UPDATED: Grenadier (3.5 Base Class) PEACH!

[demonickin0]

This is a project is something that came to mind while I was watching pirates of the Caribbean when this pirate in red runs around throwing bombs and it just looks like a grand ol’ time.

http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/npswapa/extContent/usmc/pcn-190-003131-00/pcn-190-003131-00/images/fig39.jpg


Grenadier (Ranged Demoliton) (3.5 Class)

Abilities: Intellegence, Wisdom, Dex.
Races: Any Race may become a grenadier, but usually Dwarves and Humans are preferred.
Alignment: Any
Starting Gold: 2d4×10 gp (40g)
Starting Age: Usually Simple or older.
Hit Die: d10

Grenadier
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2| Elbow Grease, Bombardier, Point Blank Shot

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Quick Draw

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+1|
+3| Trap Sense +1.

4th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4| Twin Bomber.

5th|
+3|
+4|
+1|
+4| Volley of Bombs

6th|
+4|
+5|
+2|
+5|Trap Sense +2

7th|
+5|
+5|
+2|
+5| Bombardment

8th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+2|
+6| Weak Spot

9th|
+7/+2|
+7|
+3|
+7| Trap Sense +3

10th|
+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+8| Clever Ricochet[/table]


The Grenadier’s class skills are Appraise (INT), Concentration, Craft (Explosives) (INT), Decipher Script (INT), Disable Device (INT), Gather Information (CHA), Intimidate (CHA), Knowledge (Arcana) (INT), Knowledge (Explosives) (INT) Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) (INT), Profession (WIS), Search (INT), Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4+ Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features:

Weapons and Armor Proficiency: A grenadier is proficient in simple, and martial weapons. Proficient in armors up to heavy.

Elbow Grease: The Grenadier gains a +2 bonus to all Craft checks. This bonus raises to +4 at 6th level, and +6 at 10th level.

Point Blank Shot: The Grenadier gains the Point Blank Shot Feat.

Bombardier: A 2nd level Grenadier has a knack for throwing explosive. This feat gives you an exotic weapon proficiency that allows you to throw small sized or smaller explosives as a ranged touch attacks.

Quick Draw: At 2nd level a Grenadier gains the Quick Draw feat.

Trap Sense (Ex):
At 3rd level, a Grenadier gains an intuitive sense that alerts him to danger from traps, giving him a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 when the Grenadier reaches 6th level, to +3 when he reaches 9th level, to +4 when he reaches 12th level, to +5 at 15th, and to +6 at 18th level.
Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.

Twin Bomber (Ex): This feature gives a 4th level Grenadier, when throwing small sized or smaller explosive, this ability, allows you to throw an additional small sized or smaller sized explosive per attack roll.

Volley of Bombs: This feature gives a 5th level Grenadier, when throwing small sized or smaller sized explosives add 2x your dexterity modifier to your damage rolls.

Bombardment: A 7th level Grenadier has a knack for throwing huge amounts of bombs. Take a -4 to all your attack rolls you make double the number of attacks you can make during a around while throwing small sized or smaller sized explosives.

Weak Spot (Ex): A Grenadier can gain this ability only after reaching 8th level. When using a thrown weapon against a target of her size or larger, the character can make a ranged touch attack instead of a normal attack. If the attack hits, the Grenadier does not apply his Strength bonus to the damage.

Clever Ricochet (Sp): At 10th level a Grenadier gains the Clever Ricochet feat.

[zegram 33]

first off, loving the yukimura and masamune picture you have there.

secondly...i may be missing something, but you havnt listed any requirements for this to be a PrC, so i assume its a base class...but it only has ten levels.
is there any reason for this?

weak spot isnt explained and produce flame seems to have been cut off halfway through

[demonickin0]

Thanks for the catch I will fix that immediately, it is a base class, I just wanted it 10 levels because in the first 10 it gets it's point across without making up unreasonable abilities for it. If you have ideas for increasing it's level system them feel free to PM me, I'm very eager to hear your ideas.

[demonickin0]

Any Feedback Anyone? I'd Appreciate It.

[bobthe6th]

were could one find stats for the explosives?

[demonickin0]

were could one find stats for the explosives?

Good question. Most of the explosive can be found on the d&d wiki

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Explosives_and_Splash_Weapons

[zegram 33]

i'll be honest... it looks like you could just port over explosives, the demolitions skill, andthe craft: chemical skill from that ruleset and be done

[bobthe6th]

I would point out that those all look like D20 modern... might want to make iron age versions for 3.5

[demonickin0]

i'll be honest... it looks like you could just port over explosives, the demolitions skill, andthe craft: chemical skill from that ruleset and be done

Basically, whatever works best for the DM.


I would point out that those all look like D20 modern... might want to make iron age versions for 3.5

There is little to no difference between the two and because of that, that doesn't bother me. I have poored over the differences between the two and from what I gather the damage die are the same so no worries

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'm not necessarily opposed to a 10-level base class as a concept, but it is... highly irregular. If you can't think of enough abilities for the latter levels, it may be better off as a PrC.


The Grenadier’s class skills are Appraise (INT), Concentration, Craft (Explosives) (INT), Decipher Script (INT), Disable Device (INT), Gather Information (CHA), Intimidate (CHA), Knowledge (Arcana) (INT), Knowledge (Explosives) (INT) Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) (INT), Profession (WIS), Search (INT), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (CHA).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4+ Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.
A nice big list, alright. I'm not sure why some of the skills are there, though-- Decipher Script? Knowledge (Arcana)? UMD?




Class Features:Weapons and Armor Proficiency: A grenadier is proficient in simple, and martial weapons. Proficient in armors up to heavy.
You might want to copy the "official" wording here-- "A grenadier is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light), but not with shields."


Elbow Grease: The Grenadier gains a +2 bonus to all Craft checks. This bonus raises to +4 at 6th level, and +6 at 10th level.
Fine, although it might be more fun to make it scale with level-- adding 2/3 your Grenadier level works out about the same math-wise, but the bonus goes up more often.


Bombardier: A 2nd level Grenadier has a knack for throwing explosive. This feat gives you an exotic weapon proficiency that allows you to throw small sized explosives as a ranged touch attacks.
Is this a feat or a class ability? Either way, "small sized explosives" is a strange, unofficial category. If you mean things like alchemist's fire, it's already a ranged touch attack. The ability might be better off boosting the range increment.


Quick Draw: At 2nd level a Grenadier gains the Quick Draw feat.
Useful.


Trap Sense (Ex):
At 3rd level, a Grenadier gains an intuitive sense that alerts him to danger from traps, giving him a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 when the Grenadier reaches 6th level, to +3 when he reaches 9th level, to +4 when he reaches 12th level, to +5 at 15th, and to +6 at 18th level.
Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.
OK. If you want him to be a trapmonkey, you should probably give him the Trapfinding ability at first level.


Twin Bomber (Ex): This feature gives a 4th level Grenadier, when throwing palm sized explosive, this ability, allows you to throw an additional palm sized explosive per attack roll.
What is a "palm sized explosive?" I mean, the description is clear, yes, but 3.5 D&D is a [I]very rules-heavy game, and things generally need to be spelled out explicitly.


Volley of Bombs: This feature gives a 7th level Grenadier, when throwing palm sized explosives add 2x your dexterity modifier to your damage rolls.
See earlier point about explicitness; otherwise, a nice ability.


Weak Spot (Ex): A Grenadier can gain this ability only after reaching 8th level. When using a thrown weapon against a target of her size or larger, the character can make a ranged touch attack instead of a normal attack. If the attack hits, the master thrower does not apply his Strength bonus to the damage.
You already granted this ability in Bombardier.


Produce Flame (Sp): A 10th level Grenadier may cast produce Flame as a spell-like ability at will.
...aaaand, suddenly we get magic? I'm not sure why you give this. I guess the spell is sort of like throwing a bomb? I'd recommend against if, if for no other reason than that it's a pretty crappy spell at first level, much less tenth.


Good question. Most of the explosive can be found on the d&d wiki

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Ex...Splash_Weapons
The D&D Wiki is not an official source, and D20 Modern is not generally compatible with D&D. The rules, maybe, but the setting, not so much. If you want to use these rules, you should make that clear in the class. I recommend against it, though-- nothing breaks immersion like pulling out modern technology in a swords-and-sorcery world. Heck, C4 would be just as out-of-place in a Pirates of the Caribbean setting as in a dungeon crawl.

General Thoughts
I like the idea, but the execution is, sorry to say, a bit wobbly. I'm sure it makes sense to you, but D&D is a system that really needs things to be spelled out.
My recommendation for this class? Borrow a page from the Warlock. Craft bombs that deal 1/2-2/3 your class level damage, then throw them around. Learn new "Recipes" to make your bombs do different things-- produce smoke clouds, affect an area, deal fire damage, be remotely detonated, and so on. At later levels, you can get near-supernatural effects, like bombs that inflict negative levels and so on. It would add variety, and wouldn't require you to brew up a whole new set of rules for fantasy explosives.

[demonickin0]

General Thoughts
I like the idea, but the execution is, sorry to say, a bit wobbly. I'm sure it makes sense to you, but D&D is a system that really needs things to be spelled out.
My recommendation for this class? Borrow a page from the Warlock. Craft bombs that deal 1/2-2/3 your class level damage, then throw them around. Learn new "Recipes" to make your bombs do different things-- produce smoke clouds, affect an area, deal fire damage, be remotely detonated, and so on. At later levels, you can get near-supernatural effects, like bombs that inflict negative levels and so on. It would add variety, and wouldn't require you to brew up a whole new set of rules for fantasy explosives.

Very fair points all in all, I will take great head to them. I am replying at the early hours of the morning so I won't fix the class till tomorrow night probably, but that you very much for the feedback, constructive and to the point

[demonickin0]

LOOKING FOR SOME MORE PEACH! Just edited it hardcore so any more help would be fantastic!

[zegram 33]

Weak Spot (Ex): A Grenadier can gain this ability only after reaching 8th level. When using a thrown weapon against a target of her size or larger, the character can make a ranged touch attack instead of a normal attack. If the attack hits, the master thrower does not apply his Strength bonus to the damage
i dont really get what this does. is "the master thrower" an old name for this class or something? if so, it allows you a more accurate strike at the expense of damage?

I also agree with Grod's ideas about crafting your own bombs.
i think a happy medium might be the best option?
say...lift the actual explosive rules from D20 modern, since they're pretty awesome. but rather than useing their weapons per ce, use there grenae template as your "base" bomb template then adding more effects as he stated. maybe some kind of fluff rule that you can craft a longer fuse to delay the explosion by up to 10 mins/level or something? lift there rules about placed explosives doing greater structural damge etc?

as for produce flame...i'm assuming it was intended so you'd always have a way to light your bombs fuses?