria are a bit weird. Brazil fielded Ronaldinho in 2008, who was neither U-23 nor a World Cup non-participant. I think you're allowed a limited number (three?) over-23s in order to give the game a bit more star quality. It's not really a rival to the World Cup, but this is deliberately so and for political reasons. Also, England (and the other home nations) don't compete and haven't since the Olympics started admitting professionals. This is also for political reasons, although there's been talk of getting a Britain team together for 2012. This is less significant than the British media like to make it out to be, because England have neither won nor been among the serious favourites for any international competition for at least twenty years.

No, the Tournoi de France doesn't count.

The Olympic football competition used to be serious business before the World Cup began (and for a while afterwards, before European FAs started taking the World Cup seriously). This is why Uruguay wear four stars on their shirts rather than two.

[Klose_the_Sith]

<snip>

No fair! You haven't supplied me a team to insult back! (Except Germany, who I love as well and they aren't in the Bundesliga)

Also I'm not brave enough to wield my pidgin German to someone actually from there :smallredface:

I choose instead to rest calmly in my Oma's fierce insistence that Osnabruck is better than where any other German is from. NO MATTER WHAT :smalltongue:

[ForzaFiori]

Oohhh.. i was missing this thread!

Yep, once (20 years ago) I was massively into football. And by "massively" I mean I was an ultras (hooligan, if you prefere). It lasted quickly... It was good 'til the singing part at the stadium and the verbal insults, but I'm not a violent guy, so I abandoned them.


My italian professor was telling stories about the Ultras in class (somehow we were discussing soccer fans instead of italian, though the subjects are closely related). Though she claimed that even Ultras don't hold a candle to English and Dutch hooligans in terms of the riots and violence they cause. Kinda made me stop wanting to visit England and the Neatherlands... Almost afraid i'd visit on a game day or something.

[Killer Angel]

My italian professor was telling stories about the Ultras in class (somehow we were discussing soccer fans instead of italian, though the subjects are closely related). Though she claimed that even Ultras don't hold a candle to English and Dutch hooligans in terms of the riots and violence they cause.

I could say he was probably right.
Anyway, it's a kind of race I don't wanna win... :smallwink:

[dehro]

d'oh... I was entirely unaware that dutch hooligans had such a reputation... which is odd, seeing as I was born there..
In my defense, I moved away real young..
yeah..italian ultras are not exactly paragons of virtue either.. if I had it my way, they'd be greeted by salvos of rubber bullets in the legs just for turning up at the stadiums.. until they showed they'd learned the lesson and calmed down.

[Aedilred]

My italian professor was telling stories about the Ultras in class (somehow we were discussing soccer fans instead of italian, though the subjects are closely related). Though she claimed that even Ultras don't hold a candle to English and Dutch hooligans in terms of the riots and violence they cause. Kinda made me stop wanting to visit England and the Neatherlands... Almost afraid i'd visit on a game day or something.
It's a lot better than it used to be. The last outbreak of serious hooliganism from English fans was probably in 2000 and since then the government has clamped down heavily on them to stop them from travelling.

You get the odd scrap between fans but that tends to be limited to certain clubs. If you steer clear of the Millwall-West Ham derby you'll probably be fine.

[Killer Angel]

It's a lot better than it used to be. The last outbreak of serious hooliganism from English fans was probably in 2000 and since then the government has clamped down heavily on them to stop them from travelling.

You get the odd scrap between fans but that tends to be limited to certain clubs. If you steer clear of the Millwall-West Ham derby you'll probably be fine.

AH, Millwall...
It's not a case, I think, that "The Football Factory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Football_Factory_(film))" includes a Millwall's Firm.
BTW, the movie (wholly available on youtube) is considered one of the most accurate film on hooligans' violence.

[Kobold-Bard]

Nah, Liverpool's finish is perfect. *totally doesn't support a certain blue team*

http://static.tsrfiles.co.uk/images/smilies/unimpressed.gif

This year the whole Liverpool "win against the big teams but lose to the minnows" thing went from kind of funny, to irritating, to infuriating, to just plain sad. The entire season was pretty much a cluster****.

[Raistlin1040]

Word. And now we don't have Dalglish anymore, and I'm wary of our options.

Roberto Martinez: Is an overachieving manager at a crappy club. Very much like Hodgson and that didn't work out for us.
Brenden Rogers: Kind of like Martinez, albeit with a better club but worse himself.
Rafa: While I love Rafa and what he did for the club, I'm not sure I want to step back again. I also don't think some of our good prospects who have hit form recently (Carroll, Henderson) would make it in Rafa's team.
Andre Villas-Boas: Most likely choice. I think his style is similar to Kenny's, lots of possession, attacking style, but he is super divisive. Did he crash at Chelsea because he was bad or because Lampard/Drogba/Terry/Cole believe they run the club? Did he win at Porto because he was good or because the Portuguese League is basically a two-horse race?

[Morph Bark]

My italian professor was telling stories about the Ultras in class (somehow we were discussing soccer fans instead of italian, though the subjects are closely related). Though she claimed that even Ultras don't hold a candle to English and Dutch hooligans in terms of the riots and violence they cause. Kinda made me stop wanting to visit England and the Netherlands... Almost afraid i'd visit on a game day or something.

FTFY. :smallwink:

And to be fair, I've been close to a riot only once in the Netherlands, and that was during student protests last year in the Hague. Soccer riots can be really bad, but they are fairly rare and only really happen in Amsterdam and Rotterdam, the two biggest cities and home to two of the "Big Three" teams (Ajax in Amsterdam, Feyenoord in Rotterdam), the third (PSV) being in Eindhoven (which is the fifth biggest city).

I have to agree the worst soccer riots I've heard of were in England though, but I think those are mainly limited to Manchester and Liverpool. From what I heard in Scotland, Glasgow also can be a non-nice place, but mostly against people from Edinburgh. It all depends on context and where you go.

I haven't really heard of Italians being big on soccer though! I always thought it was mostly Spain and Portugal, with sometimes Greece too. And of course their former colonies, which are huge in soccer.

[Killer Angel]

This year the whole Liverpool "win against the big teams but lose to the minnows" thing went from kind of funny, to irritating, to infuriating, to just plain sad. The entire season was pretty much a cluster****.

Liverpool is one of my favourite england teams. After all, they won 2 champions league at penalties, against Rome and Milan. :smallbiggrin:

The other two, are Arsenal (Nick Hornby, I blame you for this!) and Manchester Utd.

[Aedilred]

I haven't really heard of Italians being big on soccer though! I always thought it was mostly Spain and Portugal, with sometimes Greece too. And of course their former colonies, which are huge in soccer.
Italy is one of football's historic superpowers. They've won more world cups than anybody except Brazil, and are also the only team other than Brazil to defend a WC title successfully.

Italian club teams have also been very successful in the European Cup/Champions' League.

It's big news across Europe, really.

[GolemsVoice]

Ayup. European football nations are England, Germany and Italy, I'd say. Spain, maybe too.

[dehro]

I haven't really heard of Italians being big on soccer though! I always thought it was mostly Spain and Portugal, with sometimes Greece too. And of course their former colonies, which are huge in soccer.

that surprises me, since most Dutch players of any international repute have, at one stage or another, played in Italy's top teams (and won champions leagues whilst doing so).. Van Basten, Van der Sar, Seedorf, Bergkamp, Davids, Sneijder, De Boer, Van Bommel..really..the list is too long.

also, several of the world's most titled clubs are in Italy.

also,... "spain maybe too" seems ungenerous..they're ruling world champions and at least 2-3 of their clubs are amongst the best in the world.

[Raistlin1040]

According to UEFA, the top 5 leagues in the world are (in order)

England
Spain
Germany
Italy
Portugal

[dehro]

According to UEFA, the top 5 leagues in the world are (in order)

England
Spain
Germany
Italy
Portugal

england at the top?:smallamused:*snigger*

[Dr. Gamera]

Ah, "soccer". Like "aluminum", a word invented in England that the English make fun of Americans for using.

I most closely follow soccer played by national teams, especially the USA. Can't fit much time for club soccer fandom in my life right now.

[Aedilred]

england at the top?:smallamused:*snigger*
Well, that's the quality of the top-flight national league, not the international team, so it's not quite as ridiculous as it might be. I'd still be inclined to rate La Liga higher than the EPL, though. They may not have got any teams to the final of the Champions' League, but they had two of the semifinalists, and they've completely owned the Europa League this season. Meanwhile the top EPL teams have all gone backwards: Man City and Tottenham have improved but Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and, probably, Everton are all weaker than they were five years ago or so. The ranking systems can throw up funny results at times.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Well, that's the quality of the top-flight national league, not the international team, so it's not quite as ridiculous as it might be. I'd still be inclined to rate La Liga higher than the EPL, though. They may not have got any teams to the final of the Champions' League, but they had two of the semifinalists, and they've completely owned the Europa League this season. Meanwhile the top EPL teams have all gone backwards: Man City and Tottenham have improved but Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and, probably, Everton are all weaker than they were five years ago or so. The ranking systems can throw up funny results at times.

If you rate it on overall quality of teams and players, as well as ticket prices and game attendance the EPL isn't doing too well at all ...

[Crow]

I love playing soccer, and would like to actually get into following a team, but darnit there are just so many leagues, I don't know where to start to just find a team I like and start watching their games.

I'm in the US, so we have the MLS, but I don't know what it is, I just can't bring myself to pay much attention to it (much like the rest of the nation!).

[ForzaFiori]

I'm in the US, so we have the MLS, but I don't know what it is, I just can't bring myself to pay much attention to it (much like the rest of the nation!).

I would suggest just skipping trying to get into MLS and just go straight to watching European soccer (MLS tries, it really does, but it's like watching European league american football), but it's hard to find them on TV in America.

You could try to find your college of choice on TV. If it's a major university, it might get on TV some, or you could go to the games in person if it's close (they're rarely anywhere near as expensive as a football game).

[Raistlin1040]

Well, that's the quality of the top-flight national league, not the international team, so it's not quite as ridiculous as it might be. I'd still be inclined to rate La Liga higher than the EPL, though. They may not have got any teams to the final of the Champions' League, but they had two of the semifinalists, and they've completely owned the Europa League this season. Meanwhile the top EPL teams have all gone backwards: Man City and Tottenham have improved but Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and, probably, Everton are all weaker than they were five years ago or so. The ranking systems can throw up funny results at times.La Liga is a 2-horse race. It's not a competetive league at all. Sure, Barcalona and Real Madrid are up there with Manchester City and Manchester United, and yeah, Bilbao crushed United in Europa, but Valencia is the only other team in Spain that I'd say really has a chance to continually compete with teams like Tottenham, Arsenal, and Chelsea. Even given the poor performance of Liverpool this season, there were 6 teams fighting for the title at various points and all of them were extremely good. Luck would always be a factor, but I think Arsenal, Tottenham, Newcastle, and Chelsea would beat Valencia, Malaga, Atletico Madrid and Levante far more often than the reverse.

Germany is the same way. Dortmund and Bayern Munich are among the best teams in the world, but they have no one else that can really compete. That's why I think the Premier League is the best. Sure, the title always turns into a 2-team race at the end, but those can be two of any six or seven teams.

That's actually why I love the MLS so much. Sure, there are a few teams (Sounders, Galaxy, Red Bulls) who are usually pretty good, but every year there are a lot of changes in the table. Toronto, Philadelphia, and Portland were all decent last year. This year, they're awful. Last year, Vancouver was terrible, this year, they're pretty good. Salt Lake and Kansas City came out of nowhere to be outstanding. There's a lot of movement in the table over a few years and it prevents huge dynasties that you see in countries like Portugal, Spain, Netherlands, and Germany. I have to hand it to France as well, which gets a lot of flak for not being exciting enough. No matter who wins the title this year (PSG or Montpellier), there will have been 5 different champions in the last 5 years.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Germany is the same way. Dortmund and Bayern Munich are among the best teams in the world, but they have no one else that can really compete. That's why I think the Premier League is the best. Sure, the title always turns into a 2-team race at the end, but those can be two of any six or seven teams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Bundesliga#Champions

Sure there's Bayern Munich as the top dog, but where on earth did you get the rest of that from? :smallconfused:

[Morph Bark]

that surprises me, since most Dutch players of any international repute have, at one stage or another, played in Italy's top teams (and won champions leagues whilst doing so).. Van Basten, Van der Sar, Seedorf, Bergkamp, Davids, Sneijder, De Boer, Van Bommel..really..the list is too long.

also, several of the world's most titled clubs are in Italy.

also,... "spain maybe too" seems ungenerous..they're ruling world champions and at least 2-3 of their clubs are amongst the best in the world.

Eh, as soon as a Dutch player leaves the country I stop paying attention to them. :smalltongue:

I didn't know so many went to Italy, really. England, definitely. A lot to Spain as well. Italy is just one of those countries that doesn't register on my radar unless it's about ancient history or food.

[Cicciograna]

Here I am! I am a huge supporter of my local team, S.S.C. Napoli (as you can see from my avatar).

This year we had a...mediocre season. We managed to end on 5th place, whereas last year we ended up 3rd and thus in Champions League: we arrived 2nd in our group, right after Bayern Moenchen and before Manchester City (haha!) and Villarreal, but made a poor figure against Chelsea, beating them 3-1 at home but losing badly 1-4 on their field.
Those where the only two matches we lost in th competition, and given that Bayern and Chelsea are the finalists we can at least console thinking that we lost against the two best teams of the tournament :smallbiggrin:

This summer we are expecting to sell one of our best players, Ezequiel "Pocho" Lavezzi, probabily to Inter or Paris Saint Germain: let's hope he'll be replaced with another great player! Hopefully we'll be able to keep our top scorer Cavani, whereas Hamsik just renewed his contract.
The best money, however, has to be put into the defense: our defenders aren't good, with an aging Aronica and a bad condition Campagnaro and Cannavaro which fared poorly this year. I'd really love to see Sakho from PSG in my team: who knows, maybe if we sell Lavezzi to PSG they'll give us a discount...

[Aedilred]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu%C3%9Fball-Bundesliga#Champions

Sure there's Bayern Munich as the top dog, but where on earth did you get the rest of that from? :smallconfused:
Raistlin has a point. The domestic title might be competitive but German teams haven't been all that successful at European level of late. The last time a German team other than Munich reached the CL final was Leverkusen in 2002, and that was considered an upset at the time. Over the last five years only one non-Munich German team has made it even to the quarter-finals (Schalke).

The competitiveness of the national league doesn't necessarily translate to success at the European level. The recent competition in England between teams for the title probably indicates a decline of the top teams (only the most blinkered of fans would deny that these United and Chelsea teams are pretty weak by recent standards) rather than an improvement of the mid-table teams.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Raistlin has a point. The domestic title might be competitive but German teams haven't been all that successful at European level of late. The last time a German team other than Munich reached the CL final was Leverkusen in 2002, and that was considered an upset at the time. Over the last five years only one non-Munich German team has made it even to the quarter-finals (Schalke).

The competitiveness of the national league doesn't necessarily translate to success at the European level. The recent competition in England between teams for the title probably indicates a decline of the top teams (only the most blinkered of fans would deny that these United and Chelsea teams are pretty weak by recent standards) rather than an improvement of the mid-table teams.

Which is great and all (except for me not giving as much as half a fig about the European Championship because to me it's more than boring) but Raistlins post in particular was about competitiveness in Leagues translating to a generator of interest. Unless if I've completely misread it, which on re-reading it I don't think I have.

Seriously though, the European Championship can go and sit in the corner. Couldn't care less about it if it were Eurovision.

[Killer Angel]

Here I am! I am a huge supporter of my local team, S.S.C. Napoli (as you can see from my avatar).


Be careful tomorrow evening! :smallsmile:

[Cicciograna]

Be careful tomorrow evening! :smallsmile:

Honestly I don't expect a good performance on behalf of my team: quite frankly I'm already accustomed to the idea that juventus will crush us again as it happened during the last match.
But who knows? Maybe we'll avenge Turin's 3-0.

[Raistlin1040]

Klose, I'll defer to your native Germanness (I assume given the Klose part), but I still don't find it as competitive. Yes, teams like Stuttgart and Wolfsburg have some titles, but Bayern is ridiculous overpowering and I just dont see a solid group of challengers. I said Dortmund because I've only been paying attention to the German league for a few years and Dortmund has been the best other team for the past few. To me, bringing up a few titles from Werder Bremen or Wolfsburg is like trying to prove competition in England by mentioning that Nottingham Forest and Derby County were good in the 70s. It isn't as flat a league as Spain, but I dont feel like it's as competitive as England.

[darthpower]

from time to time I fallow the game

[Klose_the_Sith]

Klose, I'll defer to your native Germanness (I assume given the Klose part)

Mmmm, potato dumplings/my favourite German striker :smallbiggrin:

(I'm Australian by law, but ethnically German)

At any rate, the league may not have *as* many competitive teams as you'd like, but I stand firmly by the need to demonstrate that it isn't a two horse race.

[Killer Angel]

Anyway, today we all bow to Chelsea, "Pride of London". :smallwink:

[Cicciograna]

And thus yesterday evening, against all the odds, Napoli won the Coppa Italia, the Italian Cup, beating juventus for 2 to 0. The ensuing feast was long and merry, with partying supporters pouring in the streets of the city.

Luckily, no accidents, no injuries, just a great celebration.

[dehro]

Luckily, no accidents, no injuries, just a great celebration.

that's quite something..given what happens on newyears eve, almost every year..
yay for you guys:smallsmile:

[Killer Angel]

And after Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern, another defeat for the favorite team... the current trend has been confirmed. :smalltongue: