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Noctis Vigil
2012-05-12, 05:17 PM
The idea for micro templates is that you can only take one, ever. They're a little like traits and flaws, you take them and get a bonus in one stat and a penalty in one or two others.

LA+0:

Strong:
Str +2, Int-2

Geek:
Con -2, Int +2

Wise:
Wis +2, Cha -2

Quick:
Str -2, Dex +2

Charismatic:
Int -2, Cha +2

Sturdy:
Con +2, Int -2

LA+1:

Musclebound:
Str +4, Dex -2, Int -2

Studious:
Str -2, Con -2, Int +4

Sage:
Con -2, Wis +4, Cha -2

Fast:
Str -2, Dex +4, Cha -2

Zealous:
Int -2, Wis -2, Cha +4

Tough:
Con +4, Int -2, Cha -2

Anyone have suggestions for others? Shout 'em out, I'll add 'em to the list. I intend to make more to give people a variety to choose from.

Lateral
2012-05-12, 05:46 PM
They're... very powerful. Simply having a net +0 stat modifier doesn't make something like this balanced- you basically get to pick-and-choose. For instance, no non-gish wizard is ever going to not take Smart, and if you're a sorcerer Zealous is a no-brainer.

Morph Bark
2012-05-12, 05:49 PM
Hello, Tough Dragonborn Arctic Mongrelfolk!

Lateral
2012-05-12, 06:18 PM
Hello, Tough Dragonborn Arctic Mongrelfolk!

Pssh, real men use Tough Warforged Incarnate Construct Lolth-Touched Mineral Warriors! Mental scores? What are those? :smalltongue:

...+16 CON, +8 STR, -4 INT, -4 WIS, -6 CHA. Must play this character.

Noctis Vigil
2012-05-12, 07:06 PM
Made a few changes. The second rank that gives +4 to one stat is now +1LA, and Smart is now Geek, with -2 Con instead of -2 Str.

Starbuck_II
2012-05-12, 09:11 PM
So almost everyone take Wis then? Because really who needs Cha (unless Bard, Pal, Sorc, and tiny bit Cleric, but Cleric don't need much so they can take it). :smalltongue:

Xechon
2012-05-12, 10:18 PM
Divines or nature freaks take wis, otherwise it's dump.

Also, it's not 3.5, but very close. Do you know of the d20 modern (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Modern_System_Reference_Document) base classes?

Amechra
2012-05-13, 10:23 AM
It would be kinda neat if there were some that, instead of giving a bonus to an ability score, instead gave a feat for free.

So there could be one called Finesse that gave you Weapon Finesse and a -2 to Strength.

The above was probably rather off the point, though.

JoshuaZ
2012-05-13, 10:48 AM
There are still too many ways to make scores not matter. If for example a wizard takes Geek and then after that applies the necropolitan template then the penalty in Geek won't matter at all. The LA+1 templates look a bit more balanced. In general, LA 0 templates will almost always have issues. One thing to do for the LA zero templates that might help balance them is to also give aside from ability score penalties additional penalties to skill checks. So for example, if Geek was -2 Con, +2 int, and gave a -1 penalty to all con or strength based skill checks, that might be more balanced. But even then, a wizard planning to become undead would still see that as good deal.

Noctis Vigil
2012-05-14, 01:08 AM
Divines or nature freaks take wis, otherwise it's dump.

Also, it's not 3.5, but very close. Do you know of the d20 modern (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Modern_System_Reference_Document) base classes?

I do not know the system, no. Why do you ask?


It would be kinda neat if there were some that, instead of giving a bonus to an ability score, instead gave a feat for free.

So there could be one called Finesse that gave you Weapon Finesse and a -2 to Strength.

The above was probably rather off the point, though.

Actually, that's a pretty cool idea, let me put some thought into it.

Xechon
2012-05-14, 06:49 AM
The base classes are built around an ability score. They could help you with more ideas if you plan on making them templates, as these right now are just "traits" like presented in UA (although thankfully more powerful. Traits have always been lacking in power)

Tyndmyr
2012-05-14, 06:57 AM
The +1 LA seems pretty harsh. Honestly, I can't see anyone using them when they could get half the benefit at no cost.

Noctis Vigil
2012-05-14, 12:37 PM
@Xechon: That was the general goal was to make them like traits only useful, so I'm glad you like them. :smallsmile:


The +1 LA seems pretty harsh. Honestly, I can't see anyone using them when they could get half the benefit at no cost.

So don't apply LA on them. I personally don't think it deserves it, but it was deemed to powerful by the others here. I'm currently playtesting the power of them if you use them without LA, and it most definitely doesn't seem gamebreaking, but it's only level 3 so far. Updates will be posted periodically.

reddir
2012-05-14, 12:49 PM
Anyone have suggestions for others? Shout 'em out, I'll add 'em to the list. I intend to make more to give people a variety to choose from.

How about +Cha, traded for -Str and -Int.
I'm thinking socialite here.

Tyndmyr
2012-05-14, 12:51 PM
So don't apply LA on them. I personally don't think it deserves it, but it was deemed to powerful by the others here. I'm currently playtesting the power of them if you use them without LA, and it most definitely doesn't seem gamebreaking, but it's only level 3 so far. Updates will be posted periodically.

They're distinctly more powerful than the ones listed as LA0, though. So, either way, only one set gets used. If you enforce LA, you can expect everyone to take an LA0 option. If not, everyone takes one of the better list.

I mean, Studious crushes Geek.

Noctis Vigil
2012-05-14, 01:19 PM
They're distinctly more powerful than the ones listed as LA0, though. So, either way, only one set gets used. If you enforce LA, you can expect everyone to take an LA0 option. If not, everyone takes one of the better list.

I mean, Studious crushes Geek.

I don't really know how other groups handle LA, but in my group ECL is always a fixed number. I suppose in groups with different starting levels allowed it could be different. I also allow LA buyoff in my group, which changes the way you treat LA entirely. Lastly, I enforce backstory on characters, so your backstory has you as a super studious person and you choose Tough, there's gonna be some reckoning.

Really, use these as you want. My goal is just to give people more options. Another possible option for these: only allow them on humans or those with human blood (IE: finally a way to make half elves not totally suck :smalltongue: ).